Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
Hi Chip Keith Addison wrote: The Telegraph article is below. Goldman Sachs has been talking to Lester Brown, it's exactly his line, especially about China. Haha. Don't think Goldman Sachs actually talks to anyone. :-) No, I don't suppose they actually do. More like someone there read some of Brown's website. :) Or wherever. He's sure tireless when it comes to getting himself widely published. It's about agrofuels, not biofuels. That said, it's hard to find an actual case of anyone actually starving because of agrofuels expansion. It's all just assumed, like all the projections Brown and others make. But it's very fashionable to blame biofuels (agrofuels) for whatever might stick, there's solid column-inches in media exposure to be gained, for one thing. Take a closer look and it vanishes. As quite a few recent posts show. Agreed, however, all that said, the prices of feedstocks, regardless of intended use are going up, radically. Personally, I think this is a good thing, but I fear that behind it all, is monsanto et al, just making a play for a drastic increase in market share. Yes. Land use for biofuels has shot up from 12m to more than 80m hectares worldwide over six years, says Goldman Sachs. Sounds dire eh? Brazil has 320m hectares [3.2m sq km] of arable land, only a fifth of which is cultivated. Of this, less than 4% is used for ethanol production ... This is not a choice between food and energy. (Brazil's president Luiz Lula) The FAO says the total world agricultural area is 5.0 billion hectares. So the 80m hectares worldwide under biofuels is 1.6% of the total. How can that account for food price rises in the last year variously touted as 10%, 17%, 20%, 43%, double? My point. Retail food prices are indeed soaring worldwide. ExxonMobil's $40.6 billion profits from rising oil prices point rather clearly at one cause - high oil costs, in a globalised food system that depends on fossil-fuel inputs at every stage, that plus corporate profit-taking by the food industry (or perhaps profiteering). The same causes are pushing all consumer prices up, not just food. Apparently world concrete prices are way up too, difficult to explain how it's caused by the evils of biofuels though. Biofuels or not, ag commodity prices probably aren't going to stop rising, nor will oil prices. It's already causing hardship, especially for poorer people, in the industrialised countries as well as the 3rd World. Grow your own. Go local. Best Keith Egg-zactly! This is, here in the west for certain, a good thing. As things go now, where folks are able to access real high quality food products at farmers markets and farm shops, one hears about people complaining about the costs of 'real food'. Yes, that's James's point too, and I agree. But the downside is the effect on those who can't afford real food - 40 million Americans live below the poverty line, for instance, including a high proportion of children. Genuine poverty, not just lazy won't-works after a free ride on the welfare system, as so often alleged (most odiously). As one small farmer put it to a person sniffing at the cost of his eggs compared to the supermarket variety, sure, you can buy 3 times the eggs at the supermarket for what I'm charging, but ONE of my eggs contains more nutrition than a dozen of those white balls. Exaggeration? perhaps, but sadly, perhaps not. Definitely not. It's worse than that - previous post: Donna Fezler of Grand Cypress Ranch did a funded, controlled study of the nutritional value of grocery-store vs free-range eggs. She had three groups of chicks, fed on free-choice non-medicated commercial feed, with one group fed a supplement of cooked free-range eggs twice a day, a second fed the same amount of grocery-store eggs, and the third a control getting only the free-choice feed. The grocery store egg fed group ate more than any group by 28 days and weighed the least ... the grocery eggs were actually negative nutrition. The birds in that group had poor feed efficiency, consuming the most feed and having the least weight gain. The free-range egg fed birds were 22.4% heavier than the grocery egg fed birds... There were residual effects of the grocery egg on the chicks' development... There is an issue here: grocery store eggs did not even provide the same nutrition as nothing at all with these chicks. See: http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0010L=sanet-mgT=0F=S=P=11762 More here: http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0402L=sanet-mgT=0F=S=P=14869 Also: Salmonella levels over 5x higher in battery eggs than organic http://www.naturalchoices.co.uk/Salmonella-levels-over-5x-higher?id_mot=7 Mercola just posted some useful comments: The Multiple Benefits of Organic, Free-Range Eggs http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/2/19/most-grocery-store-eggs-far-more-likely-to-be-infected.aspx Meet Real
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
Great Keith - that's the reply I've been waiting for - and expecting. We've all got a lot to thank you for. Thank you! You're most welcome James, thanks for your kind words. James ps. hope you don't get 2 of these Only one. :-) One definite plus here where I am is that local produce prices are becoming ever more competitive - without changing Good point. I wonder if that also applies to what unsubsidized farms in 3rd World countries can still manage to produce in competition with the artificially cheap, heavily subsidized commodities dumped on their markets by the rich countries now the rich-country struff is getting pricier. If that's quite what's happening... Best Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food The Telegraph article is below. Goldman Sachs has been talking to Lester Brown, it's exactly his line, especially about China. It's about agrofuels, not biofuels. That said, it's hard to find an actual case of anyone actually starving because of agrofuels expansion. It's all just assumed, like all the projections Brown and others make. But it's very fashionable to blame biofuels (agrofuels) for whatever might stick, there's solid column-inches in media exposure to be gained, for one thing. Take a closer look and it vanishes. As quite a few recent posts show. Land use for biofuels has shot up from 12m to more than 80m hectares worldwide over six years, says Goldman Sachs. Sounds dire eh? Brazil has 320m hectares [3.2m sq km] of arable land, only a fifth of which is cultivated. Of this, less than 4% is used for ethanol production ... This is not a choice between food and energy. (Brazil's president Luiz Lula) The FAO says the total world agricultural area is 5.0 billion hectares. So the 80m hectares worldwide under biofuels is 1.6% of the total. How can that account for food price rises in the last year variously touted as 10%, 17%, 20%, 43%, double? Retail food prices are indeed soaring worldwide. ExxonMobil's $40.6 billion profits from rising oil prices point rather clearly at one cause - high oil costs, in a globalised food system that depends on fossil-fuel inputs at every stage, that plus corporate profit-taking by the food industry (or perhaps profiteering). The same causes are pushing all consumer prices up, not just food. Apparently world concrete prices are way up too, difficult to explain how it's caused by the evils of biofuels though. Biofuels or not, ag commodity prices probably aren't going to stop rising, nor will oil prices. It's already causing hardship, especially for poorer people, in the industrialised countries as well as the 3rd World. Grow your own. Go local. Best Keith http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/02/07/cnoil107.xml Why the price of 'peak oil' is famine By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard International Business Editor Last Updated: 2:54am GMT 09/02/2008 Vulnerable regions of the world face the risk of famine over the next three years as rising energy costs spill over into a food crunch, according to US investment bank Goldman Sachs. We've never been at a point in commodities where we are today, said Jeff Currie, the bank's commodity chief and closely watched oil guru. Sugar cane on a bullock cart in India - the commodity is popular as the basis of biofuel, as it is a cost-effective and cleaner alternative to oil Global oil output has been stagnant for four years, failing to keep up with rampant demand from Asia and the Mid-East. China's imports rose 14pc last year. Biofuels from grain, oil seed and sugar are plugging the gap, but drawing away food supplies at a time when the world is adding more than 70m mouths to feed a year. Markets are as tight as a drum and now the US has hit the stimulus button, said Mr Currie in his 2008 outlook. We have never seen this before when commodity prices were already at record highs. Over the next 18 to 36 months we are probably going into crisis mode across the commodity complex. The key is going to be agriculture. China is terrified of the current situation. It has real physical shortages, he said, referencing China still having memories of starvation in the 1960s seared in its collective mind. While the US housing crash poses some threat to the price of metals and energy, the effect has largely occurred already. The slide in crude prices over the past month may have been caused by funds liquidating derivatives contracts to cover other demands rather than by recession fears. Goldman Sachs forecasts that oil will be priced at $105 a barrel by the end of 2008. The current supercycle is a break with history because energy and food have converged in price and can increasingly be switched from one use
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
The Telegraph article is below. Goldman Sachs has been talking to Lester Brown, it's exactly his line, especially about China. It's about agrofuels, not biofuels. That said, it's hard to find an actual case of anyone actually starving because of agrofuels expansion. It's all just assumed, like all the projections Brown and others make. But it's very fashionable to blame biofuels (agrofuels) for whatever might stick, there's solid column-inches in media exposure to be gained, for one thing. Take a closer look and it vanishes. As quite a few recent posts show. Land use for biofuels has shot up from 12m to more than 80m hectares worldwide over six years, says Goldman Sachs. Sounds dire eh? Brazil has 320m hectares [3.2m sq km] of arable land, only a fifth of which is cultivated. Of this, less than 4% is used for ethanol production ... This is not a choice between food and energy. (Brazil's president Luiz Lula) The FAO says the total world agricultural area is 5.0 billion hectares. So the 80m hectares worldwide under biofuels is 1.6% of the total. How can that account for food price rises in the last year variously touted as 10%, 17%, 20%, 43%, double? Retail food prices are indeed soaring worldwide. ExxonMobil's $40.6 billion profits from rising oil prices point rather clearly at one cause - high oil costs, in a globalised food system that depends on fossil-fuel inputs at every stage, that plus corporate profit-taking by the food industry (or perhaps profiteering). The same causes are pushing all consumer prices up, not just food. Apparently world concrete prices are way up too, difficult to explain how it's caused by the evils of biofuels though. Biofuels or not, ag commodity prices probably aren't going to stop rising, nor will oil prices. It's already causing hardship, especially for poorer people, in the industrialised countries as well as the 3rd World. Grow your own. Go local. Best Keith http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/02/07/cnoil107.xml Why the price of 'peak oil' is famine By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard International Business Editor Last Updated: 2:54am GMT 09/02/2008 Vulnerable regions of the world face the risk of famine over the next three years as rising energy costs spill over into a food crunch, according to US investment bank Goldman Sachs. We've never been at a point in commodities where we are today, said Jeff Currie, the bank's commodity chief and closely watched oil guru. Sugar cane on a bullock cart in India - the commodity is popular as the basis of biofuel, as it is a cost-effective and cleaner alternative to oil Global oil output has been stagnant for four years, failing to keep up with rampant demand from Asia and the Mid-East. China's imports rose 14pc last year. Biofuels from grain, oil seed and sugar are plugging the gap, but drawing away food supplies at a time when the world is adding more than 70m mouths to feed a year. Markets are as tight as a drum and now the US has hit the stimulus button, said Mr Currie in his 2008 outlook. We have never seen this before when commodity prices were already at record highs. Over the next 18 to 36 months we are probably going into crisis mode across the commodity complex. The key is going to be agriculture. China is terrified of the current situation. It has real physical shortages, he said, referencing China still having memories of starvation in the 1960s seared in its collective mind. While the US housing crash poses some threat to the price of metals and energy, the effect has largely occurred already. The slide in crude prices over the past month may have been caused by funds liquidating derivatives contracts to cover other demands rather than by recession fears. Goldman Sachs forecasts that oil will be priced at $105 a barrel by the end of 2008. The current supercycle is a break with history because energy and food have converged in price and can increasingly be switched from one use to another. Corn can be used for ethanol in cars and power plants, for plastics, as well as in baking tortillas. Natural gas can be made into fertiliser for food output. Peak Oil is morphing into Peak Food. Land use for biofuels has shot up from 12m to more than 80m hectares worldwide over six years. Biofuel provides 3pc of global energy needs, which will rise to an estimated 10.6pc by 2030. In a pure market, sugar cane would be the only viable biofuel with a cost of $35 a barrel (oil equivalent). The others are sugar beet ($103), corn ($81), wheat ($145), rapeseed ($209), soybean ($232), cellulose ($305). Subsidies drive the business. The US offers tax relief of $1 a gallon for biodiesel. The EU has a 10pc biofuel target by 2010. The crop switch comes just as China and India make the leap to an animal-based diet, replicating the pattern seen in Japan and Korea, where people raised their protein intake nine-fold as they became rich. It takes 8.3
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
Great Keith - that's the reply I've been waiting for - and expecting. We've all got a lot to thank you for. Thank you! James ps. hope you don't get 2 of these - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food The Telegraph article is below. Goldman Sachs has been talking to Lester Brown, it's exactly his line, especially about China. It's about agrofuels, not biofuels. That said, it's hard to find an actual case of anyone actually starving because of agrofuels expansion. It's all just assumed, like all the projections Brown and others make. But it's very fashionable to blame biofuels (agrofuels) for whatever might stick, there's solid column-inches in media exposure to be gained, for one thing. Take a closer look and it vanishes. As quite a few recent posts show. Land use for biofuels has shot up from 12m to more than 80m hectares worldwide over six years, says Goldman Sachs. Sounds dire eh? Brazil has 320m hectares [3.2m sq km] of arable land, only a fifth of which is cultivated. Of this, less than 4% is used for ethanol production ... This is not a choice between food and energy. (Brazil's president Luiz Lula) The FAO says the total world agricultural area is 5.0 billion hectares. So the 80m hectares worldwide under biofuels is 1.6% of the total. How can that account for food price rises in the last year variously touted as 10%, 17%, 20%, 43%, double? Retail food prices are indeed soaring worldwide. ExxonMobil's $40.6 billion profits from rising oil prices point rather clearly at one cause - high oil costs, in a globalised food system that depends on fossil-fuel inputs at every stage, that plus corporate profit-taking by the food industry (or perhaps profiteering). The same causes are pushing all consumer prices up, not just food. Apparently world concrete prices are way up too, difficult to explain how it's caused by the evils of biofuels though. Biofuels or not, ag commodity prices probably aren't going to stop rising, nor will oil prices. It's already causing hardship, especially for poorer people, in the industrialised countries as well as the 3rd World. Grow your own. Go local. Best Keith http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/02/07/cnoil107.xml Why the price of 'peak oil' is famine By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard International Business Editor Last Updated: 2:54am GMT 09/02/2008 Vulnerable regions of the world face the risk of famine over the next three years as rising energy costs spill over into a food crunch, according to US investment bank Goldman Sachs. We've never been at a point in commodities where we are today, said Jeff Currie, the bank's commodity chief and closely watched oil guru. Sugar cane on a bullock cart in India - the commodity is popular as the basis of biofuel, as it is a cost-effective and cleaner alternative to oil Global oil output has been stagnant for four years, failing to keep up with rampant demand from Asia and the Mid-East. China's imports rose 14pc last year. Biofuels from grain, oil seed and sugar are plugging the gap, but drawing away food supplies at a time when the world is adding more than 70m mouths to feed a year. Markets are as tight as a drum and now the US has hit the stimulus button, said Mr Currie in his 2008 outlook. We have never seen this before when commodity prices were already at record highs. Over the next 18 to 36 months we are probably going into crisis mode across the commodity complex. The key is going to be agriculture. China is terrified of the current situation. It has real physical shortages, he said, referencing China still having memories of starvation in the 1960s seared in its collective mind. While the US housing crash poses some threat to the price of metals and energy, the effect has largely occurred already. The slide in crude prices over the past month may have been caused by funds liquidating derivatives contracts to cover other demands rather than by recession fears. Goldman Sachs forecasts that oil will be priced at $105 a barrel by the end of 2008. The current supercycle is a break with history because energy and food have converged in price and can increasingly be switched from one use to another. Corn can be used for ethanol in cars and power plants, for plastics, as well as in baking tortillas. Natural gas can be made into fertiliser for food output. Peak Oil is morphing into Peak Food. Land use for biofuels has shot up from 12m to more than 80m hectares worldwide over six years. Biofuel provides 3pc of global energy needs, which will rise to an estimated 10.6pc by 2030. In a pure market, sugar cane would be the only viable biofuel with a cost of $35 a barrel (oil equivalent). The others are sugar beet ($103), corn ($81), wheat ($145), rapeseed ($209), soybean ($232
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
One definite plus here where I am is that local produce prices are becoming ever more competitive - without changing James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
Keith Addison wrote: The Telegraph article is below. Goldman Sachs has been talking to Lester Brown, it's exactly his line, especially about China. Haha. Don't think Goldman Sachs actually talks to anyone. More like someone there read some of Brown's website. :) It's about agrofuels, not biofuels. That said, it's hard to find an actual case of anyone actually starving because of agrofuels expansion. It's all just assumed, like all the projections Brown and others make. But it's very fashionable to blame biofuels (agrofuels) for whatever might stick, there's solid column-inches in media exposure to be gained, for one thing. Take a closer look and it vanishes. As quite a few recent posts show. Agreed, however, all that said, the prices of feedstocks, regardless of intended use are going up, radically. Personally, I think this is a good thing, but I fear that behind it all, is monsanto et al, just making a play for a drastic increase in market share. Land use for biofuels has shot up from 12m to more than 80m hectares worldwide over six years, says Goldman Sachs. Sounds dire eh? Brazil has 320m hectares [3.2m sq km] of arable land, only a fifth of which is cultivated. Of this, less than 4% is used for ethanol production ... This is not a choice between food and energy. (Brazil's president Luiz Lula) The FAO says the total world agricultural area is 5.0 billion hectares. So the 80m hectares worldwide under biofuels is 1.6% of the total. How can that account for food price rises in the last year variously touted as 10%, 17%, 20%, 43%, double? My point. Retail food prices are indeed soaring worldwide. ExxonMobil's $40.6 billion profits from rising oil prices point rather clearly at one cause - high oil costs, in a globalised food system that depends on fossil-fuel inputs at every stage, that plus corporate profit-taking by the food industry (or perhaps profiteering). The same causes are pushing all consumer prices up, not just food. Apparently world concrete prices are way up too, difficult to explain how it's caused by the evils of biofuels though. Biofuels or not, ag commodity prices probably aren't going to stop rising, nor will oil prices. It's already causing hardship, especially for poorer people, in the industrialised countries as well as the 3rd World. Grow your own. Go local. Best Keith Egg-zactly! This is, here in the west for certain, a good thing. As things go now, where folks are able to access real high quality food products at farmers markets and farm shops, one hears about people complaining about the costs of 'real food'. As one small farmer put it to a person sniffing at the cost of his eggs compared to the supermarket variety, sure, you can buy 3 times the eggs at the supermarket for what I'm charging, but ONE of my eggs contains more nutrition than a dozen of those white balls. Exaggeration? perhaps, but sadly, perhaps not. Seems that small(er) scale to micro scale farming is indeed the answer. And the questions are really big. Garbage in = Oncologist out. Once folks start treating the small farmer with the same respect as their oncologist, and the high quality food itself with the same respect as their pharmaceuticals, well, then you'll see that folks know what's really at stake. I'd love to go on and on about this, but I'll get around to posting anything if I do. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
James Machin wrote: One definite plus here where I am is that local produce prices are becoming ever more competitive - without changing James And what's really ridiculous about the whole concept of peak food is that even a SMALL garden enables people to grow more fresh fruit and vegetables than they can possibly eat. We end up giving away a LOT of what we grow for that reason. (Besides, I grew up eating brown rice and don't really care for potatoes.) robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 06:11:23 James Machin wrote: The Goldman Sachs 'Outlook 2008' report claims that oil production has been flat for 4 years whilst demand has increased. They say that the gap has been plugged by biofuel production - land under bioF production up to 80 million Ha. from 12 m Ha. 6 years ago - displacing food crops. They say that peak oil has morphed into peak food and predict widespread famin in 18 to 36 months. So, peak oil 4 years old, and we're passed peak food? Could be. I reckon we're also passed peak money too! Where will it all end When we are all peaked! regards Doug James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Peak Food
The Goldman Sachs 'Outlook 2008' report claims that oil production has been flat for 4 years whilst demand has increased. They say that the gap has been plugged by biofuel production - land under bioF production up to 80 million Ha. from 12 m Ha. 6 years ago - displacing food crops. They say that peak oil has morphed into peak food and predict widespread famin in 18 to 36 months. So, peak oil 4 years old, and we're passed peak food? Could be. I reckon we're also passed peak money too! Where will it all end James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
Do you have a link to the report, James? I'd like to read it. Z On Feb 18, 2008 12:11 PM, James Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Goldman Sachs 'Outlook 2008' report claims that oil production has been flat for 4 years whilst demand has increased. They say that the gap has been plugged by biofuel production - land under bioF production up to 80 million Ha. from 12 m Ha. 6 years ago - displacing food crops. They say that peak oil has morphed into peak food and predict widespread famin in 18 to 36 months. So, peak oil 4 years old, and we're passed peak food? Could be. I reckon we're also passed peak money too! Where will it all end James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
It appeared in the business section of the UK newspaper The Daily Telegraph on 7 Feb. You could try www.telegraph.co.uk J Do you have a link to the report, James? I'd like to read it. Z On Feb 18, 2008 12:11 PM, James Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Goldman Sachs 'Outlook 2008' report claims that oil production has been flat for 4 years whilst demand has increased. They say that the gap has been plugged by biofuel production - land under bioF production up to 80 million Ha. from 12 m Ha. 6 years ago - displacing food crops. They say that peak oil has morphed into peak food and predict widespread famin in 18 to 36 months. So, peak oil 4 years old, and we're passed peak food? Could be. I reckon we're also passed peak money too! Where will it all end James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8545585184878490822q=future+mankindtotal=884start=0num=10so=0type=searchplindex=0 He says it is planned. He has some good clips of Bush and entourage. Some of it seems a bit over the top but who knows. Kirk James Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Goldman Sachs 'Outlook 2008' report claims that oil production has been flat for 4 years whilst demand has increased. They say that the gap has been plugged by biofuel production - land under bioF production up to 80 million Ha. from 12 m Ha. 6 years ago - displacing food crops. They say that peak oil has morphed into peak food and predict widespread famin in 18 to 36 months. So, peak oil 4 years old, and we're passed peak food? Could be. I reckon we're also passed peak money too! Where will it all end James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080218/3608c602/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peak Food
Here's a text link to an article about the report: http://business.smh.com.au/price-of-oil-is-famine-as-food-plugs-demand/20080208-1r43.html As far as the video - I haven't watched more than about the first 10 minutes, but some of the claims seem a bit far-fetched, as you said. I hope that it's no more than a spook story. Erik On Feb 18, 2008 12:59 PM, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8545585184878490822q=future+mankindtotal=884start=0num=10so=0type=searchplindex=0 He says it is planned. He has some good clips of Bush and entourage. Some of it seems a bit over the top but who knows. Kirk James Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Goldman Sachs 'Outlook 2008' report claims that oil production has been flat for 4 years whilst demand has increased. They say that the gap has been plugged by biofuel production - land under bioF production up to 80 million Ha. from 12 m Ha. 6 years ago - displacing food crops. They say that peak oil has morphed into peak food and predict widespread famin in 18 to 36 months. So, peak oil 4 years old, and we're passed peak food? Could be. I reckon we're also passed peak money too! Where will it all end James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080218/3608c602/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080218/ebff00e3/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
