Re: [Talk-us] Municipal Tree Survey

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Does your small city have a GIS system, or GIS specialist?  Best to
coordinate with what they're doing if possible.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Adam Old  wrote:

> Hello all, I am a fairly novice mapper, although I am learning quickly.
> This is my first post to talk-us, so let me know if this is the wrong place
> to ask these questions.
>
> I am currently sitting on a "Tree Board" in a small city in South Florida.
> One mandate of the board is to survey the existing tree canopy in an
> ongoing fashion and to provide recommendations for trimming, removal, or
> new plantings, to note diseases and damage, and to collect species
> information.
>
> I am a proponent of OpenStreetMap and crowdsourcing as much of the data
> collection as possible, as we are without much of a budget or staff. But I
> wonder whether this is an appropriate use for OSM, and if so, whether there
> are caveats or special things we should be thinking of. One of the other
> members of the board is an experienced GIS user, and he also likes the idea
> of using OSM.
>
> For the most part we would like to send people out using their mobile
> devices and an app like Go Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/go-map!!/
> id592990211?mt=8 or a paper survey form that we could then update OSM
> with. Hopefully this would introduce a good number of new people to OSM as
> mappers and/or users. We also were hoping to add some datapoints for the
> diameter_crown and height using LiDAR and aerial data. Any suggestions on
> this?
>
> There is some information that isn't standard for Tag:natural=tree that
> would be useful for us in this pursuit, for example whether the trees are
> damaged, need trimming, date of last trimming, etc. Maybe that is too
> specific to map and we shouldn't add that kind of data? If I were to add
> it, would I simply add my own tags? I would like to do this right.
>
> Also, is there a map view with diameter_crown displayed as the actual
> size?
>
> Also also, is there any thinking on differentiating between palm trees and
> other broadleaved trees? Seems like a worthwhile distinction, here in the
> tropics.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Municipal Tree Survey

[Jerry Clough - OSM]

  From: Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>
 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
 Sent: Monday, 19 September 2016, 19:09
 Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Municipal Tree Survey
   
Hi,

On 09/19/2016 05:13 PM, Adam Old wrote:
> For the most part we would like to send people out using their mobile
> devices and an app like Go
> Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/go-map!!/id592990211?mt=8
> <https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/go-map%21%21/id592990211?mt=8> or a
> paper survey form that we could then update OSM with. Hopefully this
> would introduce a good number of new people to OSM as mappers and/or
> users. 

Sounds like a win-win situation.


Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

I'd agree with Frederik.
Only this morning I was looking at a site for volunteer tree wardens in Surrey, 
England; and at the weekend a friend in our party was visiting what are known 
as veteran trees in Kent.
  
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STWN
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We already have a fairly extensive set of tags for mapping trees and their 
attributes. In a few places well-attributed tree data has been imported to OSM: 
take a look at Vienna of the London Borough of Southwark as examples for a 
reasonably extended set of tags.
Basically I would look for a minimum of circumference (in UK this is usually 
Breast-height girth BHG or roughly circumference at 1.5 m above ground level), 
species (& if appropriate cultivar). Not strictly necessary but very useful are 
genus (especially if precise species is not known, or for things like flowering 
cherries), leaf_type & leaf_cycle (both make it easier for data consumers & 
editors). Date of planting is very useful but often not readily available.
Now to other things:
   
   - Height. Harder to survey if not specifically equipped for the purpose. 
Obviously useful.
   - Spread. Again a bit harder to survey, although finding the drip line on 
wet days makes it easier. This is less often added to tree data in OSM, but 
there was an interesting HOT project using tree spread to estimate fire risk. I 
have the details somewhere.
   - Condition. I think as long as volunteers are working from a protocol to 
assess tree condition there is no trouble in adding it. If you do have a given 
scale then it may be worth adding the information to the wiki, and then others 
can use it. It may also be useful to use a condition:description tag to add 
additional information (e.g., crown thinning, leaf spot, fungal growth etc).
   - Survey Date (actually should be tagged last_survey_date). Important for 
assessing things like height & condition, but also circumference. The 
professional arboriculturalists woring for my local council seem to get round 
the tree estate every 3 years: adding or updating tags at his frequency on OSM 
is unlikely to cause any issues.
   - Proposed Work. This is the only item raised which does not fit into OSM 
typical tagging approach, but I can see no harm in it.

Lastly & most important from a mapping/tagging perspective:

By all means use OSM but create & maintain your own unique identifiers for the 
trees. OSM identifiers are not guaranteed to be stable, and the nodes may 
accidentally be re-purposed. Current best practice is for trees to be labelled 
with a tag giving the identifier for the tree register ( (See this site for 
examples). Even if a register is only kept in a spreadsheet (which I wouldn't 
recommend as I've accidentally created duplicates when doing it myself) the 
identifiers can be added to OSM as ref tags. 

For actual mapping of trees either use an enhanced version of an existing OSM 
tool (e.g., Vespucci can read xml files designed for josm), or combine 
something more dedicated to capturing tree data with more accurate GPS readings 
(I use ObsMapp & add Garmin waypoint info when recording species detail). To 
date I've found using a mobile phone app GPS a little unreliable when mapping 
trees which are close together, the individual trees are often not positioned 
correctly in relation to adjacent trees. If you have good quality aerial 
imagery (or even better Lidar) then use this as the guide. A tape measure or 
digital measurer, and compass are still useful tools for getting correct 
relationships within a grove of trees.
Lastly, I'd like to point out that this data is useful for many purposes. As an 
enthusiastic amateur entomologist I often want to search out rarer trees to see 
if I can find particular insects. I've written about the possibilities for 
using city tree registers for education here: From Mapping Trees to Tree 
Trails: some thoughts
Best wishes with the project.
Jerry
Coda: I was vaguely aware of OpenTreeMap but they seem to be anything but open 
with a monthly charge of 80 bucks.
  
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>From Mapping Trees to Tree Trails: some thoughts
 The other day I engaged in a twitter c

Re: [Talk-us] Municipal Tree Survey

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 09/19/2016 05:13 PM, Adam Old wrote:
> For the most part we would like to send people out using their mobile
> devices and an app like Go
> Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/go-map!!/id592990211?mt=8
>  or a
> paper survey form that we could then update OSM with. Hopefully this
> would introduce a good number of new people to OSM as mappers and/or
> users. 

Sounds like a win-win situation.

Two thinks you should be aware of though:

1. OSM usually maps what is visible on the ground. Whether a tree is
damaged or not, is something an experienced person could probably
determine with the naked eye, so that's ok. If you venture into the area
of rating things ("health of this tree from 1=perfect to 6=rotten") then
it becomes difficult, as people might disagree. Sticking to observable
facts helps avoid problems. "Date last cut" is also something that won't
be visible on the ground and hence isn't strictly something within the
OSM envelope but I guess it's harmless on the scale you're attempting it.

2. Putting data in OSM also means that you're surrendering any authority
over it; others who have no relation to your organisation can and will
modify (hopefully, improve) the data. I assume you'll count that as a
blessing and not a curse and then all is fine. It's just that some
people are peculiar with "their" data ("what, only registered and
trained members of the Springfield City Tree Board can be trusted with
assessing the tree cover, keep out you unwashed public" etc).

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-us] Municipal Tree Survey

[Kevin Kenny]

I really like these experimental projects, especially if their methods are
documented. Where I get nervous is if there is some other source that is
'authoritative', and OSM winds up becoming a repository for stale data.
That doesn't appear to be the case here, but it's certainly something to
watch out for.

As far as "palm trees vs other broadleaved trees" - come up with a tagging
scheme. The existing scheme isn't actually supposed to be conifers vs
broadleaved trees - it's supposed to be evergreen vs. deciduous trees. In
my part of the world, laurel and rhododendron scrublands would correctly be
tagged as 'evergreen' despite unquestionably being broadleaved. On the
other hand, the tamaracks (Larix spp.) are correctly tagged as 'deciduous'
because they lose their needles every fall. The Eastern white pine (Pinus
strobus) doesn't conveniently fit the scheme, since its leaves sprout in
spring and typically last 18 months, with the previous year's needles being
shed by abscission every autumn. ('Evergreen' suits better than
'deciuduous', since satellite photography will show leaf cover year-round,
which is really where the classification originates.)

If you do come up with such a tagging scheme, expect some controversy about
whether cycads, tree ferns, or grasses such as bamboo, will be included
among the 'palm trees'. Taxonomically, that's wrong in so many ways, but
the popular eye sees them all as being similar - a bare trunk with a
cluster of fronds at the top. And mapping geeks love to argue about just
such fine points.



On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Rihards  wrote:

> On 2016.09.19. 18:13, Adam Old wrote:
>
>> Hello all, I am a fairly novice mapper, although I am learning quickly.
>> This is my first post to talk-us, so let me know if this is the wrong
>> place to ask these questions.
>>
>> I am currently sitting on a "Tree Board" in a small city in South
>> Florida. One mandate of the board is to survey the existing tree canopy
>> in an ongoing fashion and to provide recommendations for trimming,
>> removal, or new plantings, to note diseases and damage, and to collect
>> species information.
>>
>> I am a proponent of OpenStreetMap and crowdsourcing as much of the data
>> collection as possible, as we are without much of a budget or staff. But
>> I wonder whether this is an appropriate use for OSM, and if so, whether
>> there are caveats or special things we should be thinking of. One of the
>> other members of the board is an experienced GIS user, and he also likes
>> the idea of using OSM.
>>
>> For the most part we would like to send people out using their mobile
>> devices and an app like Go
>> Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/go-map!!/id592990211?mt=8 or a
>> paper survey form that we could then update OSM with. Hopefully this
>> would introduce a good number of new people to OSM as mappers and/or
>> users. We also were hoping to add some datapoints for the diameter_crown
>> and height using LiDAR and aerial data. Any suggestions on this?
>>
>> There is some information that isn't standard for Tag:natural=tree that
>> would be useful for us in this pursuit, for example whether the trees
>> are damaged, need trimming, date of last trimming, etc. Maybe that is
>> too specific to map and we shouldn't add that kind of data? If I were to
>> add it, would I simply add my own tags? I would like to do this right.
>>
>
> that information is a bit specific, as you mentioned - but if you would
> properly document how you are doing it, i think it would be an interesting
> proof of concept project, and there would be no significant harm with
> placing that data in osm.
> in the worst case (hopefully never happening :) ), if the data is
> abandoned, it should be easy to remove those tags for one city as being
> outdated and becoming useless.
>
> Also, is there a map view with diameter_crown displayed as the actual size?
>>
>> Also also, is there any thinking on differentiating between palm trees
>> and other broadleaved trees? Seems like a worthwhile distinction, here
>> in the tropics.
>>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree suggests tags like
> 'genus' and 'species' - those seem to cover your need well :)
>
> Thanks!
>>
> --
>  Rihards
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Municipal Tree Survey

[Rihards]

On 2016.09.19. 18:13, Adam Old wrote:

Hello all, I am a fairly novice mapper, although I am learning quickly.
This is my first post to talk-us, so let me know if this is the wrong
place to ask these questions.

I am currently sitting on a "Tree Board" in a small city in South
Florida. One mandate of the board is to survey the existing tree canopy
in an ongoing fashion and to provide recommendations for trimming,
removal, or new plantings, to note diseases and damage, and to collect
species information.

I am a proponent of OpenStreetMap and crowdsourcing as much of the data
collection as possible, as we are without much of a budget or staff. But
I wonder whether this is an appropriate use for OSM, and if so, whether
there are caveats or special things we should be thinking of. One of the
other members of the board is an experienced GIS user, and he also likes
the idea of using OSM.

For the most part we would like to send people out using their mobile
devices and an app like Go
Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/go-map!!/id592990211?mt=8 or a
paper survey form that we could then update OSM with. Hopefully this
would introduce a good number of new people to OSM as mappers and/or
users. We also were hoping to add some datapoints for the diameter_crown
and height using LiDAR and aerial data. Any suggestions on this?

There is some information that isn't standard for Tag:natural=tree that
would be useful for us in this pursuit, for example whether the trees
are damaged, need trimming, date of last trimming, etc. Maybe that is
too specific to map and we shouldn't add that kind of data? If I were to
add it, would I simply add my own tags? I would like to do this right.


that information is a bit specific, as you mentioned - but if you would 
properly document how you are doing it, i think it would be an 
interesting proof of concept project, and there would be no significant 
harm with placing that data in osm.
in the worst case (hopefully never happening :) ), if the data is 
abandoned, it should be easy to remove those tags for one city as being 
outdated and becoming useless.



Also, is there a map view with diameter_crown displayed as the actual size?

Also also, is there any thinking on differentiating between palm trees
and other broadleaved trees? Seems like a worthwhile distinction, here
in the tropics.


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree suggests tags like 
'genus' and 'species' - those seem to cover your need well :)



Thanks!

--
 Rihards

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[Talk-us] Municipal Tree Survey

[Adam Old]

Hello all, I am a fairly novice mapper, although I am learning quickly.
This is my first post to talk-us, so let me know if this is the wrong place
to ask these questions.

I am currently sitting on a "Tree Board" in a small city in South Florida.
One mandate of the board is to survey the existing tree canopy in an
ongoing fashion and to provide recommendations for trimming, removal, or
new plantings, to note diseases and damage, and to collect species
information.

I am a proponent of OpenStreetMap and crowdsourcing as much of the data
collection as possible, as we are without much of a budget or staff. But I
wonder whether this is an appropriate use for OSM, and if so, whether there
are caveats or special things we should be thinking of. One of the other
members of the board is an experienced GIS user, and he also likes the idea
of using OSM.

For the most part we would like to send people out using their mobile
devices and an app like Go Map!!
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/go-map!!/id592990211?mt=8 or a paper survey
form that we could then update OSM with. Hopefully this would introduce a
good number of new people to OSM as mappers and/or users. We also were
hoping to add some datapoints for the diameter_crown and height using LiDAR
and aerial data. Any suggestions on this?

There is some information that isn't standard for Tag:natural=tree that
would be useful for us in this pursuit, for example whether the trees are
damaged, need trimming, date of last trimming, etc. Maybe that is too
specific to map and we shouldn't add that kind of data? If I were to add
it, would I simply add my own tags? I would like to do this right.

Also, is there a map view with diameter_crown displayed as the actual size?

Also also, is there any thinking on differentiating between palm trees and
other broadleaved trees? Seems like a worthwhile distinction, here in the
tropics.

Thanks!
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