Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[Michael H]

And it's important to note that the Copenhagen-Alliance Versification
Specification working group committee includes David Instone-Brewer of
Tyndale House, producers of STEP Bible, which is build on Jsword, and
mentioned elsewhere in this thread.



On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:41 PM Michael H  wrote:

> And, It appears "unspecified" is no longer true for the .vrs files.
>
> https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification
>
> I don't think it's pulled back into Paratext yet, but this is an actual
> "spec" to look at to understand the USFM ... not USFM, but
> Paratext/UBS/SIL/Bible Translation community approach to mapping
> versifications.
>
> https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[Michael H]

And, It appears "unspecified" is no longer true for the .vrs files.

https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification

I don't think it's pulled back into Paratext yet, but this is an actual
"spec" to look at to understand the USFM ... not USFM, but
Paratext/UBS/SIL/Bible Translation community approach to mapping
versifications.

https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification
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Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[Michael H]

And one more point for the primary, original mission that Arnaud Vié
mentioned.  I wrote earlier about an "unspecified versification system" in
Paratext, but did not link to anything.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1aR3BOGKnTJREB0bTeYEukzdcBncACwWb?usp=sharing

Here are my collection of 'example' versification files.  I don't think
anything is copyrighted or restricted information in these, but I also did
not track where these came from, and nothing here should be treated as
finally approved or correct, but rather just examples as to how the
Paratext program maps versifications for parallel display (and in many
cases automatic translation of a text into a different language, and moving
section title points, cross references, etc. from one work to a
dissimilarly versified work..

I consider the paratext method superior, but still flawed in that it needs
a Primary source.  This creates the potential to be disregarded (like OSIS)
because some group or committee fails to affirm the 'primary' source is
"primary", when in fact its usage here isn't about history or theology,
just the lynchpin on which to transmit information across versifications...
I started on a different system which is vastly bigger, more like HTTP
nodes or MAC addresses where there is no "primary" only random named
numbers that are unique.

But when you consider improving parallel display, if you can make sense of
the Paratext method, it's better formed, and in use by1000s around the
world for ongoing scripture translation work, and any work listed with the
Digital Bible Library has this file included (so the mapping is already
available.)


On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 11:57 AM Arnaud Vié 
wrote:

> Hi Peter and Troy, and thanks for the welcome !
>
>
> Thanks Peter for the historical context, it does explain where things come
> from.
> I do have a lot of things to answer though :-)
>
> The SVN site for libsword is the current, not old. It is just that very
>> little changes over long stretches.
>
>
> Indeed, I understand that the libsword SVN is still actively used for
> development. That's why I mentioned it as the least "urgent" thing to
> change in my opinion - as long as it works like this for its main
> contributors.
> I do think a move to git(hub or lab) would be beneficial for the long term
> though - for the usual technical reasons, but also more importantly for the
> visibility of the project and its ability to attract younger contributors
> for long term maintenance, which is always a challenge for open source
> projects.
>
> Jsword is similarly old, largely feature complete and little changes Two
>> big projects use it and contribute back to it.
>
>
> That's where I'll respectfully disagree.
>
> First, "feature complete" is never completely true for an open source
> project : there is always room for improvement and evolution driven by the
> community.
> For example, I recently contributed to the andbible Jsword fork to
> properly support versification mappings for deuterocanonical texts, and I
> aim in the future to provide some support for other kinds of parallels (in
> particular eusebian parallels which is currently absent as far as I know).
> Similarly, once I formalise the OSIS evolution I want to propose for
> modular versifications, and if it gets approved, it will need to be
> implemented in both libsword and jsword.
> So there is in fact a lot of future potential activity to be done on
> jsword - as in pretty much all open source projects. It's just a matter of
> giving a visible and lively place for the community to propose ideas and
> implementations.
>
> Second, I'll argue that you believe it's "feature complete" only because
> the main repo is inactive and unmaintained, thus you've actually lost all
> visibility of how the project is actually used.
> Consider that AndBible, probably the most widely used application based on
> jsword, had to build its own fork to be able to integrate bugfixes (see all
> the bugfix PRs Tuomas tried to open on the main repo since 2019
>  before
> resigning himself to build his own fork), and they're they only ones
> publishing a jsword maven artifact.
> Because the andbible fork is the only one alive and readily usable, it's
> also the one that people actually use for other independant projects (as do
> I in a small project I haven't shared publicly yet, in fact).
>
> But Tuomas, while being a great and proactive android dev, is not a java
> "backend" expert, and not an OSIS/Sword expert. I'm pretty sure he would be
> glad if CrossWire gathered a renewed community around the project to take
> back ownership. Which is what I'm volunteering to help with.
>
> Again, I really mean no offense to anyone with this - in particular to the
> original jsword developer, dmsmith, that did a great work with it until
> 2019.
> I'm worried so much about the status of jsword precisely because I think
> it's a great library, with lots 

Re: [sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?

[Michael H]

Re: Lack of momentum for OSIS.

OSIS as described on wikipedia is owned by a committee including United
Bible Societies, SIL International, and the Society of Biblical
Literature.

However, this team got together and created the version that is available,
then almost completely ignored it, and went back to the SFM tagging system
and then produced USFM, when turned into several more closely related XML
languages, but has become USX. There was in the UBS/SIL Paratext
translation program the ability to produce OSIS output until version 8, but
since about 2016, there is no use or mention of OSIS in Paratext.

A history and analysis of why this is published in Balisage 2021
conference:

https://www.balisage.net/Proceedings/vol26/html/Robie01/BalisageVol26-Robie01.html

Even in 2024, the tagging language USFM remains the "primary" tool to
encode biblical works at almost all the organizations that produced OSIS.
There is no momentum for that committee to ever meet again. But the spec
has holes.

https://gitlab.com/cmahte/osis-users-manual-2.1

I started working on updating OSIS, and in the process received a reply
from someone at ABS or UBS that although the OSIS spec is copyrighted and
does not contain specific verbiage about reuse, I could and should consider
it licensed under creative commons BY-SA. (At the time, I wasn't seeking to
update OSIS, but freely copy from it in creating a successor or fork.)

This means that OSIS is both abandoned and available for adoption by a
successor body.  I've also since moved on from ever producing proposed
changes to it or a fork myself. IF I ever got far enough along to need a
formal spec, it would be extensions USFM or to OpenDocument or more
directly synonymous with that XML.  If you're interested, I'll dig up the
contact information, and pass it along. But I do have a copy re-edited into
USFM (or more specifically a draft version of PSFM... which means the way
tables are built in my text are unusual.) If there is an effort to update.
I can transform my work into LibreOffice Writer format.

I suggest it is time to consider an OSIS 3, or at least an OSIS 2.2 spec
that is owned by a successor organization instead of organizations that
effectively abandoned it.  That's the missing link which would provide a
mechanism to actually make changes to the standard.  People (including me)
keep doing this search and landing at Crosswire Bible society as the best
option for a new owner. But maybe who OWNS can be one of the topics
considered by a committee.

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 9:47 AM Arnaud Vié  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Having dived into the whole crosswire ecosystem recently, I'm at the same
> time impressed at the quality of the tools provided (in particular the OSIS
> standard and the JSword lib, as I've been working in Java), and worried by
> what I perceive as a lack of dynamism around it's development and
> difficulty to contribute.
>
> By "lack of dynamism" I of course don't mean to criticise the time anyone
> spends (as we contribute to a free ecosystem, we all have lives keeping us
> busy elsewhere), but rather to highlight how rough it is for external
> enthusiastic people to join.
> For example, I'd like to contribute evolutions to the OSIS standard around
> versification systems, but I have no idea where to make such proposals, as
> there is only a mailing list dead since 2015
> , a few wiki pages
>  and a few downloadable
> documents  which are supposedly the latest
> version.
>
> I think a lot of that could be improved by making better use of the
> crosswire github project , which is
> nowadays the first contact most young developers will have with these
> crosswire projects.
>
> I'd like to propose a few changes, get your opinions, and volunteer to
> execute them if everyone agrees.
>
>- *Revive the jsword github repository*.
>That includes
>   - Backporting the relevant changes from the andbible fork
>   
>   (excluding android-specific stuff - which I already mostly removed in my
>   last PR there).
>   - Setting up a release process to publish the jar on a maven
>   repository.
>   - Setting up a clear branching model and writing clear contribution
>   guidelines.
>   - Having a team of several people familiar with Java development to
>   review PRs or answer questions in the issue tracker. I obviously 
> volunteer,
>   but more people is always the best.
>
>   - *Create a new Git repository for the OSIS specification*.
>Must contain :
>   - In Git, the OSIS XSD schema, and the functional specification
>   (basically, the contents of the current manual) in markdown or asciidoc
>   format.
>   So that contributions to the standard may be opened as pull
>   requests, reviewed, 

Re: [sword-devel] Catholic versification

[Michael H]

In my limited study of 'Fixing' versification (meaning parallel display
across versification...)

Can I recommend revamp to support an additional 'BOOK' level
versification.  This would pretty much eliminate the need for (yet) another
versification system, if each book rather than module could name its own
versification.

So for Cyrille's example the module is 'catholic' (for all 70ish) books,
but Esther is book versified to 'cath2' or whatever already matches it.



On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 7:00 AM Fr Cyrille  wrote:

> Hello,
> Recently a person interested in the Catholic bible in French told me
> about the mapping problems between Catholic versification and the kjva
> concerning Esther. So I'm bringing up the question of a new Catholic
> versification that could better deal with this kind of problem and at
> the same time incorporate some of the errors in current Catholic
> versifications. I should mention that two versifications for French
> Bibles have been added since my proposal for a new Catholic
> versification, which was made long before these versifications were
> added, and which was not favorably received at the time. In our case,
> the number of Bibles that follow this versification is simply enormous,
> since the majority of Catholic Bibles do. I would also add that the LXX
> versification is not entirely correct. There are no LXX today that put
> 16 chapters to Esther. Ralph's already uses letters to integrate Greek
> passages into the text.
> In fact, Catholic versification simply follows Ralph's. So I suggest
> that we seriously reopen this question with concrete suggestions.
> For my part, the suggestion is simple: convert the numbers in the Greek
> passages into verses and offset the numbered verses in the same
> chapters. I'll copy you on what that might look like.
>
> Br Cyrille___
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Re: [sword-devel] AKJV source.

[Michael H]

FYI:

After searching through many links on the Internet archive, I found a
KJV10.txt file dated March 1, 1999.  While this is still a year later
than "before the start of the AKJV."  it is close enough, and I'm no longer
actively searching.  However, if someone finds KJV10.txt or KJV10.zip dated
before March 1, 1999, Please let me know.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010514150711/http://sailor.gutenberg.org/gutenberg/etext90/


On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 6:22 PM Michael H  wrote:

> I'm looking for specifically the Project Gutenberg Ebook 10... King James
> Bible typed by Michael S. Hart (not me.)
>
> 100% of the changes to this etext between 2003 and 2023 were present in
> the American King James version.  This includes "daugher" for "daughter"
> and other typos that pretty conclusively show the source text for the AKJV
> was originally PG Etext 10. I checked several of these against other source
> texts and my printed 1970s "PTL Counselors Bible" (KJV), and none of these
> errors seem to be anywhere else (but all the other sources were 2015 or
> later...)
>
> https://github.com/BibleCorps/ENG-B-AKJV2018-pd-PSFM/issues/11
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 9:01 AM Matěj Cepl  wrote:
>
>> On Mon Dec 25, 2023 at 6:54 PM CET, Michael H wrote:
>> > Is there a KJV module on a CD image or in an offline repo somewhere
>> > containing the 1995ish version of a KJV module that is known to be
>> sourced
>> > from Project Gutenberg etext 10?  I would like to obtain that to further
>> > bug-hunt the AKJV module.
>>
>> Not a Crosswire module, but would CCEL (https://www.ccel.org) CD
>> from 2001 help? It includes some KJV text among other bibles.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Matěj
>>
>> --
>> http://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, @mcepl@floss.social
>> GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5  BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8
>>
>> To love another person
>> Is to see the face of God.
>>   -- yes, incredibly cheesy verse from the screenplay of the
>>  movie Les Miserables (2012)
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>
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Re: [sword-devel] AKJV source.

[Michael H]

I'm looking for specifically the Project Gutenberg Ebook 10... King James
Bible typed by Michael S. Hart (not me.)

100% of the changes to this etext between 2003 and 2023 were present in
the American King James version.  This includes "daugher" for "daughter"
and other typos that pretty conclusively show the source text for the AKJV
was originally PG Etext 10. I checked several of these against other source
texts and my printed 1970s "PTL Counselors Bible" (KJV), and none of these
errors seem to be anywhere else (but all the other sources were 2015 or
later...)

https://github.com/BibleCorps/ENG-B-AKJV2018-pd-PSFM/issues/11




On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 9:01 AM Matěj Cepl  wrote:

> On Mon Dec 25, 2023 at 6:54 PM CET, Michael H wrote:
> > Is there a KJV module on a CD image or in an offline repo somewhere
> > containing the 1995ish version of a KJV module that is known to be
> sourced
> > from Project Gutenberg etext 10?  I would like to obtain that to further
> > bug-hunt the AKJV module.
>
> Not a Crosswire module, but would CCEL (https://www.ccel.org) CD
> from 2001 help? It includes some KJV text among other bibles.
>
> Best,
>
> Matěj
>
> --
> http://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, @mcepl@floss.social
> GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5  BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8
>
> To love another person
> Is to see the face of God.
>   -- yes, incredibly cheesy verse from the screenplay of the
>  movie Les Miserables (2012)
> ___
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[sword-devel] AKJV source.

[Michael H]

Cyrille found 2 "errors" in short order on the AKJV module... And as a
result I'm bughunting... which means trying to match it back to it's source
to look for what's changed in the KJV that they started with.

I compared The Project Gutenberg 2003 KJV (etext 10) from the CD image to
the current Project Gutenberg KJV etext 10 (9/2023 edition, but they may
have already  updated to remove some all cap words since I contacted them.
Every typo in the Project Gutenberg KJV text in the last 20 years was
present in the AKJV, and I'v updated them. This includes things like ALL of
Psalm 72:1 and Psalm 92:1 were capitalized.   So, I'm fairly sure the
source is the gutenberg text, but it should have forked from Gutenberg in
1995-1997.

I asked Mrs. Engelbrite, and she pointed me to the KJV text that would have
been on crosswire in the mid to late 1990s.

Is there a KJV module on a CD image or in an offline repo somewhere
containing the 1995ish version of a KJV module that is known to be sourced
from Project Gutenberg etext 10?  I would like to obtain that to further
bug-hunt the AKJV module.
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Re: [sword-devel] transChange element

[Michael H]

(I wasn't at the OSIS formation conferences just worked with Bible
translators, so this is about the use of the word, and not necessarily it's
semantic meaning in OSIS.)

"-implied" falls between  a literal (untagged) translation and an "added"
word.  It represents information that is based on words in the original,
that would have been obvious to the original reader, but is specifically
supplied for modern readers.

So for example, In translations that capitalize pronouns "he" when they
refer to part of the Trinity, "-implied" might be used to cover the
capitalization, especially when the reference is not clear to everyone.
The editorial decision is made to "capitalize", but then you get down into
the specifics, and there are places where you can read those pronouns
multiple ways, and various people in the past have already made different
decisions. You have to put a He or a he, and make a choice... but where its
not 100%, maybe adding that tag provides guidance later.  Or in
translations that diminish the use of pronouns and replace them with the
person's name... 'implied' covers this transformation. The words in the
target language come from a word in the original, but more information is
present in the target language at that specific point than was originally
written.

And that's just pronouns.  Any word can have implied information added to
it.

On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 5:42 AM pinoaffe  wrote:

>
> Tobias Klein  writes:
> > So there is another element mentioned in the list on page 85 of the OSIS
> User Manual.
> > The element is implied - what's the meaning of that? The explanation
> > for that element is missing.
>
> I think that that is for marking words that don't have a literal
> corresponding word in the greek/hebrew, but which don't carry any
> additional meaning compared to the original text, as the meaning they
> carry is implied gramatically or from context.
>
> e.g., one could turn the sentence
>
> It was tall and blue.
>
> into
>
> It was tall and it wasblue
>
> This example is of course a bit contrived, but such changes can be
> necessary when translating, and there may be cases where they are less
> obvious
>
> Kind regards,
> pinoaffe
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Where is the source code for individual SWORD modules?

[Michael H]

The source for the AKJV is at (
https://github.com/BibleCorps/ENG-B-AKJV2018-pd-PSFM/tree/master/p.sfm).

However, this is USFM not OSIS.  Someone (Peter Von Kaehne I think) took
this USFM and turned it into the module that is currently on crosswire.
Usually he has put the resulting code into a crosswire or other gitlab
location.

Note that the code is currently p.sfm. To make it purely USFM, the last 4
lines of each book that end with a tilde ~ should be removed.  These lines
are all valid USFM, but may not produce the meaning they have in p.sfm.
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Re: [sword-devel] Export whole Book of Enoch

[Michael H]

For Bible modules, it's fairly simple to do.

For genbooks:

diatheke -b Enoch -f plain -s regex -k .+

reports there are 116 sections, but it doesn't give the text of those
sections. I don't see any other toggles that fill in the text for all
sections.

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 8:03 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> Exporting a module is still a useful method for a user to test a module.
>
> diatheke
> mod2imp
> emptyvss
>
> All useful tools for module testing.
>
> None of them should fail to process a whole module given the correct
> command line parameters - where applicable.
>
> Regards
>
> David
>
> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 13:28, Michael H  > wrote:
>
> The Sword platform is not designed to facilitate this, but rather
> encourages seeking the source used to make the sword module instead of
> decomposing the module into text. If you want the 'whole' document in plain
> text, seek it from the source listed in the books 'about' or configuration
> file.
>
> https://ccel.org/ccel/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM Which is
> not the best way to cite this specific document.
> https://ccel.org/ccel/charles/otpseudepig/otpseudepig has the proper,
> complete download in plain (UTF-8) link. If this isn't the specific
> document you need, the same method should work, or be more specific.
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 6:39 AM Marjan Šavli 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> How can I export the whole Book of Enoch?
>> It should be: diatheke -b Enoch -f plain -k 1-108
>> But this doesn't work.
>>
>> I can only export one chapter at once with:
>> diatheke -b Enoch -f plain -k /Enoch/Section I/Chapter I
>>
>>  Marjan --
>>
>> ___
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Re: [sword-devel] Export whole Book of Enoch

[Michael H]

The Sword platform is not designed to facilitate this, but rather
encourages seeking the source used to make the sword module instead of
decomposing the module into text.  If you want the 'whole' document in
plain text, seek it from the source listed in the books 'about' or
configuration file.

https://ccel.org/ccel/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM Which is not
the best way to cite this specific document.
https://ccel.org/ccel/charles/otpseudepig/otpseudepig has the proper,
complete download in plain (UTF-8) link. If this isn't the specific
document you need, the same method should work, or be more specific.

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 6:39 AM Marjan Šavli  wrote:

>
>
> Hi
>
> How can I export the whole Book of Enoch?
> It should be:  diatheke -b Enoch -f plain -k 1-108
> But this doesn't work.
>
> I can only export one chapter at once with:
> diatheke -b Enoch -f plain -k /Enoch/Section I/Chapter I
>
>   Marjan   --
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Correction for KJV module in 2 Corinthians 1:8

[Michael H]

So, the answer to "why keep the source closed?" is "There's no reason to
talk about it, because it's not actually source?"

This is exactly what I don't understand.

Consider other "midstream content hosting": At the Digital Bible Library:
USX XML source is a long way down the pipe from USFM, but several thousand
scripture works are stored and available with pretty liberal licenses.
Several hundred are available for inspection.

Why would inspection many types of USX be useful?  Why would people want to
see the source USFX and not USFM, (Or the scanse of books that they were
derived from?)

Because software developed for a specific XML is much more robust and less
buggy if a wide range of XML content is used for testing.  And when the XML
is available for inspection, apples to apples comparison between modules is
possible, creating the possibility to understand the code beyond the
specification, and avoid those gray areas where implementation isn't clear.

And when the XML is available publicly, inspection of the code itself
against it's upstream tagged text edition or scanned book edition can serve
to find where issues entered and eliminate them.

So, again, I don't understand why 'hidden' OSIS code is in anyone's best
interest. It would help all the participants on this thread who've
expressed frustration about getting bugs removed if there are good reasons
to hide the OSIS. I think understanding what this assertion means "*such
that only CrossWire volunteers have access."* is a worthy discussion on
this thread, which is about improving the Crosswire KJV module. I don't
understand why inserting demands and claims that open source is the wrong
way to source the KJV. What was the reason for making that assertion? And
simply suggesting we don't discuss it, when the dicussion is 'why can't we
get the KJV done?' and I've suggested that the cause is exactly what you
claim is a given. suggesting "there's no reason to talk about it" doesn't
seem to be finding solutions, but rather to make the process take longer
and keep solutions from being found.
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Re: [sword-devel] Correction for KJV module in 2 Corinthians 1:8

[Michael H]

>
>
> If necessary, it should be hosted in-house under git.crosswire.org *such
> that only CrossWire volunteers have access.*


I've never understood this "hide the source" mentality. It makes no sense,
and seems to compromise the integrity of what crosswire bible society
stands for. The founder and most participants have spent their time and
energy seeking to make scripture in all forms available in all ways without
cost. It simply doesn't fit the ethic to keep the source hidden. Protect it
from vandalism of course. but prevent access to scripture? I just don't get
the reason why.

And I'm pointing this out in this thread that is discussing the slow pace
of change on this 'hidden source' and the continuing existence of bugs in
this source for a reason. Possibly the direct cause of the slow pace of
change and continuing existence of bugs is exactly this reason. That is,
the reason WHY bugs remain is that the source isn't in the light to be
examined and corrected.
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Re: [sword-devel] About estonian bible

[Michael H]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 1:33 PM Fr Cyrille  wrote:

> Hello,
> Do any of you have contacts with the owners of the Estonian bible? I have
> contacted the links I found on the site: https://www.piibel.net/help.html
> but have not had any response. What should I do?
>

When I was doing communication like this for a non-profit, a message that
is sent, but not bounced, should be taken as a good sign.

The most likely cause is lack of skills to reply in the language you sent.
You might try sending a follow up in other languages (Estonian or Russian)
if you have the capability or network of associates to do that. Especially
in Estonia, written English skills are probably not widespread among folks
over 40. That's still a large part of the working population.
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Re: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX

[Michael H]

FYI: based on this thread, I submitted the following as an [enhancement] to
the Bibletime tracker.

If you develop a front end, consider that the 'attic' is only present for
(some) crosswire modules.. and the process of recovering an updated module
isn't exactly user friendly, and could be handled better in All front ends.

- snip -

[ENHANCEMENT] Local Attic #407

Recent LXX "update" included new content, but also apparently bugs. (see
Sword-dev)

It would be NICE if Bibletime locally saved the older versions on update,
then provided a "There is an older version of this module available...
click to revert" functionality for at least a few days, maybe up to about
90. After that keeping files present that aren't used is just bloatware.

While the crosswire attic is possibly available, keeping older versions
present for (90?) days after an update might provide better functionality,
especially in areas where internet is not always available or safe, and the
attic repo isn't really intuitive for someone who finds problems.

- snip -



On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:23 AM pierre amadio 
wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I suppose you should be able to find the 2.5 version in the attic
> repository.
> https://wiki.crosswire.org/Official_and_Affiliated_Module_Repositories
>
> Would it be possible to get more information about the issues you found ?
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] ISV Bible

[Michael H]

Can you say any more about the authors and who has passed and who remains,
and what contact you did attempt?

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 12:02 PM Samuel Smith  wrote:

> Now most of the authors have passed away in the last two years so not
> sure of the project status.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Bible Desktop not displaying in some Linux Window Managers

[Michael H]

What happens when you start the program from within an xterminal in dwm?
What is the error if any? It should at least point you to whether the
conflict is between BD and dwm or java and dwm.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 7:07 PM Gary Bennett  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I currently have Bible Desktop/jsword 1.6 installed on a Linux machine
> running an up-to-date Arch distro with the dwm window manager. I use
> Bible Desktop only occasionally but appreciate the simplicity of the
> interface.
>
> The problem is that Bible Desktop doesn't work under dwm. All I end up
> with is a white screen. The text seems to be on screen because if I move
> the cursor around it changes from a pointer to a hand and I can copy and
> paste text from the screen to an editor. But the screen is simply white
> with no borders, menus or text displaying.
>
> I have tried a variety of other window managers--QTile, i3wm and XMonad.
> Bible Desktop works properly under QTile and i3wm but not under dwm or
> XMonad.
>
> I realise this is perhaps off topic, but can anyone make any suggestions
> as to why Bible Desktop wouldn't work under dwm or XMonad?
>
> Happy to provide more info or screenshots if needed.
>
> Thanks, Gary
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Re: [sword-devel] How to make commentary module

[Michael H]

In addition, there are several raw commentaries currently published.

I'm not tracing back which repo they came from, but I see

augustin
chrysostom
dtn
spurious
tfg


in my rawcom directory. In each of these folders, the files without
extensions are plain text.  You can open them with any editor and inspect
them for variance from your own attempt at module making.  It would be wise
to copy the folder from your local Sword tree first, just to prevent file
corruption causing program crashes. The .vss file is an index. It should
not be zero length if you have content in that testament. I don't know how
to open it for inspection, but someone else may chip in to help with that.
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Re: [sword-devel] How to make commentary module

[Michael H]

This isn't really a "what's wrong", but more of a way to eliminate noise,
so you can find whats wrong:

I'd try building a raw commentary first. Anything that will be listed on a
repository will be remade by the repo maintainer anyway. It will make the
compile faster, so each attempt takes less time... and it may show that's
what's broken already. But once you get a rawcom that works, you can work
on making the compressed build command == compressed module config
separately from dealing with osis to module issues.

DataPath=./modules/comments/rawcom/test
Encoding=UTF-8
ModDrv=rawCom
BlockType=CHAPTER
SourceType=OSIS



On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 9:52 AM Marjan Šavli  wrote:

>
> Hi!
>
> Trying to make commentary module.
> XML validates.
> Osis2mod makes module.
> In Xiphos or Andbible or Bishop there is "TEST" module.
> But none commentary for Gen1, ..., Gen 6. as it is in test.xml.
>
> Prepared also skeleton for whole Bible (Download link
> 
> - 7 days). But problem is the same.
>
> Can you give me a hint what I am doing wrong?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marjan
>
>
> test.xml==
> 
> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace;
>   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance;
>   xsi:schemaLocation="
> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace
> M:/SloKJVA/xml_test/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd">
>
>canonical="true">
> 
> 
> TEST
> Commentary
> TEST_ID
> Licenca: CC BY-NC-ND
> 4.0
> 
> Commentary
> 
> 
>
> 
>   
> 
> annotateRef="Gen.1.1">Blah blah...
>   annotateRef="Gen.1.2">Blah blah...
>   annotateRef="Gen.1.3">Blah blah...
>   annotateRef="Gen.1.4">Blah blah...
>   annotateRef="Gen.1.5">Blah blah...
>   annotateRef="Gen.1.6">Blah blah...
>  
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
> =
>
>
> =test.conf
> [TEST]
>
> Description=Test
> DataPath=./modules/comments/zcom/test
> Encoding=UTF-8
> ModDrv=zCom
> BlockType=CHAPTER
> SourceType=OSIS
> CompressType=ZIP
>
> GlobalOptionFilter=UTF8GreekAccents
> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISHeadings
> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISScripref
>
> TextSource=https://test.net
> DistributionLicense=Public Domain
>
> Category=Commentaries
> OSISVersion=2.1.1
> MinimumVersion=1.5.9
> About=test
> Lang=en
> LCSH=Bible--Commentaries.
> SwordVersionDate=2022-01-08
> InstallSize=2000
> Version=1.0
> History_1.0=Just Initial Release for testing
> 
>
>
> ==Making module==
> C:\temp\sword\osis2mod.exe C:\temp\sword\sword\modules\comments\zcom\test
> C:\temp\sword\test_sword.xml -v KJVA -z
> You are running osis2mod: $Rev: 3431 $
> SUCCESS: C:\temp\sword\osis2mod.exe: has finished its work and will now
> rest
> =
>
>
> =
> Directory of c:\Temp\sword\sword\modules\comments\zcom\test
> 09. 01. 2022  16:22 0 nt.bzs
> 09. 01. 2022  16:2282.460 nt.bzv
> 09. 01. 2022  16:22 0 nt.bzz
> 09. 01. 2022  16:2224 ot.bzs
> 09. 01. 2022  16:22   300.280 ot.bzv
> 09. 01. 2022  16:22 2.398 ot.bzz
> =
> Directory of c:\Temp\sword\sword\mods.d
> 09. 01. 2022  15:03   537 test.conf
> ===
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Re: [sword-devel] Mobile Linux UIs

[Michael H]

The best thing i can think of that's already in distros is Calibre,
specifically the ebook viewer.  It needs epubs though, not Sword modules,
and navigating bibles in epub format is tricky when they're made by
standard conversion. Epub Bibles need backlinks to the book title on all
the chapter breaks, a 1 layer table of contents to books only, then chapter
links inserted at the start of each book. This navigation scheme keeps up
with paper books for every reference except maybe Psalm 119, Luke 1, and
Isaiah 60.

I (may) have a couple examples around if you're interested.

But it has a minimal interface and font settings that are remembered. and
search within book, etc. seems the best candidate without a bunch of
recoding and compiling.

On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 3:49 PM Greg Hellings 
wrote:

> Anbox and Waydroid are both possible on the Pine Phone, but Anbox
> especially folks say is very slow because of the virtualization on the
> hardware. Waydroid is better because it seems to use more of Container
> space. In both cases people say the Pine Phone Pro is fantastic in
> performance with them. But if I can get a native Linux app with a display
> optimized for tiny screens it would be best.
>
> Hmm, for some reason I thought Bible Time Mini had gotten folded into the
> main line BT repo back in the day. Bummer. Wonder how tough it would be to
> get it going with modern Sword and BT code.
>
> --Greg
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021, 15:25 Timmy  wrote:
>
>> I recently tried to run And Bible on anbox, but anbox is too old for
>> current version of And Bible (it's actually webview that is too old and
>> can't update it).
>>
>> With my searching I think I saw people running waydroid on pine phone.
>> Waydroid has much more up-to-date Android versions available. But waydroid
>> did not work with my computer graphics so I have not been able to try that
>> yet.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021, 14:55 Michael H  wrote:
>>
>>> Bibletime mini is/was a separate initiative to make an android version
>>> similar to bibletime.  As far as I know it's completely separate from
>>> Bibletime and largely inactive. It shows available for Android 2.3, last
>>> release was 5 years ago. but while the interface is designed for touch on
>>> small screens, it doesn't have a linuxOS port... just most of the 2012
>>> phoneOS options at the end of the first smartphone war (symbian, windows
>>> mobile, etc.)
>>>
>>> Bibletime desktop has 3 or 4 rows of menus/toolbars at the top of the
>>> screen. Some of them might be disabled, but then the app would be even less
>>> touch friendly... same for the sidebar. It's built for a large screen
>>> format with a mouse pointer. not a touch interface.
>>>
>>> Have you tried andbible via anbox?  (is it possible to compile andbible
>>> to run in linux natively or as a java app in linux?)
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 2:30 PM Greg Hellings 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For my phone I've been moving to my new Pine Phone. For those unaware,
>>>> this is a cell phone that runs mainline Linux and most of the popular
>>>> desktop distributions are available on it - Arch, Fedora, Ubuntu, Manjaro,
>>>> and about a dozen others I don't recall off the top of my head. I'm
>>>> personally driving mine with Fedora.
>>>>
>>>> Which of our apps have the ability to run in a mobile friendly UI but
>>>> on desktop software stacks? The current Pine Phone is very slow (only quad
>>>> Arm A53 cores at 1 GHz), so the full browser experience to bring up a Bible
>>>> in the browser is like going back to 2015. If I could build one of our
>>>> native apps, it would be grand. I think Bible Time has a mobile UI option,
>>>> but I don't know if it is compatible with a desktop stack. Are there any
>>>> others? Is anyone willing to help me get one built?
>>>>
>>>> --Greg
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Re: [sword-devel] Mobile Linux UIs

[Michael H]

Bibletime mini is/was a separate initiative to make an android version
similar to bibletime.  As far as I know it's completely separate from
Bibletime and largely inactive. It shows available for Android 2.3, last
release was 5 years ago. but while the interface is designed for touch on
small screens, it doesn't have a linuxOS port... just most of the 2012
phoneOS options at the end of the first smartphone war (symbian, windows
mobile, etc.)

Bibletime desktop has 3 or 4 rows of menus/toolbars at the top of the
screen. Some of them might be disabled, but then the app would be even less
touch friendly... same for the sidebar. It's built for a large screen
format with a mouse pointer. not a touch interface.

Have you tried andbible via anbox?  (is it possible to compile andbible to
run in linux natively or as a java app in linux?)

On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 2:30 PM Greg Hellings 
wrote:

> For my phone I've been moving to my new Pine Phone. For those unaware,
> this is a cell phone that runs mainline Linux and most of the popular
> desktop distributions are available on it - Arch, Fedora, Ubuntu, Manjaro,
> and about a dozen others I don't recall off the top of my head. I'm
> personally driving mine with Fedora.
>
> Which of our apps have the ability to run in a mobile friendly UI but on
> desktop software stacks? The current Pine Phone is very slow (only quad Arm
> A53 cores at 1 GHz), so the full browser experience to bring up a Bible in
> the browser is like going back to 2015. If I could build one of our native
> apps, it would be grand. I think Bible Time has a mobile UI option, but I
> don't know if it is compatible with a desktop stack. Are there any others?
> Is anyone willing to help me get one built?
>
> --Greg
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[sword-devel] sword mimetype

[Michael H]

A decade or so ago, there was a mozilla plug in which installed the  URL
type sword:// and converted sword://Matt.1.1 into a html page view using a
local instance of a sword repository.

Is this URL type (or something like it) documented anywhere?
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Re: [sword-devel] English transliteration of Greek or Hebrew words

[Michael H]

Tobias, (all)

I don't do mobile development, so if this is beyond the realm of easy
implementation... ignore it.

The limitation of android apps in this area has always been lack of
pointer... which turns into mistaps (mostly caused by fingers 3x th size of
the target). I'd like to see pressure sensitive touch which would work like
the 'hover' functionality in Bibletime... a light touch would pop out a box
with essential part of the definition, and a more firm touch then opens the
full definition either in the main window or a sidebar like area. It's not
exactly like the hover in BT, but touch sensitivity enabled provides a
pretty close functionality. Again, I know most androids now have pressure
sensitivity built in... but I don't know if it's easily accessible as just
a tap.



On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 10:30 AM Tobias Klein  wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> I am still planning to develop that interlinear functionality that I wrote
> about in February, I have not started yet ... but will soon.
>
> The interlinear visualization used by BibleHub is actually nice! I could
> imagine to do something similar in Ezra Bible App.
>
> I am currently not targeting mobile use with Ezra, but certainly tablets
> (Windows and Android) and the user interface is also touch-based. In the
> future we may see an iPad version as well.
>
> You already find a strongs dictionary functionality in Ezra, similar to
> what other frontends are doing, with the typical mouse-over strongs-word /
> dictionary update. But that only works on the desktop due to the mouseover
> limitation.
>
> Focussing more on being touch-friendly is one of my goals for new
> functionality in Ezra. In fact, for me personally my Android tablet has
> become the primary device for this software ... at least for casual study.
>
> I'd also be curious to see screenshots of your work!
>
> I'll be keeping you posted whenever I have something ready to try. I am
> personally not a Greek/Hebrew expert, but nevertheless I enjoy some
> tool-based original language study. I'd be happy about getting feedback
> from users like you in the future!
>
> Blessings,
> Tobias
> On 5/15/21 10:23 AM, Jeff Becker wrote:
>
> Tobias (et al),
>
>
>
> I’ve been developing and using (for my own personal edification) a
> Greek/Hebrew reader that responds to touch/click with English translation,
> Strong’s numbers (with links) and a parsing code (gender, number, case,
> person, etc.)
>
>
>
> I’ve decided to either find something that meets my growing needs or make
> it. But to do so requires data.  The current version is based upon a
> reformatting of a free interlinear using C#, JavaScript, HTML5 and T-SQL
> (MSSQL).
>
>
>
> If you’re working on one I’d like to discuss joining our efforts if our
> goals are compatible.  Otherwise, I’m looking at the possibility of using
> the resources available through the SWORD project as a basis for my efforts.
>
>
>
> My goals are (in no particular order):
>
> -  An easy to use phone, tablet and desktop app (already in
> current version)
>
> -  Touch/click responses by displaying various information
> (lexicography, parsing) (already in current version)
>
> -  Ability to select various reading plans such as canonical
> order, Daniel Wallace’s One Year reading plan, chronological based on
> writing (already in current version)
>
> -  Stored bookmarks (client and server storage shared across
> individual user’s computers) (already in current version)
>
> -  Derived words in common language such as transliterations as a
> memory reinforcement tactic (eg. ‘geo’ – ‘graphy’);
>
> -  Ability to substitute other languages for English translations
> / transliterations;
>
>
>
> I can’t post a link here because I haven’t received permission or reuse
> the source material (BibleHub’s Greek-English and Hebrew-English
> Interlinear).  I am currently the only person using it.  I’ve done so to
> avoid any ethical or legal infringement on the source material.
>
>
>
> If you or anyone else reading this are interested in working together I’d
> be happy to share my relevant code and experience.
>
>
>
> Jeff Becker
>
>
>
> *From:* sword-devel [mailto:sword-devel-boun...@crosswire.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Tobias Klein
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 27, 2021 9:44 AM
> *To:* SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
> *Subject:* [sword-devel] English transliteration of Greek or Hebrew words
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I am planning an *interlinear view component* for Ezra Project and as
> part of that I would like to show English transliterations of Greek or
> Hebrew words.
>
>
>
> I found these JavaScript/TypeScript based packages, which could be useful:
> https://github.com/charlesLoder/greek-transliteration
>
> https://github.com/charlesLoder/hebrew-transliteration
>
>
>
> Do you know of any other solutions out there?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Tobias
>
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Re: [sword-devel] English transliteration of Greek or Hebrew words

[Michael H]

You wrote: -  Ability to select various reading plans such as
canonical order, Daniel Wallace’s One Year reading plan, chronological
based on writing (already in current version)

Can you share a screenshot showing how that's implemented?  is it a
forward/back button that works like a bookmark ... taking you to the next
point, or a menu selection, or are you displaying only the sections for
each reading?

Specifically, I'm at 85% reproducing a Harmonized NT which provides a
narrative sequence and also provides alternate readings as annotations
(footnotes). If your 'reading list' can take a list of verses that includes
section titles and a list of verses that are annotations, maybe I can
provide your app data for a harmonized Bible (I have an
Harmonized/Chronological Old Testament blocked out to follow the NT
methodology, but it's maybe 5% along it's production path.)
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Re: [sword-devel] SWORD Virtual Coffee/Tea

[Michael H]

And you can use it through the web on a computer,  or on your phone via the
app. That is, no app required for a computer... just a facebook acct.

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 7:49 PM Michael H  wrote:

> Facebook messenger has a video meeting mode... it worked pretty well..
> better than zoom in my opinion.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 7:38 PM Michael Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>> I have Skype and Zoom. I haven't tried Bluejeans, and am too cheap to try
>> it when there are good alternatives, unless someone else can pay and host
>> the meeting. Skype is free and available for Linux, Mac, Windows, iOS,
>> iPadOS, and Android. Zoom has a free version that is good for meetings up
>> to 40 minutes, or longer if one person has a paid account (US$149.90/year)
>> and is also very cross-platform.
>>
>> I recommend installing Skype, unless someone already has a paid Zoom
>> account.
>>
>>
>> On 4/16/21 10:58 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>> > Would ZOOM be better for all ?
>> >
>> > I guess only 3 of us have BlueJeans installed.
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 21:53, ref...@gmx.net > ref...@gmx.net>> wrote:
>> >> Sorry, I don't have Skype.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
>> autocorrects.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>  Original Message 
>> >> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] SWORD Virtual Coffee/Tea
>> >> From: Tobias Klein
>> >> To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
>> >> CC:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Those who want to participate on Sunday, April 18th at 9pm CEST,
>> please send me your Skype ID via email. I will then set up a Skype group.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >> Tobias
>> >>
>> >> Am 9. April 2021 17:00:27 schrieb Tobias Klein <
>> cont...@tklein.info>:
>> >>
>> >>> The most-popular option is currently Sunday, April 18th with 7
>> votes so far. We’ll probably go for that, unless additional votes change
>> the picture.
>> >>>
>> >>> Best regards,
>> >>> Tobias
>> >>>
>> >>>> Am 05.04.2021 um 18:10 schrieb Tobias Klein > >:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Why don't we have a virtual coffee/tea some time soon?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Would anyone be free for a Skype/Zoom/... call one of the next
>> weekends?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Here is a doodle poll to see who can do it at what time during
>> the next Saturdays/Sundays.
>> >>>>
>> https://doodle.com/poll/dmpn874um28wuhm5?utm_source=poll_medium=link
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I suggest 9-10 PM CEST, which translates to 3-4 PM in the US
>> east coast and a bit earlier further west ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Blessings,
>> >>>> Tobias
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ___
>> >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> >>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>> >>>
>> >>> ___
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>> >>
>> >> ___ sword-devel mailing
>> list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
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>> unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>>
>>
>> --
>> signature
>>
>> Aloha,
>> */Michael Johnson/**
>> 26 HIWALANI LOOP • MAKAWAO HI 96768-8747*• USA
>> mljohnson.org <https://mljohnson.org/> • eBible.org <https://eBible.org>
>> • WorldEnglish.Bible <https://WorldEnglish.Bible> • PNG.Bible <
>> https://PNG.Bible>
>> Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp/Telephone: +1 808-333-6921
>> Skype: kahunapule • Telegram/Twitter: @kahunapule • Facebook:
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>>
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Re: [sword-devel] SWORD Virtual Coffee/Tea

[Michael H]

Facebook messenger has a video meeting mode... it worked pretty well..
better than zoom in my opinion.


On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 7:38 PM Michael Johnson  wrote:

> I have Skype and Zoom. I haven't tried Bluejeans, and am too cheap to try
> it when there are good alternatives, unless someone else can pay and host
> the meeting. Skype is free and available for Linux, Mac, Windows, iOS,
> iPadOS, and Android. Zoom has a free version that is good for meetings up
> to 40 minutes, or longer if one person has a paid account (US$149.90/year)
> and is also very cross-platform.
>
> I recommend installing Skype, unless someone already has a paid Zoom
> account.
>
>
> On 4/16/21 10:58 AM, David Haslam wrote:
> > Would ZOOM be better for all ?
> >
> > I guess only 3 of us have BlueJeans installed.
> >
> > David
> >
> > Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 21:53, ref...@gmx.net  ref...@gmx.net>> wrote:
> >> Sorry, I don't have Skype.
> >>
> >> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
> autocorrects.
> >>
> >>
> >>  Original Message 
> >> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] SWORD Virtual Coffee/Tea
> >> From: Tobias Klein
> >> To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
> >> CC:
> >>
> >>
> >> Those who want to participate on Sunday, April 18th at 9pm CEST,
> please send me your Skype ID via email. I will then set up a Skype group.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Tobias
> >>
> >> Am 9. April 2021 17:00:27 schrieb Tobias Klein  >:
> >>
> >>> The most-popular option is currently Sunday, April 18th with 7
> votes so far. We’ll probably go for that, unless additional votes change
> the picture.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Tobias
> >>>
>  Am 05.04.2021 um 18:10 schrieb Tobias Klein  >:
> 
>  Hi all,
> 
>  Why don't we have a virtual coffee/tea some time soon?
> 
>  Would anyone be free for a Skype/Zoom/... call one of the next
> weekends?
> 
>  Here is a doodle poll to see who can do it at what time during
> the next Saturdays/Sundays.
> 
> https://doodle.com/poll/dmpn874um28wuhm5?utm_source=poll_medium=link
> 
>  I suggest 9-10 PM CEST, which translates to 3-4 PM in the US east
> coast and a bit earlier further west ...
> 
>  Blessings,
>  Tobias
> 
>  ___
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> >>>
> >>> ___
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> >>
> >> ___ sword-devel mailing
> list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
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> >
> >
> >
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>
> --
> signature
>
> Aloha,
> */Michael Johnson/**
> 26 HIWALANI LOOP • MAKAWAO HI 96768-8747*• USA
> mljohnson.org  • eBible.org 
> • WorldEnglish.Bible  • PNG.Bible <
> https://PNG.Bible>
> Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp/Telephone: +1 808-333-6921
> Skype: kahunapule • Telegram/Twitter: @kahunapule • Facebook:
> fb.me/kahunapule 
>
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Re: [sword-devel] KaiOS, Firefox OS

[Michael H]

The github page for zefanja shows 6 years of aging.

https://github.com/zefanja/biblez-ng


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 6:16 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> Interesting observations, Peter.
>
> It was way back in December 2013. I searched the archives for FirefoxOS
> (without the space).
>
> In the email thread, Stephan mentioned what now redirects to this
>
> https://zefanja.github.io/biblez-ng/app/
>
> The Module Manager is now very slow.
> It never completes the egg-timing.  Abandon-ware???
>
> The last email from Stephan was dated Jun 26, 2017
> Subject: CORS API
> and was in response to Simon Biggs, who made only a fleeting appearance in
> the mailing list in December 2016 and shortly after that.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Friday, 26 March 2021 09:57, ref...@gmx.net  wrote:
>
> > Years ago we had a couple of people here on the list who worked on HTML
> 5 apps for , I think Firefox OS. Firefox Os was , unsurprisingly, a Linux
> system, which equally unsurprisingly went nowhere, or so it seemed.
> >
> > Recently I stumbled over the fact that Firefox has actually made a
> resurgence in form of KaiOS, which apparently is making huge inroads in
> both India and Africa. In India it is the second system, at around 11% ,
> rising, of the market acc Wikipedia and Android (at 79%, falling). In Sub
> Saharan Africa it is taking over the market of J2ME phones (where we had an
> app for)
> >
> > The current top phone for that market is called the Nokia 8210 or so
> which goes on Amazon for around £49. It can get jailbroken and can run a
> non-spyware version of KaiOS called GerdaOS. 256mb RAM and 4Gb ROM is the
> spec of that. But KaiOS is open to app submissions and actively encourages
> this. Whatsapp etc e.g. are on that. So jailbreaking might actually not be
> necessary other than to allow initial sideloading of an app.
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > Are those who worked on Firefox OS still active here on the list?
> >
> > Could Bishop run on a system like this?
> >
> > What other HTML5 based apps did we have over the years passing by here?
> There were a few, I think, also something for another phone operating
> system which was promising but got nowhere. SlideOs or some such.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
> autocorrects.
> >
> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] ISO language codes

[Michael H]

Hi David,

The various language tables are lists.  They come together by established
rules: BCP-47.

If you read BCP 47 it makes sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IETF_language_tag (link to the spec in the
footnotes.)



On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 5:23 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> Hi Jamie,
>
> One use is to support a language tree structure in the IntallMgr UI for
> some front-end apps.
>
> Xiphos & PocketSword are examples of such.
>
> And Bible - on the other hand - doesn’t present such a tree structure.
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 08:59, Jamie  wrote:
>
> The Sword config file contains an ISO language code.  Is anyone able to
> tell me what this gets used for (and more specifically, whether there is
> any requirement as to whether this should be a 2-character code or a
> 3-character one)?
>
> (In fact I see IANA now have a new registry of codes which supersedes the
> 2-char and 3-char lists, but it looks as though this merely mandates the
> use of the old 2-character codes where available, and 3-character
> otherwise.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> ‘Jamie’ Jamieson
>
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Standalone works

[Michael H]

The more advanced works like "Bible Hermeneutics"... yeah that's a good fit
for some current sword repository. If I ever get around to uploading ebooks
of that, sword is on my radar.

However, the master plan I envision is a complete enough library that
Bible literacy is self-sustaining.  Not only college level works, but works
for all reading levels everything from basic literacy to works for learning
impaired.  I publish other works like Kindergarten lessons  (K-12 Sunday
school lesson books from the New York Diocese of the Anglican Church circa
1910.)

While I'd like to be able to have these in a sword front end so the
scripture references can be available on a small screen format, with easy
options to get back to the lesson...

 I don't see this wider list would fall into "core" Sword needs, or be
useful taking up slots in the currently unsortable list of "other works"
that the Sword library system offers. Someone looking at potentially
downloading Sword, or looking from their Bible on phone "what else can I
read"... they  won't see gradeschool sunday school lesson books and think
"hey I want to study the bible with that." But if I list Sword as an output
on a complete sunday school curriculum for all grades, then some teacher
might see it and say, "Hey I can load that into sword and don't have to
switch between apps on my phone to read the scripture references."

And while I'm publishing English works now, my ultimate goal is that these
(the lessons for gradeschool ages/reading levels) are translated into many
languages. And an interface like sword with it's already pretty deep
library and offline capability is right inline with the ultimate goal...
but the library for 'other' works as it is just doesn't work.. and as I
described, I don't think it needs to... the works should point people to
Sword apps as an option... and where it makes sense the app should provide
adult level study works as an option in the library.


On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 4:35 PM Greg Hellings 
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 4:22 PM Michael H  wrote:
>
>> re: Install Sword Files
>>
>> (Is/Can) a file extension for standalone Sword files be assigned?  No
>> change to the current format within the zip file, but a unique file
>> extension instead of .zip would allow filesystem handlers to be able to
>> sent the files into the programs on download, or doubleclick.
>>
>
> The engine has no support for wrangling .zip files. I thought I heard
> rumor of a front end that did, but I wouldn't swear to it
>
>
>> The other half of this request: Is there any existing program that
>> handles linked files on startup/passover in this way: tread ".swd" files
>> like a .zipped module?
>>
>
> If any app has support for those zipped files it *might* be Xiphos? But
> please don't quote me on that.
>
>
>> I'd like to produce standalone works (non-scripture study materials) that
>> link to scripture.  Actually I already am producing these... they are just
>> currently in pdf form only. I'd like to produce them for sword, but "books"
>> as a single category doesn't seem to be able to handle the library I'm
>> building... It makes more sense to me to offer the works as an option on a
>> library, rather than reproduce the library in an expanded sword repo.
>>
>
> Any reason to not distribute each collection as a separate repository and
> offer the files in the same way they are now?
>
> --Greg
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[sword-devel] Standalone works

[Michael H]

re: Install Sword Files

(Is/Can) a file extension for standalone Sword files be assigned?  No
change to the current format within the zip file, but a unique file
extension instead of .zip would allow filesystem handlers to be able to
sent the files into the programs on download, or doubleclick.

The other half of this request: Is there any existing program that handles
linked files on startup/passover in this way: tread ".swd" files like a
.zipped module?

I'd like to produce standalone works (non-scripture study materials) that
link to scripture.  Actually I already am producing these... they are just
currently in pdf form only. I'd like to produce them for sword, but "books"
as a single category doesn't seem to be able to handle the library I'm
building... It makes more sense to me to offer the works as an option on a
library, rather than reproduce the library in an expanded sword repo.
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Re: [sword-devel] Just got some new Bible translation licenses

[Michael H]

hooray!

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 4:59 PM Michael Johnson  wrote:

> Greetings friends!
>
> I just got a large set of new Scripture distribution licenses from
> Wycliffe Bible Translators, Inc. for eBible.org, including distribution on
> the eBible.org repository. I will be therefore stress testing front ends'
> ability to find a desired translation among over a thousand translations
> soon.
>
> Sorry, not sorry. ;-)
>
> --
> signature
>
> Aloha,
> */Michael Johnson/**
> 26 HIWALANI LOOP • MAKAWAO HI 96768-8747*• USA
> mljohnson.org  • Phone: +1 808-333-6921 • Skype:
> kahunapule
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Roman number converter

[Michael H]

I replied privately to Fr Cyrille's question how to make jedit macros work
by mistake.

Here's the "howto" in case anyone later seeks to use this "script".

$sudo apt install jedit

Then run jedit at least once.

$jedit

Then put this file in .jedit/Macros

$cp AV_Fix_Roman_to_Decimal.bsh ~/.jedit/Macros/AV_Fix_Roman_to_Decimal.bsh

Then load your text into jedit, and select on the menu "Macros" --->
AV_Fix_Roman_to_Decimal

This specific script looks for lower case roman numerals that terminate
with a dot and a space.  This prevents the most false positives, but leaves
roman numerals that have OCR issues (roman numbers that terminate with
commas or nothing, and those that don't have a trailing space.) However, I
found this got me to 98% done, and had nothing I had to change back, where
more aggressive finds tended to over convert and I had to revert items from
roman numbers back to letters inside parts of words.

But it will at least give you something to start from for your use case.

Jedit that comes with Ubuntu (I'm still on 18) is very slow with large
files. The developers claim to have fixed it with jedit 5.6, but I haven't
seen success at speeding up when I tried preview builds of 5.6 (yet).

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 11:44 AM Fr Cyrille  wrote:

>
>
> Le 20/09/2020 à 15:53, Michael H a écrit :
>
> I do for jedit.
>
>
> https://github.com/Avante-Vangard/Evangard/blob/master/Jedit/Macros/Evangard/AV_Fix_Roman_to_Decimal.bsh
>
> It's for circa 1900 scripture references where lower case roman pretty
> much uniformly represents chapter numbers.
>
> Wow! This is interesting! But can you explain how to use? I'm Ubuntu user.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 8:44 AM Fr Cyrille 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Do you know or have any script to convert roman numbers in a text to
>> arab numbers?
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Roman number converter

[Michael H]

I do for jedit.

https://github.com/Avante-Vangard/Evangard/blob/master/Jedit/Macros/Evangard/AV_Fix_Roman_to_Decimal.bsh

It's for circa 1900 scripture references where lower case roman pretty much
uniformly represents chapter numbers.

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 8:44 AM Fr Cyrille  wrote:

> Hello,
> Do you know or have any script to convert roman numbers in a text to
> arab numbers?
>
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Re: [sword-devel] mailing list move (slightly)

[Michael H]

But... it's going to cause gopher links to fail if you remove the www.

There are still -3000 users in the world using gopher. (that's a negative
number.)

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 6:36 AM Troy A. Griffitts 
wrote:

> Our mailing lists are currently anchored to www.crosswire.org. With the
> deprecation of 'www' over the past decade, we are attempting to move
> each list to simply 'crosswire.org'.  This will mean that accessing
> listinfo and archives will no longer be at:
>
> https://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> but soon at:
>
> https://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Please let me know if you find problems when access the lists after we
> finish the migration in a few hours.
>
> Hope you are all having a great start to your week!
>
> Troy
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Ethiopian Amharic Bible

[Michael H]

I find the same website in many places, but they all fail.  It appears that
the whole website https://www.biblesociety-ethiopia.org/ is not
functioning. Likely the email does work when the site does.

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 8:22 AM Tuomas Airaksinen <
tuomas.airaksi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone have a clue how to contact Ethiopian Bible Society
> to obtain possible distribution permission for Amharic Bible?
>
> Their email in https://amharic.bible/ does not work.
>
> --
> T: Tuomas
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Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

[Michael H]

I tried the license in Bibletime 3.0, and it fails to authorize.

I've tried to authorize the NA28 on Alkitab Bible Study 4.0 (Build
20200510) and it fails to authorize.

I haven't figured out how to install the latest Xiphos yet (on an
Ubuntu 18.04 system running Cinnamon desktop... still waiting the 20.04 to
drop.) The version I have it seemed to authorize (it never said
'successful' or 'failed' that I saw, just removed the authorization box
after a long time.) But then shows no verse text.

On my Linux Desktop and my Mac Desktop, I don't put my full credentials
into the login user profile (usually just my last initial or less than the
complete name.) Could this be causing a registration error?  I've never
seen any user setup on Bibletime or any Sword program, but I did note that
the license is obviously trying to look like it's based on my name. I
didn't see any warning about what it would validate against, but then it's
been 30 plus years since my German was tested beyond yes or no.

In Bishop, it works and I don't see any issues.


On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 3:27 PM Troy A. Griffitts 
wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Our online study tools have some linkage to the NTVMR.
>
>
> http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all=KJV=TR=Treg=NASB
>
> Click on a word, then click: show textual evidence.
>
> It also has the Manuscript Coverage tab which gets its data from Münster,
> as well. That tab has a nice slider on the right to adjust the data by
> century. Hover over a cell and you'll get details with direct links into
> the NTVMR at for the witness and taken directly to the chapter.
>
> I don't know of other desktop apps who has added any integration, but
> Bishop's code is really simple here and would act as a good example:
>
> See: the method in verseStudy:
> variantGraph
> witnessStudy
> alignmentTable
> dECMApp
>
> Those will give you all the functions available from Bishop. witnessStudy
> sounds like the one you're after.
>
> Regarding the NA28, I believe Bibletime reported things working well and I
> heard Karl was releasing (released?) a new version of Xiphos which should
> work too.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Troy
>
>
>
>
> On June 1, 2020 1:04:42 PM MST, Michael H  wrote:
>>
>> Apparently BibleWorks fell apart last fall. Bibleworks had features
>> similar to Bishop where from an open verse at least some manuscript images
>> were available for view directly to that verse. This made it popular with
>> Biblical Criticism folks.
>>
>> In a facebook group dedicated to Bible Criticism (reading the
>> manuscripts, developing a 'critical text') the Question was posed 'what to
>> use besides Bibleworks?' I mentioned the NA28 is available for licensing to
>> open on Crosswire apps, and I mentioned that Bishop has a direct tie in to
>> the new testament manuscript room.
>>
>> 1. Is there any guidance as to when any app (Eloquent, Alkitab,
>> Bibletime) that runs on Macos will be able to open NA28?
>>
>> 2. Is there any plan to expand the 'view witnesses' feature in Bishop to
>> any desktop app?  Is it already available in some app?
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:24 PM Tom Sullivan  wrote:
>>
>>> Y'all:
>>>
>>> I finally got around to getting NA28, having had NA26 and 7 for a long
>>> time. I downloaded a key and Xiphos appears to have put it in the conf
>>> file correctly - it matches my downloaded text.
>>>
>>> But xiphos displays no text, only chapters and so on
>>> Bibletime asks for a key each time, but displays the key, then crashes
>>> on OK.
>>> BibleDesktop also shows no text.
>>>
>>> Any ideas anyone?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> --
>>> Tom Sullivan
>>> i...@beforgiven.info
>>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>>>
>>>
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>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] NA28 shows no verses

[Michael H]

Apparently BibleWorks fell apart last fall. Bibleworks had features similar
to Bishop where from an open verse at least some manuscript images were
available for view directly to that verse. This made it popular with
Biblical Criticism folks.

In a facebook group dedicated to Bible Criticism (reading the manuscripts,
developing a 'critical text') the Question was posed 'what to use besides
Bibleworks?' I mentioned the NA28 is available for licensing to open on
Crosswire apps, and I mentioned that Bishop has a direct tie in to the new
testament manuscript room.

1. Is there any guidance as to when any app (Eloquent, Alkitab, Bibletime)
that runs on Macos will be able to open NA28?

2. Is there any plan to expand the 'view witnesses' feature in Bishop to
any desktop app?  Is it already available in some app?

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:24 PM Tom Sullivan  wrote:

> Y'all:
>
> I finally got around to getting NA28, having had NA26 and 7 for a long
> time. I downloaded a key and Xiphos appears to have put it in the conf
> file correctly - it matches my downloaded text.
>
> But xiphos displays no text, only chapters and so on
> Bibletime asks for a key each time, but displays the key, then crashes
> on OK.
> BibleDesktop also shows no text.
>
> Any ideas anyone?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Localisation of front-end apps

[Michael H]

It seems Bibletime also uses transifex.

It sure seems like there's a lot of duplication here.. is it possible to
somehow produce a Crosswire UI translation table instead of 8-10 app
translation tables?

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 2:34 PM David Haslam  wrote:

> The *transifex* figure of *0%* strings translated for *English (United
> Kingdom)* seems rather bizarre to me.
>
> Even if *And Bible* were deemed to have been written in *English (United
> States)*, that would still make little sense.
>
> And we know that our friend *Martin Denham* is British.
>
> Even so, it's also apparent that many major languages have less than *70%*
> as a score, with even *Spanish* having now dropped just below this
> threshold.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Friday, 29 May 2020 16:54, Michael H  wrote:
>
> AND Bible has a translation matrix that seems to have momentum.
>
> https://www.transifex.com/mjdenham/andbible/
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:35 AM Karl Kleinpaste 
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/29/20 11:19 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>>
>> How do you propose that our software, none of which is developed
>> commercially and none of the maintainers of which speak or read/write these
>> languages, go about acquiring localization strings for those languages?
>>
>>
>> A long time ago, it was proposed that Xiphos be driven for translation by
>> some facility on launchpad with which I'm unfamiliar.  As far as I'm aware,
>> not a single new translation resulted from this.  Several of the existing
>> translations are simply decaying slowly over time as the code changes;
>> every time a new dialog or warning or label is added that no one
>> translates, the translations get worse.  I have no idea how to induce
>> would-be translators to enter and take part, even though one of Xiphos'
>> Help selections is an explicit invitation for such translators.
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Re: [sword-devel] Localisation of front-end apps

[Michael H]

AND Bible has a translation matrix that seems to have momentum.

https://www.transifex.com/mjdenham/andbible/


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:35 AM Karl Kleinpaste 
wrote:

> On 5/29/20 11:19 AM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>
> How do you propose that our software, none of which is developed
> commercially and none of the maintainers of which speak or read/write these
> languages, go about acquiring localization strings for those languages?
>
>
> A long time ago, it was proposed that Xiphos be driven for translation by
> some facility on launchpad with which I'm unfamiliar.  As far as I'm aware,
> not a single new translation resulted from this.  Several of the existing
> translations are simply decaying slowly over time as the code changes;
> every time a new dialog or warning or label is added that no one
> translates, the translations get worse.  I have no idea how to induce
> would-be translators to enter and take part, even though one of Xiphos'
> Help selections is an explicit invitation for such translators.
> ___
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Re: [sword-devel] The Digital Bible Library(R) ??? What do you think?

[Michael H]

The way I read Matej's original message: he's reporting that the
publisher's of the CzeB21 (or similar) on DBL have suggested Crosswire
publish the Crosswire CzeB21 module to the DBL, because the crosswire
module is an improvement over what's on the DBL. Which implies the original
publisher wants the crosswire module in USX form either to use it
themselves or to provide to folks who are asking for the equivalent entry
on DBL to be improved.

Is there an easy reliable map from OSIS -> USX? That's the real request
here (for a single module specifically).

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 6:12 PM Michael Johnson  wrote:

> I contribute some Bible translations to the DBL. If there are any in there
> that were submitted by "eBible.org" with problems, please let me know,
> specifically, what the problems are to correct them. I also get Bible
> translations from the DBL when they are licensed for free distribution.
> However, if there is a better quality source than the DBL, I would use
> that, instead. Just being in the DBL doesn't necessarily make a text
> perfect, in spite of the many checks that are required before submitting
> them.
>
> There is an old Czech Bible translation which I recently corrected the
> text encoding in, with the help of a volunteer who can read Czech, on the
> DBL at
> https://app.thedigitalbiblelibrary.org/entries/public_domain_entries?type=text
> . If you update from there, from eBible.org, or from what you already have
> makes no difference to me, as long as you pay attention to quality in
> providing God's Word to people in the languages they understand best.
>
> On 5/24/20 10:54 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> >
> > Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I think Matěj is suggesting that the
> publisher of the CzeB21 is telling us that our next module update of the
> CzeB21 should come from their text they have uploaded to the DBL.
> >
> > And Matěj is saying that he thinks their text in the DBL is much worse
> than than what we are current using:
> >
> > TextSource=biblion.cz
> >
> > Maybe I am wrong here, but trying to help the communication along.
> >
> > Troy
> >
> >
> > On 5/24/20 1:41 PM, ref...@gmx.net wrote:
> >> They have not understood what DBL is good for, which us something
> entirely different than CrossWire.
> >> DBL exists to allow easier sharing between publishing ministries. No
> "end users" involved.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
> autocorrects.
> >>
> >>
> >>  Original Message 
> >> Subject: [sword-devel] The Digital Bible Library® ??? What do you think?
> >> From: Matěj Cepl
> >> To: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> >> CC:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> what do you think about DBL (https://thedigitalbiblelibrary.org)?
> >> Publishers of CzeB21 felt that our module could be replaced by
> >> their work for DBL (which I don’t think is very good, their
> >> equivalent of CzeBKR is the ancient version of incorrectly
> >> digitised incorrect version).
> >>
> >> Are there any plans to cooperate with DBL?
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Matěj
> >> --
> >> https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz
> >> GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8
> >>
> >> The truth is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore
> >> be treated with caution.
> >> -- Albus Dumbledore
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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>
> --
> signature
>
> Aloha,
> */Michael Johnson/**
> 26 HIWALANI LOOP • MAKAWAO HI 96768-8747*• USA
> mljohnson.org  • Phone: +1 808-333-6921 • Skype:
> kahunapule
>
>
>
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[sword-devel] language (IANA 4646 and IANA 5646)

[Michael H]

Hi,

I'm seeking to differentiate English from itself.

And in chasing it back to specs, I'm at IANA 4646/5646 and stuck in the
mud. IANA4646/5646 was previously IANA RFC3066 and IANA RFC1766.

https://www.iana.org/protocols  - See the "language tags" section, starting
with the last item RFC4646 in that section.

It seems that there's IANA logic in Crosswire. But the wiki only mentions
639 specs. It would be nice to see the full IANA RFC4646 is supported. IANA
now includes script and dialect definitions, which especially for ebible
seem appropriate to include into the standards for conf files, possibly at
least for excluding incompatible modules.

What I want to do is segregate BASIC English at multiple levels of
complexity from English and American.  However IANA also has Early modern
English (1500-1850) and Oxford English categories that may be of
interest, But I'm unclear how "British" English is separate from "Oxford"
English.

*Stuck in the mud.*

But the registry seems to be JSON? and doesn't exactly sort out language
from macro language from subtag language from language extensions... It's
just a whole bunch of building blocks for full language definitions. Does
anyone have a pointer on how to get an directory of language tags (The
fully worded Lang-Script-Location-sublang-extention-private form, and not
jsut the peices of ) s from this registry? Is there an IANA validator ?

It seems to be complete, and the backbone the internet is built on, and
it's living (current file is dated 5/12/2020), and I'd rather be getting
complete tags from a lookup than trying to piece them together from
the parts myself.

*PS. English From itself: *

As it stands, these are the codes for sorting English. I'm probably abusing
"region" a bit, but this list should allow for compatibility to existing
sorting while at the same time allow for enhanced automatic translation in
the future.
1. Old English : ang
2. Middle English : enm
3. Early Modern English : enm-GB-emodeng (OR?) en-GB-emodeng
=== (British) English ===
4. English : en OR English : en-GB OR 4a. English (Oxford) : en-GB-oed
5. Accessible English : en-001-basiceng (??)
6. Basic (English) : en-001-basiceng
7. Core (English) : en-150-basiceng (??)
8. Developmental (English) : en-154-basiceng (??)
Easy English : ??
=== American (English) ===
American (English) : en-US
Restricted English : en-019-basiceng
Special[ized] English : en-021-basiceng (??)
Transitional English : en-US-basiceng (??)
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Re: [sword-devel] I give up

[Michael H]

On Ubuntu, I've gone to PPA version for LibreOffice... which is a newer
version than was released under Ubuntu 18 LTS. However, it's not as easy to
go to PPA for sword apps because there are more interactions with
dependencies between the sword engine, gnome, etc.

Back in 2002 to 04 time frame:  I was trying to build for palmOS, and ran
into this dependencies won't line up, i need multiple minor revisions of
the same thing to make everything work.  I and ended up getting somebody to
"staticly compile" apps for me on the linux side, so my work on palm
wouldn't be falling into dependency gap. It increases the size of the
package, but no longer depends on anything outside the package. In today's
environment of massive amounts of RAM and disk space, i don't see why any
'application' on linux doesn't do this... pulling in the libraries and
having an extra copy of them makes them far more stable, and it makes them
run quicker.  It does consume more memory and disk space, but the days when
there was any risk of running out of ram or disk space on desktops are into
double digits gone by.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 4:39 PM Greg Hellings 
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 4:28 PM Tom Sullivan  wrote:
>
>> Greg:
>>
>> The repositories do not contain the latest versions. For example, the
>> Debian Buster repository presents Xiphos 4.1, not the latest 4.2.
>>
>
> 1) This is the benefit and curse of Debian. It refuses to let new versions
> of packages in that are not bugfix and ONLY bugfix. Nothing with new
> features at all is allowed into a stable/released version of Debian. It's a
> benefit to users who need the stability (read: server administrators and
> people who develop software for running on those stable versions of Debian)
> but it's a terrible experience for end users. If you're using Debian
> anything (other than sid, their testing release) for an end-user desktop,
> then you're going to have a bad experience.
>
> 2) This is, again, an issue with the distro, and not with Crosswire or
> Xiphos. There is nothing we can do to affect upstream's release cadence and
> rules. Now, if the Xiphos project had enough developer manpower to maintain
> patches to the 4.1 series as well as continue development towards 4.2, then
> maybe we'd be able to get a 4.1.1 and 4.1.2 into old Debian versions.
> That's what large projects do (like Debian itself), but we just don't have
> the developer bandwidth to maintain multiple branches on any of our
> software. But none of our software is intended for server, long-lived
> boxes, either. It's all end user focused stuff.
>
>
>> That is how I ended up reporting bugs that had been fixed. It is a wide
>> problem; I mention Xiphos, not as a bad example, but because I happened
>> to remember the version numbers.
>>
>
> The same would be true of Sword. 1.8.1 is not just a bugfix release of the
> 1.8 series. It introduced some minor new functionality so, technically, it
> would not have been permitted into the Debian repository if anyone was
> checking closely. This is just how we handle our software, again, because
> we lack the manpower to keep multiple development streams flowing.
>
> I would, again, submit that your issue is actually with your chosen
> distribution. Its documentation appears to be inadequate, and it's lulled
> you into using a distribution that's not targeting your use case. You might
> try running Fedora (or Ubuntu and not staying on LTS versions) which have
> much more generous update policies. I can tell you, for instance, that
> Xiphos compiles very nicely on current Fedora versions with a few very
> simple commands. I happen to know this because I maintain both our Xiphos
> CI process and the packages in the repositories for Xiphos. Now, I haven't
> updated the packages to 4.2.1 yet, for Xiphos, because I was busy helping
> with the CI and the release of 4.2.1, but due to the CI I know that
> compiling for Fedora 32 will be a breeze.
>
> Compiling for Ubuntu is a little more of a challenge, because of the
> missing dependencies, but Caleb is working on create a dedicated repository
> on Ubuntu's infrastructure just for that. And Caleb, myself, Dom, and Karl
> are all working to resolve those issues so that, in the future, a 4.3 or
> 4.4 will be able to make it back into the Debian repos and eventually into
> the Ubuntu "universe" repositories.
>
> So maybe give us a shot, still, on a distro that's meant for you? :)
>
> --Greg
>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Tom Sullivan
>> i...@beforgiven.info
>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>> -
>>
>> On 5/13/20 5:21 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:57 PM Tom Sullivan > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > Y'all:
>> >
>> > First, I recognize that as a writer and long retired developer and
>> > engineer (and thus obsolete) that in terms of technical issues, I am
>> > way
>> > out of my league with all you C++ programmers and experts.
>> >
>> > Second, I want to 

Re: [sword-devel] Chapter descriptions

[Michael H]

Yes, the AKJV chapter indexes use the original KJV chapter index (a 1708
copy specifically,) but I wordsearched the wordlist in the AKJV appendix.

But if I did it again, I'd mark them up with links (\xt ... \xt*). This
tag's use in this context is new to USFM 3, and I didn't catch it until
recently when there was an issue about \xt being allowed outside of \x ...
\x* on the  u2o code... but if I were starting AKJV today, I'd mark them
like the note about attributes on \xt (the one showing Russian Synodal.)
 That won't convert from USFM yet, but it's on the roadmap for u2o.py .

https://ubsicap.github.io/usfm/notes_basic/xrefs.html#xt

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 1:58 PM DM Smith  wrote:

> In the AKJV link you gave, line 11 is:
>
> \cd 1 Elimelech driven by famine into Moab, dies there. 4 Mahlon and
> Chilion, having married wives of Moab, die also. 6 Naomi returning
> homeward, 8 dissuades her two daughters in law from going with her, 14
> Orpah leaves her, but Ruth with great constancy accompanies her. 19 They
> two come to Bethlehem, where they are gladly received.
>
> Is that what you are calling a chapter index?
>
> David and I have been wondering how we should mark those up in OSIS for
> the KJV 1769.
>
> I think that chapter also has titles.
>
> In Him,
> DM
>
> On May 9, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Michael H  wrote:
>
> Reading the list of provided tags, these chapter descriptions should be
> marked ".index" when they provide reference information, and ".summary"
> where they do not.  That is, the original KJV1611 has chapter indexes.  The
> original Douay Rheims Challoner has Chapter summaries. The recent update to
> the CPDV includes chapter summaries. The AKJV update includes Chapter
> indexes (which is ready, but I haven't heard from Peter on how to proceed.)
>
> CPDV with chapter summaries:
>
> https://gitlab.com/cmahte/cpdv/-/blob/master/usfm/08-RUT-ENG%5BB%5DCPDV2009%5Bpd%5D.p.sfm
>
> AKJV with chapter indexes:
>
> https://github.com/BibleCorps/ENG-B-AKJV2018-pd-PSFM/blob/master/p.sfm/ENG%5BB%5DAKJV2018%5BPD%5D08-RUT.p.sfm
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 10:51 AM DM Smith  wrote:
>
>> See the wiki!!!
>> https://wiki.crosswire.org/Osis2mod#Handling_of_Introductions.2C_Titles_and_Inter-Verse_Material
>>
>> DM
>>
>> On May 9, 2020, at 2:14 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
>>
>> Discussion starter
>>
>> OSIS has no dedicated element specifically for a chapter description.
>>
>> These are not section titles per se but they come before verse 1.
>>
>> In printed Bibles, they are typically in italics and are never in bold.
>> Usually centred and often contain verse numbers that could be thought of as
>> references to locate the text described following. They can flow onto more
>> than one line in pages with two columns of text. In some editions these are
>> allowed to be full page width rather than column width. The text size is
>> never larger than verse text.
>>
>> The Blayney 1769 Oxford edition of the KJV has such chapter descriptions.
>>
>> How best to mark these ?
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
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Re: [sword-devel] Chapter descriptions

[Michael H]

Reading the list of provided tags, these chapter descriptions should be
marked ".index" when they provide reference information, and ".summary"
where they do not.  That is, the original KJV1611 has chapter indexes.  The
original Douay Rheims Challoner has Chapter summaries. The recent update to
the CPDV includes chapter summaries. The AKJV update includes Chapter
indexes (which is ready, but I haven't heard from Peter on how to proceed.)

CPDV with chapter summaries:
https://gitlab.com/cmahte/cpdv/-/blob/master/usfm/08-RUT-ENG%5BB%5DCPDV2009%5Bpd%5D.p.sfm

AKJV with chapter indexes:
https://github.com/BibleCorps/ENG-B-AKJV2018-pd-PSFM/blob/master/p.sfm/ENG%5BB%5DAKJV2018%5BPD%5D08-RUT.p.sfm



On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 10:51 AM DM Smith  wrote:

> See the wiki!!!
> https://wiki.crosswire.org/Osis2mod#Handling_of_Introductions.2C_Titles_and_Inter-Verse_Material
>
> DM
>
> On May 9, 2020, at 2:14 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> Discussion starter
>
> OSIS has no dedicated element specifically for a chapter description.
>
> These are not section titles per se but they come before verse 1.
>
> In printed Bibles, they are typically in italics and are never in bold.
> Usually centred and often contain verse numbers that could be thought of as
> references to locate the text described following. They can flow onto more
> than one line in pages with two columns of text. In some editions these are
> allowed to be full page width rather than column width. The text size is
> never larger than verse text.
>
> The Blayney 1769 Oxford edition of the KJV has such chapter descriptions.
>
> How best to mark these ?
>
> Best regards
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
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Re: [sword-devel] Versification Mapping

[Michael H]

If a ThML or OSIS genbook references a specific version (KJV Psalm 23:6),
but the installed versions don't include KJV, and the user wants to see it
in russynodal, would this functionality help? That is, does this table rely
on the installed modules? or is it built in a way that references for some
versions are already built in (and if so where do i find them, specifically
to mapping references from both KJV versification and and vulgate/DRC
versification.
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Re: [sword-devel] Status of OSIS?

[Michael H]

The reason I'm not just using markdown for everything is that all these
works have references. And it all comes down to how to handle those
references.

ThML scripture references include the attribute "scripRef" which describes
a specific work for the reference, but I'm not aware that ThML has anything
like a "versification" awareness.  So you can accurately specify a
reference to the ESV2011 Psalm 23:6, but if the reader doesn't have the ESV
loaded, and they do have the Douay Rheims Challoner Revision, how would
that reference be handled? Does the click take them anywhere near where the
author of the book intended them to get to?

Psalm 23:6 isn't always Psalm 23:6.. It might be Ps. 23:6, or Ps. 23:7, or
Ps. 24:6 or Ps. 24:7. Since it is ambiguous, it's incomplete. and
incomplete shouldn't be allowed. As far as I can tell ThML isn't designed
to deal with versification confusion. Is there a convention or solution for
this (a master table of values that provides the mapping from 'ThML
scripRef version' to 'versification'?

OSIS has versification awareness:  OSIS at least has the versification
named in the work, and the versification value should be available at every
scripture reference, either by inheritance, or explicitly.

And that's the core reason that OSIS represents a better solution (to me.)
I'm not saying versification as I've described is supported in front ends
properly, but I am saying I can be specific to  the versification of the
reference in each work, making it possible for front ends to work.


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:55 PM Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:

> On 5/5/20 1:36 PM, Michael H wrote:
>
> it's the only option listed for genbooks in the howto section
>
>
> Obligatory "ThML for everything." :-/
>
> I've never produced an OSIS module, but a quick check says I've produced
> 89 ThML modules.  And there's some new ones I'm due to produce (BIBdraft
> and BSBdraft need to be updated/obsoleted, since the final datasets were
> released.)
>
> Seriously, there's nothing stopping you from using any SourceType= that
> you like.
>
> (Yes, yes, I know...All For OSIS and OSIS For All.)
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Re: [sword-devel] Status of OSIS?

[Michael H]

Greg,

OSIS is the best choice for genbooks.  In fact, on the wiki (
wiki.crosswire.org) it's the only option listed for genbooks in the howto
section. I do understand that OSIS for scripture doesn't look like OSIS for
genbooks, and tools designed to convert scripture may not be well suited to
convert non-scripture into OSIS. Which is why i'm seeking all the tabular
information from the spec.

What's your recommendation for genbooks that contain a lot of scripture
references (and I want to make those live links).





On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 3:09 AM Greg Hellings 
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 1:07 PM Michael H  wrote:
>
>> I've got 40 works and growing that I've been meaning to look at creating
>> Sword Modules. All of these are genbooks. Almost 100% currently are works
>> by Andrew Murray (but the list is much bigger.)
>>
>> But, as I try to make sense of the OSIS spec, I'm facing a 2006 spec in
>> not very well done PDF, and another one with comments, and an xslt file,
>> and a mountain of comments on the wiki that span from outright errors, to
>> support gaps, to wishlist.
>>
>
> The only official place for OSIS stuff is in the XSLT.
>
> Also, if you're looking at genbooks, you mostly shouldn't be looking at
> OSIS. That's really only applicable to actual scriptural material or
> possibly commentaries. But it realy fits best in line with things that
> conform to a canonical book.chapter.verse scheme.
>
> --Greg
>
>>
>> What is the status of OSIS? Is there a draft or official source, or even
>> Crosswire source that we can at least fix typos to? I've started one, just
>> to turn Appendix F into a real table... but as I read through the wiki, now
>> it seems I'm going to have to process everything to be able to trust what
>> I'm reading, and it makes sense that I should be dropping the result
>> somewhere more official than my google drive.
>>
>> If we have permission to host the OSIS spec, do we have permission to
>> bugfix it (at least the spelling gaps, and fixing the tables of information
>> to be tabular?)
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Re: [sword-devel] Status of OSIS?

[Michael H]

The Short answer about the OSIS spec tho

For now, I've been coding the PDF -> text -> USFM intending to ultimately
convert it to either markdown or OSIS for longterm maintenance. markdown if
UBS maintains it, and OSIS if it's maintained at Crosswire.

But my work in progress is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12TMgc_h4DWCWWjZ3B6dBOoynvyzMp4q-/view?usp=sharing

I intend to get it to paragraphs with character styling, and the images
present. At that point it can turn into USFM, or OSIS, or Markdown. and
once a long term direction for ownership and maintainer becomes clear, the
right place to land it into a repo should be obvious and easy.

But... does anyone have contact with Patrick and could query him for the
source?  If not, does anyone have contact with Jeff Klassen and could ask
him or have enough knowledge already to know that UBS won't have anything
like source code for OSIS manuals?


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:24 PM Michael H  wrote:

> 1. What I mean by 'encoding' a copy (for my own use originally, but after
> trying to find the list of corrections... i'm on this thread thinking the
> work needs to be shared.)
>
> Problem:
> The PDF has issues when you try to copy tabular information.. it was not
> generated to be reused digitally at all.. random text sequencing is
> present. (at least for me using both Adobe PDF REader and Ubuntu default
> PDF reader on Ubuntu 18.04, but I remember this from my windows days 12
> years ago.
>
> My Personal Use:
> I need those tables to become data tables for programming.  I 'code' in
> spreadsheets as much as possible. So, this morning I started trying to
> squeeze the lemon. And just like everyone, I run into text integrity
> issues, and thought this isn't working well enough, I need to find the
> source text. Query 1 was to Patrick Durasau, but the email in the spec is
> non-functional.  I traced him til 2013 when he was let go as the document
> manager of  OASIS (of OpenDocument/OpenOffice.) But while he crafted the
> text, he wasn't the owner. American Bible Society holds the copyright, so
> the logical first step is to query the guy managing USX and USFM about it.
> But even before that, the only live document on the web seems to be from
> crosswire (and ebible too... ) so that led me to this thread asking
> a. Does crosswire have ownership of the OSIS spec now? (can we initiate
> changes, maintain it?)
> b. does a project to at least bugfix the OSIS spec already exist?
>
> I think I've seen enough to understand that niether is true, so the
> logical next step (unless someone who was involved directly in 2006 can
> correct me) is to ask Jeff Klassen at UBS if there is source available from
> UBS, and what would we need to be able to become the maintainers or primary
> contributors to a project if they want to continue owning it.  However,
> sending that email when I've tried to draft it, I come across speaking for
> crosswire, which again prompted me to create this thread.
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 2:49 PM DM Smith  wrote:
>
>> Can you clarify what you mean by “I’m encoding the entire spec for
>> storage in a source form….”?
>>
>> What has happened so far is that we’ve been responding with the 2006
>> 2.1.1 version of the OSIS Spec. We host the file at
>> https://crosswire.org/osis/OSIS%202.1.1%20User%20Manual%2006March2006.pdf.
>> If I remember correctly, the PDF is generated from a different document to
>> which we don’t have access. If we wish to fix and improve that document, I
>> think we should see if we can formally take responsibility for it by
>> contacting Patrick Duruasau.
>>
>> Short of that we’ve been documenting shortcomings in the wiki.
>>
>> We do require valid OSIS. There have been bugs and shortcomings in the
>> schema. I’m the pumpkin keeper of that and have made a few changes that are
>> agreeable to this mailing list. We’ve attempted to document that in the
>> wiki. One of the considerations is whether the suggested change works with
>> how the SWORD and JSword engines understand the spec.
>>
>> You are right that the wiki is not issue tracker and gets harder to
>> understand as more gets added to it. David and I have tried to have the
>> wiki on OSIS be an addendum to the spec. And guidance on how to build a
>> SWORD module using it.
>>
>> Do you have a suggestion on to get from where we are to where you think
>> we should be?
>>
>> In Him,
>> DM
>>
>> On May 4, 2020, at 3:12 PM, Michael H  wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>> That page you refer to is the problem that created this email.
>>
>> The page you refer to shouldn't exist like it does.. that information
>> should be going onto a problem 

Re: [sword-devel] Status of OSIS?

[Michael H]

1. What I mean by 'encoding' a copy (for my own use originally, but after
trying to find the list of corrections... i'm on this thread thinking the
work needs to be shared.)

Problem:
The PDF has issues when you try to copy tabular information.. it was not
generated to be reused digitally at all.. random text sequencing is
present. (at least for me using both Adobe PDF REader and Ubuntu default
PDF reader on Ubuntu 18.04, but I remember this from my windows days 12
years ago.

My Personal Use:
I need those tables to become data tables for programming.  I 'code' in
spreadsheets as much as possible. So, this morning I started trying to
squeeze the lemon. And just like everyone, I run into text integrity
issues, and thought this isn't working well enough, I need to find the
source text. Query 1 was to Patrick Durasau, but the email in the spec is
non-functional.  I traced him til 2013 when he was let go as the document
manager of  OASIS (of OpenDocument/OpenOffice.) But while he crafted the
text, he wasn't the owner. American Bible Society holds the copyright, so
the logical first step is to query the guy managing USX and USFM about it.
But even before that, the only live document on the web seems to be from
crosswire (and ebible too... ) so that led me to this thread asking
a. Does crosswire have ownership of the OSIS spec now? (can we initiate
changes, maintain it?)
b. does a project to at least bugfix the OSIS spec already exist?

I think I've seen enough to understand that niether is true, so the logical
next step (unless someone who was involved directly in 2006 can correct me)
is to ask Jeff Klassen at UBS if there is source available from UBS, and
what would we need to be able to become the maintainers or primary
contributors to a project if they want to continue owning it.  However,
sending that email when I've tried to draft it, I come across speaking for
crosswire, which again prompted me to create this thread.



On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 2:49 PM DM Smith  wrote:

> Can you clarify what you mean by “I’m encoding the entire spec for storage
> in a source form….”?
>
> What has happened so far is that we’ve been responding with the 2006 2.1.1
> version of the OSIS Spec. We host the file at
> https://crosswire.org/osis/OSIS%202.1.1%20User%20Manual%2006March2006.pdf.
> If I remember correctly, the PDF is generated from a different document to
> which we don’t have access. If we wish to fix and improve that document, I
> think we should see if we can formally take responsibility for it by
> contacting Patrick Duruasau.
>
> Short of that we’ve been documenting shortcomings in the wiki.
>
> We do require valid OSIS. There have been bugs and shortcomings in the
> schema. I’m the pumpkin keeper of that and have made a few changes that are
> agreeable to this mailing list. We’ve attempted to document that in the
> wiki. One of the considerations is whether the suggested change works with
> how the SWORD and JSword engines understand the spec.
>
> You are right that the wiki is not issue tracker and gets harder to
> understand as more gets added to it. David and I have tried to have the
> wiki on OSIS be an addendum to the spec. And guidance on how to build a
> SWORD module using it.
>
> Do you have a suggestion on to get from where we are to where you think we
> should be?
>
> In Him,
> DM
>
> On May 4, 2020, at 3:12 PM, Michael H  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> That page you refer to is the problem that created this email.
>
> The page you refer to shouldn't exist like it does.. that information
> should be going onto a problem ticket system. (Think the 'issue tracker' on
> the USFM 3 list.  It's searchable and the status of most items is clear,
> and anything already acted on is already on the official documentation
> pages.)
>
> That collection of pages in its current form provides little information.
> it's not sorted by status of investigation/implementation, nor by the
> spec's organization, but rather by the impression of the author as to it's
> nature.  It seems to be a collection of writings, some of which describe
> real problems that have been acted on already, some that describe
> misspellings (but can safely be ignored for module creation.), and some
> that fit into "wishlist" meaning even if they're in the 'bug' category and
> actually bugs, they aren't affecting what happens today. Each writing in
> the wiki will have to be processed before I can code. I can't see any clear
> status marker present so I can sort the already dones from the wishlist.
>
> THATS what I'm suggesting/working toward.  I'm encoding the entire spec
> for storage in a source form, so that implemented bugfixes can be updated
> into the spec. We should not have to go through megabytes of text to find 3
> misleading characters in the spec that

Re: [sword-devel] Status of OSIS?

[Michael H]

David,

That page you refer to is the problem that created this email.

The page you refer to shouldn't exist like it does.. that information
should be going onto a problem ticket system. (Think the 'issue tracker' on
the USFM 3 list.  It's searchable and the status of most items is clear,
and anything already acted on is already on the official documentation
pages.)

That collection of pages in its current form provides little information.
it's not sorted by status of investigation/implementation, nor by the
spec's organization, but rather by the impression of the author as to it's
nature.  It seems to be a collection of writings, some of which describe
real problems that have been acted on already, some that describe
misspellings (but can safely be ignored for module creation.), and some
that fit into "wishlist" meaning even if they're in the 'bug' category and
actually bugs, they aren't affecting what happens today. Each writing in
the wiki will have to be processed before I can code. I can't see any clear
status marker present so I can sort the already dones from the wishlist.

THATS what I'm suggesting/working toward.  I'm encoding the entire spec for
storage in a source form, so that implemented bugfixes can be updated into
the spec. We should not have to go through megabytes of text to find 3
misleading characters in the spec that will break every module someone
trying to follow the spec will run into. I've seen enough in the wiki that
I'm pretty sure there's at least on issue listed there that is likely to be
in that class, but I'm going to have to sort through each and every
sentence on each and every page to find them all.



On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 1:25 PM David Haslam  wrote:

> Have you looked at our Wiki page?
>
> OSIS 211 CR
>
> It was even edited again today!
>
> The Bible Technologies Group has not met for years & the original website
> went AWOL.
>
> It may well be the case that CrossWire is the only remaining de facto
> maintainer of OSIS.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 19:07, Michael H  wrote:
>
> I've got 40 works and growing that I've been meaning to look at creating
> Sword Modules. All of these are genbooks. Almost 100% currently are works
> by Andrew Murray (but the list is much bigger.)
>
> But, as I try to make sense of the OSIS spec, I'm facing a 2006 spec in
> not very well done PDF, and another one with comments, and an xslt file,
> and a mountain of comments on the wiki that span from outright errors, to
> support gaps, to wishlist.
>
> What is the status of OSIS? Is there a draft or official source, or even
> Crosswire source that we can at least fix typos to? I've started one, just
> to turn Appendix F into a real table... but as I read through the wiki, now
> it seems I'm going to have to process everything to be able to trust what
> I'm reading, and it makes sense that I should be dropping the result
> somewhere more official than my google drive.
>
> If we have permission to host the OSIS spec, do we have permission to
> bugfix it (at least the spelling gaps, and fixing the tables of information
> to be tabular?)
>
>
>
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[sword-devel] Status of OSIS?

[Michael H]

I've got 40 works and growing that I've been meaning to look at creating
Sword Modules. All of these are genbooks. Almost 100% currently are works
by Andrew Murray (but the list is much bigger.)

But, as I try to make sense of the OSIS spec, I'm facing a 2006 spec in not
very well done PDF, and another one with comments, and an xslt file, and a
mountain of comments on the wiki that span from outright errors, to support
gaps, to wishlist.

What is the status of OSIS? Is there a draft or official source, or even
Crosswire source that we can at least fix typos to? I've started one, just
to turn Appendix F into a real table... but as I read through the wiki, now
it seems I'm going to have to process everything to be able to trust what
I'm reading, and it makes sense that I should be dropping the result
somewhere more official than my google drive.

If we have permission to host the OSIS spec, do we have permission to
bugfix it (at least the spelling gaps, and fixing the tables of information
to be tabular?)
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Re: [sword-devel] Bishop 1.4.0 and SWORD Utility Modules

[Michael H]

I like PT Serif and PT Sans because they have a wide coverage in Latin, and
Cyrillic, including many minority languages. These fonts also have
complimentary narrow and caption faces that are handy for proper
typesetting, and a pretty well done kerning table, which really helps for
extended reading and pushing the font as small as possible.

The Font with the best unicode coverage in Latin that I like the best is
EBGaramond. (mated with Ysabeau for Sans.) But this is a tall font, and for
screens that's not the most accepted way to view. (Phone screens today can
(almost always) handle it, but the low res has created an expectation of
short and fat letters, not tall letters.)

Another very good unicode coverage font for latin text is Garava (
http://www.softerviews.org/Fonts.html ) It's shaped better for screens.
I've wanted to use the included illuminated capitals, but I don't get as
much time for development as I'd like. It's a good choice to include as an
alternative, but I wouldn't recommend it for an ONLY choice.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 10:13 PM Michael Johnson  wrote:

> On 3/19/20 4:41 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> > Does anyone have a special place in their heart for a favorite font they
> > would recommend?  It should be freely usable, have a good coverage of
> > Unicode and preferably already converted to a web font.
>
> I have been using DejaVu Serif a lot. It is plain, very readable, and has
> good Unicode coverage for several writing systems. It is also free.
>
> https://eBible.org/fonts/dejavuserif.ttf
>
> https://eBible.org/fonts/dejavuserif.woff
>
> https://eBible.org/fonts/dejavuserif.woff2
>
>
>
>
> --
> signature
>
> Aloha,
> */Michael Johnson/**
> 26 HIWALANI LOOP • MAKAWAO HI 96768-8747*• USA
> mljohnson.org  • Phone: +1 808-333-6921 • Skype:
> kahunapule
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] PocketSword status

[Michael H]

Is it possible that the modules and .conf can sunset ... pointing across
repositories to the new replacement?  I know there is some facility to name
a successor module in the conf/updating process, but can it name one on
another site?

If that is possible, Some of the out of date editions of the WEB should be
removed from Crosswire (WMB, etc.) It might help the remaining editions get
updated with more frequency.

On the other side of that, ebible has added several works from Crosswire
onto it's Web directory and I see at least some of these on the ebible
sword repo.  However, As far as I can tell, these modules are not actually
changing visible content every time they update. It's more that defects
introduced by the transfer to ebible have been eliminated, so that they now
represent a truer copy of the original at Crosswire. These shouldn't be
removed from either, but maybe the ebible repo could be clearer that it's
presenting content from Crosswire, and not changing it.

Is it possible the ebible repository could be divided into sub repos, like
the crosswire site has ?  It would be nice to select ebible-english, or
ebible-americas and have a list of only 20 or 100 languages to scroll
through, vs. selecting ebible creates 1000 entries to search in Bibletime,
which seems to have difficulty with that number... so the screen updates
get 10 second to a couple minutes behind the keystrokes and mouse clicks
when I've selected ebible for downloading?



On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 3:11 AM Cyrille  wrote:

> Dear all,
> Actually my worry was about a question between the module team. We have
> duplicated modules, in Crosswire and in ebible.org. Often the ebible.org
> are updated and not in Crosswire. And we are very slow to update the new
> module in Crosswire. Then I proposed to remove in the Crosswire repo,
> all the old modules with issue reported on the bug tracker. But the
> question was: What to do if the users don't know how to change the repo,
> as it happened in the other post on this list, some of us didn't know
> how to change for IBT in Xiphos.
> I Bibletime, Andbible and Bishop, the repositories are updated all
> together, but not in Xiphos. I opened an issue about this on the xiphos
> git.
> For this reason I proposed this for Swordpocket, even if it seems to be
> more or less easier than for Xiphos.
>
> Br Cyrille
>
> Le 13/03/2020 à 04:14, Nic Carter a écrit :
> > On the downloads screen, tap on the folder icon in the top right corner,
> then refresh the source list.
> > That will show all servers in the Master Server List.
> >
> > Sent from my phone, hence this email may be short...
> >
> >> On 13/03/2020, at 09:24, Cyrille  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Michael,
> >> Maybe add the updating of all the repositories at once, as with Andbible
> >> and Bishop. This will help users who don't know they are other
> >> repository as ebible.org...
> >> My 2 cents :)
> >>
> >> Br Cyrille
> >>
> >>> Le 12/03/2020 à 20:30, Michael Johnson a écrit :
> >>> Hello, my brothers and sisters in Christ.
> >>>
> >>> I just thought I should post a status on PocketSword work. I have
> started on updating it, but haven't yet gotten to a stable point for
> testing using Test Flight. Right now, it is, unfortunately, on hold, as I
> have another task in the foreground. I finished the main editing of the
> World English Bible, with the exception of still correcting the occasional
> rare typo. (I found one this morning in Ezekiel.) My foreground task at the
> moment is integrating SILE into Haiola for better PDF generation, especially
> >>> with mixed complex scripts. After that is done, I hope to focus on
> PocketSword. In its new incarnation, it will generate its own indexes, and
> won't need special server support for that. I'll also fix the key problem
> for when a module goes from locked to unlocked, which of course, will
> happen as copyrights expire and/or special permission is granted.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for your patience.
> >>>
> >>
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB, NBLA, LBLA

[Michael H]

There's also a NASB2020 in limited preview release right now.

NASB will remain 1995 edition?  Does the license stipulate whether updates
are mandatory?


On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 7:48 AM Tom Sullivan  wrote:

> Y'all:
>
> There was a request to change the module NASB to NASB95. Is this in the
> works or will it remain NASB? There are in fact, two versions of the
> NASB out there as those who have the older (especially  print) version
> know.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom Sullivan
> i...@beforgiven.info
> FAX: 815-301-2835
> -
>
>
> On 3/12/20 12:42 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> > It's been a long long road, but after much negotiation and many
> > volunteers contributing to the conversion efforts, we have finally been
> > granted permission to distribute Lockman's:
> >
> > New American Standard Bible (NASB)
> > Nueva Biblia de las Américas (NBLA)
> > La Biblia de las Américas (LBLA)
> >
> > Additionally, a gracious gift from Lockman, they have granted permission
> > for CrossWire to distribute all 3 of these modules unlocked, for free.
> >
> > The modules are immediately available on swordweb:
> >
> >
> http://www.crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all=NASB=LBLA=NBLA=Jn.3.16
> >
> > And have been updated in the "Lockman Foundation" repository.  Please
> > refresh your repository in your favorite frontend to be sure you have
> > the latest module configurations.
> >
> > If you have previously installed any of these modules using the test
> > unlock keys, you may need to clear out the key for them to work property
> > in your frontend.
> >
> > May God use these resources to draw people to Himself.
> >
> > Praise Him for always providing cool things,
> >
> > Troy
> >
> >
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[sword-devel] Fwd: Bible in Basic English - Out of Copyright

[Michael H]

FYI: Status of the Bible in BASIC English is Public Domain Worldwide,
according to the original publisher.

-- Forwarded message -
From: Reitha Pattison 
Date: Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 6:01 AM
Subject: Bible in Basic English - Out of Copyright
To: cma...@gmail.com 


Dear Michael Hart,

Thank you for your patience.

I am now able to confirm that the *Bible in Basic English* is now out of
copyright throughout the world and, as such, there is no need for us to
grant permission to you for reproduction of the work.

Good luck with your project.

All best wishes,
Reitha

Dr Reitha Pattison (she/her)
Head of Rights Sales
Academic Business Development
Cambridge University Press


_
*From:* Reitha Pattison
*Sent:* 09 March 2020 16:33
*To:* cma...@gmail.com
*Subject:* FW: Rights Request


Dear Michael Hart,

Many thanks for your request, as detailed below. I am conferring with our
Bibles team on the status of the copyright and rights holdings in the *Bible
in Basic English*, and will get back to you as soon as I can.

All best wishes,
Reitha

Dr Reitha Pattison (she/her)
Head of Rights Sales, Academic Business Development
Cambridge University Press, University Printing House,
Shaftesbury Road, Cambridge CB2 8BS
Tel: +44 (0)1223 326 140
Email: *rpatti...@cambridge.org* 






-Original Message-
From: Rights Request [mailto:nore...@cambridge.org ]
Sent: 08 March 2020 03:33
To: Foreign Rights 
Subject: Rights Request

Requester Details--

Name: MICHAEL HART
Email: cma...@gmail.com
Company or Publishing House:
Street: 5214, KELLY HILL DR
Town: ArlingtonState/Province: TX  Zip/Post Code: 76017  Country:
United States
Telephone: 6825581377

Requested Book Details-

Title: Bible in Basic English
Author or Editor: S. Hooke
Year of publication: 1949 or 1961
ISBN:
Requested Rights: Translation Reprint

Requestor Publication--

Working Title: Several
Publisher: Mr.
Market Territory:
Format: Print E-Book
Other Details:
I wish to utilize the Bible In Basic English as a source for compiling
several works which are completely or nearly 100% remixes of the scripture
source. The primary usage for this is to be available in digital format for
download at no cost, but I was also hoping/planning to make them available
for purchase in digital and print-on-demand form on the Amazon platform.

The works include

The Jesus Remix: the four gospels in a chronological sequence.
The Church Remix: the Acts/Epistles/Revelation in a chronological sequence.
The Genesis Report: Early Bible portions in chronological Sequence.
The Exodus Report: Exodus - Joshua in a chronologial Sequence.
The Kingdom Report: Samuel - Ezra in a Chronological Report

Paul: his Work and Writings
John: his Work and Writings
The Teachings of Jesus
The Laws of the Bible.

I am producing these in Versions of the Bible Designed for American and
British readers of a high reading ability. The Bible in Basic English
provides the widest possible audience potentially up to 2 billion readers
that can understand the words.

Separately I seek permission to produce these works 1. for digital
noncommercial release without geographic restriction.
and
2. for commercial release both digital and print, in the USA, in Australia,
in Japan, in the UK, in Europe, and in Canada.


Cambridge University Press is the publishing business of the University of
Cambridge with VAT registered number GB 823 8476 09.  Our principal office
is at University Printing House, Shaftesbury Road, Cambridge, CB2 8BS,
United Kingdom.
*Disclaimer*
The information contained in this communication from the sender is
confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
authorised to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful.
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Re: [sword-devel] NASB, NBLA, LBLA

[Michael H]

David,

Could you pull the work, rename the conf file and offline install it as
NASB1995?

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:25 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> Anyone got any good suggestions that don’t involve deleting the
> PocketSword app?
>
> Rebooting the iPad Mini didn’t help.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 07:34, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> Actually, none of the 3 reinstalled modules work for me because
> PocketSword had remembered yesterday’s unlock keys.
>
> There’s probably no way to clear them out short of deleting the app.
>
> It’s not as if anyone can manually tweak some hidden file where these keys
> were saved.
>
> IPadOS just isn’t like that.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 06:55, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> Thanks Troy.
>
> Just deleted all 3 and re-installed them successfully in PocketSword on my
> iPad Mini 4.
>
> Please could you look towards creating the downloadable search indices for
> PocketSword to find on our server.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 04:42, Troy A. Griffitts 
> wrote:
>
> It's been a long long road, but after much negotiation and many
> volunteers contributing to the conversion efforts, we have finally been
> granted permission to distribute Lockman's:
>
> New American Standard Bible (NASB)
> Nueva Biblia de las Américas (NBLA)
> La Biblia de las Américas (LBLA)
>
> Additionally, a gracious gift from Lockman, they have granted permission
> for CrossWire to distribute all 3 of these modules unlocked, for free.
>
> The modules are immediately available on swordweb:
>
>
> http://www.crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all=NASB=LBLA=NBLA=Jn.3.16
>
> And have been updated in the "Lockman Foundation" repository.  Please
> refresh your repository in your favorite frontend to be sure you have
> the latest module configurations.
>
> If you have previously installed any of these modules using the test
> unlock keys, you may need to clear out the key for them to work property
> in your frontend.
>
> May God use these resources to draw people to Himself.
>
> Praise Him for always providing cool things,
>
> Troy
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
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Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files

[Michael H]

I owe you lunch Greg.

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 6:37 PM Philip White 
wrote:

> Ahh, that C API looks like what I would want.
>
> I didn't mean to disparage or be uppity by stating my preference for
> standardization; I greatly appreciate what this project (I use And
> Bible on my phone). This is by far the smaller of my two concerns. I
> may also suffer from not-invented-here syndrome.
>
> I did not know about diatheke before you mentioned it. The tool I
> envision is a less-like, Bible module viewer with stuff like strong's
> numbers and morphology codes, and the ability to view commentaries
> inline. Specifically, the personal commentary, so that I can see my
> own notes along with verses. The only reason for using a terminal as a
> UI is to avoid large libraries like QT4 or GTK (although, after using
> BibleTime for a bit, I've been impressed with the startup time - not
> so much with compile times though). The main thing that got me wanting
> to make this is that any software that allows editing personal
> commentaries has a builtin editor, rather than opening an external
> editor like vim. My thought is to use the EDITOR environment variable.
> It is possible that I could achieve everything I want with shell
> scripts and diatheke; I'll have to think about that more.
>
> Incidentally, I am on linux, but not Ubuntu. NixOS is my preferred distro.
>
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Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files

[Michael H]

Greg,

Diatheke on Ubuntu 18.04LTS is broken since Ubuntu 18 released. The bugs
were identified and fixed by this team on around march of 2018, but the way
the features freeze on Ubuntu, it remains broken. trying to update only the
sword package without updating the core is locked by dependencies.

I had to build a virtual session of ubuntu 19.04 to make it work. but in
19.04 diatheke has no obvious bugs, other than the very last few modules
from Cyrille need a more modern Sword engine, and there for a while all of
ebible claimed it needed newer sword engine.

Meanwhile, SIL provides Ubuntu packages for Bible translation programs
Paratext, and Fieldworks Translation editor, and maintains a linux (wine)
port of the LOGOS Bible study program for Ubuntu LTS.  So, there's more
than just a passing coincidence here.  It's very likely that someone in the
business of developing Bible software on Linux will end up on the Ubuntu
LTS software platform.


On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:38 PM Greg Hellings 
wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:27 PM Philip White 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the responses. I will consider using the Sword library. One
>> reason I am reluctant to do so is my preference for C over C++.
>>
>
> There is a C file in the bindings that allows you to access the library
> through C instead of C++. You can find the header here:
> https://www.crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/flatapi.h
>
> Another is my preference for building software on top of standards
>> instead of ad-hoc knowledge.
>>
>
> I'm not sure I see where your objection to a well received and very open
> scripture software project that is completely FOSS would have objections,
> then.
>
>
>> > This is the beauty of the Sword library. It hides all the rest of those
>> questions:
>> > 1) Which format did it come from? OSIS? ThML? Who even knows?
>> > 2) What is the source of the original text? Could be nearly anywhere.
>> > 3) What is the source encoding? Could be lots of things. Sword will
>> normalize this all to UTF-8 for you.
>>
>> All three of these points seem less about the library, and more about
>> the final modules themselves. Does the library itself normalize this,
>> or is it normalized when the modules are created? I guess I thought
>> that all modules came from OSIS sources, which I guess is incorrect.
>>
>
> It is not correct. It is the primary way that scripture modules are
> accepted from submissions, but it is not at all the case that all modules
> come from OSIS. It's not even the original source in some cases - lots of
> them come from USFM or USX, then get converted to OSIS before being turned
> into Sword modules.
>
> Is there any reason that diatheke cannot fulfil your needs?
>
> --Greg
>
>>
>> - Philip
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files

[Michael H]

Beyond the specific request for OSIS version of KJV w strongs, I use
diatheke on the Linux command line, although I had to build a virtual
session with Ubuntu19.04 because ubuntu 18.04 was shipped with a sword
engine that contains bugs.. If you're seeing the doubled last verse from
diatheke, just upgrade your base system.

And beyond that, I would recommend reading about the scripture burrito
project (https://docs.burrito.bible/en/latest/). It's under current
development, and you can probably count on the technology still being
viable in 10-20 years, if it makes it past the next couple (but they have
enough participation... they will endure.)


On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 5:22 PM Michael H  wrote:

> There are a lot of places to get scripture in free formats.  OSIS
> supported by the Sword project is very old, and not many places still
> provide it.
>
> I suggest you start at ebible.org,
> https://ebible.org/download.php
>
> which provides the KJV with strongs in OSIS among other formats.
> https://ebible.org/details.php?id=eng-kjv2006=1
>
> Note the text there isn't necessarily the same text as what you see in the
> Sword KJV module, but the OSIS is similar enough that any differences are
> trivial. (periods may have moved before or after some embedded data... that
> kind of difference.)
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 4:08 PM Philip White 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm interested in building a linux command line module viewer. From
>> the wiki and the FAQ, it seems that the only way to work with the
>> modules available from the website is to use the SWORD library. If the
>> raw OSIS files were available, then I think I could write a
>> low-dependency piece of software (counting all dependencies) since I
>> will probably not use everything that the library provides.
>>
>> Is there a place I can get OSIS modules for something like the KJV
>> with Strong's numbers module? My understanding is that the modules
>> format acts as a sort of DRM for those modules that need to have some
>> copyright protection. However, a lot of Bibles, commentaries, and
>> books are public domain, so there would be nothing preventing the
>> distribution of the OSIS files.
>>
>> In summary, my question is how I can obtain the files in the
>> standardized OSIS format instead of the undocumented modules format
>> that modules on the website come in.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Philip
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] How to access raw OSIS files

[Michael H]

There are a lot of places to get scripture in free formats.  OSIS supported
by the Sword project is very old, and not many places still provide it.

I suggest you start at ebible.org,
https://ebible.org/download.php

which provides the KJV with strongs in OSIS among other formats.
https://ebible.org/details.php?id=eng-kjv2006=1

Note the text there isn't necessarily the same text as what you see in the
Sword KJV module, but the OSIS is similar enough that any differences are
trivial. (periods may have moved before or after some embedded data... that
kind of difference.)

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 4:08 PM Philip White 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in building a linux command line module viewer. From
> the wiki and the FAQ, it seems that the only way to work with the
> modules available from the website is to use the SWORD library. If the
> raw OSIS files were available, then I think I could write a
> low-dependency piece of software (counting all dependencies) since I
> will probably not use everything that the library provides.
>
> Is there a place I can get OSIS modules for something like the KJV
> with Strong's numbers module? My understanding is that the modules
> format acts as a sort of DRM for those modules that need to have some
> copyright protection. However, a lot of Bibles, commentaries, and
> books are public domain, so there would be nothing preventing the
> distribution of the OSIS files.
>
> In summary, my question is how I can obtain the files in the
> standardized OSIS format instead of the undocumented modules format
> that modules on the website come in.
>
> Thanks,
> Philip
>
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[sword-devel] Bible in Basic English

[Michael H]

Is there documentation anywhere about the specific claim that the Bible in
Basic English is in the Public Domain?

As of November 2019, the Wikipedia article on Bible in Basic English claims
the work is copyrighted. It appears it was created by an editor within
Wikipedia, which amounts to creating a falsehood, but just in case there's
a IP grab going on.. does anyone have documentation of this version
regarding its works copyright status?

I know the story (published with no copyright statement in the USA, forever
making it public domain here.) I even emailed Cambridge University Press
back in 2013(?) seeking confirmation and my memory of the response was
"copyright now applies only in the UK proper. we wouldn't seek any
enforcement outside of the UK." But I can't locate this email, and fear it
was from an account lost in the Yahoo ownership change.

I have this work slated as source for many remixes of Scripture (among
several others.) That is, I'm working on several works which are nearly
100% extracts from scripture, but reorganized into a narrative or topical
format:

1. The Jesus Remix: Report on the History of Jesus.
2. The Spirit Remix: Report on the Beginning of the Christian Church.
3. Inception: Report on the beginning
4. Journey: Report on the Exodus
5. Kingdoms: Report on the history of Kingdoms of Israel
6. Exile: Report on the Exile and return
7. The Teachings of Jesus
8. The Laws of Old Testament and their New Testament Responses
. . . .

While there are many public domain or relaxed license versions to choose
from, BBE provides the largest audience, in that it can be understood well
by more people on the planet than any other work currently in public domain
status. I am planning to also produce these works with more precise
language WEB-BE and the (Unlocked) Dynamic (English) Bible, I still hope to
have the BBE editions available to provide the widest possible reach.
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Re: [sword-devel] KJV with strong numbers

[Michael H]

Deprecated indicates that new development won't follow this method, but
current instances are maintained to provide the widest compatibility. I'm
not aware this has been made obsolete, which would indicate it is no longer
supported and will break the display or program. Until it is made Obsolete,
I would recommend it be supported, since a rather large user base is
currently using it. (Ubuntu LTS is the preferred desktop for Bible
translation teams in East Africa, SE Asia and Latin America in the SIL,
Wycliffe Bible translators, and to a lesser extent SEED company and
Biblica.)

What would the presence of the OSISqToTick parameter in a conf file mean to
more recent desktops?  will they ignore it, or will it produce bad results?

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:53 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> IIRC, the OSISqToTick key was deprecated some years ago.
>
> I think the problem is that CrossWire failed to release KJVA module
> version 3.1 in February 2017.
>
> On my PC this was made as a module named KJVAX and was rebuilt completely
> from KJV & KJVDC source files. The X in the module name is simply so that I
> could also retain the released module KJVA.
>
> Pretty certain that this was put to DM at the time.
>
> NB.
> It would seem that BibleTime is ignoring the attribute marker=“” in the
> OSIS q elements. That’s a software issue that needs fixing.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 16:23, Michael H  wrote:
>
> correction, the version is Bibletime 2.11.1, not 2.11.3.
>
> The KJVA module conf file contains the line "OSISqToTick=false".  I
> believe this is the cause of the missing quotations.  I think Bibletime is
> correctly displaying the quotes in modules as defined by OSIS, where most
> frontends just ignore this configuration, and remove the quotations on all
> WOJ. But I'm really out of my depth here.
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Michael H  wrote:
>
>> I see them in bibletime 2.11.3 for Linux (Ubuntu 18.04LTS) built on Sword
>> 1.7.3. This is the default edition that comes in the apps provided by
>> the current stable Ubuntu edition.
>>
>> In a 3 column view with the modules listed, engKJV1769eb, KJV, and KJVA;
>> only the KJVA displays  silent transitions.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM David Haslam 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> The CrossWire KJV module should not and does not display quotation
>>> marks in either Xiphos or PocketSword & probably all SWORD based front-end
>>> apps.
>>>
>>> If you see quotation marks at Words of Jesus transitions, might this be
>>> a failure of some apps not correctly implementing the attribute marker=“”
>>> in rendering the OSIS q element?
>>>
>>> Which apps have such an issue?
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 15:49, Michael H  wrote:
>>>
>>> I suspect starting from the KJVA module is the correct approach for you
>>> Cyrille. The engKJV1769eb module is present to make the text available in
>>> the other formats (web browser, epub, kindle formats.) It is not intended
>>> to be a source text. However, the conversion to all these formats
>>> reprocesses the text and introduces some quirks.
>>>
>>> The Crosswire KJV module is not identical to the engKJV1769eb module.
>>>
>>> 1. The ebible module does not contain Chapter titles, while the KJV and
>>> KJVA modules do.
>>> 2. The ebible module has more white space between features (pilcrows
>>> have trailing spaces, Words of Jesus transitions introduce an extra space,
>>> etc.) These are not present in the KJV and KJVA modules.
>>> 3. Both the ebible and KJV module display quotation marks where the
>>> Words of Jesus transitions occur.  This is not present in the source text,
>>> but is apparently a quirk of OSIS (not sure if it's in the OSIS, or the
>>> conf file.) However, the KJVA module does NOT contain these quotations
>>> which is more appropriate. Yet it lists the same source as the KJV module.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:19 AM Cyrille  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 15/11/2019 à 09:08, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> AFAIK, The OSIS XML files that eBible.org uses for the engKJV1769eb
>>>> module are not those that either I or DM used for the CrossWire KJV & KJVA
>>>> modules.
>>>>
>>>> I have the feeling again that we are wasting a mad energy by the
>>>

Re: [sword-devel] KJV with strong numbers

[Michael H]

It's almost certainly already been addressed, but due to the software
update schedule for Ubuntu won't appear in the long term support stream
until April 2020.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:53 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> IIRC, the OSISqToTick key was deprecated some years ago.
>
> I think the problem is that CrossWire failed to release KJVA module
> version 3.1 in February 2017.
>
> On my PC this was made as a module named KJVAX and was rebuilt completely
> from KJV & KJVDC source files. The X in the module name is simply so that I
> could also retain the released module KJVA.
>
> Pretty certain that this was put to DM at the time.
>
> NB.
> It would seem that BibleTime is ignoring the attribute marker=“” in the
> OSIS q elements. That’s a software issue that needs fixing.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 16:23, Michael H  wrote:
>
> correction, the version is Bibletime 2.11.1, not 2.11.3.
>
> The KJVA module conf file contains the line "OSISqToTick=false".  I
> believe this is the cause of the missing quotations.  I think Bibletime is
> correctly displaying the quotes in modules as defined by OSIS, where most
> frontends just ignore this configuration, and remove the quotations on all
> WOJ. But I'm really out of my depth here.
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Michael H  wrote:
>
>> I see them in bibletime 2.11.3 for Linux (Ubuntu 18.04LTS) built on Sword
>> 1.7.3. This is the default edition that comes in the apps provided by
>> the current stable Ubuntu edition.
>>
>> In a 3 column view with the modules listed, engKJV1769eb, KJV, and KJVA;
>> only the KJVA displays  silent transitions.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM David Haslam 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> The CrossWire KJV module should not and does not display quotation
>>> marks in either Xiphos or PocketSword & probably all SWORD based front-end
>>> apps.
>>>
>>> If you see quotation marks at Words of Jesus transitions, might this be
>>> a failure of some apps not correctly implementing the attribute marker=“”
>>> in rendering the OSIS q element?
>>>
>>> Which apps have such an issue?
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 15:49, Michael H  wrote:
>>>
>>> I suspect starting from the KJVA module is the correct approach for you
>>> Cyrille. The engKJV1769eb module is present to make the text available in
>>> the other formats (web browser, epub, kindle formats.) It is not intended
>>> to be a source text. However, the conversion to all these formats
>>> reprocesses the text and introduces some quirks.
>>>
>>> The Crosswire KJV module is not identical to the engKJV1769eb module.
>>>
>>> 1. The ebible module does not contain Chapter titles, while the KJV and
>>> KJVA modules do.
>>> 2. The ebible module has more white space between features (pilcrows
>>> have trailing spaces, Words of Jesus transitions introduce an extra space,
>>> etc.) These are not present in the KJV and KJVA modules.
>>> 3. Both the ebible and KJV module display quotation marks where the
>>> Words of Jesus transitions occur.  This is not present in the source text,
>>> but is apparently a quirk of OSIS (not sure if it's in the OSIS, or the
>>> conf file.) However, the KJVA module does NOT contain these quotations
>>> which is more appropriate. Yet it lists the same source as the KJV module.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:19 AM Cyrille  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 15/11/2019 à 09:08, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> AFAIK, The OSIS XML files that eBible.org uses for the engKJV1769eb
>>>> module are not those that either I or DM used for the CrossWire KJV & KJVA
>>>> modules.
>>>>
>>>> I have the feeling again that we are wasting a mad energy by the
>>>> dispersion of sources and parallel works. Two "identical" modules
>>>> developed from two sources...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’ve really not looked in detail at how Michael Johnson maintains his
>>>> modules with Haiola.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 13:57, Cyrille  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Peter,
>>>> I look in the conf file:

Re: [sword-devel] KJV with strong numbers

[Michael H]

Yes, the modules are all updated.  Bibletime is up to date, but that means
the last version provided by 18.04LTS upstream, and is not current to the
development stream.

I mentioned the KJVA module to Cyrille to point out that there is a
crosswire module which contains all of the apocryphal books, which is an
important consideration for him.

I maintain that the presence of the "OSISqToTick=false" line item in the
KJVA module, but not the KJV nor engKJV1769eb modules are the reason for
the quotes appearing in some but not all modules. However, I'm out of my
depth here, because this gets into what does each front end do with the
conf file.

However, It's my best interpretation of the sword spec and communication on
this subject that all KJV modules which contain red letter encoding would
best be represented with the configuration OSISqToTick=false in their
respective conf files.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:35 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> Michael,
>
> KJV version 2.9 and KJVA version 3.0.1 should behave the same.
>
> KJVA is now made using the osis2mod augment switch -a to add the DC books
> to the module first made from the KJV source XML file.
>
> Are you viewing these latest module releases?
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 16:17, Michael H  wrote:
>
> I see them in bibletime 2.11.3 for Linux (Ubuntu 18.04LTS) built on Sword
> 1.7.3. This is the default edition that comes in the apps provided by the
> current stable Ubuntu edition.
>
> In a 3 column view with the modules listed, engKJV1769eb, KJV, and KJVA;
> only the KJVA displays  silent transitions.
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM David Haslam 
> wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> The CrossWire KJV module should not and does not display quotation marks
>> in either Xiphos or PocketSword & probably all SWORD based front-end apps.
>>
>> If you see quotation marks at Words of Jesus transitions, might this be a
>> failure of some apps not correctly implementing the attribute marker=“” in
>> rendering the OSIS q element?
>>
>> Which apps have such an issue?
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 15:49, Michael H  wrote:
>>
>> I suspect starting from the KJVA module is the correct approach for you
>> Cyrille. The engKJV1769eb module is present to make the text available in
>> the other formats (web browser, epub, kindle formats.) It is not intended
>> to be a source text. However, the conversion to all these formats
>> reprocesses the text and introduces some quirks.
>>
>> The Crosswire KJV module is not identical to the engKJV1769eb module.
>>
>> 1. The ebible module does not contain Chapter titles, while the KJV and
>> KJVA modules do.
>> 2. The ebible module has more white space between features (pilcrows
>> have trailing spaces, Words of Jesus transitions introduce an extra space,
>> etc.) These are not present in the KJV and KJVA modules.
>> 3. Both the ebible and KJV module display quotation marks where the Words
>> of Jesus transitions occur.  This is not present in the source text, but is
>> apparently a quirk of OSIS (not sure if it's in the OSIS, or the conf
>> file.) However, the KJVA module does NOT contain these quotations which is
>> more appropriate. Yet it lists the same source as the KJV module.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:19 AM Cyrille  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 15/11/2019 à 09:08, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>
>>> AFAIK, The OSIS XML files that eBible.org uses for the engKJV1769eb
>>> module are not those that either I or DM used for the CrossWire KJV & KJVA
>>> modules.
>>>
>>> I have the feeling again that we are wasting a mad energy by the
>>> dispersion of sources and parallel works. Two "identical" modules
>>> developed from two sources...
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve really not looked in detail at how Michael Johnson maintains his
>>> modules with Haiola.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 13:57, Cyrille  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Peter,
>>> I look in the conf file:
>>> TextSource=bf.org, eBible.org...
>>> eBible.org is ok
>>> And eBible.org is working, but how to do if we want to work on it? At
>>> the same time I discover that ebible is an excellent resource that stores
>>> bibles in usfm and osis formats.
>>> David, is your file different from ebible?
>>> Maybe a link to the ebible.org (I co

Re: [sword-devel] KJV with strong numbers

[Michael H]

correction, the version is Bibletime 2.11.1, not 2.11.3.

The KJVA module conf file contains the line "OSISqToTick=false".  I believe
this is the cause of the missing quotations.  I think Bibletime is
correctly displaying the quotes in modules as defined by OSIS, where most
frontends just ignore this configuration, and remove the quotations on all
WOJ. But I'm really out of my depth here.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM Michael H  wrote:

> I see them in bibletime 2.11.3 for Linux (Ubuntu 18.04LTS) built on Sword
> 1.7.3. This is the default edition that comes in the apps provided by the
> current stable Ubuntu edition.
>
> In a 3 column view with the modules listed, engKJV1769eb, KJV, and KJVA;
> only the KJVA displays  silent transitions.
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM David Haslam 
> wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> The CrossWire KJV module should not and does not display quotation marks
>> in either Xiphos or PocketSword & probably all SWORD based front-end apps.
>>
>> If you see quotation marks at Words of Jesus transitions, might this be a
>> failure of some apps not correctly implementing the attribute marker=“” in
>> rendering the OSIS q element?
>>
>> Which apps have such an issue?
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 15:49, Michael H  wrote:
>>
>> I suspect starting from the KJVA module is the correct approach for you
>> Cyrille. The engKJV1769eb module is present to make the text available in
>> the other formats (web browser, epub, kindle formats.) It is not intended
>> to be a source text. However, the conversion to all these formats
>> reprocesses the text and introduces some quirks.
>>
>> The Crosswire KJV module is not identical to the engKJV1769eb module.
>>
>> 1. The ebible module does not contain Chapter titles, while the KJV and
>> KJVA modules do.
>> 2. The ebible module has more white space between features (pilcrows
>> have trailing spaces, Words of Jesus transitions introduce an extra space,
>> etc.) These are not present in the KJV and KJVA modules.
>> 3. Both the ebible and KJV module display quotation marks where the Words
>> of Jesus transitions occur.  This is not present in the source text, but is
>> apparently a quirk of OSIS (not sure if it's in the OSIS, or the conf
>> file.) However, the KJVA module does NOT contain these quotations which is
>> more appropriate. Yet it lists the same source as the KJV module.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:19 AM Cyrille  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 15/11/2019 à 09:08, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>
>>> AFAIK, The OSIS XML files that eBible.org uses for the engKJV1769eb
>>> module are not those that either I or DM used for the CrossWire KJV & KJVA
>>> modules.
>>>
>>> I have the feeling again that we are wasting a mad energy by the
>>> dispersion of sources and parallel works. Two "identical" modules
>>> developed from two sources...
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve really not looked in detail at how Michael Johnson maintains his
>>> modules with Haiola.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 13:57, Cyrille  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Peter,
>>> I look in the conf file:
>>> TextSource=bf.org, eBible.org...
>>> eBible.org is ok
>>> And eBible.org is working, but how to do if we want to work on it? At
>>> the same time I discover that ebible is an excellent resource that stores
>>> bibles in usfm and osis formats.
>>> David, is your file different from ebible?
>>> Maybe a link to the ebible.org (I could only download the usfm file) on
>>> wiki would be useful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 15/11/2019 à 05:27, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>
>>> Strictly speaking, it’s maintained by DM Smith - though I did some
>>> significant work on the source text in 2016 in collaboration with DM.
>>>
>>> I still keep such KJV files on my PC too.
>>>
>>> The wiki includes a roadmap for further potential enhancements.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17, Peter Von Kaehne  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Cyrille,
>>>
>>> I am not on my computer, but I think the link to the source text is both
>>> in the conf file and accessible via the WIki.
>>>
>>>

Re: [sword-devel] KJV with strong numbers

[Michael H]

I see them in bibletime 2.11.3 for Linux (Ubuntu 18.04LTS) built on Sword
1.7.3. This is the default edition that comes in the apps provided by the
current stable Ubuntu edition.

In a 3 column view with the modules listed, engKJV1769eb, KJV, and KJVA;
only the KJVA displays  silent transitions.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> Michael,
>
> The CrossWire KJV module should not and does not display quotation marks
> in either Xiphos or PocketSword & probably all SWORD based front-end apps.
>
> If you see quotation marks at Words of Jesus transitions, might this be a
> failure of some apps not correctly implementing the attribute marker=“” in
> rendering the OSIS q element?
>
> Which apps have such an issue?
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 15:49, Michael H  wrote:
>
> I suspect starting from the KJVA module is the correct approach for you
> Cyrille. The engKJV1769eb module is present to make the text available in
> the other formats (web browser, epub, kindle formats.) It is not intended
> to be a source text. However, the conversion to all these formats
> reprocesses the text and introduces some quirks.
>
> The Crosswire KJV module is not identical to the engKJV1769eb module.
>
> 1. The ebible module does not contain Chapter titles, while the KJV and
> KJVA modules do.
> 2. The ebible module has more white space between features (pilcrows
> have trailing spaces, Words of Jesus transitions introduce an extra space,
> etc.) These are not present in the KJV and KJVA modules.
> 3. Both the ebible and KJV module display quotation marks where the Words
> of Jesus transitions occur.  This is not present in the source text, but is
> apparently a quirk of OSIS (not sure if it's in the OSIS, or the conf
> file.) However, the KJVA module does NOT contain these quotations which is
> more appropriate. Yet it lists the same source as the KJV module.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:19 AM Cyrille  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Le 15/11/2019 à 09:08, David Haslam a écrit :
>>
>> AFAIK, The OSIS XML files that eBible.org uses for the engKJV1769eb
>> module are not those that either I or DM used for the CrossWire KJV & KJVA
>> modules.
>>
>> I have the feeling again that we are wasting a mad energy by the
>> dispersion of sources and parallel works. Two "identical" modules
>> developed from two sources...
>>
>>
>> I’ve really not looked in detail at how Michael Johnson maintains his
>> modules with Haiola.
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 13:57, Cyrille  wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Peter,
>> I look in the conf file:
>> TextSource=bf.org, eBible.org...
>> eBible.org is ok
>> And eBible.org is working, but how to do if we want to work on it? At
>> the same time I discover that ebible is an excellent resource that stores
>> bibles in usfm and osis formats.
>> David, is your file different from ebible?
>> Maybe a link to the ebible.org (I could only download the usfm file) on
>> wiki would be useful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 15/11/2019 à 05:27, David Haslam a écrit :
>>
>> Strictly speaking, it’s maintained by DM Smith - though I did some
>> significant work on the source text in 2016 in collaboration with DM.
>>
>> I still keep such KJV files on my PC too.
>>
>> The wiki includes a roadmap for further potential enhancements.
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17, Peter Von Kaehne  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Cyrille,
>>
>> I am not on my computer, but I think the link to the source text is both
>> in the conf file and accessible via the WIki.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 15. November 2019 um 03:26 Uhr
>> *Von:* "Cyrille"  
>> *An:* "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" 
>> 
>> *Betreff:* [sword-devel] KJV with strong numbers
>> Hello,
>> I red that the KJV with strong's numbers is a crosswire project
>> <http://www.crosswire.org/sword/kjv2003/>, I'm just looking for where
>> can I found the osis source text of this module?
>> ___ sword-devel mailing list:
>> sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to
>> unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> sword-devel mailing l

Re: [sword-devel] KJV with strong numbers

[Michael H]

I suspect starting from the KJVA module is the correct approach for you
Cyrille. The engKJV1769eb module is present to make the text available in
the other formats (web browser, epub, kindle formats.) It is not intended
to be a source text. However, the conversion to all these formats
reprocesses the text and introduces some quirks.

The Crosswire KJV module is not identical to the engKJV1769eb module.

1. The ebible module does not contain Chapter titles, while the KJV and
KJVA modules do.
2. The ebible module has more white space between features (pilcrows
have trailing spaces, Words of Jesus transitions introduce an extra space,
etc.) These are not present in the KJV and KJVA modules.
3. Both the ebible and KJV module display quotation marks where the Words
of Jesus transitions occur.  This is not present in the source text, but is
apparently a quirk of OSIS (not sure if it's in the OSIS, or the conf
file.) However, the KJVA module does NOT contain these quotations which is
more appropriate. Yet it lists the same source as the KJV module.


On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 8:19 AM Cyrille  wrote:

>
>
> Le 15/11/2019 à 09:08, David Haslam a écrit :
>
> AFAIK, The OSIS XML files that eBible.org uses for the engKJV1769eb module
> are not those that either I or DM used for the CrossWire KJV & KJVA
> modules.
>
> I have the feeling again that we are wasting a mad energy by the
> dispersion of sources and parallel works. Two "identical" modules
> developed from two sources...
>
>
> I’ve really not looked in detail at how Michael Johnson maintains his
> modules with Haiola.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 13:57, Cyrille  wrote:
>
> Thank you Peter,
> I look in the conf file:
> TextSource=bf.org, eBible.org...
> eBible.org is ok
> And eBible.org is working, but how to do if we want to work on it? At the
> same time I discover that ebible is an excellent resource that stores
> bibles in usfm and osis formats.
> David, is your file different from ebible?
> Maybe a link to the ebible.org (I could only download the usfm file) on
> wiki would be useful.
>
>
>
> Le 15/11/2019 à 05:27, David Haslam a écrit :
>
> Strictly speaking, it’s maintained by DM Smith - though I did some
> significant work on the source text in 2016 in collaboration with DM.
>
> I still keep such KJV files on my PC too.
>
> The wiki includes a roadmap for further potential enhancements.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:17, Peter Von Kaehne  wrote:
>
> Hi Cyrille,
>
> I am not on my computer, but I think the link to the source text is both
> in the conf file and accessible via the WIki.
>
> Peter
>
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 15. November 2019 um 03:26 Uhr
> *Von:* "Cyrille"  
> *An:* "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" 
> 
> *Betreff:* [sword-devel] KJV with strong numbers
> Hello,
> I red that the KJV with strong's numbers is a crosswire project
> , I'm just looking for where can
> I found the osis source text of this module?
> ___ sword-devel mailing list:
> sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to
> unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [sword-devel] Engine personal cipher support / Nestle - Aland 28th ed. German Bible Society

[Michael H]

If/when this is available, please post on the Crosswire facebook page. :-)
I will promote it.

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 6:31 PM Troy A. Griffitts 
wrote:

> Hi Jaak,
>
> Thank you for pointing out one problematic input condition which passes
> the validation checks already in the code.
>
> Your statement that there is no validation on input is incorrect.  There
> is validation on input.  You found one case which passed those
> validation checks.  An additional check has been added to handle your
> case of passing an empty personalization prefix to the depersonalization
> mechanism.
>
> We appreciate your reporting of this unvalidated scenario.  If you find
> additional strings which cause issues, please continue to provide feedback.
>
> Regarding the publisher's reason for requesting personalized unlock
> codes, in their mind, a user is less likely to share their unlock code
> if it is, e.g.,
>
> RISTIOJAJA2019-wEt-lum-UIw-GlQN
>
> They know it does not provide any additional software protection.
>
> I agree with their reasoning that it is a disincentive to share one's
> unlock key if the origin of that shared key can be traced back to a user.
>
> Hope this makes sense,
>
> Troy
>
>
> On 10/30/19 3:30 PM, Jaak Ristioja wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > On 29.10.19 23:42, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> >> #1 was included as an update to our engine with this commit:
> >>
> >> commit f4ac4caeacd762c90c2b2cef5755bf745e3a6d58
> >> Author: scribe 
> >> Date:   Sat Dec 29 21:23:25 2018 +
> >>
> >>  Added personalization mechanism for cipher keys
> >>  git-svn-id: https://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk@3614
> >> bcd7d363-81e1-0310-97ec-a550e20fc99c
> >
> > As the maintainer of Sword++, I regularly merge in changes from Sword.
> > When this commit was made in 2018, I did not figure out why exactly it
> > was needed. Because the code also seemed suspicious, I decided not to
> > merge this commit into the Sword++ codebase at that point. Haven now
> > given it some additional thought, I'm even more sceptical.
> >
> > The current implementation does not seem to provide any additional
> > security benefits. It could actually make things worse by providing a
> > false sense of security. Could you please explain why exactly the
> > "personal keys" logic is needed in the first place? What do the
> > stakeholders believe to gain?
> >
> > On a more technical side, the function seems to make certain
> > undocumented presumptions about the input string. The function does
> > not validate its inputs and crashes in simple cases like in the
> > following:
> >
> > SWBuf test("-asdf");
> > SWCipher::personalize(test, false); // SIGFPE !?
> >
> > Since it is not acceptable for frontends to crash on invalid user
> > input, they would need to validate the input before passing it to this
> > function. How should they do that? What is the format for the input
> > string? Would it be possible document these requirements in the inline
> > code documentation for SWCipher::personalize() please?
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > J
> >
> > ___
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> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>
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Re: [sword-devel] Roman Numerals to Arabic

[Michael H]

The problem with turning a script like that on globally is that
occasionally regular words spell out roman numbers.  So, you might have
eleven running China if you just let it run amok.

David, almost certainly scripture references only run to 150 (151,2?) as
every reference I've seen romanizes the chapter, but leaves the verse in
arabic. It's following classic outline form: ROMAN, Alpha, roman, arabic,
greek, where ROMAN is testament, Alpha is book name, roman is chapter,
arabic is verse and greek is subversive, although I see alpha subverses
more often than the greek.


On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:23 AM Don Elbourne  wrote:

> Does anyone have a Roman Numerals to Arabic conversion tool?
>
> I have a long document where all the scripture references are in Roman
> Numerals. I'd love to convert them to more standard Arabic number
> references. To do so by hand would take a lifetime. lol
>
> btw The document is "A Scriptural Exposition of the Baptist Catechism"
> and IMHO would be a great module resource in Sword.
>
> http://www.ourbaptistheritage.org/uploads/8/1/0/2/81023264/benjamin_beddome_a_scriptural_exposition_of_the_baptist_catechism.pdf
>
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Re: [sword-devel] OSIS Commentary - versification

[Michael H]

The text (https://git.door43.org/Door43-Catalog/en_tn) is not in currently
in a format supported by anything except unfoldingWord, (
https://door43.org/u/Door43-Catalog/en_tn/ff70a8adb2/) but it is in a
regular format. So the manual transform  into a supported form is currently
planned to go directly into OSIS. Considering the depth of the information,
this seems the most likely to succeed and keep the information present and
usable.

"Build my own tools" is stronger language than I would use for my effort. I
do plan to write stuff (LibreOffice Calc functions) that output OSIS
directly from the spreadsheet files in the link, but not the module. I can
synthesize what needs to happen for all of this except the header text that
will make the subsequent validation and conversion to module work. An
example OSIS source text for a valid sword commentary would be most
helpful.

The The English TN is based on ASV(NRSV) versification. But there other
languages--Russian, French, Italian where I'm expecting the reference
edition to be other versifications, because the versification was
established to follow the vulgate or something like it long before modern
era.  maybe I'm seeing a mountain where none exists, or a problem that
remains unsolvable in Sword (linking to scripture across versifications).
It seems like there should be some hook in the work itself or along with
each link that describes the versification of the intended scripture
target. I'm not seeing how to encode that.


On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 11:28 AM Greg Hellings 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 2:08 PM Michael H  wrote:
>
>> So I have a collection of files (based on vulgate and NRSV works) that
>> will become commentaries.
>>
>> The first thing I'd like to address are the differences in the
>> versification, primarily (for the vulgate stuff) so that commentary about
>> Psalm 119 doesn't show up on 118 or 120.
>>
>> The only place I see to label a versification is in the .conf file?
>> (after the module is finished.) And in command line utitilities that
>> probably won't apply to my case, since I'm starting from bare text, and
>> there's no reason to convert to a intermediate format.
>>
>
> Correct, but you'll eventually need to pass it through an import utility,
> unless you write the module directly yourself from a custom crafted tool.
> But, even then, you'll still need to declare the versification manually
> when you create the module object (or accept the KJV default) so that any
> index file is properly written out.
>
>
>> There isn't any declaration inside an OSIS file?   If I'm building the
>> OSIS myself, is there anything I need to be especially concerned regarding
>> the versificaiton, or just ensure that my reference tags will fit a SWORD
>> versification item?
>>
>
> Pretty sure that OSIS headers have a field for it. Almost as sure that the
> osis2mod tool ignores it along with just about everything else in the
> header.
>
> --Greg
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[sword-devel] OSIS Commentary - versification

[Michael H]

So I have a collection of files (based on vulgate and NRSV works) that will
become commentaries.

The first thing I'd like to address are the differences in the
versification, primarily (for the vulgate stuff) so that commentary about
Psalm 119 doesn't show up on 118 or 120.

The only place I see to label a versification is in the .conf file? (after
the module is finished.) And in command line utitilities that probably
won't apply to my case, since I'm starting from bare text, and there's no
reason to convert to a intermediate format.

There isn't any declaration inside an OSIS file?   If I'm building the OSIS
myself, is there anything I need to be especially concerned regarding the
versificaiton, or just ensure that my reference tags will fit a SWORD
versification item?

Maybe what I'm asking is to see a complete header text of the OSIS file
that built properly into a commentary of the whole bible, including
inter-book references. Are there any examples available?
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[sword-devel] local Sword server via bluetooth or wifi.

[Michael H]

Do any of the Android front ends support locally sharing resources? That
is, set your phone to 'server' mode which can then be detected by other
devices within bluetooth/wifi range?

1. I'd expect this to be restricted to open licensed material only.
(possibly with a loud warning if that were to be overridden.)

2. It would be great if the connection was aware of all servers and caught
the requests for all of them. IE, so a connection from a front end that was
unaware of the local share would still find sword modules.
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[sword-devel] Command line utilities

[Michael H]

I remember some discussion about alternatives to diatheke which could run
on a (linux?) command line, but I don't see them on the main crosswire
website. Does anyone have a list of these? Are any still functioning?
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Re: [sword-devel] Deep Linking to Strongs on The Bible Tool

[Michael H]

Here's what my 10 second hack found:

http://www2.crosswire.org/study/wordsearchresults.jsp?mod=StrongsGreek=
http://www2.crosswire.org/study/wordsearchresults.jsp?mod=StrongsHebrew=2131

Provides search results for "" but the links don't work. (looks like a
bug?)



http://www2.crosswire.org/study/passagestudy.jsp?showStrong=3002

This Provides a strong number entry (brief, less info than I'm used to) but
it 'remembers' a verse reference even in a clean browser window and shows
the strongs inside the chapter and verse.

Anyone Else?

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 11:29 AM Don Elbourne  wrote:

>
> Hi guys, I pray ya'll are doing well. Its been a very long time since I
> have posted here, but I'm working on a little project and thought you
> could help.
>
> Is there a way to link directly to a Strongs number entry on "The Bible
> Tool?"
> http://www2.crosswire.org/study/
>
> We are doing a Bible study at church, on the Apostles' Creed and I have
> created an HTML interlinear to aid in our study. I wanted to link to an
> online Lexicon, for word studies, and figured this might be a good way
> to do it, if the tool has the capacity.
>
> BTW, nobody here probably remembers me, but I did the CSS for the Bible
> Tool, way back in the day. I am so glad that it still looks great. :)
>
>
> --
>
> by Grace alone,
>
> Pastor Don A. Elbourne Jr
>
> Lakeshore Baptist Church
>
> http://lakeshorebaptist.net
>
> http://rebuildlakeshore.com
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] ESV

[Michael H]

Troy,

Following up on the amount due.  I know the organization itself doesn't do
money, but if they continue to chase crosswire for that money, is there a
way to contribute to that?


On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 12:19 PM Troy A. Griffitts 
wrote:

> Hi Tuomas,
>
> Yes, Crossway has decided to ask us again to stop distributing the ESV.
> We deal with new people there all the time and explaining to them how we
> work and our "family" of applications, and that open source software does
> not mean open source Bibles, is a challenge.  For the past 10 years, we
> have tried to get the ESV distribution off of our server onto Crossway's
> server into their own SWORD remote module installation repository, so as to
> not require from CrossWire a license from Crossway (and all Crossway
> requires of a license, including a nominal annual fee, renewing the
> contract, providing regular download stats, etc.).  Crossway has expressed
> desire to do this in the past, which we hoped would happen soon and hadn't
> been paying their licensing fees in the hopes that they would take over
> their own distribution, but they have never follow through with this.  The
> most recent person in charge of digital licensing has now sent us a bill
> for $1400 for past licensing dues and is sending mixed signals:
>
> "Crossway does not wish to have you do this [distribute from CrossWire
> servers] with our content, as we have our own servers.  We also do not want
> to make your software or the data files that work with our [sic: your?]
> software available on Crossway's site, as we have our own proprietary API,
> apps, software, and systems."
>
> ...
>
> "Crossway is not interested in granting you a license to distribute the
> ESV from your server, nor do we wish to distribute your data files and
> software from our site."
>
> ...
>
> "If in the days to come you wish to use the ESV again, we would welcome a
> new proposal from you regarding your desired use."
>
>
> I sent the new distributions rights "VP" all the threads of discussion
> we've had over the past 18 year with Crossway.  I am sure it was probably
> too much to be useful, but have quoted relevant sections of those
> discussions.  It all comes down to the fact that we have 2000+ Bibles
> available for our tools.  For no other Bible do we have to pay an annual
> licensing fee or regularly deal with demands from some new person in charge
> of digital rights to cease distribute of their text when someone from our
> community emails them and asks about their new SWORD frontend having access
> to the ESV.  It has become exhausting.
>
> I am sad it has come to this,
>
> Troy
>
>
> On 6/4/19 11:44 PM, Tuomas Airaksinen wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> And Bible user notified me that popular ESV module has disappeared and I
> checked that it indeed is not listed in AB module listings at the moment.
> What happened?
>
> --
> T: Tuomas
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Genbooks

[Michael H]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Compiled_HTML_Help

CHM is not exactly opensource.  Microsoft successfully sued TomTom for
using FAT32 formatting in it's GPS systems without paying any royalties to
Microsoft.  That's the old (Gates, Balmer) Microsoft, but still it's a
proprietary technology by a company with a history of using litigation on
technologies just to shut people down.

I don't see Crosswire as being a target by microsoft, but sometimes people
with intent to harm license technology just to make it something to
rattle... I'd feel a lot more comfortable using a known-opensource
technology.

It would make production easy if it was supported.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 11:41 AM ref...@crosswire.org 
wrote:

> A while back I wrote about Bibleworks and its legacy. As part of my
> further research I found that Bibleworks uses instead of a GenBook format
> for user supplied books of that category the CHM format.
>
> How ubiquitous is CHM on our platforms? If all platforms can use it , we
> could probably tap into a huge GenBook like module library - specifically
> for textual research - for very little extra effort.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> Petee
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
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Re: [sword-devel] Chinese locale. Protestant vs. Catholic

[Michael H]

I think a configuration in the front ends which allows the user to select
the menu selection from a list

Current work's abbreviations (changes for each work)
Language setting (locale)
A specific installed work's abbreviations
Custom (user entered).
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Re: [sword-devel] Sidebars

[Michael H]

I suggested off-list that the text of the sidebars be moved to the
introduction of each book, and a cross reference to the new location be
maintained where it originally appeared.

I do like the multi module idea, but with some texts the license may be
stretched with this presentation, unless there is a good way to import all
parts from a catalog listing at one time. That is where sidebars form part
of a work (singular) breaking them into an alternate work may violate the
terms of not just the license to crossfire, but also the sidebar content
typically is separately authored and copyrighted, and the license to the
authors may have restrictions.

On Wed, May 22, 2019, 9:59 PM Karl Kleinpaste  wrote:

> On 5/21/19 2:41 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>
> Any alternative suggestions or thoughts?
>
> NET's extensive footnotes, though paper-published inline, are offered as a
> separate commentary module, which works quite well.
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Re: [sword-devel] Bible in Myanmar

[Michael H]

I've been working long hours and emailing in my break time.  David has the
basics of converting to VPL.

I would then make the entire work a column in a spreadsheet.

Then in other collumns insert a list of Book/chapter/verse in order.

The BCV and versetext  columns should align and can be verified, and
adjusted where things don't match perfectly, like maybe 3 John has 15
instead of 14 verses.

Once the columns align, you can merge them into another column via
concatenation operations (&).  This last column becomes your output.

The output needs to consider that section titles and section ranges belong
in front of the verse marker. That is a bit more complex search and
replace, but can be done successfully.



On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:12 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> The attachment contains a counted list of Myanmar words containing a font
> conversion error.
> *NB. We need to match these words with what they are in the legacy font.*
>
> This issue should be discussed with the current maintainer of the SIL
> *TECkit* converter, whoever that may be.
>
> It may be worthwhile asking our friends at the SIL *Writing Systems
> Technology* team. See
> https://scripts.sil.org/default
>
> *Aside: My friend Martin Hosken of SIL knew the late Keith Stribley - the
> former webmaster of ThanLwinSoft.*
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:41 PM, David Haslam 
> wrote:
>
> *Observations: (continued)*
>
> 5. The string "*Kd;*" also looks anomalous. It's found only once in
> ကိုယ်တော်၏ဦးခေါင်းတော်အပေါ်၌ လည်း ဤသူသည်ကား ဂျူးလူမျ Kd;တို့၏ဘုရင်၊
>
> 6. It's evident from the PDF file that the text is paragraphed with
> indented first lines. See
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/do5e675i19xfomf/Screenshot%202019-05-15%2016.29.10.png?dl=0
>
> My hunch is that these leading paragraph indents may have been coded
> within contents.xml as the self-closing element **. There are
> 372 matches to this.
>
> So not only do we need to provide chapter and verse tags (plus section
> headings & parallel passage titles, etc), we also need to reconstruct all
> the paragraph tags.
>
> *NB. All structural XML indents were removed by the filter "Remove blanks
> at SOL" in the file **contents.pp.tx** that was output by my simple
> TextPipe filter. So that's quite a different matter.*
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 2:22 PM, David Haslam 
> wrote:
>
> *Observations: (continued)*
>
> 4. In addition to the reported instances of the anomalous 3 characters (
> *È,Ø,ò*) found after the font conversion,
> there are 6 instances of the string "*m;*" that are also probably due to
> bugs in the converter.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with ProtonMail  Secure Email.
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 12:41 PM, David Haslam 
> wrote:
>
> Yep - sure - later I can do that.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:26, Cyrille  wrote:
>
> David I have no count in box, and I want not to create one. Can you push
> on https://framadrop.org/ it's totally free and secure (and private).
> Thank  you.
>
>
> Il 15/05/2019 11:46, David Haslam ha scritto:
>
> Interim progress report.
>
> I downloaded the file Mat_utf8.zip from Cyrille's link and unzipped the 
> contents to Mat_utf8-odt
>
> I opened the .odt file using 7-Zip from the Windows Explorer context menu, 
> and extracted the file contents.xml
>
> I used Notepad++ plug-in XMLTools to pretty print the XML file and saved it 
> as contents.pp.xml
> This is simply a layout change that's easier to read.
>
> I viewed the .pp.xml file in BabelPad, which confirmed that the non-XML text 
> was (mostly) Myanmar Unicode.
>
> I used a TextPipe filter to remove all XML tags, blanks from SOL & EOL and 
> all blank lines.
> The output file is now contents.pp.txt
>
> This is now something that's readable content in Myanmar Unicode, with some 
> English text such as "The Gospel according Matthew" near the start.
>
> The file is best viewed using BabelPad with the option Display Colours | 
> Colour Code by Script.
> This shows Myanmar characters in light green, and non-Myanmar characters in 
> other colours.
>
> Observations:
> 1. The font conversion to Unicode left a few scattered characters 
> unconverted. :(
>
> C8È   18  LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH GRAVE
> D8Ø   20  LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE
> F2ò   3   LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH GRAVE
>
> The complete character frequency analysis is attached.
>
> 2. A few verse numbers? are still present here and there.
> 3. The content contains section headings and parallel passage headings as 
> well as verse text.
>
> I have just uploaded the file contents.pp.zip to a new folder in my Box 
> 

Re: [sword-devel] Bible in Myanmar

[Michael H]

If the text doesn't come from an active team with people who read Burmese:
I am on another group list which has relationships with people working on
minority languages related to Burmese, but not Myanmarese. I can ask if
anyone can verify the unicode conversion works there if that's the only
option.


On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 7:34 PM Michael H  wrote:

> I don't read Burmese and I don't know anyone who does. I was suggesting
> you contact whoever provided you the files and permission, and ask them if
> they can verify the unicode text reads correctly.
>
> To a native speaker, the text will quickly be recognized as readable, or
> misspelled (letters are out of place.) It's better to check that now than
> spend a lot of time on the numbering.
>
> In regard to the verse numbering.  What I described (insert markers based
> on a reg ex search, then apply markup based on a sequential list) would
> take me about 2-4 hours to complete.  At the end of that the text will have
> proper USFM tags for book titles, section titles,  section
> references/ranges, chapter numbers, and verse numbers.  It will need to be
> checked that the verse numbers are well placed.  This is depending on the
> text not having issues on my machine.  I haven't tested all my tools to
> respect Burmese text.
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Bible in Myanmar

[Michael H]

I don't read Burmese and I don't know anyone who does. I was suggesting you
contact whoever provided you the files and permission, and ask them if they
can verify the unicode text reads correctly.

To a native speaker, the text will quickly be recognized as readable, or
misspelled (letters are out of place.) It's better to check that now than
spend a lot of time on the numbering.

In regard to the verse numbering.  What I described (insert markers based
on a reg ex search, then apply markup based on a sequential list) would
take me about 2-4 hours to complete.  At the end of that the text will have
proper USFM tags for book titles, section titles,  section
references/ranges, chapter numbers, and verse numbers.  It will need to be
checked that the verse numbers are well placed.  This is depending on the
text not having issues on my machine.  I haven't tested all my tools to
respect Burmese text.
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Re: [sword-devel] Bible in Myanmar

[Michael H]

You should be able to configure a regex search to find the verse
boundaries.

Once you have verse boundaries, if you configure the text into Verse per
line it should be possible to assign each row a chapter and verse number
from a reference. That is, the 3341 verse in the New Testament is usually
John 20:31 (I don't have that memorized, just an example.)

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 3:22 PM Cyrille  wrote:

> Ok thank you!  I have already all the text in unicode but without the
> verse numbers and chapters... I begun manually...
>
> Il 14/05/2019 22:17, David Haslam ha scritto:
>
> Hi Cyrille
>
> If I can find the time tomorrow or later, I’ll have a look at what might
> be feasible.
>
> Thanks for all these useful links.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 14:08, Cyrille  wrote:
>
> I send my message again because it was bigger.
>
> The conversion to UTF-8 is 99% solved!! I used a online converter:
>
> https://thanlwinsoft.github.io/www.thanlwinsoft.org/ThanLwinSoft/MyanmarUnicode/Conversion/myanmarConverter.html
> or:
> http://burglish.my-mm.org/latest/trunk/web/fontconv.htm
>
> See the result here
> <https://framadrop.org/r/jKnYnvuQIH#mE+FWcvzD1N/Omnfr7uWMZmI/HZUUVPdvnVVkBFyFrA=>
> .
>
> Now the only problem is how to get the verse and chapter number...
>
>
> Il 14/05/2019 13:53, Michael H ha scritto:
>
> Cyrille, (Peter),
>
> Maybe further discussion on this belongs in Gitlab as issues.  Can I get
> added to this project?
>
> Here are the first few lines of Matthew copied from the PDF:
> --
> OD; {0Ha*vdusrf;
> The Gospel According to Matthew
> ed'gef;
> usr;f ûyy*k Kd¾v f  rf maw;O;D \b0rwS wf r;f
> usr;f ûyy*k Kd¾v f  rf maw;O;Don f *gavav;,e,rf S*sL;vrl sK;d tmvaf
> z;O;D \om;jzp\f / (rmu k2;14)
> olonf tcGefcHoltjzpf trIxrf;chJonf/ (vk 5;27)
> a,Zl;ocif\aemufvdkufwynfhrjzpfrD ol\trnfrSm
> av0djzp\f / ool n f wad b;&,d tidk tf e;DwGi f a,Z;lociEf iS ahf wG U Ny;D
>
> -
> And here are the first few lines of Matthew copied from the Pagemaker
> file:
> -
> Sifrmaw;OD; {0Ha*vdusrf;
> The Gospel According to Matthew
> ed'gef;
> usrf;�yyk*�dKvf  OD;\b0rSwfwrf;
> usrf;�yyk*�dKvf  OD;onf  *gavav;,e,frS *sL;vlrsKd;
> tmvfaz;OD;\om;jzpf\/ (rmuk 2;14) olonf  tcGefcHoltjzpf trIxrf;chJonf/ (vk
> 5;27) a,Zl;ocif\aemufvdkufwynfhrjzpfrD  ol\trnfrSm av0djzpf\/ olonf
> wdab;,tkdifteD;wGif  a,Zl;ocifESifhawGU  NyD;
>
>
> You can see that some letters have changed, and some others are in a
> different order.
>
> The letters that change are likely those points that aren't compatible
> with unicode, and pagemaker reassigned them to ensure that the file is more
> widely viewable. Since a conversion is already planned, these won't matter
> as much, but the font embedded in the PDF is different than the font
> attached to the pagemaker file,  If you do start from the PDF, you'll need
> to extract the font to get the code points.
>
> The problem is that the PDF export from pagemaker sorts the letters into
> the order they appear on the page.  Burmese text has Indian style
> ligatures, where vowels tend to jump over or under the previous letters,
> sometimes back 2 or three letters. If you study the following snippets from
> the beginning of Matthew, you can see there is a difference in order, as
> well as some glyphs are modified.
>
> So, from the PDF letters are out of order, but from Pagemaker, letters are
> encoded into control points. Fixing the control points is easy and happens
> with the unicode conversion.  Fixing the letter order is not easy. You'll
> need a first language speaker and plenty of time.
>
> The guidance I received on another group was to use either LO Draw or
> Indesign to export the text from Pagemaker.  I'll look into LO Draw again,
> but I don't have access to an older version of Indesign (the pagemaker
> import was removed in CS6).
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Michael H  wrote:
>
>> I unzipped the pagemaker file, and when I open NT_Proverb/Pagemaker
>> (10.1mb), with a Hex editor, I can 'find' all of the book names, and see
>> the text there.
>>
>> To see the raw text: rename NT_Proverb.pmd > NT_Proverb.zip and open it
>> with a zip archive progeram.  The text is in the Pagemaker file at the top
>> level of the archive, but encoded with a lot of extraneous information.
>> (The English text "Matthew" appears at hex location 7A76972).
>>
>> When I open the fonts with fontforge, Fontforge suggests the fonts are
>> encoded as unicode (but the glyphs are obviously not in the right spot.)
>> However when I copy the text (I copied from LO Draw) and paste it into

Re: [sword-devel] Bible in Myanmar

[Michael H]

Cyrille, did you start from the PDF or the pagemaker file? Either way, you
should send a snippet to your source and validate the words are still
readable. As small as 30 words should be enough.

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 8:09 AM Cyrille  wrote:

> I send my message again because it was bigger.
>
> The conversion to UTF-8 is 99% solved!! I used a online converter:
>
> https://thanlwinsoft.github.io/www.thanlwinsoft.org/ThanLwinSoft/MyanmarUnicode/Conversion/myanmarConverter.html
> or:
> http://burglish.my-mm.org/latest/trunk/web/fontconv.htm
>
> See the result here
> <https://framadrop.org/r/jKnYnvuQIH#mE+FWcvzD1N/Omnfr7uWMZmI/HZUUVPdvnVVkBFyFrA=>
> .
>
> Now the only problem is how to get the verse and chapter number...
>
>
> Il 14/05/2019 13:53, Michael H ha scritto:
>
> Cyrille, (Peter),
>
> Maybe further discussion on this belongs in Gitlab as issues.  Can I get
> added to this project?
>
> Here are the first few lines of Matthew copied from the PDF:
> --
> OD; {0Ha*vdusrf;
> The Gospel According to Matthew
> ed'gef;
> usr;f ûyy*k Kd¾v f  rf maw;O;D \b0rwS wf r;f
> usr;f ûyy*k Kd¾v f  rf maw;O;Don f *gavav;,e,rf S*sL;vrl sK;d tmvaf
> z;O;D \om;jzp\f / (rmu k2;14)
> olonf tcGefcHoltjzpf trIxrf;chJonf/ (vk 5;27)
> a,Zl;ocif\aemufvdkufwynfhrjzpfrD ol\trnfrSm
> av0djzp\f / ool n f wad b;&,d tidk tf e;DwGi f a,Z;lociEf iS ahf wG U Ny;D
>
> -
> And here are the first few lines of Matthew copied from the Pagemaker
> file:
> -
> Sifrmaw;OD; {0Ha*vdusrf;
> The Gospel According to Matthew
> ed'gef;
> usrf;�yyk*�dKvf  OD;\b0rSwfwrf;
> usrf;�yyk*�dKvf  OD;onf  *gavav;,e,frS *sL;vlrsKd;
> tmvfaz;OD;\om;jzpf\/ (rmuk 2;14) olonf  tcGefcHoltjzpf trIxrf;chJonf/ (vk
> 5;27) a,Zl;ocif\aemufvdkufwynfhrjzpfrD  ol\trnfrSm av0djzpf\/ olonf
> wdab;,tkdifteD;wGif  a,Zl;ocifESifhawGU  NyD;
>
>
> You can see that some letters have changed, and some others are in a
> different order.
>
> The letters that change are likely those points that aren't compatible
> with unicode, and pagemaker reassigned them to ensure that the file is more
> widely viewable. Since a conversion is already planned, these won't matter
> as much, but the font embedded in the PDF is different than the font
> attached to the pagemaker file,  If you do start from the PDF, you'll need
> to extract the font to get the code points.
>
> The problem is that the PDF export from pagemaker sorts the letters into
> the order they appear on the page.  Burmese text has Indian style
> ligatures, where vowels tend to jump over or under the previous letters,
> sometimes back 2 or three letters. If you study the following snippets from
> the beginning of Matthew, you can see there is a difference in order, as
> well as some glyphs are modified.
>
> So, from the PDF letters are out of order, but from Pagemaker, letters are
> encoded into control points. Fixing the control points is easy and happens
> with the unicode conversion.  Fixing the letter order is not easy. You'll
> need a first language speaker and plenty of time.
>
> The guidance I received on another group was to use either LO Draw or
> Indesign to export the text from Pagemaker.  I'll look into LO Draw again,
> but I don't have access to an older version of Indesign (the pagemaker
> import was removed in CS6).
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Michael H  wrote:
>
>> I unzipped the pagemaker file, and when I open NT_Proverb/Pagemaker
>> (10.1mb), with a Hex editor, I can 'find' all of the book names, and see
>> the text there.
>>
>> To see the raw text: rename NT_Proverb.pmd > NT_Proverb.zip and open it
>> with a zip archive progeram.  The text is in the Pagemaker file at the top
>> level of the archive, but encoded with a lot of extraneous information.
>> (The English text "Matthew" appears at hex location 7A76972).
>>
>> When I open the fonts with fontforge, Fontforge suggests the fonts are
>> encoded as unicode (but the glyphs are obviously not in the right spot.)
>> However when I copy the text (I copied from LO Draw) and paste it into
>> jedit and save that as unicode: Reopening the file has a warning 'not
>> unicode, text may be missing'.
>>
>> So, what this means is that there are some glyphs encoded into locations
>> that unicode treats as control or non-printing codes. The text needs to be
>> dealt with as a specific encoding that matches whatever the original font
>> actually uses. I haven't figured out what the original text files were
>> encoded with. Without that knowledge, I'm not sure my system clipboard or
>> editor (jedit) will properly respect the glyphs in unusual locations until
>> the conversio

Re: [sword-devel] Bible in Myanmar

[Michael H]

Cyrille, (Peter),

Maybe further discussion on this belongs in Gitlab as issues.  Can I get
added to this project?

Here are the first few lines of Matthew copied from the PDF:
--
OD; {0Ha*vdusrf;
The Gospel According to Matthew
ed'gef;
usr;f ûyy*k Kd¾v f  rf maw;O;D \b0rwS wf r;f
usr;f ûyy*k Kd¾v f  rf maw;O;Don f *gavav;,e,rf S*sL;vrl sK;d tmvaf
z;O;D \om;jzp\f / (rmu k2;14)
olonf tcGefcHoltjzpf trIxrf;chJonf/ (vk 5;27)
a,Zl;ocif\aemufvdkufwynfhrjzpfrD ol\trnfrSm
av0djzp\f / ool n f wad b;&,d tidk tf e;DwGi f a,Z;lociEf iS ahf wG U Ny;D

-
And here are the first few lines of Matthew copied from the Pagemaker file:
-
Sifrmaw;OD; {0Ha*vdusrf;
The Gospel According to Matthew
ed'gef;
usrf;�yyk*�dKvf  OD;\b0rSwfwrf;
usrf;�yyk*�dKvf  OD;onf  *gavav;,e,frS *sL;vlrsKd;
tmvfaz;OD;\om;jzpf\/ (rmuk 2;14) olonf  tcGefcHoltjzpf trIxrf;chJonf/ (vk
5;27) a,Zl;ocif\aemufvdkufwynfhrjzpfrD  ol\trnfrSm av0djzpf\/ olonf
wdab;,tkdifteD;wGif  a,Zl;ocifESifhawGU  NyD;


You can see that some letters have changed, and some others are in a
different order.

The letters that change are likely those points that aren't compatible with
unicode, and pagemaker reassigned them to ensure that the file is more
widely viewable. Since a conversion is already planned, these won't matter
as much, but the font embedded in the PDF is different than the font
attached to the pagemaker file,  If you do start from the PDF, you'll need
to extract the font to get the code points.

The problem is that the PDF export from pagemaker sorts the letters into
the order they appear on the page.  Burmese text has Indian style
ligatures, where vowels tend to jump over or under the previous letters,
sometimes back 2 or three letters. If you study the following snippets from
the beginning of Matthew, you can see there is a difference in order, as
well as some glyphs are modified.

So, from the PDF letters are out of order, but from Pagemaker, letters are
encoded into control points. Fixing the control points is easy and happens
with the unicode conversion.  Fixing the letter order is not easy. You'll
need a first language speaker and plenty of time.

The guidance I received on another group was to use either LO Draw or
Indesign to export the text from Pagemaker.  I'll look into LO Draw again,
but I don't have access to an older version of Indesign (the pagemaker
import was removed in CS6).


On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Michael H  wrote:

> I unzipped the pagemaker file, and when I open NT_Proverb/Pagemaker
> (10.1mb), with a Hex editor, I can 'find' all of the book names, and see
> the text there.
>
> To see the raw text: rename NT_Proverb.pmd > NT_Proverb.zip and open it
> with a zip archive progeram.  The text is in the Pagemaker file at the top
> level of the archive, but encoded with a lot of extraneous information.
> (The English text "Matthew" appears at hex location 7A76972).
>
> When I open the fonts with fontforge, Fontforge suggests the fonts are
> encoded as unicode (but the glyphs are obviously not in the right spot.)
> However when I copy the text (I copied from LO Draw) and paste it into
> jedit and save that as unicode: Reopening the file has a warning 'not
> unicode, text may be missing'.
>
> So, what this means is that there are some glyphs encoded into locations
> that unicode treats as control or non-printing codes. The text needs to be
> dealt with as a specific encoding that matches whatever the original font
> actually uses. I haven't figured out what the original text files were
> encoded with. Without that knowledge, I'm not sure my system clipboard or
> editor (jedit) will properly respect the glyphs in unusual locations until
> the conversion to unicode, and I don't trust myself to be able to detect if
> it is or is not properly converted.
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 10:11 AM Cyrille  wrote:
>
>> David,
>> Probably you are right about TECkit
>> <http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi_id=TECkit>,
>> if we get the text it will help us to convert in UNICODE.
>> About how to get the text, your method is out of my skills :)
>> I you succeed please let me know.
>>
>> Il 13/05/2019 16:21, David Haslam ha scritto:
>>
>> Given the insights from Michael Hart, it may be feasible to temporarily
>> rearrange the main text stream as follows :
>>
>> 1. Replace every EOL by a horizontal tab.
>> 2. Insert an EOL after each verse end character.
>>
>> Observe that the above two steps are wholly reversible such that the
>> original text stream can be restored later.
>>
>> In effect the text stream is now in verse per line (VPL) layout, albeit
>> without verse tags. Some adjustments may be necessary if there any section
>> headings, etc.
>>
>> 3. Add line numbers with the first num

Re: [sword-devel] Bible in Myanmar

[Michael H]

I unzipped the pagemaker file, and when I open NT_Proverb/Pagemaker
(10.1mb), with a Hex editor, I can 'find' all of the book names, and see
the text there.

To see the raw text: rename NT_Proverb.pmd > NT_Proverb.zip and open it
with a zip archive progeram.  The text is in the Pagemaker file at the top
level of the archive, but encoded with a lot of extraneous information.
(The English text "Matthew" appears at hex location 7A76972).

When I open the fonts with fontforge, Fontforge suggests the fonts are
encoded as unicode (but the glyphs are obviously not in the right spot.)
However when I copy the text (I copied from LO Draw) and paste it into
jedit and save that as unicode: Reopening the file has a warning 'not
unicode, text may be missing'.

So, what this means is that there are some glyphs encoded into locations
that unicode treats as control or non-printing codes. The text needs to be
dealt with as a specific encoding that matches whatever the original font
actually uses. I haven't figured out what the original text files were
encoded with. Without that knowledge, I'm not sure my system clipboard or
editor (jedit) will properly respect the glyphs in unusual locations until
the conversion to unicode, and I don't trust myself to be able to detect if
it is or is not properly converted.

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 10:11 AM Cyrille  wrote:

> David,
> Probably you are right about TECkit
> <http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi_id=TECkit>,
> if we get the text it will help us to convert in UNICODE.
> About how to get the text, your method is out of my skills :)
> I you succeed please let me know.
>
> Il 13/05/2019 16:21, David Haslam ha scritto:
>
> Given the insights from Michael Hart, it may be feasible to temporarily
> rearrange the main text stream as follows :
>
> 1. Replace every EOL by a horizontal tab.
> 2. Insert an EOL after each verse end character.
>
> Observe that the above two steps are wholly reversible such that the
> original text stream can be restored later.
>
> In effect the text stream is now in verse per line (VPL) layout, albeit
> without verse tags. Some adjustments may be necessary if there any section
> headings, etc.
>
> 3. Add line numbers with the first number being reset to 1 at the start of
> each chapter, numbers incrementing by 1 for each line.
> 4. Add a left margin USFM verse tag \v_
>
> Steps 3&4 can be implemented in various ways. For my part, I’d use a
> bespoke TextPipe filter.
>
> Another method to consider might be to use Excel formulae. I recall
> resorting to such a method in the early days of Go Bible.
>
> Now restore the original layout by reverting steps 2 & 1, if this is
> really necessary. That is, if the original text layout appeared to be
> paragraphed.
>
> 5. Decide how & where to insert paragraph tags.
>
> 6. Add chapter tags, book ID and main title tags, etc.
>
> Hope this gives some useful suggestions that point towards a practical
> solution.
>
> Best regards
>
> David
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 14:57, Michael H  wrote:
>
> Cyrille
>
> LibreOffice Draw attempts to open the pagemaker file, with limited
> success. But it confirms that even in the pagemaker source, the verse
> numbers are a separate text stream. With this source, there is no way to
> copy the text with verse numbers intact. It appears to be stored with each
> book in it's own text stream. Each book is a separate text stream in the
> page maker file. LO Draw isn't rendering all of the pages, only the first
> 10, So I've only explored Matthew further.
>
> Based on Matthew only, the verses seem to all end with the character "-"
> or ";/", which should aid in the reconstruction. I've looked through the
> PDF and this seems to be the case for all books visually as well. However,
> this isn't perfect: I find 1107 of these characters in Matthew, instead of
> the expected 1071 verses.  But since the text stream has a book
> introduction, this is likely easily explained. Hopefully this gets you well
> down the path to creating a stream with verses.
>
> I would NOT start from the PDF file, but from the pagemaker file.  The PDF
> almost certainly has a lot of text rearranging and extra characters like
> page numbers and running heads.  Pagemaker has the book text in a single
> stream, in a form that will convert to unicode relatively easily.
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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> sword-devel ma

Re: [sword-devel] Bible in Myanmar

[Michael H]

Cyrille

LibreOffice Draw attempts to open the pagemaker file, with limited success.
But it confirms that even in the pagemaker source, the verse numbers are a
separate text stream. With this source, there is no way to copy the text
with verse numbers intact. It appears to be stored with each book in it's
own text stream. Each book is a separate text stream in the page maker
file. LO Draw isn't rendering all of the pages, only the first 10, So I've
only explored Matthew further.

Based on Matthew only, the verses seem to all end with the character "-" or
";/", which should aid in the reconstruction. I've looked through the PDF
and this seems to be the case for all books visually as well. However, this
isn't perfect: I find 1107 of these characters in Matthew, instead of the
expected 1071 verses.  But since the text stream has a book introduction,
this is likely easily explained. Hopefully this gets you well down the path
to creating a stream with verses.

I would NOT start from the PDF file, but from the pagemaker file.  The PDF
almost certainly has a lot of text rearranging and extra characters like
page numbers and running heads.  Pagemaker has the book text in a single
stream, in a form that will convert to unicode relatively easily.
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Re: [sword-devel] Module upload: CPDV

[Michael H]

re: CPDV.conf

It is also NOT a Latin work, but should still be listed as English.

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:39 AM Michael H  wrote:

> Re: CPDV updated version
>
> The CPDV.conf dated today does not have a version number in it. The
> history suggests it should show version 2.1. I'm not seeing it as an update
> on Bibletime.
>
> ftp://crosswire.org/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/cpdv.conf
>
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:01 AM David Haslam  wrote:
>
>> Please inform us the CPDV version.
>>
>> From PocketSword I still see 1.0.1 after the source refresh. But that’s
>> what was already installed.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 14:30, ref...@gmx.net  wrote:
>>
>> Again, this was a text which had not made it onto the new server. Please
>> ignore otherwise
>>
>> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
>> autocorrects.
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> Subject: [sword-devel] Module upload: CPDV
>> From: ref...@crosswire.org
>> To: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>> CC:
>>
>>
>> Dear All,
>> This is to announce that we have just now uploaded CPDV.
>> This is is an updated version of CPDV.
>> Many thanks to Cyrille for the hard work.
>>
>> yours
>>
>> The Module Team
>>
>> P.S.: This email is sent automatically on upload of a new/updated module
>>
>> ___
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>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Module upload: CPDV

[Michael H]

Re: CPDV updated version

The CPDV.conf dated today does not have a version number in it. The history
suggests it should show version 2.1. I'm not seeing it as an update on
Bibletime.

ftp://crosswire.org/pub/sword/raw/mods.d/cpdv.conf


On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:01 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> Please inform us the CPDV version.
>
> From PocketSword I still see 1.0.1 after the source refresh. But that’s
> what was already installed.
>
> Regards.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 14:30, ref...@gmx.net  wrote:
>
> Again, this was a text which had not made it onto the new server. Please
> ignore otherwise
>
> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
> autocorrects.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: [sword-devel] Module upload: CPDV
> From: ref...@crosswire.org
> To: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> CC:
>
>
> Dear All,
> This is to announce that we have just now uploaded CPDV.
> This is is an updated version of CPDV.
> Many thanks to Cyrille for the hard work.
>
> yours
>
> The Module Team
>
> P.S.: This email is sent automatically on upload of a new/updated module
>
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> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Sword front-ends, the clipboard and social media

[Michael H]

I like the plan to improve copy functions over plain text. However, it
might be more feasible and productive to copy a (possibly simplified) html
snippet to the clipboard rather than producing presentation glyphs that may
or may not render in many apps where fallback fonts may or may not be
available.

That is, when I copy-paste a web page into Office, I have to choose whether
to import the formatted html, or just the plain text. However, when I paste
the same clipboard item into a simple text editor, the formatted option
isn't present. A similar approach for sword front ends would fit the user
expectation of a rich copy, but also be more likely to succeed in all
cases.

Is there already a sword front end that already has this rich copy enabled
(even for a subset of the allowable markups?)

(And related to the implied reason why this capability is missing:)

In addition to improving the functionality of the text rendering for
copy/paste, the configuration files should probably be improved to include
a "copy-allowed" item (and "print-allowed" if/where applicable.) That is,
be able to restrict the copy function when the license provided doesn't
include even limited copying. This will help to undo the risk of
pass-through copying en-mass.

On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 11:00 AM David Haslam  wrote:

> When pasting a Bible passage from the clipboard to Social media, text
> styles are usually squished.
>
> This often means that superscripted verse tags just become ordinary
> numbers.
> Some front-ends even leave no space between the verse tag and the start of
> verse text.
> The result in social media is a tad ugly.
>
> Surely we could do better?
>
> One bright idea implemented externally by one of our members is simple
> enough for us to consider adding as a new filter in the SWORD API.
>
> Convert verse number digits to Unicode superscript digits, ⁰¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹
>
> NB. These special 10 characters are not in a continuous block.
>
> How front-ends might include the filter such that copying a passage to the
> clipboard would automatically make use of these special characters is yet
> to be determined, but if the idea is not yet discussed, we’ll not make any
> progress.
>
> Aside: I made my own TextPipe filter to convert digits to these special
> characters.
> I included a restriction to avoid converting chapter numbers.
> I did not yet consider what to do about digits that are part of verse text
> (such as 144,000).
>
> Even so, how do software developers feel about the concept ?
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
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Re: [sword-devel] Module upload: CPDV

[Michael H]

Correction: Earlier I went to ftp://crosswire.org to get the updated
version.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 11:39 AM Michael H  wrote:

> Bibletime didn't see the update, so I went to ftp.crosswire.org and
> downloaded it manually, and it is the new edition. I did this several hours
> ago, before your email.
>
> But now when I do the same thing (ftp.crosswire.org), it is the older
> module (2015 timestamp on the conf file.)
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 7:40 AM Cyrille  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Il 18/04/2019 14:29, Peter Von Kaehne ha scritto:
>>
>> The module is visible in crosswire.org. The module is not visible in
>> ftp.crosswire.org.
>>
>> Yes, I added a repo without the ftp, only crosswire.org and I can see
>> both CPDV and ItNomibbia.
>>
>> The module is uploaded into host.crosswire.org, which is where I am told
>> I should upload things until all is again amalgamated.
>>
>> TBH I am fed up. The proliferation of urls leading to different
>> instantations of our server, old and new is a bit of a problem.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. April 2019 um 13:05 Uhr
>> *Von:* "Karl Kleinpaste"  
>> *An:* "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" 
>> 
>> *Betreff:* Re: [sword-devel] Module upload: CPDV
>> On 4/18/19 6:53 AM, Peter Von Kaehne wrote:
>>
>> uses the same module manager as Xiphos
>>
>> Crosswire's mods.d.tar.gz was not regenerated after the update. That's
>> why Xiphos doesn't see it after refresh.
>>
>> $ pwd
>> /home/karl/.sword/InstallMgr/20081216195754/mods.d
>> $ ls -l cpdv.conf
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 karl karl 2257 Jan 16  2014 cpdv.conf
>> $ ls -lc cpdv.conf
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 karl karl 2257 Apr 18 07:59 cpdv.conf
>> $ grep ^Version cpdv.conf
>> Version=1.0.1
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Module upload: CPDV

[Michael H]

Bibletime didn't see the update, so I went to ftp.crosswire.org and
downloaded it manually, and it is the new edition. I did this several hours
ago, before your email.

But now when I do the same thing (ftp.crosswire.org), it is the older
module (2015 timestamp on the conf file.)

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 7:40 AM Cyrille  wrote:

>
>
> Il 18/04/2019 14:29, Peter Von Kaehne ha scritto:
>
> The module is visible in crosswire.org. The module is not visible in
> ftp.crosswire.org.
>
> Yes, I added a repo without the ftp, only crosswire.org and I can see
> both CPDV and ItNomibbia.
>
> The module is uploaded into host.crosswire.org, which is where I am told
> I should upload things until all is again amalgamated.
>
> TBH I am fed up. The proliferation of urls leading to different
> instantations of our server, old and new is a bit of a problem.
>
> Peter
>
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. April 2019 um 13:05 Uhr
> *Von:* "Karl Kleinpaste"  
> *An:* "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" 
> 
> *Betreff:* Re: [sword-devel] Module upload: CPDV
> On 4/18/19 6:53 AM, Peter Von Kaehne wrote:
>
> uses the same module manager as Xiphos
>
> Crosswire's mods.d.tar.gz was not regenerated after the update. That's why
> Xiphos doesn't see it after refresh.
>
> $ pwd
> /home/karl/.sword/InstallMgr/20081216195754/mods.d
> $ ls -l cpdv.conf
> -rw-r--r-- 1 karl karl 2257 Jan 16  2014 cpdv.conf
> $ ls -lc cpdv.conf
> -rw-r--r-- 1 karl karl 2257 Apr 18 07:59 cpdv.conf
> $ grep ^Version cpdv.conf
> Version=1.0.1
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Mapping Strongs numbers to translations that do not come with Strongs support

[Michael H]

I looked at the Linux version and its limited.  If you install the windows
version and find success, I'd like to know.

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 9:49 AM Tobias Klein  wrote:

> Thanks for the links, Michael. I'll have a look at Autographa.
>
> Best regards,
> Tobias
> On 13.04.19 14:03, Michael H wrote:
>
> The Unfolding Word Team is using Autographa for its "alignment" process
> (which means adding strongs numbers, but they also are working on fixing
> stray words into a common (UnfoldingWord) versification across languages,
> if I understand chat room babble.
>
> https://forum.ccbt.bible/t/gl-ugnt-alignment-process/101
>
> http://www.autographa.com/about/
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 6:52 AM Tobias Klein  wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Cool! Thanks for the hint! Do you happen to know whether that software
>> used by the STEP team is open source?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tobias
>> On 13.04.19 13:00, David Haslam wrote:
>>
>> This was done already by the Tyndale STEP team for adding Strong’s
>> Numbers to the ESV.
>>
>> They used bespoke software followed by manual adjustments.
>>
>> Ask David Instone-Brewer for details.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 11:33, Tobias Klein  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have an idea that I would like to run by you guys.
>>
>> Would it be possible to automatically map Strongs numbers to
>> translations that do not come with Strongs support?
>>
>> The approach would be like this:
>> - Take a translation that comes with Strongs numbers
>> - Map each word (and Strongs number) to a corresponding word in the
>> target translation, by using a regular dictionary
>>
>> There may be some validation / manual checking needed when there is not
>> a clear match between a word in the source translation and the target
>> translation.
>> Furthermore, this would probably only work with pairs of translations
>> that are both aiming to be literal. In that case the order of words
>> would be very similar and would increase chances of mapping
>> words/Strongs correctly.
>>
>> What do you think?
>> I'd be very happy to see Strongs mapped to German translations
>> specifically. But it could technically even work for English/English
>> translation mapping.
>>
>> Have a nice weekend!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tobias
>>
>>
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Re: [sword-devel] Mapping Strongs numbers to translations that do not come with Strongs support

[Michael H]

The Unfolding Word Team is using Autographa for its "alignment" process
(which means adding strongs numbers, but they also are working on fixing
stray words into a common (UnfoldingWord) versification across languages,
if I understand chat room babble.

https://forum.ccbt.bible/t/gl-ugnt-alignment-process/101

http://www.autographa.com/about/



On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 6:52 AM Tobias Klein  wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Cool! Thanks for the hint! Do you happen to know whether that software
> used by the STEP team is open source?
>
> Best regards,
> Tobias
> On 13.04.19 13:00, David Haslam wrote:
>
> This was done already by the Tyndale STEP team for adding Strong’s Numbers
> to the ESV.
>
> They used bespoke software followed by manual adjustments.
>
> Ask David Instone-Brewer for details.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 11:33, Tobias Klein  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have an idea that I would like to run by you guys.
>
> Would it be possible to automatically map Strongs numbers to
> translations that do not come with Strongs support?
>
> The approach would be like this:
> - Take a translation that comes with Strongs numbers
> - Map each word (and Strongs number) to a corresponding word in the
> target translation, by using a regular dictionary
>
> There may be some validation / manual checking needed when there is not
> a clear match between a word in the source translation and the target
> translation.
> Furthermore, this would probably only work with pairs of translations
> that are both aiming to be literal. In that case the order of words
> would be very similar and would increase chances of mapping
> words/Strongs correctly.
>
> What do you think?
> I'd be very happy to see Strongs mapped to German translations
> specifically. But it could technically even work for English/English
> translation mapping.
>
> Have a nice weekend!
>
> Best regards,
> Tobias
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Door43

[Michael H]

Michael,

That link is my hack of the Door43 catalog.  There is a (probably more
accurate) json version which frustrated my attempts to open due to line
length (1 row of text) freezing my editors. It probably will feed your
methods better. The Wycliffe Associates list  of 'published' projects is
described here:
https://forum.ccbt.bible/t/how-can-a-developer-access-door43-translations/187

This list contains a further 50+ projects, Translation Notes-'tn' and
Translation words-'tw', I am investigating these for converting to sword
dictionary and commentary modules, respectively.  This effort is an outcome
of David Haslam's recent suggestion to make a converter for markdown.

Is there a Sword compatible markup language common to Genbooks,
Commentaries, and Dictionaries that I can focus on converting Markdown to?

Note that the translation notes at Door43 are in process converting from
nearly marked up markdown files to spreadsheet format (snippets of markdown
with a lot of embedded data) apparently in order to accommodate what they
refer to as "alignment" that we would call 'strongs numbering' in the Sword
community. Since this is a hybrid, (undocumented, early alpha) I don't
currently have any plan to tackle the notes projects stored in tab
separated values files.

On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 12:56 AM Michael Johnson  wrote:

> Yes. I already have a few of them imported. I plan to import the rest to
> the eBible.org repository.
>
> On 4/5/19 8:37 PM, Michael H wrote:
> > There are currently 44 Bible Text projects on Door43 (Unfolding word).
> Is any repo willing to host these?
> >
> > Here's a list of the projects:
> >
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zq9ySjMA-Dui0-J91IqD03qe-d2LyCb50rdcitMcZSY/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > Most of these these use a simple USFM markup with a single custom tag
> (s5) which is used to align parallel displays and must be stripped from the
> text.
> >
> > There are a few (both English, Greek, Hebrew, and possibly Russian)
> which include strongs or a strongs-like markup, and will need a bit more
> effort to host.)
> >
> >
> > ___
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>
> --
> signature
>
> Aloha,
> */Michael Johnson/**
> PO BOX 881143 • PUKALANI HI 96788-1143*• USA
> mljohnson.org <http://mljohnson.org> • Phone: +1 808-333-6921 • Skype:
> kahunapule
>
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[sword-devel] Door43

[Michael H]

There are currently 44 Bible Text projects on Door43 (Unfolding word).  Is
any repo willing to host these?

Here's a list of the projects:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zq9ySjMA-Dui0-J91IqD03qe-d2LyCb50rdcitMcZSY/edit?usp=sharing

Most of these these use a simple USFM markup with a single custom tag (s5)
which is used to align parallel displays and must be stripped from the
text.

There are a few (both English, Greek, Hebrew, and possibly Russian) which
include strongs or a strongs-like markup, and will need a bit more effort
to host.)
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Re: [sword-devel] Osis Psalms canonical titles

[Michael H]

Have you tried scrolling up in Bibletime?  Bibletime sets the display to
start at verse 1 in each chapter.  If there is a Chapter title, intro,
verse zero or section title information, it is in the stream, but 'above'
the top of the display.

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 8:42 AM Cyrille  wrote:

> Ok I found the solution... The problem was due to a custom css. Using an
> other one gave me to display well the bible in BT.
>
> Il 31/03/2019 15:26, Cyrille ha scritto:
>
>
>
> Il 31/03/2019 14:42, DM Smith ha scritto:
>
> In the Bible, some translations the Psalm titles stand before verse 1.
> This is how the KJV does it. Other translations have it as verse 1.
>
> osis2mod tries to identify whether a title that stands before verse 1
> should be a chapter title (i.e. verse 0) or should be a verse title (i.e.
> verse 1). And it marks up titles in a fashion that SWORD engine expects.
> Dumping the module using mod2imp, will show how well or badly this was done.
>
> I think the problem here is the order of elements. So rather than
> … use  sID/>….
>
> I tried this way, and BT can display it, but there is a line break just
> after the verse number for Xiphos and for BT.
>
> The attribute canonical=“true” is supposed to tell the SWORD engine to
> always show the title. I think there are still problems with that. So, try
> turning Headers on, when you don’t see them.
>
> All the other titles are displayed.
>
> In Him,
> DM
>
> On Mar 31, 2019, at 5:13 AM, Cyrille  wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'm working on a text with canonical Psalms titles. When I convert it from
> usfm to osis I have this result:
> 
> 
> Invocazione mattutina del giusto perseguitato
> 
> 
>  osisID="Ps.3.1" n="1"/>Salmo di Davide quando fuggiva il figlio
> Assalonne.
> 
>   Signore,
> quanti sono i miei oppressori!
>   Molti contro di me insorgono.  eID="Ps.3.2"/>
>
> Is it correct? Because Bibletime doesn't display it
> .
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Platform for the distribution of non-free Sword Modules

[Michael H]

What's your target audience geographically?  Is this mostly non-English
speaking concern? or is the gap of material mostly English?

On a desktop (in English,) the gap that "free" can't currently fill is not
Bible Text, but in 20 and 21st century scholarship about Bible issues.  It
is very easy to see the text of practically any version of the Bible on a
desktop computer with an internet connection.  I nor any serious Bible
Scholar doesn't need those.

The Gap (in English) that "free" can't fill are the copyrighted libraries
of Logos and Accordance beyond the Bible text.

https://www.logos.com/compare/libraries

If you study that list, and make a list of "Can I access this online for
free?"  The Bibles all get check marks, but then the rest of those
$5000-3 Library items are all unchecked.  Some of these items I've run
into in discussions where my lack of access does leave me relying on
mentions in email and chat groups, not the primary source.

The priority that exists for open source libraries is the large library of
current and modern scholarship on the Bible that is locked behind near
perpetual copyrights. Lack of modern scholarship is one of many sources but
nearly a majority source of sectarian ideas like "KJVO" and the "mama
trinity."  These wacky topics have been debunked over and over in modern
scholarship.  And with true open libraries, KJVO and "mama trinity"
wouldn't even exist. (and I'm not suggesting here anything directly about
KJVO or a feminine member of the Trinity, those are just lead ins to
hitting that paywall I keep running into. You can freely insert your gaps
of knowledge that you study on but never find good materials for.)







On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 1:54 PM Tobias Klein  wrote:

> On 13.03.19 13:14, Dominique Corbex wrote:
> > In France, people use modern (non-free) translation too, but *printed*
> > Bibles.
> > Some people I know have installed Bible apps on their phones but are not
> willing to pay for a non-free version.
> > And for good reason, popular modern translation have their own free apps
> on Play Store:
> > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.com.SBG.s21)
> > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.book.bible.bds
> > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bible.jang.frpdv
> > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=bible.parole.de.vie
>
> Apps are often times available with non-free translations for free, but
> that's not the case for decent desktop bible study software.
> Even if the market is reduced to desktop bible study programs, that's
> still a rather large market where Sword-based software could increase
> its share.
> Desktop bible study software is often times used by people in ministries
> (teaching/preaching/bible study preparation). And these kind of users
> are usually also ready to pay.
>
> Best regards,
> Tobias
>
>
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Re: [sword-devel] Platform for the distribution of non-free Sword Modules

[Michael H]

I'm not really interested in accessing DBL content from within Sword that
isn't already provided. I don't think there's a lot there beside maybe 10
English works, and a few top European language works that we don't already
have access to.

I AM interested in the locked databases of *Logos* and *Accordance* being
available for the sword platform (cost or no cost.) If I had disposable
income, some items from those libraries would be a priority. To be clear,
Bibles that have a locked license on them tend to promote that ideal inside
them. While there are a few gaps in modern 'idealogy' on sword, there isn't
any critical loss of scriptural knowledge. However, even a half step away
from scripture itself (a Strongs dictionary less than 100 years old for
instance) IS something worth spending money on, and the worker is worth
their pay in these cases. However, that's not the focus of the DBL. If you
focus on the peripherals to scripture, and not on scripture itself, you'll
find warmer reception from consumers.

Good luck on getting copyright holders that aren't already embracing the
information age to do so.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 5:44 PM David Haslam  wrote:

> Peter,
>
> If I understand Tobias aright 
>
> It wouldn’t be CrossWire selling the copyright modules.
>
> A new ministry would be set up.
>
> All we’d need to do at some stage is to add their repository to our Master
> Repos List.
>
> Tobias can readily clarify if I’ve missed the main gist of his proposal.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 22:32, Peter von Kaehne  wrote:
>
> I would actively oppose this proposal.
>
> Leaving aside a few popular but otherwise irrelevant texts (NIV etc)
> there is nothing gained in this proposal. I do not want us to sell
> texts and by and large we get the texts we really want or need for
> free.
>
> DBL is a matter of concern - agreed. But not the rest.
>
> Peter
>
> On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 22:19 +, David Haslam wrote:
> > I first had to learn what the jargon meant - which just about
> > demonstrated that there are some aspects of this proposal for which
> > I’m not ideally suited.
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_state_transfer?wprov=sfti1
> >
> > David
> >
> > Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 22:11, Tobias Klein 
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm following up on the last thread that I started. Who would be
> > > interested in actively supporting the following idea:
> > >
> > > - Develop/set up an online platform that sells non-free Bible
> > > translations as locked Sword modules
> > > - Establish a non-profit that becomes a Library Card Holder @ The
> > > Digital Bible Library (DBL)
> > > - Negotiate with Bible Societies to actually get licenses for
> > > distributing specific non-free Bible translations
> > > - Develop a software that uses the DBL's REST API for automatically
> > > creating locked Sword modules
> > >
> > > Anyone interested? We would need:
> > > - People who handle communication/negotiation
> > > - People who know how to set up an online platform (ideally with
> > > web programming skills)
> > > - People who create the software that creates sword modules from
> > > the DBL REST API.
> > > - People with admin/accounting skills
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Tobias
> >
> >
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Re: [sword-devel] CrossWire repos?

[Michael H]

Is Pocketsword still able to download from alternate locations? That is,
can you download from xiphos or ebible?

It seems like there should be some is/is not that provides at least a
work-around in a comparative analysis of what is still working. Possibly
even symbolically linking back to crosswire from another repo.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 3:07 PM Troy A. Griffitts 
wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback.  When I get time, I'll try to expand the test
> application to not simply perform a directory listing, but to actually try
> to install a module via the CURLHTTPTransport driver.
> On 3/11/19 11:38 AM, Johan Marais wrote:
>
> Troy,
>
> I tried downloading 2 English bibles from CrossWire into PocketSword, but
> still the same, it took about 1 second to download and install, but nothing
> was installed.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Johan Marais
>
> On 11 Mar 2019, at 20:17, Troy A. Griffitts  wrote:
>
> I have checked the configuration of both servers and made the IndexOptions
> align exactly.  I didn't notice much of a change, but could someone please
> check if they can install modules from CrossWire now?
>
> I have also added a new test program which is not included in the build of
> standard test programs, but is available if anyone would like to look more
> deeply into the issue
>
> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/tests/httptest.cpp
>
> For the record, I created the test program after aligning the IndexOptions
> on the server didn't appear to me to make much difference (e.g., the date
> format was still the same), with the intent to debug the problem, but both
> URLs in the test program parsed directory listings just fine...  So...
> Either, something in the IndexOptions did indeed make a minor adjustment to
> the output which fixed the problem, or else the problem is something
> entirely different.
>
> Jaak,
>
> Yeah, of course we could create a generated index.html file for each
> folder and this would assure we could read the contents, but a goal is to
> keep deployment of these repositories easy for module publishers and http
> directory listings is only used by PocketSword.  Thanks for the suggestion.
>
> Troy
>
>
> On 3/8/19 12:08 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>
> Thanks Troy,
>
> Who’d have thought that a date format would be so critical ?
> It’s often the little things that catch us.
>
> Nic Carter has replied off list.
> He’s the pumpkin holder for PS.
>
> Aside: Does any other SWORD front-end use the same parsing code?
>
> When the new Apache server was configured, did we have a choice about the
> date format?
>
> Can a server setting be changed?
> Would that in effect mend the PS module installer?
> Without requiring any immediate work on PS.
> (And without breaking anything else)
>
> Finally, PS needs serious work to successfully recompile against iOS
> 12.1.x
> It’s a long time since the last PS release!
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 01:20, Troy A. Griffitts 
> wrote:
>
> So, here's my guess.  Nic uses HTTP instead of FTP to read our distro and
> does some magic to parse Apache httpd directory listings.  Here's our old
> server and here's our new (as DM sent previously).  There are some slight
> differences (notice the date format, at lease).
>
> old: https://guest.crosswire.org/ftpmirror/pub/sword/raw
> new: https://ftp.crosswire.org/ftpmirror/pub/sword/raw
>
> The parsing code is here:
>
> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/src/mgr/curlhttpt.cpp
>
> Who owns PocketSword these days?
>
> Troy
>
>
> On 3/7/19 1:18 PM, DM Smith wrote:
>
> The URL that PocketSword uses
> https://ftp.crosswire.org/ftpmirror/pub/sword/raw has no problems.
>
> DM
>
> On Mar 6, 2019, at 1:34 PM, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> Did DM find out anything?
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 13:43, DM Smith  wrote:
>
> I’ll look at the server this weekend to see if I can see a problem there.
>
> It’s not the certificate.
>
> — DM Smith
> From my phone. Brief. Weird autocorrections.
>
> On Mar 1, 2019, at 6:35 AM, David Haslam  wrote:
>
> Not just one device.
>
> My wife & I each have an iPad Mini as well as an iPhone.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 11:10, Tuomas Airaksinen <
> tuomas.airaksi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is this reproducible with other devices with PocketSword? Or only on this
> one device?
>
> Best regards,
> Tuomas
>
> pe 1. maalisk. 2019 klo 13.08 David Haslam (dfh...@protonmail.com)
> kirjoitti:
>
>> The symptom is that the download process indicator shows no progress and
>> then suddenly shows Done. Weird!
>>
>> How do we find root cause?
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 13:40, David Haslam 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Me too with Xiphos on Windows 7.
>>
>> So why all of a sudden has it stopped working for PocketSword?
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 10:23, Daniel Glassey 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I just