Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hello Peter! On Sunday, December 21, 2003 at 4:14:26 AM you wrote: Just in opinion: there is no such thing as 'non public beta'. Private beat? Closed beta (circle)? Internal beta? How often did people on this list gripe about bugs, non-functionality, ordering [sic!] RITLabs to thoroughly test internally before opening their zoo's gates? Yes, without being overly scholastic, there is such thing as a non-public beta! -- Dierk Haasis The Bat 2.03.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600Service Pack 1 Todo, pero con manera (Everything, but with civility.). Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hello Martin, ...but if you have the exact filename in this directory you can download this file - so simple. OK, understand now. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v2.01.3 Winamp OFF: Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hi Martin, @21-Dec-2003, 06:55 +0100 (21-Dec 05:55 UK time) Martin Schoch [MS] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: It is black and white. Please refer to the TBBETA rules. It says *very clearly* that: MS Oh - I think there is still a little bit gray ;-) Didn't we have MS several times that RITlabs forgot to announce a new beta? ;-) Not any more. The RITlabs beta page now contains a list of all of the official releases and a summary of changes. Black and white is now supported with or without a post here :-). -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.03.10 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hallo Peter, So, there is some problem: - it's not on the beta download site there is a download site with listed beta files, look here http://beta.thebat.pl/ Miros -- BAT-MAIL.DE.VU - http://bat-mail.de.vu Minimal Design GLYPH - Original GLYPHs - Tools - Splash-Screens Mail-Server Adressen - Anleitungen - RSS NewsFeed - Links Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
On Sunday, December 21, 2003, at 4:14:26 AM, Peter Ouwehand sculpted a piece of raw silicon into the thoughts below: Appearantly it's not a beta version, otherwise it should be on the beta list. So either it's an alpha or something between alpha and beta. Now how are we gonna call that in the future??? An-Alpha-Beta. :] -- |\ /| \~~~/ \~~~/ | \/ | /\ \~/ ICQ# 3146019 || /__\ /___\ /_\ /___\IQ# 3.14159 Random Broken English: Queer Aids - name of Japanese chocolate bandaids Flyin' high with The Bat! v2.01.7 over the swamps of Windows 2000 5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hi Peter, @21-Dec-2003, 04:14 +0100 (21-Dec 03:14 UK time) Peter Ouwehand [PO] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: MDP ... They have been built for a single specific user with a MDP single specific problem to download to test a single specific MDP amendment. ... PO So, there is some problem: Problem? PO - it's not on the beta download site Correct. PO - but still, people can find / download that specific version Incorrect. PO - why? It is only visible publicly now because someone has indiscreetly shared a URL that should have remained private. PO - hence there are comments, what's wrong about that? What's wrong is that the comments I replied to show a misconception regarding the the way the software industry works WRT beta versions. I was trying to set the record straight. You have now taken the argument to another place it doesn't belong. PO Your comment is too simple. Not at all. It is *entirely* accurate. Your comments are trying to make an issue of something that is a non-issue. It is black and white. Please refer to the TBBETA rules. It says *very clearly* that: ,--/ From the rules of this list! \-- An officially released beta version is one which has been announced *by RITlabs* on the TBBETA list, usually with a list of changes. `--\ End /-- Period. End of argument. My too simple comment is no more, no less, than a rule enforcement. In future I shall do so with a trout flavoured accompaniment :-). PO If it's meant for some specific use / problem / user, ... which it is ... PO then it should not be available to the 'general' public / beta PO testers / at any site. It is not. It is on a private URL. It just so happens that RITLabs put all test software on the one BETA source directory. But that's an irrelevant coincidence. Unless they publish the URL to *you*, you should not download the version. PO Appearantly it's not a beta version, otherwise it should be on PO the beta list. Precisely the point I'm making. It shouldn't be mentioned here. PO So either it's an alpha or something between alpha and beta. Now PO how are we gonna call that in the future??? We are not going to call it anything in the future. Why? Because it's none of our business. It is not the remit of this list to discuss non-released beta or quasi-beta or alpha or pre-beta (whatever you or RITlabs want to call them) versions. Since we're not here to discuss them, we don't need to think up a name for them, do we. Anyway, I believe the term nonpublic betaversions, which are not finished and ready for testing is a contradictio in terminis. MDP Not at all. PO Just in opinion: there is no such thing as 'non public beta'. Perhaps that may be true elsewhere. Not in my world. I am a software developer too. Before I ship new beta versions to my beta team, we thrash the changes in-house to make sure there are no howlers. If I'm including a specific fix, I may pass a pre-release URL to the affected user. Once I know the fix is good, I'll release a public beta. This is all a part of the beta cycle of software. So, in my business model there certainly are builds of the software that can be classified as non-public beta. They are beta builds, not for public release. While I respect your right to hold an opinion, I fail to see any logic in it. Sorry. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.03.10 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hello Peter, On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:59:39 +0100 GMT (21/12/2003, 10:59 +0700 GMT), Peter Ouwehand wrote: TF I understand it isn't available if you browse the directory. You can TF download it when you have the direct link. I'm just a messenger. Don't shoot him/her. Yours was the last posting in the thread when I replied... and you offered all the arguments that I could get a hook on... so sorry, I didn't mean you (don't feel singled out... g). It is Luga who made the mistake of announcing that non-public URL, and maybe some users' mistake who downloaded that version. Obviously members on here are not mature enough. Why else do messages about 'non-public' alphas/betas end up here ?? Right. ;-) Yes, indeed, another password. Either protect the web-site or simply mail it to those who are concerned. I believe it was mailed by Ritlabs, but Luga chose to publish it. I bet he/she didn't ask Ritlabs first, either. But that's just my guess. TF I think this whole discussion here is moot. If a beta is not TF officially announced here by Ritlabs, don't download it. Easy as that. TF I won't, that's for sure. I think this was discussed here a year or TF two ago at length, Could be, I'm not on here that long. Do you expect me to dig through the TBBETA archive from 2 years ago? Nobody can expect that from you. It's in the list rules though, as Marck already pointed out. Anyway, it was good we talked about it. Now everyone is aware of it. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Never trust a dog to watch your food. - Patrick, age 10 Message reply created with The Bat! 2.02.3 CE under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hi Peter, @21-Dec-2003, 05:18 +0100 (21-Dec 04:18 UK time) Peter Ouwehand [PO] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: PO What I still don't understand, MDP, is: why you don't comment to PO the original poster that way, but you do comment to some PO indirect comment (just a messenger). I answer each post according to content. The original post of the URL was dealt with by others. No comment was necessary. I first responded to this thread when someone queried the practice of releasing non-public betas. My reply was on that issue. My reply to you was on the further issues that you raised in reply to me. All I have done was to answer the questions you asked or correct any mistaken impressions you may have had. PO (oh, something else to remember, you got the advantage being PO native English. I'm NOT, a lot on here are NOT) Of course. I always try to remember this. I understood what you were saying perfectly and sought only to clarify where your assumptions were not quite right. Anyway, we've gone on quite long enough on this side line and it has veered off topic. At least it has surfaced a clarification of the rules, and that's a good thing. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.03.10 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hi Marck On Sunday, December 21, 2003 4:50:40 AM you wrote: It is black and white. Please refer to the TBBETA rules. It says *very clearly* that: Oh - I think there is still a little bit gray ;-) Didn't we have several times that RITlabs forgot to announce a new beta? ;-) Have a nice day. -- Best regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] TheBat! 2.03.10 on Windows 2000 5 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hello Martin, On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 06:55:59 +0100 GMT (21/12/2003, 12:55 +0700 GMT), Martin Schoch wrote: Oh - I think there is still a little bit gray ;-) Didn't we have several times that RITlabs forgot to announce a new beta? ;-) That was in the past - and the rule is clear: if it is not announced by Ritlabs on this list, it does not concern us. No grey area at all. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Also, always avoid annoying alliteration. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.02.3 CE under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 2.03.16
Hello Thomas, On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 13:27:00 +0700 GMT (21/12/2003, 13:27 +0700 GMT), Thomas Fernandez wrote: Oh - I think there is still a little bit gray ;-) Didn't we have several times that RITlabs forgot to announce a new beta? ;-) That was in the past - and the rule is clear: if it is not announced by Ritlabs on this list, it does not concern us. No grey area at all. Forgot the smiley: ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. ...und wir gingen mit unserer Lehrerin im Park spazieren. Gegenueber dem Park war ein Haus, wo die Muetter ihre Kinder gebaeren. Eine Gebaermutter schaute aus dem Fenster und winkte uns freudig zu. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.02.3 CE under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
