Courtney wrote:
> Or is it going to keep doing the same old flame wars?
To be honest, the mailing lists have been on the way out for a long time now,
and talk@ is no exception. Some once busy lists are now basically dead (dev@,
legal-talk@, talk-de@). Others are noticeably quieter (talk@, talk-f
Jas Ranasinghe wrote:
> Is anyone able to provide any information about the missing Public
> Rights of Way overlay? It is still currently in the overlay list, but the
> Rights of Way do not show up on the map.
I'm guessing this refers to one of the tile layers I host at osm.cycle.travel.
Unfortun
Blake Girardot wrote:
> I will just point out a common pattern:
Céline posted an eloquent opening statement that talks about "this dominant
profile" and the thread has, true to form, largely descended into the same
dominant profile arguing and "just pointing out" things.
It might therefore be i
Michal Migurski wrote:
> FB’s attribution approach in keeping with best practices
> seen from other commercial users of display maps.
In the spirit of Twitter footnoting one of Donald Trump's "I won the election"
tweets, this is your respectful reminder that Google, Bing, Here, Tencent,
ViaMiche
mmd wrote:
> I'm wondering if some of the changes that are now needed for AIR
> would make it more difficult to switch to Ruffle later on.
The short answer is (based on the POC work I've done so far) no. :)
The slightly longer answer is that I hope, as part of this project,
to make a number of cha
Skyler Hawthorne wrote:
> Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think using any funds at all to
> continue support for a tool that 1% of editors use would be wasteful.
> Flash is, for all intents and purposes, a dead technology. This
> money is better spent on other uses.
The entire point is to move a
Sören Reinecke wrote:
> So far as I understood Adobe dropped Linux support for its
> AIR plattform. If that is right, then I am in doubt that
> supporting the development of Potlatch 2 is not that in
> a sustainable manner.
AIR is not maintained by Adobe, but by Harman, a Samsung subsidiary. AIR f
Kathleen Lu wrote:
> OSM has imported sources that are ODbL. The attribution to those sources
> does not appear on the map, but rather after several clicks (usually first
> to the copyright page, then the contributors page). If that's not
> acceptable under ODbL for a map that has multiple data sou
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Since cc-by-sa 2.0 times, the suggestion to credit OSM was "©
> OpenStreetMap contributors", but from the current legal situation
> (all necessary rights granted to the OSMF) it wouldn't be
> necessary to credit the contributors.
When I wrote the /copyright page all
Kathleen Lu wrote:
> I would not say this is true. Google maps has routing for walking,
> cycling, and public transit, and their public transit information is
> probably more complete than OSM's.
It is, but on the other hand Google's walking and cycling routing is _much_
worse.
Richard
--
Se
Paul Johnson wrote:
> Could we get some lane editing/rendering in these editors
> to cut down on this kind of unintentionally erratic mapping?
Sure, you're welcome to open a friendly issue at
https://github.com/systemed/potlatch2/issues listing the base case for what
you think is required.
> > N
Rory McCann wrote:
> The existence of an OSM cycling logo doesn't mean all
> OSMers have to be cycling activists!
Wait, what?
cheers
Richard
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Maarten Deen wrote:
> Is it an idea to create some kind of ticketing system for this?
I think we already have this:
- create notes on osm.org, including the word "eurovelo"
- search for "eurovelo" on https://ent8r.github.io/NotesReview/
Richard
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EuroVelo routes are not in a great state in OSM. Many of them appear to have
been armchaired years ago when routes were "in development", and not updated
since to reflect the correct route.
A handful of examples:
[France]
https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#?map=12!49.2876!2.655
EV3 should fol
Roland Olbricht wrote:
> > Changing to a github-like system of version management
> I thought of Git, not Github.
Again, there's no suggestion of "changing to"; it would be additional.
As Christoph says, the challenge would be "finding, motivating, selecting
and retaining qualified people to work
Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> Changing to a github-like system of version management would
> require some people to serve as "maintainers" or "moderators"
> of the new, curated list of Map Features / Tags, wouldn't it? While
> this could be an improvement in the quality and consistency of
> how dec
Roland Olbricht wrote:
> Imperfect Flow of Information
>
> Although many parts of the OpenStreetMap project are well
> translated, the tagging documentation has substantial deficiencies.
Yep. Documentation is the biggest problem with tagging.
I don't actually think it's the wiki per se that's th
Kathleen Lu wrote:
> "reasonably calculated" means "reasonable." What does reasonable mean?
> Well a court would look at what other people in the industry do. Do others
> in the industry list attribution, especially to multiple data sources,
> after
> a click (or many clicks)? Yes, all the time.
Christoph Hormann wrote:
> Just for understanding what second rate attribution is: For example
> the map on the bottom right of:
> https://www.zeit.de/politik/2019-07/strasse-von-hormus-bundesregierung-marinemission-usa-iran
> printing a prominent "Zeit Online" below the map (self attribution) bu
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
If you look at Apple Maps, and for example zoomed into some place in Denmark,
there is an i-button which brings you to an overlay which has a TomTom logo and
a link „and others“
while in Denmark the data is from OpenStreetMap. IMHO this second rate
attribution clearl
Christoph Hormann wrote:
> It does not in any way address the problem of second rate attribution
> (i.e. someone else - usually the service provider of the map service
> or the media outlet publishing the map) is being attributed more
> prominently than OSM.
That is not something that the ODbL
SimonPoole wrote:
> the few things that are not nailed down belong to those that we
> would appreciate feedback on.
This is really good, and very much in accordance with both the text of the
ODbL and the long-standing precedents set by the osm.org/copyright page.
Thank you.
Two small wording cla
Andrew Hain wrote:
> Have a new team of developers code from the codebase of iD.
> Write a new online editor from scratch.
> Abandon online editing and tell everyone to use an offline editor.
Please stop trolling.
Richard
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Wiklund Johan wrote:
> Adding footway to the platform serves no purpose but to please poorly
> built
> routing engines.
Are there actually any such engines, or is this a post-facto justification?
OSRM has routed over platforms since 8 September 2013. Valhalla does - it's
multimodal and you can't
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Now while everybody is free to use any tag she likes, I would not
> expect the OpenStreetMap-Foundation standard editor to
> introduce new tags through presets.
It's been happening since Potlatch 1 came online in 2007, so you should have
had a few years to get used
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> How did you come to this conclusion? I counted 3 people not so
> interested in attribution or OK with current state of things and
> 16 agreeing either explicitly or implicitly with Richard's assessment
> that there is a problem.
I think WeeklyOSM were being very fai
Mikel Maron wrote:
> We may not like that reality, but that's the underlying legal situation.
> We can certainly recommend a better way. And that recommendation
> can only be formulated through the OSMF; a mailing list discussion
> will not lead to a legal decision, though it's an interesting pul
Hi all,
In recent years some OSM data consumers and "OSM as a service" providers
have begun to put the credit to OpenStreetMap behind an click-through
'About', 'Credits', 'Legal' or '(i)' link. Examples:
https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/android/android-first-steps-intro.png
https://www.system
Tomas Straupis wrote:
> Ad absurdum argument: can you invent your own street name or even
> placename and expect post, police, ambulance, firefighters, taxi to
> arrive (on time or at all)?
Sure, in the UK, you could do that and I know people who have done so. If
you invent a street name here in
Hi all,
I've just added coverage of Scandinavia and Eastern Europe to the
OSM-powered bike routing at https://cycle.travel/map .
New countries are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania,
Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Serbia, Kosovo, (North)
Macedonia, Albania,
Blake Girardot wrote:
> Also: No one is getting paid for anything related to this at this
> point. I personally would like to see Google donate to the OSMF
> and let the OSMF grant it out to help OSM core and eco system
> tools implement OLC native in code as it should be.
That's done. Tom has c
Greg Morgan wrote:
> Let's compare Germany[8], the state of Montana[9] and the
> United States[10]. We see that the size of Montana matches the
> size of Germany. Yet, we see the population density is roughly
> 82 million people in Germany to 1 million people in Montana.
I see a lot of varied m
Florian Lohoff wrote:
> Have you ever dealt with OSM data from a software development
> standpoint?
>
> There is no such thing as "database quality". Its a big spaghetti
> mess and data consumers take whats documented and ignore
> misspellings. Users have to fix it with discipline noticing the e
Carlos Cámara wrote:
> Willing to read your points of view on that matter.
There is a whole lot I could say on this (writing "Eurocentric" in a
discussion about casinos seems really weird, and I'm not sure Native
Americans would thank you for it) but ultimately it's a little academic at
the moment
Paul Norman wrote:
> If there's agreement that there is a problem here, I could look
> at preparing a mechanical edit or MapRoulette challenge to add
> name:* tags, e.g. adding name:en to objects in the US with
> other name:* tags, and adding name:zh in China. As an
> estimate, this would be 11
joost schooupe wrote:
> It doesn't help that it was worded as "people are
> saying", but then the last part of the sentence seems more
> like their own opinion.
Worth noting that WeeklyOSM is produced alongside and seeded by the German
Wochennotiz. I don't sprechen sufficient Deutsch to be certai
Sheesh, you lot are hilarious sometimes.
Publications have an inviolable duty to be impartial? That’s great. Very
interesting attitude in 2017. Tell me when you’ve found one such.
WeeklyOSM writes what WeeklyOSM wants. If you don’t like it, contribute or
start your own. It saddens me that the s
Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Look at Wikipedia, or any large social organization for that matter. At
> the village/startup level, you have very few codified rules, but as the
> group grows to a city/corporation size, it becomes more and more
> bureaucratic. We may not like it, but clear rules help co
I agree absolutely. Time to ban verdy_p for continually disruptive behaviour
and an unwillingness to work with the community.
Richard
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Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> For example, RU community wants to convert amenity=sanatorium
> -> leisure=resort + resort=sanatorium. Clicking on a dot shows a
> popup with the suggested edit. If you think the edit is correct, simply
> click Save.
I've been a bit loth to get involved with this one bu
Hi all,
I've just added support for a couple more tags to cycle.travel's
directions and thought it worth mentioning here - everyone likes seeing
their mapping being used. :)
First up, cycle.travel now includes 'knooppunten' (cycle node networks)
in turn-by-turn directions. These are found in
Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Also, what about the location where data is combined? E.g. if wikidata
> is in public domain, and US courts agree with that statement, anyone
> in the US can combine it with OSM data? What about UK? In any
> case, i suspect nothing we decide has any merit until the ac
Andy Mabbett wrote:
> in different parts of the world
IIRC OSM stores spatial information. I might be wrong.
Richard
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https://l
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I'd invest the available brainpower in steps needed to achieve
> this goal, even if it's a year or two in the future.
Which means vector tiles... which we should be looking at anyway.
But that needs to be a separate project really, rather than a facet of
openstreetmap-cart
Roland Olbricht wrote:
> This makes clear that neither the file name extension "osm" is
> jeoparday. Or you do not want to discourage people from using
> "osmium", "osmosis" or a range of other software.
I see your point there, but conversely I am really uncomfortable with the
OsmAnd situation.
No, it will be a desktop app for Mac/Windows running with Adobe AIR.
Richard
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Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote:
> The data shows something else. From todays old-style.osm.pbf, at least
> these relations were created yesterday with Potlatch 2:
Hey wait, aren't you meant to be posting this on an issue tracker? ;)
Richard
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Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote:
> Ah yes, your lovely deprecated editor which still lets users
> create old-style multipolygons on a daily basis. How I love your work.
>
> See the irony in the above?
That's about as ironic as ray-ay-ayn on your wedding day...
But you've just supplied a very good il
Bas Couwenberg wrote:
> On 06/02/2017 03:43 PM, Chris Hill wrote:
> > I also object to people who provide software for OSM, used by OSM
> > community members but who must use Github to raise a problem. Let
> > the authors add the issue to github it it suits them.
>
> You apparently have no clue how
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> saying "your privacy goes down the drain if you do anything
> online anyway, so why should we at OSM take steps to protect
> it more".
>
> Perhaps: because we can, and because it's a good thing?
...or perhaps it isn't quite that black and white.
OSM, at its best, is a com
Florian Schäfer wrote:
> I'm not an expert on borders and how disputed borders are handled
> in OSM, so I forward this to the talk-list, because this probably
> needs more discussion.
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf
Richard
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Joost Schouppe wrote:
> Well the annoyance with spam does pop up often enough. The usual
> answer to things like this in the OSM ecosystem is "why don't you
> do it yourself". I've not seen this answer for spam. Is there no easy
> way for people to become spam-police if they like to do so?
The
Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Here I thought I was asking a simple question.
On an OSM mailing list? You must be new round here.
(More seriously, there were rumours of an event in Italy, but I've not heard
anything concrete.)
cheers
Richard
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Mikel Maron wrote:
> Reverts should be held to the same standard as imports (outside
> of obviously urgent problems).
Where a revert of an import (or other automated edit) is done by DWG because
an import did not follow the rules, reverting that import just goes back to
the status quo ante.
That
Sebastian Arcus wrote:
> Well, looking at the map, it looks like each and every parcel of
> land and section of field has a locality tag associated with it.
It's very common in the UK, too, for uninhabited sections of woodland and
hillside to have placenames.
> it still seems a bit odd - and beg
Andy Mabbett wrote:
> This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no
> "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing
> Happy Meal". for example).
Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street
View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by OS
Michał Brzozowski wrote:
> The rules for routing appear to be mostly global for popular
> routers. There is very little magical sauce, if any.
I wouldn't say that. Obviously the demo instances for OSRM and GraphHopper
use their own vanilla profiles, but other routers very often have customised
pr
Victor Grousset wrote:
> On 14/07/2016 17:35, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> > The person proposing the automated edit isn't the best placed
> > person to weigh that up: they're already convinced of the desirability
> > of the edit (which is why they're proposing
Éric Gillet wrote:
> However I'd believe that there is (in Europe for the example's sake) a
> very low number of restaurant really named McDonalds and not part
> of the franchise. So if the changeset correct 300 restaurants but 2
> are "damaged" by the automated edit, would the edit be bad enoug
Éric Gillet wrote:
> That would be slightly faster to execute than the first approach I was
> suggesting, but then how would you prove that you checked every
> and all features ?
Well, the best way to prove that you checked everything is not to fuck
things up, which of course you won't, because y
Éric Gillet wrote:
> In contrary to the Contributor Terms, these rules :
> - Doesn't seem to have been voted on before their "establishment"
The Code of Conduct is a document enforced and revised by DWG, with the
intention of codifying long-standing principles in OSM (principally,
"respect the wor
Andreas Vilén wrote:
> Post codes are also a little dubious, since those aren't open
> data in Sweden and can normally only be figured out through
> local knowledge
Perish the thought that people might add their local knowledge to OSM. I
thought it was all imports, armchairing and tagwanking the
Jeff Medaugh wrote:
> MapQuest is moving to a 100% cloud solution - the new
> infrastructure dictates that all tile access will require a key.
> Details on how to get keys, SDKs and general migration
> information is below:
Thanks for posting this.
Will there still be specific 'MapQuest Open'
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> We'd have to explain to Wikipedia users that what they see on our
> maps might not be what they expect, and that we do *not* want
> them to fix it...
I've just created a quick, friendly wiki page to explain that and other
differences:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/We
Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> I am not claiming that there are quick & easy ways to reduce
> complexity - but complexity has some real negative consequences.
The cycleway tagging mess has come about because a bunch of wikifiddlers
keep inventing ever more spurious and unnecessary tags - highway=path
David Marchal wrote:
> What is the applicability of the Wiki content?
Three long-standing principles of OSM:
1. consensus is important
2. precedent is important
3. patches beat "should"
The first means that you can't order the community to do things based on ten
people voting on the wik
Hi all,
Usage of the newb...@openstreetmap.org mailing list, set up in 2007 to
provide help to new users, has dwindled to almost nothing. There were no
posts in September, October, November, or December.
Generally we now have better places to provide help to new users -
principally http://he
Daniel Koć wrote:
> Oh, "Find Out More" page has some contact informations, but I
> guess "Contact" or "About us" would be easier to find.
The page recommends that you use IRC in the first instance, and also
suggests help.osm.org for asking questions. I really do not want to get into
providing u
Daniel Koć wrote:
> BTW: who is the maintainer of switch2osm site? I was not able to
> find any contact informations there.
I am, though a few other people also have admin/editing rights.
Richard
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Dave F. wrote:
> Is there an easy way to transfer the newer data into the
> original relation?
In P2:
- Select a way belonging to both relations, adding them if needs be
- In the \/ menu next to the new relation (Advanced panel), choose 'Select
all members'
- In the \/ menu next to the original r
Stefan Keller wrote:
> OSM2VectorTiles is a project simplifying installation of free
> world maps maintained by OpenStreetMap community.
Looks interesting - nice work!
If I may just pick you up on one statement in the thesis:
"There also exists a method[17] that circumvents using a database an
Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> Is it just me or is the OSM's built-in potlatch editor not currently
> working?
Should be fixed now. TomH identified that a Passenger upgrade caused
requests to break, though exactly why isn't yet clear...
Richard
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John Goodman wrote:
> And if its searching facility is braindead
Please avoid being gratuitously offensive by describing something that lots
of volunteers have put countless hours into as "braindead".
Thank you.
Richard
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Clifford Snow wrote:
> I want to make sure I cover the salient points that would interest
> cyclists. If you know of any websites that use bike routes or
> otherwise make use of OSM data that would really be great.
Where do I start...? :)
Cycling and OSM have long been bedfellows. In Europe gen
Ian Dees wrote:
> As someone currently planning a more community-focused SOTM US, I'd
> be interested in hearing what sort of changes you would propose to
> the existing SOTM structure.
It's a great question to ask; and I realise this may sound a little
contrarian, but I actually find myself enj
Blake Girardot wrote:
> As to the original issue Ramm raised:
Frederik's first name is Frederik. It's not that uncommon. :) Please can we
avoid this becoming _really_ unnecessarily confrontational by calling people
by their surnames in a sort of English public school style ("go it,
molesworth, sho
Christoph Hormann wrote:
> And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read:
>
> "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings
> and tag them landuse=residential"
>
> that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely
> to map reality, what's on the ground.
T
Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> Today, v2.36.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has
> been released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org
> servers. It might still take a couple of days before all tiles
> show the new rendering.
Congratulations to all involved - real dedication to the cause d
Malcolm Herring wrote:
> The copyright page on the Wiki seems to only refer to tiles
The canonical copyright pages for OSM are
http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License
not whatever Xxzme might have mauled on wiki.osm.org.
Richard
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moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
> The line is going through multiple buildings and a wide low
> wall. That's as unambiguous as it gets. The lack of any
> other sign on the grass and highway areas are an additional
> good hint. If you're mapping a railroad here, you're mapping
> the past.
Haha. I have
Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> Now it is done with railways and may be stopped. But if
> completely dismantled railways are not deleted from OSM
> what would stop somebody interested in mapping completely
> destroyed buildings, canals etc?
You're absolutely right.
We should also stop mapping bus r
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> But what if I have said the same thing five times already and the
> others STILL don't see that I'm RIGHT
Please try not to bring OSMF board meeting conventions onto the talk list.
cheers
Richard
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Ilya Zverev wrote (re: Xxzme):
> For me, it's clear that the ban did not work, and nothing has changed.
Quoting Xxzme on the wiki:
"What is clear to me is that you make ~0 improments to Main namespace
"And constantly repeating yourself with magical "purpose" of Beginners'
guide which was clearly
Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> Therefore I will delete any object that no longer exists or never
> existed (after communication with mapper or other method to
> verify whatever I am mistaken, with exception of highway=
> proposed).
OSM would be a better, and nicer, place if people went out and did ma
moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
> Remember that interpreting osm data is actually a lot of work.
> Very few people have the manpower to verify what railroad=
> dismantled actually mean to decide wheter they want to use
> or filter out that data. Most of them will just match railway=*,
> plus perhaps so
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> What everybody can see is a clearing or change in the surface
> of something. That's fine to map.
>
> Inferring from that that there must have been a railway there is a
> step too far. We are mappers, not trappers.
Ok, let's try an experiment.
Go to http://cycle.travel/m
Jo wrote:
> even more sorry you stopped being the lead developer of iD
For the record: the mantle of lead developer of iD passed to Tom and
John immediately after SOTM-US Portland because it was wonderfully clear
that their JavaScript skills are pretty much on a different planet to
mine, and I
In just over a week's time it's State of the Map US (yay). I'm giving a
talk which will touch on why people contribute to OSM - and how we can
get more!
I'd love to hear your story as to what got you started.
I know there's some good Serious Research on the topic, but for now I'm
more interes
Andy Mabbett wrote:
> In the absence of blatant vandalism or base abuse, I would
> have expected, first, a recent, clear and unequivocal warning on
> the user's talk page
No. Please remember that the primary means of discussion and consensus in
OSM is mailing lists, even when the subject is the
Ilya Zverev wrote:
> Who banned Xxzme in wiki a while ago? Please do it again.
Seconded.
Richard
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Dave F. wrote:
> On Richard F. cycle.travel routing. How do reset & start again?
There's a "Close route" button at the top of the turn-by-turn directions -
click that and it'll clear the route.
cheers
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brycenesbitt wrote:
> Are there any additional comments on the issue of importing (actually
> synchronizing) 500 bicycle repair stations?
> With this import OSM would become the most comprehensive database of
> repair station locations.
Where the location is good, it would be great to have these
Dave F. wrote:
> I still use P2, I've tried the others a few times, but keep
> returning. Is it still being developed? I've noticed a 'tasks'
> button has been added.
Yes, it is, albeit sporadically. Now it's free of the pressure of being the
default editor, it's able to gain a few more unusual
[Apologies to talk@ readers for this follow-up to a post on osmf-talk@.
I'm not an OSMF member and therefore can't post to osmf-talk@, but as
I'm being spoken about over there, I'd appreciate the opportunity to
respond.]
Steve Coast wrote:
See, there was no group that "mobbed" Richard out the
Michael Collinson wrote:
For transparency, I have attended about one year of board meetings now I
think (it is minuted). I took the approach that I should simply listen
and pick up items that the MT could handle. I was however encouraged to
take a more participatory role provided that I do not ta
I am a little concerned that the (already overwhelming) task of fixing
OSMF, which has been entrusted to a board of seven good people, is being
made still harder by people in mysterious unelected roles offering their
advice.
I know of at least two: Mike Collinson is chair of the (AIUI moribund
On 11/11/2014 20:57, Clifford Snow wrote:
Suggestion - set the tile background to transparent so we can see
underlying image in JOSM.
I can certainly have a look at doing that. Do you/anyone know whether
transparent tiles would still be usable in iD?
cheers
Richard
Hi all,
I've created a set of tiles from US Forest Service road data for the 155
US National Forests.
This is to help with TIGER fixup in these rural areas, where tracks,
trails and entirely non-existent paths are often tagged with a bare
"highway=residential". The US Forest Service data is
This one's going to be long, but it might be worth it, I hope.
I've been involved in OSM for almost ten years now. 22nd November is my
OSM birthday:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2004-November/000111.html
Message 000111. Right now talk@ is up to 71235, never mind the o
Simon Poole wrote:
Kathleen Danielson wrote:
That said, I would like to voice my support for Richard's
suggestion that the full board step down.
It simply is a very unrealistic option given that it would require a
mechanism that doesn't exist to force all board members to resign.
Absolutely n
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