Re: [Tagging] Retail but mail order only

[Greg Troxel]

Dave F  writes:

> I've a site of warehouse units containing retail outlets selling goods
> (such as cheese & bathroom/household items), but by mail order
> only. Should these be still tagged as 'shops'? Mail_order=only? Anyone
> have any examples?

Places that do only mail order are not retail relative to a map, because
you can't walk in and buy things.  I would tag them commercial or
industrial, depending on scale.  But probably industrial if they have
large scale trucks, vs commercial if it's just regular UPS pickup.
Arguably we need some commercial=distribution kind of tag for warehouses
that ship goods.  And I'm not sure that whether it is direct to
individual user customer vs wholesale to reseller matters much.
Certainly it feels secondary to describing the main thing.


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[Tagging] Retail but mail order only

[Dave F]

Hi

I've a site of warehouse units containing retail outlets selling goods 
(such as cheese & bathroom/household items), but by mail order only. 
Should these be still tagged as 'shops'? Mail_order=only? Anyone have 
any examples?


DaveF

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Re: [Tagging] Busways

[Bill Ricker]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 5:30 PM, Tijmen Stam  wrote:
> With what type of highway? :-P


Since they are Street-to-Station-to-Street, they are undeniably
Highway=Service .

It was the access=no but what about Pedestrian that reminded me that
these ways had changed access (among bigger changes)

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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-11-07 23:28 GMT+01:00 Tijmen Stam :

> I have never heard that rule!
> In the Netherlands the order of priority is
>
> 1 traffic signallers (i.e. "appointed" people)
> 2 traffic lights
> 3 traffic signs and road markings (on equal level)
> 4 rules of the road
>


You are completely right, and the situation in Germany is the same :)
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__39.html

additionally, yellow (temporary) road markings have a higher priority than
white ones (in Germany).



>
> So under Dutch rules of the road, a situation such as the one Janko showed
> is perfectly legal (although I'm not so sure about the legallity of the
> "give way" sign being on the roundabout centre instead of on the right of
> the road - that'd mean you'd only need to give way before you hit the
> pole
>


+1, also under German law the sign is "regularly on the right" or above the
single lane it is valid for. (source: link above)

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Busways

[Tijmen Stam]

On 06-11-16 22:45, Georg Feddern wrote:

Am 02.11.2016 um 22:57 schrieb Tijmen Stam:

On 02-11-16 20:27, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


careful with access=no, I suggest to use vehicle=no in this case,
because you risk of excluding pedestrians (and other means of
transport you didn't think about) as well (happened around here in
the real life).


That's a good one, although the way most busways are signed (with a
round "no access" sign red border on white circle) in the Netherlands
that means no access at all, not even to pedestrians, not even in the
hard or soft shoulder.


You mean C1?
If I read it right, it is just closed to "persons in charge of animals
or livestock" - but not for pedestrians at all.
Or did I misunderstood you?


You are right. I always thought that meant "closed for everyone" but 
apparently I misremembered. +1 for you!
In the old (1966) law it was even "closed for all traffic except 
pedestrians"


Tijmen


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Re: [Tagging] Busways

[Tijmen Stam]

On 07-11-16 00:06, Bill Ricker wrote:

Thank you all, this thread caused me to notice my nearest mass-transit
station hadn't been re-mapped since it was rebuilt !
Fix uploaded.


With what type of highway? :-P




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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Tijmen Stam]

On 07-11-16 17:48, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2016-11-07 17:34 GMT+01:00 Janko Mihelić mailto:jan...@gmail.com>>:

Here is an example of a not-a-roundabout without lights:

https://goo.gl/maps/TVuMRZs59Kk 

It even has a roundabout sign, but the right of way is clear through
signs on the ground.



actually in case of selfcontradicting signage, the vertical signage has
higher priority than the horizontal signage (aka road markings), i.e.
this is a true roundabout ;-)


I have never heard that rule!
In the Netherlands the order of priority is

1 traffic signallers (i.e. "appointed" people)
2 traffic lights
3 traffic signs and road markings (on equal level)
4 rules of the road

Countrary to popular belief, in the Netherlands you don't have 
precedence when you are on a roundabout - i.e. in practice you have, but 
this is not the law - the precedence is ALWAYS by other signs (such as 
the down-pointing triangle or "shark teeth" triangles on the road)
e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/3VVbGhE7YCn which legally is a roundabout, but 
still has road markings or this roundabout 
https://goo.gl/maps/UQVtqhFH3862 which has traffic lights on them but 
still is a legal roundabout


So under Dutch rules of the road, a situation such as the one Janko 
showed is perfectly legal (although I'm not so sure about the legallity 
of the "give way" sign being on the roundabout centre instead of on the 
right of the road - that'd mean you'd only need to give way before you 
hit the pole


Tijmen

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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 07 nov 2016, alle ore 22:05, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha 
> scritto:
> 
> If these same intersections are to become traffic light controlled then a 
> creating a roundabout is simply putting off the expenditure.


now you build the roundabouts and later your successors have to add the traffic 
lights (if there's more traffic in the future ) ;-)
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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Warin]

On 08-Nov-16 05:25 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:
For the benefit of USAians - Polo mints are shaped enough like 
LifeSavers to have been the subject of much trademark litigation among 
Kraft Foods, Mars UK and Swizzels Matlow.


On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 1:24 PM, Kevin Kenny > wrote:


For the benefit of USAians - Polo mints are shaped enough like
LifeSavers to have been the subject of much trademark litigation
among Kraft Foods, Mars UK and Swizzels Matlow.


On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Philip Barnes
mailto:p...@trigpoint.me.uk>> wrote:

On Mon, 2016-11-07 at 11:29 -0500, Bill Ricker wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Dave F
mailto:davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > From a quick look on Streetview all junctions appear to be
light
> > controlled.
>
>
> Light controlled roundabouts are NOT roundabouts, right ?
>
They most certainly are roundabouts. It depends how they are
signed,
but they are considered to be roundabouts. Non-signalised
roundabouts
are becoming increasingly rare. Most signalised roundabouts do
not have
signals on all roads, those still operate on the normal roundabout
priority.

Telford, for example, was designed in the 1960s by throwing a
packet of
polo mints onto a large piece of paper or was it two packets?
These
days many of the busier roundabouts have signals, to suddenly
declare
them not roundabouts would be ridiculous.



Interesting/
The reason for creating roundabouts rather than traffic lights here is 
cost.
If these same intersections are to become traffic light controlled then 
a creating a roundabout is simply putting off the expenditure.






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Re: [Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Warin]

On 08-Nov-16 04:40 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2016-11-07 18:34 GMT+01:00 Nelson A. de Oliveira >:


The city grew up from a small village, without a city hall. People
named (who knows how) the streets and they stayed named like this.
After achieving its "city" status, with a city hall, laws, etc, some
street names started to be officially voted and defined.




IMHO in your case, all names (official and not) are perfect fits for 
the "name" tag. If you wanted to trace their "officiality" you could 
add the legal basis as a second tag (e.g. source=law xy from 
2016/04/01). This way future verifications would be easier (if you 
already have the details of the voting at hand).




You mean 'source:name=' as source= would imply the source for all the 
applied tag/s and location.



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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Colin Smale]

Wrong - the lights are on top of the priority rules of the roundabout, not 
instead of them. If the lights are not operating, be that due to a time switch 
or a defect, what remains is still a roundabout.

//colin

On 7 November 2016 21:59:45 GMT+05:30, Bill Ricker  wrote:
>On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Dave F 
>wrote:
>> From a quick look on Streetview all junctions appear to be light
>controlled.
>
>
>Light controlled roundabouts are NOT roundabouts, right ?
>
>-- 
>Bill Ricker
>bill.n1...@gmail.com
>https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux
>
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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Kevin Kenny]

For the benefit of USAians - Polo mints are shaped enough like LifeSavers
to have been the subject of much trademark litigation among Kraft Foods,
Mars UK and Swizzels Matlow.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 1:24 PM, Kevin Kenny  wrote:

> For the benefit of USAians - Polo mints are shaped enough like LifeSavers
> to have been the subject of much trademark litigation among Kraft Foods,
> Mars UK and Swizzels Matlow.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Philip Barnes 
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2016-11-07 at 11:29 -0500, Bill Ricker wrote:
>> > On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Dave F 
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > From a quick look on Streetview all junctions appear to be light
>> > > controlled.
>> >
>> >
>> > Light controlled roundabouts are NOT roundabouts, right ?
>> >
>> They most certainly are roundabouts. It depends how they are signed,
>> but they are considered to be roundabouts. Non-signalised roundabouts
>> are becoming increasingly rare. Most signalised roundabouts do not have
>> signals on all roads, those still operate on the normal roundabout
>> priority.
>>
>> Telford, for example, was designed in the 1960s by throwing a packet of
>> polo mints onto a large piece of paper or was it two packets? These
>> days many of the busier roundabouts have signals, to suddenly declare
>> them not roundabouts would be ridiculous.
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Philip Barnes]

On Mon, 2016-11-07 at 11:29 -0500, Bill Ricker wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Dave F 
> wrote:
> > 
> > From a quick look on Streetview all junctions appear to be light
> > controlled.
> 
> 
> Light controlled roundabouts are NOT roundabouts, right ?
> 
They most certainly are roundabouts. It depends how they are signed,
but they are considered to be roundabouts. Non-signalised roundabouts
are becoming increasingly rare. Most signalised roundabouts do not have
signals on all roads, those still operate on the normal roundabout
priority.

Telford, for example, was designed in the 1960s by throwing a packet of
polo mints onto a large piece of paper or was it two packets? These
days many of the busier roundabouts have signals, to suddenly declare
them not roundabouts would be ridiculous.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-11-07 18:34 GMT+01:00 Nelson A. de Oliveira :

> The city grew up from a small village, without a city hall. People
> named (who knows how) the streets and they stayed named like this.
> After achieving its "city" status, with a city hall, laws, etc, some
> street names started to be officially voted and defined.
>



IMHO in your case, all names (official and not) are perfect fits for the
"name" tag. If you wanted to trace their "officiality" you could add the
legal basis as a second tag (e.g. source=law xy from 2016/04/01). This way
future verifications would be easier (if you already have the details of
the voting at hand).

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-11-07 18:18 GMT+01:00 Tom Pfeifer :

>
> The only contradiction is that there should be no blue roundabout sign, as
> long as that regulates priority in the local traffic law.



this is indeed the question (priority in croatia because of roundabout
sign), because if there's a contradiction, it's a contradiction and the
situation is somehow unregulated (even if it's "only" one contradiction).

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Nelson A. de Oliveira]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
 wrote:
> this whole "official name" story isn't completely obvious either. Who is the
> entity to decide on the name?

The city grew up from a small village, without a city hall. People
named (who knows how) the streets and they stayed named like this.
After achieving its "city" status, with a city hall, laws, etc, some
street names started to be officially voted and defined.

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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 07.11.2016 17:09, Dave F wrote:

Hi Daniel

Second example: Which junction has priority? From a quick look on
Streetview all junctions appear to be light controlled.


In Berlin, from where the examples are taken, you have unlit 
give-way+main-street signage even when the junction is light controlled. 
 In the given examples, there are a few more in Berlin, there are major 
multi-lane roads crossing. Typically when one of them is a federal 
highway (Bundesstrasse), the latter is given priority to cross the 
installation, and the traffic from the other roads has to wait.


A similar situation is on Grosser Stern, where all circular traffic has 
to give way, and all incoming has priority. Again, when the lights are off.


tom


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Re: [Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-11-07 17:45 GMT+01:00 Nelson A. de Oliveira :

> Exactly this.
> There are streets named since the beggining, but they aren't officialized
> yet.
> They could even have their name changed after being officialized, but
> they aren't loc_name nor reg_name; they are in fact the "name".




this whole "official name" story isn't completely obvious either. Who is
the entity to decide on the name? What if different "official" entities
have different ideas about it? E.g. in Italy it's up to the municipality (I
think) to decide on the street names. The municipal council will have
assigned the names in the past, but now there is another entity, the
national agency for statistics, who has decided on the details of
orthography in street names - nationwide, and the lists they publish follow
these rules. The local councils should make new laws to change the names
accordingly, but not all have done so. And even if they had, they will not
have changed all signs (too expensive), but what is on the ground is quite
important for us in osm, because it's what our users will find on the
ground.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 07.11.2016 17:48, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2016-11-07 17:34 GMT+01:00 Janko Mihelić

Here is an example of a not-a-roundabout without lights:

https://goo.gl/maps/TVuMRZs59Kk 

It even has a roundabout sign, but the right of way is clear through
signs on the ground.

actually in case of selfcontradicting signage, the vertical signage has
higher priority than the horizontal signage (aka road markings), i.e.
this is a true roundabout ;-)


if you look on the second pair of signs posted at the mast, you see the 
back of the "give way" sign for the traffic from the other road. Thus 
the signs on the mast and on the ground are in sync.


The only contradiction is that there should be no blue roundabout sign, 
as long as that regulates priority in the local traffic law.


tom


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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-11-07 17:34 GMT+01:00 Janko Mihelić :

> Here is an example of a not-a-roundabout without lights:
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/TVuMRZs59Kk
>
> It even has a roundabout sign, but the right of way is clear through signs
> on the ground.



actually in case of selfcontradicting signage, the vertical signage has
higher priority than the horizontal signage (aka road markings), i.e. this
is a true roundabout ;-)


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-11-07 17:09 GMT+01:00 Dave F :

> Second example: Which junction has priority? From a quick look on
> Streetview all junctions appear to be light controlled.



what about light controlled junctions that are so only part of the day and
(e.g. at night) they are behaving like ordinary roundabouts?

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Nelson A. de Oliveira]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Michał Brzozowski  wrote:
> I too thought it has a troll-tag potential. But if the name's on the ground...
> A similar thing that came to my mind some time ago are named alleys on
> allotment gardens. These are not official names, yet they're on the
> ground. It'd be sensible to exclude them from reverse geocoding and
> street list generation, probably downplay them in search results, but
> keep displaying them as normal.

Exactly this.
There are streets named since the beggining, but they aren't officialized yet.
They could even have their name changed after being officialized, but
they aren't loc_name nor reg_name; they are in fact the "name".

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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Janko Mihelić]

Here is an example of a not-a-roundabout without lights:

https://goo.gl/maps/TVuMRZs59Kk

It even has a roundabout sign, but the right of way is clear through signs
on the ground.

Janko
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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Bill Ricker]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Dave F  wrote:
> From a quick look on Streetview all junctions appear to be light controlled.


Light controlled roundabouts are NOT roundabouts, right ?

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:

> Please don't. First, this is kind of troll-tagging, first declaring
> something a name and in the next line denying it. Second, the "name:*"
> namespace is declared for real names (name:LL and name:left|right), not for
> additional attributes.

I too thought it has a troll-tag potential. But if the name's on the ground...
A similar thing that came to my mind some time ago are named alleys on
allotment gardens. These are not official names, yet they're on the
ground. It'd be sensible to exclude them from reverse geocoding and
street list generation, probably downplay them in search results, but
keep displaying them as normal.

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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Dave F]

Hi Daniel

Second example: Which junction has priority? From a quick look on 
Streetview all junctions appear to be light controlled.


Could you expand on what 'special instructions' the routing engine is 
not able to issue?


DaveF

On 07/11/2016 14:30, Daniel Hofmann wrote:
Over at OSRM we're not only doing Routing on OSM but also Guidance for 
users once a suitable route is found. In order to make the user 
experience great and the instructions pleasant to use we differentiate 
between


1/ Roundabouts
Think: "at the roundabout take the nth exit"

2/ Roundabout Intersections
These are roundabouts with up to four ways and turn angles which makes 
the turns obvious.

Think: "at the roundabout turn left"

3/ Rotaries
These are large and named roundabouts.
Think: "at Meinplatz take the nth exit"

4/ Not-a-Roundabout (what this post is about)
There are situations where one of the entering road has right of way, 
which disqualifies the scenario for being classified as a roundabout. 
The Wiki has a section on these Not-a-Roundabouts:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout#Not_a_roundabout
> In all these cases, the key “junction” is not necessary at all. You 
need no special tagging.


Most of these Not-a-Roundabouts have a note on them, telling users not 
to tag them as junction=roundabout as this is a common mistake. Here 
are two examples in Berlin:


Bersarinplatz

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288767318#map=19/52.51849/13.45355&layers=D

http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car&route=52.51786%2C13.45348%3B52.51918%2C13.45281#map=19/52.51852/13.45327

Kottbusser Tor

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/159155852#map=19/52.49898/13.41881&layers=D

http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car&route=52.49915%2C13.41952%3B52.49857%2C13.41852#map=19/52.49896/13.41865

As you can tell, for both of those situations the routing engine is 
not able to issue special instructions since there is no tag to parse. 
And parsing note tags for the occurrence of roundabout is not a 
solution ;)


With the current situations of having note="don't tag as roundabout" 
pseudo-tags on most of those it would make sense to establish a proper 
junction=not_a_roundabout tag (tag is up for discussion) software can 
parse and make use of.


What's your opinion on Not-a-Roundabout?

Cheers,
Daniel J H


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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Bill Ricker]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Daniel Hofmann  wrote:
>
> 4/ Not-a-Roundabout (what this post is about)
> There are situations where one of the entering road has right of way, which
> disqualifies the scenario for being classified as a roundabout. The Wiki has
> a section on these Not-a-Roundabouts:

One hopes arm-chair mappers not fluent in German will keep hands off,
or use translate.google, when they see a Note in German.

Then there's the classic roundabout / rotary / traffic circle that
straddles a state boundary in USA; in one state, vehicles already in
the rotary have right of way, and in the other state, vehicles
entering have right of way. (Even though the latter isn't scalable at
all, unless flow is strongly diurnal, it's their law from early
motoring era.) I don't recall which two states. One can hope it's
been modernized but i can't remember where to check ...

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Bryan Housel]

Previous discussion: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2014-June/017805.html 


Some people suggested `junction=traffic_circle`
It’s used in taginfo a few times but pretty unofficial and rare.

Bryan



> On Nov 7, 2016, at 9:30 AM, Daniel Hofmann  wrote:
> 
> Over at OSRM we're not only doing Routing on OSM but also Guidance for users 
> once a suitable route is found. In order to make the user experience great 
> and the instructions pleasant to use we differentiate between
> 
> 1/ Roundabouts
> Think: "at the roundabout take the nth exit"
> 
> 2/ Roundabout Intersections
> These are roundabouts with up to four ways and turn angles which makes the 
> turns obvious.
> Think: "at the roundabout turn left"
> 
> 3/ Rotaries
> These are large and named roundabouts.
> Think: "at Meinplatz take the nth exit"
> 
> 4/ Not-a-Roundabout (what this post is about)
> There are situations where one of the entering road has right of way, which 
> disqualifies the scenario for being classified as a roundabout. The Wiki has 
> a section on these Not-a-Roundabouts:
> 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout#Not_a_roundabout 
> 
> > In all these cases, the key “junction” is not necessary at all. You need no 
> > special tagging. 
> 
> Most of these Not-a-Roundabouts have a note on them, telling users not to tag 
> them as junction=roundabout as this is a common mistake. Here are two 
> examples in Berlin:
> 
> Bersarinplatz
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288767318#map=19/52.51849/13.45355&layers=D 
> 
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car&route=52.51786%2C13.45348%3B52.51918%2C13.45281#map=19/52.51852/13.45327
>  
> 
> 
> Kottbusser Tor
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/159155852#map=19/52.49898/13.41881&layers=D 
> 
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car&route=52.49915%2C13.41952%3B52.49857%2C13.41852#map=19/52.49896/13.41865
>  
> 
> 
> As you can tell, for both of those situations the routing engine is not able 
> to issue special instructions since there is no tag to parse. And parsing 
> note tags for the occurrence of roundabout is not a solution ;)
> 
> With the current situations of having note="don't tag as roundabout" 
> pseudo-tags on most of those it would make sense to establish a proper 
> junction=not_a_roundabout tag (tag is up for discussion) software can parse 
> and make use of.
> 
> What's your opinion on Not-a-Roundabout?
> 
> Cheers,
> Daniel J H
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Re: [Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 07.11.2016 13:03, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

On Mon, 2016-11-07 at 09:57 -0200, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote:

Situation: there is a city where all the streets are named (using the
"name" tag).
Some of the names are official (recognized by the city hall, by law,
etc) and some are not yet officially recognized.

Is there a way to differentiate official names from non-official?

Using only official_name in the recognized streets won't make sense.
Using name + official_name, both with the same exact value, won't also
make sense I guess.

Do anybody know a good way to say that some streets are officially
named, please?


For the streets named but not officially recognized, maybe something
like name=* + name:official=no perhaps? (where name:official defaults to
yes if not specified)


Please don't. First, this is kind of troll-tagging, first declaring 
something a name and in the next line denying it. Second, the "name:*" 
namespace is declared for real names (name:LL and name:left|right), not 
for additional attributes.


Thus it would be better to use a key describing what the particular name 
actually is. If it is a name locally or regionally used, then we have 
loc_name and reg_name.


tom

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[Tagging] Proper Tag for Not-a-Roundabout

[Daniel Hofmann]

Over at OSRM we're not only doing Routing on OSM but also Guidance for
users once a suitable route is found. In order to make the user experience
great and the instructions pleasant to use we differentiate between

1/ Roundabouts
Think: "at the roundabout take the nth exit"

2/ Roundabout Intersections
These are roundabouts with up to four ways and turn angles which makes the
turns obvious.
Think: "at the roundabout turn left"

3/ Rotaries
These are large and named roundabouts.
Think: "at Meinplatz take the nth exit"

4/ Not-a-Roundabout (what this post is about)
There are situations where one of the entering road has right of way, which
disqualifies the scenario for being classified as a roundabout. The Wiki
has a section on these Not-a-Roundabouts:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout#Not_a_roundabout
> In all these cases, the key “junction” is not necessary at all. You need
no special tagging.

Most of these Not-a-Roundabouts have a note on them, telling users not to
tag them as junction=roundabout as this is a common mistake. Here are two
examples in Berlin:

Bersarinplatz

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/288767318#map=19/52.51849/13.45355&layers=D

http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car&route=52.51786%2C13.45348%3B52.51918%2C13.45281#map=19/52.51852/13.45327

Kottbusser Tor

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/159155852#map=19/52.49898/13.41881&layers=D

http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car&route=52.49915%2C13.41952%3B52.49857%2C13.41852#map=19/52.49896/13.41865

As you can tell, for both of those situations the routing engine is not
able to issue special instructions since there is no tag to parse. And
parsing note tags for the occurrence of roundabout is not a solution ;)

With the current situations of having note="don't tag as roundabout"
pseudo-tags on most of those it would make sense to establish a proper
junction=not_a_roundabout tag (tag is up for discussion) software can parse
and make use of.

What's your opinion on Not-a-Roundabout?

Cheers,
Daniel J H
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Re: [Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On Mon, 2016-11-07 at 09:57 -0200, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote:
> Situation: there is a city where all the streets are named (using the
> "name" tag).
> Some of the names are official (recognized by the city hall, by law,
> etc) and some are not yet officially recognized.
> 
> Is there a way to differentiate official names from non-official?
> 
> Using only official_name in the recognized streets won't make sense.
> Using name + official_name, both with the same exact value, won't also
> make sense I guess.
> 
> Do anybody know a good way to say that some streets are officially
> named, please?

For the streets named but not officially recognized, maybe something
like name=* + name:official=no perhaps? (where name:official defaults to
yes if not specified)

That's the only way I can think of doesn't break anything.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 


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[Tagging] Differentiating streets with official name from non-official yet name

[Nelson A. de Oliveira]

Situation: there is a city where all the streets are named (using the
"name" tag).
Some of the names are official (recognized by the city hall, by law,
etc) and some are not yet officially recognized.

Is there a way to differentiate official names from non-official?

Using only official_name in the recognized streets won't make sense.
Using name + official_name, both with the same exact value, won't also
make sense I guess.

Do anybody know a good way to say that some streets are officially
named, please?

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