Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
sent from a phone Am 25.08.2015 um 19:10 schrieb serpens-...@gmx.de: And amenity=embassy just way to specific, nobody wants amenity=consulate_general, ameninty=consulate etc. why not? What is the advantage of using diplomatic instead of amenity as a key? Why should we use the same main tag for the ambassador's home and the embassy with its offices for the public? cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
Take a look at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_process --K On 26 August 2015 at 13:10, serpens-...@gmx.de wrote: What is the best way to bring this on a formal way to an official tag? Is wiki:Proposed_features the right place (it is partly about changing existing tags not only about new tags)? Where takes a vote place about this? Best Serpens Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. August 2015 um 14:21 Uhr Von: serpens-...@gmx.de An: tagging@openstreetmap.org Betreff: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr) Short introduction: Let’s take the tagging scheme „fuel“ for example: amenity=fuel fuel:diesel=yes/no fuel:discount=discount programme … This is logical and consistent: amenity=xy and then a namespace xy:subkey=Tag --- Now to my topic: diplomatic institution – like an embassy, a consulate, ambassador’s residence, honorary consulate, consulate general, delegation, high commission, permanent mission, (permanent) representation etc. We have amenity=embassy since long time. Some of these are tagged on top with the (relatively new) key „diplomatic“ too – a very useful key. --- So I have two suggestions: *FIRST* Change amenity=embassy to amenity=diplomatic (this is more consistent and logical, analog to amenity=fuel etc.) or whatever=diplomatic. But please not the too specific „amenity=embassy“ – how could I explain a new mapper to tag a non-embassy (like a consulate) as „amenity=embassy“. for this, see also proposed features: - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Embassy (and „talk“ page there) --- Besides the tagging of the type of diplomatic institution it is super useful to tag a machine-readable country code (at least for the sending country). This is done so far via country=country code. This is not the best solution because there are very often misunderstandings – which country? The sending country or the destination (hosting) country? Sometimes target=country code is used for the destination (hosting / „targeted“) country. My *SECOND* suggestion: diplomatic:sending=ES --- machine-readable ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code diplomatic:destination=FR --- -- -- It could be also diplomatic:destination_country or diplomatic:target or something like this. The destination country is not always identical with addr:country – see for example the embassy of Ethiopia in Berlin (destination countries: Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic), see http://aethiopien-botschaft.de/ for this, see also my osm blog (about tagging country codes on embassies etc.): - state 2009: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/5734 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/9082 - state 2015: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/28350 --- Because English is not my first language: Dear native speakers, please check if this is correct (sending country / destination country?). Taginfo: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=embassy http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/diplomatic http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/country http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/target Best serpens --- tl;dr (sorry for the long post!): Example (Spanish consulate in France – CURRENT STATE): amenity=embassy--- „oh, look, it’s an embassy!“ diplomatic=consulate --- contradiction: „uhm, wait, no. it’s a consulate.“ country=ES --- often misunderstood as „addr:country“ name=Spanish consulate addr:country=FR … Example (Spanish consulate in France – MY PROPOSAL): amenity=diplomatic --- it’s a diplomatic institution diplomatic:type=consulate --- more specififc: it’s a consulate diplomatic:sending=ES --- machine-readable ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code diplomatic:destination=FR --- -- -- name=Spanish consulate addr:country=FR … ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
What is the best way to bring this on a formal way to an official tag? Is wiki:Proposed_features the right place (it is partly about changing existing tags not only about new tags)? Where takes a vote place about this? Best Serpens Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. August 2015 um 14:21 Uhr Von: serpens-...@gmx.de An: tagging@openstreetmap.org Betreff: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr) Short introduction: Let’s take the tagging scheme „fuel“ for example: amenity=fuel fuel:diesel=yes/no fuel:discount=discount programme … This is logical and consistent: amenity=xy and then a namespace xy:subkey=Tag --- Now to my topic: diplomatic institution – like an embassy, a consulate, ambassador’s residence, honorary consulate, consulate general, delegation, high commission, permanent mission, (permanent) representation etc. We have amenity=embassy since long time. Some of these are tagged on top with the (relatively new) key „diplomatic“ too – a very useful key. --- So I have two suggestions: *FIRST* Change amenity=embassy to amenity=diplomatic (this is more consistent and logical, analog to amenity=fuel etc.) or whatever=diplomatic. But please not the too specific „amenity=embassy“ – how could I explain a new mapper to tag a non-embassy (like a consulate) as „amenity=embassy“. for this, see also proposed features: - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Embassy (and „talk“ page there) --- Besides the tagging of the type of diplomatic institution it is super useful to tag a machine-readable country code (at least for the sending country). This is done so far via country=country code. This is not the best solution because there are very often misunderstandings – which country? The sending country or the destination (hosting) country? Sometimes target=country code is used for the destination (hosting / „targeted“) country. My *SECOND* suggestion: diplomatic:sending=ES --- machine-readable ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code diplomatic:destination=FR --- -- -- It could be also diplomatic:destination_country or diplomatic:target or something like this. The destination country is not always identical with addr:country – see for example the embassy of Ethiopia in Berlin (destination countries: Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic), see http://aethiopien-botschaft.de/ for this, see also my osm blog (about tagging country codes on embassies etc.): - state 2009: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/5734 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/9082 - state 2015: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/28350 --- Because English is not my first language: Dear native speakers, please check if this is correct (sending country / destination country?). Taginfo: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=embassy http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/diplomatic http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/country http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/target Best serpens --- tl;dr (sorry for the long post!): Example (Spanish consulate in France – CURRENT STATE): amenity=embassy--- „oh, look, it’s an embassy!“ diplomatic=consulate --- contradiction: „uhm, wait, no. it’s a consulate.“ country=ES --- often misunderstood as „addr:country“ name=Spanish consulate addr:country=FR … Example (Spanish consulate in France – MY PROPOSAL): amenity=diplomatic --- it’s a diplomatic institution diplomatic:type=consulate --- more specififc: it’s a consulate diplomatic:sending=ES --- machine-readable ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code diplomatic:destination=FR --- -- -- name=Spanish consulate addr:country=FR … ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
I'm a bit lost in this thread and hope that I'm not repeating what was already said, but there is extensive documentation on this topic in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dembassy and linked pages. It might be disputable whether tagging consulate generals as embassies in the first level tag though. The above mentioned, more verbose suggestions (sending_country and destination_country rather than the documented country) make perfect sense also to me The current state is documented there, yes. But I think here and not there is the right place to discuss my new suggestions (diplomatic:sending_country=cc etc.). And amenity=embassy just way to specific, nobody wants amenity=consulate_general, ameninty=consulate etc. On http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:diplomatic is written: „Do not use diplomatic=* without amenity=embassy since it is not independently recognised by renderers.“ – that is true for now and I want to get rid of this. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
Hi, thank you for your thoughts! diplomatic:country=ES I don’t think that is the best solution. Why not? As I wrote: The destination country is not always identical with addr:country – see for example the embassy of Ethiopia in Berlin (destination countries: Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic), see http://aethiopien-botschaft.de/ So there is an embassy - located in Berlin (addr:country=DE), - the sending country is Ethiopia (diplomatic:sending_country=ET) - and the destination countries are Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic (diplomatic:destination_country=DE;PL;SK;CZ). So every tag key makes sense (in my eyes). Best Julian ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
On Tuesday 2015-08-25 16:42 +0200, serpens-...@gmx.de wrote: The destination country is not always identical with addr:country – see for example the embassy of Ethiopia in Berlin (destination countries: Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic), see http://aethiopien-botschaft.de/ So there is an embassy - located in Berlin (addr:country=DE), - the sending country is Ethiopia (diplomatic:sending_country=ET) - and the destination countries are Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic (diplomatic:destination_country=DE;PL;SK;CZ). Another example is that many (maybe all?) embassies to the Vatican are actually located in Italy (in many cases separate from the embassies to Italy, also located in Rome), e.g., around: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/41.90247/12.46159 -David -- 턞 L. David Baron http://dbaron.org/ 턂 턢 Mozilla https://www.mozilla.org/ 턂 Before I built a wall I'd ask to know What I was walling in or walling out, And to whom I was like to give offense. - Robert Frost, Mending Wall (1914) signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
sent from a phone Am 25.08.2015 um 15:16 schrieb Kieron Thwaites kieron.thwai...@gmail.com: To take your example of a Spanish consulate in France, I would amend it to something along these lines: amenity=diplomatic diplomatic=consulate diplomatic:country=ES name=Spanish Consulate addr:country=FR having an English name for a Spanish consulate to France seems kind of odd for the tag name ;-) cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
having an English name for a Spanish consulate to France seems kind of odd for the tag name ;-) That’s a joke, right? ;-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
serpens-...@gmx.de wrote on 2015-08-25 16:43: having an English name for a Spanish consulate to France seems kind of odd for the tag name ;-) That’s a joke, right? ;-) I would not see that a joke. name= should be the locally used name, name:en= the English one. t. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
having an English name for a Spanish consulate to France seems kind of odd for the tag name ;-) That’s a joke, right? ;-) I would not see that a joke. name= should be the locally used name, name:en= the English one. It was just an hypothetical example and the whole discussion is not about the name tag, so I couldn’t really see the point. But for the record: Yes, of course, you both are right :-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
Ah, OK. That makes more sense then. (: --K On 25 August 2015 at 17:15, L. David Baron dba...@dbaron.org wrote: On Tuesday 2015-08-25 16:42 +0200, serpens-...@gmx.de wrote: The destination country is not always identical with addr:country – see for example the embassy of Ethiopia in Berlin (destination countries: Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic), see http://aethiopien-botschaft.de/ So there is an embassy - located in Berlin (addr:country=DE), - the sending country is Ethiopia (diplomatic:sending_country=ET) - and the destination countries are Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic (diplomatic:destination_country=DE;PL;SK;CZ). Another example is that many (maybe all?) embassies to the Vatican are actually located in Italy (in many cases separate from the embassies to Italy, also located in Rome), e.g., around: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/41.90247/12.46159 -David -- 턞 L. David Baron http://dbaron.org/ 턂 턢 Mozilla https://www.mozilla.org/ 턂 Before I built a wall I'd ask to know What I was walling in or walling out, And to whom I was like to give offense. - Robert Frost, Mending Wall (1914) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
sent from a phone Am 25.08.2015 um 16:42 schrieb serpens-...@gmx.de: So there is an embassy - located in Berlin (addr:country=DE), - the sending country is Ethiopia (diplomatic:sending_country=ET) - and the destination countries are Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic (diplomatic:destination_country=DE;PL;SK;CZ). So every tag key makes sense (in my eyes). I'm a bit lost in this thread and hope that I'm not repeating what was already said, but there is extensive documentation on this topic in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dembassy and linked pages. It might be disputable whether tagging consulate generals as embassies in the first level tag though. The above mentioned, more verbose suggestions (sending_country and destination_country rather than the documented country) make perfect sense also to me cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
Hi, While I've never tagged any form of diplomatic institution, I agree with the rationale behind your proposal. I do have some suggestions around implementation details. I would argue that you wouldn't need tags specifying what country the diplomatic institution is physically located in: one can (or at least, should!) be able to perform an is_in-type check for this. The country that the diplomatic institute belongs to is definitely useful, though. Additionally, I got diplomatic:sending and diplomatic:destination the other way around to you, so I think that you would need clearer naming. Perhaps diplomatic:country would be more appropriate? To take your example of a Spanish consulate in France, I would amend it to something along these lines: amenity=diplomatic diplomatic=consulate diplomatic:country=ES name=Spanish Consulate addr:country=FR Hope this helps. (: --K On 25 August 2015 at 14:21, serpens-...@gmx.de wrote: Short introduction: Let’s take the tagging scheme „fuel“ for example: amenity=fuel fuel:diesel=yes/no fuel:discount=discount programme … This is logical and consistent: amenity=xy and then a namespace xy:subkey=Tag --- Now to my topic: diplomatic institution – like an embassy, a consulate, ambassador’s residence, honorary consulate, consulate general, delegation, high commission, permanent mission, (permanent) representation etc. We have amenity=embassy since long time. Some of these are tagged on top with the (relatively new) key „diplomatic“ too – a very useful key. --- So I have two suggestions: *FIRST* Change amenity=embassy to amenity=diplomatic (this is more consistent and logical, analog to amenity=fuel etc.) or whatever=diplomatic. But please not the too specific „amenity=embassy“ – how could I explain a new mapper to tag a non-embassy (like a consulate) as „amenity=embassy“. for this, see also proposed features: - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Embassy (and „talk“ page there) --- Besides the tagging of the type of diplomatic institution it is super useful to tag a machine-readable country code (at least for the sending country). This is done so far via country=country code. This is not the best solution because there are very often misunderstandings – which country? The sending country or the destination (hosting) country? Sometimes target=country code is used for the destination (hosting / „targeted“) country. My *SECOND* suggestion: diplomatic:sending=ES --- machine-readable ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code diplomatic:destination=FR --- -- -- It could be also diplomatic:destination_country or diplomatic:target or something like this. The destination country is not always identical with addr:country – see for example the embassy of Ethiopia in Berlin (destination countries: Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic), see http://aethiopien-botschaft.de/ for this, see also my osm blog (about tagging country codes on embassies etc.): - state 2009: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/5734 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/9082 - state 2015: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/28350 --- Because English is not my first language: Dear native speakers, please check if this is correct (sending country / destination country?). Taginfo: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=embassy http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/diplomatic http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/country http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/target Best serpens --- tl;dr (sorry for the long post!): Example (Spanish consulate in France – CURRENT STATE): amenity=embassy--- „oh, look, it’s an embassy!“ diplomatic=consulate --- contradiction: „uhm, wait, no. it’s a consulate.“ country=ES --- often misunderstood as „addr:country“ name=Spanish consulate addr:country=FR … Example (Spanish consulate in France – MY PROPOSAL): amenity=diplomatic --- it’s a diplomatic institution diplomatic:type=consulate --- more specififc: it’s a consulate diplomatic:sending=ES --- machine-readable ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code diplomatic:destination=FR --- -- -- name=Spanish consulate addr:country=FR … ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] diplomatic institutions (with tl;dr)
Short introduction: Let’s take the tagging scheme „fuel“ for example: amenity=fuel fuel:diesel=yes/no fuel:discount=discount programme … This is logical and consistent: amenity=xy and then a namespace xy:subkey=Tag --- Now to my topic: diplomatic institution – like an embassy, a consulate, ambassador’s residence, honorary consulate, consulate general, delegation, high commission, permanent mission, (permanent) representation etc. We have amenity=embassy since long time. Some of these are tagged on top with the (relatively new) key „diplomatic“ too – a very useful key. --- So I have two suggestions: *FIRST* Change amenity=embassy to amenity=diplomatic (this is more consistent and logical, analog to amenity=fuel etc.) or whatever=diplomatic. But please not the too specific „amenity=embassy“ – how could I explain a new mapper to tag a non-embassy (like a consulate) as „amenity=embassy“. for this, see also proposed features: - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Embassy (and „talk“ page there) --- Besides the tagging of the type of diplomatic institution it is super useful to tag a machine-readable country code (at least for the sending country). This is done so far via country=country code. This is not the best solution because there are very often misunderstandings – which country? The sending country or the destination (hosting) country? Sometimes target=country code is used for the destination (hosting / „targeted“) country. My *SECOND* suggestion: diplomatic:sending=ES --- machine-readable ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code diplomatic:destination=FR --- -- -- It could be also diplomatic:destination_country or diplomatic:target or something like this. The destination country is not always identical with addr:country – see for example the embassy of Ethiopia in Berlin (destination countries: Germany, Poland, Slovak Republic and Czech Republic), see http://aethiopien-botschaft.de/ for this, see also my osm blog (about tagging country codes on embassies etc.): - state 2009: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/5734 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/9082 - state 2015: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Serpens/diary/28350 --- Because English is not my first language: Dear native speakers, please check if this is correct (sending country / destination country?). Taginfo: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=embassy http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/diplomatic http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/country http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/target Best serpens --- tl;dr (sorry for the long post!): Example (Spanish consulate in France – CURRENT STATE): amenity=embassy--- „oh, look, it’s an embassy!“ diplomatic=consulate --- contradiction: „uhm, wait, no. it’s a consulate.“ country=ES --- often misunderstood as „addr:country“ name=Spanish consulate addr:country=FR … Example (Spanish consulate in France – MY PROPOSAL): amenity=diplomatic --- it’s a diplomatic institution diplomatic:type=consulate --- more specififc: it’s a consulate diplomatic:sending=ES --- machine-readable ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code diplomatic:destination=FR --- -- -- name=Spanish consulate addr:country=FR … ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
