Re: [time-nuts] PPS offset between GPS receivers
I use a tee connection and terminated 100 foot (33 m )piece of RG58 coax for a known delay to the stop pulse. Don L Azelio Boriani Yes, this is a good test: to evaluate how your preferred uP can perform as a time interval counter, you can hook two GPDSOs' PPS to it and see the result. The best would be to have at hand also a real TIC (HP53132A, PM6681, SR620 or similar) and compare. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi A lot depends on exactly what the interrupt structure is. It may also depend on the phase of the cpu clock relative to the pps signal. What's reasonably sure is that there is indeed some offset between the two where the answer is indeed ft's random. Another thing to check - how wide is the random region? Bob On Dec 7, 2012, at 9:19 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: One more test to try. Connect one PPS signal to both GPIO ports and see how close to zero offset you get. It would likely be random which gets read first. On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Gabs Ricalde gsrica...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, As Tom suggested, I redid the test with less than 1 ft. of wire from the PPS output to the GPIO without any logic gates or line receivers. Same result, the SKG25A1 was 2 microseconds ahead of the 58534A. Without any other way of testing, I would probably trust the output of the timing receiver more than the SkyNav module. Anyway the SkyNav board is an inexpensive unit and I wouldn't mind setting an offset in ntpd. I don't have a scope yet, and a low jitter PPS GPIO is the closest thing I have to a TIC. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Alternatives
but we could use a less expensive one. a simple light interruptor senses the end of flow, a robust servo turns over the hourglass for the next cycle. our favorite arduino counts seconds from the gps, and adjusts the turnover appropriately. If magnetite sand is used, an external magnetic field can provide rate correction for phase control rather than frequency control? A smaller version would generate the perfect 3 minute egg. o gosh maybe this thread is petering out in my head don L Bob Camp Hi That is an impressive hourglass. In the context of the thought experiment swap offer - no, mine is not a work of art. It's only value is as a time keeper. Bob On Dec 6, 2012, at 10:37 PM, DaveH i...@blackmountainforge.com wrote: If you had an Ikepod, I might be interested. http://www.ablogtowatch.com/ikepod-hourglass-time-for-art/ http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2011/3/29/the-ikepod-hourglass-by-marc-newson-q uite-possibly-the-coole.html http://www.ikepod.com/ Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 18:23 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Alternatives Hi Here's another way to look at this: An hourglass full of sand (with some attention) and a cesium standard are both ways to answer the question what time is it?. Let's say you need a new $40,000 tube replacement in your 5371 and management asks what else can we do?. An hour glass is indeed a something else we can do. They both deliver an answer to the time of day question. Without defining what you actually *need* to do, they are both valid approaches. The problem comes when you look at the $40,000 repair charge and decide that building an hour glass is a lot cheaper. While that's true, it's far from the whole story. One way to quickly work some of this out is a simple swap proposition. Would anybody on the list trade their (working) cesium for my (working) hourglass? I'll pay shipping.. Bob On Dec 6, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com wrote: I think only TIMER2 on the AVR has the clk/4 limitation. The other timers can count at full speed.I know that I have counted at 8-12 MHz before... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Alternatives
Chris: The question I have again is about a simple phase detector. I did ask if the arduino interrupt ports could be used as a phase detector; one on the GPS and one on the OXCO. Too much jitter? If the 12 MHz clock is too slow, would an 80 MHz clock ARM arduino style processor work? I'm simply too new at this to decide. Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Alternatives
Chris: yes, dividing would have to be done. Doesn't TVB have a simple divider block? You don't really have to close the difference, just maintain it? Don L Chris Albertson You'd have to seriously divide down the output from the 10MHz OCXO if you were going to use it as an interrupt. Maybe to divide by 10,000? and even at the higher clock rate you'd still have poor resolution. I image each interrupt handler would sample some internal counter and the background task would look at the delta between the two and adjust the DAC to drive the OCXO to close the difference. The resolution would be (maybe?) a handful of clock cycles. Given enough time, say a 1000 second period it might wrk well enough. I can't know without doing a more detailed design On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: Chris: The question I have again is about a simple phase detector. I did ask if the arduino interrupt ports could be used as a phase detector; one on the GPS and one on the OXCO. Too much jitter? If the 12 MHz clock is too slow, would an 80 MHz clock ARM arduino style processor work? I'm simply too new at this to decide. Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Alternatives
Good thought, Bob. AD9548 $27, eval board a whopping $250, get a thunderbolt :-). The eval board has a lot of SMA's on it... Don L Bob Camp Hi If all you want is a something locked to a GPS: Take the pps from the GPS and hook it to an AD9548. You probably will need a 50 cent CPU to set up the registers. No muss, no fuss, nothing to invent or design. Weather it does what you need to do is an entirely different question. Without a defined objective / need / performance goal this could go on for a couple hundred years .. Bob On Dec 6, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: What if the OCXO had a sine wave output and then you used the PPS leading edge to gate the sine wave to a sample and hold. then the sample is measured by the Arduino's ADC? I think(?) you get a 10-bit ADC or is it 8-bits. The problem is the required speed of the sample and hold, maybe not easy to build -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Alternatives
I wonder if two hardware interrupts on the Arduino itself could not be used for phase locking? There's also an ARM 80 MHz version of the Arduino package that might be applied, admittedly at higher cost... Don Jim Lux On 12/5/12 12:06 AM, Bruce Griffiths wrote: Hal Murray wrote: albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: What is the simplest phase detecter that could work? I think only that, and then a duouble oven crystal from eBay, a GPS and and Arduido. You also need a good D2A to drive the EFC on the osc. A synchronous filter of a suitably level translated (CMOS analog switch plus low noise reference) PWM output should work well. True.. but I think the OP was wanting something that doesn't require designing a circuit and building it. So what you really want is a high performance DAC on a Arduino shield, or, alternately, a high performance DAC on a cheap eval board that you can easily hook up to an Ardino type processor. This is a bit trickier.. Lots of ADC stuff out there, not so much DAC stuff. http://embeddednewbie.blogspot.com/2011/02/review-of-arduino-dac-solutions.html seems to have a number of approaches. Adafruit has a shield with a Microchip MCP4921 12 bit serial dac here's a 16 bit solution http://www.shaduzlabs.com/article-12.html but it's a build it yourself solution. If you're not size/mass/power constrained, you might be able to find an inexpensive used programmable power supply. I do this using a Prologix controller driving Agilent E3646 power supplies.. Big, Expensive, etc. but it does work. Yes the Aruino is expensive compared to a bare uP chip but using one, I thin you could build a GPSDO without a PCB and the Arduino's USB connection could be usful for power and logging/control. I wouldn't want to power a GPSDO from USB. It will get power cycled every time I need to work on the logging PC. Besides, you only get 2.5 watts. The oven will probably take more than that during warm-up. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PTTI 2012, part 2
I agree, Bill. I do have some elk in the front yard, but they are no help... Don L Bill Dailey No MIT here. Sadly. Sent from mobile On Dec 4, 2012, at 8:49 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Basements the key. So for me bigger is better. Heck if its a rack thats ok. It gets interesting in what types of components you can use if you are willing to go larger. Great point on the laser and optics. Funny thing is for small change you can actually get used optics bench components at least at the last MIT flea I ran across the items. They were snapped up by the way. From what I have seen of time-nuttery and Hydrogen masers I am actually not all that sure its beyond this group. Regards Paul On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Indeed, you likely won't get USNO grade with a shoe box sized part. You can get one to work and do quite good ADEV. No, I haven't done it, I'm just going on what I've been told. The main point being that for a basement project - smaller is probably lower cost. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 9:19 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement; Bill Dailey Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PTTI 2012, part 2 In message CAMPhiorJihW9z6-q0+Qfd+GPLjs6e8_ovWrDxQoxV=92hgj...@mail.gmail.com , Bill Dailey writes: If you look at the papers on portable rubidium fountains they are significantly bigger than a shoebox (65 cm). Diameter is controlled by dispersion of the launched atoms (=recovery rate) and the layers of shielding. 65cm looked like close to a minimum for USNO grade, amateurs could probably make do with less shielding. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time security musing - attacking the clock itself
to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] EIP545A 18GHz counter query
snip I'm in the same position as you regarding testing at high frequencies. You might be able to get a signal at the second or third harmonic of your generator by cranking the level to the maximum and then using the counter's Band 3 frequency limits feature to only look at that frequency. snip You can also get a step recovery diode and generate a bunch of harmonics... DonL -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] EIP545A 18GHz counter query
Hi Ed: I have one of these too; it takes in about 200 MHz, output 0.4-1.8 GHz. ten ohm coil, also a heater at 28 v. I also have a filter that uses about the same voltage/current. I did find an LED/battery charger module from China, pretty cheap, that purports to be pwm adjustable; we'll see. I'll try driving it with an Arduino. Don Ed Palmer Hi Don, Yes, I've heard of SRDs. I think every Rb standard uses them. I recently purchased a YIG Multiplier that includes an SRD followed by a YIG filter. But, from my reading, there are some significant issues that you run into when driving an SRD. I'm still playing with mine. Ed On 11/27/2012 2:15 PM, Don Latham wrote: snip I'm in the same position as you regarding testing at high frequencies. You might be able to get a signal at the second or third harmonic of your generator by cranking the level to the maximum and then using the counter's Band 3 frequency limits feature to only look at that frequency. snip You can also get a step recovery diode and generate a bunch of harmonics... DonL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A no 10MHz RF output?
Look on Didier's site or TvB's and you should find the hack that turns the 5680A into a variable output frequency device; there's a DDS with an rs232 interface. All is not lost? Don L Volker Esper Am 25.11.2012 18:29, schrieb James Peroulas: Message: 3 Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:10:02 -0600 From: Ed Palmered_pal...@sasktel.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A no 10MHz RF output? Message-ID:50b0ff6a.7030...@sasktel.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed I have a similar unit that I picked up a few years ago. It only has a 1 PPS output. That's the way it was designed. There are so many different versions of this stupid model that it's impossible to be sure what you're buying until you get it on your bench. If yours is like mine, the DDS is putting out 2^23 Hz (~8.39 MHz) which then goes through a fixed divider to 1 Hz. You can access the 8 MHz signal via a tiny socket on the DDS board. There is info online on how to modify the unit to bring that signal out to a connector and program it for other frequencies. If you change the frequency, the 1 PPS also changes frequency. Ed Ugh... Hopefully he'll let me return it. This is the first time I've bought an $80 item from China and I've been burned :( JP If this is so, it has to be a very unfortunate mischance. I've been trading with China numerous times, there was nothing to fault on. Cheers Volker ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Nifty MINI TIC for DMTD work
uh, ok, how do we order the boards? Don L cdel...@juno.com MINI-TIC for DMTD work Hi Everyone! I've been testing a Miniature 2 channel TIC that Bert Kehren and Juerg Koegel and Richard Mc Corkle have designed. It has 9 digits/Sec. and with a 1HZ offset in the DMTD unit gives a resolution of 1X10-15th at 10 MHz, 2X10-15 with a 5 MHz input, when measuring Allan deviation. The 200 MHz version doubles the resolution. Of course the baseline performance of the DMTD unit and the stability of the DMTD reference determines the actual accuracy you can obtain. (My dual mixer has a baseline of approx. 8X10-14th at 1 second and my best reference is 4X10-13th at 1 second.) The MINI takes a 5 or 10 MHz reference that only has to be stable to parts in 10-8th/sec. I used a neat 14PIN ovenized DIP clock chip I got on eBay and recently discussed on the list. The reference is multiplied to 100Mhz for use as the counters clock. The MINI is about 2.5 by 2 inches and has only 5 chips. Two opto couplers an op amp for two analog channels are also on the board. If run on 5 volt a 3.3 V regulator is also on the board. Power required is +5VDC 0.05 A and +- 12 (for the RS232 interface) It also has two pins you can individually ground to measure the period of the beat note from either channel. This allows you to adjust the offset frequency quickly and accurately. I installed the MINI into a 1U chassis with the power supply and also added heartbeat LEDS for each channel to show the presence of the 1PPS inputs. I have plotted several Rubidium and many Quartz using the MINI simultaneously with a SR620 counter/timer. The plots are identical! So much so that I am going to retire and sell my SR620! I understand work is complete on a 4 channel counters and Bluetooth interface, and work is ongoing on a LCD. The MINI material cost is less than $25.00 depending on how many boards are ordered! Resoution based on clock frequency and beat frequency: Carrier[MHz] Beat [Hz] HeterodyneTIC [ns] Resolution 10101.00E+06101.00E-14 1011.00E+07101.00E-15 1011.00E+0755.00E-16 10101.00E+0655.00E-15 5105.00E+05102.00E-14 515.00E+06102.00E-15 515.00E+0651.00E-15 5105.00E+0551.00E-14 Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50aa82cb1214a2ca03f8st04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Warning if buying from directly from Agilent via eBay with Paypal.
I'm wondering if agilentused is really part of the Agilent corp or whatever it's called? or an independent company entirely? My only and last $.02! Don L J. Forster Not if you just walk into a bank and open an account with $100 cash. My point is not fraud, but that PayPal is not safe. -John == On 11/17/2012 4:37 PM, J. Forster wrote: Perhaps. That opens the possibility of linking a PayPal account to a bank account, then zeroing the balance. Somehow, I doubt that actually works. -John Then you pay the overdraft charge... -- mailto:o...@ozindfw.net Oz POB 93167 Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Wanted - AN/URQ-10 manual
Forth forever!!! Don L M. Simon Can't help you with the manual but I just wanted to say that the 1051 was one of my favorites. Loved the PLLs. I worked on an upgrade for Stewart Warner back in the early 80s. As part of a prototype I put two Z-80 systems in the space between the front panel and the main gear. Part of its purpose was to interface to the 1553 bus. I also implemented a DDS in TTL for fine tuning. I still like tube front ends for mil radios for ruggedness. But you can't sell it because of wear out issues. The Navy didn't buy in to the prototype. Collins beat us. The code for the processors was written in Forth. The Navy code inspector said it was some of the best written code he had seen in several years. We also could complete a design cycle - including code - in a month. The Collins boys had a team 10X as large as ours (we had 3). And it took them 6 months to complete a design cycle using C. I was project manager and lead engineer. I was mostly hardware but I did some software and rode heard on the coders. Forth was my idea. I also put a Z-80 inside the companion 1KW transmitter. The RF inside the transmitter was a few volts per inch. I used a sealed box and a lot of feed through filters. It worked the first time. I also worked with the gear in Navy ETA school. And went on to become a Nuke so I didn't see that radio gear again until about 15 years later. Simon Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] thunderbolt
I'm looking for a Thunderbolt or similar with defunct 10 MHz oscillator for a weird project. Anybody have something at rockbottom price? Don L -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Hackable hardware for timenuttery
Preorder? ...for the sark was a boojum, you see ... Don Poul-Henning Kamp If one were to rearrange the input circuit a little bit, and give it some new firmware, this looks very close to platform for time measurement... http://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2012/10/10/preorder-now-pocket-size-antenna-analyzer-sark-110/ Ohh, and the HAMs would probably find it useful as it is :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Timing performance of servers
Look out for TNC connectors and 12v on the Symmetricons! Don Bob Camp Hi If: 1) You are in a reasonable location (good sky view) 2) Don't have a great long cable run ( 50') 3) Are only after NTP time Then, you can get away with a pretty simple antenna. I likely won't last as long as a better one out in the weather though. If you shop the auction sites you can get reasonable antennas (Lucent / Trimble / Syneregy) for $30. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Sarah White Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:44 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Timing performance of servers On 10/24/2012 6:47 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Fellow time-nuts, When spending time on a conference last week, I heard one interesting comment that they lost data due to bad timing on their Windows servers. Now, I know that the standard Windows uses SNTP in order to achieve the goal of having the timing of the machines sufficiently aligned to allow Kerberos authentication. SNTP suffice for that, as it needs to be a handful of minutes in line. If you need better performance than that, you should use NTP (and then download and install Meinbergs Windows-client for NTP). Then again, I would point out that for this type of data, it would most probably be better served on a Linux box. What should be a nice wake-up call for them would be a summation of how different strategies would give them clock precision of sufficient grade. So, does anyone know of such measurements presented anywhere? There are bits and pieces, but the ideal for this case would be if they where collected in one page/paper. This is an awareness thing, so that people can do a little more well-informed choices. Cheers, Magnus 1) Thanks magnus. This is something I'm quite interested in: I'm not the only one doing testing for Microsoft NT 5.x and higher against NTP-type synchronization. It's actually high enough quality such that a Windows server running NTP with a refclock provides significantly better time than the public NTP servers. Here are a few writeups I've been using for reference, and I've been testing and duplicating some of the listed configurations, hoping for my own writeups: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/NTP-on-Windows-Vista.html (basic timing) http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/NTP-on-Windows-serial-port.html (connected to refclock, timing was better than 50 microseconds jitter, averaging less than 10 microseconds) Am actively in the process of getting everything to replace my own navigation GPS refclock with a timing mode one. At this point I just need to find a good antenna... 2) ... Changing subject slightly: Regardless of if I run linux vs bsd vs windows (will be testing multiple configurations of each, and doing writeups over the next few years as I test more and learn) I'll need a good external antenna for the new GPS I'm going to run. Anyone think I can get by with anything cheaper than a symmetricom 58532a antenna? I can probably get one (used) for less than $50 on ebay, but I'd really prefer to source something more entry-level for closer to $5 or $10 if possible. Any suggestions? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] A nice auction in the Seattle area
Actually, I was thinking more of Murphy's law :-) Sorry it got taken the wrong way... DaveH Hi Don I have been going to James G. Murphy auctions for the last 20 years (the Seattle Space Needle remodel was my first) and love them. Zero shilling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill and they will let someone back out of a closed deal if there was a misunderstanding. Once. Do you have anything substantive to offer? DaveH -- who still has his six original Charles and Ray Eames chairs from that auction. $20 for the set... -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Latham Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 22:05 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] A nice auction in the Seattle area Be vewy vewy careful! This auction run by Murphy... DaveH Some test equipment and o-scopes are being auctioned off November 15th in Kenmore (just North of Seattle) Murphy is a great auction house. http://murphyauction.com/Auction/Details/414 I'm planning to be there. DaveH ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] rs232
Ok, if you don't like RS232: http://ics.nxp.com/support/documents/interface/pdf/UFm-I2C-Gaming.pdf Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] A nice auction in the Seattle area
Be vewy vewy careful! This auction run by Murphy... DaveH Some test equipment and o-scopes are being auctioned off November 15th in Kenmore (just North of Seattle) Murphy is a great auction house. http://murphyauction.com/Auction/Details/414 I'm planning to be there. DaveH ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 57600 baud rate with Basic etc
Commodore computers in the longago dimdark past serialized the GPIB. They started out with the GPIB as the disk drive and printer interface from the get-go. I used a Commodore as a cheap controller when Hp GPIB controllers cost a small fortune. Don David What aspects of USB would HP have used? Just the complexity of a USB OHCI/UHCI would have been economically prohibitive compared to an asynchronous serial UART. An OHCI/UHCI is more like an ethernet controller and those took up the space of entire expansion boards initially. What they did come up with was HP-IB although I would have preferred it to be serial and galvanically isolated. On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 10:28:46 -0400, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I have never figured out why HP did not develop USB in 1969? Not very far sighted. ;-) Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 57600 baud rate with Basic???
Have a look at Robot Basic http://www.robotbasic.org/ he price is right, it's easy to use, and transportable. Don cdel...@juno.com Hi, I'm currently using a GWBasic program at 9600 Baud to get 1 second T.I. data (12 digits) from an SR620 counter, display the reading , put the reading into a file, name the file sequentialy, and either save or delete the file via a function key. I'm switching to a new counter that outputs at 57600 Baud (9 digits). Is there a version of Basic I can use that would support that 57600 Baud rate? Thanks, Corby Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/507462c97549762c919e3st02duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] jackson labs.
Thank you very much, Giovanni. I'm forwarding this informal quote to a group, trust this is OK to do. Very reasonable! Thanks again Don GIOVANNI D'ANDREA Hi Don, Sorry about the delay, 1. PN: 1009302 LC_XO GPSDO W/TCXO $355.00 If you need a formal quote please send me you contact info. Let me know if you need anything else. Thanks, Giovanni -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Centering ocxo
Please don't adjust the dampening, you might find it floating... adjust the damping if you need to change the settling time. Yours in pedantry-one of my hot buttons :-) Don Bill Dailey ok.. So that may very well be true of this unit. Electrical tuning is 3E-7 0 - 5v (+/-). It also lists a digital tuning range of +- 3Hz at 10MHz. Correct me if I am wrong but that appears to mean 3Hz electrical and 6Hz digital tuning range. I am not doing digital tuning but thought I would throw that out there. I have been trying to optimize parameters on this Fury board but it seems my optimization has just been increasing the deviation. Running 1.8 ns sd overnight with an average TI of about 26ns (was with my optimized settings)...the original settings were giving me a much lower deviation...I didnt log it but looking at the graph of frequency in excel I would say probably between 0.1-0.6 ns. I just put it back on the original settings and am letting it settle now. Was adjusting Dampening, EFCSCALE and DAC gain. My observations reveal dampening makes it a bit slower to respond and perhaps settles it some, The efcscale seems to act as pure gain on top of the baseline dac gain which is essentially determined by the tuning range as you referred to. What I saw with a low efcscale is that the TI was higher but the SD lower... with efc scale higher the TI was lower but the SD suffered. Since my goal here is low noise and very good short term stability I prefer the lower efcscale (low gain with low SD). Let me know if I have any gross conceptual errors here or if I am looking at this properly. Doc KX0O On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 11:54 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: docdai...@gmail.com said: I am ok for awhile but how do you center the efc of an ocxo? I understand there is something (screw) to adjust the ocxo so it is approximately on freq with 2.5v efc. Specific oscillator datum-c. I have he datasheet but doesn't say coarse frequency adjust this screw or some such. There may not be a coarse adjustment. If the tuning range is big enough to cover the aging over your design life, you don't need one. There is a tradeoff between adjustment range and the number of bits you need in a DAC to get a required accuracy. Suppose I have an adjustment range of 1 Hz (peak to peak) on a 10 MHz oscillator. That's 1 part is 10^7. If I have a 10 bit DAC, I can adjust to 1 part is 10^10. A 20 bit DAC can get to 1 part is 10^13. But if the tuning range is 10 Hz, the same 20 bit DAC setup only gets you to 1 part is 10^12. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Doc Bill Dailey KXØO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator frequency?
Hi Ken: I have two of these, and had the same problem some years ago (see archives time-nuts). Nothing seemed to need this frequency. Fast forward to present. I'm using an ICOM 260A 2m all-mode xceiver for if in a 13 cm moonbounce system. The xtal frequency for the basic synthesizer in these units is 5.12 MHz. I played around with the idea of separate better xtals, until one day I was cleaning out. DOH! I now have a use for those weird OCXO's! Soo... never throw anything away, and never dismay, for all weird stuff WILL be useful someday. There's a coarse adjustment of some kind on these units. 73, Don AJ7LL ken johnson Hi, I have a tcxo that I recovered from a very old, suitcase-sized gps receiver some years ago. The oscillator is marked ERC Eros-750-MA110, with an output frequency of 5.119155MHz. I have tried to think of a use for for it but failed. I played with the numbers but could not find anything useful, so I thought I would try the collective wisdom of the list to see if anyone could come up with a use for such an oddball frequency. As an aside, it was fascinating to see a gps in discrete components, lots of mixers (I recovered no less than 10, MCL ASK1 mixers and there are still several left on the boards) on something like 7 or 8 , 200mm square, gold-plated plug-in boards on a very nice card frame with many, many interconnecting small-diameter coaxes with gold-plated connectors. Pity I wasn't interested in time-nuttery at the time, it probably worked before I reduced it to component parts! Thanks, Ken www.vk7krj.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] They're baaaack!
And I will not pay telephone prices for wideband data service. Pfui. Don gary There is also a proposal to pay commercial TV stations to move together as a cluster, then chop off part of the TV band for wireless. The current market simply will never fill the allotted DTV spectrum. [Cable/satellite/internet-streaming filled the void.] It is a bit nauseating to pay the broadcasts for spectrum that they never paid for in the first place. While I don't favor paying the broadcasters, I like everything else about this approach. Further, I'd get rid of VHF DTV all together. In the transition period, we did just fine when they were all on UHF. Save VHF for public service. I'd even grant the old VHF users an extra site/channel or two to make up for lost range. Currently the wireless companies in the US, at least the two major GSM providers, are dumping the 2G service to recover that spectrum. It is probably cheaper to migrate the 2G customers to 3G, then convert the old spectrum to LTE, than to buy new spectrum for LTE. As I have stated here before, there is already a satellite mobile service with ground transmitters, namely XM and Sirius. That system works today, and one of the bands is completely redundant after the merger. Let Light Squared pay off Sirius XM if they need a functional band. They could use the money. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RFX GPSDO - Anybody played with one of these?
It's been like that since the first op-amps and RTL. The new devices are all made with Nonobtanium and Administratium. Thomas Valerio Actually, it was in Nuts Volts as well, and I was thinking about posting a similar query to the list, but my incentive and my interest pretty much went negative when my cursory investigation revealed that price information appeared to be non-existent. IMHO for pretty much *everything* that is for sale, if you have to ask for the price it is a scam. The message that I get from non-existent pricing information is that this product's price/value proposition can't stand on it's own, the only way you will be convinced to purchase, at a usually inflated price point, is after the snake oil sales people have had a chance to get their spiel out. Thomas Valerio Offhand I can not think of any reason it could not exist but if you have to ask for the price, then I suspect it will be too expensive. On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 19:40:47 -0700, Skip Withrow skip.with...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Nuts, Just saw this mentioned in Circuit Cellar, just wondering if it really exists, how much they are asking, and if anyone has played with one yet? http://www.rfx.co.uk/pdfs/GPS_OCXO_1300_10_module.pdf Regards, Skip Withrow ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RFX GPSDO - Anybody played with one of these?
Hello Hal and all: Here's the answer I got: Don, A single unit would set you back $465.00 and delivery would be in the region of 6 weeks. Best Regards Steven Wilson (#21490;#24093;#25991;) Technical Director RFX Limited Unit 11A, Oakbank Park, Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland,EH53 0TH, U.K. Tel - +44 (0)1506 439222, Fax - +44 (0)1506 439333 email/skype: steven.wil...@rfx.co.uk www.rfx.co.u Perhaps time-nuts would be interested in a group purchase? Don Latham Hal Murray t...@westwood-tech.com said: information appeared to be non-existent. IMHO for pretty much *everything* that is for sale, if you have to ask for the price it is a scam. Yes, when it says call for pricing, I usually drop interest. But I wouldn't say scam. How about not targeted at my corner of the market? I can think of several reasons for not publishing a price. 1) The product doesn't really exist yet. They have done the research but haven't finished up and handed off to manufacturing. They are looking for initial customers so they can tune things to fit what customers really need (and are willing to pay for). You want the tall skinny version? Fine, we'll make that first. How tall? 2) The product is tricky to use. They want to make sure it will work well in your application. 3) The product has lots of interacting options/parameters. They only stock a few combinations. If you want to buy more than a handful, you can get a better price by picking the right options. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] messy workbenches
yep, and you always wind up working on the inch of bench just in front of your belly... Don Latham's law of horizontal surfaces states Any bare horizontal surface immediately becomes covered with junk. Rex Another serious contender in the messy but productive realm was Bob Pease. http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/social-mania-blog/4217103/How-messy-is-your-desk- Quite ironic that Bob died while leaving the memorial for Jim Williams. http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/readerschoice/4368147/Analog-engineering-legend-Bob-Pease-killed-in-car-crash On 9/28/2012 6:48 PM, Grant Saviers wrote: George's is a far distant competitor to the bench of the late Jim Williams, see http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/an-analog-life-remembering-jim-williams/ Which was on display at the Computer History Museum and just was returned to Linear Tech. Grant Saviers ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] messy workbenches
Proof of an axiom: Great minds run on the same track. :-) (although strictly speaking, an axiom requires no proof...) Don Max Robinson Don wrote. Latham's law of horizontal surfaces states Any bare horizontal surface immediately becomes covered with junk. I thought I held the copyrights on that one. Oh well, never mind. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Don Latham d...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] messy workbenches yep, and you always wind up working on the inch of bench just in front of your belly... Don Latham's law of horizontal surfaces states Any bare horizontal surface immediately becomes covered with junk. Rex Another serious contender in the messy but productive realm was Bob Pease. http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/social-mania-blog/4217103/How-messy-is-your-desk- Quite ironic that Bob died while leaving the memorial for Jim Williams. http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/readerschoice/4368147/Analog-engineering-legend-Bob-Pease-killed-in-car-crash On 9/28/2012 6:48 PM, Grant Saviers wrote: George's is a far distant competitor to the bench of the late Jim Williams, see http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/an-analog-life-remembering-jim-williams/ Which was on display at the Computer History Museum and just was returned to Linear Tech. Grant Saviers ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB format...
This is a job for Raspberry Pi... Don Majdi S. Abbas On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:13:22AM -0700, Tom Van Baak wrote: My reading of the document(s) is that the new format will in fact allow WWVB to be used as a frequency standard with even greater precision then before, though not with unmodified legacy WWVB carrier receivers. My hope is that one of you will produce a clever reference design for such a TF receiver make it available to the group. It sounds like a very fun DSP project; one that we can all learn from. Bonus points for making it an open-source Arduino shield. Making it work with both DCF77 and WWVB would also be a plus. DSP would be good, although I also think an microcontroller implementation could be interesting. Atmel's ARM MCUs look like they'd be good candidates for this sort of thing. (Pretty fast, enough storage to do interesting things with it, and a fast enough ADC for 60 KHz.) I've got a couple of these that I might use as a development platform: https://www.olimex.com/Products/ARM/Atmel/SAM7-P256/ Has anyone come up with a reasonable algorithm to implement in a microcontroller? (DSP development kits are a bit more spendy than I'd like to invest in a prototype. :) If nothing else, a well-documented hack for existing Spectracom and HP WWVB receivers would be welcome. A third idea is a translator that receives the new carrier format and re-transmits the old carrier format; that way no mods need to be made to legacy WWVB receivers at all, regardless of age. It would be similar to the way the G2G (GPS to GOES) translator worked. Extra credit for adding back the 45 degree hourly phase shift. I'm not sure I want the phase shift back. Some references don't handle it gracefully. That said, I have the following victims (time interval and TOD): - TrueTime 60DC and 60LF - Spectracom Netclock/2 As far as I'm concerned I'm willing to modify any of these at this point. I've got a rough idea how to modify the 60DC: seems like you could double the 60 KHz LO after the IRIG output divisor chain, as it's headed into the PLL, and double the incoming signal after the RF amp. This is convenient since it's running between assemblies, anyway. Does anyone have a manual or schematic for the 60LF? I could probably figure it out, but it'll be easier with documentation. Thoughts on modifications are welcome, I'd even be happy to compile them all into a public list somewhere. --msa ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] usb gps devices
Have any of the 'nuts hacked one of the very simple very cheap GPS USB devices for your car top to see if there is an available 1 sec tick inside one of them somewhere? I have one that I intend to look at, but I'll have to get a scope and teenyweeny probe outside to do it, so, if there is a readily available something, I'd like to know. Thanks! Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 Replacement GPS Receiver Card
TTL to USB serial adapters on ebay for very reasonable. Don Dan Kemppainen On 9/17/2012 6:03 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: OK, you can test a VP Oncore GPS receiver alone if you have a mean to translate the TTL serial port to a regular RS232 for the PC. This can be done with a MAX232 chip (or equivalent). Then the pinout (refer to the FYI, I've had really good luck with these over the years: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/TTL-232R-5V/768-1028-ND/2003493 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/TTL-232R-3V3/768-1015-ND/1836393 The big thing is the drivers are really well written. The seem to be able to talk to anything I point them at. Never found any software they don't like (yet) ... I keep a few around, just in case. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PLL behavior
won't it depend almost entirely on the charge pump filter? Don Jim Lux I'm looking for info on behavior of a PLL (with VCXO) when the reference comes and goes periodically. When the reference is gone, the PLL will flywheel according to whatever the loop filter does. (we can turn off the input to the filter, so we're not trying to track noise).. What I'm particularly interested in is the behavior in the PLL when the reference returns. The overall situation is where we are trying to make a frequency/phase measurement over 10-100 seconds, where the reference has a 50% duty cycle, and is on for a second, off for a second. I can fairly simply model this, or just try it, but I'm looking for some references to an analytical approach. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantization error
Michael: Actually implementing a 16 bit DAC to its 1-bit minimum resolution will be headache enough. You will gain a real education in good grounding practice, shielding, power supply stability and noise, and other Murphy intrusion. A 32 bit DAC IMHO, is impossible, and that's the name of that tune. Don Chris Albertson On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Michael Tharp g...@partiallystapled.com wrote: Finally, do people think a 16 bit DAC is adequate or should I consider building a 32-bit one? I looked at a few designs when putting this together but decided to keep it simple until things were up and running. Having a 32-bit DAC would give you enough range so that you could drop in any OCXO you might have. But if you can have trimmer resisters to selected for your specif OCXO then 16-bits should be enough. If it were me, I'd want the DAC steps to be smaller than what the phase detector can measure. Said another way a 32-bit DAC might eliminate the need for scale and offset trimmer resistors. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises oneBay
Two things about this. First, needs to be clearly stated that buyer pays for return shipping. I've seen this stated. Second, I note that of late, sellers are padding the hell out of the sales through excessive, even in some cases grotesque, shipping costs. They're bf high enough as it is... Don Paul Flinders On 11/09/2012 13:17, David Kirkby wrote: If a buyer changes his mind, he will usually have to pay shipping both ways. I say usually, because under the Distance Seller Regulations in the UK, if an individual (non-business) buys an item at a fixed price from a business, and they get it and don't like it, the seller is legally obliged to pay the shipping both ways. Just to correct a small error here - the seller is not legally bound to pay postage both ways, the DSR allows the seller to specify that the buyer pays the return postage - as long as they do so before the sale. As someone who occasionally manages to sell items on ebay for (extremely) modest profit I would never try to wriggle out of my obligations under the DSR but paying for the postage one way can wipe out any revenue from an item, even if re-sold. Paying both ways is unfair to small sellers if it's purely a change of mind, although I agree I should pay IF it is my mistake or an item actually manages to arrive faulty despite the considerable care I take to test and, if necessary, repair items before sale. Larger distance sellers, can factor a few percent returns into their sales - I just don't do the volume to do so without pricing myself out of the market. As to the packaging for your item I feel your pain - I hate it when items arrive poorly packed. Fortunately I've been lucky so far and nothing has been signifcantly damaged. Sending I always use fat bubble wrap to give about 2 coverage, then peanuts packed into bags so that they can't flow around the item, for heavier items I us expanded polystyrene if I have it to hand and I've been toying with the idea of experimenting with expanding foam to give custom moulded support. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
Oh Boy. Just occurred to me; what reference is used in the Tardis Don Tom Van Baak Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David Ah, done with it you say? No, that only begins a whole new set of problems. Setting to UTC begs the question: what time frame are you in and whose definition of a second is your watch counting. Traveling across timezones with a good clock brings you interesting problems, at the sub-microsecond level at least, due to earth rotation and latitude and due to relativistic effects of altitude and velocity. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] coupled oscillator book available online
Thanks, Jim. My other SARA head thanks you too! there's a lot of info in the other pubs as well. One of my uncles worked on the Goldstone antenna steering systems in the longago dreamtime... Don Jim Lux A retired coworker of mine (Pogo) just published a book through JPL's DESCANSO series Coupled-Oscillator Based Active-Array Antennas: Ronald J. Pogorzelski and Apostolos Georgiadis http://descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/Monograph/series11_chapter.cfm?force_external=0 Why is this interesting to time-nuts? There's a whole raft of stuff in there about coupled oscillators, phase noise of injection locked and coupled oscillators, modeling and analysis of them.. And, it's free to download. (although I'm sure you could buy a hardcopy from Wiley.. Don't know who gets the royalties. Or a copy translated into Chinese, for that matter..) Jim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?
I have a gps called ambicom with a usb that works with Msoft streets directly. Don Bob Camp Hi It's not a great receiver, but it works. Back when it first came out, the price was pretty good for what you got. Time marches on and you now can get some very good / very cheap stand alone units. Bob On Aug 31, 2012, at 5:03 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote: On 31 August 2012 20:35, saidj...@aol.com wrote: Dave, that depends on which uBlox the unit supports. There are basically three different sizes: AMY, LEA, and NEO. They also sell chip-sets, but only to very large volume customers. It plugs in on USB. Somewhere I read it had to be ublox compatible, but having looked in the manual, it says: - GPS (Global Positioning System) allows you to stamp each data trace with your physical position in latitude/longitude/elevation format. This can be useful when making measurements on cell towers or other antennas at remote locations. NOTE This feature is usable ONLY with the GPS receiver that is shipped with Microsoft Streets and Trips and AutoRoute. The GPS receiver is NOT available from Agilent. Only the GPS USB receiver is used with the FieldFox. Therefore, it is NOT necessary to purchase the very latest version of the map software. - So it seems I need to purchase Microsoft Streets and Trips with the optional GPS device, which is only $70 in total. http://www.microsoft.com/streets/en-us/default.aspx Does anyone know how good/bad that device is? I'd be using it in the UK 99% of the time. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] oscillators
Elecraft seems to be having some trouble with the KX3 stability for WSJT on 6m. They also have a temp sensor on the bard, apparently and are also trying this out. I don't know any more about it than that. Don Jim Lux On 8/30/12 9:33 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The fundamental / third approach is one of several possible ways to go. You can also run an SC on the B and C modes to get thermometer data. Early implementations used a pair of independent blanks, one cut to be a good thermometer. Some have even gone as far as to mount a thermistor on the crystal. I've used the sensor on oscillator can technique very recently on a software defined radio. Over the next year, I'll get some data on how well it works in use. The idea is to use a low power TCXO and a sensor, rather than an OCXO, to meet a fairly tight frequency requirement (a few hundred Hz out of 2 GHz) The TCXO can get you do a few ppm or better. The sensor should let me get about an order of magnitude better, and I need to measure the temperature anyway, and it's easy to integrate with the software waveform code. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] oscillators
Bob: Great minds run in the same track :-) Don Bob Camp Hi I think they would do better to just put in a connector to drive it with a TBolt . Bob On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:47 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: Elecraft seems to be having some trouble with the KX3 stability for WSJT on 6m. They also have a temp sensor on the bard, apparently and are also trying this out. I don't know any more about it than that. Don Jim Lux On 8/30/12 9:33 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The fundamental / third approach is one of several possible ways to go. You can also run an SC on the B and C modes to get thermometer data. Early implementations used a pair of independent blanks, one cut to be a good thermometer. Some have even gone as far as to mount a thermistor on the crystal. I've used the sensor on oscillator can technique very recently on a software defined radio. Over the next year, I'll get some data on how well it works in use. The idea is to use a low power TCXO and a sensor, rather than an OCXO, to meet a fairly tight frequency requirement (a few hundred Hz out of 2 GHz) The TCXO can get you do a few ppm or better. The sensor should let me get about an order of magnitude better, and I need to measure the temperature anyway, and it's easy to integrate with the software waveform code. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53131A (not 53151A) trigger problems
thanks,Azelio. Neubig kindly sent the location for the references. Another good company, like the Wenzel site. Don Azelio Boriani www.*axtal*.com/data/publ/*aging*_e.pdf On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: Could you refresh me with the reference or email the paper? I'd like to give it a read. Don Azelio Boriani My starting point is the paper by Neubig on the real vs. predicted aging: experimenting with the model and try to cut it around the Morion or the Oscilloquartz OCXOs. On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:15 AM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: There are ways of generating models, such as ARIMA, using past behavior and the models used to tweak filters and so on. The shifts would have to be accounted for as they occur, seems to me. Now the interesting possibility is that a shift does not alter the underlying model for a given crystal Has to be tested. Don Azelio Boriani So it can't be done... the possibility to discipline an OCXO taking the action from a suitable model should help in speeding up the adjustments and avoiding the humps as seen in the Allan deviation plot. On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: Isn't crystal aging marked by random jumps? perhaps lattice rearrangement? Really hard if not impossible to model... Don Azelio Boriani 30mV are -13dBm so maybe it is why the -20dBm is not a suitable level for that input. I have the 53132A and the 53181A so I can test (with the RS SML01). Is this problem new? Never tested before? About the OCXO aging: OK, I'm interested in the development of a model that can be general enough so that it can be steered, adjusting its parameters, during the OCXO life. The data (to adjust the parameters) will be gathered by the continuous monitoring with the GPS. On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Bernd Neubig bneu...@t-online.de wrote: Hi Azelio, Sorry, the counters are 53131A, not 53151A. The A and B inputs are specified from DC to 225 MHz with a sensitivity of y20 mV (rms) up to 100 MHz, 30 mV (rms) 100 ~ 200 MHz, and 50 mV (rms) 200 ~ 225 MHz. The problem can be at either input alone. The problem is only in the range between 100 MHz and 200 MHz, observed in automatic trigger mode. In manual trigger mode the counter does not trigger at all in that freq range. I cannot tell you an aging model for a particular OCXO, and I doubt if anyone can ;) Aging predictions can only be made on individual OCXO, unit by unit, and the prediction is only valid over a rather limited time. Therefore you must continuously monitor and update your prediction. Best regards Bernd DK1AG -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Azelio Boriani Gesendet: Freitag, 24. August 2012 17:28 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53151A trigger problems From the datasheet: A input 10Hz..125MHz min level 25mVrms (-19dBm) B input min 50MHz, -20dBm the problem is on A input only? Maybe 150MHz for the A input, being beyond the official specifications, requires more signal on one counter than the other. In the past they all were fine? I have read your paper on the correlation between the real and predicted aging of crystal oscillators. I'm trying to find a suitable model for the Morion MV201 OCXO or the Oscilloquartz 8663 to implement a Kalman filter. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Bernd Neubig bneu...@t-online.de wrote: Hi all, I have several HP/Agilent frequency counters 53151A (and 53152A) in my lab. Several of them meanwhile show trigger problems. I have tested the A and B channel between 5 MHz and 200 MHZ at three input levels of -10 dBm, 0 dBm and +10 dBm. Those with trigger problems show erroneous numbers at -10 dBm input level rather selectively, i.e. mostly at 100 MHz, some also at 150 MHz, while the are o.k. Has anyone on this list experienced similar defects and can give a recommendation how to fix/repair them? Best regards Bernd DK1AG www.axtal.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https
Re: [time-nuts] Need usb time interval time for portable bullet chrongraph
amen to that, brother Bob! Don Bob Camp Hi All of the good stuff in a chrono is in the trigger part of it. Even with very well designed triggers, there is a lot of ambiguity (by Time Nut standards) in the measured time of flight. A simple time base and counter is way more than adequate for the digital end of the device. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Latham Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 1:52 AM To: Paul Cianciolo; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Need usb time interval time for portable bullet chrongraph Hi Paul: I'm presently adapting a chrony chronograph because I want to use the triggers for timing and other purposes. They've spent a LOT of engineering time to get proper triggering, and the triggers can easily be pulled off without disturbing the basic unit. The triggers are robust and will drive a piece of coax with a nice pulse at a 5 v level. The cheapest chrony is under $100 and using their triggers will save you HOURS and HOURS of fiddling around, trust me! You can use something like an arduino which has two interrupt inputs to do the time measurement, or as Tom suggests. Don Paul Cianciolo Hello Folks I have been looking at bullet chrographs and wondering if I could get the a usb module to do a interval measurement and display on my laptop. on a yet to be discovered module to calculate the time interval between the pulses? The bullet travels at approx 1050 feet per second. By spacing my gates providing the start stop pulses precisely 1 foot apart I think a direct read out except for the decibal point being in the wrong place . Does this seem fesable? Here is one module I found http://www.weedtech.com/index_eventcount.html Any thoughts on this? The reason for the USB would be for display on my laptop at the firing range Thank you for any help I would really appreciate it PaulC W1VLF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53131A (not 53151A) trigger problems
Isn't crystal aging marked by random jumps? perhaps lattice rearrangement? Really hard if not impossible to model... Don Azelio Boriani 30mV are -13dBm so maybe it is why the -20dBm is not a suitable level for that input. I have the 53132A and the 53181A so I can test (with the RS SML01). Is this problem new? Never tested before? About the OCXO aging: OK, I'm interested in the development of a model that can be general enough so that it can be steered, adjusting its parameters, during the OCXO life. The data (to adjust the parameters) will be gathered by the continuous monitoring with the GPS. On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Bernd Neubig bneu...@t-online.de wrote: Hi Azelio, Sorry, the counters are 53131A, not 53151A. The A and B inputs are specified from DC to 225 MHz with a sensitivity of y20 mV (rms) up to 100 MHz, 30 mV (rms) 100 ~ 200 MHz, and 50 mV (rms) 200 ~ 225 MHz. The problem can be at either input alone. The problem is only in the range between 100 MHz and 200 MHz, observed in automatic trigger mode. In manual trigger mode the counter does not trigger at all in that freq range. I cannot tell you an aging model for a particular OCXO, and I doubt if anyone can ;) Aging predictions can only be made on individual OCXO, unit by unit, and the prediction is only valid over a rather limited time. Therefore you must continuously monitor and update your prediction. Best regards Bernd DK1AG -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Azelio Boriani Gesendet: Freitag, 24. August 2012 17:28 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53151A trigger problems From the datasheet: A input 10Hz..125MHz min level 25mVrms (-19dBm) B input min 50MHz, -20dBm the problem is on A input only? Maybe 150MHz for the A input, being beyond the official specifications, requires more signal on one counter than the other. In the past they all were fine? I have read your paper on the correlation between the real and predicted aging of crystal oscillators. I'm trying to find a suitable model for the Morion MV201 OCXO or the Oscilloquartz 8663 to implement a Kalman filter. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Bernd Neubig bneu...@t-online.de wrote: Hi all, I have several HP/Agilent frequency counters 53151A (and 53152A) in my lab. Several of them meanwhile show trigger problems. I have tested the A and B channel between 5 MHz and 200 MHZ at three input levels of -10 dBm, 0 dBm and +10 dBm. Those with trigger problems show erroneous numbers at -10 dBm input level rather selectively, i.e. mostly at 100 MHz, some also at 150 MHz, while the are o.k. Has anyone on this list experienced similar defects and can give a recommendation how to fix/repair them? Best regards Bernd DK1AG www.axtal.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53131A (not 53151A) trigger problems
Could you refresh me with the reference or email the paper? I'd like to give it a read. Don Azelio Boriani My starting point is the paper by Neubig on the real vs. predicted aging: experimenting with the model and try to cut it around the Morion or the Oscilloquartz OCXOs. On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:15 AM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: There are ways of generating models, such as ARIMA, using past behavior and the models used to tweak filters and so on. The shifts would have to be accounted for as they occur, seems to me. Now the interesting possibility is that a shift does not alter the underlying model for a given crystal Has to be tested. Don Azelio Boriani So it can't be done... the possibility to discipline an OCXO taking the action from a suitable model should help in speeding up the adjustments and avoiding the humps as seen in the Allan deviation plot. On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: Isn't crystal aging marked by random jumps? perhaps lattice rearrangement? Really hard if not impossible to model... Don Azelio Boriani 30mV are -13dBm so maybe it is why the -20dBm is not a suitable level for that input. I have the 53132A and the 53181A so I can test (with the RS SML01). Is this problem new? Never tested before? About the OCXO aging: OK, I'm interested in the development of a model that can be general enough so that it can be steered, adjusting its parameters, during the OCXO life. The data (to adjust the parameters) will be gathered by the continuous monitoring with the GPS. On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Bernd Neubig bneu...@t-online.de wrote: Hi Azelio, Sorry, the counters are 53131A, not 53151A. The A and B inputs are specified from DC to 225 MHz with a sensitivity of y20 mV (rms) up to 100 MHz, 30 mV (rms) 100 ~ 200 MHz, and 50 mV (rms) 200 ~ 225 MHz. The problem can be at either input alone. The problem is only in the range between 100 MHz and 200 MHz, observed in automatic trigger mode. In manual trigger mode the counter does not trigger at all in that freq range. I cannot tell you an aging model for a particular OCXO, and I doubt if anyone can ;) Aging predictions can only be made on individual OCXO, unit by unit, and the prediction is only valid over a rather limited time. Therefore you must continuously monitor and update your prediction. Best regards Bernd DK1AG -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Azelio Boriani Gesendet: Freitag, 24. August 2012 17:28 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53151A trigger problems From the datasheet: A input 10Hz..125MHz min level 25mVrms (-19dBm) B input min 50MHz, -20dBm the problem is on A input only? Maybe 150MHz for the A input, being beyond the official specifications, requires more signal on one counter than the other. In the past they all were fine? I have read your paper on the correlation between the real and predicted aging of crystal oscillators. I'm trying to find a suitable model for the Morion MV201 OCXO or the Oscilloquartz 8663 to implement a Kalman filter. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Bernd Neubig bneu...@t-online.de wrote: Hi all, I have several HP/Agilent frequency counters 53151A (and 53152A) in my lab. Several of them meanwhile show trigger problems. I have tested the A and B channel between 5 MHz and 200 MHZ at three input levels of -10 dBm, 0 dBm and +10 dBm. Those with trigger problems show erroneous numbers at -10 dBm input level rather selectively, i.e. mostly at 100 MHz, some also at 150 MHz, while the are o.k. Has anyone on this list experienced similar defects and can give a recommendation how to fix/repair them? Best regards Bernd DK1AG www.axtal.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go
Re: [time-nuts] newbie question Thunderbolt supply
there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need usb time interval time for portable bullet chrongraph
Hi Paul: I'm presently adapting a chrony chronograph because I want to use the triggers for timing and other purposes. They've spent a LOT of engineering time to get proper triggering, and the triggers can easily be pulled off without disturbing the basic unit. The triggers are robust and will drive a piece of coax with a nice pulse at a 5 v level. The cheapest chrony is under $100 and using their triggers will save you HOURS and HOURS of fiddling around, trust me! You can use something like an arduino which has two interrupt inputs to do the time measurement, or as Tom suggests. Don Paul Cianciolo Hello Folks I have been looking at bullet chrographs and wondering if I could get the a usb module to do a interval measurement and display on my laptop. on a yet to be discovered module to calculate the time interval between the pulses? The bullet travels at approx 1050 feet per second. By spacing my gates providing the start stop pulses precisely 1 foot apart I think a direct read out except for the decibal point being in the wrong place . Does this seem fesable? Here is one module I found http://www.weedtech.com/index_eventcount.html Any thoughts on this? The reason for the USB would be for display on my laptop at the firing range Thank you for any help I would really appreciate it PaulC W1VLF ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Modern motherboard with RS232 port
Phase angle/power factor Don Tom Knox Hi Ed; I may not have had enough coffee yet, but if Volt X Amps = Watts why would there be a difference? Best Wishes; Thomas Knox Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:35:51 -0600 From: ed_pal...@sasktel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Modern motherboard with RS232 port It's important to remember that on a computer, the wattage shown has no relationship to the wattage pulled from the socket. The numbers shown are maximum values. You have to measure the power draw and you have to measure it in volt-amps, not watts because that's how residential power is measured (at least in North America). Buy an energy meter that shows volt-amps. They're relatively cheap - typically less than $50. Ed On 8/19/2012 11:06 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: This sounds like a newer version of the board I use. The thing to check is if the CPU heat sink has a fan or not. Having no fan indicates that the CPU is not using much power. It also removes a common failure point. To reduce power even more. On an NTP server you can unplug the keyboard, mouse and monitor and if you have other servers on the LAN configure one as a boot server and have it run TFTP then your NTP server does not need a disk drive. It can run off a RAM disk. This makes it very fast, even faster than a SSD and it saves some cash. Makes backup easy too as there is nothing to backup if there is no local storage. If you don't have a TFTP server use a small notebook size disk drive. Even a 80GB drive is overkill. You can also boot from a USB thumb drive and run a RAM disk. It is worth it to look at your electric bill to find how much you pay for power. Here I'm at $0.21 per KWH. A full size PC server can use 250W or more. There are 8760 hours in a year so you get $460 per year to run that 250W PC. The little Atom will pay for itself in just a few months. The first time I did that calculation, my power hogs where given away. On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Stan, W1LE stanw...@verizon.net wrote: Hello The Net, For your consideration: The INTEL model DN2800mt ITX mother board uses a ATOM CPU and draws about 11 watts of AC power when configured as: (I have not measured DC power yet.) 30 GB OCZ Nocti mSATA solid state drive, WIN7 pro, 64 bit, USB keyboard and mouse APEX MI-0008 case. Also has: parallel port available on mother board, you extend to a connector RS232 serial port available on mother board, you extend to a connector a single DC power supply from 11 to 19 V DC. 1 each PCIe expansion port, I will use with a premium 4 channel sound card SATA ports available for HDD/SDD, USB ports are available, Motherboard sound, and Gigalan. I have not played with NTP, (yet), but it sounds like a decent time nut technical challenge. My application is for a remote site with only 13V DC power available from PV/batteries. Then use fiber ethernet to get off site. The INTEL website would have further details. Stan, W1LECape Cod FN41sr z ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Motorola UT+ Interface Board
Even easier is a 5v rs232 to USB board. Don paul swed I have done the exact same thing. Pretty quick work and the maxim chips make it pretty easy Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 6:47 AM, dropkic...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have a source for UT+ interface boards? Like the McKinney boards from TAPR (that are no longer available). I hand wired one using a 4x6 inch prototype board. It is not very complex. The best why to do the TTL to RS-232 conversion is with this little device you can find on eBay that is a MAX232 chip built into a DB9 shell Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
Are we sure it wasn't the April issue? Isn't this just phase modulation? Azelio Boriani To exploit an angular momentum modulation we need a demodulator able to recognize that angular momentum... nowadays our demodulators cannot go beyond amplitude, phase and their combination. Maybe I'm missing something... On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Michael Baker mp...@clanbaker.org wrote: Timenutters-- Along the lines of splitting time into small increments, there is an interesting article in the May 2012 issue of the IEEE Spectrum Journal. It describes experiments with what I am calling cork-screw time-shift phasing modulation or orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing for lack of a better description of the process. This is not the same as circular-polarization of a radiated signal. Visualize a 4-ft dia parabolic reflector which has been cut (sliced) in a straight line from any arbitrary point on its outer edge to its center.Then, at the outer lip of the reflector surface, pull one side of the cut about a foot forward of the other side of the cut. The separation is greatest at the edge of the dish, gradually becoming less and less as the cut approaches the center of the dish. The concept is that RF energy from the feed progressively strikes different areas of the dish slightly ahead (time-wise) from RF energy that strikes other parts of the dish. Because the surface of the dish resembles a cork-screw the signal from the dish has elements that are time-delayed with respect to other parts. Accordingly, data elements can be incorporated into the signal which have sightly different time-delay angular momentum properties. Again, the folks working on this insist that this is not the same as circular polarity of the radiated signal such as is obtained with a helix antenna. At the receive end, the process is reversed, producing a signal which when demodulated can contain extra levels of data modulation superimposed on it. The article points out that there are skeptics of the process who say that this same modulation procedure can be done with other methods although the modulation and demodulation process would be much more complex. The orbital angular momentum of photons in the optical realm has been extensively studied, although applying these principles to RF is something new. Mike Baker -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival
No you use a great number of tiny overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network, not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature. Think about rats and cockroaches Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called, or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs... Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival
could be it... Don jmfranke Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many of the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland LORAN system run primarily for the railroads. John WA4WDL -- From: Don Latham d...@montana.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival No you use a great number of tiny overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network, not a top-down control system. What this does is mimic nature. Think about rats and cockroaches Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called, or present status. These things are kinda lost these days, like the original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs... Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting
You can get one of these at any large truck stop :-) Don Peter Gottlieb Now I suppose one could put it into a highly insulated container with a bidirectional Peltier temperature controller (I have some larger examples of those), but really was wondering if there was an easier way than that. On 07/13/12, Azelio Borianiazelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: Peltier cooler on top of the OCXO or on top of the TBolt? On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [1]c...@omen.comwrote: How about a thermostatically controlled Peltier cooler? -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [2]c...@omen.com [3]www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- [4]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts[6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/list info/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [7]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [8]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:c...@omen.com 2. mailto:c...@omen.com 3. http://www.omen.com/ 4. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 5. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** 6. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 7. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 8. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather
Hi: Been following the latest Thunderbolt thread a littlt more closely than previous ones. Mention was made of Lady Heather driving a fan with PID. I looked at the LH website and what I have for tbolts. Where is the fan control physically hooked? An internal mod? I admit I may have allowed this info to pass by in the past... Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather
Thanks, Warren, for the refresh. So the L.H. fan control signal is bang-bang, and not really a PID, as it's on the DTR data line. Don ws at Yahoo Don no internal connection needed. Lots of ways to do it, an isolated optical isolator connect to a couple of pins on the RS232 connector is one way. The LH controller can also be used to just Heat for those that don't like moving parts, or dual with heat and cool as well as just drive a fan. If ypu want you could go full nuts and connect it up to control the room AC/Heater For the LH driver I use and how I use it see: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20110116/76cc81b5/attachment-0001.jpg text at: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-January/053648.html ws *** [time-nuts] Lady Heather Don Latham djl at montana.com Hi: Been following the latest Thunderbolt thread a littlt more closely than previous ones. Mention was made of Lady Heather driving a fan with PID. I looked at the LH website and what I have for tbolts. Where is the fan control physically hooked? An internal mod? I admit I may have allowed this info to pass by in the past... Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather
So the other signal is on pin 7, RTS? Don ws at Yahoo Don No, it is not bang-bang. Look at the plot results. You don't get .001 deg type resolution and control with a bang-bang controller. It is a full Linear, universal, PID + with self tuning capability. The output is a high resolution Linear PWM driving one of the RS232 pins and a polarity/enable output on one of the other pins which can be used for heating / cooling / enable / fail_ save, etc. ( I don't use the second output with the KISS simple fan driver, because that hardware is already fail-safe). The PID can be manually set for all kinds of things, Including Band-Bang control. ws Thanks, Warren, for the refresh. So the L.H. fan control signal is bang-bang, and not really a PID, as it's on the DTR data line. Don ws at Yahoo Don no internal connection needed. Lots of ways to do it, an isolated optical isolator connect to a couple of pins on the RS232 connector is one way. The LH controller can also be used to just Heat for those that don't like moving parts, or dual with heat and cool as well as just drive a fan. If ypu want you could go full nuts and connect it up to control the room AC/Heater For the LH driver I use and how I use it see: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20110116/76cc81b5/attachment-0001.jpg text at: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-January/053648.html ws *** ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting
Don't bother with the concrete, just put the dirt back. You can even just bury a vault with a lid under about 2 ft of dirt, will work just fine. Don Chris Albertson I've got a foundation trench open right now. I've been thinking it is a great opportunity to keep some electronics at a very stable temperature. What's better then tossing it in a big hole in the ground then dumping a truckload of concrete on top? Likely the only thing I'll burry is a $2 temperature sensor. In So. California you don't need to go very deep to reach stable temp. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com wrote: You have to go deep into the ground to get stability. At 15 metres deep there is a lovely pure sine wave of about 0.3C P-P. I measured it on the roof of a cave, its period one year. My design for the bolt is to put it in a 1/4 inch thick aluminium box which is held at a constant temperature by a fan. Switching control is good enough as the thermal diffusivity of 1/4 inch aluminium will attenuate any spectral components shorter than a minute. The aluminium box is so conductive that the box is isothermal, so once the bolt has established its internal temperature gradients, nothing changes. cheers, Neville Michie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather
Got it, thanks, Warren. Don't know how long 'till I get to installation,
but wanted to be prepared.
Don
ws at Yahoo
Yes, RTS is the other pin.
From 'Heather.txt' {Helper} file
Added ability to actively stabilize the device temperature.
(/TT=degrees or TT command line option).
Uses the serial port RTS and DTR lines.
RTS is the temperature controller enable (+12=off, -12=on)
DTR is the heat (-12V) / cool (+12V) line.
ws
**
So the other signal is on pin 7, RTS?
Don
*
ws at Yahoo
Don
No, it is not bang-bang. Look at the plot results.
You don't get .001 deg type resolution and control with a bang-bang
controller.
It is a full Linear, universal, PID + with self tuning capability.
The output is a high resolution Linear PWM driving one of the RS232
pins
and a polarity/enable
output on one of the other pins which can be used for heating /
cooling
/ enable / fail_ save, etc.
( I don't use the second output with the KISS simple fan driver,
because
that hardware is already fail-safe).
The PID can be manually set for all kinds of things, Including
Band-Bang
control.
ws
Thanks, Warren, for the refresh. So the L.H. fan control signal is
bang-bang, and not really a PID, as it's on the DTR data line.
Don
ws at Yahoo
Don
no internal connection needed.
Lots of ways to do it,
an isolated optical isolator connect to a couple of pins on the RS232
connector is one way.
The LH controller can also be used to just Heat for those that don't
like moving parts, or dual with heat and cool as well as just drive a
fan.
If ypu want you could go full nuts and connect it up to control the
room AC/Heater
For the LH driver I use and how I use it see:
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20110116/76cc81b5/attachment-0001.jpg
text at:
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-January/053648.html
ws
***
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind.
R. Bacon
If you don't know what it is, don't poke it.
Ghost in the Shell
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Fan mounting
fan designed for variable speed plus finned heatsink plus temp sensor (sometimes) in a neat package from any old computer cpu cooler... Don WarrenS Mark Although Lady Heather's temperature controller can hold the temp at the TBolt's sensor constant to delta 0.000x deg over 72 hrs, this does not hold the temperature at the oscillator close enough to maintain an exact constant frequency because the TBolt's sensor location is not at the OCXO. The change of the Oscillator's open loop freq vs. room temp can be seen when the room temp is also plotted and compared to the DAC voltage in an extended length LH plot. What Lady Heater does is plenty good enough for most, but if you want to be even more nuts (and who wouldn't), there are still further improvements possible that can eliminate all of the TBolt's OCXO sensitivity to small room temperature changes. 1) One way to improve LH's temp control, which is not very practical and not recommended, is to reposition the TB's temp sensor. :( 2) There are several ways that Lady Heather could be modified, to change the control loop set point a little as a function of room temp. 3) The simple mechanical way that I use to minimize any remaining variation due to room temperature changes when using LH's temperature control loop is to adjust the position the LH controlled fan to compensate for the difference between the TB's sensor and it's oscillator. Shown in the attachment, I placed the stock Tbolt in a tight fitting foam lined small box where only the top case of the TBolt's is exposed. This minimizes temperature gradients on the case and causes the TB's temperature to rise a safe amount. I use a small 12v, 1W fan loosely mounted to the top to a 1/4 inch sheet of aluminum plate that sits on top of the TBolt. For course adjustment, I change the position of the aluminum plate on the TB. For fine adjustment, I change the location of the fan a little so that it is blowing air at a different spot on the plate. Not shown in the attachment, is a small insulator / deflector that only allows fan air to blow on the aluminum plate, not on the TBolt's exposed upper case. This insulator and the foam forces most all of TBolt cooling to go thru the 1/4 inch aluminum heat sink plate. I can then adjust the fan position so that there is no visible effect on the TBolt's OCXO due to small daily room temperature changes. The power supply I'm using is stable enough that I have not seen any TBolt changes when the PS is heated with a hair dryer or the line voltage is changed by large amounts with a variac. ws ** Mark posted: I tried putting a Tbolt in a small (six-pack sized) Coleman cooler. The temperature rose above the alarm temperature... it does not take much insulation to cause problems. Lady Heather's built in temperature PID controller works very well. When properly set it up, short term variations can be well under 20 millidegrees. Long term RMS temperature error can be a few microdegrees or less. Attached is a screen dump showing a 0 microdegree RMS temp error over 72 hours! Besides the TT command to set the desired setpoint temperature, there are some built in PID parameter commands (KW sets a slow pid,KM sets a fast pid, KA attempts a PID autotune... you can also tweak the various PID parameters individually... see the routine edit_pid_value() in heathui.cpp for some idea of the available parameters). For best performance, it helps to have the power supply in the temperature controlled box. This will minimize the effects of temperature variation on the supply, which can be a third of the overall system temperature sensitivity. It is also a good idea to not have the box so well sealed that the unit overheats if the computer/PID/fan shuts down. You probably don't want a flammable box in case your cheapo Chinese power supply bursts into flame. For best operation of a new Tbolt, you should first run the 48 hour precision survey, then execute the a auto-tune command. Autotune sets the oscillator parameters, elevation mask, and signal level mask to time-nutty values. Before running a, first set the elevation mask to a low value and collect data for a couple of hours. This lets the program find the satellite elevation angle where the signal starts to degrade. Note that it can take several weeks for an old, unused oscillator to fully stabilize and age in. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road
Re: [time-nuts] disciplining sound card
Foe word rate generation from 10 MHz, perhaps the TAPR devices: http://www.tapr.org/kits_clock-block.html or: http://www.tapr.org/kits_tadd-2.html with a type D f/f to get a square wave? generate your clock for cheap. Don Chris Albertson There is a profesional standard for clock distribution for computer audio interfaces. They call it a Word Clock and it is usually distributed over 75 ohm coax cable. It is common for a studio to have a master word clock generator and to use audio interfaces that accept an external clock. Some of these master clocks have rubidium or OCXO inside. Most can also PLL to any external clock The trouble is that lower priced audio interfaces lack a word clock input and you'd need to get into something like this as a minimum to have that feature 828mk3Hy http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828mk3Hy/ So if you are going to hack a cheap consumer interface it might be a better hack to install a word clock input. At some point inside the interface there MUST be a sample rate clock running at 44.1, 48, 96, 192 kilohertz. Find then cut that trace and bring it out to a 75 ohm BNC connector. Now you have a standard pro level feature. Now when you divide down your 10Mhz lab standard divide it to word rate and you only need to build the divider once and you can use it with any audio interface that has word clock I/O. Yes of course you can send 14.4356MHz or whatever but that is a one time design and it will be different with every audio interface depending on whatever TTL can oscillator the engineer used. All that said. I have a cheap Presonus firewire audio interface that has S/PDIF input and it has the option to accept word clock over the fiber s/pdif. Many low priced interfaces can do this. Then you happen to have a quality s/pdif device around you are set. On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: What if I post a schematic with a Lattice M4-64/32 CPLD? If you can program this CPLD I can send the .JED file, the schematic... - I could probably get that done... would have to get a board made... never done it but could probably manage...some kind of usb blaster to program it. I presume the .jed is the code? I can solder for sure. Would I be able to look at the code so I can learn something? -- Doc Bill Dailey KXØO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Repairing a PTS 160
NIX means no output? Kinda like a monode? Don Brooke Clarke Hi: I got a PTS 160 S2N1X for a very good price because it has no output. http://www.prc68.com/I/PTS160.html Are there any documents that have theory of operation, schematics or other info that would be helpful in a repair? PS. What does the X mean in the part number PTS 160 S2N1X? -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TimeLab with 5370A
Downloaded the latest timelab, 1.014 to use with my 5370a and prologix net adapter. Was working with previous version. Prologix is seen in the list, and if I pick it in acquire, I can get readings in the monitor. when I go to measure, the notes say lost connection, and the prologix has vanished from the available sources. Have to shut down the 5370 and reload timelab to see the prologix again. Anyone having similar troubles? This is such a great setup that I'd hate to lose it... Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] timelab
Got it going---doesn't take adev data in frequency mode but time interval working fine. Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] timelab
Thanks, John. When I did the 1sec pulse start vs next 10 MHz crossing trick, I got very reliable behavior. When I tried the start on 10 MHz stop on 100 ft RG58 delay, I got communication loss. You've given the symptom and cause exactly. I can set the data rate in the sample text box in the acquire window until I get bad behavior, and I see that using the auto set feature can get unstable. Would it be better to use the sample rate on the 5370 to control? Thanks VERY much for giving us use of your program! Don John Miles Hi, Don -- You can view all of the measurement types (ADEV, MDEV, HDEV, TDEV, phase difference, frequency difference) regardless of whether you are acquiring TI or frequency data from the 5370. The performance floor will be somewhat better in TI mode, and long-term frequency chart readings will be more accurate, but that's it. It can be tricky to get reliable operation out of the GPIB-Ethernet adapter unless you use a relatively low data rate from the 5370. If data comes in too fast, the adapter can lock up until the next power cycle. And/or it will be necessary to power-cycle the counter, as you noticed. -- john, KE5FX www.miles.io -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Latham Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 4:32 PM To: time nuts Subject: Re: [time-nuts] timelab Got it going---doesn't take adev data in frequency mode but time interval working fine. Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] timelab
You're welcome, good to hear it's helpful! Yes, the front-panel display rate control is what I use to limit the data rate on my 5370 -- see the last part of my longer post from yesterday. The sample rate field in the dialog box is only used to tell TimeLab what the actual data rate is. The program doesn't alter the counter's controls at all. good. That will be very easy to do. Are there any tricks to use in your prologix setup program? Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] timelab
Gotcha, Thanks. Happy 4th. My neighbors making many bangs. we have real fireworks from the Res here in Montana... Don John Miles The sample rate field in the dialog box is only used to tell TimeLab what the actual data rate is. The program doesn't alter the counter's controls at all. good. That will be very easy to do. Are there any tricks to use in your prologix setup program? Meaning the one from the older GPIB Toolkit? No, that isn't used by TimeLab at all. It can still be useful if you want to reset the adapter to its factory settings, but a more complete job of that can be done by re-flashing the firmware from www.prologix.biz, if you find yourself needing to do that. -- john, KE5FX www.miles.io ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] timelab
So if the 5370 determines the data rate, then in calculating adev or other such products, we're assuming the time differences are ergodic because we're not getting them sequentially, but rather selecting the delay intervals at long inetrvals between them? John Miles The sample rate field in the dialog box is only used to tell TimeLab what the actual data rate is. The program doesn't alter the counter's controls at all. good. That will be very easy to do. Are there any tricks to use in your prologix setup program? Meaning the one from the older GPIB Toolkit? No, that isn't used by TimeLab at all. It can still be useful if you want to reset the adapter to its factory settings, but a more complete job of that can be done by re-flashing the firmware from www.prologix.biz, if you find yourself needing to do that. -- john, KE5FX www.miles.io ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
You need the gate volt-drain current curves to match the nuvistor grid-plate characteristic and the fet breakdown voltage has of course got to be high enough. I've gotten nuvistors at pretty reasonable cost on ebay... Don Ron Ward Hi: I have been thinking of doing the same thing! I have some 2N301 dual gate MOSFET's that I want to use. I would rather consider successful conversions done by others rather than reinvent the wheel. Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Merchison Burke Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 8:19 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a Hello, Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117 and the 10509a with FETs. I would like to replace them with inexpensive FETs instead of buying the expensive Nunistors. Thanks for all help, Merchison ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Edgardo: For the asking price, you can do a LOT better than this Hp. There will be more opinions from more knowledgeable time-nuts regarding your choices, I would consider them carefully. Again, you do not need to spend anything like $1k US to get what you need. Don Edgardo Molina Dear Group, Good morning. I wish you well. This is my first post to the Time-Nuts group. Please be gentle with the newbie ;) I have been offered an HP 5065a Rubidium Frequency Standard recently in what I feel, a bad operational condition. I need a reliable rubidium standard for my time/frequency experiments, still I am in doubt to invest in buying such and old beast. The general situation of the instrument (for what I have been able to see from the first inspection) is: 100 Khz output: Not working, noise coming out of it. 1Mhz output: Working, sine wave clean and not distorted, a couple of frequency meters showing 1.030 Mhz in frequency, the oscilloscope shows a transient pulse on top of the sine wave signal and affecting the frequency readout instantly and then returning to the value previously mentioned. Last digits vary sporadically. 5Mhz output: Working. sine wave clean but a little bit distorted when ramping up. A couple of frequency counters showing 5.014 Mhz in frequency. No transient pulses or other glitches around the output signal. Last digits vary sporadically. No lights coming up when the instrument turned on. No physical damage of abuse on case or internal components. No options installed . A couple of electrolytic caps replaced on some boards, no trace of burnt PCB traces or visible damage to electronic components or physics package. Haven't got the manual until today and was unable to check on the front panel voltages to check on general health. As turning the voltage test selector knob, voltage is shown for most positions, except of course battery and the 100 Khz oscillator output. Some voltage test positions get the instrument needle to go full scale and out of range, other appear to be within scale. I can perform a second visual and operational inspection today, this time with a copy of the instrument manual. I will take my own trusted frequency counter and portable digital storage oscilloscope. Would really appreciate if I could receive comments from you experts to evaluate if such a unit could be worth buying. The asking price is $1K USD. Should I consider it an instrument that can be repaired and serviced to show some decent performance? Or should I look somewhere else to get a decent rubidium frequency standard. Thank you beforehand for all your kind and expert comments. Respectfully, Edgardo Molina Mexico City, Mexico ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Injection locking interconnect
Don't run it over your toes! snip There's an interesting paper out there using a bunch (half dozen?) magnetrons as a microwave weed killer, where they all locked to each other, so the power was appropriately combined with minimal loss. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Widdershins
It's also connected to handedness. widdershins means to go leftwise, deasil righthanded or rightwise. lefthandedness bad, righthandedness good. Threads righthanded usually, bunches of other stuff. Don Bill Hawkins Around 1530, it was considered very bad luck to walk around a church widdershins (see the Wikipedia article). I think it goes back earlier than that, to a time well before clocks. If widdershins means counter-clockwise, how did they know which way clocks ran? The answer lies in northern hemisphere sundials. When clocks with faces were invented, they ran in the same direction as the shadow of the gnomon on a sundial. Widdershins also means anti-sunwise, which would be blasphemous to people that used to believe that the sun was a powerful god. There's lots of angles to this time stuff. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Widdershins
Also, most useful isomers are rh, eg dextrose and levulose. also, if you are facile with your hands, you're dexterous. c c... The universe is right handed... Don Bob Camp Hi Since most of this is Euro-centric: Hops (and possibly other plants) cycle in a clockwise direction as they grow in the northern hemisphere. They grow fast enough early in the season that completing one (or more) revolutions per day is pretty normal. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bill Hawkins Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:06 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: [time-nuts] Widdershins Around 1530, it was considered very bad luck to walk around a church widdershins (see the Wikipedia article). I think it goes back earlier than that, to a time well before clocks. If widdershins means counter-clockwise, how did they know which way clocks ran? The answer lies in northern hemisphere sundials. When clocks with faces were invented, they ran in the same direction as the shadow of the gnomon on a sundial. Widdershins also means anti-sunwise, which would be blasphemous to people that used to believe that the sun was a powerful god. There's lots of angles to this time stuff. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vectron Type 229 Crystal Oscillator
Thanks, Clint! Your essay rests in my database... Don C. Turner FWIW, I've re-crystalled a number of those 100 MHz-area '229 and similar Vectron oscillators and have had pretty good results and I thought that I'd make a comment or two. clip -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] vectron 229's
I knew something nagged: blowing off dust, I found two of these, non-adjustable. One is at 101.136364 MHz, and the other at 107.864583 MHz. They're 24 volt, pin 2 (cw bottom view) and case pin 6. Other pins open. The interesting thing is that I had bought some really inexpensive AD9850 boards on epay (eg 140776695890, $5.95, free shipping, buy 5 or 6 before the dollar dumps). Looking up the 9850, I found a really nice frequency calculator utility, http://designtools.analog.com/dt/dds/ad9850. and found out either of these oscillators can replace the 125 MHz little osc on the board and give me very useful generators for little cost. I don't have to even mess with the Vectrons to get one part in 10*7 handily with either oscillator, using my fave Robot Basic and a little picaxe or arduino or whatever is around. Can be nicely used for example as the reference osc in a DB mixer setup, etc.Spurs, harmonics, of course, but really handy and the price is right. There are always the little lines going off the drawing to power supply, but... There are also 9851 blocks, a little more expensive, to give better square wave out, on ebay as well. The fun never ends... Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vectron Type 229 Crystal Oscillator
Kovar is a glass seal, much like a tube base :-), so that's sorted. The voltage is as you point out another problem. The presence of the Kovar seal suggests that the unit is nicely sealed up, not to be opened. Do you know what the waveform or power level should be on the output? Don gandal...@aol.com I've recently bought a Vectron 229-9268 100MHz crystal oscillator via Ebay with no information other than it was supposed to have been removed from an item of Racal radio equipment several years ago. It has an SMA RF connector and a 7 pin circular power connector, much in the style of a B7G valve base, with several leads attached to that which terminate at what appears to be a miniature version of a 9 pin D connector. A search through the list archives, and online generally, has thrown up two different connection options offered in response to previous requests for information on 229- series oscillators, the first listed as being for a CO-229 is as follows... Pin 1 No connection (NC) Pin2 Case(0V) Pin3 Case(0V) Pin4 B+ 24VDC Pin5 VCXO Supply For option V models only Pin6 VCXO Input For option V models only Pin7 VCXO Return/case For option V models only The second is shown as being for a VECTRON 229 osc with 7 pin Kovar feed through in circle similar to a tube base... 1 B+ (Oven) 2 N/C 3 N/C 4 B+ (Osc) 5 VCXO Supply 6 VCXO Input 7 return (Case) Mine looks to be a very close match to the second option, pins 2 and 3 aren't used, 7 is definitely ground, and there are small decoupling caps from pins 1 and 6 to pin 7, although no decoupling on 4 and 5. I've seen suggestions for the single power feed versions that the supply options were either 12, 15, or 24 volts but have found nothing to indicate whether or not the dual power feed versions would always use identical supply voltages, or if they might also have been available requiring different voltages for oven and oscillator. I'm happy enough to play suck it and see with the oven voltage, and judge that by current and case temperature, but would prefer not to fry the oscillator as part of that process, bit self defeating really:-), so any information would be very much appreciated. regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vectron TRU-50
I chased the TRU-50 down with Vectron. It's not a stock part, horribly expensive, special order, and has been obsoleted (ain't American English grand?). They would let me buy 10 of some that were on the shelf for the 100 price of $59.00 each. A Schmartboard, TI (formerly National) PLL, and a common vcxo is probably a much better way to go for diddling around. Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port server .. any interest in a write up on using ?
I'm also interested. Maybe a group buy? Don Jerry Mulchin Ditto for me.. Jerry At 08:16 PM 5/21/2012, you wrote: I would be interested in some more information. I've got quite a few RS232 devices as well and not nearly enough ports even if I used all my computers. Alan On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.comwrote: Like many time-nuts I have quite a few devices that communicate to the outside world with a serial port. And like many I have more then one. In a past life I use to have to connect to sometimes a 100 RS232 in one location. A popular device is called a terminal server or concentrator. They would take from 1 to 48 RS232 ports on one side and let you talk to them via an Ethernet interface. I so far have twelve RS232 ports in use. ... So if this is of interest to anyone I'll go into more detail, models, setup etc. -pete -pete ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Why are 1PPS signals so skinny?
Came to this thread late. Could it be thin because the end output of even a synchronous dividing chain needs to be resynced to the beginning to maintain phase? Don shali...@gmail.com The Thunderbolt's output impedance is much less than 10 ohms. However, it is only necessary to filter the end of the line for a clean pulse. See http://www.ko4bb.com/Test_Equipment/CoaxCableMatching.php I used the Thunderbolt's PPS output as a source in those measurements. Didier KO4BB Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 19:02:51 To: Tom Van Baakt...@leapsecond.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why are 1PPS signals so skinny? These types of pulses should be routed as open-ended source-terminated reflected wave switched transmission lines. Power will only flow for nanoseconds as the pulse travels over the line. There won't be a drop of 50% of the voltage at the target and no large power spikes in the unit or requirements for proper impedance matching at the receiver side. Some units like the thunderbolt look quite bad driving a 50 ohms transmission line, others that are designed with proper 50 ohms series impedance create a sharp nice signal. Bye, Said Sent from my iPad On May 14, 2012, at 17:21, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: Mark, I too once preferred 50% duty cycle 1 Hz signals because they seemed more natural. But one day during an experiment where I was comparing a large set of clocks I noticed my lab's digital AC power meter was jumping by tens of watts every second. When a dozen DUT generate 1PPS along with as many REF pulses (via cascaded pulse distribution amps) and then these all go to both inputs of a TIC and there's also LED's on both TIC channels as well as the dist amps, the net load is enormous. The last thing you want in a precision timing lab is to load your AC line down exactly once a second. Remember 5V into 50R is 0.1 Amps. That was a modest amount of current in the 1950's, but massive overkill today. So that's why I now prefer short (e.g., 1 ms or 10 us) pulses. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
Isn't long term stability an oxymoron? Or, put another way, a Murphy Mantra? Don MailLists Let's expect the ultimate portable MP3 player with atomic clock reference... :] Also funny are the offerings with RbO CD-clocks... usually tweaked FE-5680s, which are not exactly famous for a clean jitter/spurious free output signal... The only reason is the easiness of output frequency adjustment (for the DDS models) to that of the standard CD clock, which promptly places a premium on the price tag. A good XO is way better and cheaper, with the notable exception of temperature, and long term stability - still waiting for the golden ears capable of hearing that one... On 5/7/2012 12:20 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2012 13:40:15 +0530 Rajvu2...@gmail.com wrote: I once did a test with a audio expert and compared a CD and a digital copy. He confirmed that the copy was the original and when I showed him which was which he still refused to believe.. I know a local guy who gold plated the PCBs for his home brewed amp! Well.. there is lots of bogus information going around in the audiophile scene... Probably mostly because todays audio technology is so advanced, that Clarke's 3rd Law applies... But to bring this back to time nutty topics, have a look at http://www.colorfly.eu/product.html It's an MP3 player with high precision timing. It does not only use two TCXOs with5ps Jitter.. No! It also employes a technique known as Jitter Kill for the ultimate mobile sound experience! :-) Attila Kinali ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
One of my other avocations is precision shooting. I would not like to engage in a contest to see which bunch of aficionados has more folklore Don Javier Herrero El 07/05/2012 11:20, Attila Kinali escribió: But to bring this back to time nutty topics, have a look at http://www.colorfly.eu/product.html It's an MP3 player with high precision timing. It does not only use two TCXOs with 5ps Jitter.. No! It also employes a technique known as Jitter Kill for the ultimate mobile sound experience! :-) Attila Kinali It plays MP3 or uncompressed audio? ;). And the sliding potentiotemer... prone to all kinds of noises and imbalance, and the nice wood enclosure, hand engraved, of course manufactured in a controlled temperature and humidity environment, that no doubt has a very positive effect on the sound, probably as good as the EMC shielding that provides. Also I love this paragraph On month day of year, the technique of circuit named Jitter Kill was registered as a patent for the other special technique of the Pocket HIFI player. When was/will be month day of year? excellent accuracy :) I imagine Steve Wan and his team laughing out loud everytime their get a purchase order. Regards, Javier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
At this URL I get something called Samwell what what in the butt, not a clock. Maybe I did not watch long enough? Don Rob Kimberley I personally like the simplicity of this one. Material cost quite low, but takes a good team effort. http://iprl.wz.cz/ Rob Kimberley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble recommends RG-59 Antenna Cable.
My TrueTime gps rcvr uses rg-59 as well. Don Robert Atkinson Hi Ken, This is correct. Some other documents explain the rationale. Basically for long runs the loss caused by the mismatch is less than the higher loss per foot of 50R coax of a similar size. Even better than RG59 is the high performance cable used for cable TV and satellite installations. This is cheap and low loss at 1.5GHz. This also also explains the F connector on the Thunderbolt. It would also be intersting to measure the actual impedance of some GPS receivers and antennas. Robert G8RPI. From: Ken Kubick kenkub...@hotmail.com To: Time Nuts time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, 30 April 2012, 6:58 Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble recommends RG-59 Antenna Cable. Hi Time-Nuts guys, I was reading the Trimble Thunderbolt manual section 2.1.3 (Antenna Cable). Trimble recommends using RG-59 cable which is 75 ohm coax. Is this a typo or is this correct? I thought that the Trimble Thunderbolt would use a 50 ohm cable and antenna. Thankyou Ken Kubick kenkub...@hotmail.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: Ocean Optics HR 2000's for sale
These are so neat I bought two of them. Do you Really wanna see what your Rb is doing :-)? Don J. Forster Hi, I received the email below and am passing it on for those who might be intertested. Please contact Roland directly, off-list, with any questions, etc. Best, -John = Used Ocean Optics HR2000 Spectrometer, H9 grating (~200 nm bandwidth,) calibrated for ~470 to 670 nm, 10 micron entrance slit. Purchase includes 12 200 micron fiber. One CDROM with Manual and useful Utilities included per purchase. Current pricing for shipment within the continental US, good from April 1, 2012 till June 30, 2012. Hawaii, Canada, and International shipments are individually calculated. Qty Total USPS Priority Mail Shipment to continental US 1 $140 1 box (~2.2 lbs), $200 insurance 2 $260 1 box (~4.4 lbs), $300 insurance 3 $380 1 box (~6.6 lbs), $400 insurance 4 $500 1 box (~8.8 lbs), $500 insurance 5 $640 2 boxes (~11.0 lbs), $700 total insurance 6 $760 2 boxes (~13.2 lbs), $800 total insurance 7 $880 2 boxes (~15.4 lbs), $900 total insurance 8 $1,000 2 boxes (~17.6 lbs), $1,000 total insurance Payable as Cash, Money Order, Certified Check, or Personal Check (shipment after checks clears.) I will consider Paypal for International customers ONLY. There is an additional 5% surcharge for these purchase to cover the additional Paypal costs to me. Email: roland.guil...@yahoo.com for more information. I have a Word document with further information. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] General Technology Corp model 304b
A first-class engineered unit will have a single point where the chassis and circuit grounds tie together, Sometimes it's a panel, where the i/o connectors are coaxial. I've fixed units with good engineering and sloppy construction where accidental extra common points have caused problems. The bottom pin (pin B) is connected to circuit ground which is connected to chassis ground on my unit and the schematic confirms it. That could be why you have to ground that pin to make your unit work. There appears to be a broken or missing ground somewhere in your unit. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PICTIC II ready-made?...nanode
I tried to find a site to at least get the particulars for the Nanode. Sure it's not a Monode made of doped Nonobtanium? Alan Melia Mmmm not too impressive a web site thoughthe link to the buy page doesnt work backing up to the home the tabs in light grey on a white background are almost unreadabletoo must geewhizz and not the right HF input I suspectstill looks an interesting product. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Andrew Back and...@carrierdetect.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PICTIC II ready-made? On 25 April 2012 19:09, Randy D. Hunt randy_hunt...@yahoo.com wrote: Then there is also the matter of surface mount components. Some people my not physically be able to work with them, learning to solder or not. I am rapidly joining that group be cause of my vision. Since Arduino has been mentioned I feel obliged to provide a link for Nanode, an Arduino-compatible that integrates Ethernet and low power wireless (e.g. 868MHz) for around the same price of an Arduino. It's supplied as a kit of through-hole components... http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Project:Nanode Or a nice alternative might be a daughterboard for a Raspberry Pi, which would give you an ARM/Linux base for not much more money, and you could use it to create a standalone system that drives an old monitor for a display. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi Regards, Andrew -- Andrew Back http://carrierdetect.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PICTIC II ready-made?
Chris: I concur. Arduino base would allow simple extension to 'net control as well. Don Chris Albertson It might be time for a group project to design a Pictic III that uses parts that are readily available. Today I'd build it around an Arduino rather than a PIC even if the cost is more. Arduino is programmable by __anyone__ and plugs into a USB port, no onwwouldhave to supply programed chips and because it is so easy to program maybe some users would try to make improvements and offer them to others. Other suggestions to do something like this have come up on this list but then someone starts talking about using some specialized technology that 99.99% of the readers don't know (like FPGAs) I'd like to see it done with 25 cent parts and technology a beginner can master -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PICTIC II ready-made?
I forgot to add that a simple redrafting of the II as an Arduino shield with appropriate chips and chip passives would accomplish the desired end without losing the very careful engineering and testing that has already been done? Would be nice to have a way to change caps without soldering as well, maybe just some .1 jumpers? Don It might be time for a group project to design a Pictic III that uses parts that are readily available. Today I'd build it around an Arduino rather than a PIC even if the cost is more. Arduino is programmable by __anyone__ and plugs into a USB port, no onwwouldhave to supply programed chips and because it is so easy to program maybe some users would try to make improvements and offer them to others. Other suggestions to do something like this have come up on this list but then someone starts talking about using some specialized technology that 99.99% of the readers don't know (like FPGAs) I'd like to see it done with 25 cent parts and technology a beginner can master -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes
Timestamp is good, but ping-pong circular buffers let you look at precoursers to the trigger event if any, and loads one buffer at a time to mass storage with accompanying metadata, including the timestamp. Jim Lux On 4/17/12 7:55 AM, John Lofgren wrote: One feature of the Agilent and Rohde scopes (maybe Tek, too?) that can help in some situations is segmented memory. It allows you to capture periodic or random events with the full sample rate but to ignore all the dead time between events. For each trigger it stores one sweep with a time stamp. When you want to look at the record you can roll back through memory and look at each individual event with full resolution. This isn't a cure-all because the time stamps will have limited resolution and some amount of jitter, but it can be helpful in some applications. It also assumes that you know what you're looking for and can trigger on it :) Yes, this was a tek..it does the same thing (called fast frame in their manual) and the trigger time stamps were actually high resolution (higher than the sample rate). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Chinese Scopes (was: Re: LORAN-C at MIT)
I just can't help it. I like moving the mouse pointer over the slider and clicking or moving or just typing in a value. My latest scope (Bitscope)is from Australia, cost $250 inflated $ and all functions are done via PC. In addition, there is a dll if I want to roll my own app, and a suite of apps available on a website. The scope occupies as much or as little screen area as i like, the body is a huge 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/2 inches. I/O (yep, a built-in signal source) for the scope and an 8-channel digital analyzer is via .1 in spaced terminals. Needs some special connectors made for RF, but that is one of the only drawbacks. I've been a knob twiddler for over 50 years now, and USB or 'net test equipment is my current choice. That rant delivered, I admit that I simply do not need test lab or metrological acccuracy, for which one now has to go to RS or maybe Agilent, and pay the price for the additional decimal places. Don Hal Murray j...@quikus.com said: Going through layer after layer of ever more obtuse menus is just not 'user friendly' to me. Maybe it is to the designers, because they are used to a 10,000+ character alphabet? How much of that is because you want to use fancy features that didn't even exist on older scopes? Here is an example: The switch from small/fast to big/slow memory is buried deep in a menu. That's better than cluttering up the box with another button. My Rigol DS1102E has 6 knobs, 17 dedicated push buttons, and 5 menu buttons. One of the knobs is trigger level. 2 are horizontal scale and position. 2 are vertical scale and position. The 6th knob is for the current menu item. The vertical knobs are shared by both input channels. If you want to adjust the other channel you have to poke a button first. Sure, I'd prefer 2 more knobs. I can live with this. It's not obvious how to fit in 2 more knobs if you did decide that was important. Making the box an inch wider looks like the obvious way. Glancing at my old Tek 465, the thing that I think I would miss most is the AC/DC coupling switch on the input. I won't miss the Focus knob. :) Neither scope has an optional 50 ohm terminator on the inputs. --- I think there are 2 patterns for using a scope. One is chasing a glitch. The other is collecting data. When I'm chasing a glitch, I occasionally have to wander around in the menus. Yes, it's annoying. Part of the problem is that I sometimes don't remember how to get where I want to go so I make a few false starts. Overall, it's not a lot more time than it took me to setup the hardware. (I remember having to find a pair of coax cables with matched length.) It would be fun to hack the firmware to record all the button/knob actions. Once I have things setup, collecting more data is as simple as watching the screen or poking Enter on my PC. -- If you want to be critical, I see two weak areas. One is the documentation and/or firmware for remote control. It's good enough, at least if you are stubborn, but far from good. (I haven't tried their software: no Windows boxes here.) The other is the probes. Good probes are still expensive. The Rigol unit came with old big/clunky probes. Why would anybody want a 1x/10x switch on their probe? (I guess it might be interesting if you were working on small, slow signals, but I haven't done that in a long time.) For probes, there is a knee in the curve somewhere around 200 MHz. With a bit of care, you can get reasonable pictures up through 100 MHz. Beyond that, you have to really pay attention and good/small probes help. They also help with modern surface mount parts. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LORAN-C at MIT
Oh, I can't stand it...from my location in the sticks... really an MIT flea market?? real surplus/excess electronics Nuttin' like that in western Montana. 'course we do have wide open spaces :-) Don Rob Kimberley Silly thought, but do you know if the 2100F units sold or not. I'm interested at that price as Loran still good in UK (plus I used to sell these when I worked for Austron, and would be nice to actually own one). Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: 15 April 2012 19:41 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] LORAN-C at MIT At the MIT Flea today, I saw 4x Austron 2100Fs for about $25 each. There was also a LORAN-C simulator and a Stanford LORAN-C unit for $200. Seems the stuff is hitting the skids. -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LORAN-C at MIT
I know the HP paper was. Though I picked up 6 rolls. Regards Paul WB8TSL Paul and all: I have two boxes of 9270-1010 Hp paper (about 12 wide)with 25 rolls in each box, and another box mixed with Honeywell about the same size. I'd be happy to send some of it to time nuts for the cost of shipping. I modified my Heathkit chart recorder for the Hp paper, but might use a whole 2-3 rolls in the time left. Was just ready to recycle, so please let me know. Don Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LORAN-C at MIT
It is getting to the point where Rigol and Instek will make buying boat anchors a thing of the past. Actually, my last scope buy was a Bitscope USB appliance. It's nice! Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Xtendwave
Xtendwave is a fabless semiconductor company with technologies that improve capacity and range in wired and wireless networks . . . translated: We thought up something that works sort of on paper and we want somebody to do all the grunting to make it really work and just maybe it really will . . . Oh, and just send money Don Sam Reaves WWVB It seems that a commercial venture is driving this. Probably with all of the research at taxpayer expense. See: http://www.xtendwave.com/HD%20Time.pdf also www.extendwave.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FCC Chair Talks Spectrum, Gets GPS Letter
What a tangled web we weave. . . Don Charles P. Steinmetz Rob wrote: Javad got into bed with Lightsquared and now things are not working as planned he is throwing his toys out of the pram. Javad was hoping to profit from making (and/or perhaps licensing the technology to make) retrofit filters. Some would have been paid for by LS (presumably at wholesale), but the vast majority would have been sold at retail to GPS users. Call it piggyback speculation (Javad speculating on LS's speculation on the possibility of putting cheap Mobile Satellite Service (MSS) spectrum to a much higher-valued use and reaping a windfall). I love that LS is suggesting that if it is not allowed to go forward with its terrestrial network it should either be reimbursed for its losses or be given other spectrum in exchange that it can use for the terrestrial network. (I.e., LS has the balls to suggest that taxpayers should guarantee its speculation. Have the past 5 years taught us nothing?) LS paid a fair price for MSS spectrum (which is relatively inexpensive because the market for MSS services has never developed). It can still operate an MSS network, or sell the spectrum to someone else who wants to operate an MSS network. It still has the full value of the MSS spectrum, which it acquired at MSS prices, and has lost nothing (except many millions in legal fees fighting for authorization to build its terrestrial network). Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] AD9850 boards
Dunno if you have seen this on ebay: 260967834514 It's an AD9850 with a 125 MHz crystal mounted up on a .1 spacing board with pins, for about $8 free shipping from the Old Country. I bought 4 of 'em for the in case box (in case I need one). I have some OCXO's in the 100 MHz neighborhood that will do just fine and the hard work is done... BTW, that price is about $4 less than AD's price per chip on a 5k reel. Dunno how they do it... Best, Don -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] AD9850 boards
No kidding! My complaint for some years now is that chips and such are sold the same way as 19th century rubber goods...reps, jobbers, distributors, wholesalers, uncle TOM cobleigh and all... AnalogD does have a web store! Don Peter Gottlieb Sourcing parts in China is very different from the US or Europe. When I buy parts in the US I will first go to the distributor and get their price, then I will go to the manufacturer and get promised a better price, still through the distributor. The distributor still gets a cut, even if the parts come direct from the factory. In China, the distributor can be completely cut out (or take a much smaller cut) and the pricing blows away anything I can get here. Same parts, same factory, certified parts, and sometimes even shipped right from the factory. So in a way China is killing us on manufacturing because US manufacturers are giving the Chinese companies a strong price advantage. On 2/29/2012 6:52 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: All the chip vendors sell parts in China in quantity for about 30% to 50% less than quantity pricing in the US. When asking distributors in China how this is possible they say we Chinese expect this pricing, otherwise we wouldn't use these parts This is why it's so hard to compete with products from China... That's also why new DVD players (with red laser diodes etc etc inside) can be sold for $29 retail profitably. bye, Said In a message dated 2/29/2012 13:45:10 Pacific Standard Time, d...@montana.com writes: Dunno if you have seen this on ebay: 260967834514 It's an AD9850 with a 125 MHz crystal mounted up on a .1 spacing board with pins, for about $8 free shipping from the Old Country. I bought 4 of 'em for the in case box (in case I need one). I have some OCXO's in the 100 MHz neighborhood that will do just fine and the hard work is done... BTW, that price is about $4 less than AD's price per chip on a 5k reel. Dunno how they do it... Best, Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4843 - Release Date: 02/29/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] VK4GHZ Thunderbolt Monitor and Commander
The raspberry pi linux ARM will be available RealSoon Now; about the size of an Arduino and $35 US. Don Sam Is the development system for netduino cross platform? Yes although not as strait forward as using Windows. A quote from one of the Netduino developers says: While we work out MonoDevelop IDE integration, we've created a Netduino C# bootloader which will allow you to manually compile your C# source on Mac/Linux...and then deploy your Netduino app via MicroSD card. My plan was to borrow code from the C# adaptation by Dan Quigley N7HQ of some Lady Heather code, before discovering that M1DST had a working example running already. I'm really looking forward to the day I can have a Netduino with Ethernet port and 4x20 OLED or VFD display on the front of my 2RU case that houses my Nortel/Trimble NTGS50AA. Ideally it would feature: NTP compatible time server. Log a Lady Heather compatible file to the on-board MicroSD card. RFC 2217 remote serial port over TCP. Web interface. Sam. - Original Message - From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement [mailto:time-nuts@febo.com] Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:58:18 +1100 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] VK4GHZ Thunderbolt Monitor and Commander On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Sam li...@digitalelectric.com.au wrote: Netduino is the Arduino with an Ethernet interface on it. Not quite, The Netduino is an open-source platform using the .NET Micro Framework. Looks like you a right. To many things with name almost the same. There are Arduinos with built-in Ethernet shields. That is what I meant. My plan is to borrow some code from the NTP Palisades driver and first build a Thuderbolt library for Arduino I'd be concerned that anything related to .net would forever tie you to Microsoft. But in both cases the big things are that you don't need to build a PCB or distribute programmed chips and using Ethernet means you can see it from a web browser using a computer or phone Is the development system for netduino cross platform? - Original Message - From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement [mailto:time-nuts@febo.com] Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 15:22:49 +1100 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] VK4GHZ Thunderbolt Monitor and Commander On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Sam li...@digitalelectric.com.au wrote: I have known about this project for a while, I was excited at first but was put off by the price tag, the fact that it is closed source and that it's not available as a kit. There is another project on the horizon by James M1DST that is based on the Netduino platform which will be open source. Why does everyone think alike? This describes what I want to do also. Netduino is the Arduino with an Ethernet interface on it. It makes a good platform for this because there is no need to make a PCB or distribute a kit. The Arduino already has all the required connectors. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] VK4GHZ Thunderbolt Monitor and Commander
Gosh, and I just bought one from Sparkfun for another project :-) Don Chris Albertson On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Sam li...@digitalelectric.com.au wrote: I have known about this project for a while, I was excited at first but was put off by the price tag, the fact that it is closed source and that it's not available as a kit. There is another project on the horizon by James M1DST that is based on the Netduino platform which will be open source. Why does everyone think alike? This describes what I want to do also. Netduino is the Arduino with an Ethernet interface on it. It makes a good platform for this because there is no need to make a PCB or distribute a kit. The Arduino already has all the required connectors. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: FE-5680A Contact FEI
via Gerald's iPad Begin forwarded message: From: Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net Date: 16 February 2012 10:58:10 AEDT To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Contact FEI Reply-To: n...@verizon.net, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com I haven't personally tried but others have reported they were somewhat less than cooperative. Peter On 2/15/2012 6:23 PM, Bill Riches wrote: Just curious, Has anyone on this list actually contacted FEI and enquired about a schematic or other info about our 5680 units? They are still being sold by them. 73, Bill Riches, WA2DVU Cape May, NJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2112/4811 - Release Date: 02/15/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Contact FEI
FEI is the most surly and uncooperative company I've dealt with in 40 years. Don Peter Gottlieb I haven't personally tried but others have reported they were somewhat less than cooperative. Peter On 2/15/2012 6:23 PM, Bill Riches wrote: Just curious, Has anyone on this list actually contacted FEI and enquired about a schematic or other info about our 5680 units? They are still being sold by them. 73, Bill Riches, WA2DVU Cape May, NJ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2112/4811 - Release Date: 02/15/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
