Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> That was actually what I had originally proposed. My role format was > stop:+00:32, though, which is only slightly different. People in this list > noted that it would corrupt existing relation roles, so I redesigned the > proposal to have no effect on existing data. The way I think it I

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi Leif, Am 16/02/2019 um 15.04 schrieb Leif Rasmussen: > Here is a link to the current proposal, which everyone with a wiki account > can now vote on: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_schedules/Departures Please mind the rules documented at

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> I didn't follow the discussion but this proposal is at least > helpful. > Why not map xx:xx in the same route relation? Role > examples: > stop@00:20, stop_exit_only@03:45, > stop_entry_only@00:25-00:31, and for > bus stops where the timetable is approximated (like in > Brazil) use "~" > for the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> I also created a proposal, but I knew in advance it wouldn't be practical > to duplicate full GTFS functionality in OSM. Well, this is not a so simple question. There're many countries around the world that have no GTFS. And, it's just what happens to us in Brazil. We are mapping intercity bus

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Regarding the proposal, feel free to try and apply it on your bus routes. And if you mapped say a hundred, you can even change the proposal's status and bring it up for a vote. Be prepared for quite a bit of resistance though, but for what it's worth, I'm likely to vote in favour. The main point

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I think most people will be against having variable roles in the route relations. Polyglot On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 8:04 PM santamariense wrote: > > I also created a proposal, but I knew in advance it wouldn't be practical > > to duplicate full GTFS functionality in OSM. > > Well, this is not a

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I also created a proposal, but I knew in advance it wouldn't be practical to duplicate full GTFS functionality in OSM: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_timetables I'm creating this proposal, which does have information about the operators / agencies, which

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> The last edit on that proposals says > > 'Made this proposal abandoned and noted that it has been replaced by the > proposed key "departures"' So look there? Yup. I've already read all proposal and it's no too clear for me where departures=* and interval=* go. I've understood that they go in

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On 14/02/19 11:05, santamariense wrote: Why did you abandon this proposal (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_schedules/Timetable_relations)? It seems to have never been voted. And, I support it. The last edit on that proposals says 'Made this proposal

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Why did you abandon this proposal (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_schedules/Timetable_relations)? It seems to have never been voted. And, I support it. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi, Thanks for bringing up this discussion again! I have now opened up the departures tag proposal for voting, so please feel free to vote on the proposal if you would like. I had been tweaking it for a while, and it seems ready now. Thanks again, Leif Rasmussen On Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 4:54 PM

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Jo, Leif, My sincerest apologies. I couldn't find a request to vote on this list's archives. Must have overlooked it. Tijmen On 11-02-19 22:51, Jo wrote: The proposal was voted upon. On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 9:54 PM Tijmen Stam > wrote: On 31-10-18

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 at 21:54, Tijmen Stam wrote: > > On January 3rd this year, Leif added the "Interval" and "duration" tags > to the wiki for bus route: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Aroute%3Dbus=revision=1767271=1684316 > > I have sideways followed this discussion, but

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Wasn't that only for the currently abandoned parts? 在 2019年2月12日週二 05:52，Jo 寫道： > The proposal was voted upon. > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 9:54 PM Tijmen Stam wrote: > >> On 31-10-18 00:54, Leif Rasmussen wrote: >> > Hello everyone! >> > I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

The proposal was voted upon. On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 9:54 PM Tijmen Stam wrote: > On 31-10-18 00:54, Leif Rasmussen wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data. > > This information would allow OpenStreetMap to store information about >

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On 31-10-18 00:54, Leif Rasmussen wrote: Hello everyone! I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data. This information would allow OpenStreetMap to store information about when or how often certain buses or trains arrive at a platform.

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I have been using commas between the times, maybe semicolon would be better (not for readability though). Op za 3 nov. 2018 om 14:01 schreef djakk djakk : > Maybe we can put that optional piece of information inside the departures > key : departures=7:40,7:45 ; 8:40,8:45 -> means the train or

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I created a few more for a more 'complicated' line, which changes in length. Normal northbound: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8886015 Shortened northbound: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8886014 I used the same route relation twice, because for telescopic lines I only mapped

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Maybe we can put that optional piece of information inside the departures key : departures=7:40,7:45 ; 8:40,8:45 -> means the train or the bus arrives at the stop at 7:40 or 8:40 and leaves 5 minutes later. Arrival and departure time are separated by a comma, and different departures are

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

For buses it's exceptional they stay at a stop longer than strictly necessary, so I think the arrival times should be optional. If the tag is added, it should have the same amount of entries as the departures though. Sometimes I do see buses that 'linger' at stops, but that's usually because they

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Jo, I did not try yet, but I think there should be a departure timetable AND an arrival timetable (trains often stop several minutes). And this, per stop. The mapper sees a timetable at a bus stop, he puts it directly into a relation associating the bus stop and the route. This enables to

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I took it from the official timetables and generally this line doesn't suffer too much from congestion. But yes. If the timetable shows bigger variation in delay between stops over the day, then another method would be necessary. Obviously this is what the operator plans to happen. In practice

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

So this assumes that bus travels for the same time between stops both during night andduring rush hour? 3. Nov 2018 11:19 by winfi...@gmail.com : > When done this way, the departures in the tags are for the stop with role > 00:00. > Jo > Op za 3 nov. 2018 om 11:09

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

When done this way, the departures in the tags are for the stop with role 00:00. Jo Op za 3 nov. 2018 om 11:09 schreef Jo : > Hi, > > I'm looking into this timetable relation and how it could be implemented: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8885374/history > > This is for a simple

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi, I'm looking into this timetable relation and how it could be implemented: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8885374/history This is for a simple line... I added all the stops of the route relation and added the most common times to get from one to the next. I realise things can get

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

3. Nov 2018 05:55 by djakk.dj...@gmail.com : > I do not see why timetables are hard to maintain ? Most bus lines do not > change their schedules for years (even in big cities, Paris for example).   In my city (Kraków, Poland) schedules are changed multiple times

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On 03/11/2018 04:55, djakk djakk wrote: I do not see why timetables are hard to maintain ? Most bus lines do not change their schedules for years (even in big cities, Paris for example). Because changing the schedule means buy a new bus and hire new drivers. OSM has been described as a

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Moreover, timetables in OSM can be useful even incomplete : a mapper can map only timetables of 2 bus stops, its local bus stop’s and the main stop of the line (downtown’s bus stop), then you can tell users the timetable between the bus stops of this suburb and downtown. Julien « djakk » Le

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

No : bus relations are broken because of the way part, not because of the node part. And detailed timetables will be associated with the nodes. Breaking a bus relation by cutting a street way in half does not implies that the osm timetable breaks too. I do not see why timetables are hard to

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I'm siding with the idea of linking to an external data-base, as maintaining this in OSM is going to be a nightmare :-( On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 08:45, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > Sure! But how many GTFS feeds are there in the whole world, compared to > the number of towns with public transit? > >

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

“In cities that publish their GTFS timetables under free licenses which are kept current I don't see the point in duplicating this into OSM” Sure! But how many GTFS feeds are there in the whole world, compared to the number of towns with public transit? I’m guessing that in Europe perhaps the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 at 19:58, Frederik Ramm wrote: > also burdens OSM with dead data that will not be properly maintained. This is my experience too, I've seen people add bus routes from their surveys into OSM but they quickly become out of date and aren't maintained. Some roads can have 100+

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Impossible to maintain ? Maybe but let’s give a try ! djakk Le ven. 2 nov. 2018 à 08:23, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > > > sent from a phone > > > On 1. Nov 2018, at 21:19, Roland Olbricht > wrote: > > > > opening_hours=... > >for the operation times > > > I’d suggest to use

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

sent from a phone > On 1. Nov 2018, at 21:19, Roland Olbricht wrote: > > opening_hours=... >for the operation times I’d suggest to use service_times which has the same syntax as opening hours but seems semantically more precise. Cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I do not agree with adding schedules of departures to OSM, where I live would be almost impossible to maintain, more than 200 bus routes, most with frequencies less than 20 minutes, with more than 50 stops each route, stops with 15 different routes , the frequencies vary according to the time of

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

The timetable proposal would not affect existing OSM data. It would simply add new relations having existing features as members of those relations. If timetables are out of date for a certain route, a contributor could simply delete all of the timetable relations that are parents of that route.

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi, Hint: you may get more qualified feedback if you use the talk-transit@ mailing list. This tagging@ list is a generalist mailing list intended to gather people with a passion to write mails. One thing we could investigate is some sort of indication whether a bus or train route tagged in

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I incidentally ran across Moovit.com, who describe themselves as the wikipedia of transit and are using OSM as basemap: https://moovit.com and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moovit#Product. Is it what you have in mind to achieve ?___ Tagging mailing

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Globally, US DOT, the World Bank, ASFAIK all EU countries, have settled on GTFS, or eventually will on some future version. So there are two cases: 1. Transit Services that use GTFS 2. Transit Services that do not use GTFS For Case 1, the General Transit Feed Specification Reference declares

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Graeme Fitzpatrick: I have changed the proposal, and the level of detail that you describe can now be added very easily. At the bus stop, the proposal now states to create one new relation for each bus route stopping at that stop and include both the stop and the route inside each of those new

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

> Thanks for the feedback on this proposal! Maintainability and corruption > of existing features seem to be the two biggest concerns, both of which I > have reduced in the new version of the proposal. I really like the idea > that Polyglot expressed on the talk page of the proposal of using a >

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

this does feel like a much easier to understand idea now, it may be worth thinking of a way to still incorporate the interval in the second proposed feature, for example a local bus in my area has one every 10 minutes for a substantial amount of time. On 10/31/18 21:04, Leif Rasmussen wrote:

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Thanks for the feedback on this proposal! Maintainability and corruption of existing features seem to be the two biggest concerns, both of which I have reduced in the new version of the proposal. I really like the idea that Polyglot expressed on the talk page of the proposal of using a

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

As others have said, it could be handy but probably better just linked to an external data-base. One concern I have is trying to insert a schedule for different routes that use the same stop? eg This bus stop has a 53 bus about every 30 minutes from 7am till 5pm; a 65 bus every 10 minutes in

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi I hope you're open to rescinding this proposal. This data is too transient to be of benefit within the OSM database. The poor implemented & negligibly maintenance of opening hours is a good example as to why it shouldn't be added. The numerous Public Transport schemas are a mess. Their

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

That’s true even in parts of the developed world. It would be useful! Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 31, 2018, at 4:18 PM, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > I agree that it would be useful and reasonable to have frequency (headway’s) > and the days a route is served. > > Here in Indonesia, most

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I agree that it would be useful and reasonable to have frequency (headway’s) and the days a route is served. Here in Indonesia, most local buses do not run on a timetable, but it would be very useful to know if there is one bus a day, one per hour, or one per minute. This makes a huge difference,

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

TL;DR I am agains this proposal. Timetables in OSM are an ugly hack. Please store them outside of OSM and link them using foreign keys. Hi Leif, Am 31.10.18 um 00:54 schrieb Leif Rasmussen: > I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data. > This information would allow

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

*Envoyé:* 31 octobre 2018 1:26 AM > *À:* tagging@openstreetmap.org > *Répondre à:* tagging@openstreetmap.org > *Objet:* [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC > > Hello everyone! > I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data. > This informat

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

ographeFou De: 354...@gmail.comEnvoyé: 31 octobre 2018 1:26 AMÀ: tagging@openstreetmap.orgRépondre à: tagging@openstreetmap.orgObjet: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC Hello everyone!I recentl

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

If we allow timetables in OSM, transit companies will possibly maintain directly them through OSM ;) There is a lot of non-geographical informations in OSM like the opening hours of a shop so public transport schedule does not shocked me :) djakk Le mer. 31 oct. 2018 à 09:58, Frederik Ramm a

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hi, On 31.10.2018 00:54, Leif Rasmussen wrote: > I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data.  > This information would allow OpenStreetMap to store information about > when or how often certain buses or trains arrive at a platform. Surveying that is hard, and the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Op wo 31 okt. 2018 om 09:31 schreef djakk djakk : > Hello ! I think it’s a good idea to “replace” GTFS files with OSM data. > > In OSM there is already half of the GTFS (the relations that describes > stops and route). > We have the part of GTFS that makes sense to have in a geographical

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

It is generally a bad idea to store data twice in different places. Any database expert will agree with that. It's a simple question of data maintanance. OSM is being suffocated with imports/insertion of data that are maintained outside OSM, and hence needs regular re-import or manual update:

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hello ! I think it’s a good idea to “replace” GTFS files with OSM data. In OSM there is already half of the GTFS (the relations that describes stops and route). Most lines of big cities can be map with frequency only (subway every 90 seconds during rush hour, 3 minutes otherwise). djakk Le

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

As you don't provide more details, this statement reads as a personal preference and isn't helping in improving the proposal of enabling public transport routing. Can you make a more factual and informative explanation as to how it would be bad for OSM to contain timetable data? The proposal

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

A couple of thoughts: - The schedules I know have values different for week days and week-ends and again for school holidays, so I wonder if the depature tag value (as well as the other timetable tags) of frequent departure lines will not run into the 255 character limit. This is similar to the

Re: [Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

I am strongly against storing timetable data in OSM. tom On 31.10.2018 00:54, Leif Rasmussen wrote: Hello everyone! I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data.  This information would allow OpenStreetMap to store information about when or how often certain buses or

[Tagging] Public Transport Timetables Proposal RFC

Hello everyone! I recently wrote up a proposal page for public transport schedule data. This information would allow OpenStreetMap to store information about when or how often certain buses or trains arrive at a platform. https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_schedules