RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Tim Grady via Talk]

I wouldn't worry about it, it seems to be a blind people thing.  Everything
for blind people should be free, an attitude which has been promoted by many
agencies that is very destructive.

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+timfgrady758=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
Of CJ  MAY via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 4:40 AM
To: 'Scott Wheat' <sc...@crackedwheat.net>; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I really don't understand people's annoyance at having to purchase a
tutorial. There is free material already available, which they can use, but
why shouldn't someone be recompensed for their time and effort in creating a
tutorial. When I purchased my Iphone, I didn't think twice about purchasing
Anna Dresner's tutorial and it was money really worth spending.

In the past I have used some of Brian Hartgen's tutorials and they were
always of a high standard. 

There is free learning materials available for those who don't want to
splash out extra money but they really can't expect people to undertake such
a big piece of work and receive no reward.

 

Alison

 

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Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Steve:

I quite agree.  Brian does quite a few of these types of tutorials I
think and there is probably a cost associated with it so he has to
recover that cost somehow.
Yes, I know that  Raol has done some moduals, and they are verry good,
but maybe some people would rather hear it from Steve.

Kevin Huber
On 5/30/17, Steve Nutt via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> So what is wrong with capitalism then?  What is wrong with people making
> money if they want to?
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
> Sent: 29 May 2017 16:35
> To: 'Darrell Bowles' <dgbow...@msn.com>; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
> 7pm UK Time
>
> I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
> will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
> United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!
>
> For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
> Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
> it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
> frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
> just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand
> with
> smiles.
>
> Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
> paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
> download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
> till I have learned enough to get stuff done.
>
> No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to
> Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
> possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
> answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
> workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
> to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help
> with
> Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
> transitioning!
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
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> author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
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> om.co.uk.
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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[John Farley via Talk]

Steve,

You are a business man running a company which happens to handle products
associated with blind access technology. That is how you make your living.  

If a person wishes to make use of your services then it is incumbent on them
to pay whatever level of fee you and they agree is appropriate for that
service. 

All other services are paid for, why not this one.
I always expected to get paid when I was working in IT, why shouldn't I.

What is special about it being a service for blind people; we are not that
different to the rest of the world, we just have less ability to see than
others.
Let a sighted person get driving lessons from a professional and see if they
can get that for nothing.

For both kinds of things you can also get a well-meaning friend to help you
out but that will not always be of the same level of competence.

Best of luck Steve.



Regards, John

Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+john_farley=btinternet@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Steve Nutt via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 5:33 PM
To: 'Tom Kingston'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

Hi Tom,

Seems we're not allowed to make money.  I offer the service for people who
want to get up and running quickly with their screen reader, without asking
endless questions.

Yes, of course it's all out there for free, but why not even unsubscribe
from this list and just use the inbuilt JAWS help?  I think the more
services there are, the better, whether free or not.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
Sent: 30 May 2017 02:40
To: Darrell Bowles <dgbow...@msn.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

According to this mentality there shouldn't be a charge for anything. 
How many things in your life don't help you out in one way or another?

On 5/29/2017 11:38 AM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> There shouldn't be a charge for helping someone out.  It's disgraceful.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:37 AM
> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time
>
> Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
> To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time
>
> I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!
>
> For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.
>
> Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.
>
> No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning
to Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus softw

RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Dennis Long via Talk]

I agree.  If you charge only $38 your very reasonable.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Steve Nutt via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 12:33 PM
To: 'Tom Kingston'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

Hi Tom,

Seems we're not allowed to make money.  I offer the service for people who
want to get up and running quickly with their screen reader, without asking
endless questions.

Yes, of course it's all out there for free, but why not even unsubscribe
from this list and just use the inbuilt JAWS help?  I think the more
services there are, the better, whether free or not.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
Sent: 30 May 2017 02:40
To: Darrell Bowles <dgbow...@msn.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

According to this mentality there shouldn't be a charge for anything. 
How many things in your life don't help you out in one way or another?

On 5/29/2017 11:38 AM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> There shouldn't be a charge for helping someone out.  It's disgraceful.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:37 AM
> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over 
> Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time
>
> Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
> To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over 
> Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time
>
> I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; 
> however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!
>
> For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.
>
> Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can 
> understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.
>
> No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for 
> transitioning
to Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
>
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1982%40
> gmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/opti

RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Steve Nutt via Talk]

Hi Tom,

Seems we're not allowed to make money.  I offer the service for people who
want to get up and running quickly with their screen reader, without asking
endless questions.

Yes, of course it's all out there for free, but why not even unsubscribe
from this list and just use the inbuilt JAWS help?  I think the more
services there are, the better, whether free or not.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
Sent: 30 May 2017 02:40
To: Darrell Bowles <dgbow...@msn.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

According to this mentality there shouldn't be a charge for anything. 
How many things in your life don't help you out in one way or another?

On 5/29/2017 11:38 AM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> There shouldn't be a charge for helping someone out.  It's disgraceful.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:37 AM
> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time
>
> Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
> To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time
>
> I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!
>
> For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.
>
> Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.
>
> No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning
to Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
>
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1982%40
> gmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dgbowles%40msn
.com.
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> ___
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author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
http

RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Steve Nutt via Talk]

Sorry, I disagree.  Probably hours went into making sure it works as a
Window-Eyes user would want it to.  Constructing the course, etc.

I don't see why people are not allowed to make a living.

I offer a similar service, but on a one to one basis, so if anyone is
interested, please contact me.  Same price.

I do it differently though, I log into their computer, and take them round
the configuration and teach them how to change settings.  With their
permission of course.  But the freebie hunters won't be interested of
course.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Darrell Bowles via Talk
Sent: 29 May 2017 16:38
To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

There shouldn't be a charge for helping someone out.  It's disgraceful. 

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:37 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!  

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.  

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.  

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Steve Nutt via Talk]

Hi,

So what is wrong with capitalism then?  What is wrong with people making
money if they want to?

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: 29 May 2017 16:35
To: 'Darrell Bowles' <dgbow...@msn.com>; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!  

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.  

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.  

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[CJ MAY via Talk]

I really don't understand people's annoyance at having to purchase a
tutorial. There is free material already available, which they can use, but
why shouldn't someone be recompensed for their time and effort in creating a
tutorial. When I purchased my Iphone, I didn't think twice about purchasing
Anna Dresner's tutorial and it was money really worth spending.

In the past I have used some of Brian Hartgen's tutorials and they were
always of a high standard. 

There is free learning materials available for those who don't want to
splash out extra money but they really can't expect people to undertake such
a big piece of work and receive no reward.

 

Alison

 

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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[CJ MAY via Talk]

My paths haven't crossed with Brian Hartgen for many years but when I was
relatively new to computers, his tutorials were really helpful, especially
as at that time, he was a Window-eyes user himself. He is very
knowledgeable, talks in a non-technical way and makes learning easy. Will I
buy his tutorial? Well, I'll see how I get on with what's already available
first. I do have several friends who are Jaws users so might keep my money
in my pocket for the time being - smile!

 

Alison

 

 

 

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Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

It was meant sarcastically.

On 5/29/2017 10:38 PM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:
> Snopes?  How would snopes know?  Pam.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 6:37 PM
> To: Sky Mundell ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; 'Darrell Bowles'
> Subject: Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The 
> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm 
> Eastern, 7pm UK Time
> 
> Has anyone checked Snopes for verification of these anecdotes?
> 
> On 5/29/2017 4:07 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>> OK. The real truth is that we have been shafted by the company who made
>> JAWS, pluss the blind organizations. The true reason why organizations
>> favored JAWS above Window-Eyes was because it brought them more 
>> profit. The
>> venders who sold Window-Eyes, supernova etc. always put JAWS at the 
>> top of
>> their lists. Plus the venders deliberately lied about Window-Eyes too. 
>> As an
>> example, their was a girlfriend of a list member, named Carol who was 
>> on the
>> list,  and one of her relatives was blind, and he used Window-Eyes so he
>> recommended it over JAWS. She got Window-Eyes no problems. Then, she went
>> and got a new computer and a new copy of Window-Eyes, and the assessor 
>> that
>> she met told her that Window-Eyes was going bust and that there was no 
>> point
>> in going with it. This guy worked at the blind school in Brantford, 
>> Ontario.
>> Carol told him that she was under no circumstances taking JAWS and 
>> that she
>> had a Window-Eyes expert as a boyfriend and she eventually got 
>> Window-Eyes
>> with two SMA's. Also, venders for the blind would also lie about the free
>> version of Window-Eyes for office. They would say things like the free
>> version doesn't work with office, it only works as a demo, it only 
>> lasts 6
>> months, it only lasts for 90 days, etc. These were regular lies told 
>> by the
>> venders. It was the profit factor, not the product. The venders 
>> favored JAWS
>> because it brought them more profit. That is the true story of why
>> Window-Eyes  never made it up to the top.
>> gbow...@msn.com]
>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:45 AM
>> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
>> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
>> 7pm UK Time
>>
>> Let's hear it, why is that?
>> And I just had a funny thing happen with JAWS,  I did the hole 
>> control+y to
>> go to a folder in outlook, and I selected my inbox. It told me -2 of 1014
>> messages. So, it's okay for JAWS to report negative numbers? lol
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn....@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>> Behalf Of Sky Mundell via Talk
>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:43 AM
>> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
>> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
>> 7pm UK Time
>>
>> I'm not even going to be buying this course by this guy.  Besides, I know
>> the whole truth of why JAWS was promoted over Window-Eyes and it is 
>> not just
>> my opinion, it is the truth of many Window-Eyes users.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>> Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:35 AM
>> To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
>> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
>> 7pm UK Time
>>
>> I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; 
>> however, I
>> will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
>> United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!
>>
>> For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
>> Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
>> it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
>> frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than 
>> I at
>> just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping 
>> hand with
>> smiles.
>>
>> Now, if the training has to do wit

Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

Snopes?  How would snopes know?  Pam.

-Original Message- 
From: Nick Sarames via Talk

Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 6:37 PM
To: Sky Mundell ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; 'Darrell Bowles'
Subject: Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The 
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 
7pm UK Time


Has anyone checked Snopes for verification of these anecdotes?

On 5/29/2017 4:07 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

OK. The real truth is that we have been shafted by the company who made
JAWS, pluss the blind organizations. The true reason why organizations
favored JAWS above Window-Eyes was because it brought them more profit. 
The

venders who sold Window-Eyes, supernova etc. always put JAWS at the top of
their lists. Plus the venders deliberately lied about Window-Eyes too. As 
an
example, their was a girlfriend of a list member, named Carol who was on 
the

list,  and one of her relatives was blind, and he used Window-Eyes so he
recommended it over JAWS. She got Window-Eyes no problems. Then, she went
and got a new computer and a new copy of Window-Eyes, and the assessor 
that
she met told her that Window-Eyes was going bust and that there was no 
point
in going with it. This guy worked at the blind school in Brantford, 
Ontario.
Carol told him that she was under no circumstances taking JAWS and that 
she

had a Window-Eyes expert as a boyfriend and she eventually got Window-Eyes
with two SMA's. Also, venders for the blind would also lie about the free
version of Window-Eyes for office. They would say things like the free
version doesn't work with office, it only works as a demo, it only lasts 6
months, it only lasts for 90 days, etc. These were regular lies told by 
the
venders. It was the profit factor, not the product. The venders favored 
JAWS

because it brought them more profit. That is the true story of why
Window-Eyes  never made it up to the top.
gbow...@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:45 AM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

Let's hear it, why is that?
And I just had a funny thing happen with JAWS,  I did the hole control+y 
to

go to a folder in outlook, and I selected my inbox. It told me -2 of 1014
messages. So, it's okay for JAWS to report negative numbers? lol

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Sky Mundell via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:43 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I'm not even going to be buying this course by this guy.  Besides, I know
the whole truth of why JAWS was promoted over Window-Eyes and it is not 
just

my opinion, it is the truth of many Window-Eyes users.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:35 AM
To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand 
with

smiles.

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, 
a

download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning 
to

Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help 
with

Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus so

Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Scott Wheat via Talk]

You are right Tom.
Mr. Hartgen has every right to charge for something he is spending time and 
effort on. And, of course, each person has the right to decide if it is worth 
the money or not. Some people such as myself are very comfortable learning JAWS 
on there own, but for those who want the extra training and are willing to pay 
for it, I say go for it!
Very few things in life worth having are free. The fact is that WindowEyes is a 
thing of the past and each person needs to make there own decision as to how 
best to move forward.

Scott


> On May 29, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk 
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> 
> According to this mentality there shouldn't be a charge for anything. How 
> many things in your life don't help you out in one way or another?
> 
> On 5/29/2017 11:38 AM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
>> There shouldn't be a charge for helping someone out.  It's disgraceful.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:37 AM
>> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The 
>> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 
>> 7pm UK Time
>> 
>> Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
>> To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The 
>> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 
>> 7pm UK Time
>> 
>> I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I 
>> will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the 
>> United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!
>> 
>> For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some 
>> Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for 
>> it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists 
>> frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at 
>> just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with 
>> smiles.
>> 
>> Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand 
>> paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a 
>> download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it 
>> till I have learned enough to get stuff done.
>> 
>> No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to 
>> Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is 
>> possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have 
>> answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with 
>> workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely 
>> to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with 
>> Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for 
>> transitioning!
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Olusegun
>> Denver, Colorado
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>> 
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dennisl1982%40
>> gmail.com.
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>> 
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Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

According to this mentality there shouldn't be a charge for anything. 
How many things in your life don't help you out in one way or another?


On 5/29/2017 11:38 AM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:

There shouldn't be a charge for helping someone out.  It's disgraceful.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:37 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch 
from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch 
from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I will 
say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the United 
States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some 
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for it.  
Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists frequented 
by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at just about 
everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with smiles.

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand 
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a 
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it till 
I have learned enough to get stuff done.

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to 
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is 
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have 
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with 
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely to 
Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with Jaws. 
 Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

If there were no other options, maybe it would be a disgrace.

On 5/29/2017 11:38 AM, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote:
> There shouldn't be a charge for helping someone out.  It's disgraceful.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:37 AM
> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The 
> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm 
> UK Time
> 
> Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
> To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The 
> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm 
> UK Time
> 
> I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I 
> will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the 
> United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!
> 
> For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some 
> Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for it. 
>  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists 
> frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at 
> just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with 
> smiles.
> 
> Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand 
> paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a 
> download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it 
> till I have learned enough to get stuff done.
> 
> No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to 
> Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is 
> possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have 
> answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with 
> workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely to 
> Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with 
> Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for 
> transitioning!
> 
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
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Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Has anyone checked Snopes for verification of these anecdotes?

On 5/29/2017 4:07 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
> OK. The real truth is that we have been shafted by the company who made
> JAWS, pluss the blind organizations. The true reason why organizations
> favored JAWS above Window-Eyes was because it brought them more profit. The
> venders who sold Window-Eyes, supernova etc. always put JAWS at the top of
> their lists. Plus the venders deliberately lied about Window-Eyes too. As an
> example, their was a girlfriend of a list member, named Carol who was on the
> list,  and one of her relatives was blind, and he used Window-Eyes so he
> recommended it over JAWS. She got Window-Eyes no problems. Then, she went
> and got a new computer and a new copy of Window-Eyes, and the assessor that
> she met told her that Window-Eyes was going bust and that there was no point
> in going with it. This guy worked at the blind school in Brantford, Ontario.
> Carol told him that she was under no circumstances taking JAWS and that she
> had a Window-Eyes expert as a boyfriend and she eventually got Window-Eyes
> with two SMA's. Also, venders for the blind would also lie about the free
> version of Window-Eyes for office. They would say things like the free
> version doesn't work with office, it only works as a demo, it only lasts 6
> months, it only lasts for 90 days, etc. These were regular lies told by the
> venders. It was the profit factor, not the product. The venders favored JAWS
> because it brought them more profit. That is the true story of why
> Window-Eyes  never made it up to the top.
> gbow...@msn.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:45 AM
> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
> 7pm UK Time
> 
> Let's hear it, why is that?
> And I just had a funny thing happen with JAWS,  I did the hole control+y to
> go to a folder in outlook, and I selected my inbox. It told me -2 of 1014
> messages. So, it's okay for JAWS to report negative numbers? lol
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Sky Mundell via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:43 AM
> To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
> 7pm UK Time
> 
> I'm not even going to be buying this course by this guy.  Besides, I know
> the whole truth of why JAWS was promoted over Window-Eyes and it is not just
> my opinion, it is the truth of many Window-Eyes users.
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:35 AM
> To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
> Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
> 7pm UK Time
> 
> I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
> will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
> United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!
> 
> For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
> Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
> it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
> frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
> just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
> smiles.
> 
> Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
> paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
> download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
> till I have learned enough to get stuff done.
> 
> No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to
> Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
> possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
> answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
> workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
> to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
> Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
> transitioning!
> 
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has be

RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

OK. The real truth is that we have been shafted by the company who made
JAWS, pluss the blind organizations. The true reason why organizations
favored JAWS above Window-Eyes was because it brought them more profit. The
venders who sold Window-Eyes, supernova etc. always put JAWS at the top of
their lists. Plus the venders deliberately lied about Window-Eyes too. As an
example, their was a girlfriend of a list member, named Carol who was on the
list,  and one of her relatives was blind, and he used Window-Eyes so he
recommended it over JAWS. She got Window-Eyes no problems. Then, she went
and got a new computer and a new copy of Window-Eyes, and the assessor that
she met told her that Window-Eyes was going bust and that there was no point
in going with it. This guy worked at the blind school in Brantford, Ontario.
Carol told him that she was under no circumstances taking JAWS and that she
had a Window-Eyes expert as a boyfriend and she eventually got Window-Eyes
with two SMA's. Also, venders for the blind would also lie about the free
version of Window-Eyes for office. They would say things like the free
version doesn't work with office, it only works as a demo, it only lasts 6
months, it only lasts for 90 days, etc. These were regular lies told by the
venders. It was the profit factor, not the product. The venders favored JAWS
because it brought them more profit. That is the true story of why
Window-Eyes  never made it up to the top. 
gbow...@msn.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:45 AM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

Let's hear it, why is that?
And I just had a funny thing happen with JAWS,  I did the hole control+y to
go to a folder in outlook, and I selected my inbox. It told me -2 of 1014
messages. So, it's okay for JAWS to report negative numbers? lol

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Sky Mundell via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:43 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I'm not even going to be buying this course by this guy.  Besides, I know
the whole truth of why JAWS was promoted over Window-Eyes and it is not just
my opinion, it is the truth of many Window-Eyes users.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:35 AM
To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!  

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.  

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.  

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Darrell Bowles via Talk]

There shouldn't be a charge for helping someone out.  It's disgraceful. 

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Dennis Long via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:37 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch 
from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch 
from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I will 
say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the United 
States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!  

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some 
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for it.  
Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists frequented 
by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at just about 
everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with smiles.  

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand 
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a 
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it till 
I have learned enough to get stuff done.  

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to 
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is 
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have 
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with 
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely to 
Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with Jaws. 
 Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Darrell Bowles via Talk]

Let's hear it, why is that?
And I just had a funny thing happen with JAWS,  I did the hole control+y to go 
to a folder in outlook, and I selected my inbox. It told me -2 of 1014 
messages. So, it's okay for JAWS to report negative numbers? lol

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgbowles=msn@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Sky Mundell via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:43 AM
To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch 
from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

I'm not even going to be buying this course by this guy.  Besides, I know the 
whole truth of why JAWS was promoted over Window-Eyes and it is not just my 
opinion, it is the truth of many Window-Eyes users.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf 
Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:35 AM
To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch 
from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I will 
say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the United 
States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!  

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some 
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for it.  
Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists frequented 
by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at just about 
everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with smiles.  

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand 
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a 
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it till 
I have learned enough to get stuff done.  

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to 
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is 
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have 
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with 
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely to 
Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with Jaws. 
 Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

I'm not even going to be buying this course by this guy.  Besides, I know
the whole truth of why JAWS was promoted over Window-Eyes and it is not just
my opinion, it is the truth of many Window-Eyes users.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 8:35 AM
To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!  

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.  

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.  

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


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.
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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Dennis Long via Talk]

Why not it was a business decision to discontinue WE.  $38 is versonable.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:35 AM
To: 'Darrell Bowles'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The
Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern,
7pm UK Time

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!  

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.  

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.  

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


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RE: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

I'm not trying to KILL business for another blind entrepreneur; however, I
will say without mincing words that no one, especially those of us in the
United States and Canada, should ever pay a RED cent for this course!  

For a start, my buddy and brother, Mr. Raul Gallegos, did record some
Jaws-related titbits for all to download and has never charged a cent for
it.  Second, questions can be asked here or on some other mailing lists
frequented by the blind, and the good folks who are better gurus than I at
just about everything will STEP UP TO THE PLATE and lend a helping hand with
smiles.  

Now, if the training has to do with WRITING JAWS SCRIPTS, I can understand
paying for that!  In that instance, the recording should already be done, a
download link provided so I can pay for and grab it and work slowly on it
till I have learned enough to get stuff done.  

No!  No Window-Eyes user should be milked a penny more for transitioning to
Jaws!  It's wrong in my books.  I'll stay on this list for as long as is
possible; I'll do all I can to help folks with using Jaws; if I don't have
answers to particular questions, I'll go find them and come back here with
workable solutions and tips at NO cost!  Even when I transition completely
to Android by September, I'll still be here to help folks who need help with
Jaws.  Again, no Window-Eyes user MUST BE MILKED OUT of a cent for
transitioning!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado   


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Re: Announcement: Brian Hartgen Training Course, Over Easy:The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS! Being Held Online 6/1/17 at 2pm Eastern, 7pm UK Time

[Darrell Bowles via Talk]

The cost of the course is a surprise.
If I say anything more, I may hurt myself.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2017, at 9:16 AM, Joseph Norton via Talk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi list:
> 
> Any of you seen this?
> 
> I won’t comment either way on it, just forwarding it.
> 
> 
> New Training Course. Over Easy: The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS!
> 
> Introduction.
> 
> It's no secret that sales of the Window-Eyes screen-reader have ended. The 
> owning company VFO are offering JAWS for Windows as a replacement for 
> Window-Eyes users. But how do you get started with JAWS? How easy is it to 
> transition from one screen-reader to another? How do you accomplish some of 
> the most basic tasks you would want to do with your screen-reader?
> All these questions and more will be answered in our training course, Over 
> Easy: The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS. 
> During the session, lasting approximately 90 minutes, Brian Hartgen will show 
> you the basics of how to use JAWS for windows and give you plenty of useful 
> tips and tricks along the way. Best of all, you'll be able to keep a 
> recording of the Webinar and get a text document containing keystrokes and a 
> summary of essential points for later reference. The Webinar will also give 
> you plenty of opportunity to ask questions.
> 
> Brian Hartgen has been using JAWS for over 20 years. He is also a beta tester 
> for JAWS, MAGic and ZoomText Fusion, has completed the advanced JAWS 
> scripting course at VFO's Headquarters in florida and has completed JAWS 
> certification in 2017. So not only is his knowledge of JAWS as current as it 
> can be, but he came to the JAWS screen-reader from a Window-Eyes background.
> 
> The course will be delivered online via our accessible Talking Communities 
> server. If you have not used this conferencing software before, you will 
> receive instructions prior to the commencement of the course. This software 
> allows for the delivery of the presentation, including the output from the 
> screen-reading software in high quality audio.
> 
> What Will I Learn?
> 
> The cool thing about courses from Hartgen Consultancy is that to some extent 
> they are tailored to the user's requirements. So topics can be quickly worked 
> through if you ask. However, you will learn:
> • How to use the JAWS Startup Wizard.
> • Adjusting the rate of speech and typing echo.
> • Getting help.
> • Keystrokes to get information quickly.
> • Reading documents.
> • Useful JAWS features in Microsoft word.
> • The basics of browsing the internet.
> • How to get more help.
> 
> Costing.
> 
> The Over Easy: The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS course is priced £30 which 
> is currently $38. It will be held on Thursday 1 June at 7 PM UK time which is 
> 2 PM US Eastern.
> If you cannot make this date, don't worry, you can still obtain the archive 
> shortly after the event.
> Payment should reach us by the morning of Thursday 1 June.
> Purchase Over Easy: The Switch from window-Eyes to JAWS Online.
> Alternatively, anyone who would like to take part in the course should 
> register their interest by sending an Email to j...@hartgen.org, whereupon a 
> fully accessible electronic invoice will be sent to you which can be paid 
> through PayPal or any major credit or debit card. Orders can also be placed 
> by telephone:
> • Call us (from within the UK): 02920-850298.
> • Call us (from the United States): 415-871-0626.
> • Call us (from any other country): (+44)2920-850298.
> If you would like to read the views from participants of our previous 
> courses, please Visit our Training area.
> The Talking Communities chat room and recording of the Webinar, made 
> available after the event, can be accessed through a secure area of our 
> website which is only available to course participants.
> 
> Summary.
> 
> For some people, it can be hard to move from one screen-reader to another, 
> particularly if you've been using Window-Eyes for very many years. But here 
> is a chance to get your skills to a point where you can work with JAWS 
> effectively, and use that knowledge to learn more as you go. Join us to find 
> out what JAWS can do for you! 
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> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> 
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> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/dgbowles%40msn.com.
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