Re: [Talk-ca] OSM and Open Data Imports - Chicago Experience

[Jonathan Brown]

Stirling Quinn pointed out this presentation on the topic of imports by Ian 
Dees and need for input on tagging from OSM global community, not just the 
local OSM community. He also covers licensing issue and misrepresentation of 
city should the data be used incorrectly. He “harassed” Chief Data Officer 
until the city adopted MIT license for the city’s open data and posted their 
open data in Github stripped of personal information (e.g., name of building 
owner). He talks about how it is now much easier with the building import for 
OSM mappers to geocode and the community became a lot stronger for testing 
civic apps (see 66 page document co-authored by Chicago OSM map users and users 
at CutGroup#6:OpenStreetMap Editor 
http://www.smartchicagocollaborative.org/cutgroup-6-openstreetmap-editor/ that 
helped bridge the gap between OSM developers and open data community in Chicago 
– a direct result of his importing open city data and engaging the user 
community. Being on Github and resolving issues by making poll requests is an 
interesting process despite the large size of the datasets. 

Jonathan 

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in
  Crowdsourcing Platforms (Jonathan Brown)
   2. Re: Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in
  Crowdsourcing Platforms (John Whelan)
   3. Re: Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in
  Crowdsourcing Platforms (OSM Volunteer stevea)
   4. Re: Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in
  Crowdsourcing Platforms (Pierre Béland)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 11:28:03 -0400
From: Jonathan Brown 
To: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary
Participation in Crowdsourcing Platforms
Message-ID: <5bdc6d05.1c69fb81.5a176.d...@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Apropos the ongoing efforts to educate new volunteers, the discussion section 
of this research paper on enablers and barriers may be useful 
https://ac.els-cdn.com/S0747563216305295/1-s2.0-S0747563216305295-main.pdf?_tid=31ea73b8-7cb4-4eca-acc4-062aa79c278b=1541171937_ecb61791a7d798a1491503b71f69b0ab
 

Jonathan 

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:31:35 -0400
From: John Whelan 
To: Jonathan Brown 
Cc: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary
Participation in Crowdsourcing Platforms
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

My feeling is OpenStreetMap has two sides. The first is local adding 
local knowledge to the map.  The other I'll call armchair mapping.  When 
Stats Canada did the pilot it tapped the local Ottawa mappers who meet 
physically.

I would agree that amongst mappers with the most edits there is a high 
number of retired people and those with disabilities involved and these 
may not be visible.  Tapping them for groups coming together to map can 
be a problem.

In my view typically the most productive mappers are those with a 
special interest.  Adding WiFi access or churches for example or even a 
change of street name.

We also have a number of teachers who would like to use OSM and in 
particular the building project to involve their students.  We get a 
fair amount of data added but the quality can be questionable.  HOT and 
others I think have found that using a restricted set of tasks and tags 
works best.

My personal feeling is giving feedback is useful.  So the challenge for 
the building project is how to engage people.  What are the most useful 
tags to add?

I'd suggest some sort of web site giving the number of buildings mapped 
and the tags that have been added by city.  Graphs with time as one axis 
would be nice.

Certainly certain activities are more complex than others.  Importing 
buildings is not a task I'd suggest for teenage mapper with twenty 
minutes experience.  Breaking out the tasks is a task in itself and for 
4 million bui

Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[James]

if anyone needs a TM or micro data service, I'm available for this

On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 7:32 p.m. John Whelan  This approach seems very sensible however Pierre has raised the issue of
> poorly mapped buildings and we are aware that some were mapped in a
> mapathon environment so whilst Ottawa used a "leave existing buildings
> alone" approach is this an area where some judgement should be used?  and
> yes I am aware that the official party line is to correct what is there to
> retain the history which means taking the "Ottawa" approach is less
> controversial but would probably give us more inaccuracies on the map.
>
> An alternative might be to import all the buildings with a different tag
> than building=yes then leave it to mappers to inspect each before turning
> the switch or change the tags to building=yes.  Those that overlap poorly
> mapped buildings could be left to some sort of clean up phase.
>
> Thanks John
>
> Matthew Darwin wrote on 2018-11-02 7:07 PM:
>
> I think we should identify who would like to be involved in import for
> each municipality.  (on a wiki page). On the page, identify roles, like:
>
>- coordinator
>- import data preparation
>- QA
>- import execution
>- data enrichment (commercial, residential, etc... tagging)
>- etc..
>
> Then we can see where we have gaps and how to fill them.  Perhaps some
> municipalities have local mappers who will be happy to do the tagging of
> building type (and can do some validation if the buildings look right), but
> no technical capability to execute the actual import.  And maybe some folks
> who did imports before will help areas where we have no technical expertise.
>
>
> On 2018-11-02 6:58 p.m., John Whelan wrote:
>
>
>
> So to paraphrase your reply.  A centralised import plan in the wiki which
> says the data is approved for import and should be tackled in chunks of
> some sort of region since we are a decentralized organization.  Which I
> think is similar to the way Task Manager works.  The project is broken into
> tiles and each tile is tackled completed separately. The 'Tiles' would of
> course be somewhat larger in area and there is a technical limitation as to
> how big an area can be downloaded from the OSM server.
>
> The local mappers certainly have a role to play and because the goal is
> not only to import the buildings but to enrich the tags with commercial etc
> so the tag enrichment would be a task that a mapathon could tackle.  I
> personally don't think a new mapper using iD in a mapathon has a role to
> play in importing the building outlines into OSM.
>
> The plan should include the technical steps to import the data.
>
> Thanks
>
> Cheerio John
>
> Pierre Béland wrote on 2018-11-02 6:35 PM:
>
> Pour le Québec, je retrouve les données de plusieurs municipalités
> Montréal, Longueuil, Repentigny, Shawinigan, Québec et Rimouski.
>
> Première observation rapide, aussi, elles sont de bonne qualité et
> proviennent je suppose des cadastres des municipalités. En milieu urbain,
> cela facilite beaucoup l'identification des immeubles juxtaposés.
>
> Je vois ailleurs, aux États-Unis notamment avec les données de Microsoft,
> que les projets sont par région ou municipalité.
>
> Je pense qu'il faut éviter un projet trop centralisé tant pour assurer un
> meilleur contrôle du déroulement dans chaque municipalité, région que pour
> permettre aux communautés des provinces et communautés locales de
> s'impliquer.
>
> La rédaction d' une page wiki pour l'ensemble du Canada peut répondre aux
> exigences du groupe Import de OSM. Mais l'organisation doit être
> décentralisée.
>
> Le rôle de cette liste doit être un forum pour supporter les communautés
> des provinces et communautés locales. C'est une occasion de dynamiser ces
> communautés avec un projet très intéressant. De là, ils auront le goût de
> compléter la carte pour y décrire les infrastructures locales.
>
> Si trop de tâches sont initiées en parallèle sur un gestionnaire de
> tâches, il sera très difficile de coordonner, assurer le suivi, une
> progression coordonnée. Il faut éviter que des mapathons ou organisations
> externes s'invitent pour collaborer à de telles tâches avec les milliers et
> milliers de personnes qui viennent jardiner quelques heures sans
> organisation / formation réelle et laissent ensuite le tout sans dessus,
> dessous.
>
>
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> 
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[John Whelan]

This approach seems very sensible however Pierre has raised the issue of 
poorly mapped buildings and we are aware that some were mapped in a 
mapathon environment so whilst Ottawa used a"leave existing buildings 
alone" approach is this an area where some judgement should be used?  
and yes I am aware that the official party line is to correct what is 
there to retain the history which means taking the "Ottawa" approach is 
less controversial but would probably give us more inaccuracies on the map.


An alternative might be to import all the buildings with a different tag 
than building=yes then leave it to mappers to inspect each before 
turning the switch or change the tags to building=yes.  Those that 
overlap poorly mapped buildings could be left to some sort of clean up 
phase.


Thanks John

Matthew Darwin wrote on 2018-11-02 7:07 PM:


I think we should identify who would like to be involved in import for 
each municipality.  (on a wiki page). On the page, identify roles, 
like:


  * coordinator
  * import data preparation
  * QA
  * import execution
  * data enrichment (commercial, residential, etc... tagging)
  * etc..

Then we can see where we have gaps and how to fill them.  Perhaps some 
municipalities have local mappers who will be happy to do the tagging 
of building type (and can do some validation if the buildings look 
right), but no technical capability to execute the actual import.  And 
maybe some folks who did imports before will help areas where we have 
no technical expertise.



On 2018-11-02 6:58 p.m., John Whelan wrote:



So to paraphrase your reply.  A centralised import plan in the wiki 
which says the data is approved for import and should be tackled in 
chunks of some sort of region since we are a decentralized 
organization.  Which I think is similar to the way Task Manager 
works.  The project is broken into tiles and each tile is tackled 
completed separately. The 'Tiles' would of course be somewhat larger 
in area and there is a technical limitation as to how big an area can 
be downloaded from the OSM server.


The local mappers certainly have a role to play and because the goal 
is not only to import the buildings but to enrich the tags with 
commercial etc so the tag enrichment would be a task that a mapathon 
could tackle.  I personally don't think a new mapper using iD in a 
mapathon has a role to play in importing the building outlines into OSM.


The plan should include the technical steps to import the data.

Thanks

Cheerio John

Pierre Béland wrote on 2018-11-02 6:35 PM:

Pour le Québec, je retrouve les données de plusieurs municipalités
Montréal, Longueuil, Repentigny, Shawinigan, Québec et Rimouski.

Première observation rapide, aussi, elles sont de bonne qualité et 
proviennent je suppose des cadastres des municipalités. En milieu 
urbain, cela facilite beaucoup l'identification des immeubles 
juxtaposés.


Je vois ailleurs, aux États-Unis notamment avec les données de 
Microsoft, que les projets sont par région ou municipalité.


Je pense qu'il faut éviter un projet trop centralisé tant pour 
assurer un meilleur contrôle du déroulement dans chaque 
municipalité, région que pour permettre aux communautés des 
provinces et communautés locales de s'impliquer.


La rédaction d' une page wiki pour l'ensemble du Canada peut 
répondre aux exigences du groupe Import de OSM. Mais l'organisation 
doit être décentralisée.


Le rôle de cette liste doit être un forum pour supporter les 
communautés des provinces et communautés locales. C'est une occasion 
de dynamiser ces communautés avec un projet très intéressant. De là, 
ils auront le goût de compléter la carte pour y décrire les 
infrastructures locales.


Si trop de tâches sont initiées en parallèle sur un gestionnaire de 
tâches, il sera très difficile de coordonner, assurer le suivi, une 
progression coordonnée. Il faut éviter que des mapathons ou 
organisations externes s'invitent pour collaborer à de telles tâches 
avec les milliers et milliers de personnes qui viennent jardiner 
quelques heures sans organisation / formation réelle et laissent 
ensuite le tout sans dessus, dessous.


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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[Matthew Darwin]

Of course.

Could use the ottawa import approach:  "leave existing buildings alone".

Matthew Darwin
matt...@mdarwin.ca
http://www.mdarwin.ca

On 2018-11-02 7:03 p.m., OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:

On Nov 2, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Whelan  wrote:

So to paraphrase your reply.  A centralised import plan in the wiki which says 
the data is approved for import and should be tackled in chunks of some sort of 
region since we are a decentralized organization.  Which I think is similar to 
the way Task Manager works.  The project is broken into tiles and each tile is 
tackled completed separately. The 'Tiles' would of course be somewhat larger in 
area and there is a technical limitation as to how big an area can be 
downloaded from the OSM server.

The local mappers certainly have a role to play and because the goal is not 
only to import the buildings but to enrich the tags with commercial etc so the 
tag enrichment would be a task that a mapathon could tackle.  I personally 
don't think a new mapper using iD in a mapathon has a role to play in importing 
the building outlines into OSM.

The plan should include the technical steps to import the data.

AND, must include how existing data in OSM (as there appears to be "in some cases, 
significant" (I haven't examined the entire dataset, to do so would be overwhelming) which 
overlap with the "official datasets" will be conflated.  That is a critical step.

SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[Matthew Darwin]

I think we should identify who would like to be involved in import for 
each municipality.  (on a wiki page). On the page, identify roles, 
like:


 * coordinator
 * import data preparation
 * QA
 * import execution
 * data enrichment (commercial, residential, etc... tagging)
 * etc..

Then we can see where we have gaps and how to fill them.  Perhaps some 
municipalities have local mappers who will be happy to do the tagging 
of building type (and can do some validation if the buildings look 
right), but no technical capability to execute the actual import.  And 
maybe some folks who did imports before will help areas where we have 
no technical expertise.



On 2018-11-02 6:58 p.m., John Whelan wrote:



So to paraphrase your reply.  A centralised import plan in the wiki 
which says the data is approved for import and should be tackled in 
chunks of some sort of region since we are a decentralized 
organization.  Which I think is similar to the way Task Manager 
works.  The project is broken into tiles and each tile is tackled 
completed separately. The 'Tiles' would of course be somewhat larger 
in area and there is a technical limitation as to how big an area 
can be downloaded from the OSM server.


The local mappers certainly have a role to play and because the goal 
is not only to import the buildings but to enrich the tags with 
commercial etc so the tag enrichment would be a task that a mapathon 
could tackle.  I personally don't think a new mapper using iD in a 
mapathon has a role to play in importing the building outlines into OSM.


The plan should include the technical steps to import the data.

Thanks

Cheerio John

Pierre Béland wrote on 2018-11-02 6:35 PM:

Pour le Québec, je retrouve les données de plusieurs municipalités
Montréal, Longueuil, Repentigny, Shawinigan, Québec et Rimouski.

Première observation rapide, aussi, elles sont de bonne qualité et 
proviennent je suppose des cadastres des municipalités. En milieu 
urbain, cela facilite beaucoup l'identification des immeubles 
juxtaposés.


Je vois ailleurs, aux États-Unis notamment avec les données de 
Microsoft, que les projets sont par région ou municipalité.


Je pense qu'il faut éviter un projet trop centralisé tant pour 
assurer un meilleur contrôle du déroulement dans chaque 
municipalité, région que pour permettre aux communautés des 
provinces et communautés locales de s'impliquer.


La rédaction d' une page wiki pour l'ensemble du Canada peut 
répondre aux exigences du groupe Import de OSM. Mais l'organisation 
doit être décentralisée.


Le rôle de cette liste doit être un forum pour supporter les 
communautés des provinces et communautés locales. C'est une 
occasion de dynamiser ces communautés avec un projet très 
intéressant. De là, ils auront le goût de compléter la carte pour y 
décrire les infrastructures locales.


Si trop de tâches sont initiées en parallèle sur un gestionnaire de 
tâches, il sera très difficile de coordonner, assurer le suivi, une 
progression coordonnée. Il faut éviter que des mapathons ou 
organisations externes s'invitent pour collaborer à de telles 
tâches avec les milliers et milliers de personnes qui viennent 
jardiner quelques heures sans organisation / formation réelle et 
laissent ensuite le tout sans dessus, dessous.


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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

On Nov 2, 2018, at 3:58 PM, John Whelan  wrote:
> So to paraphrase your reply.  A centralised import plan in the wiki which 
> says the data is approved for import and should be tackled in chunks of some 
> sort of region since we are a decentralized organization.  Which I think is 
> similar to the way Task Manager works.  The project is broken into tiles and 
> each tile is tackled completed separately. The 'Tiles' would of course be 
> somewhat larger in area and there is a technical limitation as to how big an 
> area can be downloaded from the OSM server.
> 
> The local mappers certainly have a role to play and because the goal is not 
> only to import the buildings but to enrich the tags with commercial etc so 
> the tag enrichment would be a task that a mapathon could tackle.  I 
> personally don't think a new mapper using iD in a mapathon has a role to play 
> in importing the building outlines into OSM.
> 
> The plan should include the technical steps to import the data.

AND, must include how existing data in OSM (as there appears to be "in some 
cases, significant" (I haven't examined the entire dataset, to do so would be 
overwhelming) which overlap with the "official datasets" will be conflated.  
That is a critical step.

SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[John Whelan]

So to paraphrase your reply.  A centralised import plan in the wiki 
which says the data is approved for import and should be tackled in 
chunks of some sort of region since we are a decentralized 
organization.  Which I think is similar to the way Task Manager works.  
The project is broken into tiles and each tile is tackled completed 
separately. The 'Tiles' would of course be somewhat larger in area and 
there is a technical limitation as to how big an area can be downloaded 
from the OSM server.


The local mappers certainly have a role to play and because the goal is 
not only to import the buildings but to enrich the tags with commercial 
etc so the tag enrichment would be a task that a mapathon could tackle.  
I personally don't think a new mapper using iD in a mapathon has a role 
to play in importing the building outlines into OSM.


The plan should include the technical steps to import the data.

Thanks

Cheerio John

Pierre Béland wrote on 2018-11-02 6:35 PM:

Pour le Québec, je retrouve les données de plusieurs municipalités
Montréal, Longueuil, Repentigny, Shawinigan, Québec et Rimouski.

Première observation rapide, aussi, elles sont de bonne qualité et 
proviennent je suppose des cadastres des municipalités. En milieu 
urbain, cela facilite beaucoup l'identification des immeubles juxtaposés.


Je vois ailleurs, aux États-Unis notamment avec les données de 
Microsoft, que les projets sont par région ou municipalité.


Je pense qu'il faut éviter un projet trop centralisé tant pour assurer 
un meilleur contrôle du déroulement dans chaque municipalité, région 
que pour permettre aux communautés des provinces et communautés 
locales de s'impliquer.


La rédaction d' une page wiki pour l'ensemble du Canada peut répondre 
aux exigences du groupe Import de OSM. Mais l'organisation doit être 
décentralisée.


Le rôle de cette liste doit être un forum pour supporter les 
communautés des provinces et communautés locales. C'est une occasion 
de dynamiser ces communautés avec un projet très intéressant. De là, 
ils auront le goût de compléter la carte pour y décrire les 
infrastructures locales.


Si trop de tâches sont initiées en parallèle sur un gestionnaire de 
tâches, il sera très difficile de coordonner, assurer le suivi, une 
progression coordonnée. Il faut éviter que des mapathons ou 
organisations externes s'invitent pour collaborer à de telles tâches 
avec les milliers et milliers de personnes qui viennent jardiner 
quelques heures sans organisation / formation réelle et laissent 
ensuite le tout sans dessus, dessous.


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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

On Nov 2, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:
> La rédaction d' une page wiki pour l'ensemble du Canada peut répondre aux 
> exigences du groupe Import de OSM. Mais l'organisation doit être 
> décentralisée.

Je conviens qu'il est plus facile de rédiger un "plan d'importation" unique 
pour tout le Canada. Cela devient donc très difficile à déterminer pour les 
Canadiens. Toutefois, si de tels plans deviennent localisés, des plans 
d'importation réellement localisés sont réellement nécessaires. Bien sûr, il 
peut y avoir des chevauchements et des similitudes, mais des plans 
d'importation différents mènent nécessairement à une documentation unique et 
distincte.

Lorsque je télécharge de petits échantillons de données (par exemple, 
ODB_NorthwestTerritories qui n'inclut que Yellowknife), je constate qu'une 
grande partie ou la plupart des données des fichiers de formes de construction 
sont déjà téléchargées vers OSM, à quelques rares exceptions près ou lorsqu'un 
très faible pourcentage de les bâtiments existants ne diffèrent que d'un mètre 
ou deux. Tout plan d'importation doit tenir compte de la manière dont ces 
données seront regroupées.

Cordialement,
SteveA
Californie
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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[Pierre Béland]

Pour le Québec, je retrouve les données de plusieurs municipalitésMontréal, 
Longueuil, Repentigny, Shawinigan, Québec et Rimouski.
Première observation rapide, aussi, elles sont de bonne qualité et proviennent 
je suppose des cadastres des municipalités. En milieu urbain, cela facilite 
beaucoup l'identification des immeubles juxtaposés.
Je vois ailleurs, aux États-Unis notamment avec les données de Microsoft, que 
les projets sont par région ou municipalité. 

Je pense qu'il faut éviter un projet trop centralisé tant pour assurer un 
meilleur contrôle du déroulement dans chaque municipalité, région que pour 
permettre aux communautés des provinces et communautés locales de s'impliquer. 

La rédaction d' une page wiki pour l'ensemble du Canada peut répondre aux 
exigences du groupe Import de OSM. Mais l'organisation doit être décentralisée.
Le rôle de cette liste doit être un forum pour supporter les communautés des 
provinces et communautés locales. C'est une occasion de dynamiser ces 
communautés avec un projet très intéressant. De là, ils auront le goût de 
compléter la carte pour y décrire les infrastructures locales.  

Si trop de tâches sont initiées en parallèle sur un gestionnaire de tâches, il 
sera très difficile de coordonner, assurer le suivi, une progression 
coordonnée. Il faut éviter que des mapathons ou organisations externes 
s'invitent pour collaborer à de telles tâches avec les milliers et milliers de 
personnes qui viennent jardiner quelques heures sans organisation / formation 
réelle et laissent ensuite le tout sans dessus, dessous. 
Pierre 
 

Le vendredi 2 novembre 2018 16 h 07 min 40 s HAE, James 
 a écrit :  
 
 From my initial glance at the data...seems pretty good and accurate(again I 
didn't check all the cities nor do I expect them all to be having same level of 
accuracy)
The two I've been eye balling are Kingston and Rimouski which seem to be very 
accurate at first assessment. If we do want to import them, a formal draft up 
will have to be done though
On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 3:53 p.m. john whelan https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

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Re: [Talk-ca] Open Database of Buildings / Base de données ouvertes sur les immeubles

[Pierre Béland]

Merci Javi
Comme mon hébergeur est au Canada, cela serait surprenant.
 
Pierre 
 

Le vendredi 2 novembre 2018 17 h 15 min 56 s HAE, Javi Rodriguez 
 a écrit :  
 
 Hi Pierre, 

Maybe your internet provider has bad connections with Canadian/US carriers.

I mirrored all the data for you. Download it here:
https://www.illot.cat/ODB/

Salutations,
Javi

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Re: [Talk-ca] Open Database of Buildings / Base de données ouvertes sur les immeubles

[Javi Rodriguez]

Hi Pierre,

Maybe your internet provider has bad connections with Canadian/US carriers.

I mirrored all the data for you. Download it here:
https://www.illot.cat/ODB/

Salutations,
Javi___
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Re: [Talk-ca] Open Database of Buildings / Base de données ouvertes sur les immeubles

[Pierre Béland]

merci,
ip... téléchargement ok, moins de 2min pour chaque fichier.

 
Pierre 
 

Le vendredi 2 novembre 2018 16 h 39 min 55 s HAE, Javi Rodriguez 
 a écrit :  
 
 Hi Pierre,

I did not found any problem with the StatCan website.
I mirrored those files only to test your connection. Test it:

https://www.illot.cat/ODB/BDOI_Quebec.zip
https://www.illot.cat/ODB/ODB_Quebec.zip

Salutations,
Javi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
 On Friday, November 2, 2018 3:38 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:
 

Bonjour Alessandro

Je rencontre depuis hier des problèmes à télécharger les fichiers pour le 
Québec (fr ou en). Je ne suis sans doute pas le seul et les navigateurs ne nous 
offrent pas d'outils pour reprendre les transferts interrompus ou bien 
diagnostiquer les problèmes, sinon message Échec de transfert.  Le transfert 
est lent et interrompu après plusieurs minutes. Il est possible que votre 
serveur soit surchargé. Dans un tel contexte, il serait sans doute mieux de 
subdiviser les fichiers pour chaque ville ou zone à l'intérieur d'une province.

J'ai testé depuis hier avec les navigateurs Firefox et Chrome et rencontre des 
problèmes d'interruption de transfert avec chacun.  Je n'ai généralement pas de 
problème et ai une bonne connexion internet. 

liens url testés
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/sites/default/files/upload/media/BDOI_Quebec.zip
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/sites/default/files/upload/media/ODB_Quebec.zip 
Pierre 

Le jeudi 1 novembre 2018 14 h 07 min 17 s HAE, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN) 
 a écrit :


Released today!  / Diffusée aujourd’hui  
Share with your networks ! / Partagez avec vos réseaux !
 
 
***(EN)
Open Building Data: an exploratory initiative
This exploratory initiative aims at enhancing the use and harmonization of open 
building data from government sources for the purpose of contributing to the 
creationof a complete, comprehensive and open database of buildings in Canada. 
The outcome of this exploratory work is a first version of the Open Database of 
Buildings (ODB),a centralized and harmonized repository of building data made 
available under the Open Government License - Canada.
This initiative originates from insights taken from the StatisticsCanada pilot 
project on data crowdsourcing, which used OpenStreetMap as a platform for 
integrating data on building footprints. In addition to the possible benefits 
of crowdsourcing, that project highlighted the potential of integrating 
opendata from municipal, regional, and provincial governments to meet the needs 
of official statistics.
In its current version (version 1.0), the ODB contains approximately 4.3 
million building footprints.
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/open-building-data/index
Open Database of Buildings (ODB),
 
*** (FR)
Données ouvertes sur les immeubles : une initiative exploratoire
Cette initiative exploratoire vise à accroître l'utilisation et l'harmonisation 
des données ouvertes sur les immeubles provenant de sources gouvernementales en 
vue decontribuer à la mise en œuvre d'une base de données complète, exhaustive 
et ouverte sur les immeubles au Canada. Le travail exploratoire a mené à la 
création d'une première version de la Basede données ouverte sur les immeubles 
(BDOI), un référentiel centralisé et harmonisé des données sur les immeubles 
rendu public en vertu de la Licencedu gouvernement ouvert du Canada.
Cette initiative est fondée sur les leçons tirées du projetpilote de 
Statistique Canada sur l'approche participative en matière de données, qui 
avait employé OpenStreetMap comme plateforme d'intégration des données sur les 
empreintes d'immeubles. En plus des avantages potentiels de l'approche 
participative,ce projet a mis en lumière la possibilité d'intégrer les données 
ouvertes des administrations publiques municipales, régionales et provinciales 
afin de répondre aux besoins en matière de statistiques officielles.
Dans sa version actuelle (version 1.0), la BDOI contient environ 4,3 millions 
d'empreintes d'immeubles.
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/fra/donnees-ouvertes-immeubles/index
 
Base de données ouverte sur les immeubles (BDOI)
 
 
Alessandro Alasia 
 Chief | ChefData Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour 
l’exploration et l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
 alessandro.ala...@canada.ca / (613) 796-6049 
 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[John Whelan]

That sounds like a reasonable approach.

Thank you

Cheerio John

Begin Daniel wrote on 2018-11-02 4:19 PM:


I would agree to one import plan with an appropriate validation 
mechanism. I am concerned that the buildings they provide in rural 
areas come from Canvec. Over the years I have deleted/modified 
thousands of them (Canvec buildings) and I would not like to see all 
of them coming back.


Daniel

*From:*James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, November 2, 2018 16:07
*To:* john whelan
*Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
*Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data 
do we wish to import it?


From my initial glance at the data...seems pretty good and 
accurate(again I didn't check all the cities nor do I expect them all 
to be having same level of accuracy)


The two I've been eye balling are Kingston and Rimouski which seem to 
be very accurate at first assessment. If we do want to import them, a 
formal draft up will have to be done though


On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 3:53 p.m. john whelan  wrote:


This is just a formal post to get a feel.

In Ottawa the building outlines were of high quality and I feel
have enriched the map.

If we do should we consider it one project across the country or
leave it to the local chapters to make the decision?

I'm thinking that Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver certainly have
local groups of mappers.  There maybe others.

The other thing to consider is there are remote locations that may
not have a group of local mappers so taking a country wide stance
would not leave these locations in limbo.

Taking the decision across the country would mean only one import
plan and approval and after the Ottawa experience with
OpenStreetMap import red tape it might be easier than a dozen or
so different import plans.

I'm not thinking of the mechanics of the import yet.  That is a
different issue.

If you could reply saying you think its a good idea or shouldn't
be touched with a barge pole also if you could indicate country
wide or leave it to the local groups to make the decision I would
be grateful.

Thanks John

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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[John Whelan]

I know the City of Kingston are very interested in the project but they 
aren't the ones who can make the decision.


Cheerio John

James wrote on 2018-11-02 4:07 PM:
From my initial glance at the data...seems pretty good and 
accurate(again I didn't check all the cities nor do I expect them all 
to be having same level of accuracy)


The two I've been eye balling are Kingston and Rimouski which seem to 
be very accurate at first assessment. If we do want to import them, a 
formal draft up will have to be done though


On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 3:53 p.m. john whelan  wrote:


This is just a formal post to get a feel.

In Ottawa the building outlines were of high quality and I feel
have enriched the map.

If we do should we consider it one project across the country or
leave it to the local chapters to make the decision?

I'm thinking that Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver certainly have
local groups of mappers. There maybe others.

The other thing to consider is there are remote locations that may
not have a group of local mappers so taking a country wide stance
would not leave these locations in limbo.

Taking the decision across the country would mean only one import
plan and approval and after the Ottawa experience with
OpenStreetMap import red tape it might be easier than a dozen or
so different import plans.

I'm not thinking of the mechanics of the import yet.  That is a
different issue.

If you could reply saying you think its a good idea or shouldn't
be touched with a barge pole also if you could indicate country
wide or leave it to the local groups to make the decision I would
be grateful.

Thanks John
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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[James]

Begin, these datasets are from the cities themselves, not canvec. Stats can
is relicensing them under a common umbrella

On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 4:20 p.m. Begin Daniel  I would agree to one import plan with an appropriate validation mechanism.
> I am concerned that the buildings they provide in rural areas come from
> Canvec. Over the years I have deleted/modified thousands of them (Canvec
> buildings) and I would not like to see all of them coming back.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, November 2, 2018 16:07
> *To:* john whelan
> *Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do
> we wish to import it?
>
>
>
> From my initial glance at the data...seems pretty good and accurate(again
> I didn't check all the cities nor do I expect them all to be having same
> level of accuracy)
>
>
>
> The two I've been eye balling are Kingston and Rimouski which seem to be
> very accurate at first assessment. If we do want to import them, a formal
> draft up will have to be done though
>
>
>
> On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 3:53 p.m. john whelan 
> This is just a formal post to get a feel.
>
>
>
> In Ottawa the building outlines were of high quality and I feel have
> enriched the map.
>
>
>
> If we do should we consider it one project across the country or leave it
> to the local chapters to make the decision?
>
>
>
> I'm thinking that Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver certainly have local groups
> of mappers.  There maybe others.
>
>
>
> The other thing to consider is there are remote locations that may not
> have a group of local mappers so taking a country wide stance would not
> leave these locations in limbo.
>
>
>
> Taking the decision across the country would mean only one import plan and
> approval and after the Ottawa experience with OpenStreetMap import red tape
> it might be easier than a dozen or so different import plans.
>
>
>
> I'm not thinking of the mechanics of the import yet.  That is a different
> issue.
>
>
>
> If you could reply saying you think its a good idea or shouldn't be
> touched with a barge pole also if you could indicate country wide or leave
> it to the local groups to make the decision I would be grateful.
>
>
>
> Thanks John
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Open Database of Buildings / Base de données ouvertes sur les immeubles

[Javi Rodriguez]

Hi Pierre,

I did not found any problem with the StatCan website.
I mirrored those files only to test your connection. Test it:

https://www.illot.cat/ODB/BDOI_Quebec.zip
https://www.illot.cat/ODB/ODB_Quebec.zip

Salutations,
Javi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, November 2, 2018 3:38 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:

> Bonjour Alessandro
>
> Je rencontre depuis hier des problèmes à télécharger les fichiers pour le 
> Québec (fr ou en). Je ne suis sans doute pas le seul et les navigateurs ne 
> nous offrent pas d'outils pour reprendre les transferts interrompus ou bien 
> diagnostiquer les problèmes, sinon message Échec de transfert.  Le transfert 
> est lent et interrompu après plusieurs minutes. Il est possible que votre 
> serveur soit surchargé. Dans un tel contexte, il serait sans doute mieux de 
> subdiviser les fichiers pour chaque ville ou zone à l'intérieur d'une 
> province.
>
> J'ai testé depuis hier avec les navigateurs Firefox et Chrome et rencontre 
> des problèmes d'interruption de transfert avec chacun.  Je n'ai généralement 
> pas de problème et ai une bonne connexion internet.
>
> liens url testés
> https://www.statcan.gc.ca/sites/default/files/upload/media/BDOI_Quebec.ziphttps://www.statcan.gc.ca/sites/default/files/upload/media/ODB_Quebec.zip
>
> Pierre
>
> Le jeudi 1 novembre 2018 14 h 07 min 17 s HAE, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN) 
>  a écrit :
>
> Released today!  /Diffusée aujourd’hui
> Share with your networks ! / Partagez avec vos réseaux !
>
> ***(EN)
> Open Building Data: an exploratory initiative
> This exploratory initiative aims at enhancing the use and harmonization of 
> open building data from government sources for the purpose of contributing to 
> the creation of a complete, comprehensive and open database of buildings in 
> Canada. The outcome of this exploratory work is a first version of the [Open 
> Database of 
> Buildings](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/open-building-data/open-database) 
> (ODB), a centralized and harmonized repository of building data made 
> available under the [Open Government License - 
> Canada](https://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada).
> This initiative originates from insights taken from the [Statistics Canada 
> pilot 
> project](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/open-building-data/crowdsourcing-osm) 
> on data crowdsourcing, which used OpenStreetMap as a platform for integrating 
> data on building footprints. In addition to the possible benefits of 
> crowdsourcing, that project highlighted the potential of integrating open 
> data from municipal, regional, and provincial governments to meet the needs 
> of official statistics.
> In its current version (version 1.0), the ODB contains approximately 4.3 
> million building footprints.
> https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/open-building-data/index
> [Open Database of 
> Buildings](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/open-building-data/open-database) 
> (ODB),
>
> *** (FR)
> Données ouvertes sur les immeubles : une initiative exploratoire
> Cette initiative exploratoire vise à accroître l'utilisation et 
> l'harmonisation des données ouvertes sur les immeubles provenant de sources 
> gouvernementales en vue de contribuer à la mise en œuvre d'une base de 
> données complète, exhaustive et ouverte sur les immeubles au Canada. Le 
> travail exploratoire a mené à la création d'une première version de la [Base 
> de données ouverte sur les 
> immeubles](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/fra/donnees-ouvertes-immeubles/base-donnees-ouvertes)
>  (BDOI), un référentiel centralisé et harmonisé des données sur les immeubles 
> rendu public en vertu de la [Licence du gouvernement ouvert du 
> Canada](https://ouvert.canada.ca/fr/licence-du-gouvernement-ouvert-canada).
> Cette initiative est fondée sur les leçons tirées du [projet pilote de 
> Statistique 
> Canada](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/fra/donnees-ouvertes-immeubles/approche-participative-osm)
>  sur l'approche participative en matière de données, qui avait employé 
> OpenStreetMap comme plateforme d'intégration des données sur les empreintes 
> d'immeubles. En plus des avantages potentiels de l'approche participative, ce 
> projet a mis en lumière la possibilité d'intégrer les données ouvertes des 
> administrations publiques municipales, régionales et provinciales afin de 
> répondre aux besoins en matière de statistiques officielles.
> Dans sa version actuelle (version 1.0), la BDOI contient environ 4,3 millions 
> d'empreintes d'immeubles.
> https://www.statcan.gc.ca/fra/donnees-ouvertes-immeubles/index
>
> [Base de données ouverte sur les 
> immeubles](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/fra/donnees-ouvertes-immeubles/base-donnees-ouvertes)
>  (BDOI)
>
> Alessandro Alasia
> Chief | Chef
> Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
> l’intégration de données (LEID)
> Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
> entreprises
> Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
> alessandro.ala...@canada.ca / 

Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[Begin Daniel]

I would agree to one import plan with an appropriate validation mechanism. I am 
concerned that the buildings they provide in rural areas come from Canvec. Over 
the years I have deleted/modified thousands of them (Canvec buildings) and I 
would not like to see all of them coming back.

Daniel

From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 16:07
To: john whelan
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish 
to import it?

From my initial glance at the data...seems pretty good and accurate(again I 
didn't check all the cities nor do I expect them all to be having same level of 
accuracy)

The two I've been eye balling are Kingston and Rimouski which seem to be very 
accurate at first assessment. If we do want to import them, a formal draft up 
will have to be done though

On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 3:53 p.m. john whelan 
mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is just a formal post to get a feel.

In Ottawa the building outlines were of high quality and I feel have enriched 
the map.

If we do should we consider it one project across the country or leave it to 
the local chapters to make the decision?

I'm thinking that Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver certainly have local groups of 
mappers.  There maybe others.

The other thing to consider is there are remote locations that may not have a 
group of local mappers so taking a country wide stance would not leave these 
locations in limbo.

Taking the decision across the country would mean only one import plan and 
approval and after the Ottawa experience with OpenStreetMap import red tape it 
might be easier than a dozen or so different import plans.

I'm not thinking of the mechanics of the import yet.  That is a different issue.

If you could reply saying you think its a good idea or shouldn't be touched 
with a barge pole also if you could indicate country wide or leave it to the 
local groups to make the decision I would be grateful.

Thanks John
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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[James]

>From my initial glance at the data...seems pretty good and accurate(again I
didn't check all the cities nor do I expect them all to be having same
level of accuracy)

The two I've been eye balling are Kingston and Rimouski which seem to be
very accurate at first assessment. If we do want to import them, a formal
draft up will have to be done though

On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 3:53 p.m. john whelan  This is just a formal post to get a feel.
>
> In Ottawa the building outlines were of high quality and I feel have
> enriched the map.
>
> If we do should we consider it one project across the country or leave it
> to the local chapters to make the decision?
>
> I'm thinking that Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver certainly have local groups
> of mappers.  There maybe others.
>
> The other thing to consider is there are remote locations that may not
> have a group of local mappers so taking a country wide stance would not
> leave these locations in limbo.
>
> Taking the decision across the country would mean only one import plan and
> approval and after the Ottawa experience with OpenStreetMap import red tape
> it might be easier than a dozen or so different import plans.
>
> I'm not thinking of the mechanics of the import yet.  That is a different
> issue.
>
> If you could reply saying you think its a good idea or shouldn't be
> touched with a barge pole also if you could indicate country wide or leave
> it to the local groups to make the decision I would be grateful.
>
> Thanks John
> ___
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[Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

[john whelan]

This is just a formal post to get a feel.

In Ottawa the building outlines were of high quality and I feel have
enriched the map.

If we do should we consider it one project across the country or leave it
to the local chapters to make the decision?

I'm thinking that Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver certainly have local groups
of mappers.  There maybe others.

The other thing to consider is there are remote locations that may not have
a group of local mappers so taking a country wide stance would not leave
these locations in limbo.

Taking the decision across the country would mean only one import plan and
approval and after the Ottawa experience with OpenStreetMap import red tape
it might be easier than a dozen or so different import plans.

I'm not thinking of the mechanics of the import yet.  That is a different
issue.

If you could reply saying you think its a good idea or shouldn't be touched
with a barge pole also if you could indicate country wide or leave it to
the local groups to make the decision I would be grateful.

Thanks John
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Re: [Talk-ca] Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in Crowdsourcing Platforms

[john whelan]

Your points are well taken but in this case when the building outlines are
imported by someone like James and are of high quality to start with as
they were in Ottawa then these concerns are less relevant.

At the moment Stats Canada have released some building outline data under
the Federal Government's Open Data license.

So far I haven't seen anyone say they are interested in importing it.
Generally speaking local mappers are involved in the import or not to
import decision making process.  This is country wide so who would make the
call?

Locally in Ottawa we have already imported the building outlines so Ottawa
isn't really part of this.

Bjenk is no longer available, his advantage was he has worked with the
local Ottawa mappers.

I'm not seeing any groups of local mappers saying yes we would like this
data. Montreal in the past have said they are interested but don't have the
resources to do the import nor to add tags to the buildings afterwards.

Julia was involved in the web page for 2020 but coordinating something of
this size would need more than Julia and I'm not sure if she is active in
OSM at the moment.

My concern is if the data is available either at the moment or in the near
future through Treasury Board's Open Data portal then mappers who have been
importing bits of CANVEC data through the portal will treat this as being
the same and we will get lots of very small imports of perhaps half a dozen
buildings scattered across the country.

A more systematic import would be less work over all and insure cleaner
coverage.

Cheerio John





On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 at 14:58, Pierre Béland  wrote:

> Bonjour John
>
> Tu as vu avec moi lors de coordination de Réponses humanitaires majeures
> telles Ebola en 2014 et le Népal en 2015 l'arrivée de plus en plus de
> mapathons notamment organisés par MissingMaps.  Les flux constants de
> nouveaux arrivés qui viennent pour quelques heures s'initier à OSM,
> ajoutent beaucoup de problèmes difficiles ensuite à gérer. Et on l'a aussi
> vu oui avec le projet B2020.  Ceux qui proposent de démarrer de nouveaux
> projets d'import doivent doivent être prêt à consacrer beaucoup de temps  à
> la coordination et accepter toutes les frustrations et difficultés.
> Difficile de contrôler tous les groupes scolaires ou autres qui veulent
> participer mais de façon non suffisamment planifiée et structurée.  Bien
> intéressant pour une classe de s'initier à OSM. Mais comment assurer que
> OSM bénificiera de cette expérience?
>
> Pour un bon tableau de suivi, il ne faut pas uniquement des nombres
> d'objets ajoutés. Il faut aussi des indicateurs de qualité tel que
> l'indicateur sur les géométries irrégulières que j'ai développé récemment.
> On y voit les projets où un nombre anormal de bâtiments sont tracés avec
> des formes irrégulières. Mes analyses montrent que les statistiques pour
> une ville ne devrait montrer en général que des ratios en 5 et 10%
> d'immeubles avec des formes irrégulières.  Pour un projet en Ouganda, j'ai
> observé un ratio de près de 60%. Évidemment, lorsque l'on analyse de plus
> près, beaucoup d'erreurs qui risquent de ne jamais être corrigées.
>
> voir
> fr  https://opendatalabrdc.github.io/Blog/#!index_fr.md
> en https://opendatalabrdc.github.io/Blog/#!index_en.md
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Pierre
>
>
> Le vendredi 2 novembre 2018 12 h 31 min 59 s HAE, John Whelan <
> jwhelan0...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>
> My feeling is OpenStreetMap has two sides.  The first is local adding
> local knowledge to the map.  The other I'll call armchair mapping.  When
> Stats Canada did the pilot it tapped the local Ottawa mappers who meet
> physically.
>
> I would agree that amongst mappers with the most edits there is a high
> number of retired people and those with disabilities involved and these may
> not be visible.  Tapping them for groups coming together to map can be a
> problem.
>
> In my view typically the most productive mappers are those with a special
> interest.  Adding WiFi access or churches for example or even a change of
> street name.
>
> We also have a number of teachers who would like to use OSM and in
> particular the building project to involve their students.  We get a fair
> amount of data added but the quality can be questionable.  HOT and others I
> think have found that using a restricted set of tasks and tags works best.
>
> My personal feeling is giving feedback is useful.  So the challenge for
> the building project is how to engage people.  What are the most useful
> tags to add?
>
> I'd suggest some sort of web site giving the number of buildings mapped
> and the tags that have been added by city.  Graphs with time as one axis
> would be nice.
>
> Certainly certain activities are more complex than others.  Importing
> buildings is not a task I'd suggest for teenage mapper with twenty minutes
> experience.  Breaking out the tasks is a task in itself and for 4 million
> buildings I think it could benefit from a project plan.
>
> I think we've 

Re: [Talk-ca] Open Database of Buildings / Base de données ouvertes sur les immeubles

[Pierre Béland]

Bonjour Alessandro
Je rencontre depuis hier des problèmes à télécharger les fichiers pour le 
Québec (fr ou en). Je ne suis sans doute pas le seul et les navigateurs ne nous 
offrent pas d'outils pour reprendre les transferts interrompus ou bien 
diagnostiquer les problèmes, sinon message Échec de transfert.  Le transfert 
est lent et interrompu après plusieurs minutes. Il est possible que votre 
serveur soit surchargé. Dans un tel contexte, il serait sans doute mieux de 
subdiviser les fichiers pour chaque ville ou zone à l'intérieur d'une province.
J'ai testé depuis hier avec les navigateurs Firefox et Chrome et rencontre des 
problèmes d'interruption de transfert avec chacun.  Je n'ai généralement pas de 
problème et ai une bonne connexion internet. 

liens url testés
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/sites/default/files/upload/media/BDOI_Quebec.zip
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/sites/default/files/upload/media/ODB_Quebec.zip 
Pierre 
 

Le jeudi 1 novembre 2018 14 h 07 min 17 s HAE, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN) 
 a écrit :  
 
  Released today!  / Diffusée aujourd’hui   Share with your networks ! / 
Partagez avec vos réseaux !  ***(EN)Open Building Data: an exploratory 
initiativeThis exploratory initiative aims at enhancing the use and 
harmonization of open building data from government sources for the purpose of 
contributing to the creationof a complete, comprehensive and open database of 
buildings in Canada. The outcome of this exploratory work is a first version of 
the Open Database of Buildings (ODB),a centralized and harmonized repository of 
building data made available under the Open Government License - Canada.This 
initiative originates from insights taken from the StatisticsCanada pilot 
project on data crowdsourcing, which used OpenStreetMap as a platform for 
integrating data on building footprints. In addition to the possible benefits 
of crowdsourcing, that project highlighted the potential of integrating 
opendata from municipal, regional, and provincial governments to meet the needs 
of official statistics.In its current version (version 1.0), the ODB contains 
approximately 4.3 million building footprints. 
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/open-building-data/indexOpen Database of 
Buildings (ODB), *** (FR)Données ouvertes sur les immeubles : une initiative 
exploratoireCette initiative exploratoire vise à accroître l'utilisation et 
l'harmonisation des données ouvertes sur les immeubles provenant de sources 
gouvernementales en vue decontribuer à la mise en œuvre d'une base de données 
complète, exhaustive et ouverte sur les immeubles au Canada. Le travail 
exploratoire a mené à la création d'une première version de la Basede données 
ouverte sur les immeubles (BDOI), un référentiel centralisé et harmonisé des 
données sur les immeubles rendu public en vertu de la Licencedu gouvernement 
ouvert du Canada.Cette initiative est fondée sur les leçons tirées du 
projetpilote de Statistique Canada sur l'approche participative en matière de 
données, qui avait employé OpenStreetMap comme plateforme d'intégration des 
données sur les empreintes d'immeubles. En plus des avantages potentiels de 
l'approche participative,ce projet a mis en lumière la possibilité d'intégrer 
les données ouvertes des administrations publiques municipales, régionales et 
provinciales afin de répondre aux besoins en matière de statistiques 
officielles.Dans sa version actuelle (version 1.0), la BDOI contient environ 
4,3 millions d'empreintes 
d'immeubles.https://www.statcan.gc.ca/fra/donnees-ouvertes-immeubles/index Base 
de données ouverte sur les immeubles (BDOI)  Alessandro Alasia 
Chief | ChefData Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour 
l’exploration et l’intégration de données (LEID)Center for Special Business 
Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les entreprisesStatistics Canada | 
Statistique Canada
alessandro.ala...@canada.ca / (613) 796-6049  
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Re: [Talk-ca] Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in Crowdsourcing Platforms

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

On Nov 2, 2018, at 9:31 AM, John Whelan  wrote:
> My feeling is OpenStreetMap has two sides.  The first is local adding local 
> knowledge to the map.  The other I'll call armchair mapping.  When Stats 
> Canada did the pilot it tapped the local Ottawa mappers who meet physically.

Speaking from nearly a decade of experience, OSM has many, many sides, though 
the two that John Whelan identifies are two many find "readily apparent."  I 
quick-read the study, which was actually quite informative in that it broke up 
similar crowdsourcing efforts (OSM is only lightly mentioned) into demographic 
categories, with some surprising results.  One is that many volunteers are 
older, sometimes disabled (stroke victims noting benefits of "repetitious tasks 
which help my brain to heal" was cited) and have a particular need for the 
sorts of social feedback which projects like this uniquely offer.  (At the same 
time, there is often a sharp dichotomy between these sorts of crowdsourced 
projects and social media, with many in the study who prefer the former 
appearing loathe to use the latter).

Another very important take-away is how participants in projects like these 
truly improve their skill-sets (seriously improving quality of submitted data) 
over time:  like many things, the longer one participates, the better become 
their skills.  This emphasizes the importance of "growing experts," something 
seldom mentioned in OSM.

> I would agree that amongst mappers with the most edits there is a high number 
> of retired people and those with disabilities involved and these may not be 
> visible.  Tapping them for groups coming together to map can be a problem.

It might appear that way (that they are invisible), yet there is no denying 
that "they find you."  In short, "build a project that attracts older, likely 
high-skill (or can grow there) participants, and they will come."

> In my view typically the most productive mappers are those with a special 
> interest.  Adding WiFi access or churches for example or even a change of 
> street name.

While it is difficult to say why mappers become productive, it may be even 
harder to do the apparently more simple task of defining "productive."  I know 
one mapper who flits about the entire planet in OSM, seeking to "up his stats 
on a leaderboard" as he measures the number of edits he makes in the tens or 
hundreds of thousands.  Needless to say, the quality of his edits, and how 
productive he is, is a matter of contention.  There is such a thing as "high 
quality" and in OSM this can and should be defined and refined especially for 
major projects.

Certainly "quality of data entered" is one metric, yet even that can be hard to 
define or measure, unless strict criteria are established at the beginning of a 
project as a goal to strive.  Once again, and especially in highly ambitious 
projects (like BC2020) this underscores the need for some up-front planning, 
up-front project management, up-front expectations of data quality and up-front 
documentation of all of these things so that these expectations are met and 
measured along the way.  (Project Management 101, really).

> We also have a number of teachers who would like to use OSM and in particular 
> the building project to involve their students.  We get a fair amount of data 
> added but the quality can be questionable.  HOT and others I think have found 
> that using a restricted set of tasks and tags works best.

I personally have experienced helping professors at the university level 
(computer science, environmental studies...) use OSM, as students at the 
undergraduate level readily take to OSM.  Younger students (high school, middle 
school) enjoy some success with it, more often at smaller, less ambitious 
tasks, a recently popular one in the USA being "micro-mapping our local school 
campus."  (Drinking fountains/water stations, extremely detailed sporting 
facilities, footways and associated potential routing, landscaping, 
restricted/off-limits areas, parking areas for autos, motorcycles, bicycles, 
etc.)  What often works is breaking students into functional groups (sports 
facilities, transportation, amenities...) and having a teacher/administrator 
check the results of each group.  The tags can start out restricted and stay 
that way, or they can start out restricted and allow the students to develop 
further "depth" by researching OSM's wiki pages, or even (yes, this is 
advanced) structure their own scheme.  For example, a high school has four 
different libraries in several different buildings, or extensive sports 
facilities, how might we best tag these?

And whether young, old or in-between, Martijn van Exel (an OSM superstar) has 
proven with his (well, largely his) MapRoulette project that "gamification" can 
really super-charge particular kinds of data entry/improvement sub-projects 
like few other strategies can.  The Study confirms this, saying "Platform 
features such as gamification, 

Re: [Talk-ca] Enablers and Barriers for Voluntary Participation in Crowdsourcing Platforms

[John Whelan]

My feeling is OpenStreetMap has two sides. The first is local adding 
local knowledge to the map.  The other I'll call armchair mapping.  When 
Stats Canada did the pilot it tapped the local Ottawa mappers who meet 
physically.


I would agree that amongst mappers with the most edits there is a high 
number of retired people and those with disabilities involved and these 
may not be visible.  Tapping them for groups coming together to map can 
be a problem.


In my view typically the most productive mappers are those with a 
special interest.  Adding WiFi access or churches for example or even a 
change of street name.


We also have a number of teachers who would like to use OSM and in 
particular the building project to involve their students.  We get a 
fair amount of data added but the quality can be questionable.  HOT and 
others I think have found that using a restricted set of tasks and tags 
works best.


My personal feeling is giving feedback is useful.  So the challenge for 
the building project is how to engage people.  What are the most useful 
tags to add?


I'd suggest some sort of web site giving the number of buildings mapped 
and the tags that have been added by city.  Graphs with time as one axis 
would be nice.


Certainly certain activities are more complex than others.  Importing 
buildings is not a task I'd suggest for teenage mapper with twenty 
minutes experience.  Breaking out the tasks is a task in itself and for 
4 million buildings I think it could benefit from a project plan.


I think we've seen with the 2020 project that just saying it would be 
nice to have by is not really enough to sustain it but who would do it 
I'm not sure.


Cheerio John


Jonathan Brown wrote on 2018-11-02 11:28 AM:


Apropos the ongoing efforts to educate new volunteers, the discussion 
section of this research paper on enablers and barriers may be useful 
https://ac.els-cdn.com/S0747563216305295/1-s2.0-S0747563216305295-main.pdf?_tid=31ea73b8-7cb4-4eca-acc4-062aa79c278b=1541171937_ecb61791a7d798a1491503b71f69b0ab 



Jonathan



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