2015-03-20 21:59 GMT+01:00 Jan van Bekkum jan.vanbek...@gmail.com:
I have updated the proposal
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/camp_site%3D* with
the feedback as much as possible.
Appearantly there are already people using this key following a different
scheme, (looks
2015-03-23 10:50 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
accessibility
sorry, /s/accessibility/diversity/
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+5
I fully agree with Dave! We need a clear differentiation between regular
filling stations with large underground containers and the shops that sell
a few liters of diesel of which you may hope that it isn't polluted and
doesn't contain water.
When I travel in countries like Malawi or Ethiopia
Ah, Jan, you added too many conditions! The majority of campgrounds United
States parks are not guarded, and almost never fully staffed. The larger
parks have someone at the gate to collect money, but they do not guard
the campers Most of the parks in Alaska work on the honor system: uoip ut
your
2015-03-23 13:02 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
I don't like the idea that a designated camp site has to be
non-commercial, I'd rather tag that aspect with the fee key.
to explain a bit more: we use designated in other parts of our tagging
(access) as a stronger yes
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree that a 'forum' is far better at engaging a community ... keeps
topics more organised as replies are localised (that are no isolated
branches
2015-03-22 14:00 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com:
+1 but please copy and archive the proposal
+1, rather than (User moved page Proposed features/Smoking to Tag:smoking)
(undo) the Tag definition page should be a new page, referring the
proposal page (e.g. in the see also section, or
On 22.03.2015 20:29, fly wrote:
some independent petrol stations are organized in associations and use
these as their brand, see e.g. here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesverband_freier_Tankstellen
So it is a brand. Maybe just small, but a brand of that association of
fuel stations.
not
On 23.03.2015 15:11, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2015-03-23 14:55 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at
mailto:b...@volki.at:
Ok, if it's only 2 or 3 liters, it's not really a fuel station, but
rather a
shop=car_parts.
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery
Sorry, fuel is not a car_part. And these small fuel shops are not an
amenity.
Stalemate.
@Fly - these places are operated by private individuals out of the front of
their homes primarily. It's typically a small shed with a large window thru
which the fuel is either pumped or handed over in
2015-03-23 15:27 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de:
The wiki describes operator=independent as he value has been used when
exact details of the operator are not known, other than that they are a
small independent firm.
Sounds like that's exactly what we are looking for.
I don't object to the operator=independent tag. That's an okay addition to
the scenario. However, I do object to tagging these things as amenities.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com
wrote:
Sorry, fuel is not a car_part. And these small fuel shops are not an
2015-03-23 15:30 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at:
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery is bicycle_parts.
The definition says: A place selling auto parts, auto accessories, motor
oil, car chemicals, etc.
That fits perfectly.
can you expand? Someone sitting
Am 23.03.2015 um 07:02 schrieb johnw:
On Mar 20, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
You can change it .. or make proposals here. Just don't change the existing
values and it should be fine.
I'd think you'd be adding heating oils, propane and kerosene.
The wiki entry
On 23.03.2015 11:02, Dave Swarthout wrote:
An amenity is something the /general public/ might like or use or want to
visit. These little shops are definitely not that. They sell small
quantities of fuel, usually 2 or 3 liters, to local motorcycle drivers.
That's why the general public might
Am 23.03.2015 um 09:53 schrieb Paul Johnson:
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote:
It is amazing to see how few people participate in this discussion and
vote compared to the number of mappers.
STOP USING MAILINGLISTS!!!
Those things might be nice for
Am 22.03.2015 um 23:11 schrieb Warin:
On 23/03/2015 1:20 AM, fly wrote:
Am 17.03.2015 um 07:26 schrieb John Willis:
There was a big bruhaha about any mappers mapping Israeli military
installations. They were deleting everything and leaving notes not to
map things on that location, if I
2015-03-23 14:55 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at:
Ok, if it's only 2 or 3 liters, it's not really a fuel station, but rather
a
shop=car_parts.
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery is bicycle_parts.
cheers,
Martin
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2015-03-23 14:55 GMT+01:00 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at:
Ok, if it's only 2 or 3 liters, it's not really a fuel station, but rather
a
shop=car_parts.
I'd prefer shop=pharmacy, dispensing=no ;-)
Cheers,
Martin
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On 23.03.2015 14:50, Friedrich Volkmann wrote:
amenity=fuel
fuel=bottled
Which would render indistinguishable from a full service fuel station.
That's fine, because selling fuel is what makes it a fuel station.
You have missed the point of this thread. The world is not perfect.
Am 23.03.2015 um 15:33 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
2015-03-23 15:27 GMT+01:00 Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de:
The wiki describes operator=independent as he value has been used when
exact details of the operator are not known, other than that they are a
small independent firm.
I can't imagine that people who are able to provide mapping input for OSM
are not able to work with forums etc. Moderation is something you have to
agree upon before. The OSM community can decide not to moderate.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 10:53 AM Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
wrote:
2015-03-23 11:02 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com:
I agree with amenity=fuel + a subtag like these (if needed).
This is not the way to go.
An amenity is something the *general public* might like or use or want to
visit. These little shops are definitely not that. They sell
I have renamed commercial to standard as it is the most common
campground and can include campgrounds that have all facilities of a
privately run campground, but are run by a government body (like the South
African parks). I also added details to the description of this category of
campground
On Mar 20, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
You can change it .. or make proposals here. Just don't change the existing
values and it should be fine.
I'd think you'd be adding heating oils, propane and kerosene.
The wiki entry is uneditable - I’ve edited quite a few
How does the tagging differ from an unstaffed filling station where you
enter your credit card and fill up the tank of your car yourself 24/7 like
I seem them all over the place in the Netherlands? In the situation you
describe I really prefer shop=*.
Regards,
Jan
At these places you
OK, I'm struggling. I started answering Dave S's stuff (below) and
realised I was really arguing away the who catagory approach. Sigh.
Are we better saying -
tourism=camp_site
toilets=yes
sanitary_dump_station=yes
amenity=showers
fee=yes
tourism=camp_site
toilets=no
sanitary_dump_station=no
Well, I guess I am also out of this. Needs me to log in to make a comment
but appears I have done something wrong because it just does not work for
me. I do not have a Google account and my Virgin email is unacceptable.
So I cannot comment.
Question:... Can you include pictures or diagrams as
I don't know if I need to say this, but Ralph, Andre, please could you
send report your problems to the loomio people? You do that here:
https://github.com/loomio/loomio/issues
Dan
2015-03-23 16:42 GMT+00:00 AYTOUN RALPH ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com:
Well, I guess I am also out of this. Needs me
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
wrote:
2015-03-23 11:02 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com:
I agree with amenity=fuel + a subtag like these (if needed).
This is not the way to go.
An amenity is something the general public might like
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote:
I object. The feature page should document actual usage, and actual usage
differs from proposed usage. smoking=outside is the second most common
value
and 15x more abundant than the proposed smoking:outside=yes.
If
OSM is a very large community with much accumulated knowledge and
skill - it's bound to be quite conservative, and for good reason. The
challenge is to allow experimental innovations to breathe without
disrupting the community. We'll never be able to organise a vote (ha!)
to switch to loomio all
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree that a 'forum' is far better at engaging a community ... keeps
topics more organised as replies are localised (that are no isolated
branches for instance), avoids the 'digest mode' problem, some even have a
system of
On 21.03.2015 01:54, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
Any objection to moving:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Smoking
because it is heavily used and obviously well established.
I object. The feature page should document actual usage, and actual usage
differs from proposed usage.
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote:
It is amazing to see how few people participate in this discussion and
vote compared to the number of mappers.
STOP USING MAILINGLISTS!!!
Those things might be nice for some tech savy people, but for everybody
else
On 2015-03-23 01:18, Dave Swarthout wrote :
I'll second the notion that we need something better than the current
system. It is an anachronism!
My first look at Loomio was good, I was impressed, but my immediate
thought was, it'll never get accepted into OSM
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:57 AM,
On 20.03.2015 00:48, Warin wrote:
On 20/03/2015 9:39 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk
mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
amenity=fuel
fuel=bottled
Which would render indistinguishable from a full service fuel
2015-03-23 10:43 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org:
The mailing lists are moderated.
they are moderately moderated, you have to act in a very asocial way to
risk moderation, unless it's the accessibility list, maybe ;-)
Cheers,
Martin
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On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote:
I agree with amenity=fuel + a subtag like these (if needed).
This is not the way to go.
An amenity is something the *general public* might like or use or want to
visit. These little shops are definitely not that. They
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Kotya Karapetyan kotya.li...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree that a 'forum' is far better at engaging a community ...
On Mon, 2015-03-23 at 19:07 +0100, Kotya Karapetyan wrote:
We'll definitely need to find a smart and soft way to attract people
to a different platform.
I think its better than the email list. For a number of reasons. And
while the list also wins a couple of points, overall, Loomio is
On Mon, 2015-03-23 at 15:04 +0100, fly wrote:
as long as there is no alternative for offline support we need email.
Fly, once registered as a Loomio user, you can still choose to receive
and respond to email, maybe without ever actually logging into the
Loomio interface again (?).
Please also
On Mon, 2015-03-23 at 19:12 +0700, Dave Swarthout wrote:
The majority of campgrounds United States parks are not guarded,
Agree, guarded is not a very friendly word !
and almost never fully staffed.
yes, fully staffed implies 24/7 or thereabouts. We need to include
parks where some
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 24, 2015, at 2:48 AM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote:
On 23.03.2015 15:36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery is bicycle_parts.
The definition says: A place selling auto parts, auto accessories, motor
Wouldn't it make much more sense to use start_date for the starting date, and
completion_date for the completion date?
On March 22, 2015 10:27:00 AM CDT, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
wrote:
Am 22.03.2015 um 15:39 schrieb fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com:
but how to
start_date ? start of planning?, construction? occupation?
completion of planning? construction? occupation?
built_data ... is fairly simple. I like simple and plain. It would need more
words for structures that have several 'additions', 'refurbishments', etc ..
but the meaning is more
Just to make sure we are all singing from the same hymn book, here is a
table summarising the differences between these different camp sites.
Sorry if you are not using fixed spacing fonts, you should !
StandardDesignated Trekking Informal
Fee Significant No/Nominal ?
See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:smoking
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RU:Key:smoking
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Martin,
I agree with the proposal to have a different main tag for informal sites;
something like tourism=wild_camp. I guess some kind of RV/trekking
attribute would work as well, What we now are looking for is the proper
distinction between 1, 2 and 4. It should be one attribute key to
Dave,
Wouldn't such campsites belong to cat. 2?
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:28 PM Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ah, Jan, you added too many conditions! The majority of campgrounds United
States parks are not guarded, and almost never fully staffed. The larger
parks have someone
Question:... Can you include pictures or diagrams as visual arguments to
support your reasoning?
Doesn't seems to be possible.
I was too quick. It *is* possible. Here is an example.
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Now I am missing the like link :)
We'll definitely need to find a smart and soft way to attract people to a
different platform. However, though I agree that email is not the best
tool, we need a very good alternative rather than a marginally better
option first.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:40 AM,
Thanks Kotya,
Being able to include pictures, etc, is at least is a great positive.
I still need to sort out what has happened to stop me from signing up for
the group. If this is going to be a common problem then it may discourage
some from getting involved. Or we need to give more accurate
Yes they can. Probably best to try it out - sorry that you're stuck
outside of it at the moment!
2015-03-23 18:36 GMT+00:00 AYTOUN RALPH ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com:
The next question is
The results of the graph are based on the response of the person when they
post their comment. This
The next question is
The results of the graph are based on the response of the person when they
post their comment. This affects the result of the pie chart because it
starts to clock up how people feel before all the comments for and against
have been posted. Those later arguments could
On 23.03.2015 15:36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2 liters of fuel are as much car_parts as a bakery is bicycle_parts.
The definition says: A place selling auto parts, auto accessories, motor
oil, car chemicals, etc.
That fits perfectly.
can you expand? Someone sitting
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:42 PM, AYTOUN RALPH ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com
wrote:
Well, I guess I am also out of this. Needs me to log in to make a comment
but appears I have done something wrong because it just does not work for
me. I do not have a Google account and my Virgin email is
I was *too* quick. Here is an example:
https://www.loomio.org/d/1E3YAaz0/test-images
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Many questions, many answers...
First:
My point might be that with so many factors, we are unlikely to see a
100% of campgrounds to fit into their category flawlessly every time.
Thus words like rarely and usually.
+1 on that
You probably get hot showers in the bigger U.S. campgrounds, those in
I agree completely with what John said in the previous reply.
Repeat: a fuel shop is not a car_parts shop. The etc. was probably added
there as a catch all to include tools specific to cars or whatever but it
definitely, certainly does not include petrol.
Dave
On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 4:37 AM,
Also, Bryce makes this point, a valid point I must add:
These stands are also far more volatile than a proper fuel station. And
once they cease business
very hard to un-map.
That's true but it's also true of many other objects. Mapping the world is
a dynamic endeavor because things change:
Tagging list folks may wish to track or comment on:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:indoor
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Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 24, 2015, at 10:22 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote:
n the 5 years I've been motorcycling around Thailand I'm seeing more and more
of these. But the other type, the shops we're working with now, will likely
be around for many years. They should
On Mar 24, 2015, at 10:04 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote:
The etc. was probably added there as a catch all to include tools specific
to cars or whatever but it definitely, certainly does not include petrol.
Car stores sell all the aftermarket stuff for cars (besides
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