Rather than relying on references to the superiority of ethnicities and
other stereotypes in discussing the building of one's dance prowess:
The best method I have seen to teach women to follow (any dance), is to
simply ask them to close their eyes in partner work.
A. The lead and the move
Hi Igor:
The first video clip that you linked is mostly charleston with some
collegiate shag thrown in. The couple in the same fur coat are doing
collegiate shag. Others remarked that the couple moving around the
stage are doing Peabody. That's possible but it seems awfully slow for
Ron:
I second your observation on this trend. All dance, when it comes to
America, seems to not only gets transmogrified into something different,
it also gets turned into a competitive sport: if you view film footage
from the jazz dancers at the old Savoy in New York, it was all about
Igor,
for feminine substitute intimate.
Then it all makes sense.
Igor Polk wrote:
I was told that many men trying tango drop it because they think tango is
too feminine.
Some of my friends actually think that tango is very masculine, strong.
I believe these men who dropped could be the
Sorry, hit send before I added my suggestion. How about this:
demonstrating confidence = masculine
better posture = masculine
precise control of body and movement = masculine (ie, martial arts)
CRS
Igor Polk wrote:
I was told that many men trying tango drop it because they think tango is
too
Hey, sometimes our feet *are* sore and we really need to rest! Have you
ever worn tango shoes? ;)
This is a bigger problem in the tango world than in other dance styles,
because of the difference in customs. In other dances I can say to the
guy when I'm done resting, I'll come over and ask
With all due respect,
Group class structure almost always infers that there will be rotation.
Those are the expectations in every group class I have been in, in the
last decade I have been dancing. Rotation makes you a better dancer
because you don't end up 'memorizing' your regular
My mistake, I wasn't reading all the emails carefully enough. Sorry--
Astrid wrote:
I notice it's the men who are responding to this. Are we talking about
female taxi dancers, or male taxi dancers? Seems to me that it's the
women who are really stuck in BsAs, because the codes do not allow
OK, I wasn't gonna but I'm gonna jump in.
1.
There is a WORLD of difference between XYZ musicality class and ABC
musicality class.
Some people need 2 + 2 = 4 because they do not understand basic rhythm
and phrases in music. Don't mock that That's just mean, people.
They probably have
Furthermore the chan chan is also pervasive in many other types of
music, such as Afrocuban See, eg, Chan Chan by BVSC, which has
chan chan at the end of every phrase. So, conventional for certain
artists, no doubt -- but not unique to tango.
Bruno Afonso wrote:
The chan chan at the end
Interesting. I get to the same conclusion (boys weren't encouraged to
develop dance skills) but by a different explanation.
Huck Kennedy wrote:
Now let's get to the truth of the matter--any
advantage women have in dancing comes from their being
shunted off to dance class at an
Hi Steve,
we could get into an even-further off-topic discussion about
quote-unquote swing music (swing is a verb, not a noun. there is no
such thing as swing music -Paul Whiteman). It would sound exactly like
a spat about competing tango orchestra styling in the Golden Era.
Those of us
Too late Doug!
My nitpick to your nitpick to Steve's nitpick to my off-topic post is
that Prima was active in ALL eras and jazz genres from 20's to 70's.
Prima's versatility, sheer creative output and musical longevity are
directly comparable to Piazzola. (shameless attempt at topic
This dispute about the metaphors is really about two different
underlying issues: collaboration in partner dance, and respecting the
feelings of others.
Collaborative contributions to a tango
--
Some of us evidently think that the collaborative ratio of
How about saying to the follow, I have an injured shoulder, please try
not to use too much resistance with your right arm? Not everyone can
make this adjustment but some can/will.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have had prolonged bouts with bursitis in both shoulders, as well as
small tears in
Don't be makin so much fun of this. We had a salsa and swing night here
in the Detroit area which ran for 3+ years and the DJs played an
argentine tango set twice per evening.
As the club owner remarked: We love the tango music. That's when
everyone hits the bar to re-order.
(The night was
Another reluctant jumper-in, but I have practical experience as a
volunteer promoter that I think might be helpful.
We have the same problem locally with other dance styles and attracting
men -- perceived impression that dancers are all slick 'Dancing with the
Stars' material. To combat this,
YAMP (yet another milonga post)
Just as there are several flavors of tango there are several flavors of
milonga (my experience is US).
I originally learned milonga as a quickly moving and sassy dance that
travels over the floor. In close embrace the traspie and other rhythmic
'stops' and
These transgressions are not special to tango, they are no different
from ANY social dancing event. Same thing happens in ballroom and any
moving dance. If anything, more so in ballroom, and a lot of it
probably comes from ballroom, which can resemble an Indy 500 video game.
Someone let
I would agree I haven't heard triplets in tango, vals, milonga. I'm
sure the musicians on the list will chime in if they exist.
I think the confusion is being caused by the idea of one-two-three in
music based on four beats. This is the same as quick-quick-slow (where
the first three beats
FYI. About dancing and antiquated cabaret laws. We should all be
dancing tango in the streets! :)
THE NEW YORK TIMES
June 3, 2007
Op-Ed Contributor
Dance, Dance, Revolution
By BARBARA EHRENREICH
COMPARED with most of the issues that the venerable civil liberties
lawyer Norman Siegel takes
FYI. About dancing and antiquated cabaret laws. We should all be
dancing tango in the streets! :)
THE NEW YORK TIMES
June 3, 2007
Op-Ed Contributor
Dance, Dance, Revolution
By BARBARA EHRENREICH
COMPARED with most of the issues that the venerable civil liberties
lawyer Norman Siegel takes
...
To the secular opponents of public dancing, it is always a noxious
source of disorder and, in New Yorks case, noise. But hardly anyone
talks about what is lost when the music stops and the traditional venues
close. Facing what he saw as an epidemic of melancholy, or what we would
now call
Me, I can definitely distinguish triplets (3 against 2) in any music I
hear, but I have a lot of music training. I don't hear them in tango
music. I hear them in Afro-Cuban music all the time, and in Brazilian
samba drumlines (ie, percussion improvisation). But I don't hear them
in tango or
When you get to a certain level of dance where you are seeing a lot of
basic building blocks and patterns of steps over and over again, what
you get out of lessons is very different.
I am happy with any lesson, even a lesson teaching choreography, if I
take away just one important insight or
Bravo, Astrid. I have been having this problem for years and could not
exactly pinpoint why my lower back was in so much pain from dancing with
certain people. Thanks
CS
Astrid wrote:
Hmmm, I'm always trying to get further outside on my left especially when
in close embrace. Is this my
I don't have any problem with Miles doing what he did.
He had a large audience from this mailing list and he was notifying them
as he was receiving inquiries.
How does a catty personal slam from Christian Luthen about eventually
dancing tango relate to Miles's decision to stop writing a
I'd like to hear about why this happened as well.
It's not like Igor is *more* irascible than the average irascible person
on the list, he's warm and fuzzy in his own stubborn and highly
opinionated way.
(as are we all)
CS
Chris, UK wrote:
Forwarded from direct mail:
*Subject:* Igor Polk
Since we all hate the 8CB paso basico so much and feel it is a failed
teaching method that encourages the wrong kind of dancing and collisions
on the pista,
how do we all feel about the open frame 6CB (modified box step) that is
frequently taught for milonga?
I say it is a nice, simple figure
Interesting.
When I learned D8CB tango from Ray Hogan and Amy Calio in Detroit 10
years ago (open frame), after about 3-4 months, the next dance on the
agenda was milonga. Difficulty was very clearly presented as tango,
milonga, vals. We didn't even get to vals until level 3.
Milonga was
Maybe you mean that a front ocho figure is a good holding pattern? Or
did you mean that a front ocho or back ocho figure can also be over- or
under-rotated to realign the couple's direction, to navigate around a
couple that has stopped to execute some kind of non-progressing figure.
Also
I agree there is a lot of confusion between counts and positions in
the 8CB and that is partially what makes it so awful. For non-musically
trained and trained alike, it is very hard to dislodge the idea that the
8 represents 8 beats of music. I have often thought (coming from
ballet
Good question.
I have danced lindy hop on the opposite foot from partner for entire
stretches of a dance, but that's improvisational, it's not part of the
structure of the dance vocabulary. And it's certainly not a ballroom dance.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By cross-feet I meant crossed system
Just curious: is it also referred to as cross-system in those dances?
I have limited experience with professional ballroom instruction, and
in the lessons I've had, the instructor hasn't used the term.
Michael wrote:
Sounds like shadowing = mirroring.
Ordinarily lead and follow are not on the SAME foot (as in, they are
both on L, they are both on R). More typically, in a dance that
progresses, they are on opposite feet on the same side of the couple
facing each other (as in, lead is on L, follow is on R).
This is very interesting and finally tandas make sense.
We of course had taxi dancers and taxi dance halls here in the US from
the 20's to the 50's -- but the men got only one dance per ticket.
Sergio Vandekier wrote:
There was a time, very early in tango history (1880 - 1920) when tango was
Joe Grohens wrote:
There should be no such thing as an automatic cross.
Maybe not in TANGO®.
Automatic
would mean that the women just do a cross on their own as a memorized
pattern. That's wrong. Women do not dance on their own. They dance
with and in response to what the man is
If a man who dances repeat tandas with the same woman is a tango hog,
is the follow who dances repeat tandas while there are surplus follows
who are not dancing (indeed, many have not danced a single tanda all
night) also a tango hog?
When I brought this topic up about having a hard time
Trini, I disagree. I think the multiple-tanda woman is motivated by not
wanting to mess with a good thing. She looks around and sees surplus
women standing around not dancing every time she goes out, and she
thinks that could be me if I'm not careful, he wants to dance a lot
with me, I like
The airport taxi special tax is the rule in many US cities and in the
international capitals. Most international airports charge
non-airport-licensed taxis a pick-up ticket per fare (the upcharge at
Detroit Metro is $10 -- ie, adds $10 to the mileage fare). The
airport's own taxis are typically
All,
I'm so glad to see that list members are stepping up to say negative
things about Argentine Tango in the US and this apparently
overwhelmingly popular and positive event.
There was an appalling lack of negativity about this topic, and I see
that the tone of the list is now being
Thank you Chris, I feel so much better now, having been insulted by you
in an ad-hominem attack which has nothing to do with the subject of the
post.
Regards,
Chris, UK wrote:
Why are you people in the US so obsessed with classes?
Uhm..because we have seen what inbreeding in a small
Some time ago I transgressed. I received an email from the moderator
requiring me to apologize to the list, and not transgress again. I said
I would not post on the list again until I did so.
I am truly sorry for the discomfort that was caused to listmembers by my
posting, and for any
Rather than going back through that loop of passionate discussion on the
proper use of the words Argentine Tango
If we're talking about a fellow following or a lady leader (with a
partner of whatever gender) why not call that dance Ognat Enitnegra?
Then we'll all know what we're talking
Piazzolla is socially danceable, but only by dancers with a deep
knowledge of music and very high skill levels. I've seen a couple of
couples do it well.
You both have to have very high level lead and follow skills. You have
to be very familiar with the particular piece of music from
To me social dancing is, simply, any partner dance that is not
choreographed and/or for competition.
There are those who understand social dancing to customarily imply
dancing around with multiple partners in one evening. For some of
those, the intimacy of tango may be too much for more than
That last paragraph should say maybe because tango dancers are much
MORE likely to come into tango as their first dance rather than from
other ballroom experience where these are more frequently taught. Sorry--
Carol Shepherd wrote:
To me social dancing is, simply, any partner dance
Tom, you're just brilliant. You had me rolling on the floor laughing.
Until just now, I never understood exactly what I couldn't stand about
those early tango lessons. These moves are truly the opera bouffe of
the Tango Borg.
You reminded me of Milan Kundera's philosophy of kitsch (not just
I compare dance 'styles' to dialects of the same language.
Dance and language are similar in that they facilitate connection
between us. Dialects develop organically by the expressions of
community members cross-influencing others within the same community.
Dialects reflect a group's preferences
If you are a follow, this depends on the skills of the leader, and what's
appropriate for the music.
The orthodox answer would be to say that the feet should always be in rhythm,
but the lead should be choosing to fit figures to the phrases of melody. That
requires a medium to high
Alex,
I think Trini has good suggestions. I think that the comments would trend to
the negative and several will be very personal and poisonous. If you require
people to register with a name, as opposed to leaving anonymous comments, at
least they will have to put a public persona on their
I'm an attorney and I know two other attorneys who dance tango in the
Detroit/Ann Arbor area, but of all the local dancers I know, the percentage of
engineering/IT/sciences tango dancers has to be at least 75%.
Fran and John Verheul wrote:
...
So - what broadly speaking - is your occupation
A friend from the swing scene wants to move into dancing the Latin dances
(salsa, west coast) and also begin to learn Argentine tango.
So far he has been dancing in 'lindy sneakers' (i.e., Chucks or Vans with
chromed leather on the bottom). He wants to graduate to 'grownup dance shoes'
that
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