Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
This is not just a question of the government' going bankrupt. It is
something that is endemic to corporate america. Check out this frontline
video about the bankrupcy case for United Airlines. At several points
in the movie the lawyers and financial experts say that the kind of
dirty financial moves that United made are happening in a very
widespread way with many large corporations in america. Warning you
might find this video very upsetting.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/
Joe
Jason Katie wrote:
if the us government admits it is bankrupt, the dollar will be bunk. noone
will want it, or if they do accept it, the exchange rate will be horrifying,
all those millions of dollars they have squirreled away will be worth
tens, maybe hundreds if they are lucky. all of this because noone has any
reason to come to us other than to exploit our weakness, as we have to
others for so long. made in america will be equivalent to what Made in
Japan meant sixty years ago. well be making cocktail umbrellas for less
than minimum wage because we have no other option. cities will bcome rattier
and even more degenerate than they are, and there will most likely be food
riots, and street battles between the authorities and civilian dissidents.
think about every high power that has ever fallen face first, and what
happened in the aftermath. it wont be pretty. as for people in the cities
they have alternatives, they just dont use them wether through not knowing
or just plain stupidity, mostly because they wont approach anyone to ask
them. the elderly and the young will most likely be helped by their families
and friends either through love or common decency.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
A lot of things have to stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food
to name a few. People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly
and very young.
The bulk of the suffering will be borne by the poor - the corporate and
governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to their villas.
Kirk
Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver
To:
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Well Joe the bottom line is what we knew has finally become official. Payers into the system, ie workers, halve or worse and baby boomers retiring means retirees triple or worse. The math isn't rocket science. What we see know are the psychopaths that have always tried to hide behind doublespeak are finally becoming so outrageous even Joe lunchbucket can see the emperor has no clothes. The transfer of wealth in the last decade has risen to even beyond my wildest dream. Enron bookkeeping is the norm not the exception and you can expect more of it as long as we see treatment of these crimes to be the usual whitewash. The accounting firm that did the shredding at Enron is scot free rather than being made to indemnify the pension funds of the workers. If the accounting firm is not liable -AFTER DELIBERATELY SHREDDING- then who is? The foxes are in charge of the henhouse. I wasnt kidding when I posted that 95% of the
psychopaths are not in prison - though wolves should be kept from the sheep.God bless the child that has his own.KirkJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not just a question of the "government' going bankrupt. It is something that is endemic to corporate america. Check out this frontline video about the bankrupcy case for United Airlines. At several points in the movie the lawyers and financial experts say that the kind of dirty financial moves that United made are happening in a very widespread way with many large corporations in america. Warning you might find this video very upsetting.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/JoeJason Katie wrote: if the us government admits
it is bankrupt, the dollar will be bunk. noone will want it, or if they do accept it, the exchange rate will be horrifying, all those millions of dollars "they" have squirreled away will be worth tens, maybe hundreds if they are lucky. all of this because noone has any reason to come to us other than to exploit our weakness, as we have to others for so long. "made in america" will be equivalent to what "Made in Japan" meant sixty years ago. well be making cocktail umbrellas for less than minimum wage because we have no other option. cities will bcome rattier and even more degenerate than they are, and there will most likely be food riots, and street battles between the authorities and civilian dissidents. think about every high power that has ever fallen face first, and what happened in the aftermath. it wont be pretty. as for people in the cities they have
alternatives, they just dont use them wether through not knowing or just plain stupidity, mostly because they wont approach anyone to ask them. the elderly and the young will most likely be helped by their families and friends either through love or common decency. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt" A lot of things have to stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food to name a few. People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly and very young. The bulk of the suffering will be borne by the poor - the corporate and governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to their
villas. Kirk Jason Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's and politicians) that are screwed. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Mike Weaver" To: Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt" Um, it's not really "they" it's "us" too...Jason Katie wrote:good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and
thenpiddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?Jason Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free
Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006___
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Probably that is their plan. If we eliminated corporate welfare the US could enjoy a golden age but presently she is riddled with parasites. The social welfare they will eliminate was purchased by the poor but they will probably be robbed again. Sigh. I heard an interesting statistic. Only 5% of psychopaths are in prison. Most are in government and business and tend to be very successful. I suppose having no limits is helpful in those occupations. This study is real - not a joke.Kirk[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Part of the cure might be to eliminate all social-welfare spending.I suspect that this has been part of the right-wing fanatics' plan for the last quarter century.Then, inflation has long been a cure for debt. It takes from the middle class who are wont to hold paper assets, and gives to the equity-holders; the rich.Doug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, CanadaOn Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml US 'could be going bankrupt' By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor (Filed: 14/07/2006) How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
*From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
*Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml
US 'could be going bankrupt'
By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor
(Filed: 14/07/2006)
The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an
extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the
country's central bank.
A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb
could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to
research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve
Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve.
Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already
bankrupt. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the
United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped
bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in
consequence of failure to pay its creditors, he asked.
According to his central analysis, the US government is, indeed,
bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who,
in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has
explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various
kinds''.
The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush
administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal
shortfall this year by almost a third, saying it will come in at
2.3pc of gross domestic product. This is smaller than most
European countries - including the UK - which have deficits north
of 3pc of GDP.
Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says: The
proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the
lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If
these burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close
to doing so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full
collection, the country's policy will be unsustainable and can
constitute or lead to national bankruptcy.
Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for sure, but
there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be going
broke.
Experts have calculated that the country's long-term fiscal gap
between all future government spending and all future receipts
will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and as
the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions
soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible
$65.9 trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and
Smetters.
The figure is massive because President George W Bush has made
major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for Medicare,
which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid,
which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to
demographics.
Prof Kotlikoff said: This figure is more than five times US GDP
and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap
one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments
are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying.
One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal
and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent
two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third
alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and
permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc.
The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors
lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at
some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may
reduce
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
A lot of things have to stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food to name a few. People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly and very young. The bulk of the suffering will be borne by thepoor - the corporate and governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to their villas.KirkJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house, furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's and politicians) that are screwed.JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message
- From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <BIOFUEL@SUSTAINABLELISTS.ORG>Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt" Um, it's not really "they" it's "us" too... Jason Katie wrote: good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or 3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it? Jason<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]><mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
if the us government admits it is bankrupt, the dollar will be bunk. noone
will want it, or if they do accept it, the exchange rate will be horrifying,
all those millions of dollars they have squirreled away will be worth
tens, maybe hundreds if they are lucky. all of this because noone has any
reason to come to us other than to exploit our weakness, as we have to
others for so long. made in america will be equivalent to what Made in
Japan meant sixty years ago. well be making cocktail umbrellas for less
than minimum wage because we have no other option. cities will bcome rattier
and even more degenerate than they are, and there will most likely be food
riots, and street battles between the authorities and civilian dissidents.
think about every high power that has ever fallen face first, and what
happened in the aftermath. it wont be pretty. as for people in the cities
they have alternatives, they just dont use them wether through not knowing
or just plain stupidity, mostly because they wont approach anyone to ask
them. the elderly and the young will most likely be helped by their families
and friends either through love or common decency.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
A lot of things have to stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food
to name a few. People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly
and very young.
The bulk of the suffering will be borne by the poor - the corporate and
governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to their villas.
Kirk
Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you dont need money if you can supply a need. i know more than just fuel, i
can build just about anything a person would have as a daily need. house,
furniture, small macines, engine repair, anyone with a skill is pretty well
safe. it is the people who have never had to work a day in their life (CEO's
and politicians) that are screwed.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Mike Weaver
To:
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
"they" understand this better than most of us and I assure you the crash of the dollar will be an opportunity to them. They will purchase real assets for pennies. "They" steal it all back so they can then sell it back to us for another generations labor. We are hamsters or "coppertops". A consumable.KirkJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if the us government admits it is bankrupt, the dollar will be bunk. noone will want it, or if they do accept it, the exchange rate will be horrifying, all those millions of dollars "they" have squirreled away will be worth tens, maybe hundreds if they are lucky. all of this because noone has any reason to come to us other than to exploit our weakness, as we have to others for so long. "made in america" will be equivalent to what "Made in
Japan" meant sixty years ago. well be making cocktail umbrellas for less than minimum wage because we have no other option. cities will bcome rattier and even more degenerate than they are, and there will most likely be food riots, and street battles between the authorities and civilian dissidents. think about every high power that has ever fallen face first, and what happened in the aftermath. it wont be pretty. as for people in the cities they have alternatives, they just dont use them wether through not knowing or just plain stupidity, mostly because they wont approach anyone to ask them. the elderly and the young will most likely be helped by their families and friends either through love or common decency.JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Kirk McLorenTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:32 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel]
{Disarmed} Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt"A lot of things have to stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food to name a few. People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly and very young.The bulk of the suffering will be borne by the poor - the corporate and governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to their villas.Kirk
Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Whatever "we" may "be" to
"them," who what when where why and howI am to myself
iswhatmatters most, not just to me, but to everyone else too.
So whatever else I might say is really for me, and you can read it if you want
or not, it doesn't matter, unless it does to you. For myself, I'm
accepting my hamsterhood, but not as a mindless hamster. I'm a hamster
that knows he's a hamster. As such, I'm asking myself how can I best
position myselfand mymost immediate loved ones for what's coming to
the extent that I can know what's coming.Every piece of information,
every opinion, every whatever that comes to my attention, I try to receive and
process as an answer to my question of how do Iposition myself for what's
coming. But that question is within a context: given I'd like to maintain
some semblance of what is to me a relatively basic lifestyle (which isn't basic
at all considering I have running tap water, an indoortoilet that runs to
a sewer [that runs towhere I choose not to think about], lights (and
various applicances),cable lines for my TV and internet access, and I
haven't even walked outside to my garage),I guess the answer begins with
an answer to the question,HowcanI position
myself? Factor in how much will be decided for me., and I'm not sure what
it is I'm really left with. Will I need bars on my
windows?Shall I plan on waiting in line for long hours for a grain
of rice? Will I be reduced to absolute hamsterdom?I'm going
for a walk. Mike DuPree
- Original Message -
From:
Kirk
McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 2:04
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed}
Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt"
"they" understand this better than most of us and I assure you the crash
of the dollar will be an opportunity to them. They will purchase real assets
for pennies. "They" steal it all back so they can then sell it back to us for
another generations labor. We are hamsters or "coppertops". A
consumable.
KirkJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
if
the us government admits it is bankrupt, the dollar will be bunk. noone
will want it, or if they do accept it, the exchange rate will be
horrifying, all those millions of dollars "they" have squirreled away
will be worth tens, maybe hundreds if they are lucky. all of this
because noone has any reason to come to us other than to exploit our
weakness, as we have to others for so long. "made in america" will be
equivalent to what "Made in Japan" meant sixty years ago. well be making
cocktail umbrellas for less than minimum wage because we have no other
option. cities will bcome rattier and even more degenerate than they
are, and there will most likely be food riots, and street battles
between the authorities and civilian dissidents. think about every high
power that has ever fallen face first, and what happened in the
aftermath. it wont be pretty. as for people in the cities they have
alternatives, they just dont use them wether through not knowing or just
plain stupidity, mostly because they wont approach anyone to ask them.
the elderly and the young will most likely be helped by their families
and friends either through love or common decency.JasonICQ#:
154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message -
From: Kirk McLorenTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent:
Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:32 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed}
Telegraph - US "could be going bankrupt"A lot of things have to
stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food to name a few.
People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly and very
young.The bulk of the suffering will be borne by the poor - the
corporate and governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to
their villas.Kirk
Do you Yahoo!?Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new
Yahoo! Mail Beta.
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
the only possible flaw i see in your argument is that when a person has
nearly nothing, they fight that much harder to keep whatever they do have.
my brother and i had a hamster when we were kids, he was really nice and
fuzzy and cute until you pissed him off, then he would bite REALLY FRAGGIN'
HARD! i am generally a nice person (fuzzy maybe, but not very cute) until i
am pushed. but when you get right down to it, everyone has their limit of
tolerance for things like this.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: MK DuPree
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Whatever we may be to them, who what when where why and how I am to
myself is what matters most, not just to me, but to everyone else too. So
whatever else I might say is really for me, and you can read it if you want
or not, it doesn't matter, unless it does to you. For myself, I'm accepting
my hamsterhood, but not as a mindless hamster. I'm a hamster that knows
he's a hamster. As such, I'm asking myself how can I best position myself
and my most immediate loved ones for what's coming to the extent that I can
know what's coming. Every piece of information, every opinion, every
whatever that comes to my attention, I try to receive and process as an
answer to my question of how do I position myself for what's coming. But
that question is within a context: given I'd like to maintain some semblance
of what is to me a relatively basic lifestyle (which isn't basic at all
considering I have running tap water, an indoor toilet that runs to a sewer
[that runs to where I choose not to think about], lights (and various
applicances), cable lines for my TV and internet access, and I haven't even
walked outside to my garage), I guess the answer begins with an answer to
the question, How can I position myself? Factor in how much will be decided
for me., and I'm not sure what it is I'm really left with. Will I need bars
on my windows? Shall I plan on waiting in line for long hours for a grain
of rice? Will I be reduced to absolute hamsterdom? I'm going for a walk.
Mike DuPree
- Original Message -
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
they understand this better than most of us and I assure you the crash of
the dollar will be an opportunity to them. They will purchase real assets
for pennies. They steal it all back so they can then sell it back to us
for another generations labor. We are hamsters or coppertops. A
consumable.
Kirk
Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
if the us government admits it is bankrupt, the dollar will be bunk. noone
will want it, or if they do accept it, the exchange rate will be horrifying,
all those millions of dollars they have squirreled away will be worth
tens, maybe hundreds if they are lucky. all of this because noone has any
reason to come to us other than to exploit our weakness, as we have to
others for so long. made in america will be equivalent to what Made in
Japan meant sixty years ago. well be making cocktail umbrellas for less
than minimum wage because we have no other option. cities will bcome rattier
and even more degenerate than they are, and there will most likely be food
riots, and street battles between the authorities and civilian dissidents.
think about every high power that has ever fallen face first, and what
happened in the aftermath. it wont be pretty. as for people in the cities
they have alternatives, they just dont use them wether through not knowing
or just plain stupidity, mostly because they wont approach anyone to ask
them. the elderly and the young will most likely be helped by their families
and friends either through love or common decency.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Kirk McLoren
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
A lot of things have to stay functional. Power, roads, fuel, water and food
to name a few. People who live in cities have few alternatives. Also elderly
and very young.
The bulk of the suffering will be borne by the poor - the corporate and
governmental psychopaths have the money to go elsewhere to their villas.
Kirk
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
[Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xmlUS 'could be going bankrupt'By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor (Filed: 14/07/2006)The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the country's central bank. A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb could send the economic superpower into insolvency, according to research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve. Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already bankrupt. "To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in consequence of failure to pay its creditors," he asked. According to his central analysis, "the US government is, indeed, bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who, in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various kinds''. The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal shortfall this year by almost a third, saying it will come in at 2.3pc of gross domestic product. This is smaller than most European countries - including the UK - which have deficits north of 3pc of GDP. Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says: "The proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If these burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close to doing so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full collection, the country's policy will be unsustainable and can constitute or lead to national bankruptcy. "Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for sure, but there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be going broke." Experts have calculated that the country's long-term "fiscal gap" between all future government spending and all future receipts will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and as the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible $65.9 trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and Smetters. The figure is massive because President George W Bush has made major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for Medicare, which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid, which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to demographics. Prof Kotlikoff said: "This figure is more than five times US GDP and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying. One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc." The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds. Prof Kotlikoff said: "The United States has experienced high rates of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries over the past century." Paul Ashworth, of Capital Economics, was more sanguine about the coming retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. "For a start, the expected deterioration in the Federal budget owes more to rising per capita spending on health care than to changing demographics," he said. "This can be contained if the political will is there. Similarly, the expected increase in social security spending can be controlled by reducing the growth rate of benefits. Expecting a fix now is probably asking too much of short-sighted politicians who have no incentives to do so. But a fix, or at least a succession of patches, will come when the problem becomes more pressing." Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Kirk, Kotlikoff is not the first and will not be the last to point out the alarming discrepancies and the Americans are still hiding their heads in the sand. When we last discussed this, many suggested that Iraq and confiscating the second largest oil reserves, would be something of a help. Many of us suggested that it would not work that way, on the contrary, US is doing something it cannot afford. This becomes clearer for every day that passes. Some US corporations get a lot, but the average Americans are paying. Now it rather makes US morally bankrupt as well as financially. Hakan At 01:04 15/07/2006, you wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml US 'could be going bankrupt' By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor (Filed: 14/07/2006) The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the country's central bank. A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve. Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already bankrupt. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in consequence of failure to pay its creditors, he asked. According to his central analysis, the US government is, indeed, bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who, in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various kinds''. The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal shortfall this year by almost a third, saying it will come in at 2.3pc of gross domestic product. This is smaller than most European countries - including the UK - which have deficits north of 3pc of GDP. Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says: The proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If these burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close to doing so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full collection, the country's policy will be unsustainable and can constitute or lead to national bankruptcy. Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for sure, but there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be going broke. Experts have calculated that the country's long-term fiscal gap between all future government spending and all future receipts will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and as the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible $65.9 trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and Smetters. The figure is massive because President George W Bush has made major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for Medicare, which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid, which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to demographics. Prof Kotlikoff said: This figure is more than five times US GDP and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying. One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc. The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds. Prof Kotlikoff said: The United States has experienced high rates of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries over the past century. Paul Ashworth, of Capital Economics, was more sanguine about the coming retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. For a start, the expected deterioration in the Federal budget owes more to rising per capita spending on health care than to changing demographics, he said. This can be contained if the political will is there. Similarly, the expected increase in social security spending can be controlled by reducing the growth rate of benefits. Expecting a fix now is probably asking too much of
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
That's better, gold, anyone? Hakan Falk wrote: Kirk, Kotlikoff is not the first and will not be the last to point out the alarming discrepancies and the Americans are still hiding their heads in the sand. When we last discussed this, many suggested that Iraq and confiscating the second largest oil reserves, would be something of a help. Many of us suggested that it would not work that way, on the contrary, US is doing something it cannot afford. This becomes clearer for every day that passes. Some US corporations get a lot, but the average Americans are paying. Now it rather makes US morally bankrupt as well as financially. Hakan At 01:04 15/07/2006, you wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml US 'could be going bankrupt' By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor (Filed: 14/07/2006) The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the country's central bank. A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve. Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already bankrupt. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in consequence of failure to pay its creditors, he asked. According to his central analysis, the US government is, indeed, bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who, in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various kinds''. The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal shortfall this year by almost a third, saying it will come in at 2.3pc of gross domestic product. This is smaller than most European countries - including the UK - which have deficits north of 3pc of GDP. Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says: The proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If these burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close to doing so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full collection, the country's policy will be unsustainable and can constitute or lead to national bankruptcy. Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for sure, but there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be going broke. Experts have calculated that the country's long-term fiscal gap between all future government spending and all future receipts will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and as the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible $65.9 trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and Smetters. The figure is massive because President George W Bush has made major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for Medicare, which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid, which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to demographics. Prof Kotlikoff said: This figure is more than five times US GDP and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying. One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc. The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds. Prof Kotlikoff said: The United States has experienced high rates of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries over the past century. Paul Ashworth, of Capital Economics, was more sanguine about the coming retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. For a start, the expected deterioration in the Federal budget owes more to rising per capita spending on health care than to changing demographics, he said. This can be contained if the political will is there. Similarly, the expected increase in social security spending can be controlled by reducing the growth rate of benefits.
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like
that, and then piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt
2 or 3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From:
Kirk
McLoren
To: biofuel
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph -
US "could be going bankrupt"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml
US 'could be going
bankrupt'By Edmund Conway, Economics
Editor
(Filed: 14/07/2006)
The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according
to an extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the
country's central bank.
A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare
timebomb could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according
to research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve Bank
of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve.
Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is
already bankrupt. "To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the
United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped bare,
destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in consequence of
failure to pay its creditors," he asked.
According to his central analysis, "the US government
is, indeed, bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors,
who, in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has
explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various
kinds''.
The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush
administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal shortfall this
year by almost a third, saying it will come in at 2.3pc of gross
domestic product. This is smaller than most European countries -
including the UK - which have deficits north of 3pc of GDP.
Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says:
"The proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the
lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If these
burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close to doing
so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full collection, the
country's policy will be unsustainable and can constitute or lead to
national bankruptcy.
"Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for
sure, but there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be
going broke."
Experts have calculated that the country's long-term
"fiscal gap" between all future government spending and all future
receipts will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and
as the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions
soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible $65.9
trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and Smetters.
The figure is massive because President George W Bush
has made major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for
Medicare, which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid,
which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to
demographics.
Prof Kotlikoff said: "This figure is more than five
times US GDP and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to
wrap one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments
are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying. One
solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal and
corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent two-thirds
cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third alternative, were
it feasible, would be to immediately and permanently cut all federal
discretionary spending by 143pc."
The scenario has serious implications for the dollar.
If investors lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country
may at some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may
reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds.
Prof Kotlikoff said: "The United States has experienced
high rates of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same
type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries
over the past century."
Paul Ashworth, of Capital Economics, was more sanguine
about the coming retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. "For a start,
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Um, it's not really they it's us too...
Jason Katie wrote:
good. its about time. if i were to spend money like that, and then
piddle away my savings and retirement, i would have been bankrupt 2 or
3 times in the last year, so why should they get away with it?
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
*From:* Kirk McLoren mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2006 6:04 PM
*Subject:* [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going
bankrupt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml
US 'could be going bankrupt'
By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor
(Filed: 14/07/2006)
The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an
extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the
country's central bank.
A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb
could send! the economic superpower into insolvency, according to
research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve
Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve.
Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already
bankrupt. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the
United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped
bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in
consequence of failure to pay its creditors, he asked.
According to his central analysis, the US government is, indeed,
bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who,
in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has
explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various
kinds''.
The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush
administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal
shortfall this year by almost a third, saying it will come in at
2.3pc of gross domestic product. This is smaller than most
European countries - including the UK - which have deficits north
of 3pc of GDP.
Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says: The
proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the
lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If
these burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close
to doing so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full
collection, the country's policy will be unsustainable and can
constitute or lead to national bankruptcy.
Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for sure, but
there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be going
broke.
Experts have calculated that the country's long-term fiscal gap
between all future government spending and all future receipts
will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and as
the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions
soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible
$65.9 trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and
Smetters.
The figure is massive because President George W Bush has made
major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for Medicare,
which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid,
which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to
demographics.
Prof Kotlikoff said: This figure is more than five times US GDP
and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap
one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments
are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying.
One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal
and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent
two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third
alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and
permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc.
The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors
lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at
some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may
reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds.
Prof Kotlikoff said: The United States has experienced high rates
of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type
of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries
over the past century.
Paul Ashworth, of Capital Economics, was more sanguine about the
coming retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. For a start, the
expected deterioration in the Federal budget owes more to rising
per capita spending on health care than to changing demographics,
he said.
This can
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Telegraph - US could be going bankrupt
Part of the cure might be to eliminate all social-welfare spending. I suspect that this has been part of the right-wing fanatics' plan for the last quarter century. Then, inflation has long been a cure for debt. It takes from the middle class who are wont to hold paper assets, and gives to the equity-holders; the rich. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml US 'could be going bankrupt' By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor (Filed: 14/07/2006) The United States is heading for bankruptcy, according to an extraordinary paper published by one of the key members of the country's central bank. A ballooning budget deficit and a pensions and welfare timebomb could send the economic superpower into insolvency, according to research by Professor Laurence Kotlikoff for the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis, a leading constituent of the US Federal Reserve. Prof Kotlikoff said that, by some measures, the US is already bankrupt. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in consequence of failure to pay its creditors, he asked. According to his central analysis, the US government is, indeed, bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who, in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various kinds''. The budget deficit in the US is not massive. The Bush administration this week cut its forecasts for the fiscal shortfall this year by almost a third, saying it will come in at 2.3pc of gross domestic product. This is smaller than most European countries - including the UK - which have deficits north of 3pc of GDP. Prof Kotlikoff, who teaches at Boston University, says: The proper way to consider a country's solvency is to examine the lifetime fiscal burdens facing current and future generations. If these burdens exceed the resources of those generations, get close to doing so, or simply get so high as to preclude their full collection, the country's policy will be unsustainable and can constitute or lead to national bankruptcy. Does the United States fit this bill? No one knows for sure, but there are strong reasons to believe the United States may be going broke. Experts have calculated that the country's long-term fiscal gap between all future government spending and all future receipts will widen immensely as the Baby Boomer generation retires, and as the amount the state will have to spend on healthcare and pensions soars. The total fiscal gap could be an almost incomprehensible $65.9 trillion, according to a study by Professors Gokhale and Smetters. The figure is massive because President George W Bush has made major tax cuts in recent years, and because the bill for Medicare, which provides health insurance for the elderly, and Medicaid, which does likewise for the poor, will increase greatly due to demographics. Prof Kotlikoff said: This figure is more than five times US GDP and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap one's head around $65.9trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying. One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc. The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds. Prof Kotlikoff said: The United States has experienced high rates of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries over the past century. Paul Ashworth, of Capital Economics, was more sanguine about the coming retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. For a start, the expected deterioration in the Federal budget owes more to rising per capita spending on health care than to changing demographics, he said. This can be contained if the political will is there. Similarly, the expected increase in social security spending can be controlled by reducing the growth rate of benefits. Expecting a fix now is probably asking too much of short-sighted politicians who have no incentives to do so. But a fix, or at least a succession of patches, will come when the problem becomes more pressing. ___
