Re: [time-nuts] N1JEZ GPSDO Monitor Software

[Bryan _]

There is also winlabmon, but I could not get it to work on Windows 10. 
http://www.gpskit.nl/downloads-nl.htm

-=Bryan=-

> From: bpl...@outlook.com
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 21:42:05 -0700
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] N1JEZ GPSDO Monitor Software
> 
> http://infixtechnologies.com/products/GPSMonitor/GPSMonitor.php
> 
> -=Bryan=-
> 
> > From: w1...@earthlink.net
> > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 20:51:57 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] N1JEZ GPSDO Monitor Software
> > 
> > GPS Monitor is too vague to do a Google on, can you be a bit more specific ?
> > 
> > Tnx, Dick, W1KSZ
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bryan _
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:40 PM
> > To: TIme Nuts
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] N1JEZ GPSDO Monitor Software
> > 
> > Let me try this again, for some reason my email strips out  on this 
> > list Lady Heather, WinOncore12, SirfOnCore, VisualGPSXP, GPS Monitor.
> > 
> > -=Bryan=-
> > 
> > > From: bpl...@outlook.com
> > > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > > Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 18:22:35 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] N1JEZ GPSDO Monitor Software
> > > 
> > > Few that I have used
> > > Lady HeatherWinOnore12SirfOnCoreVisualGPSXP
> > > 
> > > -=Bryan=-
> > > 
> > > > From: w1...@earthlink.net
> > > > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > > > Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 09:00:16 -0700
> > > > Subject: [time-nuts] N1JEZ GPSDO Monitor Software
> > > > 
> > > > I found one that I built many years ago and would like to see if it 
> > > > still works.
> > > > 
> > > > I forget which monitoring software I used, but it most likely is 
> > > > woefully out
> > > > 
> > > > of date today.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Anything else (besides TAC32) that I could use ? 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Tnx, Dick, w1KSZ
> > > > 
> > > > ___
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> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > > 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[David G. McGaw]

NiMH batteries are close the same voltage and charge the same as NiCd 
and are more available and not toxic when disposing of them. They should 
be a good replacement.  Lithiums are very different in voltage and charging.


David N1HAC

On 9/14/16 10:19 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:

Thanks, Brooke, I'll price new Ni-Cads. I wasn't thinking of lead-acid (gel
cells) but rather lithium rechargeable, providing I can find a type that
won't catch fire and will work with the 105B'scircuits.

Jeremy


On Wednesday, September 14, 2016, Brooke Clarke  wrote:


Hi Alex:

Yes, I'm recommending Ni-Cad but NOT any acid type.

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
The lesser of evils is still evil.

 Original Message 


Hi Brooke,

sorry I have to disappoint you; Ni-Cd batteries do not use any acid, they
have K-OH  kalium hidrioxid  [potassium hydroxide  for anglophone ] as
electrolyte and they are normally very air-tide, and widely used in radios.

73

KJ6UHN

Alex

On 9/14/2016 4:45 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:


Hi Jeremy:

It's a very bad idea to put any battery with acid in an enclosure that
has electronics since if it vents the acid will etch the PCBs.
Guess how I learned this.  I got a great price on a Gibbs Frequency
Standard because the oven no longer worked.
http://prc68.com/I/office_equip.html


Modern Ni-Cad batteries have much more capacity than older ones and no
longer have a memory effect.  They are also very easy to charge, so why not
just replace the old cells?



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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Robert LaJeunesse]

Check with the used equipment / property disposition department of the nearest 
big research university. The one near me often has big UPSs at relatively 
little prices.

Bob LaJeunesse

> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 7:12 PM
> From: "Andy ZL3AG" 
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?
>
> 
> If you know where to get them from, you can get used 19" rack mount UPS's for 
> scrap value. They might have fried batteries, but that's easily solved.
> 
>  
> On 16/09/2016, at 11:06 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> > 
> > They are very common when you look at server UPS or larger units. There are 
> > literally hundreds of models to pick between. Prices are from roughly $400 
> > up to a few hundred thousand dollars per unit.
> > 
> > Bob
> 
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[time-nuts] Fwd: Re: For Sale Reference Synthesizer for Microwave "Brick"

[Joe Leikhim]

Price reduced, final hours!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162197662488?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

On 8/22/2016 10:47 PM, Joe Leikhim wrote:


For anyone still playing with old school CALIFORNIA MICROWAVE  type 
Microwave brick cavity oscillators.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/162150569755?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

I am cleaning out closets to make room for the next big project.

Also check out my other related stuff from time to time.

Thanks
--
Joe K4SAT

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


--
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

jleik...@leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM


--
Joe Leikhim


Leikhim and Associates

Communications Consultants

Oviedo, Florida

jleik...@leikhim.com

407-982-0446

WWW.LEIKHIM.COM

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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Mark Spencer]

In my experience the commonly seen UPS's that support external batteries expect 
you to use the batteries supplied (or at least specified) by the manufacturer.  
  

That being said I have come across UPS systems that are designed to work with 
generic user supplied 12 volt batteries but in my experience they are much less 
common.  Some of them even have adjustments to provide different charging 
voltages for different types of batteries.

Sorry this is getting a bit off topic.

All the best
Mark S



Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 4:06 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> They are very common when you look at server UPS or larger units. There are 
> literally hundreds of models to pick between. Prices are from roughly $400 up 
> to a few hundred thousand dollars per unit.
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
>> 
>> Since I have a 12V 100 A-H gelled electrolyte battery as a
>> short-term backup (for those outages not worth firing up the generator),
>> I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So far I don't see
>> such a thing--do they exist?
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
>>> On Thursday, September 15, 2016, Bob Camp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> It’s been quite a while since I bought anything other than a pure sine
>>> UPS. They really aren’t as expensive
>>> as they once were. You may find them a bit cheaper from outfits like
>>> CyberPower than from APC. Sometimes
>>> it s a bit tough to work out exactly what is or is not a pure sine wave
>>> unit. If you want a full “always on” pure
>>> sine device, they are still a bit expensive.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols > wrote:
 
 Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of
>>> the output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e.,
>>> expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka
>>> modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone
>>> have experience?
 
 A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like
>>> another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such
>>> a need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.
 
 Jeremy
 
 
> On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
> 
> A bigger question becomes:
> 
> Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?
> 
> These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone
>>> area. Powering
> the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff
>>> is one obvious
> answer.
> 
> The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is
>>> external to all
> the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack.
>>> That way you have
> a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch
>>> scattered about. Things like
> lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option
>>> in an independent
> battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest
>>> in something with real
> smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the
>>> conversion to instrument
> voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12,
>>> 24, or 48V and run with it.
> 
> My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become
>>> “don’t do it”. It makes
> them a *lot* lighter weight !!!
> 
> Bob
 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
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>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Andy ZL3AG]

If you know where to get them from, you can get used 19" rack mount UPS's for 
scrap value. They might have fried batteries, but that's easily solved.

 
On 16/09/2016, at 11:06 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

> Hi
> 
> They are very common when you look at server UPS or larger units. There are 
> literally hundreds of models to pick between. Prices are from roughly $400 up 
> to a few hundred thousand dollars per unit.
> 
> Bob

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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

They are very common when you look at server UPS or larger units. There are 
literally hundreds of models to pick between. Prices are from roughly $400 up 
to a few hundred thousand dollars per unit.

Bob

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
> Since I have a 12V 100 A-H gelled electrolyte battery as a
> short-term backup (for those outages not worth firing up the generator),
> I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So far I don't see
> such a thing--do they exist?
> 
> Jeremy
> 
>> On Thursday, September 15, 2016, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> It’s been quite a while since I bought anything other than a pure sine
>> UPS. They really aren’t as expensive
>> as they once were. You may find them a bit cheaper from outfits like
>> CyberPower than from APC. Sometimes
>> it s a bit tough to work out exactly what is or is not a pure sine wave
>> unit. If you want a full “always on” pure
>> sine device, they are still a bit expensive.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols > > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of
>> the output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e.,
>> expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka
>> modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone
>> have experience?
>>> 
>>> A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like
>> another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such
>> a need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.
>>> 
>>> Jeremy
>>> 
>>> 
 On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 A bigger question becomes:
 
 Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?
 
 These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone
>> area. Powering
 the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff
>> is one obvious
 answer.
 
 The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is
>> external to all
 the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack.
>> That way you have
 a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch
>> scattered about. Things like
 lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option
>> in an independent
 battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest
>> in something with real
 smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the
>> conversion to instrument
 voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12,
>> 24, or 48V and run with it.
 
 My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become
>> “don’t do it”. It makes
 them a *lot* lighter weight !!!
 
 Bob
 
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[paul swed]

APC has made UPS that take both internal and external batteries.
My house runs on a 2KW APC in bad times and they seem to run just fine.
Granted the battery is a drop bigger then we are speaking of here and I use
a separate 55 amp precision charger. Love that telco stuff.
But these are the serious commercial grade units that I find surplus or
free. They use 48 volt packs. I was aware of the traditional run times on
many smaller UPS units so stay clear of them.
Suspect we have strayed away from the basic question so will stop this sort
of comment.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:41 PM, Gary E. Miller  wrote:

> Yo Jeremy!
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:13:59 -0700
> Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
>
> > I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So
> > far I don't see such a thing--do they exist?
>
> Not in the store, but they are easy to make.  I take consumer grade
> CyberPower sine wave supplies.  Remove the expensive and wimpy 12V9A
> gells cells.  Then I put two 6V deep cycle tractor batteries in a
> battery box and cable them into the UPS with #6 wire from old jumper
> cables.  To make it nice and neat, I fuse it with inline 50Amp fuses and
> 50Amp DC connectors.  Total cost about $200.
>
> I've been doing that for almost two decades and have 6 running now.
> I'll get two or three hours of backup from them.  Two weeks ago I had a
> 45 minute power outage, my network never hiccuped.  The batteries need
> replacing about every five years.
>
> APC UPS can't handle the longer runtime, but never had a problem with
> any version of CyberPower.
>
> Just be sure that everything you need to stay up is on a UPS, and that
> they are well within their load rating.
>
> I can post pictures if anyone wants.
>
> RGDS
> GARY
> 
> ---
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
> g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Martin A Flynn]

Look for a  POWERVAR model ABCE150-11M2.  It has an IEC plug and 
connector for 120 Volt in and out along with a yellow SB-50 connector 
for the 12 VDC battery connector.  Compatible with LiFePO4   and SLA 
battery chemistries



On 9/15/2016 6:21 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

They do exist.   I've seen them in service at Telecom sites outside of the U.S. 
and Canada.   I believe there was a thread re this a few years ago ?

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 15, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:

Since I have a 12V 100 A-H gelled electrolyte battery as a
short-term backup (for those outages not worth firing up the generator),
I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So far I don't see
such a thing--do they exist?

Jeremy


On Thursday, September 15, 2016, Bob Camp  wrote:

Hi

It’s been quite a while since I bought anything other than a pure sine
UPS. They really aren’t as expensive
as they once were. You may find them a bit cheaper from outfits like
CyberPower than from APC. Sometimes
it s a bit tough to work out exactly what is or is not a pure sine wave
unit. If you want a full “always on” pure
sine device, they are still a bit expensive.

Bob


On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols > wrote:

Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of

the output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e.,
expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka
modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone
have experience?

A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like

another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such
a need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.

Jeremy



On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi

A bigger question becomes:

Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?

These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone

area. Powering

the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff

is one obvious

answer.

The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is

external to all

the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack.

That way you have

a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch

scattered about. Things like

lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option

in an independent

battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest

in something with real

smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the

conversion to instrument

voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12,

24, or 48V and run with it.

My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become

“don’t do it”. It makes

them a *lot* lighter weight !!!

Bob

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--
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Gary E. Miller]

Yo Jeremy!

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:13:59 -0700
Jeremy Nichols  wrote:

> I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So
> far I don't see such a thing--do they exist?

Not in the store, but they are easy to make.  I take consumer grade
CyberPower sine wave supplies.  Remove the expensive and wimpy 12V9A
gells cells.  Then I put two 6V deep cycle tractor batteries in a
battery box and cable them into the UPS with #6 wire from old jumper
cables.  To make it nice and neat, I fuse it with inline 50Amp fuses and
50Amp DC connectors.  Total cost about $200.

I've been doing that for almost two decades and have 6 running now.
I'll get two or three hours of backup from them.  Two weeks ago I had a
45 minute power outage, my network never hiccuped.  The batteries need
replacing about every five years.

APC UPS can't handle the longer runtime, but never had a problem with
any version of CyberPower.

Just be sure that everything you need to stay up is on a UPS, and that
they are well within their load rating.

I can post pictures if anyone wants.

RGDS
GARY
---
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588


pgpdJZp6896S0.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Mark Spencer]

Thanks I was  aware of Ni Fe batteries but have never seen them for sale at the 
local "battery store" where I buy batteries for my vehicles, time nuts and 
amateur radio pursuits (:

I view lead acid batteries (especially ones designed for in door use) as semi 
expendable for my various hobbies.I figure I got my monies worth from the 
ones backing up the HP105B and FTS 1050 as I am well on my way to 10 years of 
up time for those two devices. 

I tend to replace  batteries on general principles every 5 years or so or at 
least move them to a less demanding application.   (Ie. shuffle them from time 
nuts backup use to portable power use for amateur radio.)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Alexander Pummer  wrote:
> 
> if you deep discharge led acid batteries -- which are not made special for 
> deep discharge -- you will have to replace them quite often, on the other 
> hand Ni-Fe batteries you could short out, overcharge they are undisrtuktable 
> that is the reason why they are not produced any more in the US, they do not 
> fit into the American business-model, but phone companies, railway and 
> aviation still using them, you could still find old electrical forklifts with 
> Ni-Fe battery made by Edison Batteries in the sixties in the past century the 
> batteries are still fine. Tudor -- a led-acid battery producer -- purchased 
> Edison Batteries and closed down the formidable competitor
> 
> 73
> KL6UHN
> Alex
> 
>> On 9/15/2016 2:26 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:
>> Hi I've run my HP105B (with the old style oscillator) from AC power via a 
>> consumer grade UPS, 24 Vdc from a lead acid battery bank and briefly from 
>> the internal battery pack with out any notable changes in performance (that 
>> being said I can't measure phase noise so this observation may or may not be 
>> of use.)
>> 
>> I'm not to fussed over the internal Nicad pack and rely on an external 
>> battery bank in case I loose AC power for an extended time period.
>> 
>> During a two day outage my HP105B and FTS1050 ran nicely from a 100 AH 
>> battery bank but the batteries needed to be replaced shortly afterwards.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:13 AM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of the 
>>> output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e., 
>>> expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka 
>>> modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone 
>>> have experience?
>>> 
>>> A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like 
>>> another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such 
>>> a need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.
>>> 
>>> Jeremy
>>> 
>>> 
 On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 A bigger question becomes:
 
 Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?
 
 These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone 
 area. Powering
 the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff is 
 one obvious
 answer.
 
 The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is 
 external to all
 the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack. 
 That way you have
 a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch scattered 
 about. Things like
 lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option in 
 an independent
 battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest in 
 something with real
 smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the 
 conversion to instrument
 voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12, 24, 
 or 48V and run with it.
 
 My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become 
 “don’t do it”. It makes
 them a *lot* lighter weight !!!
 
 Bob
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>>> and follow the instructions there.
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>> 
>> 
>> -
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13022 - Release Date: 09/15/16
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Mark Spencer]

They do exist.   I've seen them in service at Telecom sites outside of the U.S. 
and Canada.   I believe there was a thread re this a few years ago ?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
> Since I have a 12V 100 A-H gelled electrolyte battery as a
> short-term backup (for those outages not worth firing up the generator),
> I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So far I don't see
> such a thing--do they exist?
> 
> Jeremy
> 
>> On Thursday, September 15, 2016, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> It’s been quite a while since I bought anything other than a pure sine
>> UPS. They really aren’t as expensive
>> as they once were. You may find them a bit cheaper from outfits like
>> CyberPower than from APC. Sometimes
>> it s a bit tough to work out exactly what is or is not a pure sine wave
>> unit. If you want a full “always on” pure
>> sine device, they are still a bit expensive.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
 On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of
>> the output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e.,
>> expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka
>> modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone
>> have experience?
>>> 
>>> A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like
>> another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such
>> a need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.
>>> 
>>> Jeremy
>>> 
>>> 
 On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 A bigger question becomes:
 
 Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?
 
 These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone
>> area. Powering
 the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff
>> is one obvious
 answer.
 
 The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is
>> external to all
 the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack.
>> That way you have
 a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch
>> scattered about. Things like
 lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option
>> in an independent
 battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest
>> in something with real
 smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the
>> conversion to instrument
 voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12,
>> 24, or 48V and run with it.
 
 My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become
>> “don’t do it”. It makes
 them a *lot* lighter weight !!!
 
 Bob
>>> 
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>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
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>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
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>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Jeremy Nichols]

Since I have a 12V 100 A-H gelled electrolyte battery as a
short-term backup (for those outages not worth firing up the generator),
I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So far I don't see
such a thing--do they exist?

Jeremy

On Thursday, September 15, 2016, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> It’s been quite a while since I bought anything other than a pure sine
> UPS. They really aren’t as expensive
> as they once were. You may find them a bit cheaper from outfits like
> CyberPower than from APC. Sometimes
> it s a bit tough to work out exactly what is or is not a pure sine wave
> unit. If you want a full “always on” pure
> sine device, they are still a bit expensive.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols  > wrote:
> >
> > Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of
> the output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e.,
> expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka
> modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone
> have experience?
> >
> > A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like
> another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such
> a need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> > On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> A bigger question becomes:
> >>
> >> Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?
> >>
> >> These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone
> area. Powering
> >> the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff
> is one obvious
> >> answer.
> >>
> >> The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is
> external to all
> >> the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack.
> That way you have
> >> a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch
> scattered about. Things like
> >> lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option
> in an independent
> >> battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest
> in something with real
> >> smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the
> conversion to instrument
> >> voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12,
> 24, or 48V and run with it.
> >>
> >> My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become
> “don’t do it”. It makes
> >> them a *lot* lighter weight !!!
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>


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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Alexander Pummer]

if you deep discharge led acid batteries -- which are not made special 
for deep discharge -- you will have to replace them quite often, on the 
other hand Ni-Fe batteries you could short out, overcharge they are 
undisrtuktable that is the reason why they are not produced any more in 
the US, they do not fit into the American business-model, but phone 
companies, railway and aviation still using them, you could still find 
old electrical forklifts with Ni-Fe battery made by Edison Batteries in 
the sixties in the past century the batteries are still fine. Tudor -- a 
led-acid battery producer -- purchased Edison Batteries and closed down 
the formidable competitor


73
KL6UHN
Alex

On 9/15/2016 2:26 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

Hi I've run my HP105B (with the old style oscillator) from AC power via a 
consumer grade UPS, 24 Vdc from a lead acid battery bank and briefly from the 
internal battery pack with out any notable changes in performance (that being 
said I can't measure phase noise so this observation may or may not be of use.)

I'm not to fussed over the internal Nicad pack and rely on an external battery 
bank in case I loose AC power for an extended time period.

During a two day outage my HP105B and FTS1050 ran nicely from a 100 AH battery 
bank but the batteries needed to be replaced shortly afterwards.

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:13 AM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:

Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of the 
output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e., 
expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka modified 
square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone have 
experience?

A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like another good 
alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such a need, only that the 105B 
stay "on" regardless of power failures.

Jeremy



On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi

A bigger question becomes:

Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?

These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone area. 
Powering
the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff is one 
obvious
answer.

The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is external 
to all
the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack. That 
way you have
a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch scattered 
about. Things like
lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option in an 
independent
battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest in 
something with real
smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the conversion 
to instrument
voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12, 24, or 
48V and run with it.

My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become “don’t do 
it”. It makes
them a *lot* lighter weight !!!

Bob

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13022 - Release Date: 09/15/16


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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

It’s been quite a while since I bought anything other than a pure sine UPS. 
They really aren’t as expensive 
as they once were. You may find them a bit cheaper from outfits like CyberPower 
than from APC. Sometimes
it s a bit tough to work out exactly what is or is not a pure sine wave unit. 
If you want a full “always on” pure
sine device, they are still a bit expensive. 

Bob

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
> Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of the 
> output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e., 
> expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka 
> modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone 
> have experience?
> 
> A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like 
> another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such a 
> need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> 
> On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> A bigger question becomes:
>> 
>> Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?
>> 
>> These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone 
>> area. Powering
>> the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff is 
>> one obvious
>> answer.
>> 
>> The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is 
>> external to all
>> the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack. That 
>> way you have
>> a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch scattered 
>> about. Things like
>> lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option in 
>> an independent
>> battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest in 
>> something with real
>> smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the 
>> conversion to instrument
>> voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12, 24, 
>> or 48V and run with it.
>> 
>> My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become “don’t 
>> do it”. It makes
>> them a *lot* lighter weight !!!
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Mark Spencer]

Hi I've run my HP105B (with the old style oscillator) from AC power via a 
consumer grade UPS, 24 Vdc from a lead acid battery bank and briefly from the 
internal battery pack with out any notable changes in performance (that being 
said I can't measure phase noise so this observation may or may not be of use.)

I'm not to fussed over the internal Nicad pack and rely on an external battery 
bank in case I loose AC power for an extended time period.   

During a two day outage my HP105B and FTS1050 ran nicely from a 100 AH battery 
bank but the batteries needed to be replaced shortly afterwards.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:13 AM, Jeremy Nichols  wrote:
> 
> Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of the 
> output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e., 
> expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka 
> modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone 
> have experience?
> 
> A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like 
> another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have such a 
> need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> 
>> On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> A bigger question becomes:
>> 
>> Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?
>> 
>> These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone 
>> area. Powering
>> the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff is 
>> one obvious
>> answer.
>> 
>> The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is 
>> external to all
>> the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack. That 
>> way you have
>> a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch scattered 
>> about. Things like
>> lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option in 
>> an independent
>> battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest in 
>> something with real
>> smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the 
>> conversion to instrument
>> voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12, 24, 
>> or 48V and run with it.
>> 
>> My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become “don’t 
>> do it”. It makes
>> them a *lot* lighter weight !!!
>> 
>> Bob
> 
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Jeremy Nichols]

Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of 
the output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave 
(i.e., expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave 
(aka modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. 
Anyone have experience?


A external battery and appropriate chargers and cabling does sound like 
another good alternative. Harder to move around but I don't (yet) have 
such a need, only that the 105B stay "on" regardless of power failures.


Jeremy


On 9/15/2016 10:15 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

A bigger question becomes:

Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?

These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone area. 
Powering
the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff is one 
obvious
answer.

The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is external 
to all
the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack. That 
way you have
a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch scattered 
about. Things like
lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option in an 
independent
battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest in 
something with real
smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the conversion 
to instrument
voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12, 24, or 
48V and run with it.

My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become “don’t do 
it”. It makes
them a *lot* lighter weight !!!

Bob




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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Jeremy Nichols]

Brooke, I priced Ni-Cds and was not happy with the numbers: a set of 20 
D-size cells will cost me ~US$100 by the time I get them delivered. That 
plus the 8-pound weight penalty makes replacement Ni-Cd cells 
unattractive. (105A = 16 pounds, 105B = 24 pounds including the battery 
box and charging circuitry) There is no question that Ni-Cds are the 
answer for anyone attempting to restore a 105B for competition in the 
neighborhood Concours d'Elegance.


I do appreciate your work on the relative merits of the various Lithium 
types. I was afraid the existing charge circuitry in the 105B would not 
mate well with Lithium-anything batteries. Having twice set the house 
afire through assorted misadventures (thank goodness for smoke alarms 
and fire extinguishers),  I don't want to try for "Number 3".


Jeremy


On 9/15/2016 9:59 AM, Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi Jeremy:

I'm currently having fun playing with various rechargeable battery 
related stuff  which includes Li-Ion cells.

http://www.prc68.com/I/BatTst.shtml#Resistor
The cells come in three configurations:
1. the raw flat top cell with optional tabs to allow easy soldering 
into a pack,
2. cell plus positive button cap which includes a Positive Temperature 
Coefficient (PTC) fuse and an over pressure vent,
3. fully protected, like 2, plus circuit that turns off the battery if 
charging and over voltage or loaded and under voltage. On these you 
can feel a wire/ribbon running from positive to negative under the 
shrink wrap and they are slightly longer.

These configurations are independent of the flavor of Li chemistry.

To go with any of the above you need a charger specific to the 
particular Li chemistry (the charging voltage is not the same) and if 
a pack you also need a either cells like 3 above or a protection 
circuit for the pack.  For optimum performance in addition a tap 
between each virtual cell (made of of parallel cells) so that the 
charge can be balanced and a charger that can do that.  This is not 
easy, witness the current recall of the Galaxy Note 7s phones.


I would just use modern Ni-Cad cells mainly because of the ease of 
charging and maintaining them and use the existing charging circuitry.
Li chemistry has advantages for portable equipment, but not so much 
for rack mounted equipment.




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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Scott McGrath]

I had my local BatteriesPlus rebuild my pack for my 105B about 4 years ago and 
it's still working well as I recall the cost was about 175. But I specified use 
best quality cells.  Plus they have the proper battery welder and test gear and 
they have more vendor clout to get consistently good cells as opposed to 
getting them mail order or through the well known auction sites

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 1:16 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Brookes comments are the facts you can not use simple charging circuits.
> But smart charging circuits seem to be available on various sites for low
> cost. It seems the RC modelers have helped us out.
> The thing I will say is I have ordered new nicad C cell batteries from
> major a major vendor and they did not last long at all for the cost I was
> quite disappointed.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jeremy:
>> 
>> I'm currently having fun playing with various rechargeable battery related
>> stuff  which includes Li-Ion cells.
>> http://www.prc68.com/I/BatTst.shtml#Resistor
>> The cells come in three configurations:
>> 1. the raw flat top cell with optional tabs to allow easy soldering into a
>> pack,
>> 2. cell plus positive button cap which includes a Positive Temperature
>> Coefficient (PTC) fuse and an over pressure vent,
>> 3. fully protected, like 2, plus circuit that turns off the battery if
>> charging and over voltage or loaded and under voltage.  On these you can
>> feel a wire/ribbon running from positive to negative under the shrink wrap
>> and they are slightly longer.
>> These configurations are independent of the flavor of Li chemistry.
>> 
>> To go with any of the above you need a charger specific to the particular
>> Li chemistry (the charging voltage is not the same) and if a pack you also
>> need a either cells like 3 above or a protection circuit for the pack.  For
>> optimum performance in addition a tap between each virtual cell (made of of
>> parallel cells) so that the charge can be balanced and a charger that can
>> do that.  This is not easy, witness the current recall of the Galaxy Note
>> 7s phones.
>> 
>> I would just use modern Ni-Cad cells mainly because of the ease of
>> charging and maintaining them and use the existing charging circuitry.
>> Li chemistry has advantages for portable equipment, but not so much for
>> rack mounted equipment.
>> 
>> --
>> Have Fun,
>> 
>> Brooke Clarke
>> http://www.PRC68.com
>> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>> The lesser of evils is still evil.
>> 
>>  Original Message 
>> 
>>> Thanks, Brooke, I'll price new Ni-Cads. I wasn't thinking of lead-acid
>>> (gel
>>> cells) but rather lithium rechargeable, providing I can find a type that
>>> won't catch fire and will work with the 105B'scircuits.
>>> 
>>> Jeremy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2016, Brooke Clarke 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Alex:
 
 Yes, I'm recommending Ni-Cad but NOT any acid type.
 
 --
 Have Fun,
 
 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
 The lesser of evils is still evil.
 
  Original Message 
 
 Hi Brooke,
> 
> sorry I have to disappoint you; Ni-Cd batteries do not use any acid,
> they
> have K-OH  kalium hidrioxid  [potassium hydroxide  for anglophone ] as
> electrolyte and they are normally very air-tide, and widely used in
> radios.
> 
> 73
> 
> KJ6UHN
> 
> Alex
> 
> On 9/14/2016 4:45 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeremy:
>> 
>> It's a very bad idea to put any battery with acid in an enclosure that
>> has electronics since if it vents the acid will etch the PCBs.
>> Guess how I learned this.  I got a great price on a Gibbs Frequency
>> Standard because the oven no longer worked.
>> http://prc68.com/I/office_equip.html
>> 
>> 
>> Modern Ni-Cad batteries have much more capacity than older ones and no
>> longer have a memory effect.  They are also very easy to charge, so
>> why not
>> just replace the old cells?
>> 
>> 
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[time-nuts] FS: SR620

[Joseph Gray]

I am scaling back on my Time Nuttery. $1200 OBO, plus shipping & insurance.

Joe Gray
W5JG
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[paul swed]

Brookes comments are the facts you can not use simple charging circuits.
But smart charging circuits seem to be available on various sites for low
cost. It seems the RC modelers have helped us out.
The thing I will say is I have ordered new nicad C cell batteries from
major a major vendor and they did not last long at all for the cost I was
quite disappointed.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:

> Hi Jeremy:
>
> I'm currently having fun playing with various rechargeable battery related
> stuff  which includes Li-Ion cells.
> http://www.prc68.com/I/BatTst.shtml#Resistor
> The cells come in three configurations:
> 1. the raw flat top cell with optional tabs to allow easy soldering into a
> pack,
> 2. cell plus positive button cap which includes a Positive Temperature
> Coefficient (PTC) fuse and an over pressure vent,
> 3. fully protected, like 2, plus circuit that turns off the battery if
> charging and over voltage or loaded and under voltage.  On these you can
> feel a wire/ribbon running from positive to negative under the shrink wrap
> and they are slightly longer.
> These configurations are independent of the flavor of Li chemistry.
>
> To go with any of the above you need a charger specific to the particular
> Li chemistry (the charging voltage is not the same) and if a pack you also
> need a either cells like 3 above or a protection circuit for the pack.  For
> optimum performance in addition a tap between each virtual cell (made of of
> parallel cells) so that the charge can be balanced and a charger that can
> do that.  This is not easy, witness the current recall of the Galaxy Note
> 7s phones.
>
> I would just use modern Ni-Cad cells mainly because of the ease of
> charging and maintaining them and use the existing charging circuitry.
> Li chemistry has advantages for portable equipment, but not so much for
> rack mounted equipment.
>
> --
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> The lesser of evils is still evil.
>
>  Original Message 
>
>> Thanks, Brooke, I'll price new Ni-Cads. I wasn't thinking of lead-acid
>> (gel
>> cells) but rather lithium rechargeable, providing I can find a type that
>> won't catch fire and will work with the 105B'scircuits.
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2016, Brooke Clarke 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alex:
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm recommending Ni-Cad but NOT any acid type.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Have Fun,
>>>
>>> Brooke Clarke
>>> http://www.PRC68.com
>>> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>>> The lesser of evils is still evil.
>>>
>>>  Original Message 
>>>
>>> Hi Brooke,

 sorry I have to disappoint you; Ni-Cd batteries do not use any acid,
 they
 have K-OH  kalium hidrioxid  [potassium hydroxide  for anglophone ] as
 electrolyte and they are normally very air-tide, and widely used in
 radios.

 73

 KJ6UHN

 Alex

 On 9/14/2016 4:45 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:

 Hi Jeremy:
>
> It's a very bad idea to put any battery with acid in an enclosure that
> has electronics since if it vents the acid will etch the PCBs.
> Guess how I learned this.  I got a great price on a Gibbs Frequency
> Standard because the oven no longer worked.
> http://prc68.com/I/office_equip.html
>
>
> Modern Ni-Cad batteries have much more capacity than older ones and no
> longer have a memory effect.  They are also very easy to charge, so
> why not
> just replace the old cells?
>
>
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 ___
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>>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

A bigger question becomes:

Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore?

These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone area. 
Powering
the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff is one 
obvious 
answer. 

The other answer is an even older approach. Use a battery bank that is external 
to all 
the gear in the rack and tend it independently of each box in the rack. That 
way you have 
a few very large cells to worry about rather than a whole bunch scattered 
about. Things like
lead acid that are impractical in a piece of gear are more of an option in an 
independent 
battery box. A single charger / line supply makes it easier to invest in 
something with real
smarts in it. The advent of dirt cheap isolated switchers makes the conversion 
to instrument 
voltages a lot easier than it once was. Pick a common voltage like 12, 24, or 
48V and run with it. 

My answer to the frequency standard battery pack question has become “don’t do 
it”. It makes
them a *lot* lighter weight !!!

Bob

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 12:59 PM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeremy:
> 
> I'm currently having fun playing with various rechargeable battery related 
> stuff  which includes Li-Ion cells.
> http://www.prc68.com/I/BatTst.shtml#Resistor
> The cells come in three configurations:
> 1. the raw flat top cell with optional tabs to allow easy soldering into a 
> pack,
> 2. cell plus positive button cap which includes a Positive Temperature 
> Coefficient (PTC) fuse and an over pressure vent,
> 3. fully protected, like 2, plus circuit that turns off the battery if 
> charging and over voltage or loaded and under voltage.  On these you can feel 
> a wire/ribbon running from positive to negative under the shrink wrap and 
> they are slightly longer.
> These configurations are independent of the flavor of Li chemistry.
> 
> To go with any of the above you need a charger specific to the particular Li 
> chemistry (the charging voltage is not the same) and if a pack you also need 
> a either cells like 3 above or a protection circuit for the pack.  For 
> optimum performance in addition a tap between each virtual cell (made of of 
> parallel cells) so that the charge can be balanced and a charger that can do 
> that.  This is not easy, witness the current recall of the Galaxy Note 7s 
> phones.
> 
> I would just use modern Ni-Cad cells mainly because of the ease of charging 
> and maintaining them and use the existing charging circuitry.
> Li chemistry has advantages for portable equipment, but not so much for rack 
> mounted equipment.
> 
> -- 
> Have Fun,
> 
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> The lesser of evils is still evil.
> 
>  Original Message 
>> Thanks, Brooke, I'll price new Ni-Cads. I wasn't thinking of lead-acid (gel
>> cells) but rather lithium rechargeable, providing I can find a type that
>> won't catch fire and will work with the 105B'scircuits.
>> 
>> Jeremy
>> 
>> 
>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2016, Brooke Clarke  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Alex:
>>> 
>>> Yes, I'm recommending Ni-Cad but NOT any acid type.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Have Fun,
>>> 
>>> Brooke Clarke
>>> http://www.PRC68.com
>>> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>>> The lesser of evils is still evil.
>>> 
>>>  Original Message 
>>> 
 Hi Brooke,
 
 sorry I have to disappoint you; Ni-Cd batteries do not use any acid, they
 have K-OH  kalium hidrioxid  [potassium hydroxide  for anglophone ] as
 electrolyte and they are normally very air-tide, and widely used in radios.
 
 73
 
 KJ6UHN
 
 Alex
 
 On 9/14/2016 4:45 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:
 
> Hi Jeremy:
> 
> It's a very bad idea to put any battery with acid in an enclosure that
> has electronics since if it vents the acid will etch the PCBs.
> Guess how I learned this.  I got a great price on a Gibbs Frequency
> Standard because the oven no longer worked.
> http://prc68.com/I/office_equip.html
> 
> 
> Modern Ni-Cad batteries have much more capacity than older ones and no
> longer have a memory effect.  They are also very easy to charge, so why 
> not
> just replace the old cells?
> 
> 
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
 ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
>>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Faulty Tbolt?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

There is a temperature monitor IC on the TBolt PCB. It is an older Dallas 
Semiconductor part. You can dig into the archives for all the details on which 
version gives you the best results. The simple answer is that it’s not hurting 
anything and there is no real reason to fix it, unless you just *have* to know 
the temperature. 

Bob


> On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:29 AM, Cube Central  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, long time lurker, novice time-nut.
> I've had this Tbolt for a while now, and while it appears to be operating 
> normally, I thought that I would ask about the "Temp" or temperature field 
> that is being reported in both TBOLTMON and Lady Heather's.  
> 
> You can see here:  http://i.imgur.com/ZdZzJGB.png is a screenshot from Lady 
> Heather's and it is showing -55C.  TBOLTMON shows the same, so it isn't 
> something with either program.
> 
> Any ideas about what this could be or what it could mean?  Is it affecting 
> how the Tbolt is operating?  Is there any way to fix this (keeping in mind I 
> am a novice)?
> 
> I got it off of eBay, from a recommendation of a friend.  I think it has 
> always done this, but there is the possibility that it started to do it after 
> my outdoor antenna got a bunch of water in it (while upside down, the mount 
> failed) and thus shorted the antenna for a small period of time.  It seemed 
> to recover from that (once dry), but I really couldn't tell you when this 
> temperature measurement looked that way - if after that incident or ever 
> since I've owned it.
> 
> Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!  If there are any 
> (basic) tests that you would like performed, I am willing to try!
> 
> Thanks again!  Cheers!
> 
>   -Randal 
>   (at CubeCentral)
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Jeremy:

I'm currently having fun playing with various rechargeable battery related 
stuff  which includes Li-Ion cells.
http://www.prc68.com/I/BatTst.shtml#Resistor
The cells come in three configurations:
1. the raw flat top cell with optional tabs to allow easy soldering into a pack,
2. cell plus positive button cap which includes a Positive Temperature 
Coefficient (PTC) fuse and an over pressure vent,
3. fully protected, like 2, plus circuit that turns off the battery if charging and over voltage or loaded and under 
voltage.  On these you can feel a wire/ribbon running from positive to negative under the shrink wrap and they are 
slightly longer.

These configurations are independent of the flavor of Li chemistry.

To go with any of the above you need a charger specific to the particular Li chemistry (the charging voltage is not the 
same) and if a pack you also need a either cells like 3 above or a protection circuit for the pack.  For optimum 
performance in addition a tap between each virtual cell (made of of parallel cells) so that the charge can be balanced 
and a charger that can do that.  This is not easy, witness the current recall of the Galaxy Note 7s phones.


I would just use modern Ni-Cad cells mainly because of the ease of charging and maintaining them and use the existing 
charging circuitry.

Li chemistry has advantages for portable equipment, but not so much for rack 
mounted equipment.

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
The lesser of evils is still evil.

 Original Message 

Thanks, Brooke, I'll price new Ni-Cads. I wasn't thinking of lead-acid (gel
cells) but rather lithium rechargeable, providing I can find a type that
won't catch fire and will work with the 105B'scircuits.

Jeremy


On Wednesday, September 14, 2016, Brooke Clarke  wrote:


Hi Alex:

Yes, I'm recommending Ni-Cad but NOT any acid type.

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
The lesser of evils is still evil.

 Original Message 


Hi Brooke,

sorry I have to disappoint you; Ni-Cd batteries do not use any acid, they
have K-OH  kalium hidrioxid  [potassium hydroxide  for anglophone ] as
electrolyte and they are normally very air-tide, and widely used in radios.

73

KJ6UHN

Alex

On 9/14/2016 4:45 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:


Hi Jeremy:

It's a very bad idea to put any battery with acid in an enclosure that
has electronics since if it vents the acid will etch the PCBs.
Guess how I learned this.  I got a great price on a Gibbs Frequency
Standard because the oven no longer worked.
http://prc68.com/I/office_equip.html


Modern Ni-Cad batteries have much more capacity than older ones and no
longer have a memory effect.  They are also very easy to charge, so why not
just replace the old cells?



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[time-nuts] Faulty Tbolt?

[Cube Central]

Hi all, long time lurker, novice time-nut.
I've had this Tbolt for a while now, and while it appears to be operating 
normally, I thought that I would ask about the "Temp" or temperature field that 
is being reported in both TBOLTMON and Lady Heather's.  

You can see here:  http://i.imgur.com/ZdZzJGB.png is a screenshot from Lady 
Heather's and it is showing -55C.  TBOLTMON shows the same, so it isn't 
something with either program.

Any ideas about what this could be or what it could mean?  Is it affecting how 
the Tbolt is operating?  Is there any way to fix this (keeping in mind I am a 
novice)?

I got it off of eBay, from a recommendation of a friend.  I think it has always 
done this, but there is the possibility that it started to do it after my 
outdoor antenna got a bunch of water in it (while upside down, the mount 
failed) and thus shorted the antenna for a small period of time.  It seemed to 
recover from that (once dry), but I really couldn't tell you when this 
temperature measurement looked that way - if after that incident or ever since 
I've owned it.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!  If there are any 
(basic) tests that you would like performed, I am willing to try!

Thanks again!  Cheers!

-Randal 
(at CubeCentral)


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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble receiver 37426-61

[Tom Holmes]

HI Glenn...

I think I have something for you, but I am traveling and it isn't on my laptop. 
I will look for it next week when I get home. It was the installation manual 
and has the pinout you need.

Tom Holmes, N8ZM


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Little 
WB4UIV
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 5:34 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble receiver 37426-61

I have a Trimble receiver 37426-61 that I would like to see if it works.
Does anyone have the pinout information for the Trimble 7 pin interface?
The date code is 9905.
This receiver is no longer in Trimble's database.
Sure glad my doctor does not dump my records when I get that old.
I would suspect that due to lack of foresite that this receiver will 
have a Y2K problem as it was build just before the turn of the century.
I would also suspect that it will have a week 1024 rollover problem.

Any help appreciated.
73
Glenn
WB4UIV


-- 
---
Glenn LittleARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM 28417
Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIVwb4...@arrl.netAMSAT LM 2178
QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"
---

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Re: [time-nuts] Clean 10 MHz ref

[David J Taylor]

True for the first frequency.  The second statement may or may not be true, 
it
was not clear in the original description of the device.  When I wrote Leo 
and
asked about a specific second frequency he did a manual calculation and sent 
me

the parameters. From another email reply:

   "Sorry, did not catch your email first time.  Thank you for your custom!

   The numbers are internal settings of PLL chip Si5328 and you can find 
more

   details here:
   
https://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/Si53xxReferenceManual.pdf

   You can set other frequencies just by typing them into Output 1 box and
   clicking "Find"  This will find and program the new frequency.

   If you want two separate frequencies at the same time it gets a bit 
tricky
   and often need manual setup.  In such case let me know what combination 
you

   would like and i will try to find the correct settings."

While this is process is helpful, it is hardly convenient and frankly me
deciphering the doc without a Rosetta Stone isn't going to happen.

Wes, N7WS
==

Wes,

Yes, the second frequency does depend on the first, and this is noted in the 
review:


 http://www.force12inc.com/content/Bodnar%20GPSDO%20QST%20review.pdf

You can easily have both outputs at the same frequency (e.g. 10 MHz), 
though.  Thanks for the pointer to the datasheet.


For me, just having the easily-adjustable single GPS-locked frequency in 
such a compact, ready-to-run, unit is great.  Perhaps someone will write a 
little program to enable fuller use of the second output.


73,
David GM8ARV
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv 


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Re: [time-nuts] Ettus OctoClock measurements

[Anders Wallin]

>
> > The results are decent but not stellar:
> > http://www.anderswallin.net/2016/09/ettus-octoclock-
> distribution-amplifier/
> > In particular the AM noise on the 10MHz looks high. Any
> thoughts/comments?
>
> I am not surprised. They used a digital clock distribution chip. The chip
> is not designed for lowest phase noise, neither is the surrounding
> electronics.
> And selling that whole thing, which is nothing more than the example
> circuit
> in the datasheet, for 1700 is a bit of a rip-off, IMHO.
>

In fairness my link was to the version also containing a GPSDO.
The price I see on the web for only the distribution amplifier is 960 eur.
Timetech and/or Microsemi are probably better - at a higher cost.


> IIRC your design beats theirs already in performance, doesn't it?
>

Yes, my prototype of the TADD-1 design with an AD8055 op-amp, powered from
a +12VDC battery, and wrapped in alu-foil to shield, looked quite good:
http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/alufoil_and_battery.png
The 6502 is better and I opened it up to find it has an LMH6702 input stage
and LMH6609 output stages.
I will try that at some point.

Anders
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