RE: fire fox
Hi! The biggest advantage of using Chrome, is being able to press: Alt+F to open one menu, and navigate down that one menu. You can open sub menus with the right arrow. It is so much faster with downloading large files, and streaming video. You will get used to Chrome and love it. If you have any questions, please ask. Also, I wrote a text tutorial on using Chrome. If you need it, just let me know! David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Don Smith via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 11:03 PM To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Cc: Don Smith Subject: RE: fire fox I installed google chrome, seems to work ok, takes a bit getting use to it Don ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jesusloves1966%40gmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: fire fox
I installed google chrome, seems to work ok, takes a bit getting use to it Don ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
Using win7/64 with ff55?+- I have not been forced to upgrade to FF56. I am using jaws now in case that happens. It is taking some getting used to for commands like reading the page with insetty down arrow in jaws and escape to exit edit mode but jaws is acceptable for what I need it to do. I even took a survey where I found jaws read more stuff than Window-eyes did when it came to rating something from 1 (not acceptable) to 10 very satisfied etc. I will probably let FF update soon. I am very sorry that I'm being forced into learning jaws, but it will probably be a good thing in the longrun. brenda n 10/7/2017 6:01 AM, David via Talk wrote: I do not want to start a new lengthy arguing over accessibility issues. Yet, a few days ago, we had a discussion running here, as to the latest version of Firefox - 56 - which some users had experienced issues with. I did not have any intention in running into accessibility issues, and hence told my Firefox never to update. It is done under tools, Options, Advanced, and choose the update tab. Nevertheless, this morning when starting my Firefox, it still updated itself. I got the message on the screen, that the update was taking place, and though I could say a few things about a setting in the Firefox options, which apparently is nothing but useless - I had no choice but to let the update complete itself. My reasoning was that first it insisted on upgrading, I could always roll it back afterwards. When the upgrading was finished, I checked under Tools, Help, About - and the current installation says Firefox 56.0, 32bit. I now have used it for a couple of hours, browsing around, and do see no trouble with this version of Firefox, along with the latest (and last) version of WinEyes, that is, version 9.5.4. I do recall there has been a few comments about the 64bit version of Firefox from the past. And hence i was wondering if the users who told us not to update to the latest Firefox, due to their accessibility issues, would happen to be running the 64bit version. As an alternative, in attempting to see a reason for some experiencing trouble in latest version, I do wonder if there could be a focusing issue. Would any of you, who initially reported the loss of accessibility in Firefox 56, maybe want to try the following. 1. Open Firefox, and go to any website. 2. Press Alt-D, as in Delta. 3. Press F6. 4. Try navigating the website. Are you still unable to perform any action on the page? If so, check under Help/About,and see if you are running 64- or 32bit version. Please note, a 32bit software can be run perfectly well on a 64bit machine, but you cannot run a 64bit software on a 32bit computer. Most computers now aday, are 64bit machines, and yet, often you are encouraged to run the 32bit software, due to the 64bit technology being more vulnerable for technical issues. This is no attempt in advicing anyone, in their choice of browser or version. I am just curious why some have reported their systems facing issues, whereas my system had none. Could it even be there was something going wrong in your updating process? Or, could it be due to some of the add-ons you have installed under Firefox, and which no longer are up-to-date, due to the new add-on policy of the Mozilla group? Try starting your Firefox with all Add-ons disabled, and see if that solves any issues. Really, it would be bad, should a number of users ditch an otherwise good browser, or abstain from updating, due to some misunderstood accessibility issues. That's why, I decided to report my findings, hoping to hear from others who could shed further light on what possibly could cause issues for some. Perhaps we even could help them solve their issues, and have them back up running the Firefox browser again; even with last version of WinEyes. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/bjnite%40windstream.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
That's encouraging. I'll keep trying to figure this out. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+richard.petty=earthlink@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Evan Reese via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 12:03 PM To: Lloyd Rasmussen; Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: Evan Reese Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility That was me, using WE 8.4 on a Windows 7 laptop with Firefox 56.0 32 bit. I just had it open and went to three different sites, including the BARD site. It works the same as always for me. Evan -Original Message- From: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 9:32 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility I am puzzled that someone reported that Firefox 56 worked with Win-Eyes 8.4. It doesn't work for me with Win-Eyes 9.5.4. David, Browse mode is available, but you get nothing but dings when you move the arrow keys, and no output when you use the Tab or shift-Tab key. You can read the menus. You can read anything you can tab to while browse mode is turned off. Sometimes Firefox.set doesn't seem to load, but even when it does, the situation remains the same. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, but the 32-bit version of Firefox is what wants to run. I believe I tried disabling add-ons also, with no effect. I get most of the same results on a different computer running Windows 10. And even if we didn't have trouble with Firefox version 56, we are pretty much guaranteed to have trouble with FF 57 which comes out next month. I like Firefox, but if I'm going to continue to use it, it will have to be with NVDA, JAWS or Narrator for Windows 10. Everyone should read the latest blog from Marco Zehe to understand more of what is going on: https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/ Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:14 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: David Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility Pure guessing here. When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If so, Go to Help, and scroll down to Start with add-ons disabled, and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read more here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe- mode Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu. 1. Press Win-R, and type: Firefox -safe-mode (please notice the dashes). 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window. I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a search on the net is worth. I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things: 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying: Browse Mode Is Not Available. 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it should say Firefox.set. To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like: Firefox Message? If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window. Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up? Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better mood. Smiles. For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain setups. This could be worth reporting
Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
That was me, using WE 8.4 on a Windows 7 laptop with Firefox 56.0 32 bit. I just had it open and went to three different sites, including the BARD site. It works the same as always for me. Evan -Original Message- From: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 9:32 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility I am puzzled that someone reported that Firefox 56 worked with Win-Eyes 8.4. It doesn't work for me with Win-Eyes 9.5.4. David, Browse mode is available, but you get nothing but dings when you move the arrow keys, and no output when you use the Tab or shift-Tab key. You can read the menus. You can read anything you can tab to while browse mode is turned off. Sometimes Firefox.set doesn't seem to load, but even when it does, the situation remains the same. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, but the 32-bit version of Firefox is what wants to run. I believe I tried disabling add-ons also, with no effect. I get most of the same results on a different computer running Windows 10. And even if we didn't have trouble with Firefox version 56, we are pretty much guaranteed to have trouble with FF 57 which comes out next month. I like Firefox, but if I'm going to continue to use it, it will have to be with NVDA, JAWS or Narrator for Windows 10. Everyone should read the latest blog from Marco Zehe to understand more of what is going on: https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/ Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:14 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: David Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility Pure guessing here. When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If so, Go to Help, and scroll down to Start with add-ons disabled, and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read more here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu. 1. Press Win-R, and type: Firefox -safe-mode (please notice the dashes). 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window. I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a search on the net is worth. I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things: 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying: Browse Mode Is Not Available. 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it should say Firefox.set. To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like: Firefox Message? If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window. Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up? Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better mood. Smiles. For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue. Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not have any issues. Be as it might. Apparently there must be
RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
So, should we read all of this to mean the latest version of Firefox has now abandoned the traditional means of Web page and screen reader communication? -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+richard.petty=earthlink@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:33 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility I am puzzled that someone reported that Firefox 56 worked with Win-Eyes 8.4. It doesn't work for me with Win-Eyes 9.5.4. David, Browse mode is available, but you get nothing but dings when you move the arrow keys, and no output when you use the Tab or shift-Tab key. You can read the menus. You can read anything you can tab to while browse mode is turned off. Sometimes Firefox.set doesn't seem to load, but even when it does, the situation remains the same. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, but the 32-bit version of Firefox is what wants to run. I believe I tried disabling add-ons also, with no effect. I get most of the same results on a different computer running Windows 10. And even if we didn't have trouble with Firefox version 56, we are pretty much guaranteed to have trouble with FF 57 which comes out next month. I like Firefox, but if I'm going to continue to use it, it will have to be with NVDA, JAWS or Narrator for Windows 10. Everyone should read the latest blog from Marco Zehe to understand more of what is going on: https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/ Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:14 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: David Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility Pure guessing here. When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If so, Go to Help, and scroll down to Start with add-ons disabled, and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read more here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe- mode Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu. 1. Press Win-R, and type: Firefox -safe-mode (please notice the dashes). 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window. I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a search on the net is worth. I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things: 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying: Browse Mode Is Not Available. 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it should say Firefox.set. To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like: Firefox Message? If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window. Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up? Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better mood. Smiles. For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue. Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not
Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
I am puzzled that someone reported that Firefox 56 worked with Win-Eyes 8.4. It doesn't work for me with Win-Eyes 9.5.4. David, Browse mode is available, but you get nothing but dings when you move the arrow keys, and no output when you use the Tab or shift-Tab key. You can read the menus. You can read anything you can tab to while browse mode is turned off. Sometimes Firefox.set doesn't seem to load, but even when it does, the situation remains the same. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, but the 32-bit version of Firefox is what wants to run. I believe I tried disabling add-ons also, with no effect. I get most of the same results on a different computer running Windows 10. And even if we didn't have trouble with Firefox version 56, we are pretty much guaranteed to have trouble with FF 57 which comes out next month. I like Firefox, but if I'm going to continue to use it, it will have to be with NVDA, JAWS or Narrator for Windows 10. Everyone should read the latest blog from Marco Zehe to understand more of what is going on: https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/ Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:14 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: David Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility Pure guessing here. When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If so, Go to Help, and scroll down to Start with add-ons disabled, and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read more here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu. 1. Press Win-R, and type: Firefox -safe-mode (please notice the dashes). 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window. I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a search on the net is worth. I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things: 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying: Browse Mode Is Not Available. 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it should say Firefox.set. To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like: Firefox Message? If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window. Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up? Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better mood. Smiles. For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue. Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not have any issues. Be as it might. Apparently there must be something that causes WinEyes to have its hickups, on certain systems. Could we trace the health issue, we might be able to remedy the WinEyes disease. Smiles. Just for the fun of it, in Firefox under Help, try pressing Enter on the item that says: Health Report. What do you get there? Should give you some technical information. Likely nothing important in this case, but just to
RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
I too have experienced the problem aftrer an upgrade this week. With NVDA Firefox loads properly. I tried starting Firefox in safe mode with Window-Eyes and that allowed Firefox to load. But Window-Eyes will only speak when Firefox is loaded in safe mode. I've tried to examine add ons and they seem to be disabled. Quite puzzled. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+richard.petty=earthlink@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of David via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 7:15 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: David Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility Pure guessing here. When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If so, Go to Help, and scroll down to Start with add-ons disabled, and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read more here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu. 1. Press Win-R, and type: Firefox -safe-mode (please notice the dashes). 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window. I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a search on the net is worth. I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things: 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying: Browse Mode Is Not Available. 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it should say Firefox.set. To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like: Firefox Message? If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window. Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up? Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better mood. Smiles. For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue. Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not have any issues. Be as it might. Apparently there must be something that causes WinEyes to have its hickups, on certain systems. Could we trace the health issue, we might be able to remedy the WinEyes disease. Smiles. Just for the fun of it, in Firefox under Help, try pressing Enter on the item that says: Health Report. What do you get there? Should give you some technical information. Likely nothing important in this case, but just to see if it at all could tell anything for further tracing. It at least would report if any of your Add-ons have caused Firefox to get an aching toe. In such a case, offering it a donut and a cup of coffee for free, might cheer it up a bit. Smiles. Sorry for not being of all that much help, and hope you don't mind my sense of humor on an early Saturday morning. On 10/7/2017 1:04 PM, bj colt via Talk wrote: > Hi David, > > I followed your instructions but got the same ding noise I get when > firefox upgrqades to the latest version. I am running the 32 bit version. > > I pressed alt d, then f6. The same ding. Like being in an edit box > that is stuck there. All I hear is ding. I have uninstalled firefox 3
Re: My SMA purchase experience
For the time being, I'll continue to use windows live mail 2012. It's free! -Original Message- From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk Sent: Friday, October 6, 2017 1:34 PM To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: RE: My SMA purchase experience Russ, the monthly subscription, if memory serves, is about $9.99! It adds up quickly after six months to a year! And Micro$ won't stop laughing all the way to the bank. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/russ94577%40gmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
Pure guessing here. When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If so, Go to Help, and scroll down to Start with add-ons disabled, and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read more here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu. 1. Press Win-R, and type: Firefox -safe-mode (please notice the dashes). 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window. I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a search on the net is worth. I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things: 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying: Browse Mode Is Not Available. 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it should say Firefox.set. To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like: Firefox Message? If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window. Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up? Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better mood. Smiles. For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue. Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not have any issues. Be as it might. Apparently there must be something that causes WinEyes to have its hickups, on certain systems. Could we trace the health issue, we might be able to remedy the WinEyes disease. Smiles. Just for the fun of it, in Firefox under Help, try pressing Enter on the item that says: Health Report. What do you get there? Should give you some technical information. Likely nothing important in this case, but just to see if it at all could tell anything for further tracing. It at least would report if any of your Add-ons have caused Firefox to get an aching toe. In such a case, offering it a donut and a cup of coffee for free, might cheer it up a bit. Smiles. Sorry for not being of all that much help, and hope you don't mind my sense of humor on an early Saturday morning. On 10/7/2017 1:04 PM, bj colt via Talk wrote: > Hi David, > > I followed your instructions but got the same ding noise I get when > firefox upgrqades to the latest version. I am running the 32 bit version. > > I pressed alt d, then f6. The same ding. Like being in an edit box > that is stuck there. All I hear is ding. I have uninstalled firefox 3 > times since last night and each time firefox has upgraded. Even though > I have it set not to upgrade. > > It is strange how some people aring this phenomenon and others aren't. > My friend is running firefox, same version as I am. windows 7. pentium > processor, 500 ghz hard drive. 8 gig ram. All very wierd. > > It does seem like a focus problem but what and why? > > Live long and prosper, John > > -Original Message- From: David via Talk > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 11:02 AM > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; WE English Mailinglist > Cc: David > Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and
Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
Hi David, I followed your instructions but got the same ding noise I get when firefox upgrqades to the latest version. I am running the 32 bit version. I pressed alt d, then f6. The same ding. Like being in an edit box that is stuck there. All I hear is ding. I have uninstalled firefox 3 times since last night and each time firefox has upgraded. Even though I have it set not to upgrade. It is strange how some people aring this phenomenon and others aren't. My friend is running firefox, same version as I am. windows 7. pentium processor, 500 ghz hard drive. 8 gig ram. All very wierd. It does seem like a focus problem but what and why? Live long and prosper, John -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 11:02 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; WE English Mailinglist Cc: David Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility Forgot to say, I am still running Windows7 pro 64bit, in case the OS might be the bottleneck. On 10/7/2017 12:01 PM, David via Talk wrote: I do not want to start a new lengthy arguing over accessibility issues. Yet, a few days ago, we had a discussion running here, as to the latest version of Firefox - 56 - which some users had experienced issues with. I did not have any intention in running into accessibility issues, and hence told my Firefox never to update. It is done under tools, Options, Advanced, and choose the update tab. Nevertheless, this morning when starting my Firefox, it still updated itself. I got the message on the screen, that the update was taking place, and though I could say a few things about a setting in the Firefox options, which apparently is nothing but useless - I had no choice but to let the update complete itself. My reasoning was that first it insisted on upgrading, I could always roll it back afterwards. When the upgrading was finished, I checked under Tools, Help, About - and the current installation says Firefox 56.0, 32bit. I now have used it for a couple of hours, browsing around, and do see no trouble with this version of Firefox, along with the latest (and last) version of WinEyes, that is, version 9.5.4. I do recall there has been a few comments about the 64bit version of Firefox from the past. And hence i was wondering if the users who told us not to update to the latest Firefox, due to their accessibility issues, would happen to be running the 64bit version. As an alternative, in attempting to see a reason for some experiencing trouble in latest version, I do wonder if there could be a focusing issue. Would any of you, who initially reported the loss of accessibility in Firefox 56, maybe want to try the following. 1. Open Firefox, and go to any website. 2. Press Alt-D, as in Delta. 3. Press F6. 4. Try navigating the website. Are you still unable to perform any action on the page? If so, check under Help/About,and see if you are running 64- or 32bit version. Please note, a 32bit software can be run perfectly well on a 64bit machine, but you cannot run a 64bit software on a 32bit computer. Most computers now aday, are 64bit machines, and yet, often you are encouraged to run the 32bit software, due to the 64bit technology being more vulnerable for technical issues. This is no attempt in advicing anyone, in their choice of browser or version. I am just curious why some have reported their systems facing issues, whereas my system had none. Could it even be there was something going wrong in your updating process? Or, could it be due to some of the add-ons you have installed under Firefox, and which no longer are up-to-date, due to the new add-on policy of the Mozilla group? Try starting your Firefox with all Add-ons disabled, and see if that solves any issues. Really, it would be bad, should a number of users ditch an otherwise good browser, or abstain from updating, due to some misunderstood accessibility issues. That's why, I decided to report my findings, hoping to hear from others who could shed further light on what possibly could cause issues for some. Perhaps we even could help them solve their issues, and have them back up running the Firefox browser again; even with last version of WinEyes. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/bjcolt%40blueyonder.co.uk.
Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
Forgot to say, I am still running Windows7 pro 64bit, in case the OS might be the bottleneck. On 10/7/2017 12:01 PM, David via Talk wrote: > I do not want to start a new lengthy arguing over accessibility issues. > Yet, a few days ago, we had a discussion running here, as to the latest > version of Firefox - 56 - which some users had experienced issues with. > > I did not have any intention in running into accessibility issues, and > hence told my Firefox never to update. It is done under tools, Options, > Advanced, and choose the update tab. Nevertheless, this morning when > starting my Firefox, it still updated itself. I got the message on the > screen, that the update was taking place, and though I could say a few > things about a setting in the Firefox options, which apparently is > nothing but useless - I had no choice but to let the update complete > itself. My reasoning was that first it insisted on upgrading, I could > always roll it back afterwards. > > When the upgrading was finished, I checked under Tools, Help, About - > and the current installation says > > Firefox 56.0, 32bit. > > I now have used it for a couple of hours, browsing around, and do see no > trouble with this version of Firefox, along with the latest (and last) > version of WinEyes, that is, version 9.5.4. > > I do recall there has been a few comments about the 64bit version of > Firefox from the past. And hence i was wondering if the users who told > us not to update to the latest Firefox, due to their accessibility > issues, would happen to be running the 64bit version. > > As an alternative, in attempting to see a reason for some experiencing > trouble in latest version, I do wonder if there could be a focusing > issue. Would any of you, who initially reported the loss of > accessibility in Firefox 56, maybe want to try the following. > 1. Open Firefox, and go to any website. > 2. Press Alt-D, as in Delta. > 3. Press F6. > 4. Try navigating the website. > Are you still unable to perform any action on the page? If so, check > under Help/About,and see if you are running 64- or 32bit version. Please > note, a 32bit software can be run perfectly well on a 64bit machine, but > you cannot run a 64bit software on a 32bit computer. Most computers now > aday, are 64bit machines, and yet, often you are encouraged to run the > 32bit software, due to the 64bit technology being more vulnerable for > technical issues. > > This is no attempt in advicing anyone, in their choice of browser or > version. I am just curious why some have reported their systems facing > issues, whereas my system had none. Could it even be there was something > going wrong in your updating process? Or, could it be due to some of the > add-ons you have installed under Firefox, and which no longer are > up-to-date, due to the new add-on policy of the Mozilla group? Try > starting your Firefox with all Add-ons disabled, and see if that solves > any issues. > > Really, it would be bad, should a number of users ditch an otherwise > good browser, or abstain from updating, due to some misunderstood > accessibility issues. That's why, I decided to report my findings, > hoping to hear from others who could shed further light on what possibly > could cause issues for some. Perhaps we even could help them solve their > issues, and have them back up running the Firefox browser again; even > with last version of WinEyes. > ___ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Latest Firefox, and accessibility
I do not want to start a new lengthy arguing over accessibility issues. Yet, a few days ago, we had a discussion running here, as to the latest version of Firefox - 56 - which some users had experienced issues with. I did not have any intention in running into accessibility issues, and hence told my Firefox never to update. It is done under tools, Options, Advanced, and choose the update tab. Nevertheless, this morning when starting my Firefox, it still updated itself. I got the message on the screen, that the update was taking place, and though I could say a few things about a setting in the Firefox options, which apparently is nothing but useless - I had no choice but to let the update complete itself. My reasoning was that first it insisted on upgrading, I could always roll it back afterwards. When the upgrading was finished, I checked under Tools, Help, About - and the current installation says Firefox 56.0, 32bit. I now have used it for a couple of hours, browsing around, and do see no trouble with this version of Firefox, along with the latest (and last) version of WinEyes, that is, version 9.5.4. I do recall there has been a few comments about the 64bit version of Firefox from the past. And hence i was wondering if the users who told us not to update to the latest Firefox, due to their accessibility issues, would happen to be running the 64bit version. As an alternative, in attempting to see a reason for some experiencing trouble in latest version, I do wonder if there could be a focusing issue. Would any of you, who initially reported the loss of accessibility in Firefox 56, maybe want to try the following. 1. Open Firefox, and go to any website. 2. Press Alt-D, as in Delta. 3. Press F6. 4. Try navigating the website. Are you still unable to perform any action on the page? If so, check under Help/About,and see if you are running 64- or 32bit version. Please note, a 32bit software can be run perfectly well on a 64bit machine, but you cannot run a 64bit software on a 32bit computer. Most computers now aday, are 64bit machines, and yet, often you are encouraged to run the 32bit software, due to the 64bit technology being more vulnerable for technical issues. This is no attempt in advicing anyone, in their choice of browser or version. I am just curious why some have reported their systems facing issues, whereas my system had none. Could it even be there was something going wrong in your updating process? Or, could it be due to some of the add-ons you have installed under Firefox, and which no longer are up-to-date, due to the new add-on policy of the Mozilla group? Try starting your Firefox with all Add-ons disabled, and see if that solves any issues. Really, it would be bad, should a number of users ditch an otherwise good browser, or abstain from updating, due to some misunderstood accessibility issues. That's why, I decided to report my findings, hoping to hear from others who could shed further light on what possibly could cause issues for some. Perhaps we even could help them solve their issues, and have them back up running the Firefox browser again; even with last version of WinEyes. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
