On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 06:31:01 -0800
Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
Recently, I've been looking at the variations of some human clocks which
are millenia old: Galileo used his pulse as a timer for his famous roll
balls down a ramp experimenet. I thought that some time-nuts might be
Servus Wolfgang,
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 10:32:42 +0100
Wolfgang Wallner wolfgang-wall...@gmx.at wrote:
At my institute (TU Vienna, Computer Engineering) there has been a
bachelor thesis which dealt with simulation of IEEE 1588 in OMNeT++ (a
discrete event simulator).
But the assumptions where
Hi Magnus,
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 17:42:25 +0100
Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
When I look in the data sheets of oscillator that I find on the internet,
they only have precision estimates like 1ppm or 1ppb, but no detailed allan
variance graphs.
Yes. Because in the
On 12/08/2013 11:46 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
Hi Magnus,
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 17:42:25 +0100
Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
When I look in the data sheets of oscillator that I find on the internet,
they only have precision estimates like 1ppm or 1ppb, but no detailed allan
and precipirate energent cesarian section.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an ATT 4G LTE smartphone
Original message
From: Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net
Date: 11/30/2013 6:41 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] simulation of interconnected clocks
On 12/01/2013 01:36 PM, paul.alfille wrote:
Heart rate depends on a feedback circuit through the autonomic nervous
system. Microvascular disease (diabetes), denervation (heart transplant), and
drugs can all alter the variabilility.
There actaully is a large literatuee in fetal heart rate
So, are we any closer to finding the body oscillator that lets us wake
up just before the alarm goes off?
Or could it be that we are awakened by the alarm but recognition of it
is delayed?
Bill Hawkins (currently dealing with a low, irregular heartbeat)
Hello,
thanks a lot for all your feedback (also in the other threads)!
It will take some time to read reed through all your recommendations :)
On 11/28/2013 08:18 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:35:33 +0100
Wolfgang Wallner wolfgang-wall...@gmx.at wrote:
I'm interested in
Hi Wolfgang,
On 11/30/2013 10:32 AM, Wolfgang Wallner wrote:
Hello,
thanks a lot for all your feedback (also in the other threads)!
It will take some time to read reed through all your recommendations :)
On 11/28/2013 08:18 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:35:33 +0100
On 11/30/13 2:15 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
Jim,
Could you just replay real data instead of trying to generate
simulated data? There's plenty of storage with Arduino or SD card
shields.
Attached is frequency and ADEV of my heart beat for 10 hours. You
could do the same. In this case the flicker
On 11/30/13 2:15 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
Jim,
Could you just replay real data instead of trying to generate simulated data?
There's plenty of storage with Arduino or SD card shields.
Attached is frequency and ADEV of my heart beat for 10 hours. You could do the
same. In this case the flicker
t...@leapsecond.com said:
Attached is frequency and ADEV of my heart beat for 10 hours.
Neat. What did you use to collect the raw data?
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On 11/30/13 5:33 PM, Hal Murray wrote:
t...@leapsecond.com said:
Attached is frequency and ADEV of my heart beat for 10 hours.
Neat. What did you use to collect the raw data?
There's a few Arduino/Sparkfun/Adafruit widgets out there that receive
the signals from off the shelf Polar
Neat. What did you use to collect the raw data?
Hi Hal,
The pulse data came from a sports chest-strap heart rate monitor, made by Polar.
See the 10^-1 page of the PDF at http://leapsecond.com/ten/
There are two data formats, non-coded (T34) and coded (T31). More info:
Hello Wolfgang,
lots of interesting reading about oscillator noise:
http://rubiola.org/index.html
There are also some phase noise related publications from Ulrich L. Rohde:
On 11/28/13 1:35 AM, Wolfgang Wallner wrote:
Hello Time-Nuts community,
I'm interested in the simulation of oscillator noise (especially in discrete
event simulators).
PS: When I use the word oscillator I mean the cheap quartz oscillators as found
in typical consumer electronic stuff.
PPS:
Ciao,
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 14:03:06 +0100
Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote:
http://horology.jpl.nasa.gov/papers/FlfmSimPtti.pdf
This host has ceased to exist. Can you tell us the title of the
paper and the names of its authors?
Attila Kinali
--
1.) Write
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:35:33 +0100
Wolfgang Wallner wolfgang-wall...@gmx.at wrote:
I'm interested in the simulation of oscillator noise (especially in discrete
event simulators).
I came across this topic as part of the literature research for my master's
thesis, and have to admit that I
Wolfgang,
A colleague of mine wrote this simulator based on a multirate filterbank:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?tp=arnumber=5461653queryText%3Dm+brooker+phase+noise
Since you are in the academia I'd assume you'll be able to access it?
Cheers,
Stephan.
On 28 November
Unfortunately that was a contribution from Magnus in 2010
(see www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2010-April/046932.html )
that I have simply reported without verifying the link and found that
link unusable after sending the message. My best guess is this:
On 11/29/13 5:56 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote:
Unfortunately that was a contribution from Magnus in 2010
(see www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2010-April/046932.html )
that I have simply reported without verifying the link and found that
link unusable after sending the message. My best guess is
On 11/29/2013 04:11 PM, Jim Lux wrote:
On 11/29/13 5:56 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote:
Unfortunately that was a contribution from Magnus in 2010
(see www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2010-April/046932.html )
that I have simply reported without verifying the link and found that
link unusable
On 11/28/2013 08:18 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:35:33 +0100
Wolfgang Wallner wolfgang-wall...@gmx.at wrote:
I'm interested in the simulation of oscillator noise (especially in discrete
event simulators).
I came across this topic as part of the literature research for my
On 11/29/13 8:50 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:11 PM, Jim Lux wrote:
On 11/29/13 5:56 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote:
Unfortunately that was a contribution from Magnus in 2010
(see www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2010-April/046932.html )
that I have simply reported without
Jim,
On 11/29/2013 07:27 PM, Jim Lux wrote:
On 11/29/13 8:50 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 11/29/2013 04:11 PM, Jim Lux wrote:
On 11/29/13 5:56 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote:
Unfortunately that was a contribution from Magnus in 2010
(see www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2010-April/046932.html )
Hello Time-Nuts community,
I'm interested in the simulation of oscillator noise (especially in discrete
event simulators).
I came across this topic as part of the literature research for my master's
thesis, and have to admit that I really underestimated how complex this topic
is.
In the past
From an old time-nuts post (by Magnus):
try these
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/1987/Vol%2019_19.pdf
http://horology.jpl.nasa.gov/papers/FlfmSimPtti.pdf
and here
http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/50096626/a-new-time-domain-model-of-precise-clock-noise
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Wolfgang
The link
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/1987/Vol%2019_19.pdf
doesn't work, use instead:
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/1987papers/Vol%2019_19.pdf
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Azelio Boriani
azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote:
From an old time-nuts post (by Magnus):
try these
Wolfgang,
There's a large list of papers at William Riley's site that should be of
interest to you:
http://www.wriley.com/
He also has copies of the NBS test data.
Given you're working on a masters thesis you can probably qualify for a student
discount on his Stable32 software; it includes the
15, 2010 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
Hi
Simulation might or might not have helped.
1) Was Vbe breakdown even included in the Spice model
2) If so did it ring bells (rare) or did it just clip without error (
common )
3) Would the same designer who didn't understand
On 8/14/2010 2:56 PM, J. Forster wrote:
On 8/14/2010 10:08 AM, J. Forster wrote:
FWIW, IMO any engineer who uses undocumented or uncontrolled parameters
or
instructions in a production design is a fool.
If you are that silly, you must fully specify the selection criteria.
-John
This
-
From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
Hi
Simulation might or might not have helped.
1) Was Vbe breakdown even included in the Spice model
2) If so
J. Forster wrote:
It depends on whether the leakage continues to rise or stabilizes after a
burn in period.
-John
Hi Bob yes that was a point raised by Prof Nat Sokal after I published
some
data, or rather he pointed out it happened in RF amps. I guess if you take
an used PA
On 08/16/2010 02:16 AM, jimlux wrote:
We get into the argument about still works ok in the circuit vs
doesn't meet databook specs all the time at work. To some folks, not
meet datasheet = failure, while if you have a circuit that needs a
gain of 10, and the part has a gain of 1000, and degrades
Hi
Simply a few stories I thought I would share.
Simulate design. Use manufacturer's published models. Build design. Note
differences. Call manufacturer. Answer - switched die three years ago, Ft is
now much better ( now 3x old parts ).
Odd they never mentioned that to people who work for
I have ALWAYS distrusted simulation and computer modeling. And I used to
teach the stuff. GIGO.
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are
as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind.
R. Bacon
-John
===
Hi
Simply a few
Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Simply a few stories I thought I would share.
Simulate design. Use manufacturer's published models. Build design. Note differences.
Call manufacturer. Answer - switched die three years ago, Ft is now much better
( now 3x old parts ).
Odd they never mentioned that to
FWIW, IMO any engineer who uses undocumented or uncontrolled parameters or
instructions in a production design is a fool.
If you are that silly, you must fully specify the selection criteria.
-John
===
Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Simply a few stories I thought I would share.
Simulate
Subject: [time-nuts] Simulation
Hi
Simply a few stories I thought I would share.
Simulate design. Use manufacturer's published models. Build design. Note
differences. Call manufacturer. Answer - switched die three years ago, Ft is
now much better ( now 3x old parts ).
Odd they never mentioned
(in production yes I agree)
In research things are different.
You wouldn't mind to make an selection of fets or else
to obtain the very top specs of a certain unique instrument
design as the real final product are the results you
may obtain with that instrument and not at all it's design...
So
J. Forster wrote:
FWIW, IMO any engineer who uses undocumented or uncontrolled parameters or
instructions in a production design is a fool.
If you are that silly, you must fully specify the selection criteria.
-John
Or, has their back against the wall and can't do it any other way.
How is
Simulation has some value in determining things like allowable component
tolerances and Worst Case analysis, but those are really production
engineering rather than design.
As to working at brassboard but not in production, it is prudent to check
that your parts are within the production part
I think you missinterpret what I meant. Two examples:
I've seen programmers who use instructions that are not part of a uP
instruction set and are undocumented, just to be clever. If a different
brand of chip, or even a different rev., the chip does something
completely different. These guys
Hi
The PDP-8 had so much code that depended on un-documented instructions that
they had to include them in later versions of the machine
Bob
On Aug 14, 2010, at 12:01 PM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote:
I think you missinterpret what I meant. Two examples:
I've seen programmers who
DEC code was a nightmare. Any DG Nova line code would run on any machine.
-John
=
Hi
The PDP-8 had so much code that depended on un-documented instructions
that they had to include them in later versions of the machine
Bob
On Aug 14, 2010, at 12:01 PM, J. Forster
On 08/14/2010 05:48 PM, J. Forster wrote:
Simulation has some value in determining things like allowable component
tolerances and Worst Case analysis, but those are really production
engineering rather than design.
As to working at brassboard but not in production, it is prudent to check
that
On 08/14/2010 06:15 PM, J. Forster wrote:
DEC code was a nightmare. Any DG Nova line code would run on any machine.
This is how we have learned what is a bad idea... and it is now
documented in the guidelines.
Use of the top 8 bits in pointers caused headaches for the 68k machines
when
Hello,
I've read at least two similar stories in Troubleshooting Analog
Circuits by Bob Pease.
One is that it seems that some time ago, National Semiconductor started
shipping LF411s marked as LF351s as an improvement... and as Bob says,
most of the customers probably were happy with that
On 08/14/2010 06:39 PM, Javier Herrero wrote:
Hello,
I've read at least two similar stories in Troubleshooting Analog
Circuits by Bob Pease.
One is that it seems that some time ago, National Semiconductor started
shipping LF411s marked as LF351s as an improvement... and as Bob says,
most of
One side-effect is that you run into possibilities of oscillation.
This have happend and was the cause of a GPS outage in a US Harbour a
few years back. What was a wise design became an enemy due to a subtle
change in part. Don't recall if the part was replaced by an
equivalent or same
I think this is pretty common with transistors.
A company is making a particular part, then a new, better part comes
along that exceeds the spec of an existing part. So they start putting the
new die into the old package as well as making the new part. Fewer dice to
make likely means cheaper and
I think it was a one-off failure:
http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/signal-processing/the-hunt-rfi-776
-John
===
One side-effect is that you run into possibilities of oscillation.
This have happend and was the cause of a GPS outage in a US Harbour a
few years back. What was a
Line got moved to other side of big ocean. Process got tweaked beta is
now 4x what it was.
I'm pretty sure that military grade parts have paperwork and processes to
cover that case. I expect it costs a lot.
I think the same sort of service is available to high volume customers at a
less
On 08/14/2010 07:10 PM, J. Forster wrote:
I think it was a one-off failure:
http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/signal-processing/the-hunt-rfi-776
This is the incident I described, but notice that there where three
sources, two of which was different antennas with the same amplifier...
both
El 14/08/2010 19:17, Hal Murray escribió:
So maybe it doesn't take a high volume, you just have to get plugged into the
right paperwork flow and then read all the fine print to see if the change is
interesting.
Yes. I'm not a high volume customer, only mid-to-low :) But I receive
the PCNs
Hi
Not so much.
Mil grade just makes sure they qualify a change.
At the time we had the issues the volume on the transistors was quite high. The
cost os screening was still prohibitive. They write the specs with very few
limits for a reason
Bob
On Aug 14, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Hal Murray
Hi
I seem to get weekly notices about a resin changing or a new date code format.
Silicon changes don't seem to be on the same system. That's still better than
it was 30 years back.
Bob
On Aug 14, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote:
El 14/08/2010 19:17, Hal
I sometimes get some PCNs about process changes on silicon (new process
or new masks). I suppose that depends on manufacturers :)
Regards,
Javier
El 14/08/2010 19:49, Bob Camp escribió:
Hi
I seem to get weekly notices about a resin changing or a new date code format. Silicon
changes don't
-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
Line got moved to other side of big ocean. Process got tweaked beta is
now 4x what it was.
I'm pretty sure that military grade parts have paperwork and processes to
cover that case. I expect it costs a lot.
I think the same sort of service
-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
Line got moved to other side of big ocean. Process got tweaked beta
is
now 4x what it was.
I'm pretty sure that military grade parts have paperwork and processes to
cover that case. I expect it costs a lot.
I think the same sort of service
On 8/14/2010 10:08 AM, J. Forster wrote:
FWIW, IMO any engineer who uses undocumented or uncontrolled parameters or
instructions in a production design is a fool.
If you are that silly, you must fully specify the selection criteria.
-John
This is, easily said, a wonderful goal, and absolute
On 8/14/2010 12:10 PM, J. Forster wrote:
I think it was a one-off failure:
http://www.gpsworld.com/gnss-system/signal-processing/the-hunt-rfi-776
-John
I wish it were a one off. I and friends at cell ops chase these things
all of the time in the cellular and public safety bands. This one
I can't recall hearing of other wide-area jamming of GPS, but they may not
have reached the media.
Certainly, that incident alone demonstrates the vulnerability of GPS and
argues against the shutdown of LORAN.
-Jo0hn
===
On 8/14/2010 12:10 PM, J. Forster wrote:
I think it was a
On 8/14/2010 10:08 AM, J. Forster wrote:
FWIW, IMO any engineer who uses undocumented or uncontrolled parameters
or
instructions in a production design is a fool.
If you are that silly, you must fully specify the selection criteria.
-John
This is, easily said, a wonderful goal, and
Hi
It's a very rare thing to see jelly bean parts screened for RF parameters. Much
more common to catch and fix an issue at the board level. Pretty rare to see
discrete RF anymore anyway.
Bob
On Aug 14, 2010, at 3:56 PM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote:
On 8/14/2010 10:08 AM, J. Forster
I've seen audio range power amps that will oscillate on a part of a cycle
because an output device with a higher fT was installed. Older vintage
parts with the same type JEDEC number never did that.
-John
Hi
It's a very rare thing to see jelly bean parts screened for RF
Hal Murray wrote:
Line got moved to other side of big ocean. Process got tweaked beta is
now 4x what it was.
I'm pretty sure that military grade parts have paperwork and processes to
cover that case. I expect it costs a lot.
I think the same sort of service is available to high volume
On Apollo they had file cabinets full of drawers for IBM punch cards,
except each had a microfilm insert.
They could trace a single #6-32 screw back to the mine the iron ore came
from.
-John
=
Hal Murray wrote:
Line got moved to other side of big ocean. Process got tweaked beta
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:42:39
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
Hal Murray wrote:
Line got moved to other side of big ocean
...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Didier Juges
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 6:18 PM
To: Time-Nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
Once I had a batch of JANTX 2NA (with all the paperwork) that were PNPs.
They actually were marked JANTX 2NA. This was for a mil
In a message dated 14/08/2010 23:39:20 GMT Daylight Time, mfe...@eozinc.com
writes:
Not that it really matters for this thread, but, the 2NA was one of the
most common NPNs and not PNPs. As I recall, the 2N2907A was its PNP
complement. - regards - Mike
--
Wasn't that
: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
Hal Murray wrote:
Line got moved to other side of big ocean. Process got tweaked beta
is
now 4x what
, 2010 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
Hal Murray wrote:
Line got moved to other side of big ocean. Process got tweaked beta
is
now 4x what it was.
I'm pretty sure that military grade parts have paperwork and processes
to
cover that case. I expect it costs a lot.
I
...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of gandal...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 6:52 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
In a message dated 14/08/2010 23:39:20 GMT Daylight Time, mfe...@eozinc.com
writes:
Not that it really matters
...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of gandal...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 6:52 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
In a message dated 14/08/2010 23:39:20 GMT Daylight Time,
mfe...@eozinc.com
writes:
Not that it really matters for this thread, but, the 2NA was one
, 07731
732-886-5960
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 9:43 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
?? The yellow banded R
B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of gandal...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 6:52 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts
. Forster
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 9:43 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Simulation
?? The yellow banded R means established reliability. I see no reason why
the NF should be any different then one w/o the yellow band. They are the
same
/
Mike
WB8GXB
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Shoppa
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 11:24 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Simulation tools for oscillators
Are there any useful, free or near-free tools for simulating
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