Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
* johnw jo...@mac.com [2014-11-28 13:11 +0900]: On Nov 28, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: the basic scheme doesn't require anything new or unusual in route relation tagging, just care and consistency. I look forward to seeing his RFC page then ^_^ Well, the point is that you can render the shields using existing tagging standards. No RFC necessary. :) That looks really good. Some graphic designers need to remake the shields for icon size (bigger lettering, details ignored), but the system of putting on the roads looks great. As Richard noted, I kind of view my rendering as a proof of concept, and as long as I was going for PoC, why not go for really high fidelity to the roadside signs? If I ever have a decent chunk of time to spend on this again[0], I might look into simplified renderings for a lot of things. My question about multiple relations was about roads that would have more than one “symbol.” Maybe i didn’t see it,b ut all of thsoe roads seemed to have 1 shield apiece, but I’m wondering about roads that would need multiple shields next to each other. That's handled. In Paul Johnson's link: http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#16/36.0448/-95.7380 the Muskogee Turnpike has both the turnpike symbol and the SH-351 symbol. For example, State Highway 163 through downtown San Diego is part of the California highway system (so it gets a green ovalish “163” symbol), and is part of the CA scenic road system - so it would also get the small yellow flower icon as well. If it were tagged appropriately and if I had put in shields for the California scenic road system, it would show up with both shields. Here's something similar in Maryland, where MD-128 carries part of Maryland's Horses and Hounds scenic byway: http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#14/39.4955/-76.7845 As a next step, phil’s work looks great! Thanks! Toby Murray is also due some big thanks; he got this rendering set up on a reasonable public-facing server. [0] I haven't had a lot of time for OSM stuff in general lately, and I've got a backlog of stuff that ought to be done with the renderer (not least of which is a bunch of Ohio county route information that Minh Nguyen's sent me). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
* Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net [2014-11-27 11:09 -0500]: actually, specifying the shield with a URL for an svg file was an older approach. And, I should note, one that I consciously did not use. I believe it was Richard Weait who pointed out that grabbing an arbitrary image, chosen by someone else, off of the Internet and using it in a rendering might not be the greatest idea... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:11 PM, johnw jo...@mac.com wrote: That looks really good. Some graphic designers need to remake the shields for icon size (bigger lettering, details ignored), but the system of putting on the roads looks great. amItheOnlyOneHere.png that thinks, in the vast majority of cases, using the sign type you'd actually see on the highway is useful, particularly for unusual cases? For example, the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority shields are really that hard to read when you're on the highway, so it's good to know you're only expecting a symbol as something recognizable in either case. http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#16/36.0448/-95.7380 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
On 11/28/14 2:26 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:11 PM, johnw jo...@mac.com mailto:jo...@mac.com wrote: That looks really good. Some graphic designers need to remake the shields for icon size (bigger lettering, details ignored), but the system of putting on the roads looks great. amItheOnlyOneHere.png that thinks, in the vast majority of cases, using the sign type you'd actually see on the highway is useful, particularly for unusual cases? For example, the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority shields are really that hard to read when you're on the highway, so it's good to know you're only expecting a symbol as something recognizable in either case. http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#16/36.0448/-95.7380 i'll argue also that it's a rendering choice, and different rendering engine designers may choose differently. right now, what Phil did is basically for demo purposes. there had been talk about maybe deploying it on openstreetmap.us as a us centered version of OSM, but that hasn't happened (and it's been a while). what it demonstrates quite effectively is that we have all the tagging we need for shields right now; we don't need a new tagging proposal, just a lot of hard work building out the relations and tagging them properly. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
I've been trying to understand the issues that keep us from having Pictural Route Shields. The issue is on github [1] but as best as I can understand, it gets down to how we (US) tag routes. From talking to Paul Norman we need to fix the tagging problems before we can get pictural route shields. Toby has a working demo [2] up on the openstreetmap us servers. According to Toby, the US Interstate routes are in good shape. We probably need to work on State and US routes. Not having done much route relationships, except to break a few, I can't offer much support. However with Martijn Exel help using Maproulette we could go after broken relationships. I propose we ask for pictural shields on interstate routes while working on completing the US and State routes. [1] https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/596 [2] http://benzene.osm.osuosl.org/~toby/shields.html Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
Kind of thought this was settled already, even in the strange cases of states with multiple highway networks (Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, to name three). On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: I've been trying to understand the issues that keep us from having Pictural Route Shields. The issue is on github [1] but as best as I can understand, it gets down to how we (US) tag routes. From talking to Paul Norman we need to fix the tagging problems before we can get pictural route shields. Toby has a working demo [2] up on the openstreetmap us servers. According to Toby, the US Interstate routes are in good shape. We probably need to work on State and US routes. Not having done much route relationships, except to break a few, I can't offer much support. However with Martijn Exel help using Maproulette we could go after broken relationships. I propose we ask for pictural shields on interstate routes while working on completing the US and State routes. [1] https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/596 [2] http://benzene.osm.osuosl.org/~toby/shields.html Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
i think this has kind of wandered off topic for tagging, as no new tagging needs to be developed... On 11/28/14 6:39 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: Kind of thought this was settled already, even in the strange cases of states with multiple highway networks (Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, to name three). On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us mailto:cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: I've been trying to understand the issues that keep us from having Pictural Route Shields. The issue is on github [1] but as best as I can understand, it gets down to how we (US) tag routes. From talking to Paul Norman we need to fix the tagging problems before we can get pictural route shields. well, there's also a need to actually get the route shield code into place on whatever rendering engine is deemed appropriate. Toby has a working demo [2] up on the openstreetmap us servers. yes; this is a demo of Phil's solution. i have help a bit with shield configuration files for NYS and tagging of NYS routes. the links i posted the other day are to this demo server. According to Toby, the US Interstate routes are in good shape. We probably need to work on State and US routes. Not having done much route relationships, except to break a few, I can't offer much support. However with Martijn Exel help using Maproulette we could go after broken relationships. a lot of US and state routes are done. in NYS coverage is pretty good; there are some state routes missing, and county routes are mostly done on the east side of the state. I propose we ask for pictural shields on interstate routes while working on completing the US and State routes. there are a couple of elements to consider here. in addition to building relations, there are these other elements: providing appropriate base svg files for shields that don't currently have them. i don't know how many of these are yet to be developed providing configuration files that guide the pre population of the route shields of various types (i did a bit of this for NYS county routes a year or so back). as i understand it, the demo is based on mapnik styles pre carto, and some work would need to be done to move it to carto. what standard do we want to set for deploying shields? the demo displays shields when relations are set up and displays the old style oval ref element otherwise. so there's no technical reason why we can't look at alternate, incremental approaches. i think that knowing that your shields will show up as soon as you build relations could be a powerful motivator. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
On Nov 29, 2014, at 4:26 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 10:11 PM, johnw jo...@mac.com mailto:jo...@mac.com wrote: That looks really good. Some graphic designers need to remake the shields for icon size (bigger lettering, details ignored), but the system of putting on the roads looks great. amItheOnlyOneHere.png that thinks, in the vast majority of cases, using the sign type you'd actually see on the highway is useful, particularly for unusual cases? I’m commenting on the legibility of those icons. When you think of any professional “logo” you see, there are at least 3 different versions of them, and sometimes over 20 or 30, because of the job of the logo to be done at it’s printed size and scale is to be legible and recognizable. Taking a logo made for something the size of a cereal box, and blowing it up to something the size of a billboard would look horrible, and shrinking it down to a business card, or, in this case, an icon, is equally as horrible. I’m not talking pixelation, I’m talking that the design itself changes - larger or bolder lettering, larger or thinner lining, different spacing - all of it changes as you go up or down, especially down in size. And with the current implementation of OSM, pixelation is also a serious issue as well. The goal is to make your brain think it is the same by increasing legibility by reducing detail in a way that doesn’t remove your ability to recognize it immediately. https://foliovision.com/images/2009/01/resize-article-1.jpg https://foliovision.com/images/2009/01/resize-article-1.jpg In this example, look at the detail of the house. there is so much detail on the house that it is a hindrance when scaled down. The other icon is drawn for the size, and details are omitted, but clearly makes it easier to recognize it as “that house”. Almost every single “icon” ever made is is purpose-built for the job of being an icon. Shrinking signage down is still recognizable, but is not a good icon. That’s why most shields are simple shapes with strong border lines. Someone is making generic highway makers on wikipedia already, as at 20px the county names are illegible distractions. The borders are thicker as well, so they show properly at 20px. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CR_21C_jct_wide.svg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CR_21C_jct_wide.svg would be a better choice of icons than the “columbia 21C county” currently in Phil’s test. But since we’re puling the icons from wikipedia (or somewhere similar), and they are straight scale-downs of the larger road signs, there isn’t much we can do about it, unless someone decides to draw up new icons for the hard-to-read ones, such as the completely illegible Taconic State Parkway icon - Is it the bronx river parkway, the Sprain River parkway or what? they al have the same tiny, unreadable crap icon at that level. With such unusually wordy signs, Acronyms might have to be used. Phil’s implementation of putting the icons on the road looks great. Just bringing to people’s attention that icons eventually need to be custom made for this job - as legibility is paramount. Javbw Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
If I recall correctly from a discussion on the Talk-us list a while back, the preferred way in the US is now to specify the shield in a route relation. I did not follow the discussion fully but my impression is that the tagging allowed for custom specification of the shield. It looks like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_relations shows the route relation tagging with symbol=* specifying a url to the shield symbol svg. Perhaps that solution would work for areas outside the US too. On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:48 AM, johnw wrote: I have a question about creating custom road shields, and I know this ties into -carto - but I think it needs tags to work, so I’ll start here in the tagging list. I was thinking of a method for adding custom badges or shields to roads and generic objects - usually country specific things, such as the icons for types of roads, the icons for a police station, etc. This could be used for business icons, but I assume there is some kind of legal and rendering mess for that, so I’m not talking about businesses - just road shields, “emergency”-like icons, etc. if we come up with a tagging solution that refers to a specific shield, then it should be easy for badging to be implemented in -carto and other mapping software, right? Roads: badge:japan=national_road badge:japan=prefectural_road badge:japan=tollway badge:usa=interstate Different standards in regions of countries could be easily implemented as well, along with custom official road tags (like California’s “scenic highway designation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Scenic_Highway_System_(California) ) 70px-California_Scenic_State.svg.png (California Scenic highway sign for state roads) = usa-ca-sr-state By following an easy format badge:country-region-county-city. I doubt there will be *categories* of roads lower than the county level, but you never know. badge:usa-ca=highway badge:usa-ca-sr=state badge:usa-ca-sandiego=county_road Buildings: badge:japan=police This might also work for custom renderings of country specific ways. For example, the Shinkansen system is always traditionally rendered with a black and white striped line that has longer segments than the normal BW striped lines used for the normal national system train lines system (often ~50% longer). Other train lines are rendered with solid black/dark grey lines. this is a common way of differentiating the lines, as the stations on the lines are the major relative navigational landmarks of Japan (since street names and “street numbers” are virtually non-existant). Even most unofficial maps usually follow these guidelines as well, as this one shows. (the shinkansen is striped, but it green on this map, the BW is the national JR system, and solid colors are the different “private” lines - thin for subway, thick for above-ground) http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xUSQcEJEcJ0/UHkSfU7qEPI/PyU/fdAZDbuGTxk/s1600/tokyo+total+train+map.png But currently there is no way to dictate what should be shown, and standard bw rendering in -carto is incorrect for Japan. badge:japan=shinknsen badge:japan=jr_line badge:japan=private_rail Maybe this could be done with the colour=* tag [colour=long_bw] but colour is currently ignored, AFAIK. The uniformity of country to country rendering in -carto because of the lack of a system for taggers to designate which badges/shields to use means we are choosing to have a worse map because it doesn’t conform to expected local customs; or worse, or we are ignoring the confusion brought by these mismatches in renderings (eg, police icons are uniform, road shields are uniform, etc ) as not a problem that needs addressing in OSM directly (ie: let -carto worry about it) I know some of this could be done by regional choices in how -carto renders certain tags ( Maybe a new railway=high_speed_rail in Japan is rendered differently), but it seems that more fine grain control over badges would be a better long term solution for everything. if we make the tags and the proper references in OSM, and then submit the proper bitmap/vector file to -carto (whatever it is that is needed), then wouldn’t this be a good solution to remedy the generic ovals found in the -carto render, and supply even more information to database users? Is limiting it to shields for roads to start with make it somewhat more manageable, or is the whole thing a bad idea from the start? If we’re able to have information on what badge or shield (or whatever is important) associated with an object in OSM, that information can be used by all renderers, right? Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
On 11/27/14 10:39 AM, Tod Fitch wrote: If I recall correctly from a discussion on the Talk-us list a while back, the preferred way in the US is now to specify the shield in a route relation. I did not follow the discussion fully but my impression is that the tagging allowed for custom specification of the shield. It looks like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_relations shows the route relation tagging with symbol=* specifying a url to the shield symbol svg. actually, specifying the shield with a URL for an svg file was an older approach. the approach that Phil Gold uses in his demo is a little different; the shield is not specified in the tagging. it does require route relations. the ref and network tags on the relation are used as indices to tables in the shield render to pick out what shield should be used. for example, for NY 2, the route relation has tags network=US:NY ref=2 and those values are used to select the shield to be rendered. for county routes, the network tagging is extended like this: network=US:NY:Rensselaer ref=130 richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
I think having it on the relation is a great idea, especially since adding the tags to all the road segments sounds like an insane amount of tagging . Is this something that we should ask Phil to create a formal proposal page for the tags, so we can start adding symbol key values to relations? I think the hard thing is to actually get things tagged. I think this could extend also to the basic country amenities where the iconography differs (AKA police shields in the US, the police star in Japan; The Buddhist wheel in India, the Sauwastika in Japan) as well as other relation icons, such as train lines and whatnot. Tokyo metro uses distinct colored circles with a single letter for their lines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metro#List_of_Tokyo_Metro_lines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metro#List_of_Tokyo_Metro_lines. It would be great to add some kind of line symbols to the map to break up the sea of train stations into something more recognizable. The only suggestion I have is that we make it able to handle two or three - as putting the ref in a symbol is good, but we should be able to add a second one as well, to cover different situations where the relation is part of an even larger system (like the California scenic highway system, or similar.) - or would that just be another single icon applied to a different relation (or super-relation) that shares some of the segments, and they just both get their single symbol rendered? In some cases the symbol rendered would not need to use the ref from the road. Javbw On Nov 28, 2014, at 1:09 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 11/27/14 10:39 AM, Tod Fitch wrote: If I recall correctly from a discussion on the Talk-us list a while back, the preferred way in the US is now to specify the shield in a route relation. I did not follow the discussion fully but my impression is that the tagging allowed for custom specification of the shield. It looks like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_relations shows the route relation tagging with symbol=* specifying a url to the shield symbol svg. actually, specifying the shield with a URL for an svg file was an older approach. the approach that Phil Gold uses in his demo is a little different; the shield is not specified in the tagging. it does require route relations. the ref and network tags on the relation are used as indices to tables in the shield render to pick out what shield should be used. for example, for NY 2, the route relation has tags network=US:NY ref=2 and those values are used to select the shield to be rendered. for county routes, the network tagging is extended like this: network=US:NY:Rensselaer ref=130 richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
On 11/27/14 6:48 PM, johnw wrote: I think having it on the relation is a great idea, especially since adding the tags to all the road segments sounds like an insane amount of tagging . Is this something that we should ask Phil to create a formal proposal page for the tags, so we can start adding symbol key values to relations? I think the hard thing is to actually get things tagged. the basic scheme doesn't require anything new or unusual in route relation tagging, just care and consistency. The only suggestion I have is that we make it able to handle two or three - as putting the ref in a symbol is good, but we should be able to add a second one as well, to cover different situations where the relation is part of an even larger system (like the California scenic highway system, or similar.) - or would that just be another single icon applied to a different relation (or super-relation) that shares some of the segments, and they just both get their single symbol rendered? In some cases the symbol rendered would not need to use the ref from the road. well, multiple relations are handled decently in Phil's system. here is an example from Albany Rensselaer NY: http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#14/42.6351/-73.7394 where you can see interstate shields, US highway shields, NY state highway shields, and county route shields (the blue pentagonal shields). note the primary of US 9 US 20; there is a relation for each of those highways and Phil's code handles the case well. more specialized shields are handled as well; here is an example of a NY State parkway system shield on the Taconic State Parkway: http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#15/42.2525/-73.6169 richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
Why not just compose this from the network tag on the relation? I'm almost certain that was one of the motivating factors to going to route relations in the first place. On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 7:48 AM, johnw jo...@mac.com wrote: I have a question about creating custom road shields, and I know this ties into -carto - but I think it needs tags to work, so I’ll start here in the tagging list. I was thinking of a method for adding custom badges or shields to roads and generic objects - usually country specific things, such as the icons for types of roads, the icons for a police station, etc. This could be used for business icons, but I assume there is some kind of legal and rendering mess for that, so I’m not talking about businesses - just road shields, “emergency”-like icons, etc. if we come up with a tagging solution that refers to a specific shield, then it should be easy for badging to be implemented in -carto and other mapping software, right? Roads: badge:japan=national_road badge:japan=prefectural_road badge:japan=tollway badge:usa=interstate Different standards in regions of countries could be easily implemented as well, along with custom official road tags (like California’s “scenic highway designation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Scenic_Highway_System_(California) ) (California Scenic highway sign for state roads) = usa-ca-sr-state By following an easy format badge:country-region-county-city. I doubt there will be *categories* of roads lower than the county level, but you never know. badge:usa-ca=highway badge:usa-ca-sr=state badge:usa-ca-sandiego=county_road Buildings: badge:japan=police This might also work for custom renderings of country specific ways. For example, the Shinkansen system is always traditionally rendered with a black and white striped line that has longer segments than the normal BW striped lines used for the normal national system train lines system (often ~50% longer). Other train lines are rendered with solid black/dark grey lines. this is a common way of differentiating the lines, as the stations on the lines are the major relative navigational landmarks of Japan (since street names and “street numbers” are virtually non-existant). Even most unofficial maps usually follow these guidelines as well, as this one shows. (the shinkansen is striped, but it green on this map, the BW is the national JR system, and solid colors are the different “private” lines - thin for subway, thick for above-ground) http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xUSQcEJEcJ0/UHkSfU7qEPI/PyU/fdAZDbuGTxk/s1600/tokyo+total+train+map.png But currently there is no way to dictate what should be shown, and standard bw rendering in -carto is incorrect for Japan. badge:japan=shinknsen badge:japan=jr_line badge:japan=private_rail Maybe this could be done with the colour=* tag [colour=long_bw] but colour is currently ignored, AFAIK. The uniformity of country to country rendering in -carto because of the lack of a system for taggers to designate which badges/shields to use means we are choosing to have a worse map because it doesn’t conform to expected local customs; or worse, or we are ignoring the confusion brought by these mismatches in renderings (eg, police icons are uniform, road shields are uniform, etc ) as not a problem that needs addressing in OSM directly (ie: let -carto worry about it) I know some of this could be done by regional choices in how -carto renders certain tags ( Maybe a new railway=high_speed_rail in Japan is rendered differently), but it seems that more fine grain control over badges would be a better long term solution for everything. if we make the tags and the proper references in OSM, and then submit the proper bitmap/vector file to -carto (whatever it is that is needed), then wouldn’t this be a good solution to remedy the generic ovals found in the -carto render, and supply even more information to database users? Is limiting it to shields for roads to start with make it somewhat more manageable, or is the whole thing a bad idea from the start? If we’re able to have information on what badge or shield (or whatever is important) associated with an object in OSM, that information can be used by all renderers, right? Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] custom road ref shields
On Nov 28, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 11/27/14 6:48 PM, johnw wrote: I think having it on the relation is a great idea, especially since adding the tags to all the road segments sounds like an insane amount of tagging . Is this something that we should ask Phil to create a formal proposal page for the tags, so we can start adding symbol key values to relations? I think the hard thing is to actually get things tagged. the basic scheme doesn't require anything new or unusual in route relation tagging, just care and consistency. I look forward to seeing his RFC page then ^_^ The only suggestion I have is that we make it able to handle two or three - as putting the ref in a symbol is good, but we should be able to add a second one as well, to cover different situations where the relation is part of an even larger system (like the California scenic highway system, or similar.) - or would that just be another single icon applied to a different relation (or super-relation) that shares some of the segments, and they just both get their single symbol rendered? In some cases the symbol rendered would not need to use the ref from the road. well, multiple relations are handled decently in Phil's system. here is an example from Albany Rensselaer NY: http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#14/42.6351/-73.7394 http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#14/42.6351/-73.7394 where you can see interstate shields, US highway shields, NY state highway shields, and county route shields (the blue pentagonal shields). note the primary of US 9 US 20; there is a relation for each of those highways and Phil's code handles the case well. more specialized shields are handled as well; here is an example of a NY State parkway system shield on the Taconic State Parkway: http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#15/42.2525/-73.6169 http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#15/42.2525/-73.6169 richard That looks really good. Some graphic designers need to remake the shields for icon size (bigger lettering, details ignored), but the system of putting on the roads looks great. My question about multiple relations was about roads that would have more than one “symbol.” Maybe i didn’t see it,b ut all of thsoe roads seemed to have 1 shield apiece, but I’m wondering about roads that would need multiple shields next to each other. For example, State Highway 163 through downtown San Diego is part of the California highway system (so it gets a green ovalish “163” symbol), and is part of the CA scenic road system - so it would also get the small yellow flower icon as well. It is common to find the symbol on printed on city and county maps, so having it display at high zoom levels (~15 and above?) along with the road shield would be a good way to render them. I’m not so interested in the scenic route, but it was an example I could think of where a road is part of another, larger network that is publicly displayed and mapped beyond it’s ref number (it’s not some piece of GIS data hidden from the public, but something openly signed and mapped already by others). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_163 So I suggest there be a method to display additional symbols that have to do with the route’s membership in superrelations in some manner. As a next step, phil’s work looks great! Javbw -- rwe...@averillpark.net mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
