Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-15 Thread Elizabeth Dodd
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:44:38 +0100 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/2/14 ed...@billiau.net:  I've been thinking about the 12nm territorial borders on sea that we have in many places, notably in Europe. Many of them seem to have been auto-generated by simply placing a

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-15 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/2/15 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: 2) are the positions of the lines rated as to certainty? I know you are the man with the answer to every question, but you have missed one yes, I was not sure if I understood that one right. Is the question if there can be certainty about the

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-15 Thread Elizabeth Dodd
On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:05:15 +0100 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/2/15 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: 2) are the positions of the lines rated as to certainty? I know you are the man with the answer to every question, but you have missed one yes, I was not

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-15 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/2/15 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: You mentioned that the Italian nautical border was obtained from statute, which sounds definitive, and then noted that the datum may have needed correcting, because if in statute before 1984 WGS84 would not have existed. No, I mentioned that we

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-15 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
the source is: EUROSION was a project commissioned by the General Directorate Environment of the European Commission 2002-2004. The main source of data comes out of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), where nations define and update their sovereign claims to the ocean.

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread Frederik Ramm
Dave, On 02/14/11 07:52, David Murn wrote: Im sure I remember reading a linked news story posted on this mailing list about a soldier crossing into enemy country because of incorrect mapping on his GPS. In that case, should we perhaps deviate from our usual mode of operation (anyone can add

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread Toby Murray
Well there is at least one place where other information has been taken into account: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=5lon=-9.46zoom=6layers=M ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread David Murn
On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 09:23 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: My assumption - and I'm not a boating person so I may be wrong - is that if you're out on a boat with any working kind of navigation, you will know where the coastline is, and therefore you will automatically know where the 12nm

[OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread lkytomaa
I've been thinking about the 12nm territorial borders on sea that we have in many places, notably in Europe. Many of them seem to have been auto-generated by simply placing a buffer around the coastline. My first question is, do they really have legal significance? They Just that it's

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread edodd
I've been thinking about the 12nm territorial borders on sea that we have in many places, notably in Europe. Many of them seem to have been auto-generated by simply placing a buffer around the coastline. My first question is, do they really have legal significance? They Just that it's

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread andrzej zaborowski
Hi, On 14 February 2011 03:22, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:   I've been thinking about the 12nm territorial borders on sea that we have in many places, notably in Europe. Many of them seem to have been auto-generated by simply placing a buffer around the coastline. My first

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/2/14 ed...@billiau.net:  I've been thinking about the 12nm territorial borders on sea that we have in many places, notably in Europe. Many of them seem to have been auto-generated by simply placing a buffer around the coastline. My first question is, do they really have legal

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/2/14 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Maybe then we should only add this data where it has been changed by treaty/agreement? Much as most people don't bother adding maxspeed tags to every inner-city road, assuming that it is enough to put them where the speed limit deviates from the

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
I agree that there is also some rubbish, e.g. this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/50899241 nobody can rightfully claim its territory (=admin_level 2) to be extended by 200 nautic miles, and also the linked wikipedia article doesn't imply this. Also it doesn't seem that the baseline was

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/2/14 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: I agree that there is also some rubbish, e.g. this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/50899241 nobody can rightfully claim its territory (=admin_level 2) to be extended by 200 nautic miles, and also the linked wikipedia article

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-14 Thread OJ W
Im sure I remember reading a linked news story posted on this mailing list about a soldier crossing into enemy country because of incorrect mapping on his GPS. this one? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3761058.ece or this one?

[OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-13 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, I've been thinking about the 12nm territorial borders on sea that we have in many places, notably in Europe. Many of them seem to have been auto-generated by simply placing a buffer around the coastline. My first question is, do they really have legal significance? They certainly

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I'm not saying we should delete them; but whenever I see them on the map I tend to shrug and say well, seems like someone was trying out his PostGIS skillz, and somehow I have the suspicion that the 12nm line as depicted

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-13 Thread David Murn
On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 03:22 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: I've been thinking about the 12nm territorial borders on sea that we have in many places, notably in Europe. Many of them seem to have been auto-generated by simply placing a buffer around the coastline. My first question is, do

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-13 Thread Anders Arnholm
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 2011-02-14 03:22, Frederik Ramm skrev: For example, if I am inside this triangle between Scotland and Ireland, will my legal status (concerning, say, fishing quotas, or whom I can marry on board of my vessel, or whatever funny things influcenced

Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?

2011-02-13 Thread Stephen Hope
On 14 February 2011 16:52, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Would the UK coastguard have a good laugh when I claim to be in international waters at that location? If youre more than 12 miles from the coast (which is what is mapped) then youre in international waters, why would they