On 23.03.2015 21:33, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2015-03-23 15:27 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de
mailto:o...@stephans-server.de:
The wiki describes operator=independent as he value has been used
when exact details of the operator are not known, other than that
they
If the business sells small quantities of fuel (automotive or otherwise), but
not car parts, then in what sense does shop=car_parts apply? Fuel is not part
of the car.
On March 23, 2015 8:55:57 AM CDT, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote:
On 23.03.2015 11:02, Dave Swarthout wrote:
An
If it is a place to buy 50l of petrol with a credit card, and 200 people can
use it a day, it's a Normal gas station. If you hand the card to a clerk or pay
at the pump (almost every single gas station in America, and more and more in
Japan) - it's still a gas station.
I don't think people
2015-03-24 11:28 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com:
There's no need to remove it since it's clearly understood by most people
to mean tools, custom items, maybe even tickets to an auto show.
IMHO the only valid word there is car parts, because if they don't have
car parts but
There's no need to remove it since it's clearly understood by most people
to mean tools, custom items, maybe even tickets to an auto show.
Motor oil is sold at a car_parts shop because it is non-volatile and
therefore poses no fire or explosion risk. This is emphatically not the
case with
2015-03-23 18:48 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at:
Petrol is similar to motor oil, both are fluids made from mineral oil.
Diesel is identical with light fuel oil. So this is clearly the same group
of products, especially when sold in equally small quantities. What else is
the etc.
It's interesting that you brought that up because most fuel stations in the
United States actually use vending machines as well. AFAIK, the only state
in the United States that still requires an attendant to pump your gas is
Oregon. In a way, even though the fuel shops I'm dealing with in Thailand
+5
I fully agree with Dave! We need a clear differentiation between regular
filling stations with large underground containers and the shops that sell
a few liters of diesel of which you may hope that it isn't polluted and
doesn't contain water.
When I travel in countries like Malawi or Ethiopia
On 22.03.2015 20:29, fly wrote:
some independent petrol stations are organized in associations and use
these as their brand, see e.g. here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesverband_freier_Tankstellen
So it is a brand. Maybe just small, but a brand of that association of
fuel stations.
not
On 23.03.2015 15:11, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2015-03-23 14:55 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at
mailto:b...@volki.at:
Ok, if it's only 2 or 3 liters, it's not really a fuel station, but
rather a
shop=car_parts.
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery
Sorry, fuel is not a car_part. And these small fuel shops are not an
amenity.
Stalemate.
@Fly - these places are operated by private individuals out of the front of
their homes primarily. It's typically a small shed with a large window thru
which the fuel is either pumped or handed over in
2015-03-23 15:27 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de:
The wiki describes operator=independent as he value has been used when
exact details of the operator are not known, other than that they are a
small independent firm.
Sounds like that's exactly what we are looking for.
I don't object to the operator=independent tag. That's an okay addition to
the scenario. However, I do object to tagging these things as amenities.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com
wrote:
Sorry, fuel is not a car_part. And these small fuel shops are not an
2015-03-23 15:30 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at:
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery is bicycle_parts.
The definition says: A place selling auto parts, auto accessories, motor
oil, car chemicals, etc.
That fits perfectly.
can you expand? Someone sitting
Am 23.03.2015 um 07:02 schrieb johnw:
On Mar 20, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
You can change it .. or make proposals here. Just don't change the existing
values and it should be fine.
I'd think you'd be adding heating oils, propane and kerosene.
The wiki entry
On 23.03.2015 11:02, Dave Swarthout wrote:
An amenity is something the /general public/ might like or use or want to
visit. These little shops are definitely not that. They sell small
quantities of fuel, usually 2 or 3 liters, to local motorcycle drivers.
That's why the general public might
2015-03-23 14:55 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at:
Ok, if it's only 2 or 3 liters, it's not really a fuel station, but rather
a
shop=car_parts.
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery is bicycle_parts.
cheers,
Martin
___
2015-03-23 14:55 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at:
Ok, if it's only 2 or 3 liters, it's not really a fuel station, but rather
a
shop=car_parts.
I'd prefer shop=pharmacy, dispensing=no ;-)
Cheers,
Martin
___
Tagging mailing list
On 23.03.2015 14:50, Friedrich Volkmann wrote:
amenity=fuel
fuel=bottled
Which would render indistinguishable from a full service fuel station.
That's fine, because selling fuel is what makes it a fuel station.
You have missed the point of this thread. The world is not perfect.
Am 23.03.2015 um 15:33 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
2015-03-23 15:27 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de:
The wiki describes operator=independent as he value has been used when
exact details of the operator are not known, other than that they are a
small independent firm.
2015-03-23 11:02 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com:
I agree with amenity=fuel + a subtag like these (if needed).
This is not the way to go.
An amenity is something the *general public* might like or use or want to
visit. These little shops are definitely not that. They sell
On Mar 20, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
You can change it .. or make proposals here. Just don't change the existing
values and it should be fine.
I'd think you'd be adding heating oils, propane and kerosene.
The wiki entry is uneditable - I’ve edited quite a few
How does the tagging differ from an unstaffed filling station where you
enter your credit card and fill up the tank of your car yourself 24/7 like
I seem them all over the place in the Netherlands? In the situation you
describe I really prefer shop=*.
Regards,
Jan
At these places you
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
wrote:
2015-03-23 11:02 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com:
I agree with amenity=fuel + a subtag like these (if needed).
This is not the way to go.
An amenity is something the general public might like
On 20.03.2015 00:48, Warin wrote:
On 20/03/2015 9:39 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk
mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
amenity=fuel
fuel=bottled
Which would render indistinguishable from a full service fuel
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote:
I agree with amenity=fuel + a subtag like these (if needed).
This is not the way to go.
An amenity is something the *general public* might like or use or want to
visit. These little shops are definitely not that. They
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 24, 2015, at 2:48 AM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote:
On 23.03.2015 15:36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery is bicycle_parts.
The definition says: A place selling auto parts, auto accessories, motor
On 23.03.2015 15:36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery is bicycle_parts.
The definition says: A place selling auto parts, auto accessories, motor
oil, car chemicals, etc.
That fits perfectly.
can you expand? Someone sitting
I agree completely with what John said in the previous reply.
Repeat: a fuel shop is not a car_parts shop. The etc. was probably added
there as a catch all to include tools specific to cars or whatever but it
definitely, certainly does not include petrol.
Dave
On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:37 AM,
Also, Bryce makes this point, a valid point I must add:
These stands are also far more volatile than a proper fuel station. And
once they cease business
very hard to un-map.
That's true but it's also true of many other objects. Mapping the world is
a dynamic endeavor because things change:
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 24, 2015, at 10:22 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote:
n the 5 years I've been motorcycling around Thailand I'm seeing more and more
of these. But the other type, the shops we're working with now, will likely
be around for many years. They should
On Mar 24, 2015, at 10:04 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote:
The etc. was probably added there as a catch all to include tools specific
to cars or whatever but it definitely, certainly does not include petrol.
Car stores sell all the aftermarket stuff for cars (besides
Am 19.03.2015 um 17:43 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
2015-03-19 17:12 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com:
brand=none or
no_brand=yes to proper mark the independence.
some independent petrol stations are organized in associations and use
these as their brand, see e.g. here:
Argh, let's not invent yet another amenity type for this. Why not tag for
the dispenser type? Then you'd still be able to find fuel as an amenity
(which is better than nothing if you don't get your preferred dispenser
type in most cases) but you could, say, filter for only fuel amenities that
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
I've come across regular filling stations without a roof. Somewhere in
Scotland.. on a Sunday .. no one there but a credit card reader so I could
get fuel.
Others in Australia .. White Cliffs, Warburton, Docker River,
On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:13 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote:
Nobody's proposing another amenity tag. My thrust here is to gather opinions
about adding another shop key, this one a shop for petrol (gas, gasohol,
etc.). The places I have in mind are not the same as
Nobody's proposing another amenity tag. My thrust here is to gather
opinions about adding another shop key, this one a shop for petrol (gas,
gasohol, etc.). The places I have in mind are not the same as standard
fueling places, tagged amenity=fuel, in fact, I wish them to be tagged
There is also more risk that fuel sold for cars is more polluted or that
water was added.
Met vriendelijke groet/with kind regards,
*Jan van Bekkum*
www.DeEinderVoorbij.nl
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 11:01 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com
wrote:
Obviously many mappers aren't reading the Wiki and use whatever tag sounds
right to them. Makes what we're discussing here seem like a waste of energy
:-(
Wrong!
Our process here will result in a tag that even
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 12:20 AM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote:
I haven't had a chance to read up on how to define the fuel type.
I imagine there is various heating oils, propane and kerosene, LNG, coal,
wood, different grades of gas, diesel, aviation fuel, jet fuel, etc - even
farm gas
On 20.03.2015 11:44, John Willis wrote:
As long as distribution is non-traditional, a shop selling fuel oil and
cordwood for heating is fine with me (I have to read up on fuel= tagging )
shop=fuel sounds reasonable.
It seems to be used for coal, heating oil and kerosine. And a hand full
of
I was gonna say we should probably consider adding subtags for bottled gas
like propane and butane so that shop=gas might eventually be subsumed by a
new overall shop=fuel. By the way, firewood is a fuel and could conceivably
fit in here too. I would want to stay away from using another amenity
I haven't had a chance to read up on how to define the fuel type.
I imagine there is various heating oils, propane and kerosene, LNG, coal, wood,
different grades of gas, diesel, aviation fuel, jet fuel, etc - even farm gas
which has different taxes.
How can those be defined - esp if a shop
On 20/03/2015 5:08 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 11:01 PM, Dave Swarthout
daveswarth...@gmail.com mailto:daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote:
Obviously many mappers aren't reading the Wiki and use whatever
tag sounds right to them. Makes what we're discussing here seem
2015-03-19 22:46 GMT+01:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com:
I've come across regular filling stations without a roof.
+1, in Italy you can find lots of them (in the city there are much more of
these than roofed ones). Also don't seem to have oil traps in many
occasions (not completely sure on
On Mar 20, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
On 20/03/2015 6:20 PM, John Willis wrote:
I haven't had a chance to read up on how to define the fuel type.
I imagine there is various heating oils, propane and kerosene, LNG, coal,
wood, different grades of gas, diesel,
On 20/03/2015 6:20 PM, John Willis wrote:
I haven't had a chance to read up on how to define the fuel type.
I imagine there is various heating oils, propane and kerosene, LNG, coal, wood, different
grades of gas, diesel, aviation fuel, jet fuel, etc - even farm gas which has
different taxes.
On 20/03/2015 5:01 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote:
I was gonna say we should probably consider adding subtags for bottled
gas like propane and butane so that shop=gas might eventually be
subsumed by a new overall shop=fuel. By the way, firewood is a fuel
and could conceivably fit in here too. I
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 20, 2015, at 9:18 PM, Jan van Bekkum jan.vanbek...@gmail.com wrote:
There is a similar confusion for kerosine (US), paraffine (UK), petroleum
(NL); it all the same liquid
Yikes!
Paraffin is a wax, and petroleum is just a fancy word for oil in general. I
think
There is a similar confusion for kerosine (US), paraffine (UK), petroleum
(NL); it all the same liquid.
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 12:29 PM johnw jo...@mac.com wrote:
On Mar 20, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
On 20/03/2015 6:20 PM, John Willis wrote:
I haven't had a
On 19 March 2015 at 21:46, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
The existence of a roof does not identify
a 'regular filling station' to me.
amenity=fuel
pumps=8
vs.
amenity=fuel
pumps=0
?
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
If you do require a larger volume of fuel .. I think those low volume places
would direct you to a high volume place, and be able to provide enough fuel
to get there.
If you speak their language :-).
The bottled fuel is
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk
wrote:
amenity=fuel
fuel=bottled
Which would render indistinguishable from a full service fuel station.
fuel=bottled in addition would create some confusion if the fuel was in a
drum with a pump.
On 20/03/2015 9:30 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
On 19 March 2015 at 21:46, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
The existence of a roof does not identify
a 'regular filling station' to me.
amenity=fuel
pumps=8
vs.
amenity=fuel
pumps=0
?
Humm pump is used
On 20/03/2015 9:01 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
On 19 March 2015 at 09:18, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote:
Here in Thailand, and especially in rural areas, there are hundreds of shops
that sell motor fuel in small quantities.
amenity=fuel
fuel=bottled
The key fuel= is used to
On 20/03/2015 9:39 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Andy Mabbett
a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
amenity=fuel
fuel=bottled
Which would render indistinguishable from a full service fuel station.
fuel=bottled in addition would
I don't see where all the confusion comes from. I chose shop=fuel for the
exact reason of avoiding confusion with full-service filling stations,
which is the primary reason for wanting a new tag in the first place. We
want to avoid using amenity=fuel for this type of shop. I have designed a
custom
I think they should remain as amenity=fuel (I have visited Thailand and I
know what you mean). Local people will know what to expect, but for
clarity perhaps subtags should be used to add detail and differentiate
between a filling station and a lemonade stand selling fuel.
On Thursday, 19 March
Good idea to have such a tag, should include diesel for cars, kerosine for
heating and propane/butane for cooking that are sold in the same way. I
Kenya we have been in areas far away from regular filling stations; there
people are selling diesel from drums.
I think shop=fuel is dangerous as it
In Benin (Africa) these shops exist also – mostly only a table with
some big bottles with fuel.
2015-03-19 9:18 GMT, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com:
I want to float an idea to get your reactions. Here in Thailand, and
especially in rural areas, there are hundreds of shops that sell
I would prefer a different tag as I would not like the lemonade table to be
rendered in the same way as a regular filling station. The tag shop=gas
with subtag would be better.
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 11:46 AM Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com
wrote:
I think they should remain as
I have a similar issue in Japan. Japan uses kerosene for portable heaters in
the winter, and there is no real fuel delivery (to a consumer), such as heating
oil in the Eastern US. Everyone in Japan has use use plastic 5Gal/18-20L tanks
carried in the car and kept outside the house for filling
On Fri, 2015-03-20 at 08:46 +1100, Warin wrote:
I've come across regular filling stations without a roof.
Indeed, absolutely no reason a full service or pump based fuel
supplier must have a roof.
Usually an office (or shipping container) nearby but pumps out in the
open is very common.
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:40 PM, johnw jo...@mac.com wrote:
If the DIY kerosene stands were tagged as gas stations, there would be
thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of gas stations across Japan that are
not gas stations. So I agree we should use shop=fuel.
Great input, up to the
Maybe amenity=fuel_stand?
Then we can tag it onto existing shops (like a DIY store) or micromap it onto
gas stations.
As long as distribution is non-traditional, a shop selling fuel oil and
cordwood for heating is fine with me (I have to read up on fuel= tagging )
I know there are shops and
You could set all the fuel types to no (fuel:*=no), or add a new one
(fuel:motorbike=yes). Or add motorbike=fuel.
Except there isn't anything like motorbile fuel.
Keeping it as amenity=fuel means all mapping tools and search tools
continue to work.
Which is exactly the problem. Now your
It is expected that most renderers only look at the namespace tag, not at
the attributes. How do we ensure that I don't end up at a bottle store
while I expect a decent filling station. I am afraid that we pollute the
amenity=fuel tag if we use it for fuel out of a drum as well? We really
should
In American ideom, gas is often a contraction of gasoline, which the British
call petrol. Given differing terminology, and that such shops may sell propane
and diesel fuel as well as gasoline/petrol, shop=fuel is probably the best
solution.
On March 19, 2015 8:21:36 AM CDT, Janko Mihelić
2015-03-19 13:46 GMT+01:00 Jan van Bekkum jan.vanbek...@gmail.com:
I would prefer a different tag as I would not like the lemonade table to
be rendered in the same way as a regular filling station. The tag shop=gas
with subtag would be better.
I like shop, but gas is an aggregate state of
On 19.03.2015 20:31, p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:
However I can see nothing wrong with amenity=fuel, that is what it is in that
part of the world . What turns amenity=fuel into a regular filling station is
the building=roof.
There is a huge difference. You'll notice that if you end up with
On Thu Mar 19 12:46:02 2015 GMT, Jan van Bekkum wrote:
I would prefer a different tag as I would not like the lemonade table to be
rendered in the same way as a regular filling station. The tag shop=gas
with subtag would be better.
I would expect shop=gas to sell bottled gas for camping
Gas
But, it *is* a fuel amenity. It's down to the individual what picture they
have in their mind. Additional tags would clarify this, but I don't think
alternative tags are needed.
You could set all the fuel types to no (fuel:*=no), or add a new one
(fuel:motorbike=yes). Or add motorbike=fuel.
2015-03-19 17:51 GMT+01:00 Jan van Bekkum jan.vanbek...@gmail.com:
It is expected that most renderers only look at the namespace tag, not at
the attributes. How do we ensure that I don't end up at a bottle store
while I expect a decent filling station. I am afraid that we pollute the
amenity=bottled_motor_fuel
phone= (because many have mobile phones)
name= (name of individual proprietor)
It has the same fuzzy border as supermarket vs. convenience.
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Tagging mailing list
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+1
The last thin I want is to count on a regular filling station and to and up
at a bottle store with my 4WD. A that will happen if the type of store is
an attribute, as map makers will show them the same. So please make it a
different value for the tag, not fuel.
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:11 PM
On 19 March 2015 at 09:18, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote:
Here in Thailand, and especially in rural areas, there are hundreds of shops
that sell motor fuel in small quantities.
amenity=fuel
fuel=bottled
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
I see no problem with amenity or shop as long as the description on the
wiki is well done. It is an amenity no doubt but we need proper subtags
for the vehicles and the amount.
shop=fuel was mentioned on a different thread about companies which fill
up your private diesel or gas tanks for
2015-03-19 17:12 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com:
brand=none or
no_brand=yes to proper mark the independence.
some independent petrol stations are organized in associations and use
these as their brand, see e.g. here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesverband_freier_Tankstellen
not
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