Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
It is my understanding that Britain also uses the "true statements that harm a reputation are libel", but that it is mainly used against the news media. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. On September 23, 2014 10:28:31 AM Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 2014-09-23 16:56 GMT+02:00 Mishari Muqbil : > Even if it's the truth, it's criminal libel if you state it as a > brothel. There's an interesting saying which you can Google that goes > "the greater the truth, the greater the libel". > Libel is defined as "false statement that harms the reputation of somebody/something". Are you serious that in Thailand they have something like "criminal libel" defined as "any statement that harms the reputation of somebody/something"? -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Looks like Amenity=soapland is more and more appealing. >< those libel laws... ouch. I thought the UK also had some pretty strict >libel laws too. On Sep 24, 2014, at 1:26 AM, Matthijs Melissen wrote: > On 23 Sep 2014 16:29, "Mateusz Konieczny" wrote: > > Are you serious that in Thailand they have something like "criminal libel" > > defined as > > "any statement that harms the reputation of somebody/something"? > > In the Netherlands, this is the case as well. It is, basically, a criminal > offence to harm someones honour unless doing so is in the public interest. > > http://www.wetboek-online.nl/wet/Sr/261.html > > > In fact, I have the same problem with tagging Gentlemen's Clubs in > > England. How do other mappers tag these? From the outside, it's often > > hard to decide whether they should be tagged as leisure=social_club > > (typically not...), amenity=stripclub, or amenity=brothel. In England, > > brothelkeeping is illegal, so tagging them as amenity=brothel without > > evidence might again be risky from a legal perspective. > > I still wonder how other mappers deal with this. > > -- Matthijs > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
On 23 Sep 2014 16:29, "Mateusz Konieczny" wrote: > Are you serious that in Thailand they have something like "criminal libel" defined as > "any statement that harms the reputation of somebody/something"? In the Netherlands, this is the case as well. It is, basically, a criminal offence to harm someones honour unless doing so is in the public interest. http://www.wetboek-online.nl/wet/Sr/261.html > In fact, I have the same problem with tagging Gentlemen's Clubs in > England. How do other mappers tag these? From the outside, it's often > hard to decide whether they should be tagged as leisure=social_club > (typically not...), amenity=stripclub, or amenity=brothel. In England, > brothelkeeping is illegal, so tagging them as amenity=brothel without > evidence might again be risky from a legal perspective. I still wonder how other mappers deal with this. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
2014-09-23 16:56 GMT+02:00 Mishari Muqbil : > Even if it's the truth, it's criminal libel if you state it as a > brothel. There's an interesting saying which you can Google that goes > "the greater the truth, the greater the libel". > Libel is defined as "false statement that harms the reputation of somebody/something". Are you serious that in Thailand they have something like "criminal libel" defined as "any statement that harms the reputation of somebody/something"? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Hi Mishari, 2014-09-23 16:56 GMT+02:00 Mishari Muqbil : > I had an interesting conversation with legal today. > I'm assuming "legal" is a department at your workplace. > Even if it's the truth, it's criminal libel if you state it as a > brothel. There's an interesting saying which you can Google that goes > That is too bad for you in Thailand. Makes me wonder what other facts you are prohibited from stating. The people who will be liable under the Computer Crimes Act are those > who enter the information, those who host and those who display the > information. So for example, website A shows a map containing a POI in > Thailand tagged as a brothel, a police report can be filed to have owner > of website A prosecuted. > I understand better why you are concerned then. In reality it makes you unable (/criminal) to map certain things because you are in Thailand. Even if these "parlours" were to be mapped as amenity=brothel on OSM, a Thai online map service could still show them as "soapland" on a map. One could perhaps also argue that you as a Thai user perhaps could tag these as amenity=brothel + brothel=soapland and not be libelous because you were using the "International OSM" definition of brothel and not the Thai version of brothel (which is unlawful and therefore does not exist)? If every online map service in Thailand is to be liable for everything that the map displays, to such a degree, it makes it very hard to use OSM data in Thailand. I've also been advised that Thailand is not the only country with this > legal concept and that as we should be mindful and cautious of this. > I am pretty sure that for most free countries this isn't much of an issue, at least not for the OSM user doing the tagging. Civil liberties isn't where Thailand does best... -- Guttorm Flatabø ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Mishari Muqbil wrote: > I've also been advised that Thailand is not the only country with this > legal concept and that as we should be mindful and cautious of this. But in OSM we map what's on the ground. Create a new tag like "amenity=brothel_even_if_it_is_not_legal_to_say_it_is_one" or "brothel=dont_tell_anyone" Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Hi, I had an interesting conversation with legal today. Even if it's the truth, it's criminal libel if you state it as a brothel. There's an interesting saying which you can Google that goes "the greater the truth, the greater the libel". The people who will be liable under the Computer Crimes Act are those who enter the information, those who host and those who display the information. So for example, website A shows a map containing a POI in Thailand tagged as a brothel, a police report can be filed to have owner of website A prosecuted. I've also been advised that Thailand is not the only country with this legal concept and that as we should be mindful and cautious of this. On 9/22/14 19:49, Guttorm Flatabø wrote: > > That being the case I'd say they really do qualify as amenity=brothel. > It doesn't really matter that they're not officially brothels, or don't > label themselves as such, that doesn't change the fact. Nor should you > be liable in any way for mapping facts. -- Best regards Mishari Muqbil Twitter: @mishari EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
On 22 September 2014 13:57, johnw wrote: > Yea, it's a brothel - but it is avery particular style of brothel in Asia to > get around the laws , and AFAIK has very different customs than what I > imagine a more european or australian brothel is. because of the type of > service that is expected, I don't believe it meshes well with what someone > going to the red light district in Amsterdam would be expecting from a > "brothel". I don't think brothels masking as massage parlours are a typical Asian thing. I did some Googling, and I found: http://www.massagewereld.com/en A chain of 'massage parlours' in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany http://www.paradisestudio.co.uk/ An English 'massage parlour' http://www.happyending.es/ 'Massages' in Spain The internet suggests the same concept exists in Norway, where prostitution is illegal. So it seems this kind of thing is quite widespread. I would prefer a tagging scheme that works worldwide, and I don't think the term 'soapland' would be understood in Europe. In fact, I have the same problem with tagging Gentlemen's Clubs in England. How do other mappers tag these? From the outside, it's often hard to decide whether they should be tagged as leisure=social_club (typically not...), amenity=stripclub, or amenity=brothel. In England, brothelkeeping is illegal, so tagging them as amenity=brothel without evidence might again be risky from a legal perspective. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Yea, it's a brothel - but it is avery particular style of brothel in Asia to get around the laws , and AFAIK has very different customs than what I imagine a more european or australian brothel is. because of the type of service that is expected, I don't believe it meshes well with what someone going to the red light district in Amsterdam would be expecting from a "brothel". Amenity is jam packed with stuff, so amenity=soapland seems reasonable, but is there an adult=* key? or a brothel=* subtag? Javbw On Sep 22, 2014, at 9:49 PM, Guttorm Flatabø wrote: > 2014-09-22 13:47 GMT+02:00 Mishari Muqbil : > I realise that it's my fault for not being very clear from the beginning. I > think as John mentions, amenity=soapland is about right. I do suspect that > the establishments in Thailand are based on the same concept as those which > exist in Japan. > > That being the case I'd say they really do qualify as amenity=brothel. It > doesn't really matter that they're not officially brothels, or don't label > themselves as such, that doesn't change the fact. Nor should you be liable in > any way for mapping facts. > > However, amenity=soapland would be more precise and give more information, > and there's also a decent Wikipedia page about it. I'd say it's really a sub > group/type of amenity=brothel though. > > -- > Guttorm > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
2014-09-22 13:47 GMT+02:00 Mishari Muqbil : > I realise that it's my fault for not being very clear from the beginning. > I think as John mentions, amenity=soapland is about right. I do suspect > that the establishments in Thailand are based on the same concept as those > which exist in Japan. > That being the case I'd say they really do qualify as amenity=brothel. It doesn't really matter that they're not officially brothels, or don't label themselves as such, that doesn't change the fact. Nor should you be liable in any way for mapping facts. However, amenity=soapland would be more precise and give more information, and there's also a decent Wikipedia page about it. I'd say it's really a sub group/type of amenity=brothel though. -- Guttorm ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Hi Dan, I realise that it's my fault for not being very clear from the beginning. I think as John mentions, amenity=soapland is about right. I do suspect that the establishments in Thailand are based on the same concept as those which exist in Japan. Should I create an entry in the wiki for this? On 9/22/14 14:05, Dan S wrote: > 2014-09-22 7:29 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss : > > On 21.09.2014 11:04, Dan S wrote: > >> > >> It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your > >> specific issue: > >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage > > > > please don't use shop=massage for this kind of places. > > > > I really don't want them to show up on a map next to Wat Pho massage just > > because the map creator does not take into account some additional tagging > > which says "yes, it's tagged as a massage, but this tag tells you it isn't". > > > > Additional tags can specify something further, but should not change the > > meaning in general. > > The original message said this kind of place "offers bathing + massage > services" plus the sexual stuff. My advice was based on that > description. You seem to be saying that these places _don't_ offer > massage services. I don't actually know which of these is true! > > Dan > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Best regards Mishari Muqbil EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
2014-09-22 7:29 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss : > On 21.09.2014 11:04, Dan S wrote: >> >> It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your >> specific issue: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage > > please don't use shop=massage for this kind of places. > > I really don't want them to show up on a map next to Wat Pho massage just > because the map creator does not take into account some additional tagging > which says "yes, it's tagged as a massage, but this tag tells you it isn't". > > Additional tags can specify something further, but should not change the > meaning in general. The original message said this kind of place "offers bathing + massage services" plus the sexual stuff. My advice was based on that description. You seem to be saying that these places _don't_ offer massage services. I don't actually know which of these is true! Dan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
On 21.09.2014 11:04, Dan S wrote: It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your specific issue: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage please don't use shop=massage for this kind of places. I really don't want them to show up on a map next to Wat Pho massage just because the map creator does not take into account some additional tagging which says "yes, it's tagged as a massage, but this tag tells you it isn't". Additional tags can specify something further, but should not change the meaning in general. Think of amenity=place_of_worship. They are all sort of religious place. If your map cares, it can distinguish between Buddhist, Christian or Muslim. But still it's a place of worship. Stephan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
The name tag can be whatever it is, but making a amenity=soapland might be what you are looking for. That way there is no confusion with massage places and clearly understood to be for adult services. Javbw. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 22, 2014, at 1:05 PM, Mishari Muqbil wrote: > > Hi, > > To avoid having the word "massage" throwing off the discussion, I'll > refer to it under it's legal name of "entertainment place". > > I'll go ahead with the restrictions then, but the other issue is the > specific legal classification that entertainment places fall under[1] as > opposed to a regular, much smaller place which offer massages and have > the same restrictions posted on the door. > > You need a specific license to operate a "entertainment place" which > makes it subject to zoning, taxes and other laws and an establishment > that operates under this legal definition and license should be tagged > accordingly. > > [1] > http://www.lawreform.go.th/lawreform/eng/index.php?option=com_homelawreformen&task=showtoc&lid=705&gid=6&eword=P&ename=Acts%20of%20Parliament&elawname=Public%20Entertainment%20Place%20Act,%20B.E.%202509%20%281966%29 > >> On 9/21/14 22:07, Dan S wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Well, that suggestion specifies access limits (i.e. only males age 21 >> or more), and if those are true facts and they're what you want to >> indicate, then go ahead. The access limits don't really tell you if >> something is soapy or not, but if you decide you only want to "imply" >> that and not to state it explicitly, your approach sounds OK to me. >> >> However, there's NO reason to use amenity=massage_parlour when >> shop=massage already exists. Please use it. You said you want to avoid >> confusion between soapy and family-friendly, and your age-restriction >> works for that, no need to create a duplicate tag. >> >> Best >> Dan >> >> >> 2014-09-21 14:52 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : >>> Hi, >>> >>> I saw that, but I'm not convinced it's the right approach as what I'm >>> referring require a specific massage parlor license to operate as >>> opposed to a regular traditional massage establishment which is more >>> suited for shop=massage. I think it would be akin to saying a >>> convenience store and supermarket can all be tagged the same way. Also, >>> I'm not comfortable with using sexual as it could be libelous to state >>> that something illegal is taking place in these establishments (for >>> example, you won't do shop=convenience+marijuana=yes in most parts of >>> the world). >>> >>> How about something like a combination of: >>> amenity=massage_parlour >>> male=yes >>> female=no >>> min_age=21 >>> >>> This should be quite accurate. >>> On 21/9/14 16:04, Dan S wrote: Hi - It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your specific issue: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage Best Dan 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : > Hi, > > Thailand has these places called "entertainment complexes"[1] that > offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is > that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag > them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not > allowed[2]. > > I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the > Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken > for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world. > Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps > leisure=soapy_massage? :) > > One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as > landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia > http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La > Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and > Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw > > Any thoughts? > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat > [2] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act > [3] > http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94 > -- > Best regards > Mishari Muqbil > EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >>> ___ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >>
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Hi, To avoid having the word "massage" throwing off the discussion, I'll refer to it under it's legal name of "entertainment place". I'll go ahead with the restrictions then, but the other issue is the specific legal classification that entertainment places fall under[1] as opposed to a regular, much smaller place which offer massages and have the same restrictions posted on the door. You need a specific license to operate a "entertainment place" which makes it subject to zoning, taxes and other laws and an establishment that operates under this legal definition and license should be tagged accordingly. [1] http://www.lawreform.go.th/lawreform/eng/index.php?option=com_homelawreformen&task=showtoc&lid=705&gid=6&eword=P&ename=Acts%20of%20Parliament&elawname=Public%20Entertainment%20Place%20Act,%20B.E.%202509%20%281966%29 On 9/21/14 22:07, Dan S wrote: > Hi, > > Well, that suggestion specifies access limits (i.e. only males age 21 > or more), and if those are true facts and they're what you want to > indicate, then go ahead. The access limits don't really tell you if > something is soapy or not, but if you decide you only want to "imply" > that and not to state it explicitly, your approach sounds OK to me. > > However, there's NO reason to use amenity=massage_parlour when > shop=massage already exists. Please use it. You said you want to avoid > confusion between soapy and family-friendly, and your age-restriction > works for that, no need to create a duplicate tag. > > Best > Dan > > > 2014-09-21 14:52 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : >> Hi, >> >> I saw that, but I'm not convinced it's the right approach as what I'm >> referring require a specific massage parlor license to operate as >> opposed to a regular traditional massage establishment which is more >> suited for shop=massage. I think it would be akin to saying a >> convenience store and supermarket can all be tagged the same way. Also, >> I'm not comfortable with using sexual as it could be libelous to state >> that something illegal is taking place in these establishments (for >> example, you won't do shop=convenience+marijuana=yes in most parts of >> the world). >> >> How about something like a combination of: >> amenity=massage_parlour >> male=yes >> female=no >> min_age=21 >> >> This should be quite accurate. >> >> On 21/9/14 16:04, Dan S wrote: >>> Hi - >>> >>> It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your >>> specific issue: >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage >>> >>> Best >>> Dan >>> >>> 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : Hi, Thailand has these places called "entertainment complexes"[1] that offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2]. I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world. Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps leisure=soapy_massage? :) One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw Any thoughts? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act [3] http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94 -- Best regards Mishari Muqbil EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >>> ___ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Best regards Mishari Muqbil EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
The word you are looking for soapland. Japan has the same "give you a bath and then have naughty fun" places called soaplands. They are becoming rarer and rarer, but that is the term for them. Fits pretty well with the "soapy massage". Using massage is not right because they are more for adult entertainment or sex services than for massage. You would never go to them for sore muscles, but for adult interaction with the masseuse. (Like a strip club) or for services (like a brothel) Sent from my iPad > On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Dan S wrote: > > Hi - > > It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your > specific issue: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage > > Best > Dan > > 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : >> Hi, >> >> Thailand has these places called "entertainment complexes"[1] that >> offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is >> that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag >> them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2]. >> >> I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the >> Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken >> for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world. >> Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps >> leisure=soapy_massage? :) >> >> One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as >> landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia >> http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La >> Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and >> Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat >> [2] >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act >> [3] >> http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94 >> -- >> Best regards >> Mishari Muqbil >> EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Hi, Well, that suggestion specifies access limits (i.e. only males age 21 or more), and if those are true facts and they're what you want to indicate, then go ahead. The access limits don't really tell you if something is soapy or not, but if you decide you only want to "imply" that and not to state it explicitly, your approach sounds OK to me. However, there's NO reason to use amenity=massage_parlour when shop=massage already exists. Please use it. You said you want to avoid confusion between soapy and family-friendly, and your age-restriction works for that, no need to create a duplicate tag. Best Dan 2014-09-21 14:52 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : > Hi, > > I saw that, but I'm not convinced it's the right approach as what I'm > referring require a specific massage parlor license to operate as > opposed to a regular traditional massage establishment which is more > suited for shop=massage. I think it would be akin to saying a > convenience store and supermarket can all be tagged the same way. Also, > I'm not comfortable with using sexual as it could be libelous to state > that something illegal is taking place in these establishments (for > example, you won't do shop=convenience+marijuana=yes in most parts of > the world). > > How about something like a combination of: > amenity=massage_parlour > male=yes > female=no > min_age=21 > > This should be quite accurate. > > On 21/9/14 16:04, Dan S wrote: >> Hi - >> >> It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your >> specific issue: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage >> >> Best >> Dan >> >> 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thailand has these places called "entertainment complexes"[1] that >>> offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is >>> that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag >>> them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2]. >>> >>> I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the >>> Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken >>> for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world. >>> Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps >>> leisure=soapy_massage? :) >>> >>> One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as >>> landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia >>> http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La >>> Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and >>> Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw >>> >>> Any thoughts? >>> >>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat >>> [2] >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act >>> [3] >>> http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94 >>> -- >>> Best regards >>> Mishari Muqbil >>> EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 >>> >>> ___ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Hi, I saw that, but I'm not convinced it's the right approach as what I'm referring require a specific massage parlor license to operate as opposed to a regular traditional massage establishment which is more suited for shop=massage. I think it would be akin to saying a convenience store and supermarket can all be tagged the same way. Also, I'm not comfortable with using sexual as it could be libelous to state that something illegal is taking place in these establishments (for example, you won't do shop=convenience+marijuana=yes in most parts of the world). How about something like a combination of: amenity=massage_parlour male=yes female=no min_age=21 This should be quite accurate. On 21/9/14 16:04, Dan S wrote: > Hi - > > It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your > specific issue: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage > > Best > Dan > > 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : >> Hi, >> >> Thailand has these places called "entertainment complexes"[1] that >> offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is >> that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag >> them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2]. >> >> I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the >> Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken >> for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world. >> Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps >> leisure=soapy_massage? :) >> >> One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as >> landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia >> http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La >> Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and >> Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat >> [2] >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act >> [3] >> http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94 >> -- >> Best regards >> Mishari Muqbil >> EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
@Dan S — Good answer. I was wondering how to tag such places myself. On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Dan S wrote: > Hi - > > It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your > specific issue: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage > > Best > Dan > > 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : > > Hi, > > > > Thailand has these places called "entertainment complexes"[1] that > > offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is > > that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag > > them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not > allowed[2]. > > > > I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the > > Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken > > for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world. > > Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps > > leisure=soapy_massage? :) > > > > One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as > > landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia > > http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La > > Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and > > Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat > > [2] > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act > > [3] > > > http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94 > > -- > > Best regards > > Mishari Muqbil > > EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 > > > > ___ > > Tagging mailing list > > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Hi - It looks like there's this tag, including a tag suggested for your specific issue: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmassage Best Dan 2014-09-21 4:23 GMT+01:00 Mishari Muqbil : > Hi, > > Thailand has these places called "entertainment complexes"[1] that > offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is > that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag > them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2]. > > I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the > Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken > for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world. > Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps > leisure=soapy_massage? :) > > One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as > landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia > http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La > Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and > Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw > > Any thoughts? > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat > [2] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act > [3] > http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94 > -- > Best regards > Mishari Muqbil > EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] (Soapy) Massage Parlour
Hi, Thailand has these places called "entertainment complexes"[1] that offers bathing + massage services and quite often the expectation is that there will be sexual services offered. However, I don't want to tag them as brothels as prostitution on the premises is legally not allowed[2]. I propose to tag this as leisure=massage_parlour since that's what the Thai English dictionary calls them[3] but I don't want it to be mistaken for more family friendly establishments in other parts of the world. Colloquially these places are called soapy massage so perhaps leisure=soapy_massage? :) One reason why they should be mapped is just how prominent they are as landmarks in general. For example, here's one called Utopia http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/z1A8OOUw01E5Jc84Mff-1Q this one's La Defense http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/ho84IFdUxupke-6pwrWW3g and Colonze http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/469ttdMVw4_1o3vkuvE_xw Any thoughts? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#Ab_Ob_Nuat [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand#The_Entertainment_Places_Act [3] http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%94 -- Best regards Mishari Muqbil EE32 64BD 7D1F 5946 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
