Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 
2013/12/7 Peter Wendorff 

> IMHO the whole area may be a residential area, and residential includes
> residential highways, houses, small parks and much more,
> But I wouldn't say the whole area is a garden, so a garden should only
> be tagged where there is a garden or mainly a garden.
> In addition a single garden is a single garden, while a residential area
> may consists of several blocks.
> Two gardens are two gardens and should be mapped as two objects in OSM,
> I think.
>


+1
cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Tag for archbishopric?

2013-12-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 
2013/12/6 Severin MENARD 

> Hi,
>
> Is there a tag for archbishopric or archbishop's palace? And beyond, for
> any tag related to religious administrative offices?
>


for the latter you could use some office-tag and add religion=*
denomination=* etc.

the former should be inserted with the admin_centre role into the diocese
boundary relation ;-)

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread Peter Wendorff 
IMHO the whole area may be a residential area, and residential includes
residential highways, houses, small parks and much more,
But I wouldn't say the whole area is a garden, so a garden should only
be tagged where there is a garden or mainly a garden.
In addition a single garden is a single garden, while a residential area
may consists of several blocks.
Two gardens are two gardens and should be mapped as two objects in OSM,
I think.

regards
Peter

Am 07.12.2013 00:01, schrieb Wolfgang Hinsch:
> Am Freitag, den 06.12.2013, 15:20 +0100 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
>>
>>> Am 06/dic/2013 um 13:39 schrieb cracklinrain :
>>>
>>> Well, I would say a stone garden without plants is probably still a
>>> garden. But an area made of concrete is still a (small) yard or else. If
>>> it's too strange it should be tagged as artwork maybe.
>>>
>>> But by definition it seems that the aspect of existing plants is important.
>>
>>
>>
>> it will be decided by the mapper on occasion.
>>  I have seen some quite unusual gardens with very few plants, but generally 
>> you'd expect them in a garden (something could be a garden and a piece of 
>> art or design at the same time). Also zen gardens which AFAIK are mostly 
>> pebbles rather than lawn, will still have some tree (or bonsaii tree).
> 
> The question remains how to tag: one area of ~50-100 private gardens as
> leisure=garden including the whole residential area whith buildings etc.
> or garden by garden.
> 
> cheers, Osmonav
> 
> 
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread Wolfgang Hinsch 
Am Freitag, den 06.12.2013, 15:20 +0100 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> 
> > Am 06/dic/2013 um 13:39 schrieb cracklinrain :
> > 
> > Well, I would say a stone garden without plants is probably still a
> > garden. But an area made of concrete is still a (small) yard or else. If
> > it's too strange it should be tagged as artwork maybe.
> > 
> > But by definition it seems that the aspect of existing plants is important.
> 
> 
> 
> it will be decided by the mapper on occasion.
>  I have seen some quite unusual gardens with very few plants, but generally 
> you'd expect them in a garden (something could be a garden and a piece of art 
> or design at the same time). Also zen gardens which AFAIK are mostly pebbles 
> rather than lawn, will still have some tree (or bonsaii tree).

The question remains how to tag: one area of ~50-100 private gardens as
leisure=garden including the whole residential area whith buildings etc.
or garden by garden.

cheers, Osmonav


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[Tagging] Tag for archbishopric?

2013-12-06 Thread Severin MENARD 
Hi,

Is there a tag for archbishopric or archbishop's palace? And beyond, for
any tag related to religious administrative offices?

Sincerely,

Severin
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Re: [Tagging] Propose the tag shop=military_surplus

2013-12-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 


> Am 06/dic/2013 um 14:20 schrieb SomeoneElse :
> 
>  In this case, there doesn't seem to me much mapping of the concept, and 
> where it has been mapped, military_surplus seems to have been most used, so 
> I'd just use that.


+1, but adding docu to the wiki in order to encourage uniform tagging is nice, 
too.

cheers
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier 

On 06/12/2013 02:05, Masi Master wrote:
I think we don't should tag something at a private (really private) 
ground in a residential (except the house, entrance and way to it). 
IMO we don't need any private things like swimmingpools, ways, trees, 
sandboxes or playgrounds at the backyard in the OSM database.


We do need them - as long as they are in public view. For example, when 
seen from above, swimming pools make excellent points of reference for 
navigation.



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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread bulwersator 
For example to render view of city from OSM data also data about private 
gardens, trees, swimming pools etc are necessary.

 On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 04:26:18 -0800 Matthijs Melissen 
 wrote  


I agree with Martin. Also the fact that an object (parking, garden, swimming 
pool) is private is in itself useful information for the general public. You 
might for example see a parking or garden on aerial imagery, and wonder if it's 
possible to go there.
 Related question: if someone decides to pave their backyard, is it still a 
garden?
 -- Matthijs
 On Dec 6, 2013 12:10 PM, "Martin Koppenhoefer"  
wrote:
 
2013/12/6 Masi Master 
 I think we don't should tag something at a private (really private) ground in 
a residential (except the house, entrance and way to it).
 IMO we don't need any private things like swimmingpools, ways, trees, 
sandboxes or playgrounds at the backyard in the OSM database.
 



-1

What is the argument for putting the house, the entrance and the private way 
then? IMHO we can map private trees, and I also like to map private swimming 
pools. Of course you can map private fences, walls etc., and why not map a 
private waterway? Making an evaluation in which areas of the cities there are 
private pools and in which there aren't might lead to interesting results for 
instance.
 

cheers,
Martin


 
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 


> Am 06/dic/2013 um 13:39 schrieb cracklinrain :
> 
> Well, I would say a stone garden without plants is probably still a
> garden. But an area made of concrete is still a (small) yard or else. If
> it's too strange it should be tagged as artwork maybe.
> 
> But by definition it seems that the aspect of existing plants is important.



it will be decided by the mapper on occasion.
 I have seen some quite unusual gardens with very few plants, but generally 
you'd expect them in a garden (something could be a garden and a piece of art 
or design at the same time). Also zen gardens which AFAIK are mostly pebbles 
rather than lawn, will still have some tree (or bonsaii tree).

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Propose the tag shop=military_surplus

2013-12-06 Thread Chris Hill 

On 06/12/13 13:20, SomeoneElse wrote:

Axelos wrote:


The wiki is not intended to suggest tags to make homogeneous the 
database ?


The wiki's an excellent place for documenting tag usage, but one of 
the things hugely in OSM's favour is that there's no enforced "list of 
legal tags" - if something has never been tagged before, or not much, 
you can just go out and use any tag without asking for permission 
first.  In this case, there doesn't seem to me much mapping of the 
concept, and where it has been mapped, military_surplus seems to have 
been most used, so I'd just use that.

+1

--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


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Re: [Tagging] Propose the tag shop=military_surplus

2013-12-06 Thread Dan S 
2013/12/6 Axelos :
> Hello
>
> Le 05/12/2013 12:16, SomeoneElse a écrit :
>
>> Axelos wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I proposed the tag shop=military_surplus for the shops selling used
>>> military equipment.
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Military_surplus
>>
>>
>> If you think that it makes sense to tag a particular shop that way just go
>> ahead and use it.  You can use any tags you like.  Taginfo can see 9 others
>> so far:
>>
>> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=military+surplus#values
>>
>> You can also have a look in taginfo for other possible "shop values" that
>> might apply - it could be that one of those is used by people instead of
>> "military_surplus".
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andy
>
> The wiki is not intended to suggest tags to make homogeneous the database ?

Yes, but proposing/voting is not really important for simple cases
like this - you want to tag shop=military_surplus, you should go ahead
- there's no need to make big formalities of it, people use all sorts
of shop=* tags. If you want to make a wiki page for that tag, please
do make a wiki page, but don't feel you need to add rfc/voting/etc to
it. I'd suggest you remove the "{{Proposal_Page}}" template, and carry
on mapping :)

Dan

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Re: [Tagging] Propose the tag shop=military_surplus

2013-12-06 Thread SomeoneElse 

Axelos wrote:


The wiki is not intended to suggest tags to make homogeneous the 
database ?


The wiki's an excellent place for documenting tag usage, but one of the 
things hugely in OSM's favour is that there's no enforced "list of legal 
tags" - if something has never been tagged before, or not much, you can 
just go out and use any tag without asking for permission first.  In 
this case, there doesn't seem to me much mapping of the concept, and 
where it has been mapped, military_surplus seems to have been most used, 
so I'd just use that.


Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [Tagging] Propose the tag shop=military_surplus

2013-12-06 Thread Axelos 

Hello

Le 05/12/2013 12:16, SomeoneElse a écrit :

Axelos wrote:


I proposed the tag shop=military_surplus for the shops selling used 
military equipment.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Military_surplus


If you think that it makes sense to tag a particular shop that way 
just go ahead and use it.  You can use any tags you like.  Taginfo can 
see 9 others so far:


http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=military+surplus#values

You can also have a look in taginfo for other possible "shop values" 
that might apply - it could be that one of those is used by people 
instead of "military_surplus".


Cheers,

Andy


The wiki is not intended to suggest tags to make homogeneous the database ?

Cordially

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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread Jonathan 

:-)

http://bigfatfrog67.me

On 06/12/2013 12:32, nounours wrote:
I think we should tag private backyards with "surveillance=yes", even 
if surveillance is executed by a satellite et not a surveillance camera.



:-) nounours77


Am 05.12.2013 um 18:46 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:



2013/12/5 Wolfgang Hinsch >


how should it be tagged? Is it ok to tag the whole residential area
between the streets as one leisure=garden including all buildings
etc.
or shall every garden be tagged as leisure=garden separately in it's
place and only there?



I would only use it on the effective garden area, overlapping the 
landuse=residential area. Buildings and non-garden areas should not 
be included.


cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread cracklinrain 
Am 06.12.2013 13:26, schrieb Matthijs Melissen:
> I agree with Martin. Also the fact that an object (parking, garden,
> swimming pool) is private is in itself useful information for the general
> public. You might for example see a parking or garden on aerial imagery,
> and wonder if it's possible to go there.

Well... I guess that at least at Germany private pools and those which
are open to the public are distinct from each other. To operate
something public you might fit to other rules. On your private property
you might not be forced to control the quality of the water for example.
But this is more a guess.

> Related question: if someone decides to pave their backyard, is it still a
> garden?

Well, I would say a stone garden without plants is probably still a
garden. But an area made of concrete is still a (small) yard or else. If
it's too strange it should be tagged as artwork maybe.

But by definition it seems that the aspect of existing plants is important.

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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread nounours 
I think we should tag private backyards with "surveillance=yes", even if 
surveillance is executed by a satellite et not a surveillance camera.


:-) nounours77


Am 05.12.2013 um 18:46 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:

> 
> 2013/12/5 Wolfgang Hinsch 
> how should it be tagged? Is it ok to tag the whole residential area
> between the streets as one leisure=garden including all buildings etc.
> or shall every garden be tagged as leisure=garden separately in it's
> place and only there?
> 
> 
> I would only use it on the effective garden area, overlapping the 
> landuse=residential area. Buildings and non-garden areas should not be 
> included.
> 
> cheers,
> Martin
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread Matthijs Melissen 
I agree with Martin. Also the fact that an object (parking, garden,
swimming pool) is private is in itself useful information for the general
public. You might for example see a parking or garden on aerial imagery,
and wonder if it's possible to go there.

Related question: if someone decides to pave their backyard, is it still a
garden?

-- Matthijs
On Dec 6, 2013 12:10 PM, "Martin Koppenhoefer" 
wrote:

>
> 2013/12/6 Masi Master 
>
>> I think we don't should tag something at a private (really private)
>> ground in a residential (except the house, entrance and way to it).
>> IMO we don't need any private things like swimmingpools, ways, trees,
>> sandboxes or playgrounds at the backyard in the OSM database.
>>
>
>
> -1
> What is the argument for putting the house, the entrance and the private
> way then? IMHO we can map private trees, and I also like to map private
> swimming pools. Of course you can map private fences, walls etc., and why
> not map a private waterway? Making an evaluation in which areas of the
> cities there are private pools and in which there aren't might lead to
> interesting results for instance.
>
> cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread cracklinrain 
Am 06.12.2013 13:09, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> What is the argument for putting the house, the entrance and the private
> way then? IMHO we can map private trees, and I also like to map private
> swimming pools. Of course you can map private fences, walls etc., and why
> not map a private waterway? 

But all of this is landcover, stuff about water and barriers - no POIs
at all. Leisure seems to be more like a POI.

> Making an evaluation in which areas of the
> cities there are private pools and in which there aren't might lead to
> interesting results for instance.

But private != public. If you are opening your garden to the public it
remains of course as your property. So it is kind of private. But this
private is not the discussed one (it should be tagged as permissive, I
guess).

We are talking about private-non-public. So if somebody is opening his
garden, he is doing it for once. So this is not neccessarily something
we are recording in OSM.

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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 
2013/12/6 Masi Master 

> I think we don't should tag something at a private (really private) ground
> in a residential (except the house, entrance and way to it).
> IMO we don't need any private things like swimmingpools, ways, trees,
> sandboxes or playgrounds at the backyard in the OSM database.
>


-1
What is the argument for putting the house, the entrance and the private
way then? IMHO we can map private trees, and I also like to map private
swimming pools. Of course you can map private fences, walls etc., and why
not map a private waterway? Making an evaluation in which areas of the
cities there are private pools and in which there aren't might lead to
interesting results for instance.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=garden

2013-12-06 Thread nounours 

Am 06.12.2013 um 02:05 schrieb Masi Master:

> I think we don't should tag something at a private (really private) ground in 
> a residential (except the house, entrance and way to it).
> IMO we don't need any private things like swimmingpools, ways, trees, 
> sandboxes or playgrounds at the backyard in the OSM database.
> 
> Cheers,
> Masi

+1
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