Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Am 31.12.2008 07:49, Kenneth Gonsalves: On Wednesday 31 Dec 2008 12:02:01 pm brendan barrett wrote: On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Tanveer Singhtanveer1...@gmail.com wrote: what is sad about it? In India only the very big cities have yahoo imagery - and work is going on fairly well there. The rest of the country is a big blank, and GPS instruments are not all that affordable. As the price falls, things will improve. and work is going on fairly well there I wonder who decides what the correct pace is? all I can say is that it is much faster than last year and not as fast as next year ;-) If it were up to me i'd like the whole world mapped at street level yesterday. I'd prefer to accelerate the process as much as possible so that we can start mapping other things... or better yet, help out in other useful related projects. I'm never one to be satisfied with the way things are, and hence hold back. The sooner everything that's in Yahoo imagery is mapped, the sooner we can put that behind us and move to the next step (focusing on rural data perhaps? - not that is has to be done separately:P). there is a guy in Germany who has been tracing a lot of Indian cities - although I am a bit ambivalent about the results. Sure, the roads *are* being traced, but without names and also with guesses as to the road type. I sometimes wonder whether it is easier to delete and remap this than to correct what is done. I feel it is better to stick to mapping rivers, lakes and other features than to map roads without being familiar with the area. I am a guy in Germany who mapped some cities in *Iran* (Mashhad [1], some major streets of Bandar Abbas + complete island of Hormuz [2], major streets in Shiraz [3]). I had the help of some locals who supplied some names for places and streets. I guessed the initial street categories from the satellite imagery which worked quite well. Mapping the road network layout even without categories and names takes about 70% of the work of capturing the streets in my opinion as adding names, categories and restrictions is lot less time-intensive once you have the ways already. Happy tracing... Don't forget about northern asian countries like Casachstan, Usbekistan, Turkmenistan... They have hi-res Yahoo coverage as well. Claudius [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=36.2966lon=59.5937zoom=13layers=B000FTF [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=27.206lon=56.275zoom=11layers=B000FTF [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=29.6024lon=52.5477zoom=12layers=B000FTF ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Anyway, I find mapping footpaths in forests much more interesting than plain old residential streets and roads This really depends on where you live. If you live in a major city then you don't have much option but to map residential streets. Otherwise it's a special trip out to the countryside. Not something you can easily do in a lunch hour or after work. No no, in cities you can still map all the public 'footpath' alleyways between houses. One place took me quite a while to do, just because I needed several trips to avoid confusion of my GPS traces (knowing what was road, cyclepath, footpath, bad signal). http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.42659lon=-0.3824zoom=16layers=B000FTF -- Gregory nomoregra...@gmail.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
major streets in Shiraz [3]). I had the help of some locals who supplied some names for places and streets. Hi, How did you manage to contract the locals? Or did they pick up the fact that some roads were being put in without any names? Ciarán ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
I've only just joined the OSM Talk Mailing list and wanted to respond to this message... so i've pasted some of it below the jump. 80n... if you're bored in the evenings, how about thinking far away from home? South Africa has good aerial photography for the major cities (Yahoo Imagery)... wanna give us a hand down here? : P 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) To clarify, my immediate area is complete in every direction as far as I can go before meeting another area that is already mapped. And by complete I mean all everything down to post boxes but not as far as house numbers. As far as Surrey is concerned all towns and large villages are fairly well mapped. I don't think we can declare it finished yet but it's not far off. I don't know how other counties are doing. Are any others near to completion? 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Yes, there are lots of people in the first world mapping even the most irrelevant buildings in their villages, while in the third world there are large cities with good Yahoo imagery and nobody mapping them. Sad, isn't it? South Africa does not seem to need much help, by the way. Lucas De: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org en nombre de brendan barrett Enviado el: mar 30/12/2008 18:03 Para: talk@openstreetmap.org Asunto: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? I've only just joined the OSM Talk Mailing list and wanted to respond to this message... so i've pasted some of it below the jump. 80n... if you're bored in the evenings, how about thinking far away from home? South Africa has good aerial photography for the major cities (Yahoo Imagery)... wanna give us a hand down here? : P 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) To clarify, my immediate area is complete in every direction as far as I can go before meeting another area that is already mapped. And by complete I mean all everything down to post boxes but not as far as house numbers. As far as Surrey is concerned all towns and large villages are fairly well mapped. I don't think we can declare it finished yet but it's not far off. I don't know how other counties are doing. Are any others near to completion? 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Yeah, but there's still so much to map it'll keep people busy for months! Either way... I agree with your comment... let's think further afield when we're done with our own turf:P On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:29 PM, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio jldoming...@prodevelop.es wrote: Yes, there are lots of people in the first world mapping even the most irrelevant buildings in their villages, while in the third world there are large cities with good Yahoo imagery and nobody mapping them. Sad, isn't it? South Africa does not seem to need much help, by the way. Lucas De: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org en nombre de brendan barrett Enviado el: mar 30/12/2008 18:03 Para: talk@openstreetmap.org Asunto: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? I've only just joined the OSM Talk Mailing list and wanted to respond to this message... so i've pasted some of it below the jump. 80n... if you're bored in the evenings, how about thinking far away from home? South Africa has good aerial photography for the major cities (Yahoo Imagery)... wanna give us a hand down here? : P 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) To clarify, my immediate area is complete in every direction as far as I can go before meeting another area that is already mapped. And by complete I mean all everything down to post boxes but not as far as house numbers. As far as Surrey is concerned all towns and large villages are fairly well mapped. I don't think we can declare it finished yet but it's not far off. I don't know how other counties are doing. Are any others near to completion? 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
I guess you're right, Lucas. South Africa does not need the TLC that Manning talks about. Consider that street level maps are usually produced by government agencies. And that most African governments simply do not have the skills. So if we map these cities, it may actually improve tourism, city planning, logistics, property rights, emergency response, civil engineering etc. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Yahoo%21_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:29 PM, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio jldoming...@prodevelop.es wrote: Yes, there are lots of people in the first world mapping even the most irrelevant buildings in their villages, while in the third world there are large cities with good Yahoo imagery and nobody mapping them. Sad, isn't it? South Africa does not seem to need much help, by the way. Lucas De: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org en nombre de brendan barrett Enviado el: mar 30/12/2008 18:03 Para: talk@openstreetmap.org Asunto: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? I've only just joined the OSM Talk Mailing list and wanted to respond to this message... so i've pasted some of it below the jump. 80n... if you're bored in the evenings, how about thinking far away from home? South Africa has good aerial photography for the major cities (Yahoo Imagery)... wanna give us a hand down here? : P 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) To clarify, my immediate area is complete in every direction as far as I can go before meeting another area that is already mapped. And by complete I mean all everything down to post boxes but not as far as house numbers. As far as Surrey is concerned all towns and large villages are fairly well mapped. I don't think we can declare it finished yet but it's not far off. I don't know how other counties are doing. Are any others near to completion? 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Tuesday 30 Dec 2008 10:59:15 pm Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio wrote: there are lots of people in the first world mapping even the most irrelevant buildings in their villages, while in the third world there are large cities with good Yahoo imagery and nobody mapping them. Sad, isn't it what is sad about it? In India only the very big cities have yahoo imagery - and work is going on fairly well there. The rest of the country is a big blank, and GPS instruments are not all that affordable. As the price falls, things will improve. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: On Tuesday 30 Dec 2008 10:59:15 pm Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio wrote: there are lots of people in the first world mapping even the most irrelevant buildings in their villages, while in the third world there are large cities with good Yahoo imagery and nobody mapping them. Sad, isn't it what is sad about it? In India only the very big cities have yahoo imagery - and work is going on fairly well there. The rest of the country is a big blank, and GPS instruments are not all that affordable. As the price falls, things will improve. I hape mapped many regions around where I live, but many remote places are blanks. I will start mapping them once I figure out how to upload gpx trails without timestamps. My lowrance does not dump timestamps, so until I get a new unit(hopefully soon), You will see lot of rural India also getting mapped as I get around a lot. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Tanveer Singh tanveer1...@gmail.com wrote: what is sad about it? In India only the very big cities have yahoo imagery - and work is going on fairly well there. The rest of the country is a big blank, and GPS instruments are not all that affordable. As the price falls, things will improve. and work is going on fairly well there I wonder who decides what the correct pace is? If it were up to me i'd like the whole world mapped at street level yesterday. I'd prefer to accelerate the process as much as possible so that we can start mapping other things... or better yet, help out in other useful related projects. I'm never one to be satisfied with the way things are, and hence hold back. The sooner everything that's in Yahoo imagery is mapped, the sooner we can put that behind us and move to the next step (focusing on rural data perhaps? - not that is has to be done separately:P). Just a thought. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Wednesday 31 Dec 2008 12:02:01 pm brendan barrett wrote: On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Tanveer Singh tanveer1...@gmail.com wrote: what is sad about it? In India only the very big cities have yahoo imagery - and work is going on fairly well there. The rest of the country is a big blank, and GPS instruments are not all that affordable. As the price falls, things will improve. and work is going on fairly well there I wonder who decides what the correct pace is? all I can say is that it is much faster than last year and not as fast as next year ;-) If it were up to me i'd like the whole world mapped at street level yesterday. I'd prefer to accelerate the process as much as possible so that we can start mapping other things... or better yet, help out in other useful related projects. I'm never one to be satisfied with the way things are, and hence hold back. The sooner everything that's in Yahoo imagery is mapped, the sooner we can put that behind us and move to the next step (focusing on rural data perhaps? - not that is has to be done separately:P). there is a guy in Germany who has been tracing a lot of Indian cities - although I am a bit ambivalent about the results. Sure, the roads *are* being traced, but without names and also with guesses as to the road type. I sometimes wonder whether it is easier to delete and remap this than to correct what is done. I feel it is better to stick to mapping rivers, lakes and other features than to map roads without being familiar with the area. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: there is a guy in Germany who has been tracing a lot of Indian cities - although I am a bit ambivalent about the results. Sure, the roads *are* being traced, but without names and also with guesses as to the road type. I sometimes wonder whether it is easier to delete and remap this than to correct what is done. I feel it is better to stick to mapping rivers, lakes and other features than to map roads without being familiar with the area. I'm am also a bit unsure. But having an initial draft of the roads in the DB does have some advantages. Then can you survey with a mobile device or a printed copy of the map and know how where to look for unnamed streets. And gosmore may use a thoroughfare that locals are not used to, forcing them to investigate. Frederik's idea of the current DB being a placeholder for the final DB. IMHO roads (even unnamed roads) are much more valuable than rivers, railway lines and building outlines. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
however, the recent drop-off in mappers correlates very nicely with the fall in non-business sunshine hours. and is slightly correlated with mean daytime temperature (at least in the UK). If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. I haven't actually stopped, it's just slowed down. But I imagine others that could stop temporarily. i've pretty much stopped - the flash on my camera drains the battery too quickly for night-time mapping... What about weekends though? I do almost all my mapping at weekends, even in the summer, and managed to do some mapping on all 10 weekend days in November. :-) Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Christoph Böhme wrote: Sent: 01 December 2008 11:23 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? Hi! Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I reckon I have one more season of mapping to the north of Birmingham (Walsall, Brownhills, Cannock and Lichfield etc) before like some other contributors I'll need to refocus my mapping or move house. I'm already mapping 10 miles from home and it really isn't justifiable to map further out. Perhaps we should cancel the push to finish Birmingham and have only very small crumbles from the remaining cake so that it lasts longer? If we only do two or three streets every other weekend it could last for another year. :-) Oh, I don't know, I think there are still plenty of dragons close enough just on the other side of the M5 that could keep you happy for a little longer :-) Nice to see that we are still on target for a Brum finish :-) Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Graham, This sounds like the makings of a plan! When would you think the ideal timing would be? When the weather is reliable and not taking your regular custom away? Maybe if you could set up a wiki page with some details and travel options to the area we (the osm community) can jointly get something set up. I'm sure those attending would ensure your costs are covered. Sounds like it could be a cool social and mapping gathering. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 December 2008 12:50 AM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Cc: 'osm' Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: graham wrote: Sent: 01 December 2008 4:07 PM To: osm Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? I've just realised - I have a house to let in a beautiful largely unmapped part of Italy and was wondering where to find customers. Now I know ;-) What part? How Big? Is it available for a mapping party :-) http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=42.45526825544973lon=13.927090173991406 zoom=17layers=BF000F The area is Abruzzo. Penne (my town) itself is 'done' - except that a lot is guesswork as the streets are too narrow to get a good signal and you have to do it from odd points. None of the other small towns in the area are even started. We've just about done the 'A' roads but lots of the others are undone. For the rest of Abruzzo: one person has done Pescara (the capital, on the coast) and one Montesilvano, which joins on to it. One person is doing Lanciano further south, and one just started on L'Aquila (the other big town), but all the other towns the same size as Penne (eg. Chieti, Citta Sant Angelo, Atri) are still to do. There's another person in osm with a house to let near Teramo (also not mapped), about 40km north of Penne but the road between is so wiggly it makes me feel ill.. It's a very hilly area, you need to be fit if you're cycling (and I don't have a bike there) - but loads of little kids go shooting up the hills, cycling is a big sport in the area. Obviously it's flatter near the coast; the mountain has a huge plateau on top with trails and horse trekking routes - not in winter though. There is a lot of scope for walking mapping round small old towns, and for driving mapping round country roads. My place has one double-bedroom, one with two single beds, one living room with sofa bed, two bathrooms. For a mapping party I'd have to cover my (fairly minimal) costs but have convinced my missis we could do it without charging otherwise, as long as it isn't in the really peak season. There is an english lady in Penne who runs a BB and does walking tours - she is grumbling about the lack of available printed maps to give her customers, and I was hoping to get round to doing a contour map and experimenting with putting one of her walking routes on it. She might be very amenable to letting her BB (actually a floor in an old palazzo) be used if she knew she might be getting something like that back from it.. Cheers Graham Cheers Andy No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1823 - Release Date: 01/12/2008 7:59 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Several suggestions have already been made in response to Andy's comment. Last night I jotted down just a few, before reading all my inbox, so may duplicate. I have listed some northern winter thinks you can be doing - IN and OUT of the warm If you think your local area is pretty well covered, IS IT? Check the nonames layer. Get out and collect those missing namesIN and OUT Ditto for maplint layer. Get out and sort them out. IN and OUT Use the excellent OSM Inspector. There is loads you can do to sort out errant geometry for instance. IN Do some landuse mapping. Easy to walk/bike your local area and tag for residential, retail, industrial, etc OUT Use local knowledge or published listings (eg local authority schools lists) to crosscheck that you have all POIs. Get out and map any that aren't included in OSM database. IN and OUT Check whether your country's capital city has a capital=yes tag. If not add it to it's node. Maybe then we can show capitals at lower zooms and start making the blank early zooms more useful. IN Ditto for country names of your immediate neighbours, maybe using osmxapi to check whether it exists in db already. Again maybe we could then show country names at lower zooms. IN Increasingly there will be a need to concentrate on the quality of the data and the currency of the data in the osm db. For many this isn't as exciting as geting out with GPS and mapping white spaces but is fundamental to the future usefulness of osm data. Finally, of course there are masses of non-mapping activities that need loving care and attention - the wiki and applications/coding being just two. So - don't hibernate, activate. Cheers STEVE -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Sent: Mon 12/1/2008 12:59 PM To: 'osm' Cc: Subject: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? The latest charts are now online [1] and they show that the number of contributors has dropped in the last couple of months. The number of new users signing up each day hasn't changed much. Is it the northern hemisphere winter kicking in? Has the credit crunch or fuel prices made a difference? Students returning to studies? If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. Cheers Andy [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Database_Statistics_-_Graphical; ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) Same here. Or at the very least rename some roads please :-) spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Tuesday 02 Dec 2008 4:23:23 pm Sebastian Spaeth wrote: 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) Same here. Or at the very least rename some roads please :-) migrate to India ;-) -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
The latest charts are now online [1] and they show that the number of contributors has dropped in the last couple of months. The number of new users signing up each day hasn't changed much. Is it the northern hemisphere winter kicking in? Has the credit crunch or fuel prices made a difference? Students returning to studies? If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. Cheers Andy [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Database_Statistics_-_Graphical; ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latest charts are now online [1] and they show that the number of contributors has dropped in the last couple of months. The number of new users signing up each day hasn't changed much. Is it the northern hemisphere winter kicking in? Has the credit crunch or fuel prices made a difference? Students returning to studies? If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. Cheers Andy [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Database_Statistics_-_Graphical; ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) I think you'll find that if you start mapping footpaths, it'll at least partly solve the problem. Footpaths, by definition, cannot (legally) be cycled on so you have to do them on foot. Which means your number of miles mapped per hour of mapping drops off to a much lower level. You'll feel you've wasted your time the first time you see the results, but that feeling soon goes. :-) Donald ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
2008/12/1 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) There's the whole world of addresses open to you + you could always move house :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
2008/12/1 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) Indeed, I think that the stat doesn't say much. In crowded areas like Germany or UK, there will be a time where there won't be anything left to map. The real interesting stat is to see what is happening in areas where there is still much to do, but that would need to take the location of the users and the density of the map into account. - Chris - ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Andy asked: If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. I've not stopped as such, but there are a number of factors that mean I can't contribute as much as I did initially. When I started mapping I went out for about an hour each evening after work capturing the local roads using GPS and then mapping them when I got home. There were a lot to do. I can't do that now because: * It's dark by the time I finish work * Most of the local roads are done, so an hour doesn't really give me the time to get any roads that need tracing and back So now I'm limited to taking strange routes to get from A to B to try and add POIs, which in terms of number of points contributed will be much fewer. Oh, and I had three hours on Saturday free that I spent driving around Harwich, Dovercourt, and Parkeston, adding the details to the map on Sunday though someone had helpfully traced many of my Saturday uploaded GPX tracks already so I really just had to apply tags in most cases and add the POIs from the photos imported against the relevant track in JOSM. I would guess that many of the well populated areas may have similar issues, in that they need to go further afield now to map. The new contributors won't be evenly distributed across the planet (unfortunately), so many of them will find that if they live in well populated areas much of the stuff will be mapped. I'll be back in Dovercourt on Wednesday evening and in Wheatley and Oxford on Thursday afternoon/evening/Friday morning but while I'll take the GT-31 with me I doubt I'll find much to add new while I'm there, though looking at the UK A roads project pages I might be able to find a route to take in the A120 around Braintree, though need to check that it hasn't already been done and the wiki page not updated. Ed PS: Just seen the other responses which suggest mapping footpaths and house numbers. It's something I've considered, and indeed I did a few footpaths one evening when walking into town, but again you can't really get far if you have an hour to get there and back, plus it is now dark and cold(er) in the evenings. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. I have almost stopped mapping in the latest month or two for a couple of reasons: * less light in the evening: I can't see/take a pic of street names when returning home in the evening, especially if it is also raining and/or foggy * rain and a little snow: not exactly something that encourages outdoor activities :) (but wait for some decent snow and I will be back mapping :) ) * a few other reason that prevented me from having free time for mapping anyway, it's just temporary, I've already had a couple abstinence crisis, so I hope to be back mapping soon :) -- Elena of Valhalla homepage: http://www.trueelena.org email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On 1 Dec 2008, at 14:56, Elena of Valhalla wrote: On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. My mapping has been really sporadic this year as I don't have anything particularly local to work on. I did go out for a big 3 hour session at the weekend so hopefully that'll help to turn the graph around :-) John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Donald Allwright wrote: Sent: 01 December 2008 2:13 PM To: 80n; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) I think you'll find that if you start mapping footpaths, it'll at least partly solve the problem. Footpaths, by definition, cannot (legally) be cycled on so you have to do them on foot. Which means your number of miles mapped per hour of mapping drops off to a much lower level. You'll feel you've wasted your time the first time you see the results, but that feeling soon goes. :-) At 9:00am on a Sunday morning, the meaning of no cycling on urban footpaths mysteriously disappears :-) Seriously though, last winter I added the local unpaved public footpaths that fingered out into the countryside around me. I'll be doing more this winter but then that will have about wrapped them up. I reckon I have one more season of mapping to the north of Birmingham (Walsall, Brownhills, Cannock and Lichfield etc) before like some other contributors I'll need to refocus my mapping or move house. I'm already mapping 10 miles from home and it really isn't justifiable to map further out. The real challenge as has been pointed out is the white space without a nearby contributor. Especially in the sparsely populated locations of our planet Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
At 9:00am on a Sunday morning, the meaning of no cycling on urban footpaths mysteriously disappears :-) Unfortunately the mud doesn't, which if Saturday is anything to go by would have been a bit too much for my non-mountain bike :-) The real challenge as has been pointed out is the white space without a nearby contributor. Especially in the sparsely populated locations of our planet Last winter I spent many dark evenings tracing the jungle rivers and mountain lakes in Peru from the yahoo satellite images. The vast majority of this will be nigh-on impossible to map using a GPS, so I considered this to be a useful contribution in an area previously mostly empty (OSM-wise). Some of these have probably never been mapped to this level of accuracy before. And I still haven't finished yet (Lakes are only about half-way up the country, and most of the coastal rivers still need doing), so I reckon that'll keep me going this winter. Bolivia and Brazil still have a lot of water unmapped, so that would be something you could consider. I'm sure there are many other parts of the world with similar needs. As urban areas lend themselves well to on-the-ground mappers with GPS devices these are better left to locals who can gather street names, but even here I reckon there's room for basic mapping of major highways from satellite, as that will form a framework around which people on the ground can organise their own mapping. For example people might decide to map completely a square enclosed by roads, rivers etc., but unless these features are already on the map it's harder to plan something like this. When I actually got to visit one such road I was able to adjust it on the basis of GPS data, thus improving the accuracy. Donald ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
How about covering your area with land use data using yahoo/landsat? It's something I do occasionally at the end of the work day when I'm totally exhausted - it's a nice dumb work which helps my brain turn off. And it comes handy for various hiking maps (example of my area: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.5045lon=15.534zoom=12layers=0B00FTF). Anyway, I find mapping footpaths in forests much more interesting than plain old residential streets and roads - fewer people tend to cover them and sometimes it turns out be a real adventure - getting lost or meeting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wild_Boar_Habbitat_3.jpg Not to mention the health benefits ;) Igor Donald Allwright wrote: At 9:00am on a Sunday morning, the meaning of no cycling on urban footpaths mysteriously disappears :-) Unfortunately the mud doesn't, which if Saturday is anything to go by would have been a bit too much for my non-mountain bike :-) The real challenge as has been pointed out is the white space without a nearby contributor. Especially in the sparsely populated locations of our planet Last winter I spent many dark evenings tracing the jungle rivers and mountain lakes in Peru from the yahoo satellite images. The vast majority of this will be nigh-on impossible to map using a GPS, so I considered this to be a useful contribution in an area previously mostly empty (OSM-wise). Some of these have probably never been mapped to this level of accuracy before. And I still haven't finished yet (Lakes are only about half-way up the country, and most of the coastal rivers still need doing), so I reckon that'll keep me going this winter. Bolivia and Brazil still have a lot of water unmapped, so that would be something you could consider. I'm sure there are many other parts of the world with similar needs. As urban areas lend themselves well to on-the-ground mappers with GPS devices these are better left to locals who can gather street names, but even here I reckon there's room for basic mapping of major highways from satellite, as that will form a framework around which people on the ground can organise their own mapping. For example people might decide to map completely a square enclosed by roads, rivers etc., but unless these features are already on the map it's harder to plan something like this. When I actually got to visit one such road I was able to adjust it on the basis of GPS data, thus improving the accuracy. Donald ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) Surrey is finished??!! Congratulations, I missed that! I've just realised - I have a house to let in a beautiful largely unmapped part of Italy and was wondering where to find customers. Now I know ;-) Graham On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latest charts are now online [1] and they show that the number of contributors has dropped in the last couple of months. The number of new users signing up each day hasn't changed much. Is it the northern hemisphere winter kicking in? Has the credit crunch or fuel prices made a difference? Students returning to studies? If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. Cheers Andy [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Database_Statistics_-_Graphical; ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Igor Brejc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent: 01 December 2008 3:57 PM To: Donald Allwright Cc: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists); 80n; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? How about covering your area with land use data using yahoo/landsat? It's something I do occasionally at the end of the work day when I'm totally exhausted - it's a nice dumb work which helps my brain turn off. And it comes handy for various hiking maps (example of my area: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.5045lon=15.534zoom=12layers=0B00FTF ). Anyway, I find mapping footpaths in forests much more interesting than plain old residential streets and roads - fewer people tend to cover them and sometimes it turns out be a real adventure - getting lost or meeting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wild_Boar_Habbitat_3.jpg Not to mention the health benefits ;) This really depends on where you live. If you live in a major city then you don't have much option but to map residential streets. Otherwise it's a special trip out to the countryside. Not something you can easily do in a lunch hour or after work. A few locations excepted (eg the USA) the majority of urban conurbations don't have Yahoo aerial imagery. Landsat is fine for generality but isn't detailed enough to be of any use whatsoever in an urban sprawl. You get much better results from detailed on the ground mapping in these instances. Landsat is however a great starting point for blank areas of the map, especially were water is present. Perhaps we should all strive to pick an area of the world and add what we can from Landsat. Would be a useful drive, especially for those that don't much like tracing Yahoo! or those that use JOSM and find displaying Yahoo! a faff. Cheers Andy Igor Donald Allwright wrote: At 9:00am on a Sunday morning, the meaning of no cycling on urban footpaths mysteriously disappears :-) Unfortunately the mud doesn't, which if Saturday is anything to go by would have been a bit too much for my non-mountain bike :-) The real challenge as has been pointed out is the white space without a nearby contributor. Especially in the sparsely populated locations of our planet Last winter I spent many dark evenings tracing the jungle rivers and mountain lakes in Peru from the yahoo satellite images. The vast majority of this will be nigh-on impossible to map using a GPS, so I considered this to be a useful contribution in an area previously mostly empty (OSM-wise). Some of these have probably never been mapped to this level of accuracy before. And I still haven't finished yet (Lakes are only about half-way up the country, and most of the coastal rivers still need doing), so I reckon that'll keep me going this winter. Bolivia and Brazil still have a lot of water unmapped, so that would be something you could consider. I'm sure there are many other parts of the world with similar needs. As urban areas lend themselves well to on-the-ground mappers with GPS devices these are better left to locals who can gather street names, but even here I reckon there's room for basic mapping of major highways from satellite, as that will form a framework around which people on the ground can organise their own mapping. For example people might decide to map completely a square enclosed by roads, rivers etc., but unless these features are already on the map it's harder to plan something like this. When I actually got to visit one such road I was able to adjust it on the basis of GPS data, thus improving the accuracy. Donald ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- http://igorbrejc.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1821 - Release Date: 30/11/2008 5:53 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
graham wrote: Sent: 01 December 2008 4:07 PM To: osm Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? I've just realised - I have a house to let in a beautiful largely unmapped part of Italy and was wondering where to find customers. Now I know ;-) What part? How Big? Is it available for a mapping party :-) Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
It's very common in Bolivia at least that river have very different water levels, is there a tag for this? Usually you have a large riverbed and then a very small river running in the middle for most part of the year, and then sometimes it will flood all the way up to the riverbanks. I have take the approach that the 'river' is the part where vegetation doesn't grow. A lot of the time much of this won't actually be underwater, but the actual channel within the riverbed will change very rapidly, possibly with every flooding, whereas the river bed itself will change less rapidly (but still rapidly enough that, say, 10 years down the line it will be significantly different). This is also relatively easy to tell from even low-res satellite imagery - unless the river bed has green mud of course! Looked at another way, the vegetation is there because that area hasn't had a flood severe enough to wash it away, at least within the timespan it takes for the vegetation to grow. Having said that, if anyone can think of a better way of doing this I'm open to suggestions. I think in reality though the concept of 'edge of the river' is fairly ill-defined in areas where it hasn't been interfered with by mankind, in much the same way as the location of a coastline changes. The fact is that the coastline oscillates nearly twice a day, and low-water and high-water are merely approximations that allow us to put something on a map. You wouldn't want to build a house between the two lines though. Donald ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Monday 01 December 2008 13:59:32 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: The latest charts are now online [1] and they show that the number of contributors has dropped in the last couple of months. The number of new users signing up each day hasn't changed much. Is it the northern hemisphere winter kicking in? Has the credit crunch or fuel prices made a difference? Students returning to studies? I'd say winter. It's definitely the case for me (Sweden) and if you look at the statistics you will find exactly the same dip during the same period last year. If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. I haven't actually stopped, it's just slowed down. But I imagine others that could stop temporarily. -Inge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Inge Wallin schrieb: On Monday 01 December 2008 13:59:32 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: The latest charts are now online [1] and they show that the number of contributors has dropped in the last couple of months. The number of new users signing up each day hasn't changed much. Is it the northern hemisphere winter kicking in? Has the credit crunch or fuel prices made a difference? Students returning to studies? I'd say winter. It's definitely the case for me (Sweden) and if you look at the statistics you will find exactly the same dip during the same period last year. Yes, the weather is one issue. But i would love it to map in a snow-covered landscape :-) Jonas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Monday 01 December 2008 15:00, 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) +1 And I don't care about street numbers -- Sylvain Letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] qui suis-je : http://slyserv.dyndns.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:07 PM, graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) Surrey is finished??!! Congratulations, I missed that! To clarify, my immediate area is complete in every direction as far as I can go before meeting another area that is already mapped. And by complete I mean all everything down to post boxes but not as far as house numbers. As far as Surrey is concerned all towns and large villages are fairly well mapped. I don't think we can declare it finished yet but it's not far off. I don't know how other counties are doing. Are any others near to completion? 80n I've just realised - I have a house to let in a beautiful largely unmapped part of Italy and was wondering where to find customers. Now I know ;-) Graham On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latest charts are now online [1] and they show that the number of contributors has dropped in the last couple of months. The number of new users signing up each day hasn't changed much. Is it the northern hemisphere winter kicking in? Has the credit crunch or fuel prices made a difference? Students returning to studies? If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. Cheers Andy [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Database_Statistics_-_Graphical; ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
80n wrote: Sent: 01 December 2008 5:38 PM To: graham Cc: osm Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:07 PM, graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) Surrey is finished??!! Congratulations, I missed that! To clarify, my immediate area is complete in every direction as far as I can go before meeting another area that is already mapped. And by complete I mean all everything down to post boxes but not as far as house numbers. As far as Surrey is concerned all towns and large villages are fairly well mapped. I don't think we can declare it finished yet but it's not far off. I don't know how other counties are doing. Are any others near to completion? Rutland of course still needs a lot of the rural highways and bridleways adding but is otherwise in good shape from the previous mapping party. Probably next up will be Cheshire which Chris Morley, Richard Bullock and others have been steadily knocking off. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Andy == Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Andy, Andy If anyone out there who was contributing in the summer and has now Andy stopped could share the reasons I might help shed some light. I got my 1st GPS (76CSx) few days ago and do not own bike (yet), although preparing the house in the country-side where we'll move in 4 months. The whole area as well as 'my' country is not covered much, so I'm looking forward to start working (aka: contributing) to OSM project. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D pgpRLeBYAMjRD.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: graham wrote: Sent: 01 December 2008 4:07 PM To: osm Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? I've just realised - I have a house to let in a beautiful largely unmapped part of Italy and was wondering where to find customers. Now I know ;-) What part? How Big? Is it available for a mapping party :-) http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=42.45526825544973lon=13.927090173991406zoom=17layers=BF000F The area is Abruzzo. Penne (my town) itself is 'done' - except that a lot is guesswork as the streets are too narrow to get a good signal and you have to do it from odd points. None of the other small towns in the area are even started. We've just about done the 'A' roads but lots of the others are undone. For the rest of Abruzzo: one person has done Pescara (the capital, on the coast) and one Montesilvano, which joins on to it. One person is doing Lanciano further south, and one just started on L'Aquila (the other big town), but all the other towns the same size as Penne (eg. Chieti, Citta Sant Angelo, Atri) are still to do. There's another person in osm with a house to let near Teramo (also not mapped), about 40km north of Penne but the road between is so wiggly it makes me feel ill.. It's a very hilly area, you need to be fit if you're cycling (and I don't have a bike there) - but loads of little kids go shooting up the hills, cycling is a big sport in the area. Obviously it's flatter near the coast; the mountain has a huge plateau on top with trails and horse trekking routes - not in winter though. There is a lot of scope for walking mapping round small old towns, and for driving mapping round country roads. My place has one double-bedroom, one with two single beds, one living room with sofa bed, two bathrooms. For a mapping party I'd have to cover my (fairly minimal) costs but have convinced my missis we could do it without charging otherwise, as long as it isn't in the really peak season. There is an english lady in Penne who runs a BB and does walking tours - she is grumbling about the lack of available printed maps to give her customers, and I was hoping to get round to doing a contour map and experimenting with putting one of her walking routes on it. She might be very amenable to letting her BB (actually a floor in an old palazzo) be used if she knew she might be getting something like that back from it.. Cheers Graham Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:00 PM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) We need more volunteers in Metro manila ;) http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?lat=14.594717284692324lon=121.03235961646361zoom=11 You have two options: 1. Visit us and start cycling our roads. It sunny here and there's no winter. 2. Yahoo! cheers, maning -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ | | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ | |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This really depends on where you live. If you live in a major city then you don't have much option but to map residential streets. Otherwise it's a special trip out to the countryside. Not something you can easily do in a lunch hour or after work. Yes, but it depends. In most German cities public transport systems are not that bad. With a bus or lightrail or even riding your bike it does not take more than 15 or 30 minutes you are in the woods (sad story, riding additional 15 or 30 minutes you will reach the next village or town...). A few locations excepted (eg the USA) the majority of urban conurbations don't have Yahoo aerial imagery. Yahoo just recently started to serve more images in the Northern Bavaria (Franconia). It's worth checking from time to time. -- Karl Eichwalder ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
