[time-nuts] Nano Gyroscope

2010-10-06 Thread Gerald Molenkamp
Hi All, Time, GPS and movement plays a big part in most discussions. Each day brings something new and fantastic in the world of science, it just makes you think where it will take us. http://www.physorg.com/news205500249.html Regards Gerald Vk3GJM

Re: [time-nuts] Nano Gyroscope

2010-10-06 Thread mike cook
Le 06/10/2010 08:07, Gerald Molenkamp a écrit : Hi All, Time, GPS and movement plays a big part in most discussions. Each day brings something new and fantastic in the world of science, it just makes you think where it will take us. The naivity of scientists amazes me. The guy says If you

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread Henry Hallam
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, How far could you get passing time around from amateur station to station with a two way handshake system that establishes the instantaneous delay on the two way path and assumes a delay of half that value? A time

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

2010-10-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 60aa6fcf-cf71-4e4c-a7cb-aab9f11a2...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes: The other answer is that DSP was not really available when the original waveforms were developed. A modern system would not have a must be able to work with manual delay lines and an oscilloscope requirement on it. Well,

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The issue would be just how well you know the delays. Multi path even in a ground wave environment sets some fairly nasty limits on this. Bob On Oct 6, 2010, at 12:04 AM, Neville Michie wrote: Hi, How far could you get passing time around from amateur station to station with a two way

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread jimlux
Neville Michie wrote: Hi, How far could you get passing time around from amateur station to station with a two way handshake system that establishes the instantaneous delay on the two way path and assumes a delay of half that value? A time relay. The stations would need their own short term

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread jimlux
Henry Hallam wrote: On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, How far could you get passing time around from amateur station to station with a two way handshake system that establishes the instantaneous delay on the two way path and assumes a delay of half

[time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread Arthur Dent
Jim-“You could look at the data from things like OTH-B radar (Over the Horizon-Backscatter) to get a feel for this.” Zoom in on N45° 10.300 W069° 51.600 on GoogleEarth. I’ve driven to this area on some of the dirt roads that run through this area. As I understand it, this project isn’t dead,

Re: [time-nuts] Nano Gyroscope

2010-10-06 Thread Brooke Clarke
Hi Gerald: It turns out the the long term drift spec of a gyro depends (using a large power law, far from linear) on it's volume. See: http://www.prc68.com/I/Sensors.shtml#Gyroscopic I expect that one that can fit into the head of a pin will drift much more than 1000 deg/hour. Have Fun,

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread jimlux
Arthur Dent wrote: Jim-“You could look at the data from things like OTH-B radar (Over the Horizon-Backscatter) to get a feel for this.” Zoom in on N45° 10.300 W069° 51.600 on GoogleEarth. I’ve driven to this area on some of the dirt roads that run through this area. As I understand it, this

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread Brooke Clarke
Hi Jim: I'm in Ukiah, Calif. where one of the Lattitude observatories is located. Finding the Lattitude was a much harder problem than finding the Longitude and the five Lattitude observatories (all at 39 degrees 08 minutes North Latitude) were operational for almost a century. They used a

Re: [time-nuts] Nano Gyroscope

2010-10-06 Thread Bill Hawkins
Hi Brooke, Looks like the physorg paper is talking about an optical rate gyro. Don't think the drift rate matters, since position is not measured. Yes, your reference gives bad numbers for a fiber optic rate gyro, but the physorg paper claims a device that works. Something is out of joint.

Re: [time-nuts] Nano Gyroscope

2010-10-06 Thread J. Forster
A main use for Rate Gyros is in stabilizing missiles in yaw, pitch and sometimes roll. -John === Hi Brooke, Looks like the physorg paper is talking about an optical rate gyro. Don't think the drift rate matters, since position is not measured. Yes, your reference gives bad

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread Jason Rabel
Since we are talking about defunct systems What was the time accuracy from the GOES satellites when they were transmitting time? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] Nano Gyroscope

2010-10-06 Thread Brooke Clarke
Hi Bill: I thought the key idea was that the long term drift rate of a gyro is independent of the mechanism. The modern MEMS gyros have a very poor long term drift and so are only suitable for use over short time spans. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com Bill Hawkins wrote: Hi

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread Eric Garner
Also, I know that some of the TRANSIT birds are still up there, but were repurposed. Does anyone know if they still are transmiting? Sent from my Banana Jr. mobile device On Oct 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, Jason Rabel ja...@extremeoverclocking.com wrote: Since we are talking about defunct

Re: [time-nuts] Alternative to GPS?

2010-10-06 Thread paul swed
The GOES xponder if on was still good. Just no sig. Boy I think it was millisecond range as I recall. Believe it was truly a time of Day transport. Though I think you could get pretty good accuracy over long periods of time. They may have used it to xmit freq info. I used it only for time. Beat

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

2010-10-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 10/05/2010 11:52 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, the next layer to this onion is the antenna. At 100KC your antenna is 35X smaller than it is on 80 meters foot for foot. In other words, your 100' tall vertical on 80 equates to a3 foot tall antenna at 100 KC. QRP on 80 with a 3' transmit

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

2010-10-06 Thread Jim Lux
The coil allowed an ok match, but an antenna that is a tiny fraction of a wavelength is going to be inefficient from ohmic loss in the antenna. You could use a superconductor, but that brings another set of problems (matching networks that also have low loss and can adapt to the changing

[time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

2010-10-06 Thread Perry Sandeen
Gents, Wrote: Its not just diurnal shift it plain old jumps anytime. Have been monitoring for periods from the east coast using both a Tracor 577 and 2 X HP vlf117 rcvrs. All kinds of stuff occur. Reply: That’s fine equipment that you have. What I don’t know but have to find out if the

[time-nuts] WWVB Contd.

2010-10-06 Thread Perry Sandeen
Gents, Wrote: All of this design and mod info is wonderful and great to fill an engineering project workbook. Reply: True. I have all the precision oscillators I need. Four Rubidiums and two high stability crystal units. Four nice sized salvaged HP cases that have working power supplies.

[time-nuts] Calibrating local standards

2010-10-06 Thread Perry Sandeen
Gents, Wrote: Have you ever tried to adjust a local standard to better than 1 in 10E7 using WWV or CHU? Also wrote: I have three Rb standards to go along with my two Thunderbolts. Wrote a reply: And which one do you believe? If any? My experience is this: Since all four of my rubidium

[time-nuts] Possible HP 10811 instability clue

2010-10-06 Thread Perry Sandeen
Gents, Some on this list mentioned having had less-than-optimal performance with their HP 10811 series oscillators. James Miller G3RUH made a slight mention of optimizing performance by readjusting the set point temperature in one of his phase detector articles. He said though time consuming

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

2010-10-06 Thread paul swed
Actually building a loran recvr is not that hard if its only purpose is timing/frequency. I lived in Michigan at the time and used the great lakes chain. You only had to pick the strongest single station. So essentially a simple front end and filters a bit like wwvb but much broader band. No

[time-nuts] Schematics needed

2010-10-06 Thread Perry Sandeen
Gents, I need the RF amp schematic and power supply schematic for my Austron 2100F Loran C receiver. Most needed it the RF amp boards. I really don't want to buy the CD for $35 as it's not cost effective. Please reply off list if you could help. Regards, Perrier

Re: [time-nuts] Possible HP 10811 instability clue

2010-10-06 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
Regardless of isolated anecdotal data on one oscillator, it is probably not advisable to change the set point. The majority of 10811 crystals do NOT have a turnover, only a region of low tempco around 82 degrees. Instead of that, change the circuit to B-mode and optimize the heat between the two

[time-nuts] 60kHz shielded loop antenna

2010-10-06 Thread Dick Moore
Hi, nuts -- I got my new camera, so here's the URL, where the pix are, of the shielded loop antenna for the Dymec DY-5842. Sorry about the pix file sizes -- not being real familiar with the new shooter, I forgot to set resolution to something web-friendly and the little thing takes 12Mp pix. I