Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?
Hi Everyone, It's solved, I found a way of commenting out enough of the information at a higher level in Survex to allow Therion to take a .3d file with the right amount of information that it can cope with. This means that the UTM30N data was running through Survex (for MarniosaOld) and this was the same cs that I was using for the Silvestre Data. I'm sure I could use the Calibrate function, just as a case in point if you would like me to run it again with the limited .3d dataset to prove its use? thanks for all the help, as a reward I've got a lovely KML file. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xIOHqp5ypJOUda_AZzf-ypYqArseJsAZ=sharing I'll need to tidy up the survey, as the KML is not coming out correctly. we've got a few things to solve when we return next year. but it adds to the fun. Regards, Alastair Gott. alastairg...@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380, From: Therion on behalf of Wookey via Therion Sent: 14 November 2018 22:59 To: Andrew Atkinson via Therion Cc: Wookey Subject: Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy? On 2018-11-14 20:36 +, Olly Betts via Therion wrote: > On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 07:07:50PM +, Andrew Atkinson via Therion wrote: > > I've not had time to play with this, since Alistair showed me the problem > > on the weekend. The bit that I cannot get my head round is when 3d are > > imported with a coordinate system, if a th centreline then connects 2 parts > > of the survey from the 3d or an entrance coordinate is specified for the > > 3d, how does this change, or can it change the coordinates of the data from > > the 3d as the stations from this already has coordinates with little > > information about the connections [I hope that makes sense] > > Survex .3d files record the coordinate system the data is in, if one was > specified. This was added in Survex 1.2.14 (released 2014-07-05). Right, and that is metadata saying, effectively, 'the numbers in this file should be considered to be in a co-ordinate system starting at X,Y on the planet, oriented this way'. > But looking at the therion source code, it appears therion never makes > use of this information. I suspect therion just hasn't been updated for > Survex gaining coordinate system support. > > You can specify the coordinate system as an option to therion's import > command, so for now I guess that's what you have to do. Right, but (if I understand this correctly), that option does not change the numbers in the file. They must be valid for the cordinate system given in the import command. This info effectively says where the origin for the co-ordinates in the file are to be interpreted-as (and stuff about axis angles). So let's say that your survex data was processed in 'local' co-ordinates so it just starts from 0,0 in arbitrary 'nowhere' co-ordinates. What Alistair wants to do is read that in, but use it with therion data that is in real-world co-ordinates (UTM30N). The question is, can that be offset by some arbitrary number on reading-in so that it appears in the right place in the UTM30 co-ordinate system? Is a rotation needed too? Adding a rune to the line saying 'this is already in UTM30' will not have the desired effect, because data in UTM30 doesn't necessarily start from 0,0, and even if it did, his survey presumably needs to be at some other co-ord withint that space. The import -calibrate x y z X Y Z command looks like it should do the right thing, so long as the axes are aligned, by shifting from x y z to X Y Z. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwookware.org%2Fdata=02%7C01%7C%7C670640a1c1ed4a4e7bcd08d64a84fa34%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636778332323125751sdata=nhNLhLsOQtUspK5BJMEYGjHCEXwPTIHWFA60VHl4L3Q%3Dreserved=0 ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?
On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 10:59:44PM +, Wookey via Therion wrote: > On 2018-11-14 20:36 +, Olly Betts via Therion wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 07:07:50PM +, Andrew Atkinson via Therion wrote: > > > I've not had time to play with this, since Alistair showed me the problem > > > on the weekend. The bit that I cannot get my head round is when 3d are > > > imported with a coordinate system, if a th centreline then connects 2 > > > parts > > > of the survey from the 3d or an entrance coordinate is specified for the > > > 3d, how does this change, or can it change the coordinates of the data > > > from > > > the 3d as the stations from this already has coordinates with little > > > information about the connections [I hope that makes sense] > > > > Survex .3d files record the coordinate system the data is in, if one was > > specified. This was added in Survex 1.2.14 (released 2014-07-05). > > Right, and that is metadata saying, effectively, 'the numbers in this > file should be considered to be in a co-ordinate system starting at > X,Y on the planet, oriented this way'. That's a bit oversimplified, but gives the right idea. > > But looking at the therion source code, it appears therion never makes > > use of this information. I suspect therion just hasn't been updated for > > Survex gaining coordinate system support. > > > > You can specify the coordinate system as an option to therion's import > > command, so for now I guess that's what you have to do. > > Right, but (if I understand this correctly), that option does not > change the numbers in the file. They must be valid for the cordinate > system given in the import command. This info effectively says where > the origin for the co-ordinates in the file are to be interpreted-as > (and stuff about axis angles). > So let's say that your survex data was processed in 'local' co-ordinates > so it just starts from 0,0 in arbitrary 'nowhere' co-ordinates. > > What Alistair wants to do is read that in, but use it with therion > data that is in real-world co-ordinates (UTM30N). > > The question is, can that be offset by some arbitrary number on > reading-in so that it appears in the right place in the UTM30 > co-ordinate system? Is a rotation needed too? I'd interpreted what Alistair had said as meaning he was specifying the coordinate systems in his Survex data, but re-reading I think you may be right that his data is currently just in arbitrary "local" coordinates. I don't think there's a way to retrofit a coordinate system to processed data in arbitrary local coordinates. Theoretically it could probably be done, though if there are multiple fixed points then you'd probably have to redo the loop closure to make it fit properly (because space isn't exactly the same shape in different coordinate systems - it's not just a translation and a rotation). > The import -calibrate x y z X Y Z command looks like it should do the > right thing, so long as the axes are aligned, by shifting from x y z > to X Y Z. Adding on a fixed offset isn't going to correctly map you between most pairs of coordinate systems though, so in general that's a bodge. It may sometimes be good enough given the errors in cave survey measurements, but it seems simpler to just specify the coordinate systems and fixed stations in the Survex data with "*cs" and "*fix", and reprocess (and with current therion, also tell it what coordinate system you used in "*cs out" in the Survex data). Cheers, Olly ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?
On 2018-11-14 20:36 +, Olly Betts via Therion wrote: > On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 07:07:50PM +, Andrew Atkinson via Therion wrote: > > I've not had time to play with this, since Alistair showed me the problem > > on the weekend. The bit that I cannot get my head round is when 3d are > > imported with a coordinate system, if a th centreline then connects 2 parts > > of the survey from the 3d or an entrance coordinate is specified for the > > 3d, how does this change, or can it change the coordinates of the data from > > the 3d as the stations from this already has coordinates with little > > information about the connections [I hope that makes sense] > > Survex .3d files record the coordinate system the data is in, if one was > specified. This was added in Survex 1.2.14 (released 2014-07-05). Right, and that is metadata saying, effectively, 'the numbers in this file should be considered to be in a co-ordinate system starting at X,Y on the planet, oriented this way'. > But looking at the therion source code, it appears therion never makes > use of this information. I suspect therion just hasn't been updated for > Survex gaining coordinate system support. > > You can specify the coordinate system as an option to therion's import > command, so for now I guess that's what you have to do. Right, but (if I understand this correctly), that option does not change the numbers in the file. They must be valid for the cordinate system given in the import command. This info effectively says where the origin for the co-ordinates in the file are to be interpreted-as (and stuff about axis angles). So let's say that your survex data was processed in 'local' co-ordinates so it just starts from 0,0 in arbitrary 'nowhere' co-ordinates. What Alistair wants to do is read that in, but use it with therion data that is in real-world co-ordinates (UTM30N). The question is, can that be offset by some arbitrary number on reading-in so that it appears in the right place in the UTM30 co-ordinate system? Is a rotation needed too? Adding a rune to the line saying 'this is already in UTM30' will not have the desired effect, because data in UTM30 doesn't necessarily start from 0,0, and even if it did, his survey presumably needs to be at some other co-ord withint that space. The import -calibrate x y z X Y Z command looks like it should do the right thing, so long as the axes are aligned, by shifting from x y z to X Y Z. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?
On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 07:07:50PM +, Andrew Atkinson via Therion wrote: > I've not had time to play with this, since Alistair showed me the problem > on the weekend. The bit that I cannot get my head round is when 3d are > imported with a coordinate system, if a th centreline then connects 2 parts > of the survey from the 3d or an entrance coordinate is specified for the > 3d, how does this change, or can it change the coordinates of the data from > the 3d as the stations from this already has coordinates with little > information about the connections [I hope that makes sense] Survex .3d files record the coordinate system the data is in, if one was specified. This was added in Survex 1.2.14 (released 2014-07-05). But looking at the therion source code, it appears therion never makes use of this information. I suspect therion just hasn't been updated for Survex gaining coordinate system support. You can specify the coordinate system as an option to therion's import command, so for now I guess that's what you have to do. Cheers, Olly ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?
I've not had time to play with this, since Alistair showed me the problem on the weekend. The bit that I cannot get my head round is when 3d are imported with a coordinate system, if a th centreline then connects 2 parts of the survey from the 3d or an entrance coordinate is specified for the 3d, how does this change, or can it change the coordinates of the data from the 3d as the stations from this already has coordinates with little information about the connections [I hope that makes sense] Andrew On Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 18:45 Bruce Mutton via Therion Not sure I understand you situation properly. And I have no experience > using .3d files as input. > > However, in general... > > If you have multiple surveys, each with a different (but not arbitrary) > coordinate system set, then there should be no problem if you identify the > coordinate system in each low level (survey trip) survey. Each one can be > different. ie cs lat-long in one, cs EPSG:27200 in another, and cs > EPSG:2193 in another. On occasion I specify multiple cs in each input file. > > Then you can specify the output coordinate system in the thconfig file. > If more than one is specified in the thconfig, then only the last one is > used. Ie all outputs must share the same cs. > > Looking at the wiki and Therion Book, I am not sure that the input side of > this problem is well documented. > > Bruce > > -Original Message- > HI, > > I was trying to join a file [with Centreline driven by .3d data (.3d)] to > another file [with centreline driven by my electronic surveying data > (Elec)]. > > The .3d file seems to come with it's own coordinate system, so we needed > to remove(#) the entrance coordinates, from the Elec data. > > I have joined these two surveys in a .th file and successfully got an > output. There are two entrances to the system. > > So my question is, can I add back coordinate data for one (or more) > Entrance(s) at the last level of the survey hierarchy? or will the mismatch > between .3d and Elec prevent me from doing this? > > > Regards, > Alastair Gott. > > alastairg...@hotmail.com, > M: 07931779380, > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?
Not sure I understand you situation properly. And I have no experience using .3d files as input. However, in general... If you have multiple surveys, each with a different (but not arbitrary) coordinate system set, then there should be no problem if you identify the coordinate system in each low level (survey trip) survey. Each one can be different. ie cs lat-long in one, cs EPSG:27200 in another, and cs EPSG:2193 in another. On occasion I specify multiple cs in each input file. Then you can specify the output coordinate system in the thconfig file. If more than one is specified in the thconfig, then only the last one is used. Ie all outputs must share the same cs. Looking at the wiki and Therion Book, I am not sure that the input side of this problem is well documented. Bruce -Original Message- HI, I was trying to join a file [with Centreline driven by .3d data (.3d)] to another file [with centreline driven by my electronic surveying data (Elec)]. The .3d file seems to come with it's own coordinate system, so we needed to remove(#) the entrance coordinates, from the Elec data. I have joined these two surveys in a .th file and successfully got an output. There are two entrances to the system. So my question is, can I add back coordinate data for one (or more) Entrance(s) at the last level of the survey hierarchy? or will the mismatch between .3d and Elec prevent me from doing this? Regards, Alastair Gott. alastairg...@hotmail.com, M: 07931779380, ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Add Coordinate data back at last level of Survey Hierarchy?
No, as far as the data are in different centerlines. Odesláno z iPhonu 13. 11. 2018 v 12:10, alastair gott via Therion : > HI, > > I was trying to join a file [with Centreline driven by .3d data (.3d)] to > another file [with centreline driven by my electronic surveying data (Elec)]. > > The .3d file seems to come with it's own coordinate system, so we needed to > remove(#) the entrance coordinates, from the Elec data. > > I have joined these two surveys in a .th file and successfully got an output. > There are two entrances to the system. > > So my question is, can I add back coordinate data for one (or more) > Entrance(s) at the last level of the survey hierarchy? or will the mismatch > between .3d and Elec prevent me from doing this? > > > Regards, > Alastair Gott. > > alastairg...@hotmail.com, > M: 07931779380, > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
