[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[Mark Krieg]

Thank you so very much for your efforts with TiddlyWorldBuilder!!!  This is 
a dream come true for me! The best of Stroll blended with Mentat!!!  If I 
had the time and the programming chops, I'd dive right in to help bring it 
up to the 5.2 code. Unfortunately my programmer days have long past and the 
languages I used to use are largely extinct. But I hope you continue your 
development with with TiddlyWorldBuilder! Simply brilliant!!!

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 1:11:45 AM UTC-4 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> So this is still a work in progress but wanted to thank the community for 
> all their help up to this point by showing you all what I've put together.
>
> TiddlyWorldBuilder currently combines..
>
>- The linking capabilities/concepts of Stroll (
>https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html) minus the two column 
>view (replaced by Mentat floating Tiddlers below).
>- The concept maps thought process/features by TiddlyMap (
>http://tiddlymap.org/).
>- The Tiddler presentation capabilities of Mentat (
>https://thesherwood.github.io/Mentat/) minus the Engine plugin 
>(disabled it) that was used to create the HUD in Mentat as that was 
>breaking functionality.
>- An adjusted Tabs area by modifying the underlying Core tiddlers, 
>their tags, and fields.
>   - All removed tabs were moved to beneath the "More" tab.
>   - Added a "Temps" (for Template until I get an icon) tab with links 
>   that will create new Tiddlers based on content templates.* (I have 
>   created three of the four templates listed but don't have them in this 
>   particular Tiddly file yet.)*
>
>
> Current Caveats
>
>- Need to have a Story Window (from Mentat) open before creating a new 
>Tiddler or else it will throw an error.
>- For some reason when the Mentat Story Visualization is turned on, 
>which it needs to be in order to have the floating Tiddlers, you have to 
>Right click in some fields in order to put the focus in them to edit them 
>in New and Existing Tiddlers.
>
>
>
> Just to clarify; I haven't built any plugins or modified any of the 
> existing plugins. I've just been piecing certain things together to create 
> a solution for a need. I included the links to the various projects to 
> ensure proper credit is given :)
>
> Hopefully by doing all the above and calling the solution a particular 
> name I didn't break any rules or take part in a taboo. If I did, I 
> apologize!
>
> Would love feedback as well!
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[strikke...@gmail.com]

I think it might be better to ask in a new thread - about the stories 
plugin created by Saq.  Maybe explain a little about the benefit you expect 
from the changed layout.
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 3:18:28 AM UTC+2 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello David and thank you for your replies above! I didn't realize I 
> didn't reply to this one before so I'm sorry for the delay! The information 
> you and the others of this group have provided has been amazing and very 
> much appreciated!
>
> One follow-up question about Stroll:
>
> How hard would it be to change the two vertical column layout to a two 
> horizontal row layout instead?
>
> So  as an example instead of 
>
> col1 col2 as it is now it would be
>
> row1
> row2 
>
> Would it be something you would be willing to do? Even if it comes down to 
> reimbursing you for your time in modifying the code in Stroll I would be 
> very much open to it.
>
> On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 8:23:40 AM UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> There is no right answer, there is only the way that feels right to you 
>> and gives you a fast, non-tedious, enjoyable workflow based on how your 
>> mind works, which may be different from mine. The more you experiment, the 
>> more options you will find.
>>
>> The "usual" way in TiddlyWiki is tagging a tiddler with its parent topics 
>> or categories. So City A might be tagged "Cities" and "Country A". Then you 
>> write your definition and description and if you see potential links, you 
>> turn them into actual links, or use a tool like Freelinks to have them be 
>> links without them being links. Remember that Freelinks are not 
>> bi-directional. So if you mention City A in tiddler of Country A, the 
>> reference to City A will show as a link. But in the City A tiddler, nothing 
>> will change, so there will be no reference to Country A.
>>
>> I don't tend to write link-rich Wikipedia types of tiddlers, so I can't 
>> help you too much there. My current system for notetaking from reading is: 
>> Create a tiddler for the book or source. Paste the title into a "currently 
>> reading" window. Read. Take a note in the relevant topic. Use an editor 
>> toolbar button to paste the currently reading tiddler as the source of the 
>> note. Add page number. Read and repeat. Fantastic workflow for that. But 
>> you may be doing something else that requires something totally different.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:19:34 PM UTC-5 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and providing so much 
>>> feedback! It has been very helpful.
>>>
>>> If I may ask two follow-up questions:
>>>
>>> 1)  I do seem to be driving for a Wikipedia level of thoroughness 
>>> regarding the content, at least with this world building concept. At the 
>>> same time I'm still having trouble finding a way to collect my thoughts on 
>>> other topics in general. Do you feel it is safe to say that if I'm taking 
>>> the hitting the content with a Wikipedia level of thoroughness then I, as 
>>> you pointed out, am already doing the organization/relationship building 
>>> *manually*? If yes, is there a "better" (or more simplistic) way where 
>>> I utilize the tools in Stroll (or even Drift) to make it more automated? Or 
>>> is the effort I'm putting in just a requirement of the wikipedia level of 
>>> content?
>>>
>>> 2) Using my original example of tiddlers another method I could use 
>>> would be instead of adding the link back to the Country tiddler inside the 
>>> City tiddler description, just leave the single link at the top when you 
>>> created it from the Country tiddler and then keep typing. In that case it 
>>> is just a preference of how you want to do the link back?
>>>
>>> Also, again thank you very much for mentioning Drift. While I'm still 
>>> looking into it, and I think I came across it before though I didn't 
>>> understand it fully the first time around, from what I understand now of 
>>> "Freelinks" it might be the answer I'm looking for regarding trying to 
>>> write down as much as possible, regardless of content and topic, and have 
>>> it grouped together by keywords. It could also beneficial when I once again 
>>> combine my world tiddly with my book tiddly so as I write things in the 
>>> book I can reference it later on the appropriate/associated/specific 
>>> tiddler with Freelinks turned on.
>>>
>>> Not to sound redundant but thank you again!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:46:42 PM UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:
>>>
 Hi iamdar...

 TiddlyWiki always had bidirectional linking. If you create a link in 
 tiddler A to tiddler B, you could go to tiddler B, open "info" from the 
 tiddler more menu, and see tiddler A under backlinks. So obviously, 
 backlinking was pretty hidden and not very practical. Too many steps to 
 get 
 to it.

 Roam Research made bidirectional linking more visible. All the 
 references are at the bottom of 

[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[Darth Mole]

Hello David and thank you for your replies above! I didn't realize I didn't 
reply to this one before so I'm sorry for the delay! The information you 
and the others of this group have provided has been amazing and very much 
appreciated!

One follow-up question about Stroll:

How hard would it be to change the two vertical column layout to a two 
horizontal row layout instead?

So  as an example instead of 

col1 col2 as it is now it would be

row1
row2 

Would it be something you would be willing to do? Even if it comes down to 
reimbursing you for your time in modifying the code in Stroll I would be 
very much open to it.

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 8:23:40 AM UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:

> There is no right answer, there is only the way that feels right to you 
> and gives you a fast, non-tedious, enjoyable workflow based on how your 
> mind works, which may be different from mine. The more you experiment, the 
> more options you will find.
>
> The "usual" way in TiddlyWiki is tagging a tiddler with its parent topics 
> or categories. So City A might be tagged "Cities" and "Country A". Then you 
> write your definition and description and if you see potential links, you 
> turn them into actual links, or use a tool like Freelinks to have them be 
> links without them being links. Remember that Freelinks are not 
> bi-directional. So if you mention City A in tiddler of Country A, the 
> reference to City A will show as a link. But in the City A tiddler, nothing 
> will change, so there will be no reference to Country A.
>
> I don't tend to write link-rich Wikipedia types of tiddlers, so I can't 
> help you too much there. My current system for notetaking from reading is: 
> Create a tiddler for the book or source. Paste the title into a "currently 
> reading" window. Read. Take a note in the relevant topic. Use an editor 
> toolbar button to paste the currently reading tiddler as the source of the 
> note. Add page number. Read and repeat. Fantastic workflow for that. But 
> you may be doing something else that requires something totally different.
>
> HTH
>
>
>
> On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:19:34 PM UTC-5 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and providing so much 
>> feedback! It has been very helpful.
>>
>> If I may ask two follow-up questions:
>>
>> 1)  I do seem to be driving for a Wikipedia level of thoroughness 
>> regarding the content, at least with this world building concept. At the 
>> same time I'm still having trouble finding a way to collect my thoughts on 
>> other topics in general. Do you feel it is safe to say that if I'm taking 
>> the hitting the content with a Wikipedia level of thoroughness then I, as 
>> you pointed out, am already doing the organization/relationship building 
>> *manually*? If yes, is there a "better" (or more simplistic) way where I 
>> utilize the tools in Stroll (or even Drift) to make it more automated? Or 
>> is the effort I'm putting in just a requirement of the wikipedia level of 
>> content?
>>
>> 2) Using my original example of tiddlers another method I could use would 
>> be instead of adding the link back to the Country tiddler inside the City 
>> tiddler description, just leave the single link at the top when you created 
>> it from the Country tiddler and then keep typing. In that case it is just a 
>> preference of how you want to do the link back?
>>
>> Also, again thank you very much for mentioning Drift. While I'm still 
>> looking into it, and I think I came across it before though I didn't 
>> understand it fully the first time around, from what I understand now of 
>> "Freelinks" it might be the answer I'm looking for regarding trying to 
>> write down as much as possible, regardless of content and topic, and have 
>> it grouped together by keywords. It could also beneficial when I once again 
>> combine my world tiddly with my book tiddly so as I write things in the 
>> book I can reference it later on the appropriate/associated/specific 
>> tiddler with Freelinks turned on.
>>
>> Not to sound redundant but thank you again!
>>
>> On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:46:42 PM UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>> Hi iamdar...
>>>
>>> TiddlyWiki always had bidirectional linking. If you create a link in 
>>> tiddler A to tiddler B, you could go to tiddler B, open "info" from the 
>>> tiddler more menu, and see tiddler A under backlinks. So obviously, 
>>> backlinking was pretty hidden and not very practical. Too many steps to get 
>>> to it.
>>>
>>> Roam Research made bidirectional linking more visible. All the 
>>> references are at the bottom of each page on Roam. So, since Stroll was an 
>>> experiment to see how much of Roam that I could replicate in TiddlyWiki, I 
>>> also made b-linking visible.
>>>
>>> I use backlinks mostly for quick navigation to related concepts, but it 
>>> also helps the serendipitous discovery of related concepts. 
>>>
>>> In the example you give, you wouldn't technically need 

[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[David Gifford]

There is no right answer, there is only the way that feels right to you and 
gives you a fast, non-tedious, enjoyable workflow based on how your mind 
works, which may be different from mine. The more you experiment, the more 
options you will find.

The "usual" way in TiddlyWiki is tagging a tiddler with its parent topics 
or categories. So City A might be tagged "Cities" and "Country A". Then you 
write your definition and description and if you see potential links, you 
turn them into actual links, or use a tool like Freelinks to have them be 
links without them being links. Remember that Freelinks are not 
bi-directional. So if you mention City A in tiddler of Country A, the 
reference to City A will show as a link. But in the City A tiddler, nothing 
will change, so there will be no reference to Country A.

I don't tend to write link-rich Wikipedia types of tiddlers, so I can't 
help you too much there. My current system for notetaking from reading is: 
Create a tiddler for the book or source. Paste the title into a "currently 
reading" window. Read. Take a note in the relevant topic. Use an editor 
toolbar button to paste the currently reading tiddler as the source of the 
note. Add page number. Read and repeat. Fantastic workflow for that. But 
you may be doing something else that requires something totally different.

HTH



On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:19:34 PM UTC-5 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and providing so much 
> feedback! It has been very helpful.
>
> If I may ask two follow-up questions:
>
> 1)  I do seem to be driving for a Wikipedia level of thoroughness 
> regarding the content, at least with this world building concept. At the 
> same time I'm still having trouble finding a way to collect my thoughts on 
> other topics in general. Do you feel it is safe to say that if I'm taking 
> the hitting the content with a Wikipedia level of thoroughness then I, as 
> you pointed out, am already doing the organization/relationship building 
> *manually*? If yes, is there a "better" (or more simplistic) way where I 
> utilize the tools in Stroll (or even Drift) to make it more automated? Or 
> is the effort I'm putting in just a requirement of the wikipedia level of 
> content?
>
> 2) Using my original example of tiddlers another method I could use would 
> be instead of adding the link back to the Country tiddler inside the City 
> tiddler description, just leave the single link at the top when you created 
> it from the Country tiddler and then keep typing. In that case it is just a 
> preference of how you want to do the link back?
>
> Also, again thank you very much for mentioning Drift. While I'm still 
> looking into it, and I think I came across it before though I didn't 
> understand it fully the first time around, from what I understand now of 
> "Freelinks" it might be the answer I'm looking for regarding trying to 
> write down as much as possible, regardless of content and topic, and have 
> it grouped together by keywords. It could also beneficial when I once again 
> combine my world tiddly with my book tiddly so as I write things in the 
> book I can reference it later on the appropriate/associated/specific 
> tiddler with Freelinks turned on.
>
> Not to sound redundant but thank you again!
>
> On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:46:42 PM UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> Hi iamdar...
>>
>> TiddlyWiki always had bidirectional linking. If you create a link in 
>> tiddler A to tiddler B, you could go to tiddler B, open "info" from the 
>> tiddler more menu, and see tiddler A under backlinks. So obviously, 
>> backlinking was pretty hidden and not very practical. Too many steps to get 
>> to it.
>>
>> Roam Research made bidirectional linking more visible. All the references 
>> are at the bottom of each page on Roam. So, since Stroll was an experiment 
>> to see how much of Roam that I could replicate in TiddlyWiki, I also made 
>> b-linking visible.
>>
>> I use backlinks mostly for quick navigation to related concepts, but it 
>> also helps the serendipitous discovery of related concepts. 
>>
>> In the example you give, you wouldn't technically need backlinking, since 
>> each tiddler refers to the other (Country A and City A, for example). But 
>> as you hint at, there are plenty of topics where you might not want to go 
>> through all the effort of writing out each description fully and with ample 
>> backlinks, as you have done. Life is short, and hopefully you are not 
>> trying to compete with Wikipedia for completeness. 
>>
>> I tend to create what I call index tiddlers when I want to create a table 
>> of contents on a given topic (say, Index: Country A). I keep that separate 
>> from Country A, where I keep the definition and description. But I usually 
>> find a way to hide index tiddlers when viewing in context or as 
>> transclusion, because index tiddlers tend to be longer.
>>
>> If you haven't seen Drift, you might also want 

[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[Darth Mole]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and providing so much 
feedback! It has been very helpful.

If I may ask two follow-up questions:

1)  I do seem to be driving for a Wikipedia level of thoroughness regarding 
the content, at least with this world building concept. At the same time 
I'm still having trouble finding a way to collect my thoughts on other 
topics in general. Do you feel it is safe to say that if I'm taking the 
hitting the content with a Wikipedia level of thoroughness then I, as you 
pointed out, am already doing the organization/relationship building 
*manually*? If yes, is there a "better" (or more simplistic) way where I 
utilize the tools in Stroll (or even Drift) to make it more automated? Or 
is the effort I'm putting in just a requirement of the wikipedia level of 
content?

2) Using my original example of tiddlers another method I could use would 
be instead of adding the link back to the Country tiddler inside the City 
tiddler description, just leave the single link at the top when you created 
it from the Country tiddler and then keep typing. In that case it is just a 
preference of how you want to do the link back?

Also, again thank you very much for mentioning Drift. While I'm still 
looking into it, and I think I came across it before though I didn't 
understand it fully the first time around, from what I understand now of 
"Freelinks" it might be the answer I'm looking for regarding trying to 
write down as much as possible, regardless of content and topic, and have 
it grouped together by keywords. It could also beneficial when I once again 
combine my world tiddly with my book tiddly so as I write things in the 
book I can reference it later on the appropriate/associated/specific 
tiddler with Freelinks turned on.

Not to sound redundant but thank you again!

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 7:46:42 PM UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:

> Hi iamdar...
>
> TiddlyWiki always had bidirectional linking. If you create a link in 
> tiddler A to tiddler B, you could go to tiddler B, open "info" from the 
> tiddler more menu, and see tiddler A under backlinks. So obviously, 
> backlinking was pretty hidden and not very practical. Too many steps to get 
> to it.
>
> Roam Research made bidirectional linking more visible. All the references 
> are at the bottom of each page on Roam. So, since Stroll was an experiment 
> to see how much of Roam that I could replicate in TiddlyWiki, I also made 
> b-linking visible.
>
> I use backlinks mostly for quick navigation to related concepts, but it 
> also helps the serendipitous discovery of related concepts. 
>
> In the example you give, you wouldn't technically need backlinking, since 
> each tiddler refers to the other (Country A and City A, for example). But 
> as you hint at, there are plenty of topics where you might not want to go 
> through all the effort of writing out each description fully and with ample 
> backlinks, as you have done. Life is short, and hopefully you are not 
> trying to compete with Wikipedia for completeness. 
>
> I tend to create what I call index tiddlers when I want to create a table 
> of contents on a given topic (say, Index: Country A). I keep that separate 
> from Country A, where I keep the definition and description. But I usually 
> find a way to hide index tiddlers when viewing in context or as 
> transclusion, because index tiddlers tend to be longer.
>
> If you haven't seen Drift, you might also want to see the way it handles 
> references. https://akhater.github.io/drift/ It was inspired by Stroll, 
> but avoids the extra column, and adds tagging and freelinks to the 
> references, which is more thorough.
>
> I don't think the focus on backlinking in Stroll is pulling TiddlyWiki 
> away from its roots. In part it is just making more explicit the backlink 
> feature that already existed in TW. And in part, because ultimately TW is 
> about customization and mixing and matching to create the workflow you 
> need. And that would be my main advice to you as you build the world 
> builder: don't rush to make it public. Play with it for awhile, use it 
> yourself, and tweak it in order to eliminate defects and make it work for 
> your workflow. That way when you do feel comfortable with the 'final' 
> product, you will be able to describe not only the features but a suggested 
> workflow. You need to be able to articulate what WorldBuilder does best, 
> and for what real world use cases.
>
> Not offended, I understood what you meant, and I hope the above helps.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:50:27 AM UTC-5 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello *David* and thank you very much for your reply, clarification, and 
>> contributions (already given and offered)! I will be sure to only reference 
>> it as Stroll going forward :)
>>
>> If I may ask, and I feel this is from an ignorance on my part so I 
>> apologize, what is the purpose of the bi-directional linking? I understand 
>> the 

[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[David Gifford]

Hi iamdar...

TiddlyWiki always had bidirectional linking. If you create a link in 
tiddler A to tiddler B, you could go to tiddler B, open "info" from the 
tiddler more menu, and see tiddler A under backlinks. So obviously, 
backlinking was pretty hidden and not very practical. Too many steps to get 
to it.

Roam Research made bidirectional linking more visible. All the references 
are at the bottom of each page on Roam. So, since Stroll was an experiment 
to see how much of Roam that I could replicate in TiddlyWiki, I also made 
b-linking visible.

I use backlinks mostly for quick navigation to related concepts, but it 
also helps the serendipitous discovery of related concepts. 

In the example you give, you wouldn't technically need backlinking, since 
each tiddler refers to the other (Country A and City A, for example). But 
as you hint at, there are plenty of topics where you might not want to go 
through all the effort of writing out each description fully and with ample 
backlinks, as you have done. Life is short, and hopefully you are not 
trying to compete with Wikipedia for completeness. 

I tend to create what I call index tiddlers when I want to create a table 
of contents on a given topic (say, Index: Country A). I keep that separate 
from Country A, where I keep the definition and description. But I usually 
find a way to hide index tiddlers when viewing in context or as 
transclusion, because index tiddlers tend to be longer.

If you haven't seen Drift, you might also want to see the way it handles 
references. https://akhater.github.io/drift/ It was inspired by Stroll, but 
avoids the extra column, and adds tagging and freelinks to the references, 
which is more thorough.

I don't think the focus on backlinking in Stroll is pulling TiddlyWiki away 
from its roots. In part it is just making more explicit the backlink 
feature that already existed in TW. And in part, because ultimately TW is 
about customization and mixing and matching to create the workflow you 
need. And that would be my main advice to you as you build the world 
builder: don't rush to make it public. Play with it for awhile, use it 
yourself, and tweak it in order to eliminate defects and make it work for 
your workflow. That way when you do feel comfortable with the 'final' 
product, you will be able to describe not only the features but a suggested 
workflow. You need to be able to articulate what WorldBuilder does best, 
and for what real world use cases.

Not offended, I understood what you meant, and I hope the above helps.







On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 10:50:27 AM UTC-5 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello *David* and thank you very much for your reply, clarification, and 
> contributions (already given and offered)! I will be sure to only reference 
> it as Stroll going forward :)
>
> If I may ask, and I feel this is from an ignorance on my part so I 
> apologize, what is the purpose of the bi-directional linking? I understand 
> the functionality, but from a practice standpoint, is the idea just to 
> provide a quick reference/link for convenience (as mentioned Linking in 
> Stroll, part 2 from your site which I just now read a second time and 
> perhaps did so correctly this time lol)? Or is it also way to create a 
> "summary" or "list" of related content? I guess my confusion/over thinking 
> is coming from the idea that if you are writing a wiki entry and link to a 
> related entry then somewhere in that entry there would end up a link back 
> to the original entry. Now I'm saying wiki entry but in this case I mean 
> Tiddler.
>
> IE:
>
> Country A
> Country A is a vast land composed of [[City A]], [[City B]], and [[City 
> C]]. Etc. Etc.
>
> City A
> City A is the capital of [[Country A]] and is due north of [[City B]], and 
> [[City C]]. Etc. Etc.
>
> City B
> City B, is the second largest city of [[Country A]] and can be found south 
> of [[City A]] and west of [[City C]].
>
> City C
> City C, is the smallest all of [[Country A]]'s cities and can be found 
> south of [[City A]] and east of [[City B]].
>
> In order for the bi-directional links of Stroll to work I would need to do 
> the above, or at least have a reference like section where I list out the 
> associated Tiddler links at least once. But haven't I already created a 
> bi-directional link when I linked to/created City A from Country A and then 
> referenced Country A in City A?
>
> I could see not having any content in Country A, simply a tiddler with the 
> title Country A and then having the related contents of City A, B, and C 
> link to [[Country A]] with *Highlights in context* turned on in the 
> Stroll settings. But then how do you determine which Tiddler level to use 
> the "summary"?
>
> There is also the idea that I'm butchering the tiddler method here and am 
> over complicating things by treating TiddlyWiki as something it isn't by 
> default and that Stroll turns it into. I hope I haven't been offensive in 
> my 

[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[Darth Mole]

Hello *Mohamed*,

>From my understanding the purpose is similar, but the function is very much 
different. 

Stroll offers bi-directional linking between tiddlers, auto-complete link 
creation within tiddlers, auto-renaming of links when a tiddler title 
changes, and a two column view for side by side viewing.

TiddlyMaps also offers bi-directional linking but the connections are 
displayed in the map tab vs inside the tiddlers themselves. While you can 
show connections between tiddlers based on tags or titles in the maps you 
can also create connections that are only displayed/acknowledge by the map 
plugin. 

Hope this helps and that I'm not too far off the mark.

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-4 mohamed...@hotmail.com wrote:

> how is this differnet from tiddly maps ?
>
> On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:42:27 AM UTC+2 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> So I'm still planning TiddlyWorldBuilder though I haven't had a chance to 
>> work on it this past week. During my planning though I came across 
>> something that I got confused about in the beginning.
>>
>> It seems that when I combined TIddlyStroll (minus the two column view) 
>> and TiddlyMap I'm simply making an updated version of TiddlyRoam. From my 
>> understanding TiddlyRoam originally used TiddlyBlink which was the 
>> predecessor to TiddlyStroll.
>>
>> So at this time, the only two differences between TiddlyWorldBuilder and 
>> TiddlyRoam is that I'm using the updated TiddlyStroll code (minus the two 
>> column view) and have added TiddlyMentat (minus the Engine plugin being 
>> active).
>>
>> Just figured I would put the above out there to ensure proper credit has 
>> been given and to keep everyone in the loop of what I've come across/put 
>> together for TiddlyWorldBuilder.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Roam - https://tiddlyroam.org/
>> Stroll - https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html 
>> Blink - https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html
>> Mentat - https://github.com/theSherwood/Mentat
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[Darth Mole]

Hello *David* and thank you very much for your reply, clarification, and 
contributions (already given and offered)! I will be sure to only reference 
it as Stroll going forward :)

If I may ask, and I feel this is from an ignorance on my part so I 
apologize, what is the purpose of the bi-directional linking? I understand 
the functionality, but from a practice standpoint, is the idea just to 
provide a quick reference/link for convenience (as mentioned Linking in 
Stroll, part 2 from your site which I just now read a second time and 
perhaps did so correctly this time lol)? Or is it also way to create a 
"summary" or "list" of related content? I guess my confusion/over thinking 
is coming from the idea that if you are writing a wiki entry and link to a 
related entry then somewhere in that entry there would end up a link back 
to the original entry. Now I'm saying wiki entry but in this case I mean 
Tiddler.

IE:

Country A
Country A is a vast land composed of [[City A]], [[City B]], and [[City 
C]]. Etc. Etc.

City A
City A is the capital of [[Country A]] and is due north of [[City B]], and 
[[City C]]. Etc. Etc.

City B
City B, is the second largest city of [[Country A]] and can be found south 
of [[City A]] and west of [[City C]].

City C
City C, is the smallest all of [[Country A]]'s cities and can be found 
south of [[City A]] and east of [[City B]].

In order for the bi-directional links of Stroll to work I would need to do 
the above, or at least have a reference like section where I list out the 
associated Tiddler links at least once. But haven't I already created a 
bi-directional link when I linked to/created City A from Country A and then 
referenced Country A in City A?

I could see not having any content in Country A, simply a tiddler with the 
title Country A and then having the related contents of City A, B, and C 
link to [[Country A]] with *Highlights in context* turned on in the Stroll 
settings. But then how do you determine which Tiddler level to use the 
"summary"?

There is also the idea that I'm butchering the tiddler method here and am 
over complicating things by treating TiddlyWiki as something it isn't by 
default and that Stroll turns it into. I hope I haven't been offensive in 
my questions/explanation. Just trying to understand everything better for 
TiddlyWiki use in general, and my own World Builder project.

Thank you in advance for your time!

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 8:54:17 AM UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:

> Yes, TiddlyBlink (blink = bidirectional link) was my first attempt to 
> imitate Roam in TiddlyWiki. Stroll (not 'TiddlyStroll') was my later 
> experiment that improved on it, with mucho help coming from Saq Imtiaz. 
> TiddlyRoam is just someone else's combination of TiddlyBlink + TiddlyMap.
>
> Grab or adapt anything you like from TiddlyBlink or Stroll that you find 
> helpful.
> On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 10:42:27 PM UTC-5 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> So I'm still planning TiddlyWorldBuilder though I haven't had a chance to 
>> work on it this past week. During my planning though I came across 
>> something that I got confused about in the beginning.
>>
>> It seems that when I combined TIddlyStroll (minus the two column view) 
>> and TiddlyMap I'm simply making an updated version of TiddlyRoam. From my 
>> understanding TiddlyRoam originally used TiddlyBlink which was the 
>> predecessor to TiddlyStroll.
>>
>> So at this time, the only two differences between TiddlyWorldBuilder and 
>> TiddlyRoam is that I'm using the updated TiddlyStroll code (minus the two 
>> column view) and have added TiddlyMentat (minus the Engine plugin being 
>> active).
>>
>> Just figured I would put the above out there to ensure proper credit has 
>> been given and to keep everyone in the loop of what I've come across/put 
>> together for TiddlyWorldBuilder.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Roam - https://tiddlyroam.org/
>> Stroll - https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html 
>> Blink - https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html
>> Mentat - https://github.com/theSherwood/Mentat
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[David Gifford]

Yes, TiddlyBlink (blink = bidirectional link) was my first attempt to 
imitate Roam in TiddlyWiki. Stroll (not 'TiddlyStroll') was my later 
experiment that improved on it, with mucho help coming from Saq Imtiaz. 
TiddlyRoam is just someone else's combination of TiddlyBlink + TiddlyMap.

Grab or adapt anything you like from TiddlyBlink or Stroll that you find 
helpful.
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 10:42:27 PM UTC-5 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:

> So I'm still planning TiddlyWorldBuilder though I haven't had a chance to 
> work on it this past week. During my planning though I came across 
> something that I got confused about in the beginning.
>
> It seems that when I combined TIddlyStroll (minus the two column view) and 
> TiddlyMap I'm simply making an updated version of TiddlyRoam. From my 
> understanding TiddlyRoam originally used TiddlyBlink which was the 
> predecessor to TiddlyStroll.
>
> So at this time, the only two differences between TiddlyWorldBuilder and 
> TiddlyRoam is that I'm using the updated TiddlyStroll code (minus the two 
> column view) and have added TiddlyMentat (minus the Engine plugin being 
> active).
>
> Just figured I would put the above out there to ensure proper credit has 
> been given and to keep everyone in the loop of what I've come across/put 
> together for TiddlyWorldBuilder.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Roam - https://tiddlyroam.org/
> Stroll - https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html 
> Blink - https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html
> Mentat - https://github.com/theSherwood/Mentat
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder vs TiddlyRoam

[paulgilbert2000]

how is this differnet from tiddly maps ?

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:42:27 AM UTC+2 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:

> So I'm still planning TiddlyWorldBuilder though I haven't had a chance to 
> work on it this past week. During my planning though I came across 
> something that I got confused about in the beginning.
>
> It seems that when I combined TIddlyStroll (minus the two column view) and 
> TiddlyMap I'm simply making an updated version of TiddlyRoam. From my 
> understanding TiddlyRoam originally used TiddlyBlink which was the 
> predecessor to TiddlyStroll.
>
> So at this time, the only two differences between TiddlyWorldBuilder and 
> TiddlyRoam is that I'm using the updated TiddlyStroll code (minus the two 
> column view) and have added TiddlyMentat (minus the Engine plugin being 
> active).
>
> Just figured I would put the above out there to ensure proper credit has 
> been given and to keep everyone in the loop of what I've come across/put 
> together for TiddlyWorldBuilder.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Roam - https://tiddlyroam.org/
> Stroll - https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html 
> Blink - https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html
> Mentat - https://github.com/theSherwood/Mentat
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[Darth Mole]

I know when I compared the two EditTemplate files between the current 
TiddlyWiki and the one they used in the Mentat demo they were vastly 
different. The new one has a bunch of new code. What I don't know is if the 
one in the Mentar demo is just heavily modified or if that is how it used 
to be. Either way though I don't understand why the volant wrapper is 
placed where it is in the demo so that was throwing me off. 


On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 4:46:49 AM UTC-4 strikke...@gmail.com wrote:

> I also realised the problem with volant as I tried to use 
> http://j.d.volantis.tiddlyspot.com/, Looking at the plugin I see 
> $:/core/ui/ViewTemplate 
> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate. I think the problem could be changes to 
> those templates in the core in later releases of TW?
>
>
> Birthe
>
> fredag den 28. maj 2021 kl. 05.27.24 UTC+2 skrev iamdar...@gmail.com:
>
>> Unfortunately it looks like Volant (at least) doesn't play well with the 
>> most up-to-date TiddlyWiki. For whatever reason that plugin breaks the 
>> edit/new tiddler so that bottom fields can't be utilized and you can't 
>> dismiss, delete or save the Tiddler.
>>
>> I'm still new to the inner workings of TiddlyWiki, though I'm familiar 
>> with HTML and CSS so perhaps I can find a way to fix the plugin. 
>>
>> Unfortunately that means we have hit a small dead end for the time being. 
>> I'll still keep updates coming though.
>>
>> Thanks again everyone!
>>
>> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 11:11:30 PM UTC-4 Darth Mole wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you very much! Appreciate it!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:52:06 PM UTC-4 arunn...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>

 https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/comments/ma4d69/tiddlymap_in_storyriver_instead_of_the_sidebar/


 If you open the tiddlymap in story river as told in this Reddit thread, 
 it might work in mobile also 

 On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:06 AM Darth Mole  wrote:

> Thank you very much! I didn't realize there were two different 
> "projects" for Stroll. I'll have to go back and piece together 
> TiddlyWorldBuilder with the updated files soon. Thanks again!
>
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:37:54 PM UTC-4 saq.i...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Just a heads up that the file at  
>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html is horribly out of 
>> date and not the official link for Stroll.  Instead I believe you want: 
>> https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>


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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[Saq Imtiaz]

This might be helpful:

https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/FjLHSSKcQRA/m/MxuAnO_BAQAJ

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 10:46:49 AM UTC+2 strikke...@gmail.com wrote:

> I also realised the problem with volant as I tried to use 
> http://j.d.volantis.tiddlyspot.com/, Looking at the plugin I see 
> $:/core/ui/ViewTemplate 
> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate. I think the problem could be changes to 
> those templates in the core in later releases of TW?
>
>
> Birthe
>
> fredag den 28. maj 2021 kl. 05.27.24 UTC+2 skrev iamdar...@gmail.com:
>
>> Unfortunately it looks like Volant (at least) doesn't play well with the 
>> most up-to-date TiddlyWiki. For whatever reason that plugin breaks the 
>> edit/new tiddler so that bottom fields can't be utilized and you can't 
>> dismiss, delete or save the Tiddler.
>>
>> I'm still new to the inner workings of TiddlyWiki, though I'm familiar 
>> with HTML and CSS so perhaps I can find a way to fix the plugin. 
>>
>> Unfortunately that means we have hit a small dead end for the time being. 
>> I'll still keep updates coming though.
>>
>> Thanks again everyone!
>>
>> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 11:11:30 PM UTC-4 Darth Mole wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you very much! Appreciate it!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:52:06 PM UTC-4 arunn...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>

 https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/comments/ma4d69/tiddlymap_in_storyriver_instead_of_the_sidebar/


 If you open the tiddlymap in story river as told in this Reddit thread, 
 it might work in mobile also 

 On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:06 AM Darth Mole  wrote:

> Thank you very much! I didn't realize there were two different 
> "projects" for Stroll. I'll have to go back and piece together 
> TiddlyWorldBuilder with the updated files soon. Thanks again!
>
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:37:54 PM UTC-4 saq.i...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Just a heads up that the file at  
>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html is horribly out of 
>> date and not the official link for Stroll.  Instead I believe you want: 
>> https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
>>
>>
>> -- 
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> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fd3aa293-322b-414e-9829-fc6df42937b6n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>


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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[strikke...@gmail.com]

I also realised the problem with volant as I tried to use 
http://j.d.volantis.tiddlyspot.com/, Looking at the plugin I see 
$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate 
and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate. I think the problem could be changes to those 
templates in the core in later releases of TW?


Birthe

fredag den 28. maj 2021 kl. 05.27.24 UTC+2 skrev iamdar...@gmail.com:

> Unfortunately it looks like Volant (at least) doesn't play well with the 
> most up-to-date TiddlyWiki. For whatever reason that plugin breaks the 
> edit/new tiddler so that bottom fields can't be utilized and you can't 
> dismiss, delete or save the Tiddler.
>
> I'm still new to the inner workings of TiddlyWiki, though I'm familiar 
> with HTML and CSS so perhaps I can find a way to fix the plugin. 
>
> Unfortunately that means we have hit a small dead end for the time being. 
> I'll still keep updates coming though.
>
> Thanks again everyone!
>
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 11:11:30 PM UTC-4 Darth Mole wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much! Appreciate it!
>>
>> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:52:06 PM UTC-4 arunn...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/comments/ma4d69/tiddlymap_in_storyriver_instead_of_the_sidebar/
>>>
>>>
>>> If you open the tiddlymap in story river as told in this Reddit thread, 
>>> it might work in mobile also 
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:06 AM Darth Mole  wrote:
>>>
 Thank you very much! I didn't realize there were two different 
 "projects" for Stroll. I'll have to go back and piece together 
 TiddlyWorldBuilder with the updated files soon. Thanks again!

 On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:37:54 PM UTC-4 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just a heads up that the file at  
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html is horribly out of 
> date and not the official link for Stroll.  Instead I believe you want: 
> https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
>
>
> -- 
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 .

>>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[Darth Mole]

Unfortunately it looks like Volant (at least) doesn't play well with the 
most up-to-date TiddlyWiki. For whatever reason that plugin breaks the 
edit/new tiddler so that bottom fields can't be utilized and you can't 
dismiss, delete or save the Tiddler.

I'm still new to the inner workings of TiddlyWiki, though I'm familiar with 
HTML and CSS so perhaps I can find a way to fix the plugin. 

Unfortunately that means we have hit a small dead end for the time being. 
I'll still keep updates coming though.

Thanks again everyone!

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 11:11:30 PM UTC-4 Darth Mole wrote:

> Thank you very much! Appreciate it!
>
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:52:06 PM UTC-4 arunn...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/comments/ma4d69/tiddlymap_in_storyriver_instead_of_the_sidebar/
>>
>>
>> If you open the tiddlymap in story river as told in this Reddit thread, 
>> it might work in mobile also 
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:06 AM Darth Mole  wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you very much! I didn't realize there were two different 
>>> "projects" for Stroll. I'll have to go back and piece together 
>>> TiddlyWorldBuilder with the updated files soon. Thanks again!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:37:54 PM UTC-4 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Just a heads up that the file at  
 https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html is horribly out of date 
 and not the official link for Stroll.  Instead I believe you want: 
 https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html


 -- 
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>>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fd3aa293-322b-414e-9829-fc6df42937b6n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[Darth Mole]

Thank you very much! Appreciate it!

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:52:06 PM UTC-4 arunn...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/comments/ma4d69/tiddlymap_in_storyriver_instead_of_the_sidebar/
>
>
> If you open the tiddlymap in story river as told in this Reddit thread, it 
> might work in mobile also 
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:06 AM Darth Mole  wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much! I didn't realize there were two different "projects" 
>> for Stroll. I'll have to go back and piece together TiddlyWorldBuilder with 
>> the updated files soon. Thanks again!
>>
>> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:37:54 PM UTC-4 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Just a heads up that the file at  
>>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html is horribly out of date 
>>> and not the official link for Stroll.  Instead I believe you want: 
>>> https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fd3aa293-322b-414e-9829-fc6df42937b6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[arun babu]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/comments/ma4d69/tiddlymap_in_storyriver_instead_of_the_sidebar/


If you open the tiddlymap in story river as told in this Reddit thread, it
might work in mobile also

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:06 AM Darth Mole  wrote:

> Thank you very much! I didn't realize there were two different "projects"
> for Stroll. I'll have to go back and piece together TiddlyWorldBuilder with
> the updated files soon. Thanks again!
>
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:37:54 PM UTC-4 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Just a heads up that the file at
>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html is horribly out of date
>> and not the official link for Stroll.  Instead I believe you want:
>> https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
>>
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[Darth Mole]

Thank you very much! I didn't realize there were two different "projects" 
for Stroll. I'll have to go back and piece together TiddlyWorldBuilder with 
the updated files soon. Thanks again!

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:37:54 PM UTC-4 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just a heads up that the file at  
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html is horribly out of date 
> and not the official link for Stroll.  Instead I believe you want: 
> https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[Saq Imtiaz]

Just a heads up that the file at  
https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html is horribly out of date and 
not the official link for Stroll.  Instead I believe you 
want: https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html


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[tw5] Re: TiddlyWorldBuilder

[Ste]

Looking good. I'll try and have a play on a big screen tomorrow. 
Buttons/scrolls don't seem to work on mobile! 

On Thursday, 27 May 2021 at 06:11:45 UTC+1 iamdar...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> So this is still a work in progress but wanted to thank the community for 
> all their help up to this point by showing you all what I've put together.
>
> TiddlyWorldBuilder currently combines..
>
>- The linking capabilities/concepts of Stroll (
>https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/stories.html) minus the two column 
>view (replaced by Mentat floating Tiddlers below).
>- The concept maps thought process/features by TiddlyMap (
>http://tiddlymap.org/).
>- The Tiddler presentation capabilities of Mentat (
>https://thesherwood.github.io/Mentat/) minus the Engine plugin 
>(disabled it) that was used to create the HUD in Mentat as that was 
>breaking functionality.
>- An adjusted Tabs area by modifying the underlying Core tiddlers, 
>their tags, and fields.
>   - All removed tabs were moved to beneath the "More" tab.
>   - Added a "Temps" (for Template until I get an icon) tab with links 
>   that will create new Tiddlers based on content templates.* (I have 
>   created three of the four templates listed but don't have them in this 
>   particular Tiddly file yet.)*
>
>
> Current Caveats
>
>- Need to have a Story Window (from Mentat) open before creating a new 
>Tiddler or else it will throw an error.
>- For some reason when the Mentat Story Visualization is turned on, 
>which it needs to be in order to have the floating Tiddlers, you have to 
>Right click in some fields in order to put the focus in them to edit them 
>in New and Existing Tiddlers.
>
>
>
> Just to clarify; I haven't built any plugins or modified any of the 
> existing plugins. I've just been piecing certain things together to create 
> a solution for a need. I included the links to the various projects to 
> ensure proper credit is given :)
>
> Hopefully by doing all the above and calling the solution a particular 
> name I didn't break any rules or take part in a taboo. If I did, I 
> apologize!
>
> Would love feedback as well!
>

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