Re: [Tagging] service:car for car shops and repair

[Dave Swarthout]

Well, in America anybody who has reached old age is an "old timer", someone
like me LOL. Using that term for vehicles is a little less common but it
would definitely work in that context.

@Phil - your spelling of vetran wouldn't fly in the U.S. either. It is
actually veteran.

Regards,
DAve

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Philip Barnes  wrote:

> On Thu Nov 3 08:52:59 2016 GMT, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> >
> >
> > sent from a phone
> >
> > > Il giorno 03 nov 2016, alle ore 00:41, Dave Swarthout <
> daveswarth...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> > >
> > > Also, there is a fourth very strange value offered for repair and
> parts, "old_timer", whatever the hell that is
> >
> >
> > Oldtimer is "German" for vintage / classic car/vehicle. It's just a hint
> that tags should be briefly discussed to avoid wordings that are not
> universally understood.
> >
> As an owner of a classic car I  guessed what it meant, it sounds more
> American than German though.
>
> I would go with classic, vintage or vetran rather than oldtimer though.
>
> Vintage = pre 1919
> Vetran = 1919-1930
> Classic everything else, although once you get  into classic businesses
> will tend to specialise in particular marques.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
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Re: [Tagging] service:car for car shops and repair

[Tod Fitch]

> On Nov 3, 2016, at 7:30 AM, Philip Barnes  wrote:
> 
> On Thu Nov 3 08:52:59 2016 GMT, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> sent from a phone
>> 
>>> Il giorno 03 nov 2016, alle ore 00:41, Dave Swarthout 
>>>  ha scritto:
>>> 
>>> Also, there is a fourth very strange value offered for repair and parts, 
>>> "old_timer", whatever the hell that is
>> 
>> 
>> Oldtimer is "German" for vintage / classic car/vehicle. It's just a hint 
>> that tags should be briefly discussed to avoid wordings that are not 
>> universally understood.
>> 
> As an owner of a classic car I  guessed what it meant, it sounds more 
> American than German though.
> 
> I would go with classic, vintage or vetran rather than oldtimer though.
> 
> Vintage = pre 1919
> Vetran = 1919-1930
> Classic everything else, although once you get  into classic businesses will 
> tend to specialise in particular marques.
> 

I suspect that “Vetran” should be Veteran in the above.

Yet another area where American terminology differs from British. But since we 
are supposed to use British English I’ll not bother to list the American ones.

I strongly suggest that if/when they have been throughly “bikeshedded” and put 
into the wiki that the OSM/British definitions be fully described for 
non-British English speakers.

Cheers,
Tod





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Re: [Tagging] test track tagging (vs highway=raceway)

[Richard Welty]

On 11/2/16 2:34 AM, Tijmen Stam wrote:
>
> To add in, at  we
> have a nice collection of circuits, from northeast to southwest:
> * The RDW (state office for road traffic) test track, marked mainly as
> highway=service but some raceway
> * A cart track (marked as raceway) with associated dirt track (not
> marked other than with land use)
> * The ANWB (driver's club, say AAA) driver's training track (not for a
> driver's permit but for anti-slip training etc), most marked as raceway
> * A seemingly commercial (or non-profit) race track, marked on their
> site as "for events, tv-productions and races", all actual track
> marked as raceway, but the small connecting bits as service, with a
> dirt track only marked by landuse
my normal race track tagging rule of thumb is to use highway=raceway for
"hot"
areas (places where race cars are expected to be at speed), which
includes the
pit lane, and then use highway=service for low speed access roads.

racing karts is real racing, so i use highway=raceway for kart tracks.

and i think that dirt courses that have some sort of permanent status and
are used for competition are deserving of highway=raceway as well.

richard

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Re: [Tagging] service:car for car shops and repair

[Philip Barnes]

On Thu Nov 3 08:52:59 2016 GMT, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
> > Il giorno 03 nov 2016, alle ore 00:41, Dave Swarthout 
> >  ha scritto:
> > 
> > Also, there is a fourth very strange value offered for repair and parts, 
> > "old_timer", whatever the hell that is
> 
> 
> Oldtimer is "German" for vintage / classic car/vehicle. It's just a hint that 
> tags should be briefly discussed to avoid wordings that are not universally 
> understood.
> 
As an owner of a classic car I  guessed what it meant, it sounds more American 
than German though.

I would go with classic, vintage or vetran rather than oldtimer though.

Vintage = pre 1919
Vetran = 1919-1930
Classic everything else, although once you get  into classic businesses will 
tend to specialise in particular marques.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Tagging] Busways

[Yves]

@Tijmen, IMHO there is very little chance to convince people to change the way 
we tag highways because of buses using them or not. 
Yves 

Le 3 novembre 2016 09:01:51 GMT+01:00, althio  a écrit :
>My 2 cents:
>
>I am very much in favour of b) highway=* (all the range from motorway,
>link, prim./sec./tert. to service) + access/vehicle=no and
>bus/psv=yes/designated.
>
>Hence:
>> I propose expanding the highway=service to roads that are for one
>very specific, non-general-public use, and the addition of service=bus
>for roads that are dedicated to buses
>-1, too different from existing definition and global usage of
>highway=service
>
>> I'm proposing to formalize (by documenting on the wiki) a practice
>that is already widespread, namely to tag busways as highway=service.
>-1, some of them are possibly properly tagged as highway=service, that
>is not the only case in my opinion.
>
>> I think you should consider the access rights (access=no, bus=yes)
>and the road classification (highway=service/unclassified) as two
>separate things.
>> Ask yourself what kind of highway-tag you would use, if the road was
>not limited to buses only.
>+1, use meaningful tag for level of this road (for the bus in overall
>road network)
>
>> I look at service highways as most general highways. All highways are
>service highways, but residential highways are a special type,
>motorways are another special type and so on.
>> So anything that is a highway but is none of these special types,
>then it's a service.
>-1, not my understanding
>
>-- althio
>
>
>On 2 November 2016 at 07:23, Tijmen Stam  wrote:
>> In the local Dutch forum there was a discussion on how to tag what I
>call
>> busways*.
>>
>> a) as highway=service
>> with access=no and bus=yes (or psv=yes)
>> e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/364983960
>>
>> b) as another highway type, such as highway=unclassified in cities
>and the
>> country, or highway=motorway_link when it is e.g. a highway ramp.
>> e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/7391275 and
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24297125
>>
>> There are examples of both in the Netherlands. While the majority of
>busways
>> is tagged as highway=service, there are some people who feel very
>strongly
>> against it.
>>
>> While I personally prefer the highway=service, the description of
>> highway=service
>
>> doesn't fit it really well: "Generally for access to a building,
>service
>> station, beach, campsite, industrial estate, business park, etc. This
>is
>> also commonly used for access to parking, driveways, and alleys."
>>
>> However, unclassified (the only other possible highway tag if it's
>not a
>> _link) "doesn't feel right" to me.
>>
>> Looking at taginfo, the undocumented service=bus has 4462 uses, and
>is in
>> use globally:
>https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=service=bus.
>> service=busway adds another 1400-ish.
>>
>> I propose expanding the highway=service to roads that are for one
>very
>> specific, non-general-public use, and the addition of service=bus for
>roads
>> that are dedicated to buses, with an implied access=no and bus=yes
>tag.
>>
>> Any ideas? Suggestions?
>>
>> Tijmen / IIVQ
>>
>>
>> * With busways I mean separate roads that are legally (and sometimes
>by use
>> of a bollard or lift gate also practically) only accessible for
>buses. This
>> can be a short connection between two roads, but also a mayor
>stand-alone
>> road netword, e.g.
>. I am
>> _not_ talking about bus lanes nor about guided busways.
>>
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Re: [Tagging] service:car for car shops and repair

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 03 nov 2016, alle ore 00:41, Dave Swarthout 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Also, there is a fourth very strange value offered for repair and parts, 
> "old_timer", whatever the hell that is


Oldtimer is "German" for vintage / classic car/vehicle. It's just a hint that 
tags should be briefly discussed to avoid wordings that are not universally 
understood.


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Busways

[althio]

My 2 cents:

I am very much in favour of b) highway=* (all the range from motorway,
link, prim./sec./tert. to service) + access/vehicle=no and
bus/psv=yes/designated.

Hence:
> I propose expanding the highway=service to roads that are for one very 
> specific, non-general-public use, and the addition of service=bus for roads 
> that are dedicated to buses
-1, too different from existing definition and global usage of highway=service

> I'm proposing to formalize (by documenting on the wiki) a practice that is 
> already widespread, namely to tag busways as highway=service.
-1, some of them are possibly properly tagged as highway=service, that
is not the only case in my opinion.

> I think you should consider the access rights (access=no, bus=yes) and the 
> road classification (highway=service/unclassified) as two separate things.
> Ask yourself what kind of highway-tag you would use, if the road was not 
> limited to buses only.
+1, use meaningful tag for level of this road (for the bus in overall
road network)

> I look at service highways as most general highways. All highways are service 
> highways, but residential highways are a special type, motorways are another 
> special type and so on.
> So anything that is a highway but is none of these special types, then it's a 
> service.
-1, not my understanding

-- althio


On 2 November 2016 at 07:23, Tijmen Stam  wrote:
> In the local Dutch forum there was a discussion on how to tag what I call
> busways*.
>
> a) as highway=service
> with access=no and bus=yes (or psv=yes)
> e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/364983960
>
> b) as another highway type, such as highway=unclassified in cities and the
> country, or highway=motorway_link when it is e.g. a highway ramp.
> e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/7391275 and
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24297125
>
> There are examples of both in the Netherlands. While the majority of busways
> is tagged as highway=service, there are some people who feel very strongly
> against it.
>
> While I personally prefer the highway=service, the description of
> highway=service 
> doesn't fit it really well: "Generally for access to a building, service
> station, beach, campsite, industrial estate, business park, etc. This is
> also commonly used for access to parking, driveways, and alleys."
>
> However, unclassified (the only other possible highway tag if it's not a
> _link) "doesn't feel right" to me.
>
> Looking at taginfo, the undocumented service=bus has 4462 uses, and is in
> use globally: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=service=bus.
> service=busway adds another 1400-ish.
>
> I propose expanding the highway=service to roads that are for one very
> specific, non-general-public use, and the addition of service=bus for roads
> that are dedicated to buses, with an implied access=no and bus=yes tag.
>
> Any ideas? Suggestions?
>
> Tijmen / IIVQ
>
>
> * With busways I mean separate roads that are legally (and sometimes by use
> of a bollard or lift gate also practically) only accessible for buses. This
> can be a short connection between two roads, but also a mayor stand-alone
> road netword, e.g. . I am
> _not_ talking about bus lanes nor about guided busways.
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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