Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - landcover proposal V2

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Hello all,

We have completely rewritten the proposal based on all the feedback we 
received. It should be much clearer now what we want and especially, why we 
think this change is a good idea. This rewrite should clarify a lot of the 
things.

We would like to receive feedback.

For reference, here is the link again:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landcover_proposal_V2

Kind regards,
Vincent



___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - landcover proposal V2

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

In your examples you are mixing functional and physical tags.

At first, we actually deprecate landuse=grass so that is -1 tag for grass.

"Even if you succeed in replacing over 5 million uses of landuse=grass with 
landcover=grass there will still be areas of landuse=meadow and 
natural=grassland which are not precisely defined". Refining those tags is 
outside of the scope of this proposal. Fact is that the physical landcover is 
grass. That is why landcover=grass is implied on these tags. 

Tags like leisure=recreation_ground and landuse=greenfield are functional tags. 
They describe a function. A recreation ground can consist of multiple 
landcover. Therefore, leisure=recreation_ground does not imply landcover=grass 
but it can contain landcover=grass but also other physical coverages.

leisure=pitch, as described, on the proposal should be tagged with 
surface=grass. That implies landcover=grass but the surface tag it self is a 
property of something (e.g. a pitch or highway), not a main feature it self.

Kind regards,

Vincent



16 feb. 2023 05:00 van joseph_eisenberg_at_gmail_com_mb...@simplelogin.co:

>
> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.More info on > anti-phishing measure 
> <https://simplelogin.io/docs/getting-started/anti-phishing/>
>
> Problem: there are 3+ tags for areas of mostly grass with sometimes 
> overlapping meaning, in 2 different keys (landuse=meadow, natural=grassland, 
> landuse=grass)
>
> Solution(?): 4+ tags for areas of grass with overlapping meaning, in 3 
> different keys
>
> I don’t see how this will be an improvement. 
>
> Even if you succeed in replacing over 5 million uses of landuse=grass with 
> landcover=grass there will still be areas of landuse=meadow and 
> natural=grassland which are not precisely defined, not to mention other areas 
> with grass surface such as leisure=pitch and leisure=recreation_ground, 
> landuse=village_green, landuse=greenfield, etc
>
> -Joseph Eisenberg
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 12:38 PM Cartographer10 via Tagging <> 
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
>
>> We have significantly updated the proposal. We have removed most of the 
>> proposed values and only trees and grass are left. This to reduce the scope 
>> of the proposal.
>>
>> We also tried to better explain that with this proposal, we aim to improve 
>> the tagging scheme in the long term. This proposal is basically a building 
>> block other can build upon to improve the tagging scheme (e.g >> 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Forest#Which_tag_should_be_used>> ?). 
>>
>> I hope that this address some of the raised concerns and creates more 
>> meaning for the proposal.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>  Tagging mailing list
>>  >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>>  >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - landcover proposal V2

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

We have significantly updated the proposal. We have removed most of the 
proposed values and only trees and grass are left. This to reduce the scope of 
the proposal.

We also tried to better explain that with this proposal, we aim to improve the 
tagging scheme in the long term. This proposal is basically a building block 
other can build upon to improve the tagging scheme (e.g 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Forest#Which_tag_should_be_used?). 

I hope that this address some of the raised concerns and creates more meaning 
for the proposal.
Kind regards,

Vincent



___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - landcover proposal V2

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

>
> Anyone suggesting widespread changes such as this needs to  explain how 
> this proposal will help with at least one of the  following:
>
> 1) Allowing new mappers to contribute to OSM easier than they
> currently can
> 2) Allowing some nuance to be captured that can't be captured now
> 3) Make life easier for data consumers in some way
>
> and the benefit needs to be proportional to the necessary  upheaval 
> (which in this case would be significant).  Note that  "satisfying the 
> data normalisation urges of people familiar with  working with databases" 
> isn't on that list. 
>
>
Though also explained in the proposal, let me answer these:

1) New mappers often have trouble learning how to map 
landuse/natural/landcover. It is not always clear when to use the different 
tags and when not. However, assessing the physical landcover is much easier. 
You can say, this area is covered with grass, no matter the function of that 
area. And even experienced mappers like me sometimes struggle to find the 
correct tag why the physical landcover is clear. Therefore, the landcover tag 
will make mapping much easier for new mappers.
2) I personally often face that I can't properly access the function of a piece 
of land. Instead of possible incorrectly tagging with with e.g. a landuse tag, 
tagging it with landcover instead is much better because you can describe the 
physical coverage. Somebody with more knowledge can then maybe add the function 
of tag with another tag.
3.1) First of all, it makes rendering easier because the values are much better 
separated. For example, you no longer have a physical tag 
(landuse=grass/flowerbed) in the same key as a functional tag (e.g. 
landuse=residential). 3.2) The tagging system and thus the data is easier to 
understand for a data consumer. Now they have to learn all the strangeness of 
the current landuse/natural/landcover tagging system. 

So it is not just "satisfying the data normalisation urges of people familiar 
with  working with databases". Using landcover will result in long term 
improvements for the tagging scheme. Even we now have to make some hard choices 
on some existing tags.

Regards,
Vincent 


13 feb. 2023 14:10 van ajt1047_at_gmail_com_byf...@simplelogin.co:

>
> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.More info on > anti-phishing measure 
> 
>
>
> > By the way, I saw some changes leading to x10 contribution  rates and 
> > be criticized as disrupting longstanding practices or  established 
> > tagging.
>
>
> An actual example would be really useful here.
>
>
> > Establishment nor longstanding practices shouldn't be valid  reasons on 
> > their own to justify decision making about tagging. 
>
>
> Indeed - if a proposal (even a reorganisation of existing usage)  allows 
> better information to be collected then it makes sense to  do it.  The 
> "diplomatic" reorganisation was one such (though the  implementation was 
> botched).  In this case, I'm not convinced that  this proposal has any 
> benefit.  We have edge cases now; after this  proposal we will still have 
> a whole bunch of slightly different  edge cases.
>
>
> > How about considering tagging as an independent valuable  thing we 
> > should take care of as well?
>
>
> Because it isn't?  It's literally just describing how things are  stored 
> within OSM.  Anyone coming to OpenStreetMap as a mapper for  the first 
> time won't see tags at all - their editor will look  after that for them. 
>  A data consumer will have a simplified view  of the world and will have 
> to map OSM concepts into the ones that  they are interested in.  
>
>
> As a concrete example, here:
>
>
> https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L6003
>
>
> is where I take a bunch of things from OSM and map them into a  concept 
> that is displayed on a map ("Variety Stores", shown with a  "£" 
> symbol**).  A map for a different platform, here:
>
>
> https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/mkgmap_style_ajt/blob/master/transform_03.lua#L1760
>
>
> has a mapping onto a different category, "General Stores".  This  is 
> because this map is for Garmin devices which (by default) have  a 
> hardcoded series of categories that the search menus know about,  and 
> "Variety Stores" isn't one of them, but "General Stores" is.
>
>
> Almost no-one in the outside world is going to want to  distinguish 
> between the actual OSM values here; they're only  interested in their own 
> real-world concepts.  In many cases this  may be much broader-brush, 
> perhaps "shops that sell food" vs  "shows that primarily sell non-food", 
> or even just "shops".
>
>
> Anyone suggesting widespread changes such as this needs to  explain how 
> this proposal 

[Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - landcover proposal V2

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Tjuro and I started a proposal to formalize the usage of `landcover=*`. The 
proposal is now open for feedback 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/landcover_proposal_V2

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

Kind regards,
VIncent___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Approved - Announce proposals on the community forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Hello everybody,

With 53 votes and 90% approve, the proposal  "Announce proposals on the 
community forum" has been approved.

Thank you for everybody who voted and participated in the discussion. I will 
update the proposal process wiki today.

Greetings,
Vincent 
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Announce proposals on the community forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

There are several people who approved the previous vote with the explanation 
that they don't like the ML and that some are actually discouraged to make a 
proposal.

"you say it again but i have never seen a proposal write that is blocked 
because the person did not post to the mailing list"

Of course not because people would abandon the proposal if they read the 
requirements.


7 jan. 2023 18:55 van marc_marc_at_mailo_com_xrkimi...@simplelogin.co:

> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.
> More info on https://simplelogin.io/docs/getting-started/anti-phishing/
>  --
> Le 07.01.23 à 18:39, Cartographer10 via Tagging a écrit :
> For proposal authors, it means that they don't specifically  have to interact 
> with the ML. 
> that is what I call a fragmentation, that's what happend
> with the fragmentaiton of the fr community
>
>> There are people who feel discouraged to make a proposal because of the ML 
>> requirements
>>
>
> you say it again but i have never seen a proposal write that is blocked 
> because the person did not post to the mailing list. if that was the case, 
> you propose to post to the mailing list. so this problem does not exist. it 
> would be really beneficial not to contradict you.
> the only consequence of an acceptance of this proposal will be that some 
> proposals will be discussed *only* on the forum (because as you say some 
> don't want to discuss on the list AND because there is an impatience to 
> discuss the proposals there even if the forum is currently failing for a 
> correct use by email).
>
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Announce proposals on the community forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

This is not a proposal against the ML. The title is correct because it extends 
the current proposal process with the requirement to make announcements on the 
new forum along the ML.

As the previous vote showed, there are quite some people who don't like the ML. 
This proposal allows people to get notifications about RFC and votes by using 
the new forum. For proposal authors, it means that they don't specifically have 
to interact with the ML. There are people who feel discouraged to make a 
proposal because of the ML requirements. I just want to give those also a 
change to participate.

Vincent

7 jan. 2023 18:31 van marc_marc_at_mailo_com_xrkimi...@simplelogin.co:

> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.
> More info on https://simplelogin.io/docs/getting-started/anti-phishing/
>  --
> Le 07.01.23 à 17:17, Cartographer10 via Tagging a écrit :
>
>> Announce proposals on the community forum
>>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Announce_proposals_on_the_community_forum
>  
> t is revealing to see that you left a remnant of "switch to the forum", which 
> seems since the real purpose of this proposal
> still a no : this proposal is "against" the mailing list.
> if the goal was to receive only the messages of the proposal announcements, 
> then the solution would have been either to write how to make an email 
> filter, or to make a tagging-announcement list, not to want to end that 
> everyone must open a web browser to read a message
>
> but i don't doubt that by forcing it without giving up,
> it will eventually pass this time or in its version 42
>
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Announce proposals on the community forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Hello everybody,

Thank you all for providing feedback on my proposal. I opened voting for: 
Announce proposals on the community forum

You can place your vote on the wikipage 
below:https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Announce_proposals_on_the_community_forum

Kind regards,
Vincent___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Based on the feedback I have received I made some changes to theproposal:


1) I added a smallchange in the proposal template to add notes as reminder that 
useradds the links of discussion on the forum and ML to the proposal.


2) I removed thewords “new forum” and replaced it with community forum since 
theforum has been in use for some time already.


3) I added that it is always the proposal author’s responsibility to make 
sureannouncements get cross posted if needed. The author needs to checkthe 
forum or the ML archive to see if the announcement has been crossposted.


4) On the forum,there is a sub community for tagging discussion. 
Proposalannouncements can be made there. People can follow the 
tag“wiki-proposal” to subscribe to new topics if they don’t wantto follow the 
entire sub community. If the traffic increases, aspecial sub community for 
proposals can be requested (if enoughmoderators can be found).





I hope that withthis I addressed everybody their concerns regarding this change.





Proposal link: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Announce_proposals_on_the_community_forum


Vincent



13 nov. 2022 16:01 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:

> I didn't receive any feedback on my updated proposal. If you have any, please 
> share it here. I hope that the current proposal will for everybody.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Vincent
>
>
>
> 6 nov. 2022 09:03 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:
>
>> I have updated the proposal a few days back which I would like to receive 
>> feedback on.
>>
>> I removed the transition period and required both the forum and the ML to be 
>> notified of a new proposal or vote. One exception I propose is that the 
>> proposal should be allowed to be made on behalf of the proposal author on 
>> either the ML or the forum. 
>>
>> I hope that this change will satisfy both sides
>>
>> Vincent
>>
>>
>> 29 okt. 2022 09:34 van 
>> tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:
>>
>>> Hello everybody,
>>>
>>> Based on the feedback, I updated the proposal to start using the new forum 
>>> for proposal announcements. 
>>>
>>> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Start_moving_proposal_announcements_to_the_new_forum>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Vincent
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

> Question is: did you then collect all the points those extra communities made 
> (both those you agreed with, and those
> that you didn't agree with), and summarized them on wiki /talk page, for 
> extra period of RFC? Because if you didn't
> (especially if you didn't include things you _disagreed_ with) then you 
> abused that input to promote your personal view,
> and disregarded the best parts that such other views could provide.
>
The proposal has a section "external discussion". There the largest external 
discussions are listed. These are all publicly accessible sources so people can 
read what has been discussed there. I have also send updates when I changed 
major things in the proposal. I can image if you announce it on a closed 
platform like Discord, that a summary on the talk page can be useful. 


> I can imagine quite bad things, but to be fair, here is a most realistic one 
> instead: On each changing of status quo,
> some people will leave the process for good, as that will be the straw that 
> broke the camel's back. If you need to
> learn from history, see the debate when OSM changed license from CC-BY-SA to 
> ODbL. And then, if another proposal
> changes situation back to what it was before, that will NOT cause (majority 
> of) people that left to come back.
> It will instead cause some MORE people to leave for good (in revolt).
>
There are always people who don't agree with a change. EVERY proposal or 
changes has that. If more then 75% of the people agree you can assume that 
enough people support it. And of course, taking the status quo into account is 
important. However, if you can't change the status quo, you never move forward.


20 nov. 2022 02:24 van 
mnalis-openstreetmaplist_at_voyager_hr_prfkut...@simplelogin.co:

> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.
> More info on https://simplelogin.io/docs/getting-started/anti-phishing/
>  
> ----------
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 12:12:22 +0100 (CET), Cartographer10 via Tagging 
>  wrote:
>
>> I always had good discussion on several platforms for my proposal. Each 
>> community or person has another view
>> which I collect this way.
>>
>
> Nobody (at least I hope) questions that extra communities (or extra persons 
> is same community) have extra input to
> provide!
>
> Question is: did you then collect all the points those extra communities made 
> (both those you agreed with, and those
> that you didn't agree with), and summarized them on wiki /talk page, for 
> extra period of RFC? Because if you didn't
> (especially if you didn't include things you _disagreed_ with) then you 
> abused that input to promote your personal view,
> and disregarded the best parts that such other views could provide.
>
> And if you did exactly that - I salute you. Could you link to that proposal 
> where that was done?
>
>> This proposal makes sure there are 2 required platforms where people have to 
>> announce it. That way people have the
>> choice to follow one of the two channels of their choice to get updated on 
>> proposals. It is up to the proposal author
>> to announce it on other channels to increase the reach.
>>
>
> I'd at least put in a requirement that if proposal author announces the 
> discussion in X extra channels (i.e. anywhere
> more than Tagging ML), that they must follow ALL that X extra channels and 
> summarize in Wiki Talk page all points that
> have been risen (including those that they think don't matter or disagree 
> with. Especially those!) and THEN have extra
> RFC period after all those X channels have been summarized, before proceeding 
> to the Voting. 
>
> Because, someone has to do that summarizing work for extra channels to make 
> sense, and it is IMHO only fair that would
> be proposal author (expecting that EVERYBODY will do that SAME task is both 
> extremely wasteful, hugely unrealistic,
> and likely to lead to few participating members willing to do that becoming 
> burned out prematurely).
>
>> And btw, if this proposal really turns out bad (which I doubt), it can 
>> always be reverted by someone creating a
>> proposal for it. Sometimes you also have to try something. What is the worst 
>> thing that can happen?
>>
>
> I can imagine quite bad things, but to be fair, here is a most realistic one 
> instead: On each changing of status quo,
> some people will leave the process for good, as that will be the straw that 
> broke the camel's back. If you need to
> learn from history, see the debate when OSM changed license from CC-BY-SA to 
> ODbL. And then, if another proposal
> changes situation back to what it was before, that 

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

My experience is that proposals are already announced on several channels other 
then the current required mailing list. I always had good discussion on several 
platforms for my proposal. Each community or person has another view which I 
collect this way.

This proposal makes sure there are 2 required platforms where people have to 
announce it. That way people have the choice to follow one of the two channels 
of their choice to get updated on proposals. It is up to the proposal author to 
announce it on other channels to increase the reach.

And btw, if this proposal really turns out bad (which I doubt), it can always 
be reverted by someone creating a proposal for it. Sometimes you also have to 
try something. What is the worst thing that can happen?


19 nov. 2022 02:39 van 
mnalis-openstreetmaplist_at_voyager_hr_prfkut...@simplelogin.co:

> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.
> More info on https://simplelogin.io/docs/getting-started/anti-phishing/
>  
> --
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 08:49:46 -0500, Brian M. Sperlongano 
>  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 2:49 AM Marc_marc  wrote:
>>
>>> We can see it with the osm-fr experience: the immature forum has split
>>> the community, far from federating
>>>
>>
>> Thank you for clearly describing the root cause of your objection.
>>
>> In my opinion, it is better to let people decide for themselves where they
>> wish to communicate.
>>
>
> If it is indeed better (which I personally am not convinced), then why not
> change the proposal to ask that, in addition to the tagging mailing list,
> proposal might (or should?) be announced at *as many contact channels as
> possible* of those listed at 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contact_channels
> (and the proponents should monitor all of them where they posted, and 
> incorporete 
> ideas from then on wiki proposal page).
>
> That way, maximum reach will be accomplished, and all "people could decide for
> themselves where they wish to communicate". So instead of say 30 messages on
> tagging mailing list for some proposal, we can have 5 messages on tagging ML, 
> 2
> on Discourse, 4 on telegram (1-2 in each of the groups), 2 on Discord, 3 on
> IRC, 3 on Matrix, 2 on Mastodon, 2 on Slack, 2 on Reddit, 2 on facebook,
> 1 on twitter and 2 on OSM Diary of proposer. Do you spot the problem here? 
> Because I do.
>
> So, I still think that the more channels, the less useful the exchange of 
> ideas
> will be, due to fragmentation. Even with "only" wiki talk page + tagging
> mailing list (current situation), the disconnect is quite bad (and were it not
> for few people pulling double-hours on both channels, would be very bad).
> Increasing that fragmentation by another 50% does not sound like good idea to
> me. We should work toward *reducing* that fragmentation, not encouraging
> increasing it.
>
> ---
>
> I'd rather that Tagging ML + Discourse Tagging category become properly
> integrated (i.e. that one participate using EITHER channel, and see all
> comments from BOTH channels) - as I noted in linked github issue on proposal
> talk page.
>
> Like, for example, I'm reading and writing this on NNTP (Usenet News) gateway
> news.gmane.io, which *is* properly integrated with tagging mailing list.
> Everything I write here, people will see in their Mail clients, and everything
> they reply I will see in my News client.
>
> That same level of integration could (hopefully will?) be accomplished with
> Discourse - so people will see the SAME messages whether there use Discourse
> HTTPS, Email SMTP, or News NNTP interface. 
>
> Which solves the whole issue, without raising tensions. Win-win for everyone.
>
> -- 
> Opinions above are GNU-copylefted.
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Thanks for the reminder, I had a busy week so I didn't have time to change it.
Here it is 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Announce_proposals_on_the_new_forum



19 nov. 2022 02:56 van 
mnalis-openstreetmaplist_at_voyager_hr_prfkut...@simplelogin.co:

> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.
> More info on https://simplelogin.io/docs/getting-started/anti-phishing/
>  
> --
>
> Have you managed to do it yet? Could you post the URL, if so?
>
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 07:06:10 +0100 (CET), Cartographer10 via Tagging 
>  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reminder. I indeed forgot to update the title after i changed 
>> the proposal. Will do that soon.
>>
>>> But before we get that far, I recommend that the proposal's title be 
>>> adjusted slightly. The current title implies that discussions would start 
>>> "moving" to the new forums, which implies a loss of activity here. That's 
>>> no longer on the table, so "Announce proposals to the new forum" would 
>>> suffice.
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> Opinions above are GNU-copylefted.
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

"here is the logical error: no the forum does not attract a global audience, it 
may one day, now it is in test, half of the things do not work and therefore 
let us leave time to have a functional forum (including by email) in stead of 
trying to an attempts of discussion where the current majority of the 
participants are not, with an aim of satisfying those which do not produce for 
the moment much content level proposal (because if it were the case, the forum 
would be already very used for the discussion of the proposals of these 
people)."

First of all, the new forum is not is testing. You can no longer create topics 
on the old forum. There are already quite some topics being made on the new 
forum.
Secondly, the forum is intended to be a central discussion place for OSM. It 
makes perfectly sense to also require announcements to be made on the new 
forum. 60% votes for this move during the first vote. The current proposal will 
provide a way for everybody to use the platform of their choice. Seems like a 
fair middle ground to me.

"empty argument, the mailinglist is already linked to my osm account email, 
given that you only sign up once for 10 years, such a big change to gain one 
click to sign up is absurd compared to the fragmentation of discussions this 
"too-early" proposal will cause"

Some people don't want to use their private email address for a public mailing 
list. This means they have to use an alias services or secondary email account 
solely for the purpose of this mailing list. So it is not a one click sign up 
for everybody.



14 nov. 2022 08:43 van marc_marc_at_mailo_com_xrkimi...@simplelogin.co:

>
> here is the logical error: no the forum does not attract a global audience, 
> it may one day, now it is in test, half of the things do not work and 
> therefore let us leave time to have a functional forum (including by email) 
> in stead of trying to an attempts of discussion where the current majority of 
> the participants are not, with an aim of satisfying those which do not 
> produce for the moment much content level proposal (because if it were the 
> case, the forum would be already very used for the discussion of the 
> proposals of these people).
>
>> with the new forum linked to your osm.org user account
>>
> empty argument, the mailinglist is already linked to my osm account email, 
> given that you only sign up once for 10 years, such a big change to gain one 
> click to sign up is absurd compared to the fragmentation of discussions this 
> "too-early" proposal will cause
>
>> doesn't require special software
>>
>
> mailing need a email client (including in a browser)
> forum need a browser (which probably needs to be recent, poorly usable on 
> phone, unusable in command line, difficult to interface if you want to make 
> personalized notifications, etc)
> accessibility is certainly not in favour of the forums. (the blind person on 
> the osm-fr mailing list was using email with his braille reader and not a 
> forum)
>
>> pick a winner if and when this occurs.
>>
>
> This is a win-lose vision, whereas by giving the forum time to mature, there 
> could be a merger of the 2 which would be win-win (and would render the 
> current proposal useless as the same content would be accessible both by 
> email and by a web interface, with unified instead
> of fragmented discussions).
> We can see it with the osm-fr experience: the immature forum has split the 
> community, far from federating
>
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Thanks for the reminder. I indeed forgot to update the title after i changed 
the proposal. Will do that soon.

> But before we get that far, I recommend that the proposal's title be adjusted 
> slightly. The current title implies that discussions would start "moving" to 
> the new forums, which implies a loss of activity here. That's no longer on 
> the table, so "Announce proposals to the new forum" would suffice.
>
> -- 
> m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
>
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

I did actually do something with the feedback. Quite some people advised to 
require posting on both platforms. The proposal now requires that. 

However, the first vote did show that quite some people actually support 
including the forum in the proposal process. There are quite some people 
discouraged by the mailing list requirement. These proposals should be 
community proposals but they hardly are if people do no feel confident enough 
to start a proposal or to participate because of the communication platform. 
That is why I made it possible to let others post on the other platform on your 
behalf. 

Same is also the other way around. If you really dislike the forum, then ask 
somebody else to post it there on your behalf. Both platforms are treated 
equally in the proposal this way.

My goal is not to "go on forcing it until it finally passes." but make sure 
that everybody can freely contribute in proposals which it is not the case now.

13 nov. 2022 20:24 van marc_marc_at_mailo_com_xrkimi...@simplelogin.co:

> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.
> More info on https://simplelogin.io/docs/getting-started/anti-phishing/
>  --
> Le 13.11.22 à 16:01, Cartographer10 via Tagging a écrit :
>
>> I didn't receive any feedback on my updated proposal. If you have any, 
>> please share it here
>>
>
> I have the impression that you have received a lot of it but you simply 
> refuse to listen to it and go on forcing it until it finally passes.
>
> To return to my main point: the new forum, when it is mature, will allow a 
> mailinglist-web interface merger.
> I don't see any advantage in making a proposal against mailing lists,
> a proposal should be for something
> especially proposing that the people outside the list should ask someone else 
> to post a thread for them which they will not participate in, seems to me to 
> be absurdly absurd advice!
> if your advice seems coherent, why not do the opposite?
> those who post on the list add a line "pleasee vincent crosspost
> to the forum ?
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

It has been discussed with the forum admin here: 
https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/moving-to-the-new-forum-for-proposals-and-voting/2940/70?u=cartographer10

He recommends to first start in the tagging sub community. If the volumes get 
really high, we can request a subcommunity. You can also request this community 
now if you can get enough people to moderate it.

In the mean time, each announcement topic should get the tag "wiki-proposal" 
(listed in the proposed template). People can follow that tag (see proposal for 
a tutorial) and get a notification about new posts with that tag. That way they 
don't have to follow the entire tagging sub community.

Regards,
Vincent


13 nov. 2022 19:17 van zelonewolf_at_gmail_com_drz...@simplelogin.co:

>
> This email failed anti-phishing checks when it was received by SimpleLogin, 
> be careful with its content.More info on > anti-phishing measure 
> <https://simplelogin.io/docs/getting-started/anti-phishing/>
>
> I support the idea that proposals be posted to both the mailing list and the 
> community forums.  Over time we can assess whether one or the other is better.
>
> One thing I think is missing is that I would like to see proposals posted to 
> a dedicated space in the forums that can be subscribed to, that way someone 
> can subscribe to new proposal announcements without having to wade through 
> general tagging discussions.  Has there been any thought to creating a 
> dedicated proposal space, or is there otherwise some functionality that would 
> allow someone to subscribe just to proposal announcements?
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 10:07 AM Cartographer10 via Tagging <> 
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
>
>> I didn't receive any feedback on my updated proposal. If you have any, 
>> please share it here. I hope that the current proposal will for everybody.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> 6 nov. 2022 09:03 van >> 
>> tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co>> :
>>
>>> I have updated the proposal a few days back which I would like to receive 
>>> feedback on.
>>>
>>> I removed the transition period and required both the forum and the ML to 
>>> be notified of a new proposal or vote. One exception I propose is that the 
>>> proposal should be allowed to be made on behalf of the proposal author on 
>>> either the ML or the forum. 
>>>
>>> I hope that this change will satisfy both sides
>>>
>>> Vincent
>>>
>>>
>>> 29 okt. 2022 09:34 van >>> 
>>> tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co>>> :
>>>
>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>>
>>>> Based on the feedback, I updated the proposal to start using the new forum 
>>>> for proposal announcements. 
>>>>
>>>> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Start_moving_proposal_announcements_to_the_new_forum>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Vincent
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>>  Tagging mailing list
>>  >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>>  >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

I didn't receive any feedback on my updated proposal. If you have any, please 
share it here. I hope that the current proposal will for everybody.

Kind regards,

Vincent


6 nov. 2022 09:03 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:

> I have updated the proposal a few days back which I would like to receive 
> feedback on.
>
> I removed the transition period and required both the forum and the ML to be 
> notified of a new proposal or vote. One exception I propose is that the 
> proposal should be allowed to be made on behalf of the proposal author on 
> either the ML or the forum. 
>
> I hope that this change will satisfy both sides
>
> Vincent
>
>
> 29 okt. 2022 09:34 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:
>
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> Based on the feedback, I updated the proposal to start using the new forum 
>> for proposal announcements. 
>>
>> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Start_moving_proposal_announcements_to_the_new_forum>>
>>   
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

I have updated the proposal a few days back which I would like to receive 
feedback on.

I removed the transition period and required both the forum and the ML to be 
notified of a new proposal or vote. One exception I propose is that the 
proposal should be allowed to be made on behalf of the proposal author on 
either the ML or the forum. 

I hope that this change will satisfy both sides
Vincent

29 okt. 2022 09:34 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:

> Hello everybody,
>
> Based on the feedback, I updated the proposal to start using the new forum 
> for proposal announcements. 
>
> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Start_moving_proposal_announcements_to_the_new_forum>
>   
>
> Kind regards,
> Vincent
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Hello Yves,

Yes, I saw that. I also described that forum announcements should be made in 
that new subcommunity.

The reason why I prefer following tags is that I only get notifications for new 
proposals and votes. If you follow the entire category, you get a notification 
for every new topic in that category. That is a choice for the user. Because 
this is about proposals, I chose for following tags. 

I will add a remark to the proposal that category following is also possible.
Regards,
Vincent



29 okt. 2022 10:09 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:

> Vincent,
> I do appreciate your effort with this  new proposal.
> Are you aware that this week a new  category "> Tagging general 
> discussion <https://community.openstreetmap.org/c/general/tagging/70>> "  
>   has been created on > https://community.openstreetmap.org>  ?
> It's probablybetter to follow this category than suscribing to tags 
> (to-date)wiki, wiki-proposal, rfc, vote, proposal, ...
> Regards,
> Yves
>
>
> On 29.10.22 09:34, Cartographer10 via  Tagging wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> Based on the feedback, I updated the proposal tostart using the new 
>> forum for proposal announcements. 
>>
>> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talkpage.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Start_moving_proposal_announcements_to_the_new_forum>>
>>   
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Vincent
>>
>> ___Tagging mailing list>> 
>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>
>
>
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Hello everybody,

Based on the feedback, I updated the proposal to start using the new forum for 
proposal announcements. 

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Start_moving_proposal_announcements_to_the_new_forum
 

Kind regards,
Vincent___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] "Feature Proposal - Rejected - Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the mailing list

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Hello everybody,

With 64% who approve, the proposal "Require proposal announcements to be made 
on the new forum instead of the mailing list" has been rejected because the 75% 
threshold is not achieved.

Thanks to everybody who participated and voted. Because a majority voted for, I 
will adjust the proposal in a way that hopefully satisfies enough people.  The 
vote clearly shows that a change is needed the way proposals are announced 
while still respecting people their preference for the platform.

Kind regards,
Vincent___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the mailing list

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Hello everybody,

Voting has started for "Require proposal announcements to be made on the new 
forum instead of the mailing list."

Please, read the proposal carefully, since the first announcement, things have 
changed.
 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Require_proposal_announcements_to_be_made_on_the_new_forum_instead_of_the_mailing_list
Kind regards,

Vincent
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the mailing list

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

I have made changes to the proposal. 

I tried to clarify some things because the proposal is smaller then it seemed 
at first. I don't force people to discuss on the forum, nor does the current 
proposal process require discussion on the mailing list. The recommended 
discussion place is and stays the wiki's talk page. I only change the medium 
where you have to announce a RFC or vote. 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Require_proposal_announcements_to_be_made_on_the_new_forum_instead_of_the_mailing_list
 .

Greetings,
Vincent


24 sep. 2022 09:34 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:

> Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the 
> mailing list
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Require_proposal_announcements_to_be_made_on_the_new_forum_instead_of_the_mailing_list
>
> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Vincent
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the mailing list

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

1 and 2) yes. Select a tag, for example: 
https://community.openstreetmap.org/tag/tagging and click the bell icon. There 
you have several options about the intensity of notifications. You can for 
example follow everything, topics and comments. You can for example get a 
notification about new topics. You can then follow the topics individually you 
would like to follow. And there are more options so I would say choice enough.

3) Not really as far as I know. You could setup an email rule to filter these 
RFC and votes out. While I understand that you have a certain system to keep 
track of the mailing list, you can't except a new system to be the exact same 
as the old system. With 1 and 2, you can come quite close to what I think would 
be a workable situation. Every system has their pros and cons.

Greetings,
Vincent




24 sep. 2022 21:44 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:

> Can I get email notifications
> - about new topics in particular tag,
> - without getting other email notifications
> - with notifications directed to specific email, not one used for OSM 
> registartion
> ?
>
> Sep 24, 2022, 20:42 by tagging@openstreetmap.org:
>
>> From your settings, you can suscribe to  notiifcations about a 
>> particular tag, here this would be  'tagging'.
>> A 'Tagging' category (that you can also  suscribe too) could  be 
>> requested to the admins.
>>
>> Yves
>>
>> On 24.09.22 20:04, Mateusz Konieczny  via Tagging wrote:
>>
>>> My question was about getting notifications of new topics -
>>> to avoid missing RFC/vote.
>>>
>>> Right now it is working for me and I am unwillingto lose it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sep 24, 2022, 19:48 by >>> y...@mailbox.org>>> :
>>>
 There is a 'follow' drop down at the end of a topic.
 Yves 

 Le 24 septembre 2022 19:19:17 GMT+02:00, MateuszKonieczny via 
 Tagging   
   aécrit :

> How can I do "There you can select to get emails"?
>
> Is it about 
> "Email me when I am quoted, replied to, my  @username is 
> mentioned,
> or when there is new activity in my watched  categories, tags 
> or topics"
> option in account settings?
>
> Because that seems more spammy than tagging  mailing list.
>
> What worse, I cannot assign a separate email  account from
> email assigned to my OSM account 
> (I have a separate account just for mailing  lists due to 
> volume)
>
> I see there "Email can be updated from  authentication 
> provider."
> without option to set a different one for  Discourse 
> notifications.
>
> Sep 24, 2022, 14:32 by > tagging@openstreetmap.org> :
>
>> Yes, if you click on a tag, you see all topics withthat 
>> tag. On the top right, you see a bell icon. Thereyou can 
>> select to get emails.
>>
>> That is why I proposed to use the tag"wiki-proposal" on 
>> all proposals (RFC) and votes. 
>>
>> Additionally, you can get an RSS feed.Click on a tag and 
>> add .rss to the website URL like: 
>> https://community.openstreetmap.org/tag/tagging.rss
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> 24 sep. 2022 10:51 van >> 
>> tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co>> :
>>
>>> (1)
>>> Is there a way to subscribe somehow to  get 
>>> notifications via email, without getting
>>> notified about for example postings in  talk-de 
>>> subforum?
>>>
>>> "Using simple rss or email  notifications, people can 
>>> subscribe to new proposals
>>> on the community." is mentioned but it  is not clear 
>>> how it can be done
>>>
>>> Sep 24, 2022, 09:34 by >>> tagging@openstreetmap.org>>> :
>>>
 Require proposal announcements to be made on the
 new forum instead of the mailing list

 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Require_proposal_announcements_to_be_made_on_the_new_forum_instead_of_the_mailing_list

 Please discuss this proposal on itsWiki Talk page.

 Greetings,

 Vincent

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___Tagging mailing list>>> 
>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org>>> 
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the mailing list

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Yes, if you click on a tag, you see all topics with that tag. On the top right, 
you see a bell icon. There you can select to get emails.

That is why I proposed to use the tag "wiki-proposal" on all proposals (RFC) 
and votes. 
Additionally, you can get an RSS feed. Click on a tag and add .rss to the 
website URL like: 
https://community.openstreetmap.org/tag/tagging.rss

Greetings,
Vincent



24 sep. 2022 10:51 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:

> (1)
> Is there a way to subscribe somehow to get notifications via email, without 
> getting
> notified about for example postings in talk-de subforum?
>
> "Using simple rss or email notifications, people can subscribe to new 
> proposals
> on the community." is mentioned but it is not clear how it can be done
>
> Sep 24, 2022, 09:34 by tagging@openstreetmap.org:
>
>> Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the 
>> mailing list
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Require_proposal_announcements_to_be_made_on_the_new_forum_instead_of_the_mailing_list
>>
>> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Vincent
>>
>
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Move proposal voting from wiki to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Thanks for the feedback, good points.

1) That people don't reply to a post doesn't mean they don't have an opinion. 
The new forum for example allows to give emoticon reactions. This means that 
people don't need to comment but a simple thumps up or down is enough to 
express their opinion. Making the voting more accessible means that even the 
silent people have a change to participate in this community vote.

2) That poll was not made public. On a public vote you see the usernames below 
the different options.

3) If you see who voted for what, you can also see who commented. Besides, by 
using thumps up, users can agree with other people their reactions instead of 
replying with the same comment or "Same reasoning as user xx"

4) That is a valid point. I don't have a clear answer to that right now.

Greetings,

Vincent



24 sep. 2022 10:47 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co:

> 1) "The most popular vote on OSM wiki had about 130 votes. 
> This is really low considering the amount of mappers present in the 
> OpenStreetMap community"
>
> how many people commented/voted on the most popular thread on 
> OpenStreetMap community forum?
>
> 2) > https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/votes-on-discourse/508
> how can I see who voted for what?
>
> 3) > https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/votes-on-discourse/508
> strongly encourages voting without comment, further moving it
> from commenting with feedback to just a pure vote
>
> Is there a mode that requires and records comments from "no" votes?
>
> 4) It divorces proposal content and vote making more likely that
> people will vote without even looking at proposal
>
> 5) Yes, it is nicer than OSM wiki interface
>
> Sep 24, 2022, 09:37 by tagging@openstreetmap.org:
>
>> Move proposal voting from wiki to the new forum
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Move_proposal_voting_from_wiki_to_the_new_forum
>>
>> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Vincent
>>
>
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Move proposal voting from wiki to the new forum

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Move proposal voting from wiki to the new forum 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Move_proposal_voting_from_wiki_to_the_new_forum

 Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

Greetings,

Vincent
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the mailing list

[Cartographer10 via Tagging]

Require proposal announcements to be made on the new forum instead of the 
mailing list

 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Require_proposal_announcements_to_be_made_on_the_new_forum_instead_of_the_mailing_list

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

Greetings,

Vincent
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging