Tom - that was the Most welcome post. Big thanks.
Feelings. How nice to still get them here. Lots of residual good ones
hanging around this old place.
Hi, old guys!:-)
k
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Igor wrote: What style is this?
That is the stage (where exagerated movements are called for) style Pablo
Veron in 1999 (bet he wouldn't do that now) doing things he borrowed from
many people - but most particularly movements created by Copes and Pepito.
If it was a serious question, there's a se
My favourite of the older versions is sung by Oscar Alonzo. Not to be missed!
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It's easy to put oneself in a category, noticing that many other dancers are
not the same.
We could be new or experienced; like to dance close, or not; prefer nuevo or
not, etc.
Here is a category I am in: I don't REALLY enjoy dancing if there is no
conversation. By that I mean - both people expr
The truth could be said to be, I think, that Tango-L has been virtually
made comatose and put on virtual life-support by people who might be
well-meaning; who certainly are smart; but who do not exhibit personal
knowledge of having learned the cardinal rule of tango and life:
Be generous.
If you
I'm sorry (that's a Canadian for you, eh?), I wish to say:
Tango-L was once such a great, great thing. There are many people who met
somewhere and became life-long friends (even if they have never met in
person also) through it.
About 8 years ago, one chap was very rude and disruptive for his own
Last night, I said it seemed 90% of the people who have been killing
Tango-L are men.
A representative of the other 10% just declared herself with her post with
this title.
She can't understand my anger. Of course not. Look what she writes and how
she adds to the discourse.
Charles, she just gav
> I can write to Tango-L. You think?
If you do, I'm sure it would please a lot of people - although I can only
speak for myself. It's really interesting and informative to get a glimpse
or sense of actual people who are around and what things interest them.
You know, you'll see that there can b
It really seems so important to have an environment always existing where
someone looking in for the first time will just want to jump in -
"because" ... never having reservations come up because of reading - you
know.;-)
I ask with all sincerity for members to consider and then maybe agree
This morning (Wed), Lydia Henson goes under the knife on knee one.
I gather what she will endure is painful to recover from ... but it is to
fix what has been SO painful for a long time. And that being taken care
of, there will be the other knee next.!
Those of us who have been in her little
One of the reasons AT has always had a special pull for me is that it
demands one express oneself. How you feel at the moment, how you feel
about life and everything.
Seems to me that one's musicality will come to fore best when:
One is "lost" in the music;
One feels confident about self in the
Sorry - pushed send to fast.
Musicality is never going to come from the head. Gotta come out from the
body.
I can play drums, so I can move all my limbs and parts of my trunk
independently. This is a big part of my style.
For anyone feeling un-musical with no music playing background,
frustratio
> Ron wrote:
>>I understand you as saying musicality is expressed in your feet.
Well, that would be a pretty dumb thing to say.
I said it comes from feeling and the body and then named practically all
it's major parts.
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Those of you who have been around a while might understand why earlier I
wanted to make it clear that I had not said musicality was about the feet.
I was talking about weight (where it is is what your partner needs to
know); moving with the lower body and keeping the upper body clean and
clear for
Victor Bennetts wrote:
>I have heard it said in BsAs that a milonguero starts with hundreds of
steps and ends up with
>five, but they own those five steps.
ESO!!
For years now, when asked, I have told people that I "don't 'do'
anything." This is my way of encouraging men to stop "adding" things
Igor wrote:
>I do not like when "feelings" are a substitute for the quality of dance.
Now, ladies - I know you are dying to have a dance with someone with this
attitude, but - please - take a number. And be patient. A man who doesn't
respond to feelings is SO popular. You understand.
Igor: thi
Thanks, Pichi!
I've always had a fondness for D'Agostino/Vargas' milonga En Lo De Laura.
Neat to know what it inspired it and get a bit of flavour from the
article.
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Yes, a true lovely choreographed.
Now, the back-story on what it is missing:
Carlos Saura begged Maria Nieves to appear in this film, for he meant it
as a tribute to Copes and Nieves.
At the time, it was too soon after Juan dumped her to dance with his
daughter. She would have none of helping hi
Context.
Copes is known for being the first person to choreograph tango for
professional dancers on stage.
!
You could say he invented the nuevo tango of his time (early 50's). He
gave Piazzolla (and so many other -performers and theatrical artists) jobs
and a place. (http://ToTANGO.net/copes.ht
Thank you Christian for kindly letting us know.
I knew nothing about the man; never had communication with him. I wish I
had. How I wish.
As a tango dancer, I have felt gratitude and a debt to Remi for years ...
because as a dj I have had a dim awareness of his major contribution. But
as a sound
Forgive me - I want to clarify and expand.
I said the quality of the CD's sucked. That sounds negative and I regret
that inference because:
I love that Remi collected and published the great tango recordings like
no one had ever done - in chronological order, with recording dates etc.
Wow. (The r
I should like to web-publish a tribute to Remi.
My I ask for contributions - whether personal or not - of an informative
nature?
This guy affected us all. The ones who know it should speak-up.
Thank you
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Enjoyed reading Tom's take on things.
This really is a topic of great importance; having any sort of "true"
numbers would be of benefit to so many promoters.
Of course, we can't know very "true" numbers. But trying to get a "true"
grasp of "pretty true" would be useful. "Useful!";-)
I know i
Hi all;
Looking back on how my tastes in tango music have changed (a constant
rumination because of the dj and restoration interests), I realize the
biggest shift has been in how I react to the singers.
I thought - I'll bet others have been or will be going down the same road
I have. Especially o
Hi guys;
Forgive me for being self-conscious; seeing people talking about "Keith"
making harsh comments, I just wish to make sure you know it's not "This"
Keith. You know what I mean.
BTW, I was just caught in the domain renewal
companies-take-their-time-so-you-don't-exist-for-a-few-days thing li
Keith E. from Montreal here ...
It's easy to see comments come from people with fervently held views. As
they will be.
I do think people learn over time, as they get a deeper understanding of
everything, that the views they express in their enthusiasm and early
critical stages are not necessarily
All those intrigued with Floyd's curious teachings about how to dance
tango can see his demonstration of exactly what he means by viewing the
video he has on his website.
You will see it is quite possible to have your feet, your knees, your
hips, your chest, your arms, your shoulders and your head
Thanks for that clip pointer, Richard. Neat to see.
Mores was so brilliant. But how odd is it that his orchestrations kept the
bandoneon way in the background - even though he plays it?
Keith
ToTANGO.net
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http:
Floyd wrote:
> 'weight changes'... are not something that can be relied upon for a
lead. Weight changes by the
> follower must be led so the follower knows for sure.
Very clear.
Yikes!
I'm racking my memory, trying to recall if I've ever heard such nonsense.
Or so much of it from one source as
No one has said anything, but it might seem (at least I could understand
if it it was thought) that I was pretty strident in my post earlier today.
Since I pushed "send" on that one, I have been thinking it would have been
good if I had at least provided a tiny bit of background at least in
parent
Just between us list members, this current credibility of posters
insistently stuffing our mail day after day with air-head silliness made
me wonder what the deal was with another person who was recently
apparently banned from the list. Because one can look at him dancing on
videos, too.
Seeing so
Floyd wrote:
"Although I'd leave out milonga. :-)It's only danced to burn off
excess energy. I personally rest during milongas.., so I don't have
to rest during the Tangos that follow. :-)"
Thank goodness Floyd never ceases to share his wisdom and insight. Where
would we all be without i
It WAS given to us by the gods to bless our souls with joy and happiness.
But, it seems to me, the essence of milonga is not immediately devined by
the new lover of tango. Milonga is like tango itself; also like what an
interesting woman may do to an ardent gentleman admirer: kind of retreat
behin
It might have been useful if I had put the reminder in my post about
milonga that it in fact pre-dated what we know as tango. It is not a
"different" dance than tango - it is a parent of tango.
Teachers with great "wisdom" would be wise to know this before applying
for their certification, Mr. Flo
Man though I am, I shall dare to offer another way of thinking about it all.
There is a very good reason why many women decide to give leading a go: so
they don't have to sit all night.
Typically, there are more good women dancers than men. Most of the women I
have seen, in many cities, giving le
Interesting thing happened today after I sent my post.
I then went to run my Sunday afternoon milonga.
A bunch of people from an east-coast American city (who I knew because I
have dj-ed there) showed up ...
A few men who like to follow and a woman who likes to lead.
The role-reversal thing is
Following on Mario's link to the blogspot ...
I hadn't mentioned in my post (but have included it on my website) that
the women who lead I was referring to have a lot of experience and are
really good dancers.
This is different from a woman who has been dancing a short while deciding
she would li
Well, we have a perceptible divide.
It's been looming and growing for 4 years, more-or-less.
Hopefully, people on both sides are quite sensitive to the reasons and
implications.
But - there is a Problem.
Divides are not good things. Division separates and dilutes. We are seeing
the sad effects
"Maybe my friends Fabian, Gustavo and Chicho and some others would like to
show some leadership to their blithe disciples"?
Explain about respectfully dancing in the ronda and keeping to your own
space and not bumping and kicking - and all those good things?
_
Before Nuevo ever came around, some knowledge-challenged people decided
that was a good place to do their thing. If you don't know, that can seem
reasonable.
Of course, it's not that at all.
People in the ronda all-of-a-sudden found/find themselves being
blind-sided from bodies coming out of nowh
Gavito was, perhaps, the first in recent times to really slow down,
intensely freeze, time and be anti-flash/fast. He raised eyebrows. Maybe
he over-did it as time went by. But, it is certainly an approach that is a
good counter-balance to the frantic show style that inevitably gets copied
as "tang
Oh, dear.
Just received word that Osvaldo and Lorena have been robbed of their
documents. They've been on media in BA asking for their return (there was
no money in the bag), but to no avail.
They were to be in Miami in 2 days for the Festival. Now, that's
impossible. What a shame.
Roberto Reis
Sergio;
Por favor!
y gracias!!
:-)
Real tango is so beautiful
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I'm sharing a great song that is neat to hear without all the noise and
scratches it has come down to us with.
http://ToTANGO.net/ttindex.html
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So now, we have arrived at the place where one maintains one's
"credibility" on Tango-L and self-respect by ... never posting to Tango-L.
If no people show up, no one wants to go.
I am thankful that the gratuitous moronic postings have been screened-out
since my last cry for sanity.
I think a c
What times we live in, eh?
Best to have seat-belts fastened.
I've only been around tango for 20 years, so I'm a newbie. But my studies
and sense tell me that more has been changing in the last 15 years than
had been happening during the previous 4 decades.
We had the resurgence of tango which f
John and Cheryl Lowry and friends in Brisbane, Australia began this
charity work 9 years ago. They raise money in the tango world to make life
better for homeless children in Buenos Aires.
To me, it's such a great idea: have a milonga once a year in your city
donating the proceeds to this cause an
Of course whoever met Kely and Facundo over the years must have enjoyed
the two of them.
The personal charm and lovely way and ability to make people feel like
they could do it too has made a big mark because they travelled so much.
(I remember my times with them in much the same way I so fondly
I just received this email from Bs. As.:
"Shahrukh made a mistake on her name and age when he posted to Tango-L.
Would you please correct it?
Kely Lamdan turned 69 on December 24, 2008."
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The mail that is coming to me about Kely ...
I appreciate so much knowing anew how many fans she had around the world.
I want to be so careful ... in no way do I want to have anything I say
seem to be critical of anyone else. I am not.
PLEASE don't read the following as if it is.
But I would s
My reaction is this was a nice video to share.
And darned if I'm not prompted by it to make a comment or two; this
perhaps in particular relation to the recent threads about commenting on
teachers, etc. as well.
My own way of helping people move forward for years (in social tango) has
been to he
You know ... our personalities make us do things how we do them.
Every person on Earth should be given room and feel free to be/express
themselves, of course.
There are many who will be slightly different in performance than they
would be on a crowded dance floor.
I guess I decided a long time a
A very cool guy called Peter Bengsten made it and allowed me to put it on
my site. Bottom of the page.
http://ToTANGO.net
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I am sympathetic to lovely dancers who have talent and grace and skill.
I appreciate the tone of their comments.
I just wish they would add:
This is performance tango, or tango for a place where everybody is doing
nuevo and there is disregard for other dancers on the floor.
Please don't do this
sense is that what I describe is happening all around the world. It
might be a bit subterranean; but people who really love tango (not mainly
for business) are always going to move in this direction.
Go for it, guys! Build a local social scene, not a teaching business. Lots
of people will be cheering you on.
Cheers,
Keith Elshaw
ToTANGO.net
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Jack wrote:
"After all, Milonga only became part of the 'Tango Trinity' in the 1930s."
Uh - no.
Milonga pre-dated tango.
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> Milonga pre-dated tango.
>
> The milonga we dance nowadays [2 beats to the bar, fastish ,as in Milonga
> sentimental] only goes back to the 30's. The pre-dating one was a slow
> dirge played by the payadores towards the end on the 19th Century and
> hardly ever danced to. Piazzolla revived it in
It's true that, post-Piazzolla, a thinking has crept in that the music and
the dance are not the same thing.
This thinking and retro-view recitation does not make it so.
The dance and the music were integral. Always - until the 1950's.
The people who created it all didn't sit and listen to vals.
Yes, you may imagine me being slightly peeved when I see people doing
tango moves while trying to dance milonga.
I feel sorry for the women being pushed around to make something happen
that just isn't natural.
And I feel sorry for the men who just don't get it.
1-2/2-2
Is not at all the same as
I for one think Jack hit the nail smack on the head with his post.
What do they call it again when you stare at some words and they become,
through short contemplation, grotesque absurdities?
"What is tango" when asked by a tango dancer should get that person
banished to a milonga dj-ed by a pers
I'm a big fan of Sergio's postings. Can't help it.
In the last, which included all those videos, one jumped-out at me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXU9nojcFQo
In my heart of hearts, I wish more demonstration tango was shown this way.
They are doing a "show" - but it's tango-tango. Doing the
AJ wrote:
> Germany is by far the most removed of the influences.
Of course one understands what Al meant and I do not wish to quibble.
However ...
Herr Band's little "improvement" on his accordion, which became the pillar
and soul of the tango when it arrived in Argentina, ought to be a crucia
Nina's post was interesting to read. But, exasperating.
I hope other women (and men) don't believe it has currency.
I, of course, can only speak for myself. But I believe most men who can
dance tango reading her post would want - like me - to run grovelling to
every woman partner in the Universe
AJ:
> Tango would have been tango even on kazoo.
Gasp
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Need to record 5,000 tango, vals, milongas songs as a start toward making
Argentine tango music sound like it would if that bandoneon thingy had
stayed home in Germany and left us alone.
Dance experience not necessary, of course.
No need to have correct pitch, we can fix that in the mix.
TSPOER
I am in hearty agreement with the sentiment Shahrukh expresses.
My take from the production side of things:
This vexatious over-doing of singers can come mostly from either the
performer doesn't have sensitive hearing - so they shout for that
technical reason - or because they just haven't enough
Hello Friends;
Last night, I got to hug Tine Herreman because she is here in Montreal
working this
weekend. :-)
I hope I will see her for private time aside from last night when she
visited my milonga late.
Tonight and tomorrow I can go to where she will do her thing in different
milongas.
I
The long version of Beatriz's interesting portrait of the living legend -
with lyrics, translations (thanks Jake) and audio sample is now on
http://ToTANGO.net.
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This thread provokes me to say:
I read people I respect equally seemingly on one side or another of a
"divide." How can this be?
Well, fortunately, we all have our own relationships and/or opinions.
So we can see that there is no problem - other than semantics or
individual terms of reference, p
>I don't blame them, I blame the teachers ...
The key point.
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Over the last few years, I have been ruminating on these same thoughts and
perceptions.
Periodically, my concern has been quieted when I've had a conversation
about it with dancers in other places ... and they say they having been
feeling the same things.
Whew! It ain't just me.
I like it that e
So, I'm into tango for 20 years. I swear I'm starting to get it! ;-)
At least, I can't help but feeling things are being revealed. That's why
I'm always on my knees ... a lot going on that one such as me might never
get. Important to pay attention. I look up a lot to try to get it.
Chords
I invite you to make a cup of tea or coffee, sit back and listen to
Ignacio speak about his many projects including El Arranque and Escuela de
Tango and specifically the Tango Digital Archive Project and what lost
gems he is uncovering. It's in 3 parts.
>From his home in Buenos Aires, Ignacio says
Niata Rego was Juan Carlos Copes' first partner.
A great lady who was content to be totally unknown.
She is mourned in her passing by a great many.
A sweet recent picture and some of the story is on ToTANGO.net.
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If anyone cares to read some notes on the Miami Tango Fantasy:
http://ToTANGO.net
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>Just got this today in the email from a local (Argentinian by origin)
teacher:
>"A class to learn, review and polish the fundamental elements in Tango:
ochos, paradas, boleos, barridas, ganchos, amagues, giros, sacadas,
etc."
To me, this is all still teacher talk to make tango complicated so pe
I pressed "send" by mistake!
Walking, ochos, gyros. With the music.
So many people learn all the fancy stuff on top of that they they never
learn the real basics.
If the above three were all you knew and could do well, you could dance
all night with anybody in the world (except people who had be
Folks make good points based on what they know, who they are, and how they
feel. At this moment.
We're definitely not all going to be the same at the same time.
Hearts in the right place always should count, no matter what.
(If I may say)?
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> What do you think are the tango
> basics that should be learned,
> Keith? I'm not picking up anything about that at all
> from what you wrote
> above. A whole bunch of us have given our
> ideas, what are yours?
>
> Huck
Honestly, about 2 minutes after I pressed "send," I realized it
I don't think anything can replace the good eye and helpful advice of a
knowledgable teacher in person - but I don't know how anyone would not
acknowledge how interesting the fact of YouTube's existence is.
I made a video and placed it there for anyone interested in the old music
and dance footage
While it is tempting to think one's own views are the only ones which
matter or should be countenanced, this is rather a trap.
After-all, our views surely change as we grow in
understanding/perception/experience.
How we think "today" might not be how we think "tomorrow" when time has
gone by and
It is most important how you walk when you enter the room; when you go to
your table.
People judge how you might dance from how you walk.
Be graceful, deliberate, unhurried. Head-up and shoulders back.
It is a good idea to walk to the music that is playing. If it is a fast
beat, go half-time.
Thanks from me, too Sharuhk, for the music news especially! I envy you the
concerts you've just witnessed and appreciate reading your report.
Ignatio Varchausky is surely the great tango angel/producer of our age.
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Thank you SO much, Mr. Jobs!
In early 1984 I bought MacIntosh #000311. That was it for me; love at
first touch. Every time Mac grew, I bought the new model. Thinking back, I
realize I spent an awful lot of time full of glee showing friends what a
computer could REALLY do. For years. It can still h
Trini, I'm sure pretty much everybody has pondered the points you raise.
So many issues for the dj around Pugliese's recordings.
His 1950's-onward recordings are one thing and a different topic from the
40's recordings - which Must be heard and played for dancing.
It is true that the intensity of
(Hi Lois)!
This past weekend I did 3 milongas in Canmore, Alberta.
The organizer, Yves Mayrand, always has a back-up for everything.
His intention was to set-up his Bose system with 4 Tweeters and a
whoofer. It's software controlled, and fabulous.
But I suggested we test his bose boombox whic
FYI - Friends of the last remaining giant of the Golden Age are
appealing for small donations to help defray his nursing costs.
Sometimes now he is lucid, sometimes not.
A great Artist. No other singer sang with as many great orquestas.
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Tango-L was undeniably Very Important for years. I am one of the many
who appreciates today the friendships I made through Tango-L.
In a perfect world, would I like to see it find a new relevancy? Yes, of
course.
Is that possible? I personally don’t see why not – although apparently a
fresh m
I'm amazed I didn't think of it before!
If Shahrukh brings us all together for a weekend of partying OOPS -
brainstorming! - we could really have a fantastic time and re-invent the
wheel, surely. Heh, heh.
Everybody please press "like."
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"Shahrukh owns a restaurant in BA."
How interesting. Good to know. I too have used cooking and food as a way
to fill the gap left by a not-interesting tango scene that used to be
thrilling.
And the pitch for Shahrukh's "come to my place, old-timers" weekend just
got a LOT better!
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I never met Sergio in person but we struck up a real friendship via
email and I considered him generous and helpful to the tango community
by writing interesting pieces for my website.
I am very saddened by this news of his passing and send my condolences
to his friends. Thank you Sean and Trin
The ubiquitousness of FB notwithstanding, one marvels that people don't
realize that even if you ever just looked at it and did NOT join, you
are now being tracked from then on every minute you are on the web.
Every site you visit builds them your profile. So that when you arrive
on a site the
Steve wrote:
> Possibly the boy had heard some Tango music in a Mickey Mouse cartoon.
> I
> know I was exposed to a lot of other culture music in cartoons as a
> child.
This is the case.
I grew up in small-town Ontario with eyes and ears glued to the one
snowy TV station we could reliably ge
(This verges on a “commercial” post - which L rules allow once a year -
to share and present to those who’ve never heard).
In 2000 after more than 10 years of continually collecting all the tango
music I could find, and loving it and dancing and dj-ing and learning
with a passion, something un
A reader this week asked me for the interview I did with Ignacio and
then told me she thought people would benefit from hearing it now - and
told me Ignacio will be in Portland next month for the week-long
musican's intensive. Great news!
Download the entire interview at http://ToTANGO.net.
To
The old Tango-L brought people together in relationships that will last
long after it is gone. So how can you not love it for that?
Especially important to me are the friendships I made way outside my
geographic area. Like, the world!
L is responsible for my being able to now go to 7 Australian
... I just saw a post on the L!
Well then; happy to say hello and invite you to see ToTANGO - all new
for the 20th anniversary.
Yes, some of us have known each other that long now.
http://ToTANGO.net
All the Best,
Keith
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