Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Does anyone how this would effect hydrogen in Mr. Bush's FreedomCAR program? Steve Spence wrote: Hydrogen isn't, and won't be anything that will help us save our Earth. SNIP That's the whole point these folks are missing. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it shouldn't be done, since they are throwing away a majority of the energy they are producing, and renewables are typically much higher priced, so you want to be as stingy as possible. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Hey man If you can get it to work Then you will be Okay! I would not worry about Mr. Bush anyway! Jonathan MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone how this would effect hydrogen in Mr. Bush's FreedomCAR program? Steve Spence wrote: Hydrogen isn't, and won't be anything that will help us save our Earth. That's the whole point these folks are missing. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it shouldn't be done, since they are throwing away a majority of the energy they are producing, and renewables are typically much higher priced, so you want to be as stingy as possible. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Government Hydrogen programs are designed to keep oil companies happy, since that is the source of all commercial hydrogen. Anything can look economical if enough tax subsidies are thrown at it. Business as usual. Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org - Original Message - From: Jonathan Dunlap [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen Hey man If you can get it to work Then you will be Okay! I would not worry about Mr. Bush anyway! Jonathan MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone how this would effect hydrogen in Mr. Bush's FreedomCAR program? Steve Spence wrote: Hydrogen isn't, and won't be anything that will help us save our Earth. That's the whole point these folks are missing. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it shouldn't be done, since they are throwing away a majority of the energy they are producing, and renewables are typically much higher priced, so you want to be as stingy as possible. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. Although the truck performs as planned, it's more of a demonstration project than a practical vehicle. The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles. But that was expected, Waxman said, and the students have a motto that underlines the pioneering nature of the project: How far did the first airplane fly? When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. The truck also can be shifted to conventional power using a dashboard switch, which changes the fuel system over to a gasoline tank and fuel-injection. The students in the Environmental Technology Club who built the hydrogen truck recognize its experimental nature. We want to inform the public that there are different alternative fuels and what can be accomplished, said Nicolas Paredes, a 17-year-old senior. Most of the club members are new this year, the previous years' members having graduated. Nine students attended a recent after-school meeting to access the condition of the hydrogen truck, which was parked all summer and requires some repair, and make plans to advance the project. During the meeting, Waxman said the group plans to make improvements to the existing solar-hydrogen truck plus tackle a new project: a self-sustaining solar-hydrogen vehicle that uses fuel cells to power an electric drive system. The main challenge of building the solar-hydrogen truck was research, with much of the hydrogen-generating system designed by trial and error, Waxman said. The problem is there's no manual that says how to do this, the 39-year-old teacher said. We had to investigate how to make hydrogen for this. Last spring, the project won a first prize and grand prize at the Central Arizona Regional Science and Engineering Fair and was a finalist in May at the International Science and Engineering Fair in Portland, Ore. Graduating senior Soroush Farzin, a leader in the project, entered it in the fairs. Much of the solar-hydrogen truck project was completed through private donations and volunteer labor, including solar panels donated by Beaulieu. Mechanical work and technical assistance was provided by Kevin Fern of AFVTech, which stands for Alternative Fuel Vehicle Technology. Waxman and Fern gave a tour of the vehicle, showing how the solar panels create energy for the six electrolysis units mounted in a complex-looking maze of tubes and wires that make up the solar-hydrogen production unit. From there, the hydrogen is filtered for impurities and stored in two large air tanks. The hydrogen is fed into the engine using stainless-steel lines, a pressure regulator and fuel injectors similar to what might be found in a vehicle powered by propane or natural gas. An electronic control unit had to be specially tuned so that the four-cylinder engine could use the hydrogen efficiently. It's really a simple process, Fern said of the engine conversion. The programming (of the electronic control unit) was the only difficulty. Beyond learning about solar energy and
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. Although the truck performs as planned, it's more of a demonstration project than a practical vehicle. The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles. But that was expected, Waxman said, and the students have a motto that underlines the pioneering nature of the project: How far did the first airplane fly? When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. The truck also can be shifted to conventional power using a dashboard switch, which changes the fuel system over to a gasoline tank and fuel-injection. The students in the Environmental Technology Club who built the hydrogen truck recognize its experimental nature. We want to inform the public that there are different alternative fuels and what can be accomplished, said Nicolas Paredes, a 17-year-old senior. Most of the club members are new this year, the previous years' members having graduated. Nine students attended a recent after-school meeting to access the condition of the hydrogen truck, which was parked all summer and requires some repair, and make plans to advance the project. During the meeting, Waxman said the group plans to make improvements to the existing solar-hydrogen truck plus tackle a new project: a self-sustaining solar-hydrogen vehicle that uses fuel cells to power an electric drive system. The main challenge of building the solar-hydrogen truck was research, with much of the hydrogen-generating system designed by trial and error, Waxman said. The problem is there's no manual that says how to do this, the 39-year-old teacher said. We had to investigate how to make hydrogen for this. Last spring, the project won a first prize and grand prize at the Central Arizona Regional Science and Engineering Fair and was a finalist in May at the International Science and Engineering Fair in Portland, Ore. Graduating senior Soroush Farzin, a leader in the project, entered it in the fairs. Much of the solar-hydrogen truck project was completed through private donations and volunteer labor, including solar panels donated by Beaulieu. Mechanical work and technical assistance was provided by Kevin Fern of AFVTech, which stands for Alternative Fuel Vehicle Technology. Waxman and Fern gave a tour of the vehicle, showing how the solar panels create energy for the six electrolysis units mounted in a complex-looking maze of tubes and wires that make up the solar-hydrogen production unit. From there, the hydrogen is filtered for impurities
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Thanks for the article! Jonathan MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. Although the truck performs as planned, it's more of a demonstration project than a practical vehicle. The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles. But that was expected, Waxman said, and the students have a motto that underlines the pioneering nature of the project: How far did the first airplane fly? When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. The truck also can be shifted to conventional power using a dashboard switch, which changes the fuel system over to a gasoline tank and fuel-injection. The students in the Environmental Technology Club who built the hydrogen truck recognize its experimental nature. We want to inform the public that there are different alternative fuels and what can be accomplished, said Nicolas Paredes, a 17-year-old senior. Most of the club members are new this year, the previous years' members having graduated. Nine students attended a recent after-school meeting to access the condition of the hydrogen truck, which was parked all summer and requires some repair, and make plans to advance the project. During the meeting, Waxman said the group plans to make improvements to the existing solar-hydrogen truck plus tackle a new project: a self-sustaining solar-hydrogen vehicle that uses fuel cells to power an electric drive system. The main challenge of building the solar-hydrogen truck was research, with much of the hydrogen-generating system designed by trial and error, Waxman said. The problem is there's no manual that says how to do this, the 39-year-old teacher said. We had to investigate how to make hydrogen for this. Last spring, the project won a first prize and grand prize at the Central Arizona Regional Science and Engineering Fair and was a finalist in May at the International Science and Engineering Fair in Portland, Ore. Graduating senior Soroush Farzin, a leader in the project, entered it in the fairs. Much of the solar-hydrogen truck project was completed through private donations and volunteer labor, including solar panels donated by Beaulieu. Mechanical work and technical assistance was provided by Kevin Fern of AFVTech, which stands for Alternative Fuel Vehicle Technology. Waxman and Fern gave a tour of the vehicle, showing how the solar panels create energy for the six electrolysis units mounted in a complex-looking maze of tubes and wires that make up the solar-hydrogen production unit. From there, the hydrogen is filtered for impurities and stored in two large air tanks. The hydrogen is fed into the engine using stainless-steel lines, a pressure regulator and fuel injectors similar to what might be found in a vehicle powered by propane or natural gas. An electronic control unit had to be specially tuned so that the four-cylinder engine could use the hydrogen efficiently. It's really a simple process, Fern said of the engine conversion. The programming (of the electronic control unit) was the only difficulty. Beyond learning about solar energy and hydrogen power, the club
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Good question! That is what they are getting to, I'm sure... Jonathan Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc - Original Message - From: MH To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. Although the truck performs as planned, it's more of a demonstration project than a practical vehicle. The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles. But that was expected, Waxman said, and the students have a motto that underlines the pioneering nature of the project: How far did the first airplane fly? When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. The truck also can be shifted to conventional power using a dashboard switch, which changes the fuel system over to a gasoline tank and fuel-injection. The students in the Environmental Technology Club who built the hydrogen truck recognize its experimental nature. We want to inform the public that there are different alternative fuels and what can be accomplished, said Nicolas Paredes, a 17-year-old senior. Most of the club members are new this year, the previous years' members having graduated. Nine students attended a recent after-school meeting to access the condition of the hydrogen truck, which was parked all summer and requires some repair, and make plans to advance the project. During the meeting, Waxman said the group plans to make improvements to the existing solar-hydrogen truck plus tackle a new project: a self-sustaining solar-hydrogen vehicle that uses fuel cells to power an electric drive system. The main challenge of building the solar-hydrogen truck was research, with much of the hydrogen-generating system designed by trial and error, Waxman said. The problem is there's no manual that says how to do this, the 39-year-old teacher said. We had to investigate how to make hydrogen for this. Last spring, the project won a first prize and grand prize at the Central Arizona Regional Science and Engineering Fair and was a finalist in May at the International Science and Engineering Fair in Portland, Ore. Graduating senior Soroush Farzin, a leader in the project, entered it in the fairs. Much of the solar-hydrogen truck project was completed through private donations and volunteer labor, including solar panels donated by Beaulieu. Mechanical work and technical assistance was provided by Kevin Fern of AFVTech, which stands for Alternative Fuel Vehicle Technology. Waxman and Fern gave a tour of the vehicle, showing how the solar
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
They will soon realize that the expenditure in solar equipment to make that vehicle go more than a few miles will cost much more than anyone will want to pay. Seems silly to spend 100x as much on solar panels (not including the fuel cell costs) than the electric it produces would have cost for the life of the vehicle from conventional sources. You can't beat liquid fuels for tranportation, and hydrogen is a loser no matter how you make it. But, some folks keep thinking they can beat the laws of physics . = = = Original message = = = Good question! That is what they are getting to, I'm sure... Jonathan Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc - Original Message - From: MH To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. Although the truck performs as planned, it's more of a demonstration project than a practical vehicle. The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles. But that was expected, Waxman said, and the students have a motto that underlines the pioneering nature of the project: How far did the first airplane fly? When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. The truck also can be shifted to conventional power using a dashboard switch, which changes the fuel system over to a gasoline tank and fuel-injection. The students in the Environmental Technology Club who built the hydrogen truck recognize its experimental nature. We want to inform the public that there are different alternative fuels and what can be accomplished, said Nicolas Paredes, a 17-year-old senior. Most of the club members are new this year, the previous years' members having graduated. Nine students attended a recent after-school meeting to access the condition of the hydrogen truck, which was parked all summer and requires some repair, and make plans to advance the project. During the meeting, Waxman said the group plans to make improvements to the existing solar-hydrogen truck plus tackle a new project: a self-sustaining solar-hydrogen vehicle that uses fuel cells to power an electric drive system. The main challenge of building the solar-hydrogen truck was research, with much of the hydrogen-generating system designed by trial and error, Waxman said. The problem is there's no manual that says how to do this, the 39-year-old teacher said. We had to investigate how to make hydrogen for this. Last spring, the project won a first prize and grand prize at the Central Arizona Regional Science
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
It is nice to see technical students work with projects, but the importance, description and conclusions of this project are more damaging publicity than anything real information. The same project or similar have been done many times during the last 100 years and the following comment are misleading and wrong, With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. I have not heard or read anyone who says this. What the opinions voiced is that it will take to 2020 -2030 to have any kind of feasible technology on the road in numbers. A technology that has sufficiently solved the security, storage, range and economic problems, if it can be found at all. This project do nothing to contribute to this. We want to inform the public that there are different alternative fuels and what can be accomplished, said Nicolas Paredes, a 17-year-old senior. It does nothing of the kind, instead it gives hopes to the public about a silver bullet solution that are not present yet and that is very questionable if it can be. I am all for enthusiastic and experimenting students, but not for bad journalism that has no background checks or knowledge. Hakan At 05:24 AM 10/11/2004, you wrote: US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. Although the truck performs as planned, it's more of a demonstration project than a practical vehicle. The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles. But that was expected, Waxman said, and the students have a motto that underlines the pioneering nature of the project: How far did the first airplane fly? When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. The truck also can be shifted to conventional power using a dashboard switch, which changes the fuel system over to a gasoline tank and fuel-injection. The students in the Environmental Technology Club who built the hydrogen truck recognize its experimental nature. We want to inform the public that there are different alternative fuels and what can be accomplished, said Nicolas Paredes, a 17-year-old senior. Most of the club members are new this year, the previous years' members having graduated. Nine students attended a recent after-school meeting to access the condition of the hydrogen truck, which was parked all summer and requires some repair, and make plans to advance the project. During the meeting, Waxman said the group plans to make improvements to the existing solar-hydrogen truck plus tackle a new project: a self-sustaining solar-hydrogen vehicle that uses fuel cells to power an electric drive system. The main challenge of building the solar-hydrogen truck was research, with much of the hydrogen-generating system designed by trial and error, Waxman said. The problem is there's no manual that says how to do this, the 39-year-old teacher said. We had to investigate how to make hydrogen for this. Last spring, the project won a first prize and grand prize at the Central Arizona Regional Science and Engineering Fair and was a finalist in May at the
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
aleviate it (maybe?) Should one's home already be off-grid (as yours is) but running a solar system, wouldn't it be feasible top simply detour a portion of that prodcued energy to a hydrogen capacitor of some sort and then pressure up the truck's tanks from that ? Kinda putting an laready existing sytem to double use ? I know nothing of these things and these are just ideas that sem to make sense, so please feel free to wade in and correct me. Luc - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen They will soon realize that the expenditure in solar equipment to make that vehicle go more than a few miles will cost much more than anyone will want to pay. Seems silly to spend 100x as much on solar panels (not including the fuel cell costs) than the electric it produces would have cost for the life of the vehicle from conventional sources. You can't beat liquid fuels for tranportation, and hydrogen is a loser no matter how you make it. But, some folks keep thinking they can beat the laws of physics . = = = Original message = = = Good question! That is what they are getting to, I'm sure... Jonathan Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc - Original Message - From: MH To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. Although the truck performs as planned, it's more of a demonstration project than a practical vehicle. The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles. But that was expected, Waxman said, and the students have a motto that underlines the pioneering nature of the project: How far did the first airplane fly? When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. The truck also can be shifted to conventional power using a dashboard switch, which changes the fuel system over to a gasoline tank and fuel-injection. The students in the Environmental Technology Club who built the hydrogen truck recognize its experimental nature. We want to inform the public that there are different alternative fuels and what can be accomplished, said Nicolas Paredes, a 17-year-old senior. Most of the club members are new this year, the previous years' members having graduated. Nine students attended a recent after-school meeting to access the condition of the hydrogen truck, which was parked all summer and requires some repair, and make plans to advance the project. During the meeting, Waxman said the group plans to make improvements to the existing solar
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
My friend, you have a very valid point here. The cost in taking your home off grid will be a costly investment. However, that is what it is. An investment in your home and the future! It will save you in the not so distance future in the cost of power for your lights and heating. One can then (If they are using gas) change their heating of their home and water to electric forms of heating reducing the usage of fossil fuels. Every little bit will count in saving our Earth. What we have here is NOT an endless supply. Im currently working on just that for my home here in L.A., CA. Im open to any ideas and I will contribute with information as well. My home will be off grid by this time 2005 and I will post PICs as the work is being done. It will be a very wonderful thing when we advance to that point and the only thing we have to do is add another device to create fuel for your transportation. I can only see that as we progress with this technology, it will only be one that we can use to save money and our Earth. Best regards, Jonathan Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Here's another scenario that could eliminate that conclusion or at least aleviate it (maybe?) Should one's home already be off-grid (as yours is) but running a solar system, wouldn't it be feasible top simply detour a portion of that prodcued energy to a hydrogen capacitor of some sort and then pressure up the truck's tanks from that ? Kinda putting an laready existing sytem to double use ? I know nothing of these things and these are just ideas that sem to make sense, so please feel free to wade in and correct me. Luc - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen They will soon realize that the expenditure in solar equipment to make that vehicle go more than a few miles will cost much more than anyone will want to pay. Seems silly to spend 100x as much on solar panels (not including the fuel cell costs) than the electric it produces would have cost for the life of the vehicle from conventional sources. You can't beat liquid fuels for tranportation, and hydrogen is a loser no matter how you make it. But, some folks keep thinking they can beat the laws of physics . = = = Original message = = = Good question! That is what they are getting to, I'm sure... Jonathan Legal Eagle wrote: When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc - Original Message - From: MH To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20 years to do. Although the truck performs as planned, it's more of a demonstration project than a practical vehicle. The four solar panels and hydrogen-generating system create only enough fuel per day to travel a few miles
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc The whole point of the project is to demonstrate a production to end use system using hydrogen as an energy carrier. The photovoltaic panels carried onboard cannot produce enough current during an entire day to run the truck more than a few miles, but at least they demonstrate that it IS possible to run a vehicle without fossil inputs. You're right that the solar panels could be installed off the vehicle, and the subsequent gas production compressed and used onboard the truck in a conventional manner. I think in certain places it will soon be economically justifiable to use grid power for that purpose. Right now, for instance, I'm paying over $1.00 per liter for premium gasoline. Once it hits $1.10 per liter, the cost for generating and compressing hydrogen from the local grid (at 6 cents per kWh) will be equal. This does not address the point of efficiency, however. By the time I've paid for the engine conversion equipment, the electrolyzer and compressor, I could have easily converted my truck to battery electric for the same money. Once this has occurred, the overwhelming efficiency of electric drive significantly reduces the need for grid power and the overall cost of operation per kilometer. The American Hydrogen Association headquarters is located in Tempe, Arizona. Several teachers from local schools are members who encourage their students to engage in projects of this nature. I once visited a high school down there and saw a direct injected hydrogen conversion on a small block Chevrolet that intrigued me greatly. Since then, however, I have lost much of my enthusiasm for hydrogen as an energy carrier. On the surface, the idea that hydrogen can be generated from clean electricity and burned in a conventional car or truck engine without pollution looks appealing. The reality of its problems and expense dulls this fine gloss over time. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
I'm off grid. There is no way I would divert my few and precious kWh's into producing hydrogen. What a boondoggle. Ethanol and biodiesel would put me yards ahead in the game. Steve www.green-trust.org = = = Original message = = = My friend, you have a very valid point here. The cost in taking your home ~off grid will be a costly investment. However, that is what it is. An investment in your home and the future! It will save you in the not so distance future in the cost of power for your lights and heating. One can then (If they are using gas) change their heating of their home and water to electric forms of heating reducing the usage of fossil fuels. Every little bit will count in saving our Earth. What we have here is NOT an endless supply. I~m currently working on just that for my home here in L.A., CA. I~m open to any ideas and I will contribute with information as well. My home will be off grid by this time 2005 and I will post PIC~s as the work is being done. It will be a very wonderful thing when we advance to that point and the only thing we have to do is add another device to create fuel for your transportation. I can only see that as we progress with this technology, it will only be one that we can use to save money and our Earth. Best regards, Jonathan Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Here's another scenario that could eliminate that conclusion or at least aleviate it (maybe?) Should one's home already be off-grid (as yours is) but running a solar system, wouldn't it be feasible top simply detour a portion of that prodcued energy to a hydrogen capacitor of some sort and then pressure up the truck's tanks from that ? Kinda putting an laready existing sytem to double use ? I know nothing of these things and these are just ideas that sem to make sense, so please feel free to wade in and correct me. Luc - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen They will soon realize that the expenditure in solar equipment to make that vehicle go more than a few miles will cost much more than anyone will want to pay. Seems silly to spend 100x as much on solar panels (not including the fuel cell costs) than the electric it produces would have cost for the life of the vehicle from conventional sources. You can't beat liquid fuels for tranportation, and hydrogen is a loser no matter how you make it. But, some folks keep thinking they can beat the laws of physics . = = = Original message = = = Good question! That is what they are getting to, I'm sure... Jonathan Legal Eagle wrote: When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc - Original Message - From: MH To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north Scottsdale. With practically no resources, they are doing something everybody says it's going to take 20
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Here's another scenario that could eliminate that conclusion or at least aleviate it (maybe?) Should one's home already be off-grid (as yours is) but running a solar system, wouldn't it be feasible top simply detour a portion of that prodcued energy to a hydrogen capacitor of some sort and then pressure up the truck's tanks from that ? The problem with your scenario is this: A kilogram of hydrogen is roughly equivalent in energy to a gallon of gasoline. At 100% efficiency, 15.8 kWh of electricity are needed to produce one kilogram of hydrogen. While it is possible to build an electrolyzer that operates at better than 100% efficiency, its gas production will be insufficient for fuel use on a typical automobile. Most commercial electrolyzers operate in the 50 to 60 % efficiency range; ergo, over 26 kWh of electricity are needed. The kind of electrolyzers I've built in the past will require better than 60 kWh for the same gas production. Aside from the sheer expense of this equipment, if it's even available to average people like you and me, that 26 kWh can be used in a battery electric for better than 5 times the range of an internal combustion engine converted for the same purpose. Fuel cells have YET to demonstrate a significant efficiency improvement over a purpose built hydrogen engine. Why bother with hydrogen when batteries are a proven technology that outperform ANY hydrogen storage system? Kinda putting an laready existing sytem to double use ? I know nothing of these things and these are just ideas that sem to make sense, so please feel free to wade in and correct me. Hydride storage requires no compression as long as the tanks are cool when they're being filled. Hydride is very expensive, though. It contaminates easily and breaks down over time at about the same rate that batteries sulfate. You will either pay to compress the gas, or you'll pay for new hydride every few years. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Okay... Thanks for your input. I'm still open for anything that will help us save our Earth. Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm off grid. There is no way I would divert my few and precious kWh's into producing hydrogen. What a boondoggle. Ethanol and biodiesel would put me yards ahead in the game. Steve www.green-trust.org = = = Original message = = = My friend, you have a very valid point here. The cost in taking your home ~off grid will be a costly investment. However, that is what it is. An investment in your home and the future! It will save you in the not so distance future in the cost of power for your lights and heating. One can then (If they are using gas) change their heating of their home and water to electric forms of heating reducing the usage of fossil fuels. Every little bit will count in saving our Earth. What we have here is NOT an endless supply. I~m currently working on just that for my home here in L.A., CA. I~m open to any ideas and I will contribute with information as well. My home will be off grid by this time 2005 and I will post PIC~s as the work is being done. It will be a very wonderful thing when we advance to that point and the only thing we have to do is add another device to create fuel for your transportation. I can only see that as we progress with this technology, it will only be one that we can use to save money and our Earth. Best regards, Jonathan Legal Eagle wrote:Here's another scenario that could eliminate that conclusion or at least aleviate it (maybe?) Should one's home already be off-grid (as yours is) but running a solar system, wouldn't it be feasible top simply detour a portion of that prodcued energy to a hydrogen capacitor of some sort and then pressure up the truck's tanks from that ? Kinda putting an laready existing sytem to double use ? I know nothing of these things and these are just ideas that sem to make sense, so please feel free to wade in and correct me. Luc - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen They will soon realize that the expenditure in solar equipment to make that vehicle go more than a few miles will cost much more than anyone will want to pay. Seems silly to spend 100x as much on solar panels (not including the fuel cell costs) than the electric it produces would have cost for the life of the vehicle from conventional sources. You can't beat liquid fuels for tranportation, and hydrogen is a loser no matter how you make it. But, some folks keep thinking they can beat the laws of physics . = = = Original message = = = Good question! That is what they are getting to, I'm sure... Jonathan Legal Eagle wrote: When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc - Original Message - From: MH To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught the attention of experts in alternative-fuel research. Over the past three years of research in hydrogen, I've been more impressed with what they did than anything else I've seen around the world, said Scottsdale inventor Bryan Beaulieu, who is building a hydrogen-powered house in north
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Just gave you two (Ethanol and biodiesel/wvo), and now I'll add a third, bio-methane, for stationary apps like generators and heating/cooking. Digest your and your animal's crap for energy. Hydrogen isn't, and won't be anything that will help us save our Earth. = = = Original message = = = Okay... Thanks for your input. I'm still open for anything that will help us save our Earth. Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm off grid. There is no way I would divert my few and precious kWh's into producing hydrogen. What a boondoggle. Ethanol and biodiesel would put me yards ahead in the game. Steve www.green-trust.org = = = Original message = = = My friend, you have a very valid point here. The cost in taking your home ~off grid will be a costly investment. However, that is what it is. An investment in your home and the future! It will save you in the not so distance future in the cost of power for your lights and heating. One can then (If they are using gas) change their heating of their home and water to electric forms of heating reducing the usage of fossil fuels. Every little bit will count in saving our Earth. What we have here is NOT an endless supply. I~m currently working on just that for my home here in L.A., CA. I~m open to any ideas and I will contribute with information as well. My home will be off grid by this time 2005 and I will post PIC~s as the work is being done. It will be a very wonderful thing when we advance to that point and the only thing we have to do is add another device to create fuel for your transportation. I can only see that as we progress with this technology, it will only be one that we can use to save money and our Earth. Best regards, Jonathan Legal Eagle wrote:Here's another scenario that could eliminate that conclusion or at least aleviate it (maybe?) Should one's home already be off-grid (as yours is) but running a solar system, wouldn't it be feasible top simply detour a portion of that prodcued energy to a hydrogen capacitor of some sort and then pressure up the truck's tanks from that ? Kinda putting an laready existing sytem to double use ? I know nothing of these things and these are just ideas that sem to make sense, so please feel free to wade in and correct me. Luc - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen They will soon realize that the expenditure in solar equipment to make that vehicle go more than a few miles will cost much more than anyone will want to pay. Seems silly to spend 100x as much on solar panels (not including the fuel cell costs) than the electric it produces would have cost for the life of the vehicle from conventional sources. You can't beat liquid fuels for tranportation, and hydrogen is a loser no matter how you make it. But, some folks keep thinking they can beat the laws of physics . = = = Original message = = = Good question! That is what they are getting to, I'm sure... Jonathan Legal Eagle wrote: When the vehicle's tanks are filled with compressed hydrogen from an outside source, it has the range of a conventional vehicle, though that defeats the purpose of showing that hydrogen can be created from clean, sustainable sources, then used to fuel vehicles. Yes, but if one were to set up a hydrogen system at one's home using the same solar panels(or more) and hydrogen unit and then stock the hydrogen tanks of the truck, still equiped with it's own system, wouldn't that make it run just like any other ? Luc - Original Message - From: MH To: Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen US FreedomTruck -- Powered by sunlight Student project leaps into future Bob Golfen The Arizona Republic Oct. 1, 2004 12:00 AM The ungainly looking Chevy pickup parked in the courtyard at Central High School, with a huge set of solar panels mounted on top, may not look so futuristic. But it certainly points the way. Hand-built on a shoestring budget by a Central physics teacher and a team of students, the truck is one of a kind, a demonstration of how future transportation can be self-sustaining and pollution-free. The truck is hydrogen-powered and creates its own fuel from solar energy and water, a technical feat that rivals the advanced technology being researched by major auto companies and universities. The four-cylinder engine is tuned to run on hydrogen, which is produced by a hand-built electrolysis system mounted in the bed. Teacher Cory Waxman and his students took four years to build the experiment, believed to be the only self-sustaining hydrogen vehicle that uses a conventional internal-combustion engine. Nobody has ever made a car that runs on sunlight and water, Waxman said. There are other cars that run on hydrogen, but they don't make their own fuel. Built for less than $10,000, the project has caught
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
On Oct 11, 2004, at 8:59 AM, Jonathan Dunlap wrote: Okay... Thanks for your input. I'm still open for anything that will help us save our Earth. Good luck! Let's start by getting world population down to about 500 million, then limiting reproduction to 1 child per person. Then dismantle all nation states. Fuels are a very small part of the REAL problem, though they may be one of the more painful in the short term... - K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
LOL... Okay... Baby steps. We have to start somewhere! Jonathan Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 11, 2004, at 8:59 AM, Jonathan Dunlap wrote: Okay... Thanks for your input. I'm still open for anything that will help us save our Earth. Good luck! Let's start by getting world population down to about 500 million, then limiting reproduction to 1 child per person. Then dismantle all nation states. Fuels are a very small part of the REAL problem, though they may be one of the more painful in the short term... - K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Steve Spence wrote: One of us didn't do our math correctly. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons .79 * 1.27 = 1.0033 gallons 62 * 1.27 = 78.12 miles. Yep, it was me. Somehow I came up with 65 mpg, not 78. Oops. Sorry. Still not available in the US As far as I can tell. Lets try again. one US gallon = 3.785 liters -or- 3 litres = 0.7926 US gallon one kilometre = 0.6214 (statute) miles 100 km x 0.6214 miles/km equals 62.14 miles divide by 0.7926 US gallon equals 78.4 miles/US gallon 235.2/3 = 78.4 miles/US gallon. I like the one below, too. pg. 46 (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
We use Km/l in India. How many litres are there in a gallon? M.P.Singh - Original Message - From: Tomas Juknevicius [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen Wou , wou wou, Unless you use different miles or gallons, Steve, the 3liter /100 km translates to 78 miles/gallon pretty close to 80mpg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, that's only 65 mpg, not 80, so it's not admirable, but doable. However, the Lupo isn't available here in the states, so the Jetta/Beetle is the best we can get at the moment. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Everyone seems to be poor in maths, let me give it a try If what you say is correct i.e. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons Then 1 mile = 1.61 km and 1gallon = 4.78 litres therefore, 100km/3litres will be 33.33 km/litre which is 20.70 miles/ litre which further means 98.95 miles/gallon So if the conversion provided by you is correct, then 100 km/3L and 100 mpg are nearly comparable Best wishes M.P. Singh - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen One of us didn't do our math correctly. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons .79 * 1.27 = 1.0033 gallons 62 * 1.27 = 78.12 miles. Yep, it was me. Somehow I came up with 65 mpg, not 78. Oops. Sorry. Still not available in the US As far as I can tell. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan I sure wouldn't mind getting 100 km on 3 litre. Here in the states that's 235.2 divide by 3 equals 78.4 miles per US gallon. Was your fuel economy around town? It sure would nice to have a VW Lupo diesel or its little brother the one litre diesel tandem seater (235.2 miles/US gallon). SNIP pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
I correct myself. The Us gallon is different from the British one.At 3.79 litres to a gallon 78.45 mpg is correct. Which is 94.51 miles/british gallons. M.P. Singh - Original Message - From: M.P.Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen Everyone seems to be poor in maths, let me give it a try If what you say is correct i.e. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons Then 1 mile = 1.61 km and 1gallon = 4.78 litres therefore, 100km/3litres will be 33.33 km/litre which is 20.70 miles/ litre which further means 98.95 miles/gallon So if the conversion provided by you is correct, then 100 km/3L and 100 mpg are nearly comparable Best wishes M.P. Singh - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen One of us didn't do our math correctly. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons .79 * 1.27 = 1.0033 gallons 62 * 1.27 = 78.12 miles. Yep, it was me. Somehow I came up with 65 mpg, not 78. Oops. Sorry. Still not available in the US As far as I can tell. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan I sure wouldn't mind getting 100 km on 3 litre. Here in the states that's 235.2 divide by 3 equals 78.4 miles per US gallon. Was your fuel economy around town? It sure would nice to have a VW Lupo diesel or its little brother the one litre diesel tandem seater (235.2 miles/US gallon). SNIP pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
M.P., This show that, what is a pipe dream for the Americans, is a reality for the British. LOL Hakan At 09:36 AM 9/30/2004, you wrote: I correct myself. The Us gallon is different from the British one.At 3.79 litres to a gallon 78.45 mpg is correct. Which is 94.51 miles/british gallons. M.P. Singh - Original Message - From: M.P.Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen Everyone seems to be poor in maths, let me give it a try If what you say is correct i.e. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons Then 1 mile = 1.61 km and 1gallon = 4.78 litres therefore, 100km/3litres will be 33.33 km/litre which is 20.70 miles/ litre which further means 98.95 miles/gallon So if the conversion provided by you is correct, then 100 km/3L and 100 mpg are nearly comparable Best wishes M.P. Singh - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen One of us didn't do our math correctly. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons .79 * 1.27 = 1.0033 gallons 62 * 1.27 = 78.12 miles. Yep, it was me. Somehow I came up with 65 mpg, not 78. Oops. Sorry. Still not available in the US As far as I can tell. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan I sure wouldn't mind getting 100 km on 3 litre. Here in the states that's 235.2 divide by 3 equals 78.4 miles per US gallon. Was your fuel economy around town? It sure would nice to have a VW Lupo diesel or its little brother the one litre diesel tandem seater (235.2 miles/US gallon). SNIP pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
M.P., This show that, what is a pipe dream for the Americans, is a reality for the British. LOL Hakan = Now, now Hakan, Don't laugh too soon. Another phrase: This show ain't (is not) over yet! Keeping my grin to myself, Ron B. 8~) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
I correct myself. The Us gallon is different from the British one.At 3.79 litres to a gallon 78.45 mpg is correct. Which is 94.51 miles/british gallons. Yup. 3L/100km equals 78.39 mpg (US) and 94.16 mpg (Imp). Of course, I didn't do any math. :) I just used the conversion form at: http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
M.P.Singh wrote:
I correct myself. The Us gallon is different from the British one.At 3.79
litres to a gallon 78.45 mpg is correct. Which is 94.51 miles/british
gallons.
John Hayes wrote:
Yup. 3L/100km equals 78.39 mpg (US) and 94.16 mpg (Imp). Of course, I
didn't do any math. :) I just used the conversion form at:
http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html
Where were you the other day, geez,
the scrutiny around here. OK already
its 78 firkin mpg US no less.
My goodness. {8*}
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Wou , wou wou, Unless you use different miles or gallons, Steve, the 3liter /100 km translates to 78 miles/gallon pretty close to 80mpg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, that's only 65 mpg, not 80, so it's not admirable, but doable. However, the Lupo isn't available here in the states, so the Jetta/Beetle is the best we can get at the moment. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan I sure wouldn't mind getting 100 km on 3 litre. Here in the states that's 235.2 divide by 3 equals 78.4 miles per US gallon. Was your fuel economy around town? It sure would nice to have a VW Lupo diesel or its little brother the one litre diesel tandem seater (235.2 miles/US gallon). SNIP pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
One of us didn't do our math correctly. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons .79 * 1.27 = 1.0033 gallons 62 * 1.27 = 78.12 miles. Yep, it was me. Somehow I came up with 65 mpg, not 78. Oops. Sorry. Still not available in the US As far as I can tell. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan I sure wouldn't mind getting 100 km on 3 litre. Here in the states that's 235.2 divide by 3 equals 78.4 miles per US gallon. Was your fuel economy around town? It sure would nice to have a VW Lupo diesel or its little brother the one litre diesel tandem seater (235.2 miles/US gallon). SNIP pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
yes, I realized that, and corrected myself in another post. = = = Original message = = = Wou , wou wou, Unless you use different miles or gallons, Steve, the 3liter /100 km translates to 78 miles/gallon pretty close to 80mpg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, that's only 65 mpg, not 80, so it's not admirable, but doable. However, the Lupo isn't available here in the states, so the Jetta/Beetle is the best we can get at the moment. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Steve, Now when the close to the admirable development target is solved, I do want to comment on he availability in US. My proposal was that the admirable development target was already achieved in a production line car and already sold and used by many on the street. That this case is a European situation and for various reasons not applicable for US, it is more a political question and has nothing to do with development targets. Since US have only around 1% diesel cars for personal transportation and Europe getting close to 35%, you can see that the European situation is more favorable for use of the more efficient diesel engine technology. In US you will still have around 30% less fuel consumption with the technology that is generally available there, but with 1% market share it does not look as the US markets are interested anyway. For the US we are talking about a necessary attitude development and political change, not vehicle development. It is very much easier, efficient and economical to go biodiesel route than ethanol route. This only based on the absolute volume in gallons of biofuels that has to be produced. In locations where efficient ethanol production based on sugar cane, like Brazil (or Hawaii), the situation is favorable for both. US as a whole, need some better energy planning and what I earlier said to Ross is very important. Energy systems are at the moment focused on producing energy and little on how to use energy efficiently. To reach a sustainable energy producing approach is very difficult, without a more sustainable use of energy. Considering that the energy waste in housing and transport is well above the 50% mark, it cannot be ignored and must be a part of the future systems. Industrial processes are easier to tackle, but it is also a significant waste. The whole question of material and product uses must be revised. If the use is improved, we can save more than 50% of current energy use, without any material sacrifices. In fact it can be substantial standard improvements instead, especially on the environmental side. Hakan At 02:45 PM 9/29/2004, you wrote: One of us didn't do our math correctly. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons .79 * 1.27 = 1.0033 gallons 62 * 1.27 = 78.12 miles. Yep, it was me. Somehow I came up with 65 mpg, not 78. Oops. Sorry. Still not available in the US As far as I can tell. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan I sure wouldn't mind getting 100 km on 3 litre. Here in the states that's 235.2 divide by 3 equals 78.4 miles per US gallon. Was your fuel economy around town? It sure would nice to have a VW Lupo diesel or its little brother the one litre diesel tandem seater (235.2 miles/US gallon). SNIP pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Well, we do have a few more diesel models to choose from next year (Jeep Liberty CRD is one) than we did last year, so I'm optomistic that diesel penetration is on the rise. Diesel trucks are very popular over here. Ford, GM, and Chrysler all offer diesel pickup/van models. One major reason that many of europe's diesels aren't available in the US is the poor fuel quality here in the US (high sulfur levels), but as ULSD becomes mandated, then more diesels will be imported. I'm hoping that diesel/electric hybrids will get at least as much attention as gas/electric hybrids. Meanwhile, we keep trying to get the word out on biofuels. = = = Original message = = = Steve, Now when the close to the admirable development target is solved, I do want to comment on he availability in US. My proposal was that the admirable development target was already achieved in a production line car and already sold and used by many on the street. That this case is a European situation and for various reasons not applicable for US, it is more a political question and has nothing to do with development targets. Since US have only around 1% diesel cars for personal transportation and Europe getting close to 35%, you can see that the European situation is more favorable for use of the more efficient diesel engine technology. In US you will still have around 30% less fuel consumption with the technology that is generally available there, but with 1% market share it does not look as the US markets are interested anyway. For the US we are talking about a necessary attitude development and political change, not vehicle development. It is very much easier, efficient and economical to go biodiesel route than ethanol route. This only based on the absolute volume in gallons of biofuels that has to be produced. In locations where efficient ethanol production based on sugar cane, like Brazil (or Hawaii), the situation is favorable for both. US as a whole, need some better energy planning and what I earlier said to Ross is very important. Energy systems are at the moment focused on producing energy and little on how to use energy efficiently. To reach a sustainable energy producing approach is very difficult, without a more sustainable use of energy. Considering that the energy waste in housing and transport is well above the 50% mark, it cannot be ignored and must be a part of the future systems. Industrial processes are easier to tackle, but it is also a significant waste. The whole question of material and product uses must be revised. If the use is improved, we can save more than 50% of current energy use, without any material sacrifices. In fact it can be substantial standard improvements instead, especially on the environmental side. Hakan At 02:45 PM 9/29/2004, you wrote: One of us didn't do our math correctly. 100 km = 62 miles 3.78 liters is .79 gallons .79 * 1.27 = 1.0033 gallons 62 * 1.27 = 78.12 miles. Yep, it was me. Somehow I came up with 65 mpg, not 78. Oops. Sorry. Still not available in the US As far as I can tell. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan I sure wouldn't mind getting 100 km on 3 litre. Here in the states that's 235.2 divide by 3 equals 78.4 miles per US gallon. Was your fuel economy around town? It sure would nice to have a VW Lupo diesel or its little brother the one litre diesel tandem seater (235.2 miles/US gallon). SNIP pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan At 05:32 PM 9/28/2004, you wrote: If Iceland has no ability to produce a fuel (their growing season and climate isn't ideal for biofuels), and if they can generate electricity in a clean renewable manner, electrolyse hydrogen, compress it, and run vehicles on it, at a cost that won't bankrupt the citizen or the country, than by all means, go for it. North America doesn't meet these caviats. But under no circumstances should anyone think that the process is cheap, or efficient. It just may be the only option they are left with. Here in the US, electricity is not cheap, plentiful, or green enough to produce hydrogen in a sustainable manner. The other source of hydrogen is fossil fuels, which is the source of hydrogen in our existing market. 60 mpg (GGE) is a doable target near term, using (bio)diesel and (bio)diesel hybrid electrics, in a 4 passenger $15k - $25k car. 80 mpg (GGE) is an admirable target that I support as a goal. 100 mpg is a pipedream for the foreseeable future. www.green-trust.org = = = Original message = = = Steve Spence wrote: It's my belief that Cd 0.26, 0-60 mph in 8.2 s, 114 mpg-equivalent with fuel cell). is unmitigated bull fertilizer. I would really like to see their calculations proving that 114 mpg-equivalent . It would be fun to compare a 50 mpg biofueled (at $3 / GGE) vw jetta diesel with a hydrogen fuel cell electric equivalent. I'm betting the fuel cell vehicle will come in 3x higher in energy costs, and 2x higher in sticker price, unless tax subsidised. Personally I would like to see vehicle efficiencies increased as referred to in the book below and increased use of renewable domestic energy in a sustainable manor. Is there something wrong with Iceland substituting renewable domestic hydrogen for imported hydrocarbon fossil fuel products or a wind or solar or carbohydrate economy doing it elsewhere ? Steve Spence wrote: At $10 / GGE equivalent, I just bet buyers will be lining up to get their fill ... MH wrote: Did you see that in the articles A couple more regarding renewable hydrogen -- Iceland Says 'Filler Up' With Hydrogen May 19, 2003 Source: Iceland Consulate General First Public Hydrogen Filling Station in Iceland is Historic Milestone Toward Hydrogen Economy http://www.hydrogennow.org/HNews/PressReleases/IcelandConsulate1.htm Iceland was chosen for the project because 72 percent of its energy usage is generated from renewable sources, mainly geothermal or hydropower. Iceland's abundance of sustainable hydroelectric and geothermal energy also means the process of electrolyzing water molecules is less costly. The cost of hydrogen is expected to be comparable with that of gasoline once hydrogen passenger vehicles become commonplace. [more] Will hydrogen from water soon run your car? By Tim Bradner Alaska Journal of Commerce Sep 13, 2004 http://www.alaskajournal.com/stories/091304/loc_20040913016.shtml Robertson estimates he can break the hydrogen out of the water and produce a kilogram of hydrogen, which has an energy content roughly equal to a gallon of gasoline, using about 55 kilowatt hours of electricity. If each kilowatt hour costs 3 cents, it means the approximate cost of making hydrogen is about $1.65 per kilogram, the equivalent to a gallon of gasoline. That's just the raw cost of making the hydrogen, Robertson admits. Capital and operating costs must be added. Still, Robertson believes the total cost of producing the equivalent of a gallon of gasoline in the form of hydrogen will be about on par with a premium grade of gasoline, about $2.11 per gallon in the [U.S.] Pacific Northwest today. [more] Steve Spence wrote: At $10 / GGE equivalent, I just bet buyers will be lining up to get their fill ... MH wrote: Did you see that in the articles anyway that's one way of thinking about it another is a comparison of today's SUV using gasoline @ $2 US gallon to a ultralight SUV given your figure $10 / GGE equivalent with a concept vehicle such as: 2000 Hypercar Revolution show car that mocks up a midsize SUV virtual design (857 kg, 5 seats, by-wire, Cd 0.26, 0~60 mph in 8.2 s, 114 mpg-equivalent with fuel cell). page 61, Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com That's about 5x the fuel economy of its 2000 gasoline SUV counterpart with similar annual fuel costs. SNIP Their are other automotive examples in the book*: pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets.
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Well, that's only 65 mpg, not 80, so it's not admirable, but doable. However, the Lupo isn't available here in the states, so the Jetta/Beetle is the best we can get at the moment. = = = Original message = = = Steve, The VW Lupo 3L is a 4 passenger diesel car for around $11k, that is doing 100 km on 3 litre, so the admirable target can already be bought. It is a nice car and fast enough to get hefty speeding tickets in the US. I tried and like it, will buy one when I sell my Nissan estate diesel. Hakan At 05:32 PM 9/28/2004, you wrote: 60 mpg (GGE) is a doable target near term, using (bio)diesel and (bio)diesel hybrid electrics, in a 4 passenger $15k - $25k car. 80 mpg (GGE) is an admirable target that I support as a goal. 100 mpg is a pipedream for the foreseeable future. www.green-trust.org ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Steve Spence wrote: At $10 / GGE equivalent, I just bet buyers will be lining up to get their fill ... Did you see that in the articles anyway that's one way of thinking about it another is a comparison of today's SUV using gasoline @ $2 US gallon to a ultralight SUV given your figure $10 / GGE equivalent with a concept vehicle such as: 2000 Hypercar Revolution show car that mocks up a midsize SUV virtual design (857 kg, 5 seats, by-wire, Cd 0.26, 0ö60 mph in 8.2 s, 114 mpg-equivalent with fuel cell). page 61, Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com That's about 5x the fuel economy of its 2000 gasoline SUV counterpart with similar annual fuel costs. Additional excerpts below: pg. 62 The original Revolution concept car (Fig. 18d) was designed in 2000 by an engineering team assembled by Hypercar, Inc., including... The goal was to demonstrate the technical feasibility and the driver, societal, and automaker benefits of holistic vehicle design focused on efficiency and lightweight composite structures. It was designed to have breakthrough (5ö6x) efficiency, meet U.S. and European safety standards, and satisfy a rigorous and complete set of product requirements for a sporty and spacious five-passenger SUV crossover vehicle segment with technologies that could be in volume production at competitive cost within five years. The design combined packaging comparable to the 2000 Lexus RX 300 (five adults in comfort, and up to 69 ft3 (1.95 m3) of cargo with the rear seats folded flat), half-ton hauling capacity up a 44% grade, and brisk acceleration (0ö60 mph in 8.2 s). Its low drag and halved weight yielded a simulated EPA adjusted 114 mpg (2.06 L/100 km), or =99 mpg on-the-road (2.38), using a fuel cell ~5 percentage points less efficient than todayâs norm. Industry-standard simulations also showed that a 35-mph (56-km/h) crash into a wall wouldnât damage the passenger compartment÷ most cars get totaled at about half that speed÷ and that even in a head-on collision with a steel SUV twice its weight, each at 30 mph (48 km/h), the ultralight car would protect its occupants from serious injury. [more] Their are other automotive examples in the book*: pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) pg. 48 Figure 9: Two mild hybrids competing with the full-hybrid Toyota Prius in the U.S. L: 2-seat Honda Insight, 59ö64 mpg. R: The reportedly profitable 5-seat Honda Civic Hybrid, 49 mpg, ~10% share of Civic market. Insightâs successor might resemble the 2003 carbon-fiber concept IMAS÷ 698 kg, Cd 0.20, 94 mpg on the Japanese 10/15 cycle. pg. 50 Figure 10: Three 2000 PNGV diesel-hybrid midsize concept sedans and their gasoline-equivalent mpg L to R: GM Precept (1,176 kg, Cd 0.163, 80 mpg), Ford Prodigy (1,083 kg, Cd 0.20, 70 mpg), and Dodge ESX3 (polymer body, 1,021 kg, Cd 0.22, 72 mpg). Of their efficiency gains, totaling 2.7ö3.1 vs.the 26-mpg Taurus-class base vehicle, pg. 55 Figure 13: Four composite concept cars: From LöR, they are: Daihatsu 2003 2+(2)-seat UFE-II hybrid (569 kg, carbon-fiber, Cd 0.19, 141 mpg on Japanese 10/15 cycle, by-wire); 1996 4-seat Coup (1,080 kg including 320 kg/25 kWh NaNiCl batteries, pure-electric, 100-mi range with a/c on, 12ö20 DC kWh/100 km, 114ö190 mpg-equivalent) developed by Horlacher in Switzerland for Pantila in Thailand; BMW 1999 Z22 (~20 body parts, ~1,100 kg [~30% weight cut] via carbon and other composites and light metals, 39 mpg, by-wire); VW 2001 ãEin-Liter-Autoä 2-seat tandem 1-cylinder diesel (carbon fiber, 290 kg, Cd 0.159, 8.5 hp, 74 mph, 238 mpg). (A 1990 carbon/aramid 2-seat Swiss electric car weighed just 230 kg without batteries.) *With photos and footnotes. - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen Solar hydrogen - energy of the future 26 August 2004 http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/adv/articles/2004/aug/Solar_hydrogen.html SNIP New Process Could Help Make Hydrogen Fuel Affordable Stephanie Peatling in Sydney for National Geographic News August 27, 2004 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/08/0827_040827_hydrogen_energy.html SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
It's my belief that Cd 0.26, 0-60 mph in 8.2 s, 114 mpg-equivalent with fuel cell). is unmitigated bull fertilizer. I would really like to see their calculations proving that 114 mpg-equivalent . It would be fun to compare a 50 mpg biofueled (at $3 / GGE) vw jetta diesel with a hydrogen fuel cell electric equivalent. I'm betting the fuel cell vehicle will come in 3x higher in energy costs, and 2x higher in sticker price, unless tax subsidised. = = = Original message = = = Steve Spence wrote: At $10 / GGE equivalent, I just bet buyers will be lining up to get their fill ... Did you see that in the articles anyway that's one way of thinking about it another is a comparison of today's SUV using gasoline @ $2 US gallon to a ultralight SUV given your figure $10 / GGE equivalent with a concept vehicle such as: 2000 Hypercar Revolution show car that mocks up a midsize SUV virtual design (857 kg, 5 seats, by-wire, Cd 0.26, 0~60 mph in 8.2 s, 114 mpg-equivalent with fuel cell). page 61, Winning the Oil Endgame - http://www.oilendgame.com That's about 5x the fuel economy of its 2000 gasoline SUV counterpart with similar annual fuel costs. Additional excerpts below: pg. 62 The original Revolution concept car (Fig. 18d) was designed in 2000 by an engineering team assembled by Hypercar, Inc., including... The goal was to demonstrate the technical feasibility and the driver, societal, and automaker benefits of holistic vehicle design focused on efficiency and lightweight composite structures. It was designed to have breakthrough (5~6x) efficiency, meet U.S. and European safety standards, and satisfy a rigorous and complete set of product requirements for a sporty and spacious five-passenger SUV crossover vehicle segment with technologies that could be in volume production at competitive cost within five years. The design combined packaging comparable to the 2000 Lexus RX 300 (five adults in comfort, and up to 69 ft3 (1.95 m3) of cargo with the rear seats folded flat), half-ton hauling capacity up a 44% grade, and brisk acceleration (0~60 mph in 8.2 s). Its low drag and halved weight yielded a simulated EPA adjusted 114 mpg (2.06 L/100 km), or =99 mpg on-the-road (2.38), using a fuel cell ~5 percentage points less efficient than today~s norm. Industry-standard simulations also showed that a 35-mph (56-km/h) crash into a wall wouldn~t damage the passenger compartment~ most cars get totaled at about half that speed~ and that even in a head-on collision with a steel SUV twice its weight, each at 30 mph (48 km/h), the ultralight car would protect its occupants from serious injury. [more] Their are other automotive examples in the book*: pg. 46 A typical recent-year production car gets about 28 EPA adjusted mpg, or 8.4 liters of fuel per 100 km, on level city streets. (To convert between miles per U.S. gallon [mpg] and L/100 km, divide 235.2 by the other.) pg. 48 Figure 9: Two mild hybrids competing with the full-hybrid Toyota Prius in the U.S. L: 2-seat Honda Insight, 59~64 mpg. R: The reportedly profitable 5-seat Honda Civic Hybrid, 49 mpg, ~10% share of Civic market. Insight~s successor might resemble the 2003 carbon-fiber concept IMAS~ 698 kg, Cd 0.20, 94 mpg on the Japanese 10/15 cycle. pg. 50 Figure 10: Three 2000 PNGV diesel-hybrid midsize concept sedans and their gasoline-equivalent mpg L to R: GM Precept (1,176 kg, Cd 0.163, 80 mpg), Ford Prodigy (1,083 kg, Cd 0.20, 70 mpg), and Dodge ESX3 (polymer body, 1,021 kg, Cd 0.22, 72 mpg). Of their efficiency gains, totaling 2.7~3.1 vs.the 26-mpg Taurus-class base vehicle, pg. 55 Figure 13: Four composite concept cars: From L~R, they are: Daihatsu 2003 2+(2)-seat UFE-II hybrid (569 kg, carbon-fiber, Cd 0.19, 141 mpg on Japanese 10/15 cycle, by-wire); 1996 4-seat Coup~ (1,080 kg including 320 kg/25 kWh NaNiCl batteries, pure-electric, 100-mi range with a/c on, 12~20 DC kWh/100 km, 114~190 mpg-equivalent) developed by Horlacher in Switzerland for Pantila in Thailand; BMW 1999 Z22 (~20 body parts, ~1,100 kg [~30% weight cut] via carbon and other composites and light metals, 39 mpg, by-wire); VW 2001 ~Ein-Liter-Auto~ 2-seat tandem 1-cylinder diesel (carbon fiber, 290 kg, Cd 0.159, 8.5 hp, 74 mph, 238 mpg). (A 1990 carbon/aramid 2-seat Swiss electric car weighed just 230 kg without batteries.) *With photos and footnotes. - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen Solar hydrogen - energy of the future 26 August 2004 http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/adv/articles/2004/aug/Solar_hydrogen.html SNIP New Process Could Help Make Hydrogen Fuel Affordable Stephanie Peatling in Sydney for National Geographic News August 27
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
At $10 / GGE equivalent, I just bet buyers will be lining up to get their fill ... - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen Solar hydrogen - energy of the future 26 August 2004 http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/adv/articles/2004/aug/Solar_hydrogen.html A team of Australian scientists predicts that a revolutionary new way to harness the power of the sun to extract clean and almost unlimited energy supplies from water will be a reality within seven years. Solar hydrogen, Professor Sorrell argues, is not incompatible with coal. It can be used to produce solar methanol, which produces less carbon dioxide than conventional methods. As a mid-term energy carrier it has a lot to say for it, he says New Process Could Help Make Hydrogen Fuel Affordable Stephanie Peatling in Sydney for National Geographic News August 27, 2004 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/08/0827_040827_hydrogen_energy.html Scientists in Australia say they have have made a breakthrough in the efficiency of using sunlight to generate hydrogen from water. It may be a step toward an affordable source of clean energy. A renewable source of energy to replace the world's declining fossil fuel reserves is perhaps the scientific community's holy grail. Hydrogen is all around us. It is seen by many as the cleanest and most efficient fuel for powering everything from vehicles to furnaces and air-conditioning-if only we can find an affordable way to harness it. Now two researchers in Australia say they have made substantial progress. Scientists have known for a long time how to split water into its two elements, oxygen and hydrogen. But the problem is that the process requires electricity-typically derived from fossil fuels-which makes the process counterproductive and expensive. Janusz Nowotny and Charles Sorrell are researchers from the Centre for Materials Research in Energy Conversion at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. They have been looking for an economical way to use titanium dioxide to act as a catalyst to split water into oxygen and hydrogen-using solar energy. The Stuff of Toothpaste Titanium dioxide (TiO2) is widely used as a white pigment in paint, paper, cosmetics, sunscreens, and toothpastes. It is found in its purest form in rutile, a beach sand but is also extracted from certain ores. Rio Tinto, a mining company that produces titanium oxide, helps fund Nowotny's and Sorrell's research. Nowotny and Sorrell announced their breakthrough today at the International Conference on Materials for Hydrogen Energy, hosted by the University of New South Wales in Sydney. They believe they have found a way to considerably improve the productivity of the solar hydrogen process (using sunlight to extract hydrogen from water) using a device made out of titanium dioxide. This is potentially huge, with a market the size of all the existing markets for coal, oil, and gas combined,'' Nowotny said in a news statement released ahead of the conference. Based on our research results, we know we are on the right track. Although Australia's sunny climate makes it an ideal place to generate solar energy, Sorrell said the technology could be used anywhere in the world. It's been the dream of many people for a long time to develop it, and it's exciting to know it's within such close reach, Sorrell said. Honda-Fujishima Effect The Australians' research has not been tested yet by other scientists, although the findings were applauded by the pioneers of the solar hydrogen process, Akira Fujishima and Kenichi Honda. In 1967 the Japanese scientists discovered that titanium dioxide could be used to extract hydrogen from water in a process that has become known as the Honda-Fujishima effect. The finding was reported in the journal Nature and led to numerous awards, including the 2004 Japan Prize in the category Chemical Technology for the Environment. Hydrogen is very simple but very efficient,'' said Fujishima, who is also in Sydney for today's conference. We must keep working hard on it.'' Since the 1967 discovery much research has focused on the materials that might be used to split water with sunlight. Fujishima, chairman of the Kanagawa Academy of Science and Technology, says using titanium dioxide as a catalyst means energy production will result in cleaner air, cleaner water, and a cleaner atmosphere. Many Years to Hydrogen Power The world is still a long way off from large-scale conversion from fossil fuels to hydrogen for its energy needs. For one thing, the Honda-Fujishima effect, even if it is greatly enhanced by the research breakthrough announced today, still has to be adapted into devices that can be used on a commercially viable scale. Engineers will have to design fuel cells that collect sunlight from
[Biofuel] Solar Hydrogen
Solar hydrogen - energy of the future 26 August 2004 http://www.unsw.edu.au/news/adv/articles/2004/aug/Solar_hydrogen.html A team of Australian scientists predicts that a revolutionary new way to harness the power of the sun to extract clean and almost unlimited energy supplies from water will be a reality within seven years. Solar hydrogen, Professor Sorrell argues, is not incompatible with coal. It can be used to produce solar methanol, which produces less carbon dioxide than conventional methods. As a mid-term energy carrier it has a lot to say for it, he says New Process Could Help Make Hydrogen Fuel Affordable Stephanie Peatling in Sydney for National Geographic News August 27, 2004 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/08/0827_040827_hydrogen_energy.html Scientists in Australia say they have have made a breakthrough in the efficiency of using sunlight to generate hydrogen from water. It may be a step toward an affordable source of clean energy. A renewable source of energy to replace the world's declining fossil fuel reserves is perhaps the scientific community's holy grail. Hydrogen is all around us. It is seen by many as the cleanest and most efficient fuel for powering everything from vehicles to furnaces and air-conditioning÷if only we can find an affordable way to harness it. Now two researchers in Australia say they have made substantial progress. Scientists have known for a long time how to split water into its two elements, oxygen and hydrogen. But the problem is that the process requires electricity÷typically derived from fossil fuels÷which makes the process counterproductive and expensive. Janusz Nowotny and Charles Sorrell are researchers from the Centre for Materials Research in Energy Conversion at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. They have been looking for an economical way to use titanium dioxide to act as a catalyst to split water into oxygen and hydrogen÷using solar energy. The Stuff of Toothpaste Titanium dioxide (TiO2) is widely used as a white pigment in paint, paper, cosmetics, sunscreens, and toothpastes. It is found in its purest form in rutile, a beach sand but is also extracted from certain ores. Rio Tinto, a mining company that produces titanium oxide, helps fund Nowotny's and Sorrell's research. Nowotny and Sorrell announced their breakthrough today at the International Conference on Materials for Hydrogen Energy, hosted by the University of New South Wales in Sydney. They believe they have found a way to considerably improve the productivity of the solar hydrogen process (using sunlight to extract hydrogen from water) using a device made out of titanium dioxide. This is potentially huge, with a market the size of all the existing markets for coal, oil, and gas combined,'' Nowotny said in a news statement released ahead of the conference. Based on our research results, we know we are on the right track. Although Australia's sunny climate makes it an ideal place to generate solar energy, Sorrell said the technology could be used anywhere in the world. It's been the dream of many people for a long time to develop it, and it's exciting to know it's within such close reach, Sorrell said. Honda-Fujishima Effect The Australians' research has not been tested yet by other scientists, although the findings were applauded by the pioneers of the solar hydrogen process, Akira Fujishima and Kenichi Honda. In 1967 the Japanese scientists discovered that titanium dioxide could be used to extract hydrogen from water in a process that has become known as the Honda-Fujishima effect. The finding was reported in the journal Nature and led to numerous awards, including the 2004 Japan Prize in the category Chemical Technology for the Environment. Hydrogen is very simple but very efficient,'' said Fujishima, who is also in Sydney for today's conference. We must keep working hard on it.'' Since the 1967 discovery much research has focused on the materials that might be used to split water with sunlight. Fujishima, chairman of the Kanagawa Academy of Science and Technology, says using titanium dioxide as a catalyst means energy production will result in cleaner air, cleaner water, and a cleaner atmosphere. Many Years to Hydrogen Power The world is still a long way off from large-scale conversion from fossil fuels to hydrogen for its energy needs. For one thing, the Honda-Fujishima effect, even if it is greatly enhanced by the research breakthrough announced today, still has to be adapted into devices that can be used on a commercially viable scale. Engineers will have to design fuel cells that collect sunlight from rooftops and elsewhere. The world's energy infrastructure is primarily based on fossil fuels and nuclear energy. Transitioning from gasoline-powered vehicles and gas stations to hydrogen-fuel replacements would require a
