date:20190115

Very cool, I'll dig through it when I get a chance.  It's always
interesting to see how different people solve similar problems.

thanks,
Greg

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 12:53 PM Dave  wrote:

> I'll attach the file here.
>
> Note: this is an adaptation of an ancient bash file for a "file per todo
> system" I used to use, and I honestly am not totally sure of the logic of
> everything in it.
>
> The only comment I added now was the one about the date format for TW.
>
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[tw5] Re: Quinoid

2019-01-15 Thread BurningTreeC


>
> Did you have a link for the aTW repository BTC? Collaboration might be a 
> wonderful thing! Two heads (or more) are better than one etc!


Sure thing!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/TiddlyWiki/hQ-D0x5Z77c/UgwSHHihEgAJ 

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[tw5] Re: Quinoid

2019-01-15 Thread Watt

Did you have a link for the aTW repository BTC? Collaboration might be a 
wonderful thing! Two heads (or more) are better than one etc!

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[tw5] Re: Quinoid

2019-01-15 Thread BurningTreeC


>
> It's two approaches. With aTW, you need import because otherwise you can't 
> update anything. With AndTidWiki etc, you can import/export from your 
> desktop and save back to your device.
>

Hi Mark, congratulations to this very nice app!

At this point I'd like to say that aTW doesn't use a different approach 
than Quinoid ;)
What you mean with your statement about import is not clear to me, wikies 
are just added to the list from wherever they are on the ext. storage and 
can then be edited.
Also the import/export from desktop to device is not different to what you 
describe
You maybe mean the first raw versions (TWApp ...), but aTW is more 
advanced, have a look if you're interested :) !

The aTW repository is open for everyone interested to contribute
 

all the best, BTC

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[tw5] Re: Quinoid

It's two approaches. With aTW, you need import because otherwise you can't 
update anything. With AndTidWiki etc, you can import/export from your 
desktop and save back to your device.

I can see adding import if people have already found it useful.

Re reports, at the moment, for saving I'm interested in:

* Were you saving to internal or external drive?
* What version of Android?
* Did you set the permissions in the application settings?
* Did you get request dialogs for permissions?
* Any error messages?
* For Google Drive, I will want to know if you set the file to be 
persistent/local (if memory serves, some files in GDrive are on the web). 
Unless a file has been pinned, I don't think anyone can alter it.

Thanks everyone!

-- Mark
On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 11:34:02 AM UTC-8, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S. & Ton
>
> I tried Quinoid and aTW on Android 8.0.0 on IMPORT & found aTW can import 
> & I could not get Quinoid to. Like Ton.
>
> Import is useful for customising a wiki, especially for mobile friendly 
> themes.
>
> My concern here is its all getting a bit complex early. In giving feedback 
> I'm not sure I'm usefully precise enough. What I mean is I'm very unclear 
> what is due to Android version; TW version; something else?
>
> Just tentative comments
> Josiah
>
> Ton Gerner wrote:
>>
>> Just a practical case: when I tried BurningTree's Android app which can 
>> start with an empty TW (on your wish list as well?). The first thing I did 
>> was importing a mobile theme.
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Scrivener and Tiddlywiki

I'll attach the file here.

Note: this is an adaptation of an ancient bash file for a "file per todo 
system" I used to use, and I honestly am not totally sure of the logic of 
everything in it.

The only comment I added now was the one about the date format for TW.

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#! /bin/bash
#script to quicklywrite down a note & save to a text file using first line as title, by Dave Parker
# /home/david/Dropbox/scripts/yad/newNote.sh

PARG=$@
[[ $PARG = "" ]] && PARG=""
cr="
"
[[ $PARG == ..* ]] && PARG2="${cr}${PARG}"
[[ $PARG == ..* ]] && PARG=$PARG2
echo """$PARG""" > /tmp/testnotes2.txt
echo "" > /tmp/duedate.txt

filepath="/home/david/SyncthingFolders/Bob/TiddlyWiki5/Wikis/BobWiki/tiddlers/"
filepath2="/home/david/SyncthingFolders/Bob/TiddlyWiki5/Wikis/BobWiki/"
if [ ! -d "$filepath" ]; then 
echo no plug-in path here
filepath="/home/david/SyncthingFolders/Bob/IndexWiki/tiddlers/"
filepath2="/home/david/SyncthingFolders/Bob/IndexWiki/"
fi
scriptpath="/home/david/Dropbox/scripts/"
if [ ! -d "$scriptpath" ]; then 
echo no dropbox path here
scriptpath="/home/david/SyncthingFolders/allScripts/"
fi



date=`date "+%Y%0m%0d"`
longdate=`date -u "+%Y%m%d%H%M%5N"`; # <-- this is important for getting the TW date format right
marker=""
yad --text="new note" --timeout=1 &

${scriptpath}bash/bringAbove.sh "NewTiddler" "home" & 
echo $PARG | yad --text-info --show-uri --back=#456787 --fore=white --always-print-result --width=600 --height=500 --center --wrap --name="NewTiddler" --window-icon="text-editor" --title=$"NewTiddler" --button="gtk-save:0" --button="gtk-open:2" --button="gtk-close:1" --editable --filename=/tmp/testnotes2.txt > /tmp/testnotes.txt

marker=`echo $?`
cat /tmp/testnotes.txt > /tmp/append.txt

echo the marker is $marker
if [[ $marker -eq 0 ]]
then

#get first line of file for name
firstline=`head -1 /tmp/testnotes.txt`
firstline2=`echo $firstline | awk '{gsub(/:/,".");print}'`

#put name onto path of where you store your notes
fullname="${filepath}$firstline2.tid" && ENAME="[[$firstline]]"
if [ -e """$fullname""" ]
then
echo "$cr--$date : $cr" > /tmp/append.txt
cat /tmp/testnotes.txt >> /tmp/append.txt

fi

cat /tmp/append.txt >> """$fullname"""	
echo where? : """$fullname"""	

fi 

#get the word "title:" added to the beginning of first line
sed -i '1s/^/title: /' """$fullname"""	

#add due date if it exists
FILE=/tmp/duedate.txt
if grep -q due "$FILE"; then myduedate=$(cat /tmp/duedate.txt); sed -i "1i${myduedate}" """$fullname""";fi
sleep 1
sed -i "1icreated: ${longdate}" """$fullname"""
sleep 1
sed -i "1imodified: ${longdate}" """$fullname"""



if [[ $marker -eq 2 ]]
then
#wmctrl -k on
mousepad """$fullname""" || gedit """$fullname"""
sleep 1
wmctrl -a """$fullname""" && xdotool search """$fullname""" windowactivate &

wmctrl -r :"""$fullname""" -b remove,maximized_vert; wmctrl -r """$fullname""" -b remove,maximized_horz; wmctrl -r """$fullname""" -e 0,700,240,400,400
bash ${scriptpath}bash/bringAboveCentered.sh

fi

[tw5] Re: Sanitizing JS

2019-01-15 Thread Eric Shulman

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 11:41:16 AM UTC-8, AdamS wrote:
>
> Yeah, that's kind of my point. I understand why standard inline javascript 
> is not something that can be part of the core, or anything so fundamental 
> to the way tiddlywiki works. That's why I'm wondering if it would be 
> possible to sanitize it, removing any DOM related stuff or anything that 
> might pose a security problem, but allow things like string and array 
> manipulation and basic logic. I've found the wikitext and widget syntax 
> within TW5 to be a lot more difficult to learn than Javascript. If I'm not 
> alone in that, being able to do some of the lifting with a skill that is 
> more widely applicable might help with uptake with new users.
>

There are two separate issues here:
1) Being able to use custom javascript code to do calculations and other 
logic
2) Loading the code "on-the-fly"

As has been noted, (2) is problematic from a security standpoint... so 
let's just ignore that and focus on (1)...

Fortunately, the solution is *already provided* by the TWCore.  You can use
   https://tiddlywiki.com/dev/#JavaScript%20Macros
to define custom javascript functions that are loaded during startup 
processing (just like plugins).

Then, after startup, these javascript functions can be invoked from within 
tiddler content using the standard macro syntax (e.g., <> or <$macrocall $name="myMacro" ... />.

In addition, just like the definition of regular in-line macros (created 
using "\define foo(...)"), a javascript macro's "job" is simply to generate 
and return content for further rendering by the TWCore engine.

A good example of a simple javascript macro can be found here:
   https://tiddlywiki.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Fmacros%2Fnow.js

This code shows the definition of the TWCore's <> macro, which accepts 
one optional parameter -- a datetime format -- and returns the 
corresponding datetime text as it's result. 

In addition to the <> macro, there are several other javascript macros 
of varying complexity that are part of the TWCore.  Use $:/AdvancedSearch 
to search the *shadow* tiddlers for "core/modules/macros" and you will see 
about a dozen results for you to study.

Hopefully, this is enough to get you started.  Let me know how it goes.

enjoy,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools.com: "Small Tools for Big Ideas!" (tm)
InsideTiddlyWiki: The Missing Manuals

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[tw5] Re: Sanitizing JS

2019-01-15 Thread AdamS

Yeah, that's kind of my point. I understand why standard inline javascript 
is not something that can be part of the core, or anything so fundamental 
to the way tiddlywiki works. That's why I'm wondering if it would be 
possible to sanitize it, removing any DOM related stuff or anything that 
might pose a security problem, but allow things like string and array 
manipulation and basic logic. I've found the wikitext and widget syntax 
within TW5 to be a lot more difficult to learn than Javascript. If I'm not 
alone in that, being able to do some of the lifting with a skill that is 
more widely applicable might help with uptake with new users.

Best wishes,
Adam

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 7:13:05 PM UTC, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> My two cents as a person who understands quite a lot of what JS does but 
> has little comprehension of how it does what it does. Nor much interest in 
> it for its own sake.
>
> All I'd say is its probably a good idea to know what you are doing before 
> enabling it without restriction (which you can do).
>
> As far as I grasp it, TW JS has a specific model of the "DOM" that is 
> different from a lot of JS? So its coding needs follow a specific approach?
>
> On the other hand, if you budding into JS and like that kind of thing, why 
> not?
>
> Just thoughts
> Josiah
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Quinoid

Ciao Mark S. & Ton

I tried Quinoid and aTW on Android 8.0.0 on IMPORT & found aTW can import & 
I could not get Quinoid to. Like Ton.

Import is useful for customising a wiki, especially for mobile friendly 
themes.

My concern here is its all getting a bit complex early. In giving feedback 
I'm not sure I'm usefully precise enough. What I mean is I'm very unclear 
what is due to Android version; TW version; something else?

Just tentative comments
Josiah

Ton Gerner wrote:
>
> Just a practical case: when I tried BurningTree's Android app which can 
> start with an empty TW (on your wish list as well?). The first thing I did 
> was importing a mobile theme.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Quinoid

Right. Isn't the point with GD you edit on it? 

Mohammad wrote: 
>
> ... I cannot save to GDrive! Thats is because I cannot open the wiki file 
> from GDrive.
>

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[tw5] Re: Sanitizing JS

My two cents as a person who understands quite a lot of what JS does but 
has little comprehension of how it does what it does. Nor much interest for 
its own sake.

All I'd say is its probably a good idea to know what you are doing before 
enabling it without restriction (which you can do).

As far as I grasp it, TW JS has a specific model of the "DOM" that is 
different from a lot of JS? So its coding needs follow a specific approach?

On the other hand, if you budding into JS and like that kind of thing, why 
not?

Just thoughts
Josiah


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[tw5] Re: Quinoid

2019-01-15 Thread Mohammad

Hi Mark
Thank you for your reply. I cannot save to GDrive! Thats is because I 
cannot open the wiki file from GDrive.

I am experimenting with Quinoid and will return to you after that.

--Mohammad

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.2.0 Wibbly Wobbly

2019-01-15 Thread Ste Wilson

Hello! 
Finally ssh'd into my pi and updated both Bob and tiddlywiki. All went mostly 
well. 
All $:/ tiddlers seem to have vanished as had JD's mobile theme. Fortunately 
I'd a backup! 

Only snag so far is the 'download as single file' button reports an error and 
doesn't download. 

Will try to have an explore of new rudely and bob stuff soon. 

Thanks :)

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[tw5] Re: Sanitizing JS

That's probably right. But it all still comes down to whether you trust the 
source. If you trust the source, it doesn't matter whether the javascript 
is wrapped or not. If the source is untrustworthy, then it could still be 
doing something behind the scenes. And, except for Bob (I think), I don't 
think you have any access to write anything to the hard drive without going 
through the download dialog. So even malicious code could only get so far.

Thanks!
-- Mark

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 10:05:24 AM UTC-8, AdamS wrote:
>
> I was under the impression that inline JS has been passed on because it 
> would undermine the ability to confidently import plugins from other TWs. 
> So all the javascript is contained within tiddlers that have been marked as 
> modules as opposed to running inline in any old tiddler. That makes it 
> easier to know what javascript you are going to get before you import. 
> Otherwise somebody might be able to get hold of you tiddlywiki data because 
> you've imported something malicious. I thought the tiddlywiki framework was 
> made the way it was to avoid resorting to javascript for these reasons. I'm 
> not sure where I got that impression from, but I surely did.
>
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 4:24:56 PM UTC, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Is it a safety concern? Unless you're using a web-facing special 
>> deployment, who can change your TW code?
>>
>> I kind of thought it was more of a desire to reduce maintenance stemming 
>> from changes made via javascript that violate internal TW mechanisms. 
>> Especially since people might be tempted to cut and paste code from the web 
>> based on the standard DOM model. That makes sense. The problem is that the 
>> substitute toolkit we're given has some perplexing omissions.
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>> On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 5:09:46 PM UTC-8, AdamS wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> I know it has been discussed a few times, but I keep coming back to the 
>>> idea of inline javascript. Or at least something javascript-ish 
>>> (javascript-esque?). I know the reason this capability isn't standard is 
>>> because of security issues. I don't have much experience with this sort of 
>>> thing, but I'm wondering how significant are the barriers to sanitizing 
>>> inline javascript. What would need to be stripped out of a script tag to 
>>> ensure that it would be safe? I'm guessing any DOM manipulation would be 
>>> right out, as well as access to the window object. But even if we could 
>>> just get a safe inline javascript for control flow, array, string, and 
>>> number manipulation, that could be pretty cool. Could this be securely done?
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyDesktop -- Knock, Knock

Damon Pritchett wrote:
>
> One reason that I haven't been using TiddlyDesktop lately and editing in 
> Chrome instead is because of the built in spellchecker. Is there a plugin 
> or extension that could add spellchecking to either TiddlyWiki or 
> TiddlyDesktop?
>

Damon, under the hood TD works via the core of the Chrome browser. Quite 
how its compiled into a TW & whether the spell-checker could be included I 
don't know. But it might be worth requesting this on the GitHub for TD ... 
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyDesktop/issues

BTW, the TD Github is a good place to understand how GH works to make 
specific requests as its less overwhelming than the main TW repository.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: Sanitizing JS

2019-01-15 Thread Jed Carty

Yes, importing arbitrary javascript into a wiki is generally a very bad 
idea. Even with browser security it could do a lot of damage.

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[tw5] Re: Scrivener and Tiddlywiki

Dave,

I use Linux all day at work, and regularly at home, so I would be 
interested in seeing the bash script you've got, if you don't mind posting 
it.  I think I've heard you mention it in previous threads as well.  YAD 
wouldn't be a problem, as it's widely available.

I haven't looked into Bob yet, but I'm excited to check it out - it seems 
to have a lot of potential.

Even with all of the above capability, this doesn't solve the problem for a 
wider user base.  Including the capabilities we're discussing here in a 
common (and widely available) packaging is what will expand the TW user 
base.  While I can use Linux, install and test plugins, and set up Bob, 
most general users aren't going to want to do such things.  Honestly, I 
don't want to hack these things together either - I'd much rather have a 
project built on Tiddlywiki with capabilities like we're discussing ready 
to go, right out of the box, built by people who know what they're doing 
(definitely not me).  Maybe packaged with an updated TiddlyDesktop.  Still, 
beggars can't be choosers, and until I break down and learn to develop what 
I want, I'll be happy with the unrealized capability of TW, and the ability 
to cobble together something that mostly works for myself.  Or I'll use 
StackEdit, DynaList, Trillium, or Scrivener where they make more sense.

thanks for sharing your code, I'm interested in seeing what it does.

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 9:48:04 AM UTC-8, Dave wrote:
>
> P.S., this very discussion topic  is the reason I'm so happy to have found 
> Bob, simply because I can now use bash to manipulate tiddlers (text files) 
> at will (as I'm more proficient at bash than javascript)
>
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 10:45:31 AM UTC-7, Dave wrote:
>>
>> I have the beginnings of a setup like this, but it only works if you have 
>> a node-based TW system:
>>
>> I have a bash script (on Linux) that at a keystroke pops up a text dialog 
>> (big space for writing text), and it uses the first line as the tiddler 
>> title field, and anything you write immediately after that without empty 
>> lines can become part of the fields.
>>
>> E.g. just now I called it up (without having my TW open in the browser) 
>> and wrote:
>>
>> this is a test tiddler 2019-01-15
>> tags: wowser
>>
>>
>> bla bla bla 
>>
>> and then I opened up my TW and there it was [[this is a test tiddler 2019
>> -01-15]] with the tag "wowser" and the text below bla bla bla.  It 
>> automatically inserts the fields "created" and "modified" both with today's 
>> date.
>>
>>
>> I'd imagine you should be able to re-program the script to allow several 
>> sections in the text to break it up into several different tiddlers.  
>>
>> I don't have the time right now to actually do that (I'm a non-programmer 
>> by trade) but is this something you'd want me to post for you? (depends on 
>> if you have linux, and also you'd need the program YAD (yet another dialog) 
>> for it to work.
>>
>> - Dave P
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Sanitizing JS

2019-01-15 Thread AdamS

I was under the impression that inline JS has been passed on because it 
would undermine the ability to confidently import plugins from other TWs. 
So all the javascript is contained within tiddlers that have been marked as 
modules as opposed to running inline in any old tiddler. That makes it 
easier to know what javascript you are going to get before you import. 
Otherwise somebody might be able to get hold of you tiddlywiki data because 
you've imported something malicious. I thought the tiddlywiki framework was 
made the way it was to avoid resorting to javascript for these reasons. I'm 
not sure where I got that impression from, but I surely did.

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 4:24:56 PM UTC, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Is it a safety concern? Unless you're using a web-facing special 
> deployment, who can change your TW code?
>
> I kind of thought it was more of a desire to reduce maintenance stemming 
> from changes made via javascript that violate internal TW mechanisms. 
> Especially since people might be tempted to cut and paste code from the web 
> based on the standard DOM model. That makes sense. The problem is that the 
> substitute toolkit we're given has some perplexing omissions.
>
> -- Mark
>
> On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 5:09:46 PM UTC-8, AdamS wrote:
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I know it has been discussed a few times, but I keep coming back to the 
>> idea of inline javascript. Or at least something javascript-ish 
>> (javascript-esque?). I know the reason this capability isn't standard is 
>> because of security issues. I don't have much experience with this sort of 
>> thing, but I'm wondering how significant are the barriers to sanitizing 
>> inline javascript. What would need to be stripped out of a script tag to 
>> ensure that it would be safe? I'm guessing any DOM manipulation would be 
>> right out, as well as access to the window object. But even if we could 
>> just get a safe inline javascript for control flow, array, string, and 
>> number manipulation, that could be pretty cool. Could this be securely done?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Scrivener and Tiddlywiki

P.S., this very discussion is the reason I'm so happy to have found Bob, 
simply because I can now use bash to manipulate tiddlers (text files) at 
will (as I'm more proficient at bash than javascript)

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 10:45:31 AM UTC-7, Dave wrote:
>
> I have the beginnings of a setup like this, but it only works if you have 
> a node-based TW system:
>
> I have a bash script (on Linux) that at a keystroke pops up a text dialog 
> (big space for writing text), and it uses the first line as the tiddler 
> title field, and anything you write immediately after that without empty 
> lines can become part of the fields.
>
> E.g. just now I called it up (without having my TW open in the browser) 
> and wrote:
>
> this is a test tiddler 2019-01-15
> tags: wowser
>
>
> bla bla bla 
>
> and then I opened up my TW and there it was [[this is a test tiddler 2019-
> 01-15]] with the tag "wowser" and the text below bla bla bla.  It 
> automatically inserts the fields "created" and "modified" both with today's 
> date.
>
>
> I'd imagine you should be able to re-program the script to allow several 
> sections in the text to break it up into several different tiddlers.  
>
> I don't have the time right now to actually do that (I'm a non-programmer 
> by trade) but is this something you'd want me to post for you? (depends on 
> if you have linux, and also you'd need the program YAD (yet another dialog) 
> for it to work.
>
> - Dave P
>

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[tw5] Re: Scrivener and Tiddlywiki

I have the beginnings of a setup like this, but it only works if you have a
node-based TW system:

I have a bash script (on Linux) that at a keystroke pops up a text dialog
(big space for writing text), and it uses the first line as the tiddler
title field, and anything you write immediately after that without empty
lines can become part of the fields.

E.g. just now I called it up (without having my TW open in the browser) and
wrote:

this is a test tiddler 2019-01-15
tags: wowser

bla bla bla

and then I opened up my TW and there it was [[this is a test tiddler 2019-01
-15]] with the tag "wowser" and the text below bla bla bla. It
automatically inserts the fields "created" and "modified" both with today's
date.

I'd imagine you should be able to re-program the script to allow several
sections in the text to break it up into several different tiddlers.

I don't have the time right now to actually do that (I'm a non-programmer
by trade) but is this something you'd want me to post for you? (depends on
if you have linux, and also you'd need the program YAD (yet another dialog)
for it to work.

- Dave P

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[tw5] Re: Useful Lessons from the "Competition"

Dave,

I think the G10 TW.Apps summit is a great idea.  Think about it this way: 
Linux (which powers half the internet) is developed by a fairly 
decentralized group of coders and contributors.  What we need is a good 
project manager, and coders willing to cooperate around pre-defined and 
agreed upon standards - beyond the very open and capable framework TW 
itself provides as a basis - towards pre-determined usage goals.  Such a 
group takes nothing away from TW, which it uses as a foundation, but it has 
the potential to extend this framework in a way the TW project itself isn't 
likely to go: "TW.Apps: built on Tiddlywiki".  That's ok, it's just a 
different set of desired outcomes, using the same underlying framework.

Allow me to copy this from another current thread: We see other programs 
able to do this or that, and frequently say "TiddlyWiki can do that".  In 
most cases, that is absolutely true - TW can do that.  But it doesn't.  At 
least not "out of the box".  So many of these features require someone to 
code the capability, or develop a given feature, or download and test a 
plugin (and hope it doesn't break something else), and this is a HUGE 
barrier to entry and use for most people.  This is why StackEdit or 
DynaList or similar are used so easily - they just do the things that 
people require for a given workflow.  It's not that they're better from a 
tech standpoint, but they are better suited to the needs of their users, 
right out of the box.

In my view, this is one of the biggest lessons we can learn from the 
"competition".

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 8:28:21 AM UTC-8, Dave wrote:
>
> +1 for interoperable tags and fields - great idea!! (like fusion reactors 
> - but hopefully more achievable) 
>
>  I suspect barring a G10 Summit of Tiddlywiki this would have to be 
> achieved by a suite of TW.Apps made by one person (given our decentralized 
> nature)
>

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[tw5] Re: Quinoid

2019-01-15 Thread Ton Gerner

Hi Mark,


I never imported/exported when using AndTidWiki and am not sure what that 
> means. What exactly are people importing and exporting? I'm guessing this 
> is something that's useful at Android 5 or 6+ ?
>

Just a practical case: when I tried BurningTree's Android app which can 
start with an empty TW (on your wish list as well?). The first thing I did 
was importing a mobile theme.

Cheers,

Ton

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[tw5] Re: Scrivener and Tiddlywiki

Mark,

Yep, inserting these fields as text would allow me to move back (arrows, 
home, and end keys are my friend - and I'd never have to leave the 
keyboard), complete the required fields, and arrow back down to enter 
notes/text as desired.  If this keystroke combination could auto-populate 
things like the date fields, all the better, and allowing the user to 
choose which fields (beyond minimum required entries) are added would be a 
great bonus.  This is generally faster and more effective than constantly 
having to leave the keyboard to complete these tasks with the mouse 
interface for each new tiddler.

Parsing the text might be made easier with a dedicated delimiter inserted 
with/before the new tiddler fields: "-BeginTiddler-" for example.  
Just a thought.

Again, this would be beneficial in my view for a specific use case - where 
StackEdit or Dynalist are preferred for their speed of entry in a "live" 
situation.  Being able to do all of these things without leaving the 
keyboard makes categorizing and relating this work on the fly quicker, and 
automatically breaking the one long page down to distinct tiddlers fits the 
TW data model (and benefits) better.  At the very least, inserting these 
fields on demand - even if you go back and fill them out later - quickly 
and cleanly identifies natural break points for the author.   This allows 
cleanup and refinement later, before breaking the long page into individual 
tiddlers, without having to completely re-parse the work.

There's a discussion going on in another thread right now about useful 
lessons from the "competition", and one of the things that strikes me there 
(and here) is this:  We see other programs able to do this or that, and 
frequently say "TiddlyWiki can do that".  In most cases, that is absolutely 
true - TW can do that.  But it doesn't.  At least not "out of the box".  So 
many of these features require someone to code the capability, or develop a 
given feature, or download and test a plugin (and hope it doesn't break 
something else), and this is a HUGE barrier to entry and use for most 
people.  This is why StackEdit or DynaList or similar are used so easily - 
they just do the things that people require for a given workflow.  It's not 
that they're better from a tech standpoint, but they are better suited to 
the needs of their users, right out of the box.

Thanks for your input, I do appreciate everyone's consideration.
On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 8:04:38 AM UTC-8, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Just to clarify. You're suggesting that your keystroke insert the 
> suggested fields *as text* ? I think that part could be done now inside 
> the standard TW editor. The easiest way would be to hijack an existing key 
> (like underscore). Not sure how easy it would be to navigate back to the 
> starting point, so there might have to be some back-arrowing (technology is 
> forcing me to invent new words).
>
> So there would be a little fiddly stuff getting into the edit session, but 
> after that you could just type away, as long as you didn't make mistakes 
> like capitalizing tags incorrectly.
>
> The 2nd part, parsing the text, could be done with a separate tool. I've 
> made parsing java macros before that parsed CSV from one tiddler into a 
> collection of tiddlers (turning Shakespeare into tiddlers), so that's the 
> approach I would take. 
>
> Anyone else?
>
> -- Mark
>
> On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 4:58:54 PM UTC-8, Greg Molyneux wrote:
>>
>> Mark S. (and any interested hackers)
>>
>> That's EXACTLY the problem I see with using TiddlyWiki "live" as it were: 
>> trying to take notes on a live lecture or video presentation is 
>> tremendously painful in Tiddlywiki if you're trying to impose any order on 
>> the fly.  Moving from keyboard to mouse and back constantly makes the 
>> process largely unworkable with any serious time constraints.
>>
>> I love TW for its organizational and relational capabilities, but for 
>> getting down information quickly, it's not my first choice.  Tools like 
>> TiddlyMap can help here if properly utilized, and there are others, but 
>> they still leave you with the same problem: lots of kb to mouse to kb 
>> movement.  This is seriously distracting when you're trying to "keep up" 
>> with a live event, or get something out of your head quickly.
>>
>> That said, I do have an idea I'd like to float to anyone interested:  A 
>> killer plugin for TW would be a button that opens a new text entry window 
>> or frame.  Inside this otherwise blank frame, the user can type as fast as 
>> they are able, utilizing markdown or html (as in any standard tiddler), 
>> thus providing whatever formatting they see fit on the fly.  Yes, I know, 
>> you're thinking "you can do this with any tiddler right now, so what?"  
>> Well, here's where things get neat (in my head at least)...
>>
>> So far, the above largely mimics the general editing screen of StackEdit, 
>> so no big deal, but what if

[tw5] Re: Quinoid

2019-01-15 Thread Watt

For me import/export would be the 'tools' > 'import' button for importing 
plugins, tids, json etc. As you would on a normal TW wiki.
Same with export - either from an individual tiddler or the tools menu.
Thanks!

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Re: [tw5] Global Tiddler?

2019-01-15 Thread Jeremy Ruston

The reference to “global tiddler” was a mistake  in the tiddler “ Concatenating 
text and variables using macro substitution”:

Create a macro either at the top of the tiddler or in a global tiddler (see 
Macros ) like this:

I’ve updated the text to remove that reference, and you should see the updated 
version here shortly:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#Concatenating%20text%20and%20variables%20using%20macro%20substitution

Best wishes

Jeremy.



> On 13 Jan 2019, at 18:47, Jeff Wilson  wrote:
> 
> What's an example of a global toddler? The macro documentation mentions this, 
> but does not define it. 
> 
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[tw5] Re: Useful Lessons from the "Competition"

+1 for interoperable tags and fields - great idea!! (like fusion reactors - but 
hopefully more achievable) 

 I suspect barring a G10 Summit of Tiddlywiki this would have to be achieved by 
a suite of TW.Apps made by one person (given our decentralized nature)

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[tw5] Re: Sanitizing JS

Is it a safety concern? Unless you're using a web-facing special 
deployment, who can change your TW code?

I kind of thought it was more of a desire to reduce maintenance stemming 
from changes made via javascript that violate internal TW mechanisms. 
Especially since people might be tempted to cut and paste code from the web 
based on the standard DOM model. That makes sense. The problem is that the 
substitute toolkit we're given has some perplexing omissions.

-- Mark

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 5:09:46 PM UTC-8, AdamS wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I know it has been discussed a few times, but I keep coming back to the 
> idea of inline javascript. Or at least something javascript-ish 
> (javascript-esque?). I know the reason this capability isn't standard is 
> because of security issues. I don't have much experience with this sort of 
> thing, but I'm wondering how significant are the barriers to sanitizing 
> inline javascript. What would need to be stripped out of a script tag to 
> ensure that it would be safe? I'm guessing any DOM manipulation would be 
> right out, as well as access to the window object. But even if we could 
> just get a safe inline javascript for control flow, array, string, and 
> number manipulation, that could be pretty cool. Could this be securely done?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Adam
>

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[tw5] Re: Useful Lessons from the "Competition"

2019-01-15 Thread Diego Mesa

Some more observations: The notion post has over 887 votes and 438 
comments, making it a very highly voted and discussed post on HN. 
Tiddlywiki isn't mentioned once in the comments.


On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 1:40:30 PM UTC-6, Diego Mesa wrote:
>
> Just an update - notion hit HN today, and here are some comments:
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18904648
>
> On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 1:50:05 AM UTC-6, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> I am building a code mirror editor tiddlywiki, eddition. I will make it 
>> public for review however any comments on essential components would be 
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Its intended for text and code but not for tiddlywiky design.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Scrivener and Tiddlywiki

Hi Greg,

Just to clarify. You're suggesting that your keystroke insert the suggested 
fields *as text* ? I think that part could be done now inside the standard 
TW editor. The easiest way would be to hijack an existing key (like 
underscore). Not sure how easy it would be to navigate back to the starting 
point, so there might have to be some back-arrowing (technology is forcing 
me to invent new words).

So there would be a little fiddly stuff getting into the edit session, but 
after that you could just type away, as long as you didn't make mistakes 
like capitalizing tags incorrectly.

The 2nd part, parsing the text, could be done with a separate tool. I've 
made parsing java macros before that parsed CSV from one tiddler into a 
collection of tiddlers (turning Shakespeare into tiddlers), so that's the 
approach I would take. 

Anyone else?

-- Mark

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 4:58:54 PM UTC-8, Greg Molyneux wrote:
>
> Mark S. (and any interested hackers)
>
> That's EXACTLY the problem I see with using TiddlyWiki "live" as it were: 
> trying to take notes on a live lecture or video presentation is 
> tremendously painful in Tiddlywiki if you're trying to impose any order on 
> the fly.  Moving from keyboard to mouse and back constantly makes the 
> process largely unworkable with any serious time constraints.
>
> I love TW for its organizational and relational capabilities, but for 
> getting down information quickly, it's not my first choice.  Tools like 
> TiddlyMap can help here if properly utilized, and there are others, but 
> they still leave you with the same problem: lots of kb to mouse to kb 
> movement.  This is seriously distracting when you're trying to "keep up" 
> with a live event, or get something out of your head quickly.
>
> That said, I do have an idea I'd like to float to anyone interested:  A 
> killer plugin for TW would be a button that opens a new text entry window 
> or frame.  Inside this otherwise blank frame, the user can type as fast as 
> they are able, utilizing markdown or html (as in any standard tiddler), 
> thus providing whatever formatting they see fit on the fly.  Yes, I know, 
> you're thinking "you can do this with any tiddler right now, so what?"  
> Well, here's where things get neat (in my head at least)...
>
> So far, the above largely mimics the general editing screen of StackEdit, 
> so no big deal, but what if you were able to use a keystroke combination in 
> this editor pane to insert a new tiddler framework.  So for example, if I 
> press  (or whatever - the choice doesn't matter much as long 
> as it doesn't mess up anything else), this editor pane inserts something 
> similar to the following:
>
> created:
> creator:
> list:
> modified:
> modifier:
> tags:
> title:
> tmap.id:
>
> And then positions the cursor directly under these inserted fields, for 
> data entry.  Now, the above entries were taken from a .tid file I exported 
> from one of my tiddlers, so there's more in there than is necessary for a 
> new tiddler, but you get the idea.  Now, I can already hear someone saying 
> "you can do that right now by just copying this minimal framework to the 
> clipboard", and that's true, but using a key binding would allow me to 
> cut/paste text as I go for the editing I'm discussing, and that's 
> important.  It'd be really impressive if the fields pasted with the custom 
> key combination could be customized, so I could add fields as necessary for 
> my specific wiki.
>
> I understand, there's nothing specifically remarkable about what I'm 
> suggesting above.  Assuming I've gone back to each of these pasted field 
> sections shown above, and entered relevant information (title, tags, etc.), 
> or had the information auto-populated (dates, modifier, etc.), then we have 
> the basics for any number of individual tiddlers in text/markup form, all 
> contained on this one edit panel.  After I'm done editing and taking notes, 
> the magic plugin I'm thinking of would at this point allow me to press a 
> "parse" or "finish" (or whatever) button, and it would parse the text I'd 
> entered, separate the individual tiddlers at the appropriate points (using 
> the populated fields listed as examples above), and create appropriate 
> tiddlers in the TW file, properly tagged, linked, and stored as if I'd 
> created them via the mouse interface one at a time.  Think of the time 
> savings this would permit for live or rapid work, and still give us the 
> organizational benefits of TW over an editor like StackEdit.
>
> From my perspective, if you want to win users over from DynaList, 
> StackEdit, or some of the other tools mentioned earlier in this thread, 
> that'd be a quick (and really slick) way to squash some of the usability 
> issues discussed here.  If anyone knows of a plugin that does this right 
> now, please let me know, I'd love to try it out.
>
> Regardless, I'd like to thank all the regulars here who do so much good 
> work with this

[tw5] Re: Quinoid