Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN wiki page

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/11/2020 22:34, Jez Nicholson wrote:
From my change request discussion it appears that the UPRN appeared on 
the road as part of a test of Robert's Mathmos matching.


The USRN and the UPRN tags showed the same number, I believe. The UPRN 
tag has now been removed leaving only the USRN, but the number concerned 
is not the USRN for that road.


Isn't there a sandbox for people to test things out without hitting the 
live database?


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Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?

[Steve Doerr]

On 31/10/2020 08:04, Martin Wynne wrote:


The NLS historic 25" georeferenced map first looks on the server for 
tiles from the County Series maps.


If that returns a 404 Not Found error (presumably because the sheet 
wasn't available when the rest were scanned), it then looks on the 
server for the same tile from the "Holes England" map to fill in the gap.





Yes. I look at these quite a lot. There is more than one holes layer, I 
believe: the ones I have on my list are england_holes, holes_england, 
and holes2.


You can configure OSMAnd to show three of these layers at once (usually 
county plus two of the holes layers), which is quite useful.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Street-name toids

[Steve Doerr]

On 13/08/2020 13:06, SK53 wrote:
This location 
 on Robert's 
site shows several UPRNs on streets:


  * 10009154384 on Averton Square



That's a link to openstreetmap.org, not to something called 'Robert's site'.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Admin Boundaries and Combined Authorities

[Steve Doerr]

Could they perhaps be 5.5 to distinguish them from regions?

Steve





From: Brian Prangle [mailto:bpran...@gmail.com]





I favour admin  level 5 too.



On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 at 23:52, Colin Smale mailto:colin.sm...@xs4all.nl> > wrote:

The LAs of which the CAs are composed are sometimes Metropolitan Boroughs with 
admin_level=8, and sometimes Unitary Authorities with admin_level=6. I am 
tending towards admin_level=5; this value is/was in use for the Regions, but 
they no longer have an admin function (if they ever had one) so I consider 
admin level 5 as "available" for use by Combined Authorities.



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Re: [Talk-GB] The curious case of USRN 20602512

[Steve Doerr]

On 10/07/2020 11:27, Mark Goodge wrote:
So, it seems that Fairfield [Road] isn't known to either OS or Google. 
It is shown (in abbreviated form) on streetmap.co.uk, but at that zoom 
level, in London, that's based on the Bartholomew A-Z maps rather than 
OS.


For what it's worth, I also found it in a street atlas published by 
Geographia. I don't know if that's the same company as A-Z. I also don't 
know the date of the street atlas and neither do I know how old a street 
atlas (non-OS) would have to be in order to be able to copy a name from it.


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Re: [Talk-GB] "secret" site

[Steve Doerr]

On 29/06/2020 22:56, Colin Smale wrote:
It was completed in 1964 as the GPO Tower. The GPO became the Post 
Office in 1969, at which time the tower was also renamed.


I stand corrected - partially. It seems to have been referred to in 
pariament as the Post Office Tower as early as 1963: https://bit.ly/2ZkUVah


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Re: [Talk-GB] "secret" site

[Steve Doerr]

On 29/06/2020 08:20, Ken Kilfedder wrote:
The GPO Tower (AKA Telecom Tower AKA BT Tower) only started to appear 
in public maps in 1984


I don't remember it ever being called the GPO Tower. It was always the 
Post Office Tower.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical edit - remove tracking parameters

[Steve Doerr]

On 13/05/2020 17:21, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:

May 13, 2020, 17:31 by doerr.step...@gmail.com:

 Will you limit individual changesets to fairly small geographical
units?

max changeset size in degrees (latitude): 0.3
max changeset size in degrees (longitude): 0.3


That's about twice the size of the local area I monitor, so that seems 
satisfactory.


Thanks,
Steve


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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical edit - remove tracking parameters

[Steve Doerr]

On 13/05/2020 12:40, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:

Proposed bot edit would remove links where all used parameters are 
tracking

users and may be removed.


Sounds good. Will you limit individual changesets to fairly small 
geographical units?


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Re: [Talk-GB] Anyone in South-West London?

[Steve Doerr]

Is this relevant/ 
https://ecoworldlondon.com/places-to-live/current/verdo-kew-bridge


Steve


On 30/03/2020 18:58, Andy Townsend wrote:


I've sent another "message to be read before continuing to edit" 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3592 .


It'd be good if everyone could have a look at 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/82834995 and comment there if 
there are further problems (I've added the first obvious question).  
I've explicitly said at the current block that they should answer 
questions that have been asked before any more editing.


Best Regards,

Andy

On 30/03/2020 18:35, Colin Smale wrote:


He's back, and he's unimpressed...

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/82834995

"Reverted edits as many of mine were falsely removed"


On 2020-03-25 21:54, Andy Townsend wrote:


On 25/03/2020 16:02, Jez Nicholson wrote:
Heh, none of the references on the Wikipedia page link to anything 
mentioning that it exists. I call bullsh/t


Indeed - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tfondie does not 
look promising.





On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:34 PM Andrew Hain 
mailto:andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk>> 
wrote:


I wonder if Tfondie who created the Wikipedia page may be the
same person.

I've "sent them a message that they have to read before continuing 
to edit" at https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3585 .


We'll see what happens next; if there's no reply after a week or so 
I'll revert their remaining edits that haven't since been edited by 
other users; most have been reverted already but some (such as 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/783299940 ) remain and look 
somewhat implausible.


Best Regards,

Andy (from the DWG)




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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline update

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/02/2020 12:14, Christoph Hormann wrote:

I am therfore
reluctant to newly review the document in detail because it seems a
waste of effort.


Don't bother then. No one will miss it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Steve Doerr]

On 15/02/2020 17:35, Tomek wrote:

- for continents, oceans, poles, and seas bordering any state, I will
completely remove this marker.


Don't do that. The golden rule should be: never remove another mapper's 
contribution unless it's incontrovertibly wrong.


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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Steve Doerr]

Please post in English if you want people to understand what you are 
trying to say. Otherwise, feel free to talk to yourself in Esperanto.


Steve

On 11/01/2020 22:12, Tomek wrote:

EO
W dniu 20-01-07 o 08:27, Mateusz Konieczny pisze:

Yes, but using it for a pragmatic reasons
for an international communication is
usually not imperialism.

I can try to communicate with group of  people
from different countries in Polish,
Latin, Sindarin or Esperanto.

But except rare cases using English is likely
to result in more efficient communication.
Vi povas paroli en la pola, kiu estas mia denaska lingvo. Mi ne miras, 
ke vi malsukcesis komunikadi per fikcia/arta lingvo kreita por 
prezenti mondon de hobitoj kaj elfoj. Latino taŭgas por nomi speciojn 
kaj por estroj de katolika eklezio. Esperanto fakte estas la plej 
efika maniero por komunikadi kaj ne diskriminacias iun ajn.


W dniu 20-01-07 o 02:32, Joseph Eisenberg pisze:

This will not work, because local mappers will constantly be adding
back "name=*" tags to get the feature to appear in their favorite map
style. If you want to define that a feature has no default language,
it would be good to use a new tag like "default:language=none" or
something similar, but it will be hard to determine when to use such a
tag.
Kiuj lokalaj mapigistoj? Ni parolas pri nomoj de Suda Oceano kaj 
insuloj proksime de Antarkto!


W dniu 20-01-07 o 13:28, Paul Allen pisze:
On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 at 12:21, ael > wrote:


On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 10:59:35PM +0100, Tom Pfeifer wrote:
> On 06.01.2020 21:32, Tomek wrote:
> > Exactly, does a buoy with the inscription "Baltic Sea" swim
at 56° N18°
> > E? No, there is simply water that Poles call the "Morze
Bałtyckie",
> > Germans "Ostsee", etc.
>
>
> > Please support (vote) my proposal or write a reason why not.
>
> For the count, +1 against.
And another +1, against.


Bringing back memories of AOL, me too.  +1 against.

--
Paul

Voĉoj sen klarigo (kaj sen proponita solvo) ne enkalkulas.
-3



PL
W dniu 20-01-07 o 08:27, Mateusz Konieczny pisze:

Yes, but using it for a pragmatic reasons
for an international communication is
usually not imperialism.

I can try to communicate with group of  people
from different countries in Polish,
Latin, Sindarin or Esperanto.

But except rare cases using English is likely
to result in more efficient communication.
Możesz pisać w języku polskim, który jest moim językiem. Nie dziwię 
się, że nie zdołałeś się porozumieć używając fikcyjneko/artystycznego 
języka prezentującego świat hobbitów i elfów. Łacina nadaje się tylko 
do nazywania gatunków i dla szefów Kościoła katolickiego. Esperanto w 
rzeczywistości jest najbardziej efektywnym sposobem na komunikację i 
nie dyskryminuje kogokolwiek. Polecam tekst (pisany przez anglika): 
https://eduinf.waw.pl/esp/util/espglobal/


W dniu 20-01-07 o 02:32, Joseph Eisenberg pisze:

This will not work, because local mappers will constantly be adding
back "name=*" tags to get the feature to appear in their favorite map
style. If you want to define that a feature has no default language,
it would be good to use a new tag like "default:language=none" or
something similar, but it will be hard to determine when to use such a
tag.
Którzy lokalni mapowicze? Mówimy o nazwach mórz Oceanu Południowego i 
wysp w pobliżu Antarktydy!


W dniu 20-01-07 o 13:28, Paul Allen pisze:
On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 at 12:21, ael > wrote:


On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 10:59:35PM +0100, Tom Pfeifer wrote:
> On 06.01.2020 21:32, Tomek wrote:
> > Exactly, does a buoy with the inscription "Baltic Sea" swim
at 56° N18°
> > E? No, there is simply water that Poles call the "Morze
Bałtyckie",
> > Germans "Ostsee", etc.
>
>
> > Please support (vote) my proposal or write a reason why not.
>
> For the count, +1 against.
And another +1, against.


Bringing back memories of AOL, me too.  +1 against.

--
Paul
Głosy bez wyjaśnienia (i bez zaproponowanego rozwiązania) nie wliczają 
się.

-3



EN
English fanatics, please read the text: 
http://sylvanzaft.org/verkaro/Esperanto-A_Language_for_a_Global_Village.pdf



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Re: [Talk-GB] Map with AI comes to the UK

[Steve Doerr]

On 11/01/2020 12:41, Rob Nickerson wrote:


In JOSM add it using:

wmts:https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/robjn/ck59jksa71nym1co31kr8mulb/wmts?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoicm9iam4iLCJhIjoid0dYNkY1QSJ9.A-0lzQOawGYICYPfURsjDA

And in iD Editor add it using:

https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/robjn/ck59jksa71nym1co31kr8mulb/tiles/256/{zoom}/{x}/{y}?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoicm9iam4iLCJhIjoid0dYNkY1QSJ9.A-0lzQOawGYICYPfURsjDA



And Potlatch?

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Re: [OSM-talk] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych ? names of international objects

[Steve Doerr]

This will take some research, but...

Many of these names will be translations or transliterations of one 
particular name first attested in one particular language. So, 'Black 
Sea' is likely to be a translation of some name in a different language 
and which has subsequently been translated into multiple other 
languages. Therefore, the name tag could contain the name in this 
original language, provided it is clearly the name that has been widely 
translated into other languages. (This is to avoid Ancient Greek and 
Latin names that do not correspond to the modern name in most languages.)


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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal process Wikipage - Adding note about the use of seperators for values

[Steve Doerr]

On 04/12/2019 18:42, Yves wrote:
The semicolon is one information out of many, I'm not sure we should 
add this in the already long 'proposal process' page.


Note that there is a slightly cryptic reference in 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_process#Compatibility_with_established_practices:


> Syntactic conventions for new tags

> There are some conventions about naming keys and values. Following 
them will help mappers to estimate the meaning of your tags without 
reading the documentation. Using a semicolon

> should be considered especially carefully.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Metropolitan France : what todo with all "supossed to be wrong" name:xx ?

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/11/2019 15:03, marc marc wrote:

-- those using the latin script are therefore probably false since the
presence of a single word is probably enough to detect the error.
is it better to delete them ? or some languages may have only one word
for "Metropolitan France" ?



Judging by https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q212429, the answer to the last 
question is no.


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[Talk-GB] Neighbourhood/LSOA Names

[Steve Doerr]

Does anyone recognize this? A few months ago, I remember visiting a 
website that was looking to crowdsource meaningful names for 
neighbourhoods. I think it was based on Census Output Areas, probably at 
the LSOA level. It had a map showing the boundaries of the areas, and 
they had preloaded suggested names for each one (possibly based on ward 
names?). You could click on an area and suggest a better name based on 
your local knowledge.


I'd be interested to find that website again. Or anything similar.

Thanks,
Steve


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Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way vs. tracks

[Steve Doerr]

On 29/09/2019 21:58, Edward Bainton wrote:
> running from 511,025.344 298,855.444 Meters to 510,856.672 
298,723.814 Meters

>
> I don't recognise that coordinate system: is it any help for OSM?

It's a millimetre-precision version of the Ordnance Survey grid 
reference. For conversion, see e.g. 
http://streetmap.co.uk/idgc.srf?x=511025.344=298855.444



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Re: [OSM-talk] HOT and the OSMF

[Steve Doerr]

On 26/03/2019 18:24, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:


In some countries (Mali for example), HOT is by far the institution 
with the most notoriety related to Openstreetmap - and it is often the 
only one. There, Openstreetmap appears to be a humanitarian mapping 
project under supervision and sponsorship of HOT. The confusion is 
real and the least the OSMF could do to start clearing it is to make 
sure that the domains are separate. http://hot.openstreetmap.org must 
not point to a HOT domain.




For what it's worth, I have no objection to the hot.openstreetmap.org 
redirect, and it seems perfectly logical that the 'hot.' prefix should 
point to a HOT domain. By all means introduce 
humanitarian.openstreetmap.org as well for a broader list of 
humanitarian projects using OSM.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass API turned off due to Upload Filter thread

[Steve Doerr]

On 21/03/2019 05:21, Roland Olbricht wrote:

the Overpass API shows only an informative
result today. This will last until about 20:00 UTC.


Could this be affecting nrenner.github.io/achavi, does anybody know?

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging of Argos stores

[Steve Doerr]

On 10/03/2019 15:15, David Woolley wrote:


Concessions aren't limited to Argos and have existed for decades, at 
least, in department stores.



Note that Argos is now a subsidiary of Sainsbury's. Wikipedia even 
states that 'Sainsbury's intend to close most if not all separate Argos 
shops and integrate them into its large Sainsbury's supermarkets', so it 
is not quite like a true concession.



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Re: [OSM-talk] WhoDidIt Feeds

[Steve Doerr]

On 09/02/2019 12:39, Steve Doerr wrote:
None of my WhoDidIt RSS feeds seem to have updated since 18/01/2019. 
The main one is 
http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/scripts/rss.php?bbox=0.184967,51.325448,0.618584,51.453992



Feeds have now resumed.


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[OSM-talk] WhoDidIt Feeds

[Steve Doerr]

None of my WhoDidIt RSS feeds seem to have updated since 18/01/2019. The 
main one is 
http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/scripts/rss.php?bbox=0.184967,51.325448,0.618584,51.453992


Has this service been discontinued or is there a known problem?


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Re: [Talk-GB] Possible Unattributed Map on Labrokes Website

[Steve Doerr]

On 07/02/2019 17:59, talk...@manet-computer.co.uk wrote:
Not sure if this is the right place to ask but is there anyone who can 
look at https://thegrid.ladbrokes.com/en/shoplocator to see if they 
are using OpenStreetmap data without proper attribution?



Looks like they are. Housenumber information in my local area matches 
exactly with what I've entered into OSM.



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[OSM-talk] Renaming Macedonia

[Steve Doerr]

Is there a plan?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Ground truth for non-physical objects

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/12/2018 09:41, Colin Smale wrote:
One other thing: in the UK the boundaries of the area and the local 
authority running that area are two different things. A local 
authority can run a combination of adjacent admin areas; some admin 
areas are defined in law without there being a local authority; and 
some admin areas are legally shared between councils. What we have in 
the official sources (e.g. OS Boundary-Line) shows the geometry of the 
areas, but it tells you nothing about the authority/ies "running" that 
area.



Hi, Colin. I'm British and I have no idea what you're talking about 
here. Could you quote some examples that I could relate to?



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[Talk-GB] Facebook Map Query - Thames rendered as Thanames

[Steve Doerr]

A user on the Facebook group 'UK Places Editors' has commented on the 
fact that some maps on Facebook pages in the vicinity of Putney Bridge 
(London) show the River Thames as 'Thanames'. See, for example, 
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Putney-Bridge/103150243057869



A bit of browser debugging shows that it's accessing the URL 
https://external-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/static_map.php?v=1013_provider=2=324x160=15=51.46701240%2C-0.21317368=en_GB=2



Note the parameter _provider=2


Can anyone shed light on what tile service is being used here and what 
could be causing the Thanames name to appear? I can see that adjacent 
tiles rendered at different times, so that the label 'Thames' occurs in 
a different position, could cause something that looks like 'Thanames' 
when they are joined together, but I can't produce any evidence of this.



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Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?

[Steve Doerr]

The same thing, by the looks of it: 
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Buckinghamshire_Council#Classified_Unnumbered_.28Class_III.29_and_Unclassified_Roads



Steve


On 24/09/2018 09:34, Stuart Reynolds wrote:

[Side question, albeit not totally off-topic]

Out of curiosity, I understand what a C road is, conceptually, but 
what might an “MC” designation mean? E.g. 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/426675505


Regards,
Stuart




On 24 Sep 2018, at 09:30, Paul Berry > wrote:


I would have thought lists like this should be on the Wiki, even if 
they don't make it to the map.


Regards,
/Paul/

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 at 21:34, Neil Matthews > wrote:


> If there are tertiary ways that don't meet the above criteria they
> should be listed in some form of text file for individual
editing if
> appropriate.

Where does this text file live? Better to add notes to the map /
fixmes
to the data.

Neil


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Re: [Talk-GB] 'historic' county boundaries added to the database

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/09/2018 16:04, Andrew Black wrote:

There is a very big difference

- ceremonial counties exist now and so are in scope for OSM.  As you 
say here are differences between them and admin counties when unitary 
authorties are involved

 - traditional counties are an attempt to recreate the past
So I don't think these trad counties have any ceremonial existence any 
more.  Which means they are just causing confusion.


I live in London. The place I live in has been inb the county of 
London since 1889. But the traditional county beast says I live in Surrey.



Then you will be familiar with the annual boat race between Oxford and 
Cambridge universities, at the start of which they toss a coin to decide 
who will row from the 'Surrey station' and who from the 'Middlesex 
station'. These counties still have cultural significance today.



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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Steve Doerr]

On 30/08/2018 22:26, Mark Goodge wrote:
It was incredibly confusing to visitors, as the hamlet was nowhere 
near the post town. So we inserted "near [parish name]" as the second 
line, when giving the address. 



Off-topic, but the Royal Mail have long discouraged the use of 'Near', 
but they do allow the use of 'Via'.



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Re: [Talk-GB] un-named roads in UK

[Steve Doerr]

On 30/08/2018 17:40, Ed Loach wrote:


I missed the start of this thread as I was away, but there are some 
unnamed roads in England with houses on that just have a postal 
address in the format


house name, hamlet name, parish name, postal town

or at least there is the one where I commented on this note:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1390266

for this way

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26465561



Referred to as Ravens Green Lane in this Historic England listing: 
https://www.historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1147155



Ordnance Survey doesn't seem to give it a name though.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Steve Doerr]

On 10/08/2018 21:41, Blake Girardot wrote:


But while I do not like the w3w solution, if they wanted to support
OSMF to improve w3w support in osm core and the ecosystem of tools I
would be all for giving it the exact same trial if the community
agreed.

But generally, I think plus codes are coming out looking quite good
from a technical perspective, both dynamically generated and static
uses like address signs and printed maps.




There's also Mapcode: http://www.mapcode.com/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Addressing systems (Was: Paper/Article about stagnation in OSM)

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/08/2018 09:22, oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch wrote:
I just tried to create the 3-words address for a building in Odessa, 
Ukraine. The system suggested "dressings.cookies.brothers". It would 
be close to impossible to transmit these three words over the 
telephone to a local taxi dispatcher.


Some people may just not know English words well enough. The same 
about 8 English letters. But 8 Cyrillic letters may work. If the UTF8 
encoding is used in a database then both Latin and Cyrillic letters 
could be used, and, perhaps, other scripts.


You can set the language to Russian. This, I believe, gives the address 
as лотерея.русый.замок


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Re: [Talk-GB] University of Northampton new campus - mapper required

[Steve Doerr]

Do they not have any architects' drawings they could share?


Steve



On 14/07/2018 12:11, talk...@manet-computer.co.uk wrote:


Is this something that could be done over a series of evenings and a 
couple of afternoons or is it a larger task?


Bing has some images, not sure how old they are.

*From:*David Earl [mailto:da...@frankieandshadow.com]
*Sent:* 13 July 2018 17:11
*To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
*Subject:* [Talk-GB] University of Northampton new campus - mapper 
required


The University of Northampton is opening a new campus very soon 
between between Bedford Road and New South Bridge Road. They would 
like to get a detailed campus map onto OSM as soon as possible, 
ideally by August 1. I haven't looked but I'm assuming this would have 
to be a ground survey as it is all new buildings so won't be on 
satellite (though maybe some building footprints might be), and in any 
case that wouldn't get down to the level of access doors, or building 
occupiers. If copyright permission can be obtained, I'm guessing they 
may have plans that could serve part of the job.


They would be open to employing someone to do the surveying, 
especially as it has a short timescale. I can't really do it as it's 
too far from home to do repeated trips or fit it into my current 
schedule, otherwise I'd have jumped at it (I worked with the contact 
doing Cambridge University maps, and I'm sending this with her 
permission).


If anyone is interested, please contact Amy Moore in their estates 
services department: amy.mo...@northampton.ac.uk 



David



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Re: [Talk-GB] Nottingham Cottage, Kensington

[Steve Doerr]

On 22/05/2018 19:22, Andy Mabbett wrote:

Nottingham Cottage, in the grounds of Kensington Palace, is in the
news as the new home of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex (Prince Harry &
Meghan Markle).


Not particularly new, as I believe they've lived there since their 
engagement.



It doesn't seem to be labelled on OSM. Can anyone oblige, and/ or give
its coordinates, please?


It's on this OOC OS map: 
https://maps.nls.uk/view/103028721#zoom=5=2286=5761=BT


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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Quarterly Project: Post Offices

[Steve Doerr]

On 04/05/2018 12:52, Lester Caine wrote:

it's not helped when postoffice.co.uk don't list the independent post 
offices in there search results! According to them Broadway does not 
have a post office ;)


It comes up for me at Russell Square, Back Lane, Broadway, 
Worcestershire, WR12 7AP. I searched on that postcode. Or is there 
another Broadway?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Donation from the Pineapple Fund

[Steve Doerr]

On 05/03/2018 12:39, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:21 PM, Dave F > wrote:



was it converted into hard currency?



all of the donated bitcoins should have already been converted to 
British pounds:


That'll be a 'no' then.

;-)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Errors in Street Names in Addresses

[Steve Doerr]

On 29/01/2018 11:36, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:


Ah, I see that tagging would create a lot of false positives in my
tool and make it much less useful!

My understanding is that addr:postcode should be used only as part of
an address. So if you want to put a postcode on a street (or part of a
street) then addr:postcode isn't the best tag to use. Instead, there's
a postal_code=* tag defined in the wiki at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:postal_code which would seem
to be more appropriate for this use case.




Maybe. But rather than open up a whole tagging debate and then 
potentially start a retagging exercise, would it make sense as an 
immediate fix for the tool to ignore objects with a highway tag?


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Re: [Talk-GB] Hull road renamed after rugby league star - BBC News

[Steve Doerr]

On 27/01/2018 13:21, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 27 January 2018 at 09:51, Colin Spiller  wrote:


I see malcolmh has already renamed it.

Cool, but my question was "Does anyone have the coordinates, or the ID
of the way, please?"


To which the answer, I think it's safe to say, is 'yes'.

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Re: [OSM-talk] iD news - v2.6.0 lots of new features...

[Steve Doerr]

From the change log:
'remove addr:unit field for gb, ie, si, tr'. 

I wonder why (re gb). Unit is quite a common element in UK addresses, isn't it?

Steve 

Sent from my iPhone

> I hope everyone takes a look at the changelog.
> 

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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/11/2017 22:04, Frederik Ramm wrote:

many papers had
misunderstood their journalistic impartiality as having to give both
sides of an argument equal coverage


Oh really?!! Well at least we now know where you stand, in case you ever 
put yourself forward as a candidate for the OSMF board.


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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/11/2017 20:50, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
One important aspect was missing in the announcement. The tool's new 
name is a tiny part of a much bigger set of community suggested and 
requested changes. Fully ignoring functionality changes that many 
community members suggested is biased.


Mechanical edit claim was also never justified -- saying it's a 
mechanical edit tool doesn't fit with the community's own definition, 
per wiki. Just the other day the importance of using the right word 
was mentioned - when I allegedly missed the word "deprecated". Let's 
keep things consistent, and not dilute or change the meaning of 
existing terms to fit the immediate agenda.




+1


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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/11/2017 08:20, weeklyteam wrote:
Yuri Astrakhanre-started 
the discussion on the Talk mailing list about the tool to do mechanical edits (it is now called/Sophox/). Yuri is perceived by many as unreasonable as before and tries to ignore all the unwritten rules in OSM.



"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one 
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress 
depends on the unreasonable man."

-George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman (1903)


Anyway, it's sad to see that WeeklyOSM has abandoned all attempt at 
impartiality.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/11/2017 10:59, Ilya Zverev wrote:

3 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:21, Andy Townsend  написал(а):



Last time you proposed this it took only a few seconds to identify problems 
with the data.  It's the same this time - at least some of the changes that 
your map suggests you're proposing to import 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2917373098 are incorrect (address info in 
this example).

How is the address info there incorrect? Did you see the correct address of the 
building? Googling shows that amenities there are indeed addressed by Markham 
Lane, just like the Markham Vale, the business centre that contains these.




The postcode (S44 5HB) is certainly wrong. Probably should be S44 5HS. 
Euro Garages (operator of the Shell garage we're talking about) is 
certainly listed at that postcode, which is Markham Lane, as you say. 
(So are 59 other locations.) Strangely, KFC and The Little Castle, on 
the same site, have a postcode of S44 5FD, which is Enterprise Way. 
Markham Vale as a whole covers about four separate development sites 
(subdivided into plots) on both sides of the M1.


In any case, Markham Ln should be expanded to Markham Lane.

addr:housenumber = 29A also looks suspicious, as this development is at 
Junction 29A of the M1!


Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

[Steve Doerr]

On 24/10/2017 18:07, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Tomas Straupis 
> wrote:


2017-10-24 15:56 GMT+03:00 Ryszard Mikke wrote:
> Why, in this case is it better to have Wikipedia links in OSM
point to
> disambiguation page instead of link Hillfort 1 in OSM to
Hillfort 1 in
> Wikipedia, link Hillfort 2 accordingly and fix Wikipedia doubts in
> Wikipedia?

  So that the case is not forgotten and fixed properly (i.e. ALL tags
fixed) by people who know how to do it, not by those who are doing
guesswork and just silencing the "qa" script. 


  But in general all automated guess-edits are reverted for the time
being because it was clearly stated they are unhelpful and so
unwanted.


Tomas, I do agree that there should not be an automatic script setting 
tags based on a heuristic. But what you are saying is very strange if 
I understood you correctly. What I read here is that the only people 
allowed to fix things are those that know ALL tags and their meaning. 
This goes counter to the common sense (nobody knows all 65000+ tags), 
and counter to the existing warnings, such as JOSM's validator "when 
in doubt, ignore them".  You can never have a person who knows 
everything about both - the place and OSM tags.


There are two axis of editing:  local knowledge and OSM knowledge. 
They are orthogonal - I could be a tagging expert, but not know the 
area, or a novice editor with the expert local knowledge.  
Additionally, "local knowledge" very rapidly decays as you move away 
from where you live - another street, neighborhood, city, state, 
country, continent.  If I see a problem, I can reasonably research the 
topic, gain knowledge, and fix the problems in my area of expertise. 
Of course someone who lives in the incorrectly tagged building, and 
happens to be an expert OSM editor would be ideal, but sorry, no such 
luck.


In most cases, the editors who decide to help will make data better. 
It might not be perfect, but it is better than before.  When you say 
you will revert things despite making data worse, just because you 
disagree with HOW the problem was found, and not on the basis of 
decreasing data quality, you go against the very idea of a common sense.


There is only one reasonable approach to editing - data should be in a 
better shape after you than before.  More accurate. More complete.  
Please don't make assumptions that the data has gotten worse just 
because you disagree that there should be a qa script - after all, you 
are using them yourself, and no one is reverting all your work based 
on that.




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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/10/2017 12:42, Dave F wrote:


Where did you get that address? Their website shows it as:

Spring River,
Talbot Lane,
Ebbsfleet,
DA10 1AZ


I got the address from a till receipt the first time I ate there, and 
also checked the Royal Mail site.



Which bit is Talbot Lane; it's not tagged.


I haven't found it yet, as it doesn't appear to be signed on the ground. 
Also, the road layout in OSM is based on aerial imagery and is out of date.


Steve

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

[Steve Doerr]

On 10/10/2017 19:07, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

It doesn't seem to have been mentioned here yet, but this quarter's UK
mapping project is to improve addresses and postcodes:
https://osmuk.org/uncategorized/jump-in-to-our-quarterly-mapping-project/




It would be useful to have some guidance on tagging for UK addresses. 
For instance, how would you tag the different elements of the following 
address for a pub/carvery that opened recently near me:


The Spring River
Talbot Lane
Weldon
Ebbsfleet Valley
SWANSCOMBE
DA10 1AZ

Regards,
Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] New OSM Quick-Fix service

[Steve Doerr]

Way to go!

 

This looks like just the kind of productivity tool OSM is crying out for. Great 
idea, Yuri.

 

Steve

 

 

From: Yuri Astrakhan [mailto:yuriastrak...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 13 October 2017 22:25
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools ; 
OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
Subject: [Tagging] New OSM Quick-Fix service

 

I would like to introduce a new quick-fix editing service.  It allows users to 
generate a list of editing suggestions using a query, review each suggestion 
one by one, and click "Save" on each change if they think it's a good edit.

 

For example, RU community wants to convert  amenity=sanatorium  ->  
leisure=resort + resort=sanatorium.  Clicking on a dot shows a popup with the 
suggested edit. If you think the edit is correct, simply click Save.

Try it:  http://tinyurl.com/y8mzvk84

 

I have started a Quick fixes wiki page, where we can share and discuss quick 
fix ideas.

* Quick fixes  

* Documentation 

 

 

This is a very new project, and bugs are likely. Please go slowly, and check 
the resulting edits. Let me know if you find any problems. Your technical 
expertise is always welcome, see the code at 
https://github.com/nyurik/wikidata-query-gui  The service has adapted some code 
from the Osmose project (thanks!)

 

TODO:

* Allow multiple edits per one change set

* Show objects instead of the dots

* Allow users to change comment before saving

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Re: [Talk-GB] "an extraordinary quirk in the UK address system"

[Steve Doerr]

On 13/09/2017 11:29, SK53 wrote:

Unfortunately reading the comments I noticed a remark about a No. 441A 
and I realised my interpolation must have had an error. On checking I 
found that I'd placed the known address one house over. This means 
that continuing the interpolation means that the last house on the 
Bolton side is 445. As the 441/441a is from an OS Map of uncertain 
date I felt I couldnt use that as input.




There is no 445 Manchester Road, Kearsley, BOLTON, according to the 
Royal Mail's postcode finder.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the Historic Boundaries of Wales: Commotes and Cantrefs

[Steve Doerr]

histo...@openstreetmap.org might also be interested in this.

On 19/05/2017 17:39, Andy Mabbett wrote:

[cross-posted]

FYI:

https://rcahmw.gov.uk/mapping-the-historic-boundaries-of-wales-commotes-and-cantrefs/

"The Royal Commission [on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of
Wales] has developed two digital geospatial layers using late-medieval
sources and historic parish boundaries to recreate the boundaries of
the commotes (cymydau) and cantrefs (cantrefi) of medieval Wales."




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Re: [Talk-GB] Legible London signs - tagging suggestions

[Steve Doerr]

On 10/01/2017 07:54, Robert Skedgell wrote:

ref=legible_london



I don't understand the rationale for this as a 'ref'. Refs are normally 
unique identifiers for a particular object (unique within a particular 
domain, that is). Thus each sign would have a different ref, if there 
were indeed a system of refs for Legible London signs. The value 
'legible_london' looks more like a network tag.


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Re: [OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #337 27/12/2016-02/01/2017

[Steve Doerr]

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/archives/8535, actually.

On 05/01/2017 11:58, weeklyteam wrote:

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 337,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/8514/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM?
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Steve Doerr]

Great. Thanks. 

Obviously the first priority is to get a UK-friendly slippy map up on the front 
page: blue motorways, green trunks, clear differentiation between A, B, C, and 
other roads, postcode and OSGR lookups, etc. 

Steve 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Jan 2017, at 13:38, Rob Nickerson  wrote:
> 
> Basic template site now online:
> 
> osmuk.org
> 
> Best regards,
> Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS and businesses run from home

[Steve Doerr]

There's a cupcake business locally which I suspect is a home business 
(as the streets in that area are only residential AFAIK). I haven't 
actually been there to check it out.


Steve

On 22/11/2016 15:54, Dave F wrote:

I think they're misusing 'private' where they mean 'personal'

I've only come across instances of mobile retailers. Does anyone have 
an example of a home business on the FHRS website?


If there's only a partial address/postcode how are OSM contributors 
adding them?

Are the co-ordinates provided?

DaveF.

On 22/11/2016 13:36, David Woolley wrote:

On 22/11/16 12:58, Dave F wrote:


On 21/11/2016 20:23, SK53 wrote:

A bit late, but according to the FHRS manual businesses run from
private addresses should be obscured (usually at the postcode district
level).


Do you have a link?


 
bottom of page 10.


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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS and businesses run from home

[Steve Doerr]

On 22/11/2016 15:22, Dave F wrote:

Are you now suggesting the electoral roll should be hidden? Please 
don't assume duplicating freely available data in OSM makes it 
'personal' or somehow tainted.




It is possible to be 'ex-directory' in relation to the electoral register.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Autumn Quarterly Project

[Steve Doerr]

On 13/11/2016 10:49, Dave F wrote:

Could you clarify how the 'distant matches' are calculated? I'm 
confused by a couple of the errors it's thrown up:

http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/district-270.html

'Sam Wellers', 'Longvernal Primary School' (at the very bottom). Their 
fhrs:ids match. There's no postcode in OSM & the FHRS postcode is 
close to it's true location. Their dashed lines point to the same 
location.


Dave, if you look at the raw data at 
http://ratings.food.gov.uk/OpenDataFiles/FHRS857en-GB.xml, you can see 
that the location for Longvernal Primary School is given as:



-3.04113507270813
51.16165924072270


which is way out. So this is indicative of an error in the FHRS data.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly project - taginfo tracker

[Steve Doerr]

On 09/11/2016 07:36, Greg wrote:

I’ve now implemented Steve’s request for more clickable links in the overview map for 
each district at . In addition to 
opening the web page for each FHRS establishment, you can now open the OSM page for 
each relevant node/way or load the node/way in JOSM. I decided to go with a JOSM link 
rather than a general one so that the ‘overview’ map links match the ‘suggested 
matches’ map links, which automatically add tags to the OSM node/way. Anyone not 
using JOSM can easily follow the OSM link and then click the Edit button.

I’ve also modified most links so that they open in a new tab/window by default 
as it seems more useful to be able to keep the map view open in the original 
tab/window.



That's great. Thanks, Greg!

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly project - taginfo tracker

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/10/2016 21:47, Greg wrote:

I think the most useful link would probably be one that loads the OSM 
node/way in JOSM using the remote control function in the same way 
that the suggested matches map links do. Obviously you’d have to put 
the address details into JOSM manually, but you could use the FHRS 
links on nearby blue dots to find these.


Thanks, Greg. I'm afraid the JOSM link would not be of use to me, as I'm 
a Potlatch user, but I realize I can't have the tool specifically 
tailored to me, so if JOSM is the predominant editor I guess that's 
where you will want to focus your attention.


Steve


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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly project - taginfo tracker

[Steve Doerr]

Thanks for providing this tool, Greg. I've found it very useful so far 
for adding address information based on the possible matches identified 
on the second map, where most of the dots have a link both to OSM and to 
the FHRS entry.


However, I've now reached the stage where I need to look more at the 
upper map, where there seem to be fewer clickable links. If you could 
provide links to OSM for every dot on the map, that would be helpful. 
(If you're showing them on your map, you must have derived a long/lat 
which you could link to.)


Hoping that this is not an unreasonable request - and apologies if it is.

Regards,
Steve



On 11/10/2016 07:37, Greg wrote:
These district statistics CSV files will now be copied each day to 
http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs-stats/, so there will be a 
file per day in case anyone would like to track progress.


Thanks,
Greg


On 9 Oct 2016, at 21:00, Greg > wrote:


The python-fhrs-osm tool will now create a CSV file containing 
statistics for each district each day, which should allow detailed 
tracking. It will be located at 
http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/stats--mm-dd.csv once 
the tool runs this evening.


Thanks,
Greg


On 4 Oct 2016, at 17:58, Greg > wrote:


In case it's useful for tracking, you can get the full list of tags used
by my comparison tool at the link below. The tool downloads nodes/ways
with those tags and any nodes/ways with an fhrs:id tag set.

https://github.com/gregrs-uk/python-fhrs-osm/blob/master/filter-osm.sh#L5-L13

Thanks,
Greg


On 02/10/16 17:38, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:


Off the top of my head, I'd have thought it would be good to know
about number of instances of fhrs:id=* and addr:postcode=*, and
numbers of eating type places (perhaps just one count for all
amenity=cafe|restaurant|fast_food|pub|bar). Maybe also the
number/proportion of such places that have a name tag. Possibly you
could do other measures postcode progress, such as number of unique
correctly-formatted postcodes in addr:postcode tags and/or number of
postcode sectors ("AB12 X..") with at least one addr:postcode tagged.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging redevelopment and closed roads

[Steve Doerr]

On 20/09/2016 10:38, Derick Rethans wrote:


If the items no longer function as how they are described, and not will
come back, I would delete them right away.


I disagree. Any feature in the landscape should remain mapped until it 
has actually disappeared. In the mean time, the 'disused:' namespace or 
similar should be used/


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Re: [Talk-GB] Rare postboxes no longer so rare?

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/09/2016 00:23, Rob Nickerson wrote:


I thought these postboxes were supposed to be really rare. Seems like 
loads have been added this year:


There are supposed to be about 130 of them(*), of which OSM has 140.

(*) http://inamidst.com/topic/edwardboxes

Steve



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Re: [OSM-talk] Convert Note to Node

[Steve Doerr]

Thanks. I was able to use the API links and copy-and-paste the 
co-ordinates into Level0 to create the nodes. It would probably be 
easier if the normal web page for notes would display the co-ordinates, 
and better still if there was something in Potlatch to create a node 
from a note.


Steve

On 22/08/2016 23:08, Toby Murray wrote:

Well you can go to the API and get the note XML which has the lat/lon
in it. The URL for this is:
http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/notes/

If you are using JOSM and use the note download feature, then notes
are shown on the map so you can just create a node in the same
location. Note support has not made it into iD yet.

Toby

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Steve Doerr <doerr.step...@gmail.com> wrote:

Has anyone built a utility to convert a note into a node?

Alternatively, is there a way to display the longitude and latitude of a
note in the same way as you can for a node?

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[OSM-talk] Convert Note to Node

[Steve Doerr]

Has anyone built a utility to convert a note into a node?

Alternatively, is there a way to display the longitude and latitude of a 
note in the same way as you can for a node?


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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

[Steve Doerr]

On 12/07/2016 00:23, Dave F wrote:


This system [...] doesn't work in the real world.


It's apparently used in Mongolia as of this month. So the proof of the 
pudding . . .


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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

[Steve Doerr]

Just came across this story: 
http://qz.com/705273/mongolia-is-changing-all-its-addresses-to-three-word-phrases/


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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project April-June 2016

[Steve Doerr]

On 01/04/2016 11:51, Ed Loach wrote:

With noon rapidly approaching I'll withdraw my earlier suggestion regarding 
deleting sadly-lacking-in-information buildings as part of a future project.



LOL. Brilliant! Took me in.

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Re: [OSM-talk] license changes

[Steve Doerr]

Thanks for revealing this. No idea how you knew about it when nobody 
else did, but it's good, even vital, that you've brought it out into the 
open. Whoever you are.


I must admit, I don't really understand what it's about, but it's 
clearly important.


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On 14/02/2016 00:24, Steve Coast wrote:

Any license change process, or anything remotely close to it, should be open 
and transparent. It should involve the community from the start and any company 
that wants to participate too.

This is painful, and it takes a long time to do. But it’s the right way to do 
it. And it’s what we did when we switched from CC to ODbL.

...

Recently a few people came up with a proposal to engage some various academic 
law students to provide analysis around the ODbL. This by itself is useful and 
interesting and to be applauded.

Unfortunately this had to be done in only a couple of days and thus the LWG 
didn’t get a chance to analyze it. It was presented to the OSMF instead as the 
law students need a client for whom to work, and they needed a client quickly 
as term is starting. It was hoped the OSMF would be that client. There was a 
briefing document on what the students should work on - the questions they 
would like them to answer. The document wasn’t written by the LWG or OSMF.

I and others were against this for a number of reasons: It was rushed. Few 
people were involved. The community were absent as were a broad set of 
companies. The briefing document appeared focused around companies customers 
and changing the license around geocoding rather than broader issues. It 
mentioned forking OSM and building scenarios around that. OSMF decided against 
it.

This legal work is apparently going forward now with the OSMF-US as the client.

…

It’s fair that within the OSMF or LWG or any group there might be differences 
of opinion, and those opinions not plastered over the internet. And it’s fair 
that they may need to consider some things, some times, in secret. That’s why I 
asked all those involved if there was a problem making this public (nobody 
objected), and it’s why there are no names named.

Here’s what I’m worried about: In a few weeks or months someone might be able to 
wave around a headline saying “{Famous University} law students and OSMF-US say ODbL 
needs changing to allow X, Y or Z”. Or. "{Famous University} law students say 
we can fork OSM and change the license”.

That would be possible if they’ve specifically been asked that and been 
presented a very specific viewpoint, perhaps from one commercial point of view.

I ask that this whole process be opened up to both the community and other 
companies with an interest in OSM so that it is fair, balanced and not subject 
to any real or perceived biases. Most of all, it shouldn’t happen secretly away 
from the community and then just the results presented as a fait accompli. We 
should actively recruit people to be part of this kind of work instead of 
keeping it quiet.

My understanding is that the ship has sailed and the students have started 
working with the scenarios they have been given. Hopefully I’m wrong, but if 
this is the case and the work has started, then I ask that OSMF-US throw out 
the results since the LWG, the community and other companies have not been 
involved at all in what the students are to be asked.

The OSMF-US and/or those involved are creating some communication channels for 
the work that is happening. It is a question for next months meeting whether 
the community will be allowed in to those channels or if there will be an 
announcement. It makes me and others uncomfortable that this is a question at 
all, as does waiting another month, or weeks, or whatever the timeframe is and 
then being presented with the results on how to change the license. You should 
know this work is happening, what has been asked and why, otherwise this isn’t 
a very open project.

Lastly, please come help with the LWG. More people involved in what’s happening 
can only strengthen OSM and help us do more.

Steve
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Re: [Talk-GB] Admin Boundaries in Northern Ireland

[Steve Doerr]

Looks like there is some open data available including 2012 districts (I 
think these are the 'super councils' referred to):

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/your-neighbourhood-roads-and-streets/ordnance-survey-of-northern-ireland/product-range/digital-products/large-scale-vector-boundary-data.htm

Steve


On 27/01/2016 11:50, Killyfole and District Development Association wrote:

Hi Walter,

We don't actually have defined cities like in other parts of the world. In
fact there are only 5 which are classed as cities.  They are Armagh, Belfast,
Derry/Londonderry, Lisburn and Newry.

Historically, each city had its own council. But recently the councils have
been merged into what we called super councils.   For example the new super-
council covering Armagh City, now covers a huge area and is called "Armagh
City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council"  the only completely intact
council being Belfast City Council.

The boundaries are defined by the OSNI/LPS and up until a few months ago all
their data was Crown copyright.  They have started to release some data under
an Open Government Licence but this is a slow, painful process!  The Royal
Mail also own the addresses and postcodes here and while they have been forced
to "open" the postcode in other parts of the UK, they still refuse to do it
here.  This makes all data sources we would need to plot city boundaries are
copyrighted by various organisations.

I hope this explains the situation here in "Norn Iron"

Clive (KDDA)

On Wednesday 27 January 2016 11:52:12 Walter Nordmann wrote:

thx, Colin.

But it can't be ok that there are no city boundaries in N-I any more.
Ok, counties may be historic now, but Cities?

see: https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=belfast%2C ireland

only result is a place-node. OMG

Regards
walter

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Wales data

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/01/2016 15:55, Bogus Zaba wrote:

On 19/01/16 14:58, Lester Caine wrote:

http://www.education.gov.uk/edubase/edubasealldata20160119.csv
36Mb, and a little slow downloading, but has all the data and seems to
be updated regularly even if it still has old website url's and other
content ;)


Lester -

Thanks for this, but I think this link is not fully functional right
now. Firefox, Chromium and a simple
wget command all give me a truncated file about 6.6MB. Needless to say
it's missing the
Welsh Council areas.



I just downloaded it using Leechget: 36 MB, 43962 rows in Excel.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Review plan for adding 1, 164 wikidata tags in the West Midlands

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/01/2016 12:55, Lester Caine wrote:

On 17/01/16 11:08, Edward Betts wrote:

This is the list of Wikidata tags that I actually plan to add:

https://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/west_midlands/matches_2016-01-16.txt

Please remove the School list from this. We are currently adding the
edubase references to each of these, and this will replace the need for
an additional wikidata tag. Better to just have the one primary reference.



-1

Leaving aside any arguments over whether we should have Wikidata links 
at all, it seems a bit ludicrous to exempt one specific category of 
objects in one specific country simply because that country has its own 
local referencing system for that kind of object. If anything, Wikidata 
should take precedence as it is worldwide and not confined to a single 
category of objects. Having both references could provide the 
opportunity for cross-validation in the future, if EDUBASE numbers are 
added to Wikidata (or vice versa).


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Re: [OSM-talk] Missing Background Layers

[Steve Doerr]

On 08/01/2016 22:34, Simon Poole wrote:

Am 08.01.2016 um 23:25 schrieb tony wroblewski:

Silly question, why would you trace from Mapnik, since it's OSM anyway?

There are many reasons why you might want to use a non-imagery
background (or overlay which essentially all have gone too), for example
large scale orientation or highlighting specific features, editing in
areas without useful areial imagery and so on.

Simon



Yes, indeed.

So, could we have our background layers back, please?

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[OSM-talk] Missing Background Layers

[Steve Doerr]

When editing in Potlatch 2, the list of background layers seems rather 
short. In particular, Mapnik (the default style) is not on the list.


Bug? Or change of policy?

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[OSM-talk] Belgium/Netherlands Boundary Change

[Steve Doerr]

Just read this article about a territory-swap between The Netherlands 
and Belgium: http://actualite24.info/post/316916


I wonder if this has taken effect yet? It's not reflected in OSM 
currently. I think I'll leave it for the local communities to action.


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Re: [Talk-GB] NLS OS 6in E in Potlatch & iD

[Steve Doerr]

On 30/12/2015 18:31, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 30/12/15 18:26, Steve Doerr wrote:

On 30/12/2015 18:09, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 30/12/15 17:04, Steve Doerr wrote:

On 03/01/2015 17:47, Tom Hughes wrote:


They changed the URL for that layer recently when they merged the
separate England+Wales and Scotland layers for the 2nd edition 6 inch
maps into one layer. I've updated the wiki, but this should work:

tms:http://nls-{switch:0,1,2,3}.tileserver.com/os_6_inch_gb/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg 






Changed again?


Yes, it's now behind an API key because that is one of the layers they
are now selling access to:

http://maps.nls.uk/projects/subscription-api/



OK. Well, this worked for me:
http://nls-0.tileserver.com/fpsUZbxtgtkn/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg


Yes I knew the API key they were using on their own site, but I wasn't 
going to broadcast it to everybody given it is clearly their intent 
that people wanting a key should cough up


Oops!

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Re: [Talk-GB] NLS OS 6in E in Potlatch & iD

[Steve Doerr]

On 30/12/2015 18:09, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 30/12/15 17:04, Steve Doerr wrote:

On 03/01/2015 17:47, Tom Hughes wrote:


They changed the URL for that layer recently when they merged the
separate England+Wales and Scotland layers for the 2nd edition 6 inch
maps into one layer. I've updated the wiki, but this should work:

tms:http://nls-{switch:0,1,2,3}.tileserver.com/os_6_inch_gb/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg 





Changed again?


Yes, it's now behind an API key because that is one of the layers they 
are now selling access to:


http://maps.nls.uk/projects/subscription-api/



OK. Well, this worked for me: 
http://nls-0.tileserver.com/fpsUZbxtgtkn/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg


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Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch down?

[Steve Doerr]

On 16/12/2015 13:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

Is it just me or is the OSM's built-in potlatch editor not currently working?

It loads and the editing functions all seem to work fine, but every
time I press save on the "Save Changes" dialog box, I get an the
message "Error creating changeset", and nothing is saved.




Same here!

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Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch down?

[Steve Doerr]

On 16/12/2015 15:57, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

Is it just me or is the OSM's built-in potlatch editor not currently
working?

Should be fixed now. TomH identified that a Passenger upgrade caused
requests to break, though exactly why isn't yet clear...



Thanks. Now working for me and I didn't even lose the edits I'd started.

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[OSM-talk] Changeset Revert Request

[Steve Doerr]

I spotted this on the Malaysia forum: 
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=566307 . Here's the 
extent of the damage: https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=35942702 .


Can anyone assist?

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Re: [Talk-GB] ITO World - OSM OS Locator Analysis

[Steve Doerr]

I think the URL may have changed. Try 
http://product.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main


Steve

On 10/12/2015 22:34, Robert Neil wrote:


ITOWorld OSM / OS Locator missing street analysis has been off for a 
couple of weeks with page not found.


Anyone know what is happening with it?

Regards,

Robert



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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

[Steve Doerr]

I've read articles about it a few times, and for fun I sometimes post my 
w3w location on Facebook. But I don't know if it's achieved much traction.


One maps site that I use from time to time, www.streetmap.co.uk, 
includes w3w addresses for searching and on its 'convert co-ordinates' 
screen, e.g. http://www.streetmap.co.uk/idgc.srf?x=530051=179922 (10 
Downing Street).


Maybe our search box could do the same, either directly or through 
integrating into Nominatim. I wouldn't suggest storing w3w addresses in 
the main OSM database though.


Steve


On 22/11/2015 10:39, Colin Smale wrote:


I have heard a few times recently about what3words, a new novel 
coordinate/addressing system for the whole world.


Could/should we be doing anything to support/facilitate/implement this 
system in OSM?


http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/feature/2434706/move-aside-google-maps-the-future-of-navigation-is-just-three-words

--colin



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Re: [Talk-GB] traffic calming

[Steve Doerr]

On 22/11/2015 19:37, Chris Hill wrote:


Mechanical edits need to be discussed. He then
indicated that he would discuss the tags on tagging@ - indeed he
suggested leaving his edit and discussing it on tagging@. I wanted also
to make it clear that tagging@ is not the best place to discuss
mechanical edits


So where is?

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Re: [Talk-GB] Restoring a usable map service!

[Steve Doerr]

Lester,

In the short term, would substituting http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/ 
solve your rendering problems?


Steve

On 31/10/2015 02:09, Lester Caine wrote:

OK ... what do we need to do to get a working UK map again?

Bing and Google are almost useless, and the new indistinguishable
rendering primary routes and motorways on OSM once everything finally
re-renders are going to be useless as well. I've just spent another
couple of hours trying to remember where I got to with the machine I've
been trying to build here to provide just the UK and Ireland, but I'm
going to have to go back to first principals and ignore the Nginx layer
and go back to slow old Apache for the tile cache :(

I know why the current tile servers can't handle more than one style,
and in my book THAT was the first problem that needed fixing rather than
forcing a complete new style sheet with no option to retain the current
style in parallel. So what do we need to do to get a UK friendly service
working?

I would like to throw into the mix that it would make sense to me if a
complete new rendering service also handled historic mapping as well
which should be relatively easy to do if confined to just the UK, but I
think we may need to be open to rendering more than just the UK?

It's bad enough at the moment tying to cope with W10 being rammed into
my clients systems and breaking perfectly good operational hardware,
android apps changing various operating procedures in illogical ways,
and the various 'browser improvements' resulting in even more legacy
sites no longer working without also having to start reworking every map
used across my client base. OSM is the only source that has much of the
detail that I need to show, and retaining blue ad green road links is
essential in my book ... and one of the reasons I started even
developing with OSM.




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Re: [Talk-GB] 'Romantic London' - reusing Horwood's 1790's map

[Steve Doerr]

motco.com is very good as well, specifically http://motco.com/map/

Steve

On 27/10/2015 14:41, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
For those of you interested in old maps generally, you may already be 
aware of the site http://www.mapco.net/ which has a wide selection of 
freely-viewable historical maps of London and other places. They are 
only images, and they are not digitised, however they are very useful 
for finding old places and tracking changes of street names. Note that 
they are copyrighted images so we can’t use them in OSM (as far as I 
can tell) - see http://www.mapco.net/terms.htm - but for people who 
are generally interested in maps you might find it of interest!


Cheers
Stuart


On 27 Oct 2015, at 13:30, Andy Mabbett > wrote:


I witnessed a fascinating presentation, this morning, on a project
which has digitised the first map of London at building level, and
overlays it with data from other sources:

http://www.romanticlondon.org/

The data sets are freely available, but the British Library claims
copyright over the map images - I'm sure some of you will have your
own views about this.

I shall notify the project's creator, Dr Matthew Sangster, about this
post, and invite him to join this list. He would be a good speaker for
a future OSM conference.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] NLS OS 6in EW in Potlatch iD

[Steve Doerr]

On 26/08/2015 21:58, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 26/08/15 21:35, Steve Doerr wrote:


Anyone know if there's a tms address for the imagery set shown here:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=8lat=51.6206lon=-0.1766layers=176 
?


Oohh... That's new... Yes, there is but as they are county series maps 
they seem to have one URL per county. Ones I have identified so far are:


 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata2/os/25_inch/middlesex/{z}/{x}/{y}.png
 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata2/os/25_inch/essex/{z}/{x}/{y}.png
 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata2/os/25_inch/england_holes/{z}/{x}/{y}.png
 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata2/os/25_inch/kent/{z}/{x}/{y}.png
 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata2/os/25_inch/surrey/{z}/{x}/{y}.png
 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata2/os/25_inch/sussex/{z}/{x}/{y}.png
 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata2/os/25_inch/buckingham/{z}/{x}/{y}.png
 http://geo.nls.uk/mapdata2/os/25_inch/london/{z}/{x}/{y}.png



Thanks, Tom. As luck would have it, my home town is mostly on the kent  
layer, but partly on england_holes!


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Re: [Talk-GB] NLS OS 6in EW in Potlatch iD

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/01/2015 17:47, Tom Hughes wrote:

On 03/01/15 17:05, Steve Doerr wrote:

I'm sure I've used the National Library of Scotland's set of 6-inch OS
maps for England and Wales (1888-1913) as a background layer in Potlatch
2 before now, but at the moment I can't seem to get it to work. I've
also tried unsuccessfully in iD. I'm probably doing something very
simple wrong. Could someone else try it and confirm what URL they're
using? The layer is documented here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland#Using_the_NLS_historical_mapping_for_OSM_editing. 



They changed the URL for that layer recently when they merged the 
separate England+Wales and Scotland layers for the 2nd edition 6 inch 
maps into one layer. I've updated the wiki, but this should work:


tms:http://nls-{switch:0,1,2,3}.tileserver.com/os_6_inch_gb/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg 



Anyone know if there's a tms address for the imagery set shown here: 
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=8lat=51.6206lon=-0.1766layers=176 ?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging concert / music hall

[Steve Doerr]

On 20/07/2015 18:39, Peter vd Kamp wrote:

Music hall is used for buildings where you can listen to e.g. rock 
concerts or new, promising bands (e.g. Heineken Music Hall (HMH), 
Ziggo Dome (ZD), both in Amsterdam).


The term 'music hall' in British English denotes a very different thing. 
In fact, it's a historical term relating to the entertainment of the 
19th and early 20th centuries. As far as I know, music halls were like 
theatres inside, but used for mainly musical entertainment (a singer on 
the stage accompanied by a band of musicians in the pit). They are 
particularly remembered for comic songs like 'Daisy, Daisy', 'Henery the 
Eighth', 'A little of what you fancy does you good', etc., which are 
still sometimes sung in 'community singing' settings.


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Re: [Talk-GB] OS Open Names

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/06/2015 18:57, Chris Hill wrote:

You can use the tiles in JOSM and P2 using the url below[2]


[2] http://www.raggedred.net/tiles/opennames/{z}/{x}/{y}.png 


For Potlatch 2, I think it needs to be 
http://www.raggedred.net/tiles/opennames/$z/$x/$y.png. 
http://www.raggedred.net/tiles/opennames/$z/$x/$y.png


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Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Steve Doerr]

On 28/05/2015 10:30, Komяpa wrote:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/286131994 - Slough, GB. 
Pronounced /ˈslaʊ/, which corresponds to russian Слау.
Wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slough links to russian 
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%83.

That translation was added in 30451655 and deleted in 30706979.

Automatically translated province in Russian is called Слоф, not Слау:
https://ru.wargaming.net/globalmap/#province/slough
 - and we have no way to correct that, if we don't add name:ru for it 
to OSM.




There might be a case for adding pronunciations (of 'difficult' names at 
least) to the OSM database. Someone must have proposed a tagging scheme 
for this, surely?


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Re: [Talk-GB] Issue with Changeset

[Steve Doerr]

Look here instead: 
http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#17/50.0553/-5.6555num=4mt0=mapnikmt1=google-mapmt2=bing-mapmt3=nokia-map


Steve

On 15/05/2015 10:44, Paul Sladen wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2015, Jason Woollacott wrote:

Looks like there has been an issue with changeset 30821940 Which
seems to have added the A30 through the whole of Cornwall
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30821940

Could you describe in slightly more detail /what/ is probably
wrong/broken.  I've skimmed the route, comparing it to other
providers:

   
http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#14/50.6104/-4.4456num=4mt0=geofabrikmt1=google-mapmt2=bing-mapmt3=nokia-map

and (positionally) there would appear to be reasonable consistency.
Is it new nodes, or a meta-data issue (eg. swapped with A39); or
something else?

   Caveat emptor: I'm not a local.

-Paul




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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap newbie - help/guidance to convert OSM XML data to .gpx

[Steve Doerr]

On 06/05/2015 14:27, Ángel de Vicente wrote:

sorry, let's see if I can explain myself better. The attachment in my 
previous mail is what I got from the page https://mapmatching.3scale.net/




They seem to have their own forum 
(https://mapmatching.3scale.net/forum). You might do better to ask on there.


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Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?

[Steve Doerr]

I once saw some friends on Facebook discussing the state of a road local 
to them in Dorset, and they referred to it by its C number throughout. 
Personally, I quite like the fact that our map has C numbers on where 
other maps don't. What I don't like, though, is seeing U numbers for 
unclassified roads, which are cluttering up the map of my home area 
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.42292/0.34775).


Steve

On 04/05/2015 08:35, Graham Jones wrote:


I don't know where the discussion got to, but thought I should point 
out that at least one road in North Yorkshire is a C road that is 
signposted as such.
The road here does have signs with the C designation. 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5696/-1.0016

I don't think I added it so at least one other person must agree!

Cheers

Graham

from my Phone (hence dodgy spelling!)

On 4 May 2015 01:20, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com 
mailto:dave...@madasafish.com wrote:


Hi

I seem to remember there was general consensus that C class roads
shouldn't have their reference number in the ref tag as they
aren't really for public use, such as on signs or maps, but the
official use of local councils etc.

It was suggested, therefore, to swap them to a tag like off_ref,
or some such similar. Was this agreed upon?

If there is consensus I personally think this would be a valid use
of a mass edit due to the large number
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/98Y Does anyone have experience of
doing such a auto edit?

Cheers
Dave F.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Road-name oddity in Bath

[Steve Doerr]

See also the Comments section here: 
http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/8203-Victoria-Bridge-passageway-close-weeks/story-23347562-detail/story.html#comments


Steve

On 04/05/2015 00:37, Dave F. wrote:

Hi Andy

While what was there before certainly wasn't correct I don't believe 
Nick Austin's recent edits correct the situation.


There certainly is a Stanier Road along that stretch along with an Ivo 
Peters Rd. Where those two concatenate is uncertain.


ITO has no Ivo Peters:
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/map_browser?bbox=350785,152770,380729,171227referrer=area 



However there is an Ivo Peters road sign.
https://goo.gl/maps/Or3TH

I've re edited to what I think is the correct layout, but wiling to be 
proven wrong.


Dave F.


On 02/05/2015 18:49, Andy Mabbett wrote:

Around:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=51.38137mlon=-2.37016#map=19/51.38137/-2.37016

Stanier Road seems to become Ivo Peters Road, then Stanier Road again

Meanwhile, slightly to the NE, there is another Ivo Peters Road.

Is something mis-tagged?




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Re: [OSM-talk] Next: Relation name (WAS: Removing redundant routing instructions)

[Steve Doerr]

On 28/04/2015 13:23, Lester Caine wrote:

Reading the objections on 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/through_route and 
to be honest, the example used is simply wrong.


How about this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/21745867? Contrary 
to rational expectations, the 'through route' here is Groombridge Hill 
- Langton Road, and Ashurst Road has give-way lines.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Removing redundant routing instructions

[Steve Doerr]

On 26/04/2015 12:35, Rob Nickerson wrote:

In the UK (particularly in rural areas) it is common to find a road 
that turns 90 degrees to the left or right without a junction (that is 
the road just continues and white lines mark it as such). Meanwhile 
another road may come in from the other side with a 'give way' style 
junction.


One simple way of representing this situation is to place give_way nodes 
on the subsidiary roads. Whether any routers or renderers make use of 
these to deduce that a particular route through the junction is the 
'through route', I don't know.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Removing redundant routing instructions

[Steve Doerr]

As I understand it, there is an implied direction in that the convention 
is that the give_way node applies to the nearest intersection involving 
the way. But yes, I can see that involves extra computation.


Steve

On 27/04/2015 09:51, Colin Smale wrote:


The trouble with nodes is that they are non-directional. Junctions in 
quick succession, and lane-dependent give-ways could make a 
challenging scenario for a program to try and make sense of. Why not 
tag it explicitly instead of leaving it to heuristics which (by 
definition) will not always get it right?


//colin

On 2015-04-27 10:06, Steve Doerr wrote:


On 26/04/2015 12:35, Rob Nickerson wrote:
In the UK (particularly in rural areas) it is common to find a road 
that turns 90 degrees to the left or right without a junction (that 
is the road just continues and white lines mark it as such). 
Meanwhile another road may come in from the other side with a 'give 
way' style junction.

One simple way of representing this situation is to place give_way nodes on the 
subsidiary roads. Whether any routers or renderers make use of these to deduce 
that a particular route through the junction is the 'through route', I don't 
know.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Mechanically Cleaning Up FIXME Tags

[Steve Doerr]

On 26/02/2015 18:25, Paul Johnson wrote:
Now that we have an anointed notes system, how about an automated 
move to notes, with the owner of the note being the person who 
originated the FIXME?




Personally I'd rather keep any FIXMEs on the objects that they relate to.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Road Names Quarterly Project

[Steve Doerr]

On 17/02/2015 23:05, Paul Bivand wrote:

A small story about this:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31117763/history

Laurie Gray Avenue, Bluebell Hill, Kent, used to have a street sign saying
Laurie Gray.

Various council documentation and OS locator referred to the 'Avenue' form.

After two discussions an openstreetmap mapper asked the relevant council
(Tonbridge and Malling) who replied 'That's funny, we'd better sort that' or
words to that effect.

The sign now has the Avenue suffix.

Actually, I rather regret the change as I was imagining the person the road
was named after telling the council that if they wanted to call it an avenue
they'd better plant trees along it. As there were no trees, no Avenue.



But it is now tagged:

name=Laurie Gray Avenue
not:name=Laurie Gray Avenue

!

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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Steve Doerr]

On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
[snip]

I guess we might need to be a little careful: 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/one-spelling-error-costs-companies-house-up-to-9-million-after-being-sued-for-ruining-business-10007372.html


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Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset messaging Notes feature question

[Steve Doerr]

On 31/12/2014 21:17, Dave F. wrote:

On 31/12/2014 16:16, Tom Hughes wrote:


Is there a way to remove notes from the map once loaded? Re-clicking 
the

icon, Closing the left hand pane or even refreshing (f5) makes no
difference. It's kind of annoying.


Just turn off the notes layer.


Nope; you're going have to give more detail than that, I'm afraid.



Delete the bit in the URL that says layers=N

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