Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
Hello Fredy! Simple answer: We're not allowed to do so, since the legal department of T-Systems is not willing to spread the information to the public. Thy don't release any press informations when they are selling or dropping something, they only inform about new customers and takeovers. You're right, the good old nextra days are gone, but we at mhs (together with a few very close friends from the ex nextra team) try to keep this spirit alive. Best wishes, Matthias - Original Message - From: Fredy Kuenzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch Matthias Hertzog wrote: I'm now an official member of this mailing list. Welcome to SwiNOG! Hope you already made a mark in your agenda: http://www.swinog.ch/meetings/swinog7/index.asp ... But first things first... [snip] I hope to have pointed everything out. For additional questions, please contact me. Fair enough. But why don't you state all this on an intermediate website at http://www.nextra.ch/ before forwarding to your own? This would make it clear. I guess many people still don't know that Nextra has passed away. Sad, anyway - remember old days of Swinog #1 ... cute and cosy in a small room at Hotel Alfa ... thanks Phil @ Nextra, you made it all possible. http://www.swinog.ch/meetings/swinog1/index.asp F. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
On Friday 03 October 2003 09:18, Matthias Hertzog wrote: so. In this particular case, the switch helpdesk was not available, all Normaly as an ISP you have a Switch Key Account Manager. I have good experience in the past with this solution, even bulkupdates are possible. Cheers Erich -- * Erich Hohermuth IP Engineer - SolNet (AS 9044) PGPKEY-46A08FCB * pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
Since I got bounces from @nextra.ch, I thought of checking this domain at nic.ch, and surprise surprise: http://www.switch.ch/id/search-domain.html?dom_id=nextra.ch A customer (had a hosting contract with nextra for his domain) told me some week ago that mhs changed his switch password without any notice nor permission. The dns-change wasn't made with a sammelantrag from switch. As I saw, mhs made a reqeust to get a lost password for this domain at switch and then grabbed the switch mail from the customers inbox not very nice from my point of view. greetings nik -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
Christof Roduner wrote: Since I got bounces from @nextra.ch, I thought of checking this domain at nic.ch, and surprise surprise: http://www.switch.ch/id/search-domain.html?dom_id=nextra.ch I wouldn't call this domain grabbing. AFAIK, MHS took over Nextra's nameservers and operates them on behalf of T-Systems Schweiz, which is the successor of Nextra Schweiz. (T-Systems Schweiz is SOLPA, nowadays... complicated...) Nope. T-Systems Schweiz is still T-Systems Schweiz. Only the T-Systems Multilink Division has been sold to SOLPA. When Telenor gave up Switzerland they sold Nextra to Multilink. And now T-Systems has given up Multilink. Yes, I'm confused myself... -- Andre -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
Reading mails from a customers inbox as an ISP is not only not nice - it's not allowed by law if you can prove that fact, you can sue them... Cheers, Viktor On Thursday 02 October 2003 13:17, Nik Hug wrote: Since I got bounces from @nextra.ch, I thought of checking this domain at nic.ch, and surprise surprise: http://www.switch.ch/id/search-domain.html?dom_id=nextra.ch A customer (had a hosting contract with nextra for his domain) told me some week ago that mhs changed his switch password without any notice nor permission. The dns-change wasn't made with a sammelantrag from switch. As I saw, mhs made a reqeust to get a lost password for this domain at switch and then grabbed the switch mail from the customers inbox not very nice from my point of view. greetings nik -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
AW: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
Reading mails from a customers inbox as an ISP is not only not nice - it's not allowed by law if you can prove that fact, you can sue them... AFAIK according Datenschutzgesetz it's for administrative reasons allowed to look into users data (tracking down error and stuff like that) but you are neither allowed to give those informations away nor use them for yourself. -- Kind regards, Roman Hochuli CCNP, CQS Cable GPS-Technik AG Zürcherstrasse 139 8952 Schlieren Switzerland Tel +41-1-7329977 Fax +41-1-7311840 X-NCC-RegID: ch.gps While talking a little bit annoyed about taxes: ...at least it does not make addicted. -- 2002, Andre Wieler -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
RE: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
you can do a 'sammelantrag' without getting or using any customers id/password @ switch. i used this way also to migrate more than 100 domains at once (lets say change technical holder, etc.) but if the looked into the mailbox: not very nice... -steven -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Viktor Steinmann Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch Reading mails from a customers inbox as an ISP is not only not nice - it's not allowed by law if you can prove that fact, you can sue them... Cheers, Viktor On Thursday 02 October 2003 13:17, Nik Hug wrote: Since I got bounces from @nextra.ch, I thought of checking this domain at nic.ch, and surprise surprise: http://www.switch.ch/id/search-domain.html?dom_id=nextra.ch A customer (had a hosting contract with nextra for his domain) told me some week ago that mhs changed his switch password without any notice nor permission. The dns-change wasn't made with a sammelantrag from switch. As I saw, mhs made a reqeust to get a lost password for this domain at switch and then grabbed the switch mail from the customers inbox not very nice from my point of view. greetings nik -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
Roger Schmid wrote: i hope somebody from sSwitcht is a member of this list, at least noone from mhs is on this list. Anyone in contact to them? Maybe they should be pointed to this thread - they might have an explanation. F. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
AW: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
hi matthias thank you for writing an official statement. i hope - as it is for me - that now everything cleared up. greetings steven ps: welcome to swinog ;-) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Auftrag von Matthias Hertzog Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. Oktober 2003 23:57 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch Hi Folks! I'm now an official member of this mailing list. I've got some mails in the past, but those are from the times when nextra.ch domain (and company) was operating a different way than it does today. Thanks to Christof Roduner and Christian Robyr (Ex Nextra) for forwarding messages from SWINOG to me. But first things first... - T-Systems purchased Nextra about 2 years ago. They've migrated the network and took over some leased line customers to their network. - T-Systems informed all ex-nextra customers by letter about the discontinuation of the hosting an messaging services in summer 2002. - mhs took over the hosting and messaging customers by end of 2002 from T-Systems. In fact, we've got some infrastructure and a list of customer addresses. - mhs sent letters (paperwork) to all the customers and informed them about the changes in december 2002. - mhs contacted all hosting customers either by mail and/or phone about the planned migration. - mhs sent mails to all customers still having delegated some domains to ns1.nextra.ch and/or ns2.nextra.ch during january 2003 - may 2003. - mhs requested several technical contacts at www.nic.ch to force a reaction from customers who still have not changed their nameservers to get in position to change nameservers from nsX..nextra.ch to dnsX.mhs.ch. This succeeded in most of tha cases. (100% success on domains delegated primary to those nameservers, 90% for secondary domains. The current situation is: - mhs is still running ns1.nextra.ch and ns2.nextra.ch since about 50 customers still have delegated domains to those servers. This service will be stopped by end of 2003. - mhs is currently (legally and officialy) holder of the domain nextra.ch. We are under contract with T-Systems to continue running the nameservers until end of 2003. - by 1.1.2004, mhs will pass back the domain nextra.ch to the current holder of the Markenrechte of Nextra - Nextra (Schweiz) AG is currently under Liquidation by a bern based trust company. - All ex-nextra customers either have found a new solution for hosting and messaging or hve migrated the installation to our services. (www.mhs.ch). - Mails to @nextra.ch will be bounced with one exception: [EMAIL PROTECTED] will reach me. This account is currently used for testing. - mhs did NOT illegally grabbed the domain name nextra.ch. We did not in the past and will not in the future. I hope to have pointed everything out. For additional questions, please contact me. Best wishes, Matthias Hertzog, [EMAIL PROTECTED] AG http://www.mhs.ch BTW: Christian Robyr, please correct me if i've forgotten anything in my mail. M.H. - From: Fredy Kuenzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:19 PM Subject: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch Since I got bounces from @nextra.ch, I thought of checking this domain at nic.ch, and surprise surprise: http://www.switch.ch/id/search-domain.html?dom_id=nextra.ch F. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
Hi Matthias, I will forward your message to this customer - maybe you can clear this direct with him. As far as I know he's on vacation at the moment and he has nothing to do with wine or so maybe there was a second case? ... Anyway (the reason why this answer sent via swinog): I think grabbing switch-passwords from a customers inbox or mail-queue is never good practics under any circumstances. Switch has a good support-desk with very helpful people and we always got transparent solutions on this way - also in urgent cases. greetings nh - Original Message - From: Matthias Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch Hello Nik! I cannot remember the domain name at the moment, but we had a very unlucky case during the migration of the nextra services. I can clearly remember that case because of the very rude language used by the ex-nextra customer. I think, it was wine dealer or something like that. We've informed all ex nextra customers about the planned shutdown of the old infrastructure. This happened ONE YEAR after all customers have been gekündigt by T-Systems. In the case metioned above, a person from the company mailed to me: plesae do everything you can to avoid a service interruption. Unfortunatly, the person had no passwords for the domain, but i was able to clearly identify him to be in position to give such orders. To prevent mail losses, we've ordered the nic.ch password and grabbed it in our inbound mailserver queue before it got bounced due to unkonwn user. Afterwards, we've changed the TEC-C and modified the DNS after transferring the zonefiles to dns1.mhs.ch and dns2.mhs.ch. After this, another person of the same company changed the switch data to the old nextra servers. I've changed back and so on. I wanted to prevent any mail losses, changed the password at switch and infromed ALL involved persons by mail. Noone replied, even after re-sending my mails a few times. Some time after, one of the two persons sent me a mail with informations, how he want to arrange his hosting. Minutes later, i've sent the new switch password to that person. Since that, i've heard nothing from that company. mhs did NEVER changed the holder informations of a customers domain. One can say, that grabbing the password was illegal. I would not disagree in normal cases. In this case, i was acting on behalf of the customer, so, for me, that's okay. Maybe some lawyers in here can give more informations on that. However, mhs did NOT: - stolen the domain nextra.ch - stolen any domain of any ex-nextra customer. Best wishes, Matthias BTW: Nextra (Schweiz) AG made the mistake to register some domains for customers as Holder=Nextra instead of Holder=Customer. We've figured that out, assured correct payment of the domains and requested several holder changes to the real holder. (Holder=Customer). I think, this fair and correct, the customers loved that service from mhs. Some of them subscribed for hosting services from our company, some of them did not. All's well with that. M.H. M.H. - Original Message - From: Nik Hug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch Since I got bounces from @nextra.ch, I thought of checking this domain at nic.ch, and surprise surprise: http://www.switch.ch/id/search-domain.html?dom_id=nextra.ch A customer (had a hosting contract with nextra for his domain) told me some week ago that mhs changed his switch password without any notice nor permission. The dns-change wasn't made with a sammelantrag from switch. As I saw, mhs made a reqeust to get a lost password for this domain at switch and then grabbed the switch mail from the customers inbox not very nice from my point of view. greetings nik -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
Re: [swinog] Domain grabbing: nextra.ch
Matthias Hertzog wrote: I'm now an official member of this mailing list. Welcome to SwiNOG! Hope you already made a mark in your agenda: http://www.swinog.ch/meetings/swinog7/index.asp ... But first things first... [snip] I hope to have pointed everything out. For additional questions, please contact me. Fair enough. But why don't you state all this on an intermediate website at http://www.nextra.ch/ before forwarding to your own? This would make it clear. I guess many people still don't know that Nextra has passed away. Sad, anyway - remember old days of Swinog #1 ... cute and cosy in a small room at Hotel Alfa ... thanks Phil @ Nextra, you made it all possible. http://www.swinog.ch/meetings/swinog1/index.asp F. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
