Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:23 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: glad that this seems agreed (so far). How shall we deal with this change in practical? Simply change the wiki page? Do we need a vote for this? Maybe ask on the local lists? Are there any objections to simply change this in the wiki? The only process for changing tags I can't think of that isn't broken would be to change the wiki to say as of June 2011, this is the best idea anyone's come up with, and this is how I'm going to proceed. If you're tagging similar objects I suggest you follow this scheme, or discuss a better way on the tagging list. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
2011/6/7 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 12:44 AM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: I think it'd make sense to broaden the definition: Sleeping and living quarters provided by an institution for (large numbers of) people associated with that institution. For example, housing for university students. Yeah, I think I like this best. Add typically before large numbers of. +1 We need tags to be somewhat broad and somewhat flexible - a single tag that defines only a very, very specific kind of thing causes pain later on when someone wants to map something that is similar, but not identical. ... +1 glad that this seems agreed (so far). How shall we deal with this change in practical? Simply change the wiki page? Do we need a vote for this? Maybe ask on the local lists? Are there any objections to simply change this in the wiki? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
2011/6/5 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:10 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I have at least 2 problems with this definition: 1. It doesn't seem to be a British English term (at least not with this definition) 2. It seems to exclude the use for monasteries (3. It was introduced without discussion or proposal) I'd agree with this - it's a fairly broad term but with a narrow definition. If it's really restricted to tertiary student accommodation, a name like student_accommodation might have been better. thing is: shall we continue to go with this narrow definition, or would it be better to widen the use case (already tagged objects will not be affected, if the new definition fully comprises them). The dormitories you're trying to tag, are these open to the public? Sometimes they might accomodate guests, but generally they are either halls for the community to sleep in or will have a typology with a corridor and small indivual cells for the monks/nuns to sleep. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
I think it'd make sense to broaden the definition: Sleeping and living quarters provided by an institution for (large numbers of) people associated with that institution. For example, housing for university students. Not sure if the large numbers of helps or hurts, thus the parentheses. This broader definition could also be used for other similar things, like military barracks. To take it a step further, something like residence_hall might be a better term than dormitory, but since it's got hundreds of uses already, just changing the definition might be enough! Brad On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:18 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: 2011/6/5 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:10 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I have at least 2 problems with this definition: 1. It doesn't seem to be a British English term (at least not with this definition) 2. It seems to exclude the use for monasteries (3. It was introduced without discussion or proposal) I'd agree with this - it's a fairly broad term but with a narrow definition. If it's really restricted to tertiary student accommodation, a name like student_accommodation might have been better. thing is: shall we continue to go with this narrow definition, or would it be better to widen the use case (already tagged objects will not be affected, if the new definition fully comprises them). The dormitories you're trying to tag, are these open to the public? Sometimes they might accomodate guests, but generally they are either halls for the community to sleep in or will have a typology with a corridor and small indivual cells for the monks/nuns to sleep. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
2011/6/6 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: I think it'd make sense to broaden the definition: Sleeping and living quarters provided by an institution for (large numbers of) people associated with that institution. For example, housing for university students. in the case of a monastery it is not a quarter but a single building or part of a building. Also large numbers is not correct for many monasteries so I'd prefer to do without. Maybe for my case building=dormitorium would be better suited then the ambiguous dormitory. Not sure if the large numbers of helps or hurts, thus the parentheses. yes, I'd do without. This broader definition could also be used for other similar things, like military barracks. Why? This would introduce another imprecision, I'd either use a very generic building=residential or simply building=barracks for military barracks (they are indeed a proper architectural typology) To take it a step further, something like residence_hall might be a better term than dormitory, but since it's got hundreds of uses already, just changing the definition might be enough! +1, for the student's living space residence_hall would have been a better approach. Maybe we could still switch. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
why not just stick with building=residential then? On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:55 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: 2011/6/6 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: I think it'd make sense to broaden the definition: Sleeping and living quarters provided by an institution for (large numbers of) people associated with that institution. For example, housing for university students. in the case of a monastery it is not a quarter but a single building or part of a building. Also large numbers is not correct for many monasteries so I'd prefer to do without. Maybe for my case building=dormitorium would be better suited then the ambiguous dormitory. Not sure if the large numbers of helps or hurts, thus the parentheses. yes, I'd do without. This broader definition could also be used for other similar things, like military barracks. Why? This would introduce another imprecision, I'd either use a very generic building=residential or simply building=barracks for military barracks (they are indeed a proper architectural typology) To take it a step further, something like residence_hall might be a better term than dormitory, but since it's got hundreds of uses already, just changing the definition might be enough! +1, for the student's living space residence_hall would have been a better approach. Maybe we could still switch. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
2011/6/6 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: why not just stick with building=residential then? actually in the case of a monastery I would prefer dormitory because it is a dedicated place for sleeping, not for living. There are other buildings for other aspects of residential in a monastery from which I would like to separate the dormitorium. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
If you want to split that hair, sleeping_quarters would be a lot more clear in English than dormitorium. From your earlier comment on quarters, it sounds like you might be confused by this term, but quarters can apply to a single structure or part of a structure. (for example, crew's quarters on a ship) On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:20 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/6/6 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: why not just stick with building=residential then? actually in the case of a monastery I would prefer dormitory because it is a dedicated place for sleeping, not for living. There are other buildings for other aspects of residential in a monastery from which I would like to separate the dormitorium. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
2011/6/6 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: If you want to split that hair, sleeping_quarters would be a lot more clear in English than dormitorium. From your earlier comment on quarters, it sounds like you might be confused by this term, but quarters can apply to a single structure or part of a structure. (for example, crew's quarters on a ship) OK, I was not sure about this (that's why I tried to explain how I got it). Seems like dormitorium is not used in English (Oxford dictionary has a reference to it in dormitory, there is also dorter and dortour (ancient) for this part of a monastery, but I couldn't find the latin word in any resource in English). Isn't sleeping quarter then something that only refers to a part of a building, or would you use it for a standalone structure as well? Maybe I should go for dorter if I wanted to be specific? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/6/6 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: If you want to split that hair, sleeping_quarters would be a lot more clear in English than dormitorium. From your earlier comment on quarters, it sounds like you might be confused by this term, but quarters can apply to a single structure or part of a structure. (for example, crew's quarters on a ship) OK, I was not sure about this (that's why I tried to explain how I got it). Seems like dormitorium is not used in English (Oxford dictionary has a reference to it in dormitory, there is also dorter and dortour (ancient) for this part of a monastery, but I couldn't find the latin word in any resource in English). Isn't sleeping quarter then something that only refers to a part of a building, or would you use it for a standalone structure as well? Maybe I should go for dorter if I wanted to be specific? cheers, Martin There can be a separate building for sleeping quarters, or it can be part of a larger building. Use of the term dormitory for university student's sleeping quarters is apparently an American, rather than UK, practice. I don't know if there is an American-vs.-UK difference when applied to monasteries. I lived in a college dormitory in the USA for a year in the mid-1970's; each room had two beds, a shared desk, and a sink. There was a communal bathroom down the hall. The dining hall was in a different building, and all students living in dormitories were required to pay in advance for dining-hall meals at the start of each semester. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 12:44 AM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: I think it'd make sense to broaden the definition: Sleeping and living quarters provided by an institution for (large numbers of) people associated with that institution. For example, housing for university students. Yeah, I think I like this best. Add typically before large numbers of. We need tags to be somewhat broad and somewhat flexible - a single tag that defines only a very, very specific kind of thing causes pain later on when someone wants to map something that is similar, but not identical. IMHO, having one tag that encompasses university halls of residence, military barracks, monastic dormitories, and possibly other places where accommodation of this type is provided, makes sense. (Although I'm seeing some possible distinction between the tag describing only the sleeping quarters, or the whole building). Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] building=dormitory for monasteries?
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:10 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I have at least 2 problems with this definition: 1. It doesn't seem to be a British English term (at least not with this definition) 2. It seems to exclude the use for monasteries (3. It was introduced without discussion or proposal) I'd agree with this - it's a fairly broad term but with a narrow definition. If it's really restricted to tertiary student accommodation, a name like student_accommodation might have been better. The dormitories you're trying to tag, are these open to the public? If so, perhaps amenity=guest_house? If not...seems like a pretty esoteric thing to be tagging, so perhaps building=monastery:dormitory or something. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
