Re: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[John Whelan]

Are you confusing the availability of Open Data with an import?  Most 
imports need plans but just because Open Data is available does not mean 
the license is compatible nor that it will be imported.


My feeling is the wiki page lists open data and indicates if the license 
is compatible.


We do not need a plan for every potential source only those that someone 
is planing to import.


Cheerio John

OSM Volunteer stevea wrote on 2018-11-01 4:00 PM:

On Nov 1, 2018, at 12:47 PM, Дмитрий Киселев  wrote:

Looks like the wiki needs amending to only list open data with the correct 
license either separately or a note added to each entry.

Mmmm, not "only," an Import Plan is required, too.  That can be part of a wiki 
that describes the project in general or stands on its own as a separate wiki.  But it is 
required.

SteveA
California


--
Sent from Postbox 

___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

Re: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[John Whelan]

The Canadian Federal Government Open Data License is one of the few that 
has been formally approved by the legal working group.  I would have 
preferred to see it released through the Treasury Board's Open Data 
portal that way there is no question about the license but I accept 
Alessandro's statement it is released under that license.


In the same way that we do not import everything that CANVEC offers 
through the Treasury Board Open Data portal I think we need to examine 
and treat this data in the same way.  James has already made a comment 
on part of it.


There is a history of importing data from the TB Open Portal in small 
quantities on an Ad Hoc basis which makes drawing a line to say none of 
this data should be used unless there is an import plan that has been 
approved etc.


The pilot was different. There we did a formal import plan for Ottawa 
and the decision was taken by local Ottawa mappers to proceed and they 
did the import.


Importing everything that Stats Canada could find across Canada is a 
little different.  Who are the local mappers who make the decision to go 
ahead or not?  Remember that parts of Canada are closer to Europe than 
the west coast.


Should it be done using a grid?

Who should do it?  and that is an interesting question given that mapper 
resources are not unlimited and doing an import is more complex than 
running a maperthon with new mappers.


Cheerio John

Дмитрий Киселев wrote on 2018-11-01 3:47 PM:

Hi John,

Looks like the wiki needs amending to only list open data with the
correct license either separately or a note added to each entry.


what's the status of OGL-CA is it compatible or not,
or compatible with some restrictions or only for some datasets?

StatsCan just published building footprints dataset under OGL-CA it's 
of course quite controversial
do we want to import some parts of that dataset or not, but looks like 
there is no concerns about

license compatibility (at least on mailing list),
Is that true or not, or we don't have legal answer which we can rely on?

вс, 21 окт. 2018 г. в 11:52, John Whelan >:


Looks like the wiki needs amending to only list open data with the
correct license either separately or a note added to each entry. 
I have noticed before there is no authority listed on the wiki.

Cheerio John

Дмитрий Киселев wrote on 2018-10-21 10:28 AM:

About source, I suppose it's

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada#Open_Data [12]

вс, 21 окт. 2018 г. в 10:20, Frederik Ramm mailto:frede...@remote.org>>:

Hi,

there's a mapper in Canada - Darthmouthmapper - who seems to:

1. import data from a source he calls "Nova Scotia Open Data"
- I am not
aware of any imports discussion, and the source specification
is not
precise enough to determine the legal status of that. Judging
from past
changeset comments, whatever imports procedure is used must
have a
number of flaws.

2. import administrative boundaries

2a. as a mesh of closed ways (where most people would prefer
relations),

2b. with, among other things, the tags "_Shape_Area_=yes",
"addrcountry=Canada" (no colon!), "addr:postcode" (which is not
generally used for objects that do not represent an address), and
"type=land_area" (which is not generally used on closed ways).

2c. The combination of a level-8 admin boundary and
place=village is
also unusual (eg https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/616463020)
but I
cannot judge if this is normal in Canada. This is also used in
residential areas https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/636390857
- is this
area really a "village"?

3. use a ton of is_in tags which are highly unusual nowadays

4. occasionally change existing relations (not ways) from
type=boundary
to type=land_area
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8417484/history)

5. add addr:postcode and addr:province to place=village nodes

6. revert corrections applied to this by other users,
claiming that "The
video and instructions state these can be part of the ways"

A number of people have complained in the past

http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=698649
but many of the issues seem to be present still.

Before I ask him to fix this -- are any of the behaviours /
mapping
techniques outlined above somehow usual in Canada?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org

  ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org 

Re: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

On Nov 1, 2018, at 12:47 PM, Дмитрий Киселев  wrote:
> Looks like the wiki needs amending to only list open data with the correct 
> license either separately or a note added to each entry.

Mmmm, not "only," an Import Plan is required, too.  That can be part of a wiki 
that describes the project in general or stands on its own as a separate wiki.  
But it is required.

SteveA
California
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

Re: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[Дмитрий Киселев]

Hi John,

Looks like the wiki needs amending to only list open data with the correct
> license either separately or a note added to each entry.


what's the status of OGL-CA is it compatible or not,
or compatible with some restrictions or only for some datasets?

StatsCan just published building footprints dataset under OGL-CA it's of
course quite controversial
do we want to import some parts of that dataset or not, but looks like
there is no concerns about
license compatibility (at least on mailing list),
Is that true or not, or we don't have legal answer which we can rely on?

вс, 21 окт. 2018 г. в 11:52, John Whelan :

> Looks like the wiki needs amending to only list open data with the correct
> license either separately or a note added to each entry.  I have noticed
> before there is no authority listed on the wiki.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> Дмитрий Киселев wrote on 2018-10-21 10:28 AM:
>
> About source, I suppose it's
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada#Open_Data [12]
>
> вс, 21 окт. 2018 г. в 10:20, Frederik Ramm :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> there's a mapper in Canada - Darthmouthmapper - who seems to:
>>
>> 1. import data from a source he calls "Nova Scotia Open Data" - I am not
>> aware of any imports discussion, and the source specification is not
>> precise enough to determine the legal status of that. Judging from past
>> changeset comments, whatever imports procedure is used must have a
>> number of flaws.
>>
>> 2. import administrative boundaries
>>
>> 2a. as a mesh of closed ways (where most people would prefer relations),
>>
>> 2b. with, among other things, the tags "_Shape_Area_=yes",
>> "addrcountry=Canada" (no colon!), "addr:postcode" (which is not
>> generally used for objects that do not represent an address), and
>> "type=land_area" (which is not generally used on closed ways).
>>
>> 2c. The combination of a level-8 admin boundary and place=village is
>> also unusual (eg https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/616463020) but I
>> cannot judge if this is normal in Canada. This is also used in
>> residential areas https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/636390857 - is this
>> area really a "village"?
>>
>> 3. use a ton of is_in tags which are highly unusual nowadays
>>
>> 4. occasionally change existing relations (not ways) from type=boundary
>> to type=land_area (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8417484/history
>> )
>>
>> 5. add addr:postcode and addr:province to place=village nodes
>>
>> 6. revert corrections applied to this by other users, claiming that "The
>> video and instructions state these can be part of the ways"
>>
>> A number of people have complained in the past
>>
>> http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=698649
>> but many of the issues seem to be present still.
>>
>> Before I ask him to fix this -- are any of the behaviours / mapping
>> techniques outlined above somehow usual in Canada?
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-ca mailing list
>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Dmitry
>
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing 
> listTalk-ca@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
> --
> Sent from Postbox
> 
>


-- 
Best regards,
Dmitry
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

Re: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 10/30/18 19:15, wambac...@posteo.de wrote:
> last week there was a (short) discussion at talk-ca about
> https://osm.org/user/Darthmouthmapper

Now known as "Darthmouthmapmaker", though not currently making any maps
because of

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2312

I hope he will explain himself here. I will also consider reverting some
of the most unusual contributions in so far as I can determine them
algorithmically.

Bye
Frederik


-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

[Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[wambacher]

Hi,

last week there was a (short) discussion at talk-ca about
https://osm.org/user/Darthmouthmapper

see
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2018-October/008794.html

Unfortunately nothing happened until now. The user (or users?) is still
going on doing very strange stuff including severe errors.

Is DWG working on that? or do you need more details about "his" stuff?

Regards

walter

-- 
My projects:

Admin Boundaries of the World 
Missing Boundaries

Emergency Map 
Postal Code Map (Germany only) 
Fools (QA for zipcodes in Germany) 
Postcode Boundaries of Germany 
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

Re: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[Andrew Lester]

Hi Frederik, 

What this mapper is doing is not usual or desired. As you've seen by the 
changeset discussions and edit wars, the general OSM community does not agree 
with the way they're doing things. I sent them a message a few days ago 
pointing out a number of the issues you listed and suggesting that they take a 
break from adding new data to go back and fix these issues, but I see that 
they've continued to import with the same issues, and they haven't replied to 
my message. Based on what I've seen and read, I suspect: 
1. They only have a basic understanding of OSM, and certainly not enough 
knowledge or experience to be making the type of mass-edits they are. 
2. They may be mapping for the specific purpose of Garmin GPS map use, and as a 
result are misusing tags to fit that usage rather than changing their Garmin 
map generation process. 
3. They may not even be living in Nova Scotia (some of what I've read implies 
that they're mapping remotely and English may not be their primary language). 

At this point, I think it might be a good idea to have the DWG step in. Clearly 
this mapper isn't going to stop what they're doing based solely on 
communication from other mappers. It's already going to take a while to clean 
up the mess they've made, so we need to stop the creation of even more mess. 

Andrew Lester 
Victoria, BC, Canada 


From: "Frederik Ramm"  
To: "talk-ca"  
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 6:18:24 AM 
Subject: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area 

Hi, 

there's a mapper in Canada - Darthmouthmapper - who seems to: 

1. import data from a source he calls "Nova Scotia Open Data" - I am not 
aware of any imports discussion, and the source specification is not 
precise enough to determine the legal status of that. Judging from past 
changeset comments, whatever imports procedure is used must have a 
number of flaws. 

2. import administrative boundaries 

2a. as a mesh of closed ways (where most people would prefer relations), 

2b. with, among other things, the tags "_Shape_Area_=yes", 
"addrcountry=Canada" (no colon!), "addr:postcode" (which is not 
generally used for objects that do not represent an address), and 
"type=land_area" (which is not generally used on closed ways). 

2c. The combination of a level-8 admin boundary and place=village is 
also unusual (eg https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/616463020) but I 
cannot judge if this is normal in Canada. This is also used in 
residential areas https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/636390857 - is this 
area really a "village"? 

3. use a ton of is_in tags which are highly unusual nowadays 

4. occasionally change existing relations (not ways) from type=boundary 
to type=land_area (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8417484/history) 

5. add addr:postcode and addr:province to place=village nodes 

6. revert corrections applied to this by other users, claiming that "The 
video and instructions state these can be part of the ways" 

A number of people have complained in the past 
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=698649 
but many of the issues seem to be present still. 

Before I ask him to fix this -- are any of the behaviours / mapping 
techniques outlined above somehow usual in Canada? 

Bye 
Frederik 

-- 
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" 

___ 
Talk-ca mailing list 
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca 
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

Re: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[John Whelan]

Looks like the wiki needs amending to only list open data with the 
correct license either separately or a note added to each entry.  I have 
noticed before there is no authority listed on the wiki.


Cheerio John

Дмитрий Киселев wrote on 2018-10-21 10:28 AM:

About source, I suppose it's

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada#Open_Data [12]

вс, 21 окт. 2018 г. в 10:20, Frederik Ramm >:


Hi,

there's a mapper in Canada - Darthmouthmapper - who seems to:

1. import data from a source he calls "Nova Scotia Open Data" - I
am not
aware of any imports discussion, and the source specification is not
precise enough to determine the legal status of that. Judging from
past
changeset comments, whatever imports procedure is used must have a
number of flaws.

2. import administrative boundaries

2a. as a mesh of closed ways (where most people would prefer
relations),

2b. with, among other things, the tags "_Shape_Area_=yes",
"addrcountry=Canada" (no colon!), "addr:postcode" (which is not
generally used for objects that do not represent an address), and
"type=land_area" (which is not generally used on closed ways).

2c. The combination of a level-8 admin boundary and place=village is
also unusual (eg https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/616463020) but I
cannot judge if this is normal in Canada. This is also used in
residential areas https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/636390857 - is
this
area really a "village"?

3. use a ton of is_in tags which are highly unusual nowadays

4. occasionally change existing relations (not ways) from
type=boundary
to type=land_area
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8417484/history)

5. add addr:postcode and addr:province to place=village nodes

6. revert corrections applied to this by other users, claiming
that "The
video and instructions state these can be part of the ways"

A number of people have complained in the past
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=698649
but many of the issues seem to be present still.

Before I ask him to fix this -- are any of the behaviours / mapping
techniques outlined above somehow usual in Canada?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org

  ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca



--
Best regards,
Dmitry
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


--
Sent from Postbox 

___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

Re: [Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[Дмитрий Киселев]

About source, I suppose it's

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada#Open_Data [12]

вс, 21 окт. 2018 г. в 10:20, Frederik Ramm :

> Hi,
>
> there's a mapper in Canada - Darthmouthmapper - who seems to:
>
> 1. import data from a source he calls "Nova Scotia Open Data" - I am not
> aware of any imports discussion, and the source specification is not
> precise enough to determine the legal status of that. Judging from past
> changeset comments, whatever imports procedure is used must have a
> number of flaws.
>
> 2. import administrative boundaries
>
> 2a. as a mesh of closed ways (where most people would prefer relations),
>
> 2b. with, among other things, the tags "_Shape_Area_=yes",
> "addrcountry=Canada" (no colon!), "addr:postcode" (which is not
> generally used for objects that do not represent an address), and
> "type=land_area" (which is not generally used on closed ways).
>
> 2c. The combination of a level-8 admin boundary and place=village is
> also unusual (eg https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/616463020) but I
> cannot judge if this is normal in Canada. This is also used in
> residential areas https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/636390857 - is this
> area really a "village"?
>
> 3. use a ton of is_in tags which are highly unusual nowadays
>
> 4. occasionally change existing relations (not ways) from type=boundary
> to type=land_area (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8417484/history)
>
> 5. add addr:postcode and addr:province to place=village nodes
>
> 6. revert corrections applied to this by other users, claiming that "The
> video and instructions state these can be part of the ways"
>
> A number of people have complained in the past
> http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=698649
> but many of the issues seem to be present still.
>
> Before I ask him to fix this -- are any of the behaviours / mapping
> techniques outlined above somehow usual in Canada?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>


-- 
Best regards,
Dmitry
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

[Talk-ca] Nova Scotia imports, and boundary=land_area

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

there's a mapper in Canada - Darthmouthmapper - who seems to:

1. import data from a source he calls "Nova Scotia Open Data" - I am not
aware of any imports discussion, and the source specification is not
precise enough to determine the legal status of that. Judging from past
changeset comments, whatever imports procedure is used must have a
number of flaws.

2. import administrative boundaries

2a. as a mesh of closed ways (where most people would prefer relations),

2b. with, among other things, the tags "_Shape_Area_=yes",
"addrcountry=Canada" (no colon!), "addr:postcode" (which is not
generally used for objects that do not represent an address), and
"type=land_area" (which is not generally used on closed ways).

2c. The combination of a level-8 admin boundary and place=village is
also unusual (eg https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/616463020) but I
cannot judge if this is normal in Canada. This is also used in
residential areas https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/636390857 - is this
area really a "village"?

3. use a ton of is_in tags which are highly unusual nowadays

4. occasionally change existing relations (not ways) from type=boundary
to type=land_area (https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8417484/history)

5. add addr:postcode and addr:province to place=village nodes

6. revert corrections applied to this by other users, claiming that "The
video and instructions state these can be part of the ways"

A number of people have complained in the past
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=698649
but many of the issues seem to be present still.

Before I ask him to fix this -- are any of the behaviours / mapping
techniques outlined above somehow usual in Canada?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca