Re: [Tagging] landuse:illegal and illegal:yes/no
On Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:11:52 +0100 Peter Gervai g...@grin.hu wrote: On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 13:52, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 10:00 PM, grin g...@grin.hu wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/illegal 1) illegal is not really a category of things. It's an attribute, Yes it is. If proposing an attribute should have a different form, please advise. and its meaning varies - here it seems to primarily convey a sense of informal. For example, in most places, dumping rubbish *anywhere* is illegal. An illegal rubbish dump is really just an informal rubbish dump - and it's as illegal as anywhere else. But is it not anywhere else. It is not intended to signify potential objects but real, existing ones. If you mean you have to label every other illegal rubbish dump as illegal, then yes. :-) The proposal does not intend to advise of recording every illegal objects around but make it _possible_ to label them _if_ someone intends to map them. Do we really need all this information on a map? Is this something which belongs in a separate place and can be displayed as an overlay? Your need to make these tags is from your culture and not in mine, so we don't see any benefit to the world-wide map. Many things are illegal at the start Soweto started as illegal dwelling places forming a slum and is now a robust township - it is part of evolution of places outside Europe, particularly in developing nations, and marking them illegal would be culturally wrong. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (Key:designation)
On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 11:51:22 -0800 (PST) Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Markus Lindholm wrote: If this tag designation is about formal status in the UK It isn't. It's about formal status, full stop. You could just as easily use it to record that a European waterway is UNECE Class Vb. Richard Well 'designation' isn't a good word for showing the formal status of something. I agree that it is a correct word, but it is a poor choice in a multilingual project. There are competing keys with similar meanings, which are distinct and also overlap. There is a key referring to 'what is on a sign' and a key referring to 'what is in the statute book', both of them based on designat*. I find them quite confusing, despite a very large number of years of using English, and for those with English as an additional language to their native one, it will be even more difficult. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (Key:designation)
On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 20:47:04 + Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com wrote: If there's an appropriate majority after 2 weeks, I'll move it to approved. Otherwise we'll just carry on waiting for a better idea (it might be a long wait). Appropriate majority on the wiki of how many votes? With the tagging numbers being in their thousands, how will you decide on an appropriate number? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag pipestems (shared driveways)
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:52:39 -0500 Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com wrote: How do we differentiate between driveways and pipestems? Pipestems are common in planned residential developments (at least in the US), where a number of houses are located off a pipestem, each with their own driveways. A right-of-way in australia - the right of way is restricted to the owners and guests I live on one, and we chose highway=service for it. I'm not sure why you need to differentiate between this and a driveway, but I think the driveway is mistagged if marked highway=service. Do you mark the driveways access=private? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag pipestems (shared driveways)
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:04:23 -0800 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: I tag it highway=service + access=private (usually with evidence from a posted sign at the intersection with the public road), I'd favour access=permissive rather than private. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag pipestems (shared driveways)
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:04:23 -0800 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: The standard for driveways is in fact highway=service service=driveway access=private. I don't feel the need to tag access=* on a driveway. It seems that, wherever I draw a driveway, it's access is the same as the property to which it leads, by definition. A standard residential house's driveway (in the US) is on the private property of the homeowner. A driveway leading to a park is usually on the park property and any restrictions are usually posted at/near it's junction with the road, said restrictions applying to the park, not just the driveway. access= ?? is exactly why I feel that highway=service is the wrong thing for a driveway. It does not inherit the access defaults of the highway=service. I was going to describe the defaults of my driveway differently to your way, but the conclusion is the same - the access rights are different. If you wish to map highway=service service=driveway then I would still have hgv (literally, in my case) using the driveway with a standard router. My property adjoins an industrial complex. heavy goods vehicles (up to B-doubles in this case) are not wanted on the service road to the 2 houses and the office area, but have a more suitable entrance with access to a turning area. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] airport vs. aerodrome
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:24:17 -0600 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: Why not map the airports in greater detail? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=35.15526lon=-97.47207zoom=16layers=M is an example of a municipal airport more completely mapped. Of course that would be wonderful but there was an import of airports which has placed about 500 remote airstrips on the australian sector of the map, all marked as airport which is quite untrue. There isn't suitable aerial imagery to copy and trace and it is very difficult to decide what to just eliminate and what to try and place more accurately - because a lot of those i have been able to locate are several kilometres away from home ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] airport vs. aerodrome
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:13:53 +1100 David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: One easy way to split airports is into those with RPT services and those with only GA services. Most people not involved in aviation will only care about RPT airports. AFAIK, the use of RPT/GA is fairly universal with a clearly defined meaning. please explain your acronyms. I do know GA in this example but not RPT and of course to me GA firstly means something else altogether ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] What exactly is a preserved railway?
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:33:59 -0500 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: The latter may be track that looks fine but isn't connected to the rest of the system and is thus out of service. Connection to the rest of the system isn't a good means of decision A famous line from Normanton to Croydon connects to nothing else but still runs for freight and tourists http://thegulflander.com.au/history/overview/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Counterflow Lanes
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:06:57 +0200 Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: Fortunately there aren't too many reversible lanes in most cities. Used a lot in Sydney to manage rush hour traffic I haven't lived there for 30 years so I don't know the current extent of the practice, but the Harbour Bridge which was 8 lanes had a minimum of two going against peak traffic flow max of 6 going with peak traffic flow and in quiet times 4 lanes each way. This means that a large number of feeder routes change direction I guess we might still have some Sydney-resident mappers left who can clarify how they have marked this. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging long roads
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:46:38 +0100 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com wrote: I mean, if the relation says name=Foo and the way says name=Bar, what should a consumer do? We are using relations to map long highways, which in Australia customarily have names, which are well known. The route numbers are less well known. When a highway goes through a town, the streets it uses still have individual names eg Railway Street, Main Street. So it is quite normal for the relation to have name=Foo and the way have name=Baa. Martin thinks that For the name tag I would asume that the way is more probably correct then the relation, because relations are usually made for ways with the same ref, while the name might change along the road and I would asume that who made the relation maybe overlooked the differing name. but this is now a rendering problem, as both names are correct. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Draft - Vegetarian/Vegan
On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:47:31 + j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: True. My understanding is that most Hindus don't eat meat, but they do consume milk and other dairy products. We have had Hindu believers work with us for years one strict who does not eat when it looks like egg eg quiche but does eat egg when invisible eg cake the remainder of her family do eat meat but this usually means chicken and fish - nothing mammalian. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Open cut mining
I'm tracing a big open cast mine which has pit; tailings dump; ore dump; processing plant to concentrate ore; water supply; container loading facility for concentrate (goes in smallish containers by road to a rail siding) I've got a major shortage of tags and don't have anyone nearby to ask about suitable tags Then there is a small residential area and an airstrip Would people make this lot into a site_relation? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Open cut mining
On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 14:04:36 +0100 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/2/5 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: I'm tracing a big open cast mine which has pit; tailings dump; ore dump; processing plant to concentrate ore; water supply; container loading facility for concentrate (goes in smallish containers by road to a rail siding) I've got a major shortage of tags and don't have anyone nearby to ask about suitable tags Then there is a small residential area and an airstrip Would people make this lot into a site_relation? not sure about the relation (multipolygon could maybe do as well). I guess there is no tags for the single parts yet (ore dump, ...), so a proposal would be nice to have more detailed minery-mapping. Maybe you could make a big polygon (or multipolygon) around everything, giving that the name of the site and some tags to mark it (like landuse=open_cast_mining / or maybe quarry), and then tag the individual parts with their actual details. Would you consider the residential area and the airstrip part of the mining site? cheers, Martin the residential village and the airstrip are part of the mining site from the social and economic points of view - single owner, single purpose the 132km of haul road also belongs in the economic view of the mining site, but would not be appropriate in a polygon, but could be added to a relation, which was why I was suggesting relation ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] by_appointment
On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 08:31:57 -0500 Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: We've not used any indication that an appointment is required for tags like amenity=doctors. Can we just leave that be as it seems to have been presumed opening_hours:by_appointment=yes On exactly this point, we have opening hours. During that time you can walk in, obtain paperwork, see the reception staff. Within those opening hours we have appointments to see doctors, nurses, other professionals within the building. After hours we have opening by arrangement. This comes into the too complicated to put on the map stuff Stick to opening_hours=by_appointment or opening_hours=by_arrangement, phone=123456 and any complicated stuff should have an external reference. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Open cut mining
On Sat, 5 Feb 2011 14:54:30 -0800 Daniel Sabo daniels...@gmail.com wrote: My inclination on the mine facilities would be: The actual pit surroundings are landuse=quarry, the proccessing facilities are landuse=industrial + individual buildings. Do the buildings have names beyond their purpose? If not just naming them is probably sufficient. I don't know about building names. I've viewed a video site tour and have names like Stockpile Ball Mill Tailings Dam etc. I will be able to ask someone who is there at present - but in a few weeks when they are on a break, so I would use the names as presented in the video where I can identify the features. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] historic tagging, obelisks
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 14:58:44 +0100 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Definitely historic=obelisk, I think. It doesn't really matter if it's *old*, it's still *historical*. not all of them. A Las Vegas Obelisk is hardly to be called historical. historical=fake :D ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] historic tagging, obelisks
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 15:39:22 +0100 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: think about the Eiffel tower in Paris. It is (IMHO) clearly a monument, but it was originally built as a temporal structure for the world fair. I won't be a monument according to the definition given above. I see people classifying the Eiffel Tower as a monument on the web, but in the branch of English I use, it isn't a monument, for the reasons you give above. Calling the Eiffel Tower a monument is an example of how English changes. And people here are trying to capture English terms for things. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Proposed Feature - 2nd RFC - Public Transport
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:07:43 +0100 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: IMHO the definition could be: A station is a public transport facility where vehicles regularly stop to load or unload passengers, which is bigger than a pair of bus stops or tram stops. (even if an aerialway-station might be smaller). To be even more clear it could be: A station is a public transport facility where vehicles regularly stop to load or unload passengers, which in the case of buses or trams is bigger than a pair of bus stops or tram stops. I'm used to a station offering more than just load and unload eg ticket sales timetables available one or more human workers present (becoming less prevalent) associated kiosk are any of these things within what other cultures would expect at a station - to help distinguish it from a couple of bus stops?? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging world heritage (UNESCO) and other protected areas/features
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:00:25 +0100 Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com wrote: The page suggests to use abbreviations as values, which is not according to our general tagging rules (and IMHO pointless, why not use the full word and get a more understandable mapping?). But there are some useful ideas for subtags on the page. Because a monument can be registered by the UNESCO, the French Monuments Historiques and others, and may have several refs. Because writing ref:monuments historiques et sites is quite tidyous Because in France, on boundaries, we use the tag 'ref:INSEE' (for Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques) UNESCO is an abbreviation too ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - winter_road/ice_road
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:22:41 +0300 Gleb Smirnoff gleb...@glebius.int.ru wrote: After a lot of discussions, majority of Russian mappers decided to ignore the tracktype/trackgrade tags for now. The road condition is very dependant on weather and ones chances to drive it strongly depend on vehicle that is going to be used. australian mappers also ignore track type as it is too variable with a variety of conditions ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Towing service?
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:39:18 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote this before I realized there were other replies on this topic. Based on them, it seems the closest fit is office=towing, since that's what such a place is primarily used for - accounting, answering the phone, etc. What was wrong with landuse=depot, they have to park the tow trucks somewhere just like buses need to be parked at a depot when not in use. probably need both, because you are describing 2 different things ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aqueducts?
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:18:12 +1100 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: How is one supposed to tag an irrigation channel? as I live in an irrigation area, with thousands of channels and drains, I put it in the 'too hard' basket and have mapped the main canals only ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Baby care shop
On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 13:02:35 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Apart from research facilities using baby stem cells, what products are made from babies? :) after a suitable time lapse, more babies ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Draft - Depot
On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:27:03 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: An agricultural school may have fields, orchards, cattle yards barns etc in the school grounds. Should this landuse be a school or a farm, or both? I'd be tempted to say just education myself, but I could see it going both ways. In this case I'd be tempted to tag it in a similar manner as an agricultural research area, or perhaps come up with a new tag, since they're teaching agriculture rather than focusing on commercial activities associated with agriculture. Certainly an agricultural school has a lot of this, but both normal high schools in our town have ag plots and grow veges, sheep and stuff. Those I made educational landuse. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:04:27 +0100 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 03.01.2011 02:59, schrieb Paul Norman: I've set up a proposal for sluice_gates, which are typically found on small waterways in agricultural areas at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/sluice_gate What's the difference to waterway=weir? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Dweir Regards, ULFL a weir is much bigger, and a sluice gate may be a sub part of a weir http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=17790 is Hay Weir on the Murrumbidgee, with the gates raised completely for free flow ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 20:37:10 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 January 2011 20:04, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: What's the difference to waterway=weir? A lot of weirs I've seen don't have any kind of gates, they just semi-dam a river to provide a water supply for nearby towns, the water freely flows over the top of the weir. like this http://museumvictoria.museum/collections/items/766657/negative-weir-bridge-across-the-murray-river-mildura-victoria-circa-1925 to check the list from their archives would provide a good idea of the range of structures involved http://museumvictoria.museum/collections/tags/weirs?t=Imagesize=50 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 12:33:18 -0800 Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: All the sluice gates I've seen are on the scale of 1m in opening size. A quick google image search also seems to only turn up small gates. I suppose there could be some large gates out there, so the proposal might need to include ways or even areas. If you check this article http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/sightseers-flood-to-spilling-dam/story-e6frg6nf-1225936851387 you will find the following synonyms used floodgate spillway gate spillgate sluice gate and here is the official picture of Wivenhoe Dam http://www.seqwater.com.au/public/sites/default/files/userfiles/image/dams/wivenhoe_spillway.jpg and the official picture of Somerset Dam http://www.seqwater.com.au/public/sites/default/files/userfiles/image/dams/somerset_dam2.jpg here, in irrigated agriculture the small things are called pipe ends and headwalls I don't think either of these terms are suitable. http://www.colyconcrete.com.au/images/content-images/altin-headwall-steeldoor-2.jpg http://www.colyconcrete.com.au/images/content-images/altin-headwall-steeldoor-1.jpg http://www.colyconcrete.com.au/images/content-images/altin-headwall-stepped-2.jpg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 15:23:34 + Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Balranald Weir out of the water http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=17253 Although it's hard to decipher what's happening in the second photo' , I would describe the movable parts as sluice gates not weirs. When the flood is over I'll take a chance to photograph the weir in place. It is a weir, intended to regulate water flow. it does not have sluice gates The information sign onsite says Structure: A concrete and steel weir with a crest length of 40 metres incorporating removable stop panels and trestles which can be lowered during floods. http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=17250 It also contains a Deelder Fish Lock http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=17252 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - sluice_gate
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:28:06 +0100 yvecai yve...@gmail.com wrote: Let's take it on the opposite, we have devices to control water, sort of 'dams'. * Water can go above, under, through, or between gates * Can be fixed, moving, removable * Can be nodes, ways, or polygons I'm no expert in english, but somebody here could end up with a set of english word that would fit? just add a lock for boats and a lock for fish and we'll be almost done ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] designated bike lane
On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 10:36:54 -0500 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: If part of the goal is advocacy for bike safety, then I think it makes sense to find a cycling organization, like http://www.bikeleague.org/ and to find out what their standards are for cycle lane safety, and then to have a scheme to represent conformance (but not tie that to is it a bike lane). agreed In Australia there is a minimum width for a bike lane, which does not include the concrete guttering. Anything less than this is not a bike lane, whether it has a sign or not. The local-sign-erecting-authority should also have a warning sign for the bridge where the allocated space is just too small. Bike_lane=undernourished and bike_lane=death_trap are what spring to mind. I'd ride in the car lane or use another street ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Airport subtypes
A recent import has highlighted the lack of suitable subtypes of airport in the tagging schema. There are some pages of lapsed concepts on the wiki of different airport subtypes A scan through the wikipedia gives me international airport domestic airport regional airport airstrip or airfield Can we put together some ideas and reactivate one of the lapsed proposals to improve this section of tagging? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] geology taggin?
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:11:18 +0100 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: It is accepting that semantically different things can reside under the same key and that this doesn't cause any problems - except for people like you that seem to think that a systematic approach is a value in itself. There are good reason for keeping semantically different things in different groups. 1. the new mapper. I remember trying to work out, with multiple wiki pages open, how something was described, and then tagging it. It took forever, and then the editors improved their presets and I remembered more of them. I challenge you to explain to a new mapper why cafe is under amenity and bakery is under shop, when they live in an area where bakeries include cafes as their normal state. 2. finding if someone has already described this item or not When items in the real world haven't got an OSM tag, how do I find the comprehensive list of features and search it? So there are shops that sell building bricks. Outdoor display area, with brick walls to show the bricks for sale, and a little office for the salesperson. Shop? Amenity? Light industrial? Office? If we don't tag with rational schemes we will have multiple duplicate tags simply because people can't find the place where the tag was placed in the schema. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] geology taggin?
On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:52:07 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I've already been tagging beaches and other areas as surface=sand, how does using landcover make this any better? Because, if you'd ever been to PommieLand (UK for the rest of youse) you would know that beaches aren't all sand. Some very famous ones are made of rounded rocks, which they call pebbles. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Changing tags...
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:38:07 + Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/11/2010 16:03, John Smith wrote: Erm shouldn't the data be fixed to match the documentation, rather than changing the documentation in this instance? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Map_Features:amenityoldid=557169diff=next It was in Map Features as amenity=doctors for years, until it was changed a couple of months back: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Map_Features:amenitydiff=nextoldid=538026 amenity=doctors is used by the JOSM and Potlatch presets. And amenity=doctor is only a proposal, so its not exactly a documented tag anyway. when it was far less common I asked about this tag, because the pattern was to use butcher, baker, candlestickmaker and doctor was usurped by doctors and should that be only for multiple doctors or is it a contraction of doctor's surgery? bring on healthcare. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] I started a draft on a new main key culture
On Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:33:39 +0100 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: lists of things in towns don't understand this. Do you propose a new key town? absolutely not but a useful list of what someone might find in a town public buildings toilets parks bbq playground residential areas schools shops traffic lights ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - art gallery
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 10:22:50 +0100 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: As you can see from my voting comment, I have other objections as well: gallery has a lot of different meanings, in architecture alone there is 4 and more, in mining, etc. press gallery peanut gallery and a use in the theatre where you get heckled from the gallery too ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] I started a draft on a new main key culture
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:43:28 -0500 Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: It is true that they are at least partly a subgroup of amenity, which is by general judgement quite overcrowded at the moment. Overcrowded? Less than 0.1% of possible values are taken. How about containing too many to search effectively? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] I started a draft on a new main key culture
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 19:18:33 + Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote: don't know. It seems that the british art world is not very active on wikipedia then, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_gallery redirects to art_museum ;-) Ah, Wikipedia, that well known internationally agreed source of definitions for words ;-) I forgot that we need to slavishly follow anything we spot in Wikipedia or that other well-worn blind alley one's online dictionary of choice. One can edit Wikipedia if it doesn't suit - I've seen that used to solve an argument on osm already. As I wrote on the wiki, we have separate amenity values for bar, pub and nightclub instead of amenity=drinking_establishment; we have shop values for butcher, baker and grocer instead of a generic shop=food followed by a sub-tag to define the type of food. There is no rule that says, because art galleries are often considered a sort of museum, we must relegate art gallery to a sub-type of culture=museum. I don't have a problem with permanent art exhibitions being labelled as a type of museum. Indeed many museums concentrate on cultural artifacts. I'm thinking of one in Athens full of cultural artifacts from the height of the Athenian city state. We call it a museum, but it is an art gallery devoted to a particular time period, so the logic of the two terms overlaps considerably. an art gallery in English does not clearly distinguish between the shop where art is sold and the permanent exhibition. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] I started a draft on a new main key culture
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 16:13:52 -0500 Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Is is really obvious to everyone but me which of (archaeological_site, art_gallery, artwork, bar, bookstore, cafe, cinema, dance, garden, library, memorial, monument, museum, park, pub, sports_centre, stadium, theatre, theme_park, and zoo) are supposed to be culture and which are supposed to be some other key? no, it's not apparent. but the amenity space is still overcrowded and difficult to search perhaps a job for the wiki-fiddlers institute recategorise on the wiki only so that whether it's a shop, an amenity, a landuse a 'something' can appear in more than one list lists of things in buildings lists of things in towns lists of historic things ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] communal learning spaces / training areas
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 13:31:31 -0400 Eric Brelsford ebrelsf...@gmail.com wrote: For all of these spaces, the classes are short-term and informal. Part of me wants to tag them as informal training spaces (to avoid overloading amenity=school), but I'm not too keen on bloating amenity=*, either, by adding something like amenity=informal_training or amenity=informal_school. A logical method would be to make Key=education and then have variations documented there. Let's wait and see what other ideas are presented before formally suggesting such a concept. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] stop signs
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:32:14 +0200 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: I don't see any situation, where a stop sign is used as a stop sign (and not for decoration) without an intersection near to it. At a railway level crossing. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] new highway tag for small and informal footpaths; trail
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:31:40 +0200 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I am speaking of narrow (in all cases below 1 metre, I'd say less then 0.5 m actually, usually 20-30 cm). They have to be not planned, not maintained, ground surface: they are simply there because people (or animal) use them. that is a path. it is not a trail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Country names
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 08:31:08 +0200 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Am 15.10.2010 08:21, schrieb Stephen Hope: So the sign Rue Bouganville St would be name:en=Bouganville Street, name:fr=Rue Bouganville, but what would you put in name=? Exactly what's on the sign: Rue Bouganville St Peter That immediately violates the rule of not putting an abbreviation for a street name. However it is not Rue Bougainville Street either Rue Bougainville or Bougainville Street are alternate names. Which should have precedence is the question ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:43:36 +0200 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Am 13.10.2010 09:31, schrieb Matthias Meißer: For this proposal IMHO the users who removed the proposal should be notified and the author should be allowed to add his new feature to the map features page. He fullfilled all requirements with his proposal I contacted him and we're still in a very interesting discussion. His opinion is, that the map-features should list the *most common used* features and it's clear that with 500 uses, craft does not fall into this category. So I can accept this tag not being listed on map-features but findable via a the search. This is a definition problem of what should be on the map-features page. Peter If map features is restricted to most common used how will it ever enlarge to cover new tags which can't be advertised?? I don't agree with the logic expressed in Map features page oversize do not add any more Liz ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:06:44 +0200 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: I can follow this argumentation but it makes it hard to have two sets of rules to follow when creating tag-pages in the wiki. There are few rules regarding the wiki. I have not voted (because voting on the wiki is ridiculous) but whether I agree or disagree I would respect your work and leave it alone. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - social facility
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 02:10:20 +0200 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: really? You would tag a place where heroine-addicts go to consume their drugs healthcare? social_facility:for=drug_addicted Caffeine addicts have amenity=cafe ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Roundabout Priority
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:51:27 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: So, regular roundabouts (i.e., those that are common, with priority to the left) are tagged junction=roundabout, and non-standard right-hand-priority ones are circular ways without the roundabout tag. Wouldn't you just tag them both as junction=roundabout and do as Martin suggested with right of way tagging? Technically they are not roundabouts, but 'traffic circles'. And as that distinction is quite technical and not obvious to most people, I support right of way tagging. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:40:16 +0200 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: this might be a cultural difference, but IMHO craft is the mere opposite of industrial It's somewhere between hobby and industrial... It is not industrial, because it operates at a much smaller scale and there is less division of labour. It's cultural. You imagine industrial as big, and we don't. Specifically planning laws describe these areas as light industry. I see industry as a major Key and under that heavy industry (eg steel works) light industry (eg joinery) or under that workshop= plant= (major manufacturers) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 22:52:29 +0200 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/9/15 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: I would have put 'craft' under industrial, and then used 'trade' but craft is too far processed to consider a complete alternative. this might be a cultural difference, but IMHO craft is the mere opposite of industrial cheers, Martin I'm sure its cultural. Most of what has been listed under craft on the wiki are trades. Craft was appropriate English in the Middle Ages when Craft Guilds were formed. Good editors would hide all these keys, they might even be numerical in which case the underlying name wouldn't matter. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] trees and waterways
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:49:54 +0200 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: No, that's exactly the same as 'oneway=no' on two-ways roads. When the tag is not present, we assume that the road is two ways. That's it. If it's wrong, then fix it by adding the oneway tag. It is the same for waterways and the direction of the way. If it's wrong, then reverse the direction of the way with your prefered editor. We have similar conventions for the coastline, we don't have/need a tag saying which side is the land and which side is the water and nobody complains. +1, there is also other similar conventions like barrier=retaining_wall. This is detailing tags which have two parts to their meanings. Really this is a form of shorthand which is convenient for those who know the code, and not to those who don't comprehend the 'code'. What sort of a difference does this make to the computed use of the data? We can only make a decision on whether these conventions continue when we understand how it affects the data use. There are good arguments each way for the input of the data. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 14:19:00 + John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: I agree with Pierre-Alain. Whether or not a particular tree is worth noting is a subjective decision, and can be based upon its appearance, its location, what notable events may have occurred near it, etc. Yes, being the only tree for some distance can be a factor, but it isn't the only possible factor. A bot can't judge these other factors; it requires a human with local knowledge, and different people with the same local knowledge may have varying opinions about the notability of a particular tree. I have known very few notable trees. As a child there was one which was known as the place where Elizabeth I was sitting when she was told she was Queen. There was one in Western Queensland known as the birthplace of the Labour Party. They are very special places which need noting. Then there are single trees which make landmarks on a route. All other trees are normal (to my way of thinking about the world) and don't need any additional notes. They may even be standalone trees which are more than x metres from anything else. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] trees and waterways
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:45:04 -0400 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Pierre-Alain Dorange pdora...@mac.com wrote: ... Perhaps have you a proposition. But for my part, it seems natural to use the natural flow of the way has the natural flow of the river. It may be natural once one knows that you're supposed to represent the direction. But I've come across many waterways that were mapped without regard for the direction. Three examples, mapped by three different people: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/71760642 Eight Mile Canal: flows west into the St. Johns River http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/44644481 Canal L-406: flows south into Canal L-405 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/7044872 Venetian Canal: flows north into Lake Maitland (I believe) You could add rivers I have mapped to that list (Murray, Darling, Murrumbidgee, Lachlan) although I think the directions may have been edited. At places you would find that the rivers I did were made of segments which go in different directions because I had no care for the direction ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
