Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

2016-03-08 12:06 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale : > They are official dealers, and sell both used and new cars of all those > makes. Drool for yourself... http://www.louwmanexclusive.com/ > > Anyway the point is that. despite the Belgian situation that Marc > describes, examples

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

They are official dealers, and sell both used and new cars of all those makes. Drool for yourself... http://www.louwmanexclusive.com/ Anyway the point is that. despite the Belgian situation that Marc describes, examples where multiple brands are sold from the same showroom. We cannot deny that

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

2016-03-07 13:27 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale : > Have to? Is there some law or regulation in Belgium? Or is it a choice of > the brands themselves? it is the brands that impose this. > My BMW dealer (in NL) also does Mini, from the same building, at the same > desk (for

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Colin Smale wrote: > So maybe we should not use brand=* on the "shop" itself, but something like > product:car:brands=BMW;Mini to refer to the products, NOT to the external > appearance of the shop. After all, we are not listing the

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On 8/03/2016 10:25 AM, Michael Reichert wrote: Hi, Am 07.03.2016 um 08:56 schrieb Frederik Ramm: It is possible that some supermarkets would make their list of products available electronically and thus provide an incentive for a clever hacker to simply convert that to OSM. Once we say we

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

Hi, Am 07.03.2016 um 08:56 schrieb Frederik Ramm: > It is possible that some supermarkets would make their list of products > available electronically and thus provide an incentive for a clever > hacker to simply convert that to OSM. Once we say we accept a list of > products for a supermarket,

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

Marc, You assert that it doesn't exist in Belgium. It most definitely does exist elsewhere though; repeating your assertion is not going to get closer to a conclusion. In fact, as it exists for caravans, campers and bicycles, it would be advantageous to have a uniform tagging model for all these

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Colin Smale wrote: > Even if this happens in Belgium, it is clear that we have to accommodate > multi-brand dealerships in our tagging scheme because it most definitely > does occur elsewhere. From what I understood from Frederik's mail, he

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

Even if this happens in Belgium, it is clear that we have to accommodate multi-brand dealerships in our tagging scheme because it most definitely does occur elsewhere. I may be wrong, but I thought that the sort of dealership restrictions you mention were illegal these days, unless it can be

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Colin Smale wrote: > Have to? Is there some law or regulation in Belgium? I think it's required by BMW and VW/Audi. (or the company that does the imports for the brand into Belgium). I believe they even can't sell BMW motorcycles from the

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

> Op 7 mrt. 2016, om 08:56 heeft Frederik Ramm het > volgende geschreven: > > Thankfully, this is hypothetical because we won't do it. OSM is a geo > database and not a sales directory. +1 That’s exactly how I see it. Never, ever would OSM be able to support such a

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

Have to? Is there some law or regulation in Belgium? Or is it a choice of the brands themselves? My BMW dealer (in NL) also does Mini, from the same building, at the same desk (for maintenance anyway). Next door is a dealer for Rolls-Royce, TVR, McClaren, Lexus, Lamborghini and others all in one

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:46 PM, Colin Smale wrote: > Putting brand=X on a shop would indicate the branding of the shop, not > necessarily the brands which are sold within. These days (certainly in the > 4-wheeled world) we are seeing less single-branded shops/showrooms and

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On 2016-03-07 12:11, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2016-03-07 7:50 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > >> For example at present a mapper adding tags to a sewing shop that sells >> sewing machines can have >> >> paff=yes... that makes no sense unless you know Paff make sewing >>

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

2016-03-07 7:50 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > For example at present a mapper adding tags to a sewing shop that sells > sewing machines can have > > paff=yes... that makes no sense unless you know Paff make sewing > machines. > > gutenberg=yes ... makes no sense unless you know

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On 7/03/2016 8:25 PM, Colin Smale wrote: How about limiting the list to product categories, according to an agreed taxonomy? Particularly categories which help to distinguish one shop from another. For example supermarkets might be expected to sell frozen food, but occasionally they might

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

How about limiting the list to product categories, according to an agreed taxonomy? Particularly categories which help to distinguish one shop from another. For example supermarkets might be expected to sell frozen food, but occasionally they might not. So frozen food would be a candidate for a

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On 7/03/2016 6:56 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 03/07/2016 07:54 AM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Just imagine what would happen if someone took it upon them to actually list all the products sold at a supermarket. And update that once a week. I see no problem with that except that anybody

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

Hi, On 03/07/2016 07:54 AM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: >> Just imagine what would happen if >> someone took it upon them to actually list all the products sold at a >> supermarket. And update that once a week. > I see no problem with that except that anybody would quickly give up and > overall

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 02:39:52 +0100 Frederik Ramm wrote: > Just imagine what would happen if > someone took it upon them to actually list all the products sold at a > supermarket. And update that once a week. I see no problem with that except that anybody would quickly give

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

Thanks Frederik, that makes sense to me. On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 7:46 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > On 03/07/2016 06:47 AM, Marc Gemis wrote: >> Is e.g. brand for shop=car, amenity=fuel, amenity=bank acceptable ? > > The word "brand" has its root in the process of

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On 7/03/2016 12:39 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 03/07/2016 12:11 AM, Warin wrote: So you would prefer sells=motorcycle;yamaha I don't think that OSM is the right place to encode an ontology of things. That there are different types of bread and different brands of motorcycles, and that a

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

Hi, On 03/07/2016 06:47 AM, Marc Gemis wrote: > Is e.g. brand for shop=car, amenity=fuel, amenity=bank acceptable ? The word "brand" has its root in the process of marking live animals with a glowing "branding iron" to identify their owner. I understand "brand" in OSM as a tag that we apply to

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:39 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Frankly, with OSM not being a business directory, I don't even think the > particulars about what a shop sells should be mapped, except perhaps in > some limited cases Frederik, please list those cases, as I want to

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

Hi, On 03/07/2016 12:11 AM, Warin wrote: > So you would prefer > sells=motorcycle;yamaha I don't think that OSM is the right place to encode an ontology of things. That there are different types of bread and different brands of motorcycles, and that a "Yamaha" is a motorcycle while a "Hovis" is

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On 7/03/2016 2:32 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone Am 06.03.2016 um 15:35 schrieb Simon Poole : * for a small number of well defined and documented sub-keys it is not particular nice, but can be tolerated. +1, I'd also like to see this as a generally rare

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

sent from a phone > Am 06.03.2016 um 15:35 schrieb Simon Poole : > > * for a small number of well defined and documented sub-keys it is not > particular nice, but can be tolerated. +1, I'd also like to see this as a generally rare exception and not as a good way to

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

`sells:bread:sourdough:loaf:hovis=yes` It’s probably worth mentioning that we also can’t support a tagging scheme like this in iD presets. We don’t have a UI for free tagging things that go in the key part of the tag. (It’s the same problem with `seamark:` namespaced tags, which we also can’t

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

It really really really really is not a good idea to pollute the key name space with an indeterminate number of sub-keys* instead of placing values in the, no surprise there, value part. it essentially guarantees that nobody will ever evaluate any of the information and even if the proposal would

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On 6 March 2016 08:47:36 GMT+00:00, Ralph Aytoun wrote: >My personal opinion is that this is getting totally out of hand. >Shops pay a lot of money to advertise their wares and you are stepping >in >and trying to do commercial marketing for free. >Not only that but

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 08:47:36 - "Ralph Aytoun" wrote: > My personal opinion is that this is getting totally out of hand. > Shops pay a lot of money to advertise their wares and you are > stepping in and trying to do commercial marketing for free. Nobody is forcing

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

of what that shop is promoting rather than > seeing time and effort spent on this kind of unsustainable detail. > > Just my humble opinion. > > -Original Message----- From: Warin > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 7:52 AM > To: tagging@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re:

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > This an attempt to subvert the present creation of other tag/s (by stealth) > that, in my view, can be much better. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sells One problem I see at this moment, is that there

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

of unsustainable detail. Just my humble opinion. -Original Message- From: Warin Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 7:52 AM To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops.. On 6/03/2016 5:58 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: I like this, but have a few question

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

I have made some alteration that should address this? It might be more clear that it is a property key of something else .. like the height key. Description: description of items sold by a shop or some amenities. Proposal: An indication of what is sold by a shop or some amenities. Tagging:

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On 6/03/2016 5:58 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: I like this, but have a few question: - Do we always place brand at the end ? e.g. sells:cloths:children:Mói=yes or sells:cloths:Mói:children=yes ? - Can we somehow define whether one should use sells:cloths:children vs. sells:children_cloths what I

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

sent from a phone > Am 06.03.2016 um 08:25 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny : > > I would prefer to explicitly note that it is supposed to be addition to > more general tag like shop=*/amenity=*. For example it is not OK to use > sells:beer instead of amenity=pub. obviously,

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 12:01:54 +1100 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > I have created a draft for the tag 'sells'. > > This an attempt to subvert the present creation of other tag/s (by > stealth) that, in my view, can be much better. > >

Re: [Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

I like this, but have a few question: - Do we always place brand at the end ? e.g. sells:cloths:children:Mói=yes or sells:cloths:Mói:children=yes ? - Can we somehow define whether one should use sells:cloths:children vs. sells:children_cloths what I mean can we put forward some "rules" or

[Tagging] Draft of proposal tag 'sells' for shops..

I have created a draft for the tag 'sells'. This an attempt to subvert the present creation of other tag/s (by stealth) that, in my view, can be much better. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sells Comments here please. --- Proposal A tag to