Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

August 12, 2005 Good morning. I have been forwarding information from the Biofuels email list to Dad to bounce ideas off of him. He is a retired chemist. He lent us Lifting theFog: the Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a documentary. My wife and I didn't get a lot out of this documentary

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Brian Rodgers wrote: That was gruesome. Want to talk about Biofuels again? Sure! Let's do that. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

hi tom. yes, you have the right picture, though it actually went further. it wasn't just a matter of *trying* to reach consensus before acting. unanimous consensus was essentially mandatory (an artifact of their particular brand of imperial government perhaps: disharmony/discord could not

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

robert luis rabello wrote I just watched a documentary on the Nagasaki bombing a few nights ago. One of the points brought out in the film concerned the division within the "big 6", a council of Japanese military leaders, regarding the conditions for surrender. They knew their war had been

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Brian Rodgers wrote: Was this documentary called Lifting of the fog: the Bombings of Hiroshima And Nagasaki? No. The documentary dealt specifically with Nagasaki. Two of the men onboard the Bocks Car B 29 were interviewed, as well as a number of Japanese who survived the ordeal and the

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:39:25 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of HiroshimaHi Keith,You misinterpret my suspician. My suspician is that the site is blocked from me. I work at an embassy school and will try

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Hi Keith, You misinterpret my suspician. My suspician is that the site is blocked from me. I work at an embassy school and will try again at home. Sounds most improbable. Actually quite probable considering I was there as the school was built and the computing and

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

i think so as well, i'm afraid. if they can seriously pursue projects like Total Information Awareness without compunction, then filtering the telecommunications of a governmental property would be like, at the autonomic nervous system level. what do you do at the school, tom? teacher?

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Hi Chris, This year I teach Environmental Science, Physical Science, Earth Science, Chemistry and Pre-Algebra. It's a small school so we all teach multiple subjects. Tom From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:03:53 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Greetings Chris, I can´t say for sure what the author´s intent actually was. From my limited experience, someWWII analysts thought that the Japanese discussed everything in detail and tried to come to a consensus before acting. It doesn´t seem too far fetched that even Hiroshima would take

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Tom Irwin wrote: Greetings Chris, I can´t say for sure what the author´s intent actually was. From my limited experience, some WWII analysts thought that the Japanese discussed everything in detail and tried to come to a consensus before acting. It doesn´t seem too far fetched that even

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Aug 2005 19:49:37 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima doug, *Part* of the Japanese government was trying to find a way to surrender, you've been misinformed. this is a misrepresentation of the facts. it was hirohito himself, quite on his own, that asked the soviets to mediate

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

typical think-tank rubbish. an opinion piece masquerading as serious (and unimpeachable, of course!) historical analysis. the thing is, the piece is desperately short on analysis, though long on subtext. he rather selectively piles up a bunch of data about the tactical situation in the

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

i forgot to mention, if you hadn't figured out what that weekly standard piece was all about by the time you'd reached the author's fifth coded reference to the pro-communist, pro-gay agenda, tree-hugging, tax-and-spend, anti-patriotic, anti-american, anti-life, terrorist-loving liberal elite,

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Hi Keith, I can't read what will not come up on my computer screen. I have tried repeatedly to bring up that site and my computer just runs and runs. Suspicious for sure but I'm merely ignorant not lazy. Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Hi Keith, I tried accessing that site repeatedly and my computer just churns and churns and never gets there. I've even done the usual stuff like truncating web site name down a bit and still it just churns. This is suspicious to be sure. I may be ignorant but I'm not lazy. Tom

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

sue: Sixty years after Hiroshima, we now have the secret intercepts that shaped his decision. by Richard B. Frank 08/08/2005, Volume 010, Issue 44 Tom Irwin From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:49:37 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hirosh

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Hi Keith, You misinterpret my suspician. My suspician is that the site is blocked from me. I work at an embassy school and will try again at home. I don't always evaluate newspapers just individual reporters. I look for my U.S. news in British papers and my European news in certain American

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

, and it's getting a little tiresome. Keith Tom Irwin From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:46:54 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima Hi Keith, I can't read what will not come up on my computer screen. I have

RE: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

From the 16th century Japan (and long before) the Japanese establishment had looked on the world as a battleground of aggressive empires, Like Britton, France, Spain, and Portugal you mean. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

*Part* of the German command was looking for a way out - look what happened to Rommel. Didn't change the war much. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Part* of the Japanese government was trying to find a way to surrender, before the atom bombs. Part of the U.S. Navy command held the view that no

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

"*Part* of the German command was looking for a way out - look what happened to Rommel. Didn't change the war much." There are alot of "what if's" that can be discussed to exhaustion. It may seem like a waste of time. However, I'd prefer to do that than focus entirely on the outcome and say

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

In a message dated 8/6/05 10:31:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't think that you are looking at the picture in the same light as the planners were. Actually greg, we haven't been talking about what was in the minds of the planners. The subject has been the wholly abitrary statements

[Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Greetings, I will agree that there are many factors that were not made public at the time of the bombing that did allow the myths to grow. I wonder though, how can any nation call themselves moral and strong when they do not want their people to know what has been done in their name? If the

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

doug, *Part* of the Japanese government was trying to find a way to surrender, before the atom bombs. you've been misinformed. this is a misrepresentation of the facts. it was hirohito himself, quite on his own, that asked the soviets to mediate a peace. later, the government junta voted

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Hi folks, I hope everyone is reading all the attachments to articles on this topic. I found theone in the Weekly Standard to be very credible. Thanks Greg and April for thisinformation. Perhaps that´s my own personal bias. How would you attack this Chris B. and Hakan? More government

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:49:37 -0300 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima doug, *Part* of the Japanese government was trying to find a way to surrender, you've been

RE: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

look, this whole thing about an invasion of japan costing a million american lives is utterly ridiculous. What puzzles me is that America had planned the invasion of the Japanese islands as far back as 1920. Why? What did they have that the US wanted? That’s probably the reason they did not

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

lto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:53:38 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima But the truth be told, I'm here today because they were used and we haven't had a world war since thier invention.Using the logic you initiated prior to that statement To

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

shore bombardment to the final surrender. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 14:30 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima look, this whole thing about an invasion of japan costing a million

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima I don't think that you are looking at the picture in the same light as the planners were. Yes, Omaha beach was bad.But lets look at more realistic numbers

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

*Part* of the Japanese government was trying to find a way to surrender, before the atom bombs. Part of the U.S. Navy command held the view that no further military operations were necessary and Japan would be compelled to surrender if the Allies just waited. Most of the U.S. Army and government

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima But the truth be told, I'm here today because they were used and we haven't had a world war since thier invention. Using the logic you initiated prior to that statement Tom, that we really have no idea of the mindset of Japan's WWII

RE: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

In 1920 both the U.S. and Japanese militaries considered that a war between the two countries was possible, and many thought it ultimately probable. For some time a major part of the Japanese government, establishment and armed forces had been dedicated to building an empire by force. A large

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima Far from hating the United States, it appears that the Russian people were very favourably disposed toward the U.S. at the end of World War II. Allied aid, mostly from the U.S., was a crucial factor in enabling the U.S.S.R. to stay in the war

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

look, this whole thing about an invasion of japan costing a million american lives is utterly ridiculous. that would be four times the american combat deaths in the entire war. the landing at omaha beach is usually described as one of the most horrifically deadly battlefield environments of

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 14:30 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima look, this whole thing about an invasion of japan costing a million american lives is utterly ridiculous. that would be four times the american combat deaths in the entire war. the landing at omaha beach

[Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.story The myths of Hiroshima By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are coauthors of American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, published earlier this year by

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Hi All, Although I'm in agreement about the Enola Gay exhibit, I will have to disagree about the use of the bombs. As slightly more modern barbarians we really have no idea of the mindset of Japan's WWII government. Perhaps Keith can give his insights since he lives close by. My reading of

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

]] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0300 Subject: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.story The myths of Hiroshima By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are coauthors

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

*From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Fri, 05 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0300 *Subject:* [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe

[Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.story August 5, 2005 latimes.com : Opinion : Commentary The myths of Hiroshima By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are coauthors of American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Today, in the post-9/11 era, it is critically important that the U.S. face the truth about the atomic bomb. For one thing, the myths surrounding Hiroshima have made it possible for our defense establishment to argue that atomic bombs are legitimate weapons that belong in a democracy's arsenal.

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Far from hating the United States, it appears that the Russian people were very favourably disposed toward the U.S. at the end of World War II. Allied aid, mostly from the U.S., was a crucial factor in enabling the U.S.S.R. to stay in the war and defeat the Germans. Thousands of Russian soldiers

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

So just out of curiosity Doug, What are you basing all your guesswork on? Relative to invade or not invade and casualty counts it sounds very much like the historical American mantra of how things would have unfolded if this or if that. Doesn't it make some sense to review those facets

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

Because of the sheer number of people involved and the secrecy at the time and after it is hard to put into perspective the thinking that went into the decision to use the atomic bomb. There appeared to be no question that the Truman government was convinced that an invasion would be