Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 10/07/2020 19.51, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 at 04:18, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: it is not so relevant for the international mailing list, because these things tend to work differently in different countries. Which proves the impossibility of trying to get one term to

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 at 00:33, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > - Semi-detached house: A set of row houses with exactly two connected > units. (IMO this is a somewhat stupid distinction likely created by > realtors for marketing purposes.) > & for us, that's a duplex eg

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

IMHO this discussion is going offtopic as we generally do not map ownership. If you want to dig deep into american legislation specifics only, it is not so relevant for the international mailing list, because these things tend to work differently in different countries. Cheers Martin

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Re: “a unit that is *sold* is not an "apartment" in America." While in most of the United States this is the common meaning of "apartment", in New York City (and nearby cities in the northeast) it is common to refer to buying an "apartment" in a Co-op building or a condominium building. In some

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 09/07/2020 21.51, Warin wrote: On 9/7/20 12:44 am, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: both is possible, each one can own a precise list of apartments, or both can own 50% of all apartments. Here apartments are usually sold separately, each as a title dead. Other than 100% ownership it would be

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 9/7/20 12:44 am, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 8. Jul 2020, at 16:17, Matthew Woehlke wrote: Really? If Alice and Bob each own 50% of "Fairview Heights Apartments", you would expect that there are legal property records indicating exactly which half of said complex is

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 08/07/2020 16.31, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: On 08/07/2020 12.34, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: BTW, is your project including something that can be tested already? I was referring to "traffic simulation project" mentioned in

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Jul 8, 2020, 19:02 by mwoehlke.fl...@gmail.com: > On 08/07/2020 12.34, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > >> BTW, is your project including something that can be tested already? >> > > I don't understand the question? > I was referring to "traffic simulation project" mentioned in

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging: > > > > 8 Jul 2020, 16:35 by elga...@agol.dk: > > Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > Disclaimer: this is all US law. If you live in another country, YMMV. > > > Yes, facts are not copyrightable. > > In Europe we unfortunately have the Database

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 08/07/2020 12.34, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: 8 Jul 2020, 16:44 by mwoehlke.fl...@gmail.com: On 08/07/2020 10.36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: On 8. Jul 2020, at 16:24, Matthew Woehlke wrote: (On which note... knowing that a residence is *also* a shop is potentially important!)

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

8 Jul 2020, 16:44 by mwoehlke.fl...@gmail.com: > On 08/07/2020 10.36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >>> On 8. Jul 2020, at 16:24, Matthew Woehlke wrote: >>> (On which note... knowing that a residence is *also* a shop is potentially >>> important!) >>> >> >> look for shop=* rather than building

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

8 Jul 2020, 16:35 by elga...@agol.dk: >> Matthew Woehlke wrote: >> Disclaimer: this is all US law. If you live in another country, YMMV. >> > > Yes, facts are not copyrightable. > > In Europe we unfortunately have the Database Directive > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Directive > >

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 15:40, Matthew Woehlke wrote: Moreover, it would be interesting to see a court weigh in on 2b vs. 2d, > and what exactly constitutes "use". If I look at *content* in Google > Maps, and then copy that *content* as permitted by 2b, am I "using" Maps > in a way that 2d

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 8. Jul 2020, at 16:17, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > Really? If Alice and Bob each own 50% of "Fairview Heights Apartments", you > would expect that there are legal property records indicating exactly which > half of said complex is owner by Alice and which half is owned

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 08/07/2020 10.36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: On 8. Jul 2020, at 16:24, Matthew Woehlke wrote: (On which note... knowing that a residence is *also* a shop is potentially important!) look for shop=* rather than building typologies... And... what, assume anything *not* a shop is a

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 8. Jul 2020, at 15:59, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > Neither Google nor anyone else can copyright facts by recording them in a > photograph. they do not base their restrictions on copyright law but on contract law (terms of service) Cheers Martin

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 08/07/2020 10.32, Matthew Woehlke wrote: On 08/07/2020 10.21, Chris Hill wrote: Google's Terms of Use prevent us reusing their Streetview in OSM, see section 2d. "Apart from any license granted to you by Google, your use of the content may be acceptable under principles of 'fair use.'

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 08/07/2020 10.32, Matthew Woehlke wrote: On 08/07/2020 10.21, Chris Hill wrote: Google's Terms of Use prevent us reusing their Streetview in OSM, see section 2d. "Apart from any license granted to you by Google, your use of the content may be acceptable under principles of 'fair use.'

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 8. Jul 2020, at 16:24, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > (On which note... knowing that a residence is *also* a shop is potentially > important!) look for shop=* rather than building typologies... Cheers Martin ___ Tagging

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Matthew Woehlke: > On 08/07/2020 09.57, Matthew Woehlke wrote: >> On 07/07/2020 18.04, Paul Allen wrote: >>> Copyright prevents us using Google Streetview for mapping, but we can use >>> it for >>> illustrative purposes. >> >> Honestly, I would *strongly* question whether that is enforceable in

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 07/07/2020 19.21, Paul Allen wrote: If it was obviously built as a house I'd tag it as building=house because anything but building=no will render identically in many cartos anyway. On a somewhat unrelated note, I really, *really* want residences to be tagged as such. I'm working on a

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 08/07/2020 09.57, Matthew Woehlke wrote: On 07/07/2020 18.04, Paul Allen wrote: Copyright prevents us using Google Streetview for mapping, but we can use it for illustrative purposes. Honestly, I would *strongly* question whether that is enforceable in the US (maybe it is in some

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 07/07/2020 18.04, Paul Allen wrote: Copyright prevents us using Google Streetview for mapping, but we can use it for illustrative purposes. Honestly, I would *strongly* question whether that is enforceable in the US (maybe it is in some overprotective European nations?). When I take a

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 8. Jul 2020, at 15:43, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > In some sense, I could say that the question is whether the building is > *legally* multiple separate properties. For townhouses and row houses, the > answer is (typically) "yes". For apartments and condominiums, the

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 07/07/2020 19.31, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: these are technical details that might vary, don’t know about your jurisdiction and real estate market, but around here you do indeed own a fraction of the building exterior and gardens, typically the sum of all apartment surface areas is

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Jul 8, 2020, 11:24 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > >> On 8. Jul 2020, at 11:03, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging >> wrote: >> >> If someone wants it is OK to map office/craft as an area inside house >> > > > yes of course, generally it is a superior method, but it may be

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Jul 8, 2020, 13:45 by pla16...@gmail.com: > On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 10:29, Martin Koppenhoefer <> dieterdre...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> >> as nobody has replied to this, I’m asking again: is a house really only a >> single dwelling building, or can there be a few more? >> > > There are

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 10:29, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > as nobody has replied to this, I’m asking again: is a house really only a > single dwelling building, or can there be a few more? > There are plenty of large houses, built for a single family (with servants) that have been split into

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 8. Jul 2020, at 11:04, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging > wrote: > > If it was obviously built as a house I'd tag it as building=house > +1 as nobody has replied to this, I’m asking again: is a house really only a single dwelling building, or can there be a few more?

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 8. Jul 2020, at 11:03, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging > wrote: > > If someone wants it is OK to map office/craft as an area inside house yes of course, generally it is a superior method, but it may be not worth the effort in most cases, compared to the current

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Jul 8, 2020, 01:21 by pla16...@gmail.com: > On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 00:08, Martin Koppenhoefer <> dieterdre...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >> traditionally, people worked and slept in the same space (the helpers), >> today these are typically shops and above dwelling/s. Are they „houses“, >>

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Jul 8, 2020, 01:40 by graemefi...@gmail.com: > > > > > On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 07:45, Paul Allen <> pla16...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> Building for the house, node for the workplace.  Micromappers will be upset >> unless you place the workplace node precisely, of course, but you probably >>

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

This is a very interesting example; thanks for sharing it! It definitely helps me see where you're coming from, and how this practice came into common use. Although it is a very ambiguous situation, I would still side on this being a single building that just so happens to have grown slowly

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 15:47, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > On 07/07/2020 15.24, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > > Sure thing, it's here: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/42.69323/-73.69023 > > ... > > I did not take photos, as I am not comfortable taking pictures of > > peoples' homes, > Google

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 07:45, Paul Allen wrote: > > Building for the house, node for the workplace. Micromappers will be upset > unless you place the workplace node precisely, of course, but you probably > have never been inside so don't know. That's assuming it still is being > used as a

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 7. Jul 2020, at 23:51, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > It looks like what we have here are "townhouses", which are somewhere in > between "strict" row houses and condominiums just that there is no „town“ ;-) > > I'm still inclined to argue that whether or not the

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 7. Jul 2020, at 23:51, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > Sure, but a condominium is *not* the same. A condominium is, indeed, > basically an apartment that you "own" rather than leasing. You don't own a > lot, or have any ownership whatsoever of the building exterior, and

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone >> On 7. Jul 2020, at 23:41, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > My own personal interpretation would be to say that if two houses share > a wall, they are part of the same building. I agree here with what Paul wrote some posts ago: things are blurred in reality. The details depend

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 00:08, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: traditionally, people worked and slept in the same space (the helpers), > today these are typically shops and above dwelling/s. Are they „houses“, > building=house? > Ah, so that's what you're getting at. A lot of those in my town. Built

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 00:02, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: On 7. Jul 2020, at 23:45, Paul Allen wrote: here the buildings on the left and right: > https://www.10cose.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/chiesa-calcata.jpg > I can't figure out which buildings you mean. any but the church. It’s in the

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone >> On 7. Jul 2020, at 23:45, Paul Allen wrote: > Building for the house, node for the workplace. Micromappers will be upset > unless you place the workplace node precisely, of course, but you probably > have never been inside so don't know. That's assuming it still is being

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 7. Jul 2020, at 23:45, Paul Allen wrote: > >> here the buildings on the left and right: >> https://www.10cose.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/chiesa-calcata.jpg > > I can't figure out which buildings you mean. any but the church. It’s in the same village as the first

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 22:41, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > > My own personal interpretation would be to say that if two houses share > a wall, they are part of the same building. Buildings are expanded all > the time. If a shopping mall expands a wing to give more space for more > shops, we do not

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 07/07/2020 17.28, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: On 7. Jul 2020, at 21:48, Matthew Woehlke wrote: Personally, if it's possible to determine the boundaries between properties, my inclination would be to model them as separate buildings. (It's somewhat worth noting that townhouses are *owned*, at

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 22:15, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Some examples for houses that IMHO are neither terraces, nor single > dwelling buildings, nor apartment buildings: > https://img2.juzaphoto.com/001/shared_files/uploads/1242740_l.jpg > That's building=escher here the buildings on the left

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 2020-07-07 at 22:14 +0100, Paul Allen wrote: > Consider a house. In your understanding it is both a building and a > house, > and we tag it building=house. Now consider another house is built > adjacent and conjoining, so that they share a side wall. Two houses > in your understanding.

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 21:50, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > On Tue, 2020-07-07 at 21:00 +0100, Paul Allen wrote: > > > On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 20:32, Skyler Hawthorne > > wrote: > > > Maybe it wasn't clear, but what I'm suggesting isn't to remove the > > > suggestion of tagging as individual

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 7. Jul 2020, at 21:48, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > Personally, if it's possible to determine the boundaries between properties, > my inclination would be to model them as separate buildings. (It's somewhat > worth noting that townhouses are *owned*, at least in part,

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 21:48, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > > But I'm starting to think that maybe this issue is coming down to > semantics. What exactly do we mean when we say "building" vs "house"? > The personal interpretation I am working off of is that a "building" is > the complete physical

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone >> On 7. Jul 2020, at 22:02, Paul Allen wrote: > If you are suggesting using terrace to describe a topology that > isn't actually a row of houses, that would be very confusing. the German term is equally row house (Reihenhaus). Main difference to an apartment building is

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 2020-07-07 at 21:00 +0100, Paul Allen wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 20:32, Skyler Hawthorne > wrote: > > Maybe it wasn't clear, but what I'm suggesting isn't to remove the > > suggestion of tagging as individual building=houses, but adding > > another > > section that says something to

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 20:32, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > > Maybe it wasn't clear, but what I'm suggesting isn't to remove the > suggestion of tagging as individual building=houses, but adding another > section that says something to the effect of "for cases where the > terraced houses are part of

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On 07/07/2020 15.24, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: Sure thing, it's here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/42.69323/-73.69023 Huh! That's practically next door to me. There's a whole *whack* of row houses in south Clifton Park. A survey confirmed that they are large buildings with

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 2020-07-07 at 19:42 +0100, Neil Matthews wrote: > Do not change the wiki - there are many different equally valid ways > of > tagging terraced houses. I favour breaking terraces into individual > dwellings/houses. Thanks for your feedback. I'm sorry, but I think your second sentence

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Tue, 2020-07-07 at 19:48 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > It seems that "terrace buildings" is used to describe both collection > of individual buildings > and to large building, so maybe both tagging methods are applicable. > > So far all cases that I found are better described

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Do not change the wiki - there are many different equally valid ways of tagging terraced houses. I favour breaking terraces into individual dwellings/houses. There are many terraces locally -- they all have individual addresses (and UPRNs) -- some have names for the terraces that are different

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

It seems that "terrace buildings" is used to describe both collection of individual buildings and to large building, so maybe both tagging methods are applicable. So far all cases that I found are better described as set of individual similar buildings Can you share/link photo with your case

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Jul 7, 2020, 13:20 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > > >> On 6. Jul 2020, at 22:42, Joseph Eisenberg >> wrote: >> >> According to the wiki page about building=terrace, it is usually best >> practice to map each house as a separate area (closed way) object.  >> >> ">> A

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 7. Jul 2020, at 15:08, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > > If I wanted to suggest this approach in the wiki, should I start a separate > email thread to discuss this tagging scheme before editing the wiki page? you do not need a separate thread, but changes like this should

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

I settled on using building:part=house for the individual houses and wrapping the whole building with building=terrace. I think this makes more sense anyway, tagging the individual houses as part of the larger building. Thanks for pointing me to building:part=*! In general, how should one

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 6. Jul 2020, at 22:42, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > According to the wiki page about building=terrace, it is usually best > practice to map each house as a separate area (closed way) object. > > "A more detailed and recommended alternative is to map each dwelling >

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Jul 6, 2020, 23:22 by o...@dead10ck.com: >> I'm also, in a more general sense, raising a question about the >> established conventions and whether it makes sense to be tagging the >> individual units as "buildings", when they are not really buildings >> in and of themselves, but sections of

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 21:42, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > According to the wiki page about building=terrace, it is usually best > practice to map each house as a separate area (closed way) object. > > "A more detailed and recommended alternative is to map each dwelling > separately using building >

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

> I'm also, in a more general sense, raising a question about the > established conventions and whether it makes sense to be tagging the > individual units as "buildings", when they are not really buildings > in and of themselves, but sections of one larger building that > contains several other

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Mon, 2020-07-06 at 13:40 -0700, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > According to the wiki page about building=terrace, it is usually best > practice to map each house as a separate area (closed way) object. > > "A more detailed and recommended alternative is to map each dwelling > separately using

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

According to the wiki page about building=terrace, it is usually best practice to map each house as a separate area (closed way) object. "A more detailed and recommended alternative is to map each dwelling separately using building =house

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

sent from a phone > On 6. Jul 2020, at 20:45, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > > Are there any alternative schemes? Is there a tag to indicate that a closed > way represents a "dwelling" or "housing unit", but not a standalone building > in and of itself? Or, what if I tagged the whole building

Re: [Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 19:43, Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > 1. Draw a way around the whole building and tag it with building=terrace, > and then add entrance nodes with addresses, or > 2. Draw the outline of the terrace builiding, but then make ways inside the > building to create detailed borders of

[Tagging] How to map terrace buildings with names

Hello. I am mapping a housing development that has a few terrace buildings that each have several town homes that share walls. From what I've gathered from the wiki, you can either: 1. Draw a way around the whole building and tag it with building=terrace, and then add entrance nodes with