[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Mat]

rootsical - thank you so much for clarifying your use case. At least for me 
it really puts things in a different light. To name one thing; I had no 
idea tw was served via some other site 
! Thank you.

...

The following is mostly directed to @Jeremy and other core developers:

The fact that there was another entrance point to TW other than perhaps 
individuals promoting TW via their own local TWs. rootsicals makes me want 
to call attention to #2344 


Overall, do people use google to find docs *content*? Any way to measure 
this? This totally messes up many fundamental assumptions I've had. Can we 
adopt to this practice? Prevent it? rootsical is clearly an advanced user 
(messing with npm) but such users are of course also the most valuable ones 
for the TW project at large. 

His (justified) experience that TW (in that context) is "hard to navigate 
and keep track of where you are and what you are doing." is deeply 
problematic. IMO, that touches on the very key things TW is supposed to be 
good at! Looking at a single page document, I agree it totally lacks 
overview. Like looking at the world through a drinking straw. Could it be 
as simple(?) as introducing a (special) sidebar in static pages? A menu 
with docs topic categories. Breadcrumbs?... A static tiddler as they 
currently are presented feels more like a thing for printouts.

If people "enter" TW in a way we didn't intend, is there any way to set 
them on the "right path"? 

Overall how can we somewhere *collect *use cases where people give up on, 
or dismiss, TW. This is of course more serious than most other issues.


<:-)

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[rootsical]

 sorry if i wasn't very clear. basically, i got my tiddlywiki from npm and 
followed the instructions on github on how to install. when i need help, 
for example, on how to create a contents page, i would google something 
like 'tiddlywiki add contents page' (i always find search engines superior 
to a locally implemented search function). this returns a static version of 
a tiddlywiki, which is nearly what i am after. the links within these 
static tiddlers resolve to other tiddlers. this is the reason i believe the 
static site comes up in google searches more easily. unfortunately, you are 
then lacking the sidebar with the home button and contents etc. 

whenever i learn anything it is nice to be able to browse a site and click 
to go back to where i was, or navigate easily. i find it simpler to absorb 
information in sites that have implemented mediawiki (such as wikipedia and 
the arch linux wiki https://wiki.archlinux.org). my complaint with 
tiddlywiki is that it is hard to navigate and keep track of where you are 
and what you are doing. this is why i find absorbing information from a 
tiddlywiki more difficult. i would prefer the tiddlywiki information to be 
presented like it would be in mediawiki. even better, i would hope for 
tiddlywiki to appear and work more like mediawiki from the perspective of a 
content consumer. however mediawiki is too complicated for my needs and the 
setup takes a long time. in this sense, i find tiddlywiki superior as it is 
simpler and easier to understand and implement. my only problem is with how 
the resulting tiddlywiki is presented and the drawbacks which come from not 
following a normal url-based website structure.

i hope that makes my situation clearer. thanks again for all your 
responses..

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Mat]

On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 7:16:40 PM UTC+2, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>
> The problem is that web spiders do not understand tiddlywiky.
>

You might be right - but so far, from what I've read, it is not possible to 
conclude that this is that problem that rootsical has.

And do people normally search TW documentation via google, rather than via 
tiddlywiki.com? (we don't know, is the only answer to that)
 Everyone(?) who has a TW got it from tiddlywiki.com so they probably know 
that is where the docs are. 

<:-)

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Re: [tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Eneko Gotzon]

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Danielo Rodríguez 
wrote:

> web spiders do not understand tiddlywiky…


That seems a big drawback ...
​ :/​ It's not good to be bad indexed.


-- 
Eneko Gotzon Ares
enekogot...@gmail.com

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Danielo Rodríguez]

> Are you saying it is difficult to locate where that/those documentation 
> wiki/s are? Or where, within that/those wikis, the information is located? 
> Any spontaneous opinion on where would be a better place to display the 
> documentation/resources or how?

The problem is that web spiders do not understand tiddlywiky. So if you make a 
search in Google you have more chances to end visiting a github repository than 
any tiddliwiki. And that if you have luck enough to search for something that 
has a related repository 

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Mat]

rootsical - it is really appreciated that you give feedback about what is 
not good enough - especially if it is such a showstopper that you might not 
use TW at all! Likely, people leaving TW or never really starting, do so 
silently which makes it very difficult to improve things, of course.

If you find mediawiki better then you should of course go with that. It 
would be very kind of you if you could just clarify your feedback so we can 
improve stuff it. Who knows maybe it is even a simple fix or 
misunderstanding:
 

> just another bit of feedback is that i also found it very hard to find 
> information and help about tiddlywiki because all the 
> documentation/resources seem to be presented within tiddlywikis themselves.
>

Are you saying it is difficult to locate where that/those documentation 
wiki/s are? Or where, within that/those wikis, the information is located? 
Any spontaneous opinion on where would be a better place to display the 
documentation/resources or how?

 

> i still think that mediawiki is the best way to present such information 
> as people are used to it and i believe it is indexed better by search 
> engines. 
>

"Search engines" meaning you're using e.g google to find the documentation? 
Or are the search results inadequate when using the local search tool 
inside a TW?
 
Thank you!

<:-)

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Danielo Rodríguez]

There are shops built with tiddliwiki. I'm on a mobile device but I'll try to 
find it for you later 

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[rootsical]

i just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone for all your responses. 
unfortunately, i do not think that i can do what i am after with 
tiddlywiki, at least not without a lot of further work. just another bit of 
feedback is that i also found it very hard to find information and help 
about tiddlywiki because all the documentation/resources seem to be 
presented within tiddlywikis themselves. i still think that mediawiki is 
the best way to present such information as people are used to it and i 
believe it is indexed better by search engines. however i am really 
impressed with tiddlywiki for authoring notes and keeping things organised 
from the perspective of the content creator as opposed to the consumer of 
such content. thanks again!

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Matabele]

Hi rootsical

Some time ago I put up this site  -- the 
layout uses an alternative pop up menu that makes the site work in a more 
standard way.

Numerous tweaks were, however, required to achieve this.

regards

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 12:16:17 UTC+2, rootsical wrote:
>
> hi. 
>
> i was wondering if it was possible to create a website from a tiddlywiki, 
> which has separate browsable pages for each tiddler. 
>
> i love how easy it is to use tiddlywiki but from a presentation and 
> useability aspect, i find the single page idea not to my taste. i much 
> prefer how mediawiki presents its pages with real url links to navigate. 
>
> i have installed tiddlywiki using npm (for use with node.js).  i am aware 
> of the commands for exporting to a static site. however, i am not sure a 
> static site is what i am after. i have no problem with the use of 
> javascript but just want separate browseable pages. the current output of 
> exporting as a static site seems to disable the ability to click on any of 
> the buttons to do anything. i cannot browse or use the tiddlywiki as 
> normal. i assume this is because pure html link tags are not being 
> generated and/or javascript seems to be completely missing/disabled.
>
> can anybody let me know if it is possible to achieve what i am after, and 
> if so, how?
>
> many thanks.
>
>
>

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Josiah]

I REALLY LIKE the discussions on NOTESELF, not least because they deal 
head-on with fundamental TW issues. Like this one.

Danielo has reached into the heart of it. His steps have been measured and 
effective.

They WORK even if you don't like them.

Part of what he has done so far is pointing broader ways forward IMO.

Why? Because he's dealing with fundamentals of browser architecture, not 
trying to obvert them.

Its fascinating & relevant IMO.

Best wishes
Josiah

On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 16:01:41 UTC+2, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
>
> Ello rootsical,
>
> Is noteself.github.io similar to what you mean? Just check the layout, 
> navigate the menus, it looks like a regular web page. Maybe it does not 
> look like , but it is an actual tiddlywiki.
> Another option is what Mat suggests. Maybe that is more than enough.
>

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Ello rootsical,

Is noteself.github.io similar to what you mean? Just check the layout, 
navigate the menus, it looks like a regular web page. Maybe it does not 
look like , but it is an actual tiddlywiki.
Another option is what Mat suggests. Maybe that is more than enough.

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[tw] Re: creating site from tiddlywiki with multiple browseable pages

[Mat]

Not actual url pages but did you try to simply change 
Ctrlpanel>Appearence>Storyview ?

<:-)

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