Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Wauw !! Somebody - and not JUST somebody - on this forum writing in real Dutch. Very good Keith. You're not kidding? You're very kind, but I don't think it's real Dutch. It's been a long time, it's a horrible mixture of bad Dutch and even worse Afrikaans. I can remember just enough to see the mistakes without knowing how to correct them. If I can't remember a Dutch word then the Cantonese word comes to mind instead! Can you imagine. But I'm glad you liked it. :-) Beste Keith Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel Dag Pieter Hello, Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to solidify ethanol. You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ). Just use ethanol in stead of water and make strong glue. Velen bedankt, maar in een 3rde Wereld dorpje is wallpaperglue nie so maklik te vind, en jy kan dit ook nie maklik self maak van locally available renewable resources. Wanneer het jy al ooit erger Nederlands dan die gelesen?!! LOL! Maar miskien kan u dit verstaan... Beste wense Keith Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Velen bedankt, maar in een 3rde Wereld dorpje is wallpaperglue nie so maklik te vind, en jy kan dit ook nie maklik self maak van locally available renewable resources. Veel dank, maar in een 3e wereld dorpje is behangplaksel niet zo makkelijk te vinden en je kan dit ook niet makkelijk zelf maken van plaatselijk herbruikbare materialen. Wanneer het jy al ooit erger Nederlands dan die gelesen?!! LOL! Maar miskien kan u dit verstaan... Wanneer heb je zulk slecht Nederlands gelezen ? Maar misschien kun je dit begrijpen. Nee Keith, ik maak geen grapje. Sommige mensen op deze wereld denken dat Nederland de hoofdstad van Denemarken is. Je moet al Nederlandstalig opgegroeid zijn, anders is het erg moeilijk om de taal te leren. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Dag Pieter Hello, Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to solidify ethanol. You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ). Just use ethanol in stead of water and make strong glue. Velen bedankt, maar in een 3rde Wereld dorpje is wallpaperglue nie so maklik te vind, en jy kan dit ook nie maklik self maak van locally available renewable resources. Wanneer het jy al ooit erger Nederlands dan die gelesen?!! LOL! Maar miskien kan u dit verstaan... Beste wense Keith Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Keith Addison wrote: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Also, from Hoagy (chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine): Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Mike TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage. Using firewood doesn't necessarily mean deforestation as often alleged, very often it means local forests are maintained instead. Where there are shortages (very serious shortages on some places) it's usually due more to other reasons. Indoor smoke pollution is probably a bigger problem than energy efficiency, and indeed energy efficiency itself
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Wauw !! Somebody - and not JUST somebody - on this forum writing in real Dutch. Very good Keith. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel Dag Pieter Hello, Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to solidify ethanol. You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ). Just use ethanol in stead of water and make strong glue. Velen bedankt, maar in een 3rde Wereld dorpje is wallpaperglue nie so maklik te vind, en jy kan dit ook nie maklik self maak van locally available renewable resources. Wanneer het jy al ooit erger Nederlands dan die gelesen?!! LOL! Maar miskien kan u dit verstaan... Beste wense Keith Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Keith Addison wrote: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Also, from Hoagy (chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine): Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Mike TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Keith Addison wrote: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Also, from Hoagy (chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine): Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Mike TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage. Using firewood doesn't necessarily mean deforestation as often alleged, very often it means local forests are maintained instead. Where there are shortages (very serious shortages on some places) it's usually due more to other reasons. Indoor smoke pollution is probably a bigger problem than energy efficiency, and indeed energy efficiency itself usually boils down to making the best use of what you've got rather than a matter of comparative btu's or whatever. This bit of a previous message might be of interest: Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves. Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village blacksmith can produce. In a project in Africa, cheap kerosene stoves from the Far East (?) did much better in the target area, without any promotion,
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Hello, Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to solidify ethanol. You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ). Just use ethanol in stead of water and make strong glue. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Keith Addison wrote: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. Also, from Hoagy (chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine): Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Mike TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage. Using firewood doesn't necessarily mean deforestation as often alleged, very often it means local forests are maintained instead. Where there are shortages (very serious shortages on some places) it's usually due more to other reasons. Indoor smoke pollution is probably a bigger problem than energy efficiency, and indeed energy efficiency itself usually boils down to making the best use of what you've got rather than a matter of comparative btu's or whatever. This bit of a previous message might be of interest: Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
HI there Pannirselvam, Interesting to note that jelly solid ethanol has the attention of the UN. Is there anywhere I can extract this literature? Thanks. Jeff MALAYSIA From: Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:22:32 -0300 Hi D Giorchino The mess you have made can be a new dicovery of solid biofuel . jelly solid ethanol has good market as the future biofuel for rural areas as identified by UN. Try to acess about the possbility of mixing your mess with ethanol jelly fuel.Thus the big problem of disposing the mess can be an aportunity to make business. Fell free to have help from this list as all here very good experts Yours truely Pannirselvam P.V Federal university ,Natal.RN Brasil On 8/7/05, DERICK GIORCHINO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Keith More Thanks for you response. I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a difference in my titration #. I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly. But here is where I got into trouble. The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters. As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Hi Derick May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF. but after introducing it to the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so I need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably off by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be having problems. and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no chemist Very few of us are. can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I have been using 2 drops @ 1% phenolphthalein. The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). If you can please help. Thanks Derick You say: The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). The instructions at JtF say: Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Dissolve 1 gm of lye in 1 litre of distilled water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of the cooled oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. -- From: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo See also: More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein pH meters vs phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye Are your scales, measuring equipment and measuring techniques up to scratch? Best wishes Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Probst, Peter Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:44 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Thanks to all who provided sources and altarnatives for the phenolphthalein! Now I can start using the 75+ gallons of WVO that's been sitting around my garage. Pete ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Isn't jelly solid ethanol Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol? It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage. I know there's been a great deal of debate about the energy return of ethanol production here. But no matter what the numbers, it seems clear that when you don't need an energy dense liquid fuel for engines, the most efficient (and easily embraced) supply would involve fast growing woody plants. My impression is that burning biomass provided the best overall return of solar energy. Am I missing the UN's intention here?? Or is this another boondoggle? Taryn On Aug 9, 2005, at 9:13 AM, Jeffrey Tan wrote: HI there Pannirselvam, Interesting to note that jelly solid ethanol has the attention of the UN. Is there anywhere I can extract this literature? Thanks. Jeff MALAYSIA From: Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:22:32 -0300 Hi D Giorchino The mess you have made can be a new dicovery of solid biofuel . jelly solid ethanol has good market as the future biofuel for rural areas as identified by UN. Try to acess about the possbility of mixing your mess with ethanol jelly fuel.Thus the big problem of disposing the mess can be an aportunity to make business. Fell free to have help from this list as all here very good experts Yours truely Pannirselvam P.V Federal university ,Natal.RN Brasil ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno. We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol. MikeTarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't "jelly solid ethanol" Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with methanol?It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage.I know there's been a great deal of debate about the energy return of ethanol production here. But no matter what the numbers, it seems clear that when you don't need an energy dense liquid fuel for engines, the most efficient (and easily embraced) supply would involve fast growing woody plants. My impression is that burning biomass provided the best overall return of solar energy.Am I missing the UN's intention here?? Or is this another boondoggle?Taryn___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Hi Pannirselvam it would be better if it could remain in that stat when it gets hot could be messy if it were in a back pack and melted. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Tan Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 6:13 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel HI there Pannirselvam, Interesting to note that jelly solid ethanol has the attention of the UN. Is there anywhere I can extract this literature? Thanks. Jeff MALAYSIA From: Pannirselvam P.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:22:32 -0300 Hi D Giorchino The mess you have made can be a new dicovery of solid biofuel . jelly solid ethanol has good market as the future biofuel for rural areas as identified by UN. Try to acess about the possbility of mixing your mess with ethanol jelly fuel.Thus the big problem of disposing the mess can be an aportunity to make business. Fell free to have help from this list as all here very good experts Yours truely Pannirselvam P.V Federal university ,Natal.RN Brasil On 8/7/05, DERICK GIORCHINO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Keith More Thanks for you response. I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a difference in my titration #. I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly. But here is where I got into trouble. The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters. As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Hi Derick May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF. but after introducing it to the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so I need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably off by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be having problems. and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no chemist Very few of us are. can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I have been using 2 drops @ 1% phenolphthalein. The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). If you can please help. Thanks Derick You say: The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). The instructions at JtF say: Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Dissolve 1 gm of lye in 1 litre of distilled water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of the cooled oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. -- From: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo See also: More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein pH meters vs phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye Are your scales, measuring equipment and measuring techniques up to scratch? Best wishes Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel
Hi D Giorchino The mess you have made can be a new dicovery of solid biofuel . jelly solid ethanol has good market as the future biofuel for rural areas as identified by UN. Try to acess about the possbility of mixing your mess with ethanol jelly fuel.Thus the big problem of disposing the mess can be an aportunity to make business. Fell free to have help from this list as all here very good experts Yours truely Pannirselvam P.V Federal university ,Natal.RN Brasil On 8/7/05, DERICK GIORCHINO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Keith More Thanks for you response. I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a difference in my titration #. I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost instantly. But here is where I got into trouble. The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior batch that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the toxic mix so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20 liters. As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may have overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil and 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it hard also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75 than the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to jell and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with a glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing of the mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Hi Derick May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots of test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15 gal batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work ... poorly, if at all, and are not recommended by JtF. but after introducing it to the mix I find if I need to add more solution the color will not change so I need to add strip after strip as I add the solution accuracy is probably off by the time I get done P.H. meter a good one I found to be about the same pH meters work well, especially if it's a good one, you shouldn't be having problems. and I have used phenolphthalein and get excellent response but im no chemist Very few of us are. can anyone tell me how much phenolphthalein to use on the test I have been using 2 drops @ 1% phenolphthalein. The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). If you can please help. Thanks Derick You say: The instructions from J.T.F say use 1% phenolphthalein solution (1.0w/v%). The instructions at JtF say: Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Dissolve 1 gm of lye in 1 litre of distilled water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of the cooled oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. -- From: Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo See also: More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein pH meters vs phenolphthalein http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye Are your scales, measuring equipment and measuring techniques up to scratch? Best wishes Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Probst, Peter Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:44 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution Thanks to all who provided sources and altarnatives for the phenolphthalein! Now I can start using the 75+ gallons of WVO that's been sitting around my garage. Pete ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
