Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
Alexander S. Kunz: IMHO, the settings for the Windows editor should be separated from Microed. If one chooses to hard-wrap messages at column 72 or whatever, TB should do so before sending to supply the same WYSIWYG principle of Microed. But if one chooses to use the flowed format (aka the way the Windows editor is working now), it should a) add the flowed headers to the outgoing message and b) not cause the false impression of wrapping by formatting the text while typing (but using the fill window width just as well). No. I don't want format flowed. I want at least one typing mode capable to automatically reformat paragraphs separated by *one* hit of my return key when I'm editing the message, *and* I want to send my messages with hard returns at the end of each line. A proper solution, IMO, would be like the one proposed by Bill McQuillan in the bug report page that you indicated. If you don't want to call such an editor a wysiwyg one anymore, so be it. For me, it is: what I /see/ is exactly what I'll get when I send the message. Is what I /code/ that's different, and only while I'm typing, but who cares? TB already has another what-you-/code/-is-what-you-get editor, so let's people out here get at least one Agent-like editor, among the three (!) that TB already has. This thing is a must for a mail client, a primary and elemetary feature. There are two reasons why I didn't give up long time ago with TB: (1) Ritlabs introduced the Windows-like editor and I still hope they'll make it work the way I hope, (2) I desperately need templates, macros and automations. If I didn't need (2) I would have uninstalled The Bat and forgotten Ritlabs the split moment I realized the way TB forces me to type. -- Luca - e-mail: p.stevens at libero.it Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
Hello Luca everyone else, on 25-Dez-2005 at 11:46 you (Luca) wrote: No. I don't want format flowed. I want at least one typing mode capable to automatically reformat paragraphs separated by *one* hit of my return key when I'm editing the message, *and* I want to send my messages with hard returns at the end of each line. *shrug* Then use MicroEd and turn on auto-formatting. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Please, Lord, let me prove that winning the lottery won't spoil me. Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
Alexander S. Kunz: on 25-Dez-2005 at 11:46 you (Luca) wrote: No. I don't want format flowed. I want at least one typing mode capable to automatically reformat paragraphs separated by *one* hit of my return key when I'm editing the message, *and* I want to send my messages with hard returns at the end of each line. *shrug* Then use MicroEd and turn on auto-formatting. Oh, please ... MicroEd can't do as above (and you know it :-) -- Luca - e-mail: p.stevens at libero.it Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
Hello Luca everyone else, on 25-Dez-2005 at 11:53 you (Luca) wrote: No. I don't want format flowed. I want at least one typing mode capable to automatically reformat paragraphs separated by *one* hit of my return key when I'm editing the message, *and* I want to send my messages with hard returns at the end of each line. *shrug* Then use MicroEd and turn on auto-formatting. Oh, please ... MicroEd can't do as above (and you know it :-) You can turn auto-formatting in MicroEd on off easily with CTRL+SHIFT+F and have almost what you need. It won't spare you from hitting return twice when you want to create a real paragraph, however. Because *paragraphs* are separated with an empty line usually. :-) There's always a certain point where automatisms fail. Microsoft Word is driving me insane frequently because of that. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it. -- Gene Spafford, 1992 Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
On 23/12/2005 at 2:04:01 PM [GMT -0500], Alexander S. Kunz wrote: I'm not sure but from my POV it is correct that there are no hard linebreaks in these messages. However, TB doesn't add the correct Content-Type header for this type of messages (from which the recipients MUA can determine that it should wrap the lines accordingly). Content-Type: text/plain; charset=whatever; format=flowed; delsp=yes As to that RFC, I don't see the logic in introducing it when clients aren't ready for it. I've yet to come across a supporting client, whose viewer works well with it. With ThunderBird and Mulberry that both support it, all that format flowed option does is convert what's nicely flowed text to 72 characters to streams of text that window wrap. So yes, it unravels the text for the recipient to wrap at their own length, but then, there's no mechanism for the user to wrap except the window margin which isn't always useful. This is why most text editors/viewers will offer a line wrapping mode for viewing at a specific character limit. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.64.01 Christmas Edition / http://specs.aimlink.name PGPKey: http://rsakey.aimlink.name ...Folks who think they know it all bug those of us who do Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
Hello Curtis everyone else, on 25-Dez-2005 at 13:23 you (Curtis) wrote: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=whatever; format=flowed; delsp=yes As to that RFC, I don't see the logic in introducing it when clients aren't ready for it. Then the whole RFC would be questionable. :-) A lot of clients make terrible mistakes or don't follow the RFCs very much. Its about time that the flowed format becomes reality IMHO, and if TB is one of the few clients that supports it propperly, it would be nice. I've yet to come across a supporting client, whose viewer works well with it. Opera's M2 does support it quite well (IMHO). there's no mechanism for the user to wrap except the window margin which isn't always useful. This is why most text editors/viewers will offer a line wrapping mode for viewing at a specific character limit. Yes, the viewer should support wrapping at a user specified column of course, not only at the window border. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time - I think I've forgotten this before. -- Stephen Wright Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
On 25/12/2005 at 10:49:53 AM [GMT -0500], Alexander S. Kunz wrote: Its about time that the flowed format becomes reality IMHO, and if TB is one of the few clients that supports it propperly, it would be nice. It's an excellent concept that would make all happy, if the clients supported it well across the board. I've yet to come across a supporting client, whose viewer works well with it. Opera's M2 does support it quite well (IMHO). Never really used that one. :) there's no mechanism for the user to wrap except the window margin which isn't always useful. This is why most text editors/viewers will offer a line wrapping mode for viewing at a specific character limit. Yes, the viewer should support wrapping at a user specified column of course, not only at the window border. This is imperative to the format=flowed system working well. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.64.01 Christmas Edition / http://specs.aimlink.name PGPKey: http://rsakey.aimlink.name ...Individualists of the world, UNITE! Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat won't start
Hello Kitty, am Samstag, 24. Dezember 2005 um 22:19 schriebst du: So to restore the old mail I copied over my attachments folder and mail folder that I kept a copy of. TB now hangs and won't run. So the problem clearly relates to the old mail folders. I had the same trouble here when the new V.3x was out. TB refused to work, caused cascading AVs and froze my computer. It only could be finished by Taskmanager, meanwhile it consumed 99% of the system resources. It took quite a while to get rid of the problem. In my case the folder maintenance didn't find anything to repair, but obviously something was wrong. I finally figured out that it was a big mail attachment I received via TB's function split mail if size is above xxx -it could not be displayed correctly and at startup TB caused the crash by trying to load the folder. That was a mean mistake, because it takes a started bat to delete the culprit. I took a good old working bat version (2.xsomewhat) and deleted the entire folder. After some restarts of my machine, TB wanted to take off again. It was hard work, however, to get the folder structure back. Good luck! -- Viele Grüße Charlene Ferrara mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
Alexander S. Kunz: on 25-Dez-2005 at 11:53 you (Luca) wrote: No. I don't want format flowed. I want at least one typing mode capable to automatically reformat paragraphs separated by *one* hit of my return key when I'm editing the message, *and* I want to send my messages with hard returns at the end of each line. You can turn auto-formatting in MicroEd on off easily with CTRL+SHIFT+F and have almost what you need. It won't spare you from hitting return twice when you want to create a real paragraph, however. Since you insist, let's switch position, for a moment. You said: |If one chooses to hard-wrap messages at column 72 or whatever, TB should do |so before sending to supply the same WYSIWYG principle of Microed. | |But if one chooses to use the flowed format (aka the way the Windows |editor is working now), it should a) add the flowed headers to the |outgoing message and b) not cause the false impression of wrapping by |formatting the text while typing (but using the fill window width just as |well). So you want the Windows-like editor to be able (1) to send format-flowed messages or (2) to send hard-wrapped lines, other possible modes being excluded. Well, why don't you leave the Windows-like editor alone for other people's needings and do what you like using MicroEd? You can easily obtain (1) simply by setting text wrapping at a very high value (maximum is 32 thousand characters, it should be enough) and inserting format-flowed headers. See? There is no need to cripple down the Winlike editor to correctly obtain format-flowed. Oh, yes, reading your one-line paragraphs in your editor window would require a little effort with your scroll bar, but ... well, there's always a certain point where automatisms fail, don't you agree? Because *paragraphs* are separated with an empty line usually. :-) Usually, paragraphs are separated with one return and, possibly, an indent. You can *choose* to insert empty lines in email to improve readability, but you should never be forced to use them to make a not-smart-enough editor capable to perform autoformatting tasks. -- Luca - e-mail: p.stevens at libero.it Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Line wrapping in plain text (Windows) editor
Hello Luca everyone else, on 25-Dez-2005 at 18:33 you (Luca) wrote: Since you insist No, I do not insist. I tried to help by providing a workaround for the problem you have. So you want the Windows-like editor [...] I think we have a little bit of a misunderstanding here. I don't *want* anything. I'm happy with MicroEd the way it is. All I'm saying is that *if* the WinEd continues to behave like it does (currently), format-flowed should be implemented correctly. And I only say that *because* the way WinEd behaves now is closer to it than MicroEd, thats all. I just tried to explain whats going on behind the scenes. And WinEd is simply much more wordprocessor like than MicroEd is. You can formulate your own wishes for an editor the way you would like to have it into a wish on the Ritlabs bug tracker page. Because *paragraphs* are separated with an empty line usually. :-) Usually, paragraphs are separated with one return and, possibly, an indent. In some regions of the world, that may be true. I don't know. I assume we're still talking about email :-) and for emails, an empty line is used as the established standard (its a bit of a historical thing from the days of the crude old textbased 80x25 terminals). Because email editors and word processors were really two very different worlds in the past. Only a correct implementation of format-flowed (as in any word processor) will allow true paragraph formatting with user-definable spacing before and/or after paragraphs for email like in a word processor. And just to make it clear: I really don't mind which of TBs editors could possibly maybe :-) create correct output. I'm just pro format-flowed. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You're crazy! -- Drillers who Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project to drill for oil in 1859. Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Roguemoticons only good if others use the bat?
Hello friends, If I use Roguemoticons, it wouldnt be of much use other than with other bat users. Is that a correct assumption? -- Darrin Using The Bat! v3.64.01 Christmas Edition on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Roguemoticons only good if others use the bat?
Howdy Darrin, Monday, December 26, 2005, 7:13:10 AM, Darrin wrotened: Darrin Hello friends, Darrin If I use Roguemoticons, it wouldnt be of much use other than with Darrin other bat users. Is that a correct assumption? Frankly yes. But then we are the only beautiful mail users. So perhaps you should be thankful for that. Basically I don't know of another mail program with that functionallity. -- Have Fun, Stan the Almighty! [EMAIL PROTECTED] crashing The Bat! v3.64.01 Christmas Edition falling out of mid air with Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.70GHz 598 MHz 1.00GB RAM Someone once told me that love makes the world go 'round. Well, I just had to laugh in their face because, c'mon, everyone knows that what makes the world go 'round is a mutant gerbil on a treadmill. Current version is 3.64.01 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
