Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[Alex Hough]

Josiah,

How about building on top of SheepyWiki [1] and TweetWeaver [2]

TiddlyTweeter can have a column, expanding on his /her Tweets

In SheepyWiki I have built on a pre-release and expanded it prioritising
cloning as main way. There are various versions SheepyWiki1, SheepyWiki2
... get the picture. Each is built on the top of the previous, all junk is
included, minimal deletions. A bricolage.

I choose Dolly the sheep as an icon to make connections to represent
"wandering",  "sheep paths" and "dolly the cloned sheep"

How about this for a suitabley messy process: just start writing on top of
the online version, create your content, link it in then publish it to
github pages. Contributors can write on top of that, or drag and drop
tiddlers onto their own.

To be a zine process, it needs to demonstrate speed and DIY ingenuity above
all. Punk non prog

I guess it has to TiddlyZine. Or maybe TiddlySkunkWorks -- a fanzine for
version XXX pre-release

evoking a skunkworks would highlight the fast and cutting edge aspects of
the TW project

Alex




Alex

[1] https://alexhough.github.io/SheepyWiki7.html
[2] https://alexhough.github.io/TweetWeaver.html

On 21 November 2017 at 11:28, @TiddlyTweeter 
wrote:

> I think the idea of a TIMED FANZINE is really excellent.
>
> If you go ahead you can delegate me a topic.
>
> J, x
>
> AlexHough wrote:
>>
>>  In the past I have tried to write a fanzine to accompany a new version.
>> The idea is simple
>> wrtite the fanzine on a prerelease. report on  google groups activity,
>> twitter activity. Each zine is an edition relating the the version was in
>> pre-release. Once released, a new issue of the zine would be started.
>>
>> I am willing to give it a shot of there are any other takers.
>>
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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I think the idea of a TIMED FANZINE is really excellent.

If you go ahead you can delegate me a topic.

J, x

AlexHough wrote:
>
>  In the past I have tried to write a fanzine to accompany a new version. 
> The idea is simple
> wrtite the fanzine on a prerelease. report on  google groups activity, 
> twitter activity. Each zine is an edition relating the the version was in 
> pre-release. Once released, a new issue of the zine would be started.
>
> I am willing to give it a shot of there are any other takers.
>

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[Alex Hough]

 In the past I have tried to write a fanzine to accompany a new version.
The idea is simple


wrtite the fanzine on a prerelease. report on  google groups activity,
twitter activity. Each zine is an edition relating the the version was in
pre-release. Once released, a new issue of the zine would be started.

I am willing to give it a shot of there are any other takers.

Alex

On 20 November 2017 at 16:49, @TiddlyTweeter 
wrote:

> Ciao Ste
>
> I looked at IFTTT. No interface with Google Groups that I can find.
>
> In any case you'd have a problem with the volume. What one needs is a
> heavily filtered version that concentrates on major, working innovations
> and stuff that adds to documentation. Most of the stuff written here is
> ephemeral steps ... important at the time of creation, but of no long
> lasting value.
>
> Lacking moderated tagging/classification on initial creation of posts on
> GG I think the human eye will be needed to make judegments. So its
> selective recycling needed, I think. I mean, a lot of my own posts I
> seriously wouldn't want to read as history :-). Riz, within limits of time,
> has done pretty well as a largely one man band on Reddit teasing out quite
> a lot of the good things but it is obviously not enough.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
> Ste Wilson wrote:
>>
>> I keep meaning to look but is there an IFTTT type solution to auto
>> populate Reddit or something every time there is a post here...
>
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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Ste

I looked at IFTTT. No interface with Google Groups that I can find.

In any case you'd have a problem with the volume. What one needs is a 
heavily filtered version that concentrates on major, working innovations 
and stuff that adds to documentation. Most of the stuff written here is 
ephemeral steps ... important at the time of creation, but of no long 
lasting value.

Lacking moderated tagging/classification on initial creation of posts on GG 
I think the human eye will be needed to make judegments. So its selective 
recycling needed, I think. I mean, a lot of my own posts I seriously 
wouldn't want to read as history :-). Riz, within limits of time, has done 
pretty well as a largely one man band on Reddit teasing out quite a lot of 
the good things but it is obviously not enough.

Best wishes
Josiah

Ste Wilson wrote:
>
> I keep meaning to look but is there an IFTTT type solution to auto 
> populate Reddit or something every time there is a post here... 

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[Ste Wilson]

I keep meaning to look but is there an IFTTT type solution to auto populate 
Reddit or something every time there is a post here... 

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[Alex Hough]

perhaps the solution is in the "people space" about helping the
community develop its shared set of skills with a set of community led
purposes in mind.

I am a great believer in facilitation, i think it needs to come from outside


Alex

On 20 November 2017 at 13:33, @TiddlyTweeter 
wrote:

> Cari tutti, & yeah Alex & Birthe.
>
> I am sure you are right that the serendipitous freedom in GG, combined
> with the nice people here, is a major factor in inertia to keep it. And a
> good one.
>
> AlexHough wrote:
>
>> I think we need to be careful about making changes, the unintended
>> consequence of using google groups is that we get interactions which a more
>> streamlined system would design out.
>
>
> Birthe C wrote:
>
>> Exactly!
>>
>
> On the OTHER hand here is a *swamp of Lost History*. I'm forever trying
> to find things to reference in order to reply to people ... often I give up
> and don't reply. I CAN'T FIND STUFF that's anything more than a few days
> old.
>
> Replies like "Mat did that about three months ago" without a link are
> about as useful as a head without the chicken. You got nothing to cook. If
> that is tough for me its a total turn-off for a newbie.
>
> IF there were a PARALLEL GG that a full-time archivist were
> tagging/logging it would really help. What Riz has done on Reddit is
> part-way there, but too much for one person to pull off fully.
>
> I did think in a mad way that a Twitter feed might be able to do the
> MINIMAL missing piece sustainably. Its still in my mind.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Cari tutti, & yeah Alex & Birthe. 

I am sure you are right that the serendipitous freedom in GG, combined with 
the nice people here, is a major factor in inertia to keep it. And a good 
one.

AlexHough wrote:

> I think we need to be careful about making changes, the unintended 
> consequence of using google groups is that we get interactions which a more 
> streamlined system would design out.


Birthe C wrote:

> Exactly! 
>

On the OTHER hand here is a *swamp of Lost History*. I'm forever trying to 
find things to reference in order to reply to people ... often I give up 
and don't reply. I CAN'T FIND STUFF that's anything more than a few days 
old.

Replies like "Mat did that about three months ago" without a link are about 
as useful as a head without the chicken. You got nothing to cook. If that 
is tough for me its a total turn-off for a newbie.

IF there were a PARALLEL GG that a full-time archivist were tagging/logging 
it would really help. What Riz has done on Reddit is part-way there, but 
too much for one person to pull off fully.

I did think in a mad way that a Twitter feed might be able to do the 
MINIMAL missing piece sustainably. Its still in my mind.

Best wishes
Josiah

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[Alex Hough]

Do we need a TiddlySkunkWorks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunkworks_project



On 20 November 2017 at 08:13, Alex Hough  wrote:

> I think we need to be careful about making changes, the unintended
> consequence of using google groups is that we get interactions which a more
> streamlined system would design out.
>
> We may find that the social flavour might change.
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Thursday, 16 November 2017, Lost Admin  wrote:
>
>> In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is
>> proper forums instead of Google's attempt to replace nntp. We also probably
>> need a wiki that can be edited by mutliple people.
>>
>> Forums would allow categorization of discussions easier.
>>
>> A wiki with multiple editors would allow different people to manage
>> different aspects of documentation such as end-user guides, developer
>> guides, dedicated guides to each of the 20 or so savers, etc.
>>
>> But to do the above would require funding for hosting.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 9:25:09 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> Ciao Jeremy
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>
>>> I was being more prodding than helpful.
>>>
>>> FRANKLY, though *GG is looking worse and worse over time*.
>>>
>>> Our major problem is it CANNOT cope with the sheer complexity of TW as
>>> it evolves.
>>>
>>> Right now is a very good phase in TW's history to know that, to see that
>>> clearly.
>>>
>>> I think our GG approach is seriously BLUNTING (a) its use; (b)
>>> understanding of it.
>>>
>>> The Sixteen Plus ways of saving TW -- well you are NOT gonna be able to
>>> find all those on Google. Yeah TW .com gives access but TO a disorganised
>>> mess.
>>>
>>> Can't we do better?
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Josiah
>>>
>>> Jeremy Ruston wrote:

 WhatsApp is good for chat but it’s ephemeral: it doesn’t off permalinks
 or searchability. It might have a role alongside this group, but as a
 replacement I think it's a non-starter.

 --
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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[Alex Hough]

I think we need to be careful about making changes, the unintended
consequence of using google groups is that we get interactions which a more
streamlined system would design out.

We may find that the social flavour might change.

Alex

On Thursday, 16 November 2017, Lost Admin  wrote:

> In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is
> proper forums instead of Google's attempt to replace nntp. We also probably
> need a wiki that can be edited by mutliple people.
>
> Forums would allow categorization of discussions easier.
>
> A wiki with multiple editors would allow different people to manage
> different aspects of documentation such as end-user guides, developer
> guides, dedicated guides to each of the 20 or so savers, etc.
>
> But to do the above would require funding for hosting.
>
> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 9:25:09 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Jeremy
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> I was being more prodding than helpful.
>>
>> FRANKLY, though *GG is looking worse and worse over time*.
>>
>> Our major problem is it CANNOT cope with the sheer complexity of TW as it
>> evolves.
>>
>> Right now is a very good phase in TW's history to know that, to see that
>> clearly.
>>
>> I think our GG approach is seriously BLUNTING (a) its use; (b)
>> understanding of it.
>>
>> The Sixteen Plus ways of saving TW -- well you are NOT gonna be able to
>> find all those on Google. Yeah TW .com gives access but TO a disorganised
>> mess.
>>
>> Can't we do better?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Josiah
>>
>> Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>>
>>> WhatsApp is good for chat but it’s ephemeral: it doesn’t off permalinks
>>> or searchability. It might have a role alongside this group, but as a
>>> replacement I think it's a non-starter.
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[TonyM]

Josiah,

I would host for free, or a sponsor add.

I have being professionally involved in growing an online community from 
2,000 to around 45,000 in enterprise social, yammer

I would consider something like Yammer, myself which is both a chat, 
microblog and long running conversation platform, file and groups, mentions 
etc... however any new platform needs every member to adopt.
I may even be in a position to offer a yammer network as well.

The trick is to propose an alternative and invite select people to 
participate, building a team of proponents. 

They will have to champion adoption and initially mine existing channels to 
republish content until economies of scale and content levels make it self 
sustaining.

Not withstanding this we should maximise the use of tiddlywiki itself, 
"drink out own campaign" (nicer than dog food)

Regards
Tony

 

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I T   A P P E A R S   T H ET E L E G R A P H   I S   S T I L L   W O R 
K I N G.   S T O P.

Mark S. wrote:
>
> Hmm, doesn't look dead:
>
> https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-is-telegram-different-from-whatsapp
>
> Dot-org, so hopefully not a company.
>
> Another interesting FAQ: "Will you have ads? Or sell my data? Or steal my 
> beloved and enslave my children?"
>
> Mark
>
> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 12:28:40 PM UTC-8, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Mark S., PMario & Lost Admin
>>
>> PMario in humour mode wrote ...
>>
>>> I'm on Telegram. So not for me.
>>>
>>
>> Lost Admin wrote:
>>
>>> ... In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is 
>>> proper forums...
>>>
>>
>> Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> ... I'm sure we wouldn't want to re-invent every wheel.
>>>
>>
>> IMO Google Groups is a PIT of losing your history almost before you made 
>> it.
>>
>> I'll wait a bit on PMario getting beyond the Telegram which died in 1996 
>> as far as I know. Though there are rumours some corporation stole the name 
>> recently.
>>
>> Right. Lets not re-invent the wheel. Just have one :-)
>>
>> Josiah, x  
>>
>

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Hmm, doesn't look dead:

https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-is-telegram-different-from-whatsapp

Dot-org, so hopefully not a company.

Another interesting FAQ: "Will you have ads? Or sell my data? Or steal my 
beloved and enslave my children?"

Mark

On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 12:28:40 PM UTC-8, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S., PMario & Lost Admin
>
> PMario in humour mode wrote ...
>
>> I'm on Telegram. So not for me.
>>
>
> Lost Admin wrote:
>
>> ... In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is 
>> proper forums...
>>
>
> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> ... I'm sure we wouldn't want to re-invent every wheel.
>>
>
> IMO Google Groups is a PIT of losing your history almost before you made 
> it.
>
> I'll wait a bit on PMario getting beyond the Telegram which died in 1996 
> as far as I know. Though there are rumours some corporation stole the name 
> recently.
>
> Right. Lets not re-invent the wheel. Just have one :-)
>
> Josiah, x  
>

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S., PMario & Lost Admin

PMario in humour mode wrote ...

> I'm on Telegram. So not for me.
>

Lost Admin wrote:

> ... In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is 
> proper forums...
>

Mark S. wrote:
>
> ... I'm sure we wouldn't want to re-invent every wheel.
>

IMO Google Groups is a PIT of losing your history almost before you made it.

I'll wait a bit on PMario getting beyond the Telegram which died in 1996 as 
far as I know. Though there are rumours some corporation stole the name 
recently.

Right. Lets not re-invent the wheel. Just have one :-)

Josiah, x  

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

If we had a wiki would it be legal to import massive amounts of data from 
Tiddlywiki.com ? I'm sure we wouldn't want to re-invent every wheel.

Mark

On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 6:48:51 AM UTC-8, Lost Admin wrote:
>
> In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is 
> proper forums instead of Google's attempt to replace nntp. We also probably 
> need a wiki that can be edited by mutliple people.
>
> Forums would allow categorization of discussions easier.
>
> A wiki with multiple editors would allow different people to manage 
> different aspects of documentation such as end-user guides, developer 
> guides, dedicated guides to each of the 20 or so savers, etc.
>
> But to do the above would require funding for hosting. 
>
> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 9:25:09 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Jeremy
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> I was being more prodding than helpful.
>>
>> FRANKLY, though *GG is looking worse and worse over time*.
>>
>> Our major problem is it CANNOT cope with the sheer complexity of TW as it 
>> evolves.
>>
>> Right now is a very good phase in TW's history to know that, to see that 
>> clearly. 
>>
>> I think our GG approach is seriously BLUNTING (a) its use; (b) 
>> understanding of it.
>>
>> The Sixteen Plus ways of saving TW -- well you are NOT gonna be able to 
>> find all those on Google. Yeah TW .com gives access but TO a disorganised 
>> mess.
>>
>> Can't we do better?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Josiah
>>
>> Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>>
>>> WhatsApp is good for chat but it’s ephemeral: it doesn’t off permalinks 
>>> or searchability. It might have a role alongside this group, but as a 
>>> replacement I think it's a non-starter.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[Lost Admin]

In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is proper 
forums instead of Google's attempt to replace nntp. We also probably need a 
wiki that can be edited by mutliple people.

Forums would allow categorization of discussions easier.

A wiki with multiple editors would allow different people to manage 
different aspects of documentation such as end-user guides, developer 
guides, dedicated guides to each of the 20 or so savers, etc.

But to do the above would require funding for hosting. 

On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 9:25:09 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Jeremy
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> I was being more prodding than helpful.
>
> FRANKLY, though *GG is looking worse and worse over time*.
>
> Our major problem is it CANNOT cope with the sheer complexity of TW as it 
> evolves.
>
> Right now is a very good phase in TW's history to know that, to see that 
> clearly. 
>
> I think our GG approach is seriously BLUNTING (a) its use; (b) 
> understanding of it.
>
> The Sixteen Plus ways of saving TW -- well you are NOT gonna be able to 
> find all those on Google. Yeah TW .com gives access but TO a disorganised 
> mess.
>
> Can't we do better?
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
> Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>
>> WhatsApp is good for chat but it’s ephemeral: it doesn’t off permalinks 
>> or searchability. It might have a role alongside this group, but as a 
>> replacement I think it's a non-starter.
>>
>>

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy

Thanks for the reply.

I was being more prodding than helpful.

FRANKLY, though *GG is looking worse and worse over time*.

Our major problem is it CANNOT cope with the sheer complexity of TW as it 
evolves.

Right now is a very good phase in TW's history to know that, to see that 
clearly. 

I think our GG approach is seriously BLUNTING (a) its use; (b) 
understanding of it.

The Sixteen Plus ways of saving TW -- well you are NOT gonna be able to 
find all those on Google. Yeah TW .com gives access but TO a disorganised 
mess.

Can't we do better?

Best wishes
Josiah

Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> WhatsApp is good for chat but it’s ephemeral: it doesn’t off permalinks or 
> searchability. It might have a role alongside this group, but as a 
> replacement I think it's a non-starter.
>
>

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Re: [tw] Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[Jeremy Ruston]

> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> This group's Modus Operandi looks somewhat dated.

WhatsApp is good for chat but it’s ephemeral: it doesn’t off permalinks or 
searchability. It might have a role alongside this group, but as a replacement 
I think it's a non-starter.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> Best wishes
> Josiah
> 
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