RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

Jaws2018 as it will be called will be important to see what WE features might 
be in the next version.  I suggested a few to the company  we'll have to see if 
and what  gets implemented.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:11 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I am realmly unclear as to what VFO has done since the acquisition. 
Forget about what they did before the "mehrger (that's no longer 
relevant).  While it would be nice for VFO to continue with  production 
of WE, thus selling two "competing" screen readers, it's likely not a 
good business decision, and whether we like it or not, Jaws is more 
popular, which logistically makes more sense.

On 8/22/2017 2:07 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
> pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via 
> Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
> To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> 
> Cc: Loy 
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
> like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of 
> WE and AISquared.
>- Original Message -
>From: Brenda via Talk
>To: Butch Bussen via Talk
>Cc: Brenda
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
>Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> 
>I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes.
>but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more
>control.
> 
>I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them
>Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was
>acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt
>selling out to VFO was in their best interest.
> 
>It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but
>refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too.
>Perhaps not.
> 
>True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but
>for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the
>term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm
>still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they
>are helping me deal with the situation.
> 
>I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
>- I'll
>  move on eventually.
>Brenda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
>> Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had
>> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was
>> this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that
>>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give
>>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes
>>> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though
>>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say
>>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time
>>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context
>>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had
>>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.
>>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the
>>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really
>>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Dennis Long via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
>>> Cc: Dennis Long 
>>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.
>>> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>

Re: contacting Doug.

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I am realmly unclear as to what VFO has done since the acquisition. 
Forget about what they did before the "mehrger (that's no longer 
relevant).  While it would be nice for VFO to continue with  production 
of WE, thus selling two "competing" screen readers, it's likely not a 
good business decision, and whether we like it or not, Jaws is more 
popular, which logistically makes more sense.

On 8/22/2017 2:07 PM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
> pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via 
> Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
> To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> 
> Cc: Loy 
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
> like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of 
> WE and AISquared.
>- Original Message -
>From: Brenda via Talk
>To: Butch Bussen via Talk
>Cc: Brenda
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
>Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
> 
> 
>I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes.
>but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more
>control.
> 
>I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them
>Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was
>acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt
>selling out to VFO was in their best interest.
> 
>It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but
>refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too.
>Perhaps not.
> 
>True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but
>for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the
>term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm
>still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they
>are helping me deal with the situation.
> 
>I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
>- I'll
>  move on eventually.
>Brenda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
>> Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had
>> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was
>> this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that
>>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give
>>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes
>>> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though
>>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say
>>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time
>>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context
>>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had
>>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.
>>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the
>>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really
>>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Dennis Long via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
>>> Cc: Dennis Long 
>>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.
>>> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Reeva Webb
>>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2,
>>> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
>>>
>>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never
>>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls
>>> Of Jericho
>>>
>>> Reeva
>>>
>>> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Andre via Talk]

I know this may sound crazy, but I still feel hurt by the loss of WE. I do 
think this may have been AI Squared's intent all along. I'm sure GW knew it was 
a possibility once they gave up total control of WE and sold the company to AI 
Squared, but felt they didn't have much of a choice any longer than  to take 
that risk.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 PM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

That is my thinking.  There was going to be rewritten braille support. GW knew 
they were falling behind but they didn't have the budget to get ahead of the 
competition while the Lawsuit was in progress.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Brenda via 
Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:00 AM
To: Butch Bussen via Talk
Cc: Brenda
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
control.

I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them Window-eyes as 
VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was acquired. Maybe AI Squared was 
also in bad shape financially and felt selling out to VFO was in their best 
interest.

It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but refused 
them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
Perhaps not.

True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but for me 
Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the term VFO 
Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm still dealing 
with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they are helping me deal 
with the situation.

I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
- I'll
  move on eventually.
Brenda









On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> Yes, that is my understanding as well.  Again, i wonder if gw people had 
> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain.  Again I wonder, was 
> this a i squared's agenda all along?  Only the shadow knows.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
> 
>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
>> that were very much needed.  Once they sold the company, even though 
>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO.  I remember at the time 
>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really 
>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Dennis Long via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
>> Cc: Dennis Long 
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
>> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Reeva Webb
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
>> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
>> Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
>>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Russ Kiehne
>>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
>>> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
>>> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Dennis Long via Talk]

I agree Dan and Doug thought it would help WE.  I don't think they would've 
done it otherwise.  My point with yesterday's message is AI Squared gave them 
an offer they couldn't refuse.  Then at that point Dan and Doug had no say if 
AI squared got bought by VFO They had no say if AI squared said we don't want 
to develop WE anymore.  I'm not saying that would've happened it's an example.  
My point is they had little say.  I do find it interesting David Woo
 Is now  a top person at VFO.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jacobson via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:58 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Steve Jacobson
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that both 
Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give Window-Eyes a 
fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes that were very much 
needed.  Once they sold the company, even though they remained active 
employees, they would not have had a say regarding the purchase of AI Squared 
by VFO.  I remember at the time GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug 
wrote in some context or other about the number of engineers and developers AI 
Squared had compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.  The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really don't think 
there were two mor decent people in this industry.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Cc: Dennis Long 
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Neither did I. The head, Who's name, for your reference is David Woo was the 
head of AI Squared. Now the head is one of the big bosses at VFO.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 11:04 AM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Loy
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of WE 
and AISquared. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brenda via Talk 
  To: Butch Bussen via Talk 
  Cc: Brenda 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
  Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


  I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
  but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
  control.

  I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them 
  Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was 
  acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt 
  selling out to VFO was in their best interest.

  It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but 
  refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
  Perhaps not.

  True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but 
  for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the 
  term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm 
  still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they 
  are helping me deal with the situation.

  I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well 
  - I'll
move on eventually.
  Brenda









  On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had 
  > a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was 
  > this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  > 
  > 
  > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
  > 
  >> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
  >> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
  >> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
  >> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though 
  >> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
  >> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time 
  >> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
  >> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
  >> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
  >> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the 
  >> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really 
  >> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
  >>
  >> Best regards,
  >>
  >> Steve Jacobson
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Dennis Long via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
  >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
  >> Cc: Dennis Long 
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
  >> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Reeva Webb via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
  >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >> Cc: Reeva Webb
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
  >> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
  >>
  >> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
  >> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
  >> Of Jericho
  >>
  >> Reeva
  >>
  >> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
  >> 
  >> wrote:
  >>
  >>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
  >>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
  >>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
  >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>> Cc: Russ Kiehne
  >>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
  >>>
  >>> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
  >>> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
  >>> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Debby Franson via Talk
  >>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
  >>> To: 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Darrell Bowles via Talk]

I agree.  VFo doesn't seem like a family, more like  an evil captain of a 
pirate ship driving his slave crew to the bitter end.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 2:04 PM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List 

Cc: Loy 
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of WE 
and AISquared. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brenda via Talk 
  To: Butch Bussen via Talk 
  Cc: Brenda 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
  Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


  I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
  but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
  control.

  I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them 
  Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was 
  acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt 
  selling out to VFO was in their best interest.

  It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but 
  refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
  Perhaps not.

  True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but 
  for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the 
  term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm 
  still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they 
  are helping me deal with the situation.

  I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well 
  - I'll
move on eventually.
  Brenda









  On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had 
  > a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was 
  > this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  > 
  > 
  > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
  > 
  >> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
  >> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
  >> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
  >> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though 
  >> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
  >> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time 
  >> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
  >> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
  >> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
  >> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the 
  >> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really 
  >> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
  >>
  >> Best regards,
  >>
  >> Steve Jacobson
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Dennis Long via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
  >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
  >> Cc: Dennis Long 
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
  >> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Reeva Webb via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
  >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >> Cc: Reeva Webb
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
  >> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
  >>
  >> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
  >> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
  >> Of Jericho
  >>
  >> Reeva
  >>
  >> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
  >> 
  >> wrote:
  >>
  >>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
  >>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
  >>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
  >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>> Cc: Russ Kiehne
  >>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
  >>>
  >>> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
  >>> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
  >>> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Debby Franson via Talk
  >>> Sent: Sunday, August 

Re: contacting Doug.

[Loy via Talk]

When I heard the head at AISquared speak at the time of the merger, I did not 
like him, I could since he was not being totally honest about the future of WE 
and AISquared. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brenda via Talk 
  To: Butch Bussen via Talk 
  Cc: Brenda 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:59 PM
  Subject: Re: contacting Doug.


  I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
  but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
  control.

  I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them 
  Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was 
  acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt 
  selling out to VFO was in their best interest.

  It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but 
  refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
  Perhaps not.

  True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but 
  for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the 
  term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm 
  still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they 
  are helping me deal with the situation.

  I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well 
  - I'll
move on eventually.
  Brenda









  On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Yes, that is my understanding as well. Again, i wonder if gw people had 
  > a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain. Again I wonder, was 
  > this a i squared's agenda all along? Only the shadow knows.
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  > 
  > 
  > On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
  > 
  >> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
  >> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
  >> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
  >> that were very much needed. Once they sold the company, even though 
  >> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
  >> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO. I remember at the time 
  >> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
  >> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
  >> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
  >> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided the 
  >> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed. I really 
  >> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
  >>
  >> Best regards,
  >>
  >> Steve Jacobson
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Dennis Long via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
  >> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
  >> Cc: Dennis Long 
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
  >> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
  >> Reeva Webb via Talk
  >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
  >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >> Cc: Reeva Webb
  >> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
  >>
  >> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
  >> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
  >>
  >> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
  >> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
  >> Of Jericho
  >>
  >> Reeva
  >>
  >> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
  >> 
  >> wrote:
  >>
  >>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
  >>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
  >>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
  >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>> Cc: Russ Kiehne
  >>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
  >>>
  >>> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
  >>> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
  >>> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Debby Franson via Talk
  >>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
  >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>> Cc: Debby Franson
  >>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
  >>>
  >>> Hi Loy!
  >>>
  >>> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
  >>> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the
  >>> current day.
  >>>
  >>> Debby
  >>>
  >>> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
   This would not be a air comparison 

RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Yeah I know what you mean, and to think JAWS is still perceived as the #1
product in agencies for the blind.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva
Webb via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:20 AM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

Believe me i tried. I sent multiple messages through the contact form on the
vfo website. Sent emails to several people that were higher up/i thought
were still at ai2 and either got nothing, canned response, email back that
the person i was trying to contact was no longer there or my email got
forwarded to customer service. I did bring it up in a thread on list that
dan was on but i don't think it was seen. I also tried emailing dan directly
and it bounced every time.  At this point i'm done. Like i said using my we
version of fusion, learning nvda better slowly, have android devices at my
side and waiting for google to hopefully put out a updated chromebook pixel.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 22, 2017 11:42 AM, "Brenda via Talk" 
wrote:

> HeyReeva,
>
> I think you should consider taking your concern up the VFO ladder to 
> someone above the people that answer the phone.  Sure seems like 
> Fusion users should have gotten the same type of offer as W-E users 
> did.  Maybe if you dig around you can find someone higher up the food
chain to appeal to.
>
> It doesn't hurt to try, even if only for the principle of it.
> Brenda
>
> On 8/22/2017 12:34 AM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
>
>> For whatever stupid reason, people like me who bought the we based 
>> zoomtext fusion got no discount at all on uprading. Despite the fact 
>> i'm in the same boat as just we users. I'm not even saying  we should 
>> gotten free upgrades.
>> Sorry y'all but this makes me angry. I would've thought about going 
>> to the jaws based version of fusion if they would've been like ok, 
>> instead of
>> $200
>> for upgrade and $200 for the sma. We'll give y'all a break and do $75 
>> upgrade and $100 for sma. Hell, even if they would've given we fusion 
>> users blindness convention pricing without having to go to the 
>> conventions.  I
>> might have done that but no.   I will be using my we version of zt
fusion,
>> slowly learn nvda better and wait to see if google puts out a new 
>> chromebook pixel and buy that or another chromebook.
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" 
>> Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2017 11:24 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" < 
>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah and you know what is ironic about all of this? When Magic 12 
>> came
>>> out,
>>> Freedom Scientific issued a competitive upgrade plan so that people 
>>> with Zoom text could upgrade to Magic for about $100 or so.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> Tom Kingston via Talk
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 11:57 PM
>>> To: Sky Mundell via Talk
>>> Cc: Tom Kingston
>>> Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>>
>>> That depends on the deal with APH. But they'll probably just 
>>> eventually replace Magic with ZoomText. Just like with Window-Eyes 
>>> there's no practical reason for them to maintain two magnifiers. 
>>> Magic is probably already on death row allowing only critical 
>>> updates while ZoomText is actively developed.
>>> Regards,
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/21/2017 2:06 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>>>
 Oh Sure. That's right. But what about the Magic and JAWS student

>>> editions?
>>>
 Magic was used in Colombia with JAWS,and APH and FS launched 
 student copies of JAWS and Magic.

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
 Tom Kingston via Talk
 Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:47 PM
 To: Sky Mundell via Talk
 Cc: Tom Kingston
 Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

 VFO bought AI Squared for two reasons.
 1. To replace their useless Magic magnifier with the best selling

>>> ZoomText.
>>>
 2. To kill their competition in the screen reading world, Window-Eyes.
 End of story.
 Regards,
 Tom


 On 8/21/2017 12:14 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

> Because their still needs to be improvements made to Window-Eyes, 
> for
>
 example, Edge support, it needs rewritten braille support, it needs 
 touchscreen support, it needs this and that.

>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf 
> Of Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:12 PM

Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

[Reeva Webb via Talk]

Believe me i tried. I sent multiple messages through the contact form on
the vfo website. Sent emails to several people that were higher up/i
thought were still at ai2 and either got nothing, canned response, email
back that the person i was trying to contact was no longer there or my
email got forwarded to customer service. I did bring it up in a thread on
list that dan was on but i don't think it was seen. I also tried emailing
dan directly and it bounced every time.  At this point i'm done. Like i
said using my we version of fusion, learning nvda better slowly, have
android devices at my side and waiting for google to hopefully put out a
updated chromebook pixel.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 22, 2017 11:42 AM, "Brenda via Talk" 
wrote:

> HeyReeva,
>
> I think you should consider taking your concern up the VFO ladder to
> someone above the people that answer the phone.  Sure seems like Fusion
> users should have gotten the same type of offer as W-E users did.  Maybe if
> you dig around you can find someone higher up the food chain to appeal to.
>
> It doesn't hurt to try, even if only for the principle of it.
> Brenda
>
> On 8/22/2017 12:34 AM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
>
>> For whatever stupid reason, people like me who bought the we based
>> zoomtext
>> fusion got no discount at all on uprading. Despite the fact i'm in the
>> same
>> boat as just we users. I'm not even saying  we should gotten free
>> upgrades.
>> Sorry y'all but this makes me angry. I would've thought about going to the
>> jaws based version of fusion if they would've been like ok, instead of
>> $200
>> for upgrade and $200 for the sma. We'll give y'all a break and do $75
>> upgrade and $100 for sma. Hell, even if they would've given we fusion
>> users
>> blindness convention pricing without having to go to the conventions.  I
>> might have done that but no.   I will be using my we version of zt fusion,
>> slowly learn nvda better and wait to see if google puts out a new
>> chromebook pixel and buy that or another chromebook.
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2017 11:24 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" <
>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah and you know what is ironic about all of this? When Magic 12 came
>>> out,
>>> Freedom Scientific issued a competitive upgrade plan so that people with
>>> Zoom text could upgrade to Magic for about $100 or so.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Tom
>>> Kingston via Talk
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 11:57 PM
>>> To: Sky Mundell via Talk
>>> Cc: Tom Kingston
>>> Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>>>
>>> That depends on the deal with APH. But they'll probably just eventually
>>> replace Magic with ZoomText. Just like with Window-Eyes there's no
>>> practical
>>> reason for them to maintain two magnifiers. Magic is probably already on
>>> death row allowing only critical updates while ZoomText is actively
>>> developed.
>>> Regards,
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/21/2017 2:06 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>>>
 Oh Sure. That's right. But what about the Magic and JAWS student

>>> editions?
>>>
 Magic was used in Colombia with JAWS,and APH and FS launched student
 copies of JAWS and Magic.

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
 Tom Kingston via Talk
 Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:47 PM
 To: Sky Mundell via Talk
 Cc: Tom Kingston
 Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

 VFO bought AI Squared for two reasons.
 1. To replace their useless Magic magnifier with the best selling

>>> ZoomText.
>>>
 2. To kill their competition in the screen reading world, Window-Eyes.
 End of story.
 Regards,
 Tom


 On 8/21/2017 12:14 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

> Because their still needs to be improvements made to Window-Eyes, for
>
 example, Edge support, it needs rewritten braille support, it needs
 touchscreen support, it needs this and that.

>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
> Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:12 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Nick Sarames
> Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume
>
> Why would they?
>
> On 8/20/2017 9:22 PM, Debby Franson via Talk wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I wonder if VFO would ever sell the code.
>>
>> Debby
>>
>> At 12:37 PM 8/20/2017, Dennis Long via Talk wrote
>>
>>> They won't give code up.  Come on think 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

That is my thinking.  There was going to be rewritten braille support. GW knew 
they were falling behind but they didn't have the budget to get ahead of the 
competition while the Lawsuit was in progress.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Brenda via 
Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:00 AM
To: Butch Bussen via Talk
Cc: Brenda
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
control.

I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them Window-eyes as 
VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was acquired. Maybe AI Squared was 
also in bad shape financially and felt selling out to VFO was in their best 
interest.

It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but refused 
them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
Perhaps not.

True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but for me 
Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the term VFO 
Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm still dealing 
with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they are helping me deal 
with the situation.

I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well
- I'll
  move on eventually.
Brenda









On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> Yes, that is my understanding as well.  Again, i wonder if gw people had 
> a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain.  Again I wonder, was 
> this a i squared's agenda all along?  Only the shadow knows.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
> 
>> It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
>> both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
>> Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
>> that were very much needed.  Once they sold the company, even though 
>> they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
>> regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO.  I remember at the time 
>> GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
>> or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
>> compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
>> The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
>> new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really 
>> don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Dennis Long via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
>> Cc: Dennis Long 
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
>> Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Reeva Webb
>> Subject: RE: contacting Doug.
>>
>> Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
>> y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
>> promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
>> Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Russ Kiehne via Talk
>>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Russ Kiehne
>>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
>>> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
>>> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Debby Franson via Talk
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: Debby Franson
>>> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>>>
>>> Hi Loy!
>>>
>>> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
>>> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the
>>> current day.
>>>
>>> Debby
>>>
>>> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
 This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much 
 faster
 than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ 
 Kiehne
 

Re: contacting Doug.

[Brenda via Talk]

I too was hopeful the AI Squared merge would be good for Window-eyes. 
but, the merge was lopsided and seems more like a sale as GW had no more 
control.


I always thought AI Squared was directed by VFO to bring them 
Window-eyes as VFO didn't absorb AI Squared until after W-e was 
acquired. Maybe AI Squared was also in bad shape financially and felt 
selling out to VFO was in their best interest.


It is possible doug, Dan and Aaron were offered positions at VFO but 
refused them. Perhaps this was the same for other GW employees too. 
Perhaps not.


True, technology changes, and products/programs get discontinued, but 
for me Window-eyes was more than just another program. I have heard the 
term VFO Family" but VFO is not my family - GW Micro was and is and I'm 
still dealing with the loss.  some may not like these posts, but they 
are helping me deal with the situation.


I should have written this post using jaws to help me practice - oh well 
- I'll

 move on eventually.
Brenda









On 8/22/2017 12:04 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
Yes, that is my understanding as well.  Again, i wonder if gw people had 
a clue a i squared would sell them down the drain.  Again I wonder, was 
this a i squared's agenda all along?  Only the shadow knows.

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that 
both Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give 
Window-Eyes a fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes 
that were very much needed.  Once they sold the company, even though 
they remained active employees, they would not have had a say 
regarding the purchase of AI Squared by VFO.  I remember at the time 
GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug wrote in some context 
or other about the number of engineers and developers AI Squared had 
compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism there.  
The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really 
don't think there were two mor decent people in this industry.


Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
Dennis Long via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Cc: Dennis Long 
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  
Remember everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.



-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
Reeva Webb via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, 
y'all shouldn't have gotten with the shark.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
Of Jericho


Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 


wrote:


And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Russ Kiehne
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

    You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.

-Original Message-
From: Debby Franson via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the
current day.

Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much 
faster
than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ 
Kiehne

via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   
Check
this out from times past!   Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   
From:

Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling

Windows"

Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in

the
Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition 
among

Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did 
with its

data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
screen reader according to its criteria, I did 

Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

[Brenda via Talk]

HeyReeva,

I think you should consider taking your concern up the VFO ladder to 
someone above the people that answer the phone.  Sure seems like Fusion 
users should have gotten the same type of offer as W-E users did.  Maybe 
if you dig around you can find someone higher up the food chain to 
appeal to.


It doesn't hurt to try, even if only for the principle of it.
Brenda

On 8/22/2017 12:34 AM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:

For whatever stupid reason, people like me who bought the we based zoomtext
fusion got no discount at all on uprading. Despite the fact i'm in the same
boat as just we users. I'm not even saying  we should gotten free upgrades.
Sorry y'all but this makes me angry. I would've thought about going to the
jaws based version of fusion if they would've been like ok, instead of $200
for upgrade and $200 for the sma. We'll give y'all a break and do $75
upgrade and $100 for sma. Hell, even if they would've given we fusion users
blindness convention pricing without having to go to the conventions.  I
might have done that but no.   I will be using my we version of zt fusion,
slowly learn nvda better and wait to see if google puts out a new
chromebook pixel and buy that or another chromebook.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:24 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
wrote:


Yeah and you know what is ironic about all of this? When Magic 12 came out,
Freedom Scientific issued a competitive upgrade plan so that people with
Zoom text could upgrade to Magic for about $100 or so.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Kingston via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 11:57 PM
To: Sky Mundell via Talk
Cc: Tom Kingston
Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

That depends on the deal with APH. But they'll probably just eventually
replace Magic with ZoomText. Just like with Window-Eyes there's no
practical
reason for them to maintain two magnifiers. Magic is probably already on
death row allowing only critical updates while ZoomText is actively
developed.
Regards,
Tom


On 8/21/2017 2:06 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Oh Sure. That's right. But what about the Magic and JAWS student

editions?

Magic was used in Colombia with JAWS,and APH and FS launched student
copies of JAWS and Magic.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Tom Kingston via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:47 PM
To: Sky Mundell via Talk
Cc: Tom Kingston
Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

VFO bought AI Squared for two reasons.
1. To replace their useless Magic magnifier with the best selling

ZoomText.

2. To kill their competition in the screen reading world, Window-Eyes.
End of story.
Regards,
Tom


On 8/21/2017 12:14 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Because their still needs to be improvements made to Window-Eyes, for

example, Edge support, it needs rewritten braille support, it needs
touchscreen support, it needs this and that.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:12 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Nick Sarames
Subject: Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

Why would they?

On 8/20/2017 9:22 PM, Debby Franson via Talk wrote:

Hi!

I wonder if VFO would ever sell the code.

Debby

At 12:37 PM 8/20/2017, Dennis Long via Talk wrote

They won't give code up.  Come on think that through.  What company
do you know that gives code that was a product that was sold for
profit to just give it away.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Sky Mundell via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 1:19 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

They might give the Window-Eyes code up to a company like Humanware.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Long via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:04 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Dennis Long
Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

I'm pretty sure they own the code.  I say this for a few reasons 1
they bought AI Squared and their products.  What are their products?
WE is one of those.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Sky Mundell via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:46 PM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Sky Mundell
Subject: RE: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

I hope it does VFO didn't say anything about owning the Window-Eyes
code or anything.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Olusegun
-- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Sunday, 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Andre via Talk]

I agree. Doug and Dan are awesome. We can add Aaron into that mix as well. It's 
all a rotten shame for our community.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jacobson via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 7:59 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Cc: Steve Jacobson
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that both 
Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give Window-Eyes a 
fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes that were very much 
needed.  Once they sold the company, even though they remained active 
employees, they would not have had a say regarding the purchase of AI Squared 
by VFO.  I remember at the time GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug 
wrote in some context or other about the number of engineers and developers AI 
Squared had compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.  The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really don't think 
there were two mor decent people in this industry.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Cc: Dennis Long 
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Steve, and all,

I just want to say that, although I have chosen not to participate in this and 
related threads about the history of Window-Eyes, I sincerely enjoy reading 
these posts, as it keeps Window-Eyes alive for us all.
Yes, I continue to use Window-Eyes, since it is still perfectly functional, 
but, more than this, continuing to talk about its history goes very far indeed 
to bless the past and future, if I may be permitted to use spiritual language.
I guess what I'm saying is that, in my view, there's more than meets the eye, 
or ear, when we talk about technology; There is what this technology means to 
our lives, and there's no price tag or mathematical equation which can limit it.

Thanks,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jacobson via Talk
Sent: August 22, 2017 8:59 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Cc: Steve Jacobson 
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that both 
Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give Window-Eyes a 
fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes that were very much 
needed.  Once they sold the company, even though they remained active 
employees, they would not have had a say regarding the purchase of AI Squared 
by VFO.  I remember at the time GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug 
wrote in some context or other about the number of engineers and developers AI 
Squared had compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.  The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really don't think 
there were two mor decent people in this industry.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Cc: Dennis Long 
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   

the inauguration of Window-eyes

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi:
I remember when Window-eyes was first announced.  It was at Closing
The Gap in minneapolis Minnesota in Odctober of that year and I was
there for the announcement.  I even got a guided tour of the first
release in the GW Midcro booth.  Either Doug or Dan, whichever one
gave me a tour asked me how I liked it and I pointed out a key
conflict with a Windows hotkey.
I was still using JAWS then and it was made by HenterJoyce, before
they got eaten up by Freedom Scientific.  Funny how history repeats
itself.

Kevin Huber

On 8/16/17, michael fridey via Talk  wrote:
> Hi guys i sent Doug an email and got the responce below saying he does
> not work for VFO any more.
>
> Its a bit sad he did not get to say good by on the list.
>
> Doug was a good person and did his best for us Window Eyes users.
>
> Cheers michael.
>
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:  FW: helo Doug from michael.
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:08:39 +
> From: Julie Moore 
> To:   michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au 
>
>
>
> Hello Michael,
>
> Doug Geoffray no longer works for VFO.  His emails are being forwarded
> to me, and unfortunately, I do not have a forwarding address for him.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Julie
>
> *Julie Moore*
>
> *VFO™ *| Manager, Enterprise Compliance
>
> 11800 31^st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716
>
> *T*800-444-4443 x6112 *F* 802-362-1670
>
> jmo...@vfogroup.com 
>
> www.vfo-group.com 
>
> *From:*michael's emails [mailto:michaelandjea...@aapt.net.au]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:51 AM
> *To:* Doug Geoffray  >
> *Subject:* helo Doug from michael.
>
> Hi Doug i was wondering if your still around and working.
>
> cheers Michael.
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/huber.kevin7%40gmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

RE: contacting Doug.

[Steve Jacobson via Talk]

It is possible I am misinterpreting this note, but I really think that both 
Doug and Dan thought that the merger with AI Squared would give Window-Eyes a 
fresh burst of resources to get over the hump on changes that were very much 
needed.  Once they sold the company, even though they remained active 
employees, they would not have had a say regarding the purchase of AI Squared 
by VFO.  I remember at the time GW Micro was purchased by AI Squared, that Doug 
wrote in some context or other about the number of engineers and developers AI 
Squared had compared to GW Micro, and I think there was some real optimism 
there.  The idea of the Fusion product with Window-Eyes may have provided  the 
new market and exposure that Window-Eyes really needed.  I really don't think 
there were two mor decent people in this industry.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson
 
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Long 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:00 AM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Cc: Dennis Long 
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.  


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night 
has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
wrote:

> And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Russ Kiehne
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
> It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.  
> Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Debby Franson via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Debby Franson
> Subject: Re: contacting Doug.
>
> Hi Loy!
>
> No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this 
> article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the 
> current day.
>
> Debby
>
> At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote
> >This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
> >than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
> >via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
> >Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
> >this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
> >Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling
> Windows"
> >Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in
> the
> >Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
> >Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
> >March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
> >data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
> >screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
> >interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,
> 1
> >for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
> >observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
> >WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
> >total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
> >accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
> >points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
> >accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
> >.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
> >with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
> >Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
> >failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
> >points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
> >accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
> >points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
> >Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed 

RE: contacting Doug.

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

As you bow to your statue of jaws, you are over simplifying the story a 
bit.  Merging with a i squared was not the end of we.  I was told one of 
the reasons they merged was so the company could offer a very good 
screen reader and a good large print program, Seemed like a good fit for 
both, and a good idea at the time.  The rest of this is only speculation 
on my part.  If Doug had known what a i squared was going to do, I 
wonder if the merger would have happened.  I've known Doug since 1983 
and you can't put a price on the the work and dedication he put into 
vocal-eyes and window-eyes.  It couldn't have been easy to see your 
life's work just flushed down the drain.  Doug handled all of this much 
better than I ever could have.  Of course there are financial reasons 
and the law suit certainly hurt gw micro.  I don't recall the guys name, 
but I read somewhere that the head of a squared is now a big wig at vfo.
 Again, above is speculation on my part, but does make one wonder.  Was 
this a squared's  plan all along?

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue, 22 Aug 2017, Dennis Long via 
Talk wrote:



When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night has 
just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
wrote:


And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Russ Kiehne
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.

-Original Message-
From: Debby Franson via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the
current day.

Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote

This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling

Windows"

Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in

the

Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,

1

for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window

Bridge

and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
rapidly   

Re: contacting Doug.

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

You have no idea what you're talking about! Life isn't always so simple.

On 8/22/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

When GW sold out to AI squared that was effectively the end of WE.  Remember 
everyone has their price Dan and Doug got there price.


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Reeva Webb 
via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: RE: contacting Doug.

Watch fs make zt bloated and terrible with yearly updates. Oh, ai2, y'all 
shouldn't have gotten with the shark.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised night has 
just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Aug 21, 2017 11:22 AM, "Sky Mundell via Talk" 
wrote:


And Zoomtext will be getting yearly updates, and so on like JAWS does.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-boun...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of
Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Russ Kiehne
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

 You are correct, the article was posted for historical purposes.
It's interesting to see how many screen readers we had back then.
Jaws wonthe the battle and now is king of the hill.

-Original Message-
From: Debby Franson via Talk
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:50 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Debby Franson
Subject: Re: contacting Doug.

Hi Loy!

No, I agree that the article would not be fair today, but I think this
article was posted for historical purposes, not anything about the
current day.

Debby

At 10:25 AM 8/19/2017, Loy via Talk wrote

This would not be a air comparison now, Window Eyes progressed much faster
than JAWS since 1996.   - Original Message -   From: Russ Kiehne
via Talk   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List   Cc: Russ Kiehne   Sent:
Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:42 AM   Subject: Re: contacting Doug.   Check
this out from times past!   Date:Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:26 EDT   From:
Jamal Mazrui <7.1...@compuserve.com>   Subject: CSUN "Dueling

Windows"

Sensory Access Foundation has published a "Dueling Windows"   report in

the

Spring 1996 issue of Access Review.  It   summarizes a competition among
Windows screen readers that was   held at the 1996 CSUN conference in
March.  I am prefacing the   article with some tabulations I did with its
data.   Since the article does not quantify the performance of each
screen reader according to its criteria, I did such an analysis   for the
interest of readers.  I assigned a value of 2 for   accomplishing a task,

1

for accomplishing it with difficulty, and   0 for failing it.  If anyone
observes an error in my arithmetic,   please let me know.   Artic's
WinVision   accomplished: 7   accomplished with difficulty: 2   failed: 6
total points: 16   average: 1.06   Berkeley's OutSpoken for Windows
accomplished: 9   accomplished with difficulty: 5   failed: 1   total
points: 23   average: 1.53   GW Micro's Window-Eyes   accomplished: 5
accomplished with difficulty: 1   failed: 9   total points: 11   average:
.73   Henter-Joyce's JAWS for Windows   accomplished: 13   accomplished
with difficulty: 1   failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   IBM's
Screen Reader/2   accomplished: 13   accomplished with difficulty: 1
failed: 1   total points: 27   average: 1.8   Syntha-Voice's Window Bridge
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 4   failed: 6   total
points: 14   average: .93   TeleSensory's Screen Power for Windows
accomplished: 5   accomplished with difficulty: 7   failed: 3   total
points: 17   average: 1.13   Based solely on this analysis, JAWS for
Windows and Screen   Reader/2 were tied for top.  They were followed by
OutSpoken for   Windows, Screen Power for Windows, WinVision, Window

Bridge

and Window-Eyes.   Let me remind readers that Windows access products are
rapidly   developing so that new versions might lead to significantly
different results today.  In fact, some developers have already   made
enhancements to address problems encountered at this
competition.   --Dueling Windows:  An Overviewby
Kenneth Frasse(re-printed with permission of Sensory Access
Foundationfrom Access Review, Vol. I, No. 1, Spring 1996)
Abstract   In March, at the CSUN International Conference on Technology

and

Persons with Disabilities held in Los Angeles, California, Mark   Nelson

of

the Foundation for Blind Children hosted a pre-conference   seminar called
"Dueling Windows".  This seminar attempted to   contrast and compare
graphical user interface (GUI) screen review   software in applications

for

Windows.  The format of the seminar   was to pose identical tasks to each
of the vendors in alternating   order and have the vendors demonstrate the
ability of their   products to perform the specified tasks.  Since SAF

does

not sell,