Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Ken Dunn wrote: When talking to friends, family and others regarding the Earth-friendly practices that we can all include in our lifestyles, I always stumble over quantifying the true price of packaging for consumer goods. Its easy enough to calculate the transportation costs of an avacodo from

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Hakan Falk
Jeromie, Who should have the right to be upset? At 05:11 07/10/2005, you wrote: Ken Dunn wrote: snip Of course, the plastic won't break down in any of our lifetimes yet, its not easy to determine the displacement of a resource when you don't know the inputs. For many (Americans anyway)

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Tom Irwin
Hi Hakan and all, One of the real problems is not having an economic system that accounts for the lack of degradability or environmental consequences of products produced. This is a world wide problem not limited to the U.S. More than10 years ago I worked on a research team to make a

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Bede
with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable resources, Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps! There's also a French company i saw on Beyond 2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components. once again once bought

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Hakan Falk
Hi Tom and Bede, Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner available, we have to produce fuel and plastics etc. from other sources. If all playing on a level field, the possibilities are more equal and the wealth will be more

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Frantz DESPREZ
Bede a écrit : with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable resources, Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps! There's also a French company i saw on Beyond 2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components. once

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread radema
The many projects and technologies that pass or fail to make it into the regulated environment have a common thread. To measure and improve, we must compare apples to apples. An energy credit trading scheme is a stopgap measure consistant with current tech levels. It allows measurable

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Hakan Falk wrote: It is the most wasteful people on the earth, by no comparison. 4+% of the world population, who uses 25% of the world resources. It is not a question of insult, it is the sad truth. To hide behind a hypocritical emotion about insult, instead of put an end to the unfair and

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Keith Addison
with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable resources, Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps! There's also a French company i saw on Beyond 2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components. once again once bought back, it

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread radema
Sorry...need more coffee...previous post should read...Europe has plunged every generation into war WITHOUT US help... Robert -- Original Message -- From: radema [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 06:36:37

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Mike Weaver
If only. We here in US don't seem to learn very quickly. Hi Tom and Bede, Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner available, we have to produce fuel and plastics etc. from other sources. If all playing on a level field, the

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread radema
With all due respect, The USA is a highly visible consumer. Their arrogance and might is right policies are a natural target. We would be remiss to forget their considerable humanitarian contribution (no not war). Europe has plunged every generation into war with US help. Not only is the

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Hakan Falk
Jeromie, I thought that we talked about energy on this list and especially oil. In that case you can go to http://www.bp.com and look at their statistic and reporting, it is regarded as reliable source and generally accepted. You can also look at the works of ASPO or Matt Simmon's on oil

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Hakan Falk
Robert, I do not understand what you mean by trust laws. If you mean the anti trust laws, Reagan got rid of them, during his presidency. Before that, US had this 70% rule to protect consumers from being dependent of a monopoly source. Hakan At 14:36 07/10/2005, you wrote: With all due

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Hakan Falk
Robert, You were right before, now you got it wrong. Now I have to ask you to read up on the world wars and the influence from the US finance powers. Iraq was plunged into the Iranian war by US and was not really successful, so the US occupation got rid of a failing leader. You are right in

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Joe Street
This is so true, and the flip side is that even if we were to get really serious about recycling, it is still only the third R of the three R's Reduce Re-use and Recycle. The area where I live was the first in Canada (maybe north america?) to institute a blue box recycling program for

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Frantz DESPREZ
Hakan Falk a écrit : Robert, You were right before, now you got it wrong. Now I have to ask you to read up on the world wars and the influence from the US finance powers. Iraq was plunged into the Iranian war by US and was not really successful, so the US occupation got rid of a failing

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread radema
Hakan Thanks for the input, its appreciated. In response: The Japanese Government targets a specific industry and supports the top few competitors. Internally the mega structures are Kieretsu-based (thank you MacArthur -a man with far too much glory for his skill level). The Allies needed

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Keith Addison
Sorry...need more coffee...previous post should read...Europe has plunged every generation into war WITHOUT US help... Except this generation and the last one, which the US have plunged into war all over the world all by itself, though they haven't been the only ones it's true. I think you got

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread radema
Sorry all, I have to stand by my statement. Attached is a list of the top 20 wars in terms of military dead sonce WW1. 1 20,000,000 Second World War1937-45 2 8,500,000 First World War 1914-18 3 1,200,000 Korean War 1950-53 4

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Robert Sorry all, I have to stand by my statement. Attached is a list of the top 20 wars in terms of military dead sonce WW1. 1 20,000,000 Second World War1937-45 2 8,500,000 First World War 1914-18 3 1,200,000 Korean War

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Keith Addison
Nice, Joe, thanks! This is so true, and the flip side is that even if we were to get really serious about recycling, it is still only the third R of the three R's Reduce Re-use and Recycle. The area where I live was the first in Canada (maybe north america?) to institute a blue box recycling

[Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-06 Thread Ken Dunn
When talking to friends, family and others regarding the Earth-friendly practices that we can all include in our lifestyles, I always stumble over quantifying the true price of packaging for consumer goods. Its easy enough to calculate the transportation costs of an avacodo from California to