[Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
I am not an expert. The four bridges in my area are similar in construction. They use boat-shaped floating devices, similar to your antique example. I do not know whether these are actually (ex-) boats. As far as I know, when they are opened, typically because of high water flow and consequent danger of them being damaged, they are swung by 90 degrees as a complete unit and anchored to the river bank. They are not normally opened to let boats through and I don't think they can be partially opened. But they are not floating bridges as in your second link. If you give me time I most likely do have photographs of all of them, at least one of them both opened and closed. (My photos are geotagged, but my archive does not allow search by coordinates) Volker Hi Volker, What’s up against the tag building=bridge, floating=yes, with additional floating=pontoon / ship, a pontoon is a sturdy hardly to move object, a ship bridge where each part / section is based on a one or more ships, and one section can be removed to let a vessel pass by. https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/collectie/RP-P-OB-79.978 The Duke of Alva made this crossing at Antwerp, a road upon ships. It looks more like a barrier then the possibility to remove a section out of the way. With one exception the Dutch vlotbrug. http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlotbrug The Sint Maartensvlotbrug consists of 2 pontoons floating to and from the middle with a bridge (ramp) on each side. Hendrikklaas ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
Hi, the approved and currently active proposal for bridges is not quite clear on this - the older bridge=pontoon was not obsoleted but a new bridge=yes+bridge:structure=floating was introduced with the description A bridge whose load is supported by floating on water, rather than resting on fixed supports. Typically a pontoon bridge. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Bridge_types Are there floating bridges other than pontoon bridges? Should pontoon be moved into bridge:structure and replace floating? Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
2014-09-02 12:16 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: Are there floating bridges other than pontoon bridges? yes, there are bridges supported by boats. These are generally not called pontoon. Should pontoon be moved into bridge:structure and replace floating? for me floating isn't a kind of structure, it is a way of supporting load (instead of leading it into the ground it gets supported by the water). Besides this, pontoon could maybe be a kind of structure, instead of pillar or pylon for instance, which leads to another issue: structure should probably be separated into the horizontal piece atop carrying the load of the carriageway (span, truss, beam, girder, frame, arch, post ...) and the vertical pieces getting these forces into the ground (or on the water). Sometimes this is the same (e.g. a simple arch), but often it is not. You could alternatively also expect the material / construction details of the pontoon in the tag for structure. I think bridges are a vast topic which ideally could be structures with the help of a civil engineer (even better someone specialized in bridges), to come to a solid tagging. Once the tags are developed and documented it will be very easy also for a layman to classifiy a distinct bridge in detail with very few tags. By a quick search I have found this page with english terminology: http://pghbridges.com/termsBrg.htm They do also provide some nice schemes for a few basic bridge types: http://pghbridges.com/basics.htm cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
yes, there are bridges supported by boats. These are generally not called pontoon. Wikipedia does not agree with Martin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_bridge Ther are at least four boat bridges in Veneto mapped as bridge=pontoon Way 38380495 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38380495Way 36364587 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/36364587Way 128610106 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/128610106Way 135906773 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/135906773 Volker ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
2014-09-02 16:14 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com: Wikipedia does not agree with Martin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_bridge it depends on the language ;-) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponton cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
Here in Western Washington we call them pontoons. See http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/SR520/Pontoons.htm We've never properly tagged the bridge type but they are pontoons. These pontoons do not look like the wiki picture, but are big boxes which are anchored to the lake/ocean floor. BTW - these are large, multilane structures with no sense of sway, except in the most extreme weather. And then they close the bridge. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-09-02 16:14 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com: Wikipedia does not agree with Martin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_bridge it depends on the language ;-) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponton cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
Pontoon bridge is the only term I am familiar with for such bridges. On September 2, 2014 9:55:00 AM CDT, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: Here in Western Washington we call them pontoons. See http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/SR520/Pontoons.htm We've never properly tagged the bridge type but they are pontoons. These pontoons do not look like the wiki picture, but are big boxes which are anchored to the lake/ocean floor. BTW - these are large, multilane structures with no sense of sway, except in the most extreme weather. And then they close the bridge. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-09-02 16:14 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com: Wikipedia does not agree with Martin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_bridge it depends on the language ;-) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponton cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 04:22:34PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-09-02 16:14 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com: Wikipedia does not agree with Martin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_bridge it depends on the language ;-) language problems are a disaster for us. Yesterday looked at suspension bridges, apparently in some parts of the world suspension is understood to mean suspended operation, abandoned or whatever. Today noticed that someone tagged a rather unusual single node object with bridge=yes + bridge:moveable=bascule https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2301185674 - it appears that in French Pont Bascule has this meaning: https://www.google.com/search?q=Pont+Basculesafe=offie=utf-8hl=engws_rd=ssltbm=isch Something like pontoon bridge is definitely much better than floating bridge which may have any number of meanings for different people - google image search is my favorite method to look for meanings. Summary, I am strongly in favor of moving pontoon to bridge:structure and forgetting about floating until someone disambiguates it from pontoon and writes a description for it in 12 languages. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
2014-09-02 17:29 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: Something like pontoon bridge is definitely much better than floating bridge which may have any number of meanings for different people - google image search is my favorite method to look for meanings. IMHO floating bridge is hardly to be misunderstood when speaking about bridge types, and also the Google image search seems to confirm that this is an established term. Where ships might beconsidered pontoons when used as bridge support, or not, doesn't really change the game, it will still be a floating bridge, and also wikipedia:en confirms this (pontoon bridge or floating bridge) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
Wikipedia does not agree with Martin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_bridge it depends on the language ;-) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponton ... more on the selection of the correct Wikipedia page: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontonbr%C3%BCcke :-) Volker ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
2014-09-02 17:46 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us: Then again if I made a pontoon out of concrete, they'd just sink. While I generally agree with your agreement, this is not true, ships can be built out of concrete (think aircraft carriers for instance), and German universities even hold a regular competition who builds the best canoe out of (fibre)cement: http://www.betonkanu-regatta.de/ ;-) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
On 9/2/14 1:12 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-09-02 17:46 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us mailto:cliff...@snowandsnow.us: Then again if I made a pontoon out of concrete, they'd just sink. While I generally agree with your agreement, this is not true, ships can be built out of concrete (think aircraft carriers for instance), and German universities even hold a regular competition who builds the best canoe out of (fibre)cement: http://www.betonkanu-regatta.de/ the British built two whole artificial harbors during WWII using concrete pontoons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour https://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/sets/72157607171004437 richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
The key is to have enough empty space at the center, so that the overall density is less than that of water. On September 2, 2014 12:12:02 PM CDT, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-09-02 17:46 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us: Then again if I made a pontoon out of concrete, they'd just sink. While I generally agree with your agreement, this is not true, ships can be built out of concrete (think aircraft carriers for instance), and German universities even hold a regular competition who builds the best canoe out of (fibre)cement: http://www.betonkanu-regatta.de/ ;-) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] floating or pontoon bridges?
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: While I generally agree with your agreement, this is not true, ships can be built out of concrete (think aircraft carriers for instance), and German universities even hold a regular competition who builds the best canoe out of (fibre)cement: http://www.betonkanu-regatta.de/ ;-) It was the part of if I made pontoons out of concrete that would sink. I watched, and even took a video, of the pontoons being floated to the new bridge. They are massive. Then again, they have to hold something like six lanes of traffic plus possible light rail traffic. -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
