Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Paul, gas? What gas? what soft plastic paint remover? A little more specifics would help if someone is in the need. Cheers, Magnus On 20/07/13 23:22, paul swed wrote: Hello to the group. As the various posts mention pulling the outer oven and taped wire off is a job. But thats done. The Osc is 45 Hz low hot and 200 Hz low cold. Bobs on target with his comment on what to expect. It does warm up and behave as you might expect but its all relative not exact even according to the 10811 service manual. So it could be off temperature. But very hard to say until I get a thermocouple in there. Will say the various rubbery stuff and shock absorbing stuff left one heck of a gooey mess. Oily sticky stuff.I tried oil, alcohol, turpentine, and finally gas. None really did anything. But what did was a soft plastic paint remover. That peeled the old tape and goo off very nicely. What was left was the true glue and that was removable by gas. It went from a gooey mess that stuck to everything to a pretty clean can. Next I used a small torch one of those small butane refillable units. Had it for years and never really had a use for it till now. I have started the process of opening the can. Thats not complete yet. But I cleaned enough goo off that when I heat things I don't have a smelly smoldering mess. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote: Hi If a 10811 oven is simply not working, the output will be 400 Hz off frequency. Bob On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:48 PM, ed breyae...@telight.com wrote: Paul, If the 10811 is that far off, are you sure the oven is working? A few years ago mine had a failure of a particular date code range of the opamp that controls the oven, that were prone to failure.at high temperature. The symptom in the Z3801A was that the outer oven seemed bad - it did not turn on, but it was because it was waiting for the inner one to reach nominal temperature, but it never did. Once you get it all apart, replacement of the IC is no big deal, but what a PITA to get to it. I vaguely recall posting the whole story on that website that has big coverage of the Z3801A - I can't remember the name, since I haven't been there in a while, but it should be easy to find. The website had all kinds of Z3801A info, including a nice writeup on how to take the oven apart, which is where I started. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Magnus, I am sure he does mean gasoline, petrol, benzine. I apply it quite often when other alcohols dont work e.g. spiritus (ethanol). But beware to apply only the clean issue which is specially sold for this purpose or that one sold in small metal cans for the good old cigarette lighters. It is always wise to make a little test before to be sure it does not attack the surface or parts around. To prevent explosions do it in a good ventilated area or beven better outside closed rooms (garden). Good luck, Arnold Am 31.07.2013 10:51, schrieb Magnus Danielson: Paul, gas? What gas? what soft plastic paint remover? A little more specifics would help if someone is in the need. Cheers, Magnus On 20/07/13 23:22, paul swed wrote: Hello to the group. As the various posts mention pulling the outer oven and taped wire off is a job. But thats done. The Osc is 45 Hz low hot and 200 Hz low cold. Bobs on target with his comment on what to expect. It does warm up and behave as you might expect but its all relative not exact even according to the 10811 service manual. So it could be off temperature. But very hard to say until I get a thermocouple in there. Will say the various rubbery stuff and shock absorbing stuff left one heck of a gooey mess. Oily sticky stuff.I tried oil, alcohol, turpentine, and finally gas. None really did anything. But what did was a soft plastic paint remover. That peeled the old tape and goo off very nicely. What was left was the true glue and that was removable by gas. It went from a gooey mess that stuck to everything to a pretty clean can. Next I used a small torch one of those small butane refillable units. Had it for years and never really had a use for it till now. I have started the process of opening the can. Thats not complete yet. But I cleaned enough goo off that when I heat things I don't have a smelly smoldering mess. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote: Hi If a 10811 oven is simply not working, the output will be 400 Hz off frequency. Bob On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:48 PM, ed breyae...@telight.com wrote: Paul, If the 10811 is that far off, are you sure the oven is working? A few years ago mine had a failure of a particular date code range of the opamp that controls the oven, that were prone to failure.at high temperature. The symptom in the Z3801A was that the outer oven seemed bad - it did not turn on, but it was because it was waiting for the inner one to reach nominal temperature, but it never did. Once you get it all apart, replacement of the IC is no big deal, but what a PITA to get to it. I vaguely recall posting the whole story on that website that has big coverage of the Z3801A - I can't remember the name, since I haven't been there in a while, but it should be easy to find. The website had all kinds of Z3801A info, including a nice writeup on how to take the oven apart, which is where I started. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
I suspect by gas he meant gasoline. I don't know about what paint remover he meant but I have another suggestion that might have worked. For cleaning label gunk off of used test equipment I have used automotive bug and tar remover. Seems to loosen up lots of gunk but not so strong it hurts the panel paint and lettering. On 7/31/2013 1:51 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Paul, gas? What gas? what soft plastic paint remover? A little more specifics would help if someone is in the need. Cheers, Magnus On 20/07/13 23:22, paul swed wrote: Hello to the group. As the various posts mention pulling the outer oven and taped wire off is a job. But thats done. The Osc is 45 Hz low hot and 200 Hz low cold. Bobs on target with his comment on what to expect. It does warm up and behave as you might expect but its all relative not exact even according to the 10811 service manual. So it could be off temperature. But very hard to say until I get a thermocouple in there. Will say the various rubbery stuff and shock absorbing stuff left one heck of a gooey mess. Oily sticky stuff.I tried oil, alcohol, turpentine, and finally gas. None really did anything. But what did was a soft plastic paint remover. That peeled the old tape and goo off very nicely. What was left was the true glue and that was removable by gas. It went from a gooey mess that stuck to everything to a pretty clean can. Next I used a small torch one of those small butane refillable units. Had it for years and never really had a use for it till now. I have started the process of opening the can. Thats not complete yet. But I cleaned enough goo off that when I heat things I don't have a smelly smoldering mess. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote: Hi If a 10811 oven is simply not working, the output will be 400 Hz off frequency. Bob On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:48 PM, ed breyae...@telight.com wrote: Paul, If the 10811 is that far off, are you sure the oven is working? A few years ago mine had a failure of a particular date code range of the opamp that controls the oven, that were prone to failure.at high temperature. The symptom in the Z3801A was that the outer oven seemed bad - it did not turn on, but it was because it was waiting for the inner one to reach nominal temperature, but it never did. Once you get it all apart, replacement of the IC is no big deal, but what a PITA to get to it. I vaguely recall posting the whole story on that website that has big coverage of the Z3801A - I can't remember the name, since I haven't been there in a while, but it should be easy to find. The website had all kinds of Z3801A info, including a nice writeup on how to take the oven apart, which is where I started. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Paint remover turpentine Gas = gasoline Ovens all clean now of the goo. But its still off frequency Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote: I suspect by gas he meant gasoline. I don't know about what paint remover he meant but I have another suggestion that might have worked. For cleaning label gunk off of used test equipment I have used automotive bug and tar remover. Seems to loosen up lots of gunk but not so strong it hurts the panel paint and lettering. On 7/31/2013 1:51 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Paul, gas? What gas? what soft plastic paint remover? A little more specifics would help if someone is in the need. Cheers, Magnus On 20/07/13 23:22, paul swed wrote: Hello to the group. As the various posts mention pulling the outer oven and taped wire off is a job. But thats done. The Osc is 45 Hz low hot and 200 Hz low cold. Bobs on target with his comment on what to expect. It does warm up and behave as you might expect but its all relative not exact even according to the 10811 service manual. So it could be off temperature. But very hard to say until I get a thermocouple in there. Will say the various rubbery stuff and shock absorbing stuff left one heck of a gooey mess. Oily sticky stuff.I tried oil, alcohol, turpentine, and finally gas. None really did anything. But what did was a soft plastic paint remover. That peeled the old tape and goo off very nicely. What was left was the true glue and that was removable by gas. It went from a gooey mess that stuck to everything to a pretty clean can. Next I used a small torch one of those small butane refillable units. Had it for years and never really had a use for it till now. I have started the process of opening the can. Thats not complete yet. But I cleaned enough goo off that when I heat things I don't have a smelly smoldering mess. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote: Hi If a 10811 oven is simply not working, the output will be 400 Hz off frequency. Bob On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:48 PM, ed breyae...@telight.com wrote: Paul, If the 10811 is that far off, are you sure the oven is working? A few years ago mine had a failure of a particular date code range of the opamp that controls the oven, that were prone to failure.at high temperature. The symptom in the Z3801A was that the outer oven seemed bad - it did not turn on, but it was because it was waiting for the inner one to reach nominal temperature, but it never did. Once you get it all apart, replacement of the IC is no big deal, but what a PITA to get to it. I vaguely recall posting the whole story on that website that has big coverage of the Z3801A - I can't remember the name, since I haven't been there in a while, but it should be easy to find. The website had all kinds of Z3801A info, including a nice writeup on how to take the oven apart, which is where I started. Ed __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Hi Paul (and others), On 31/07/13 15:37, paul swed wrote: Paint remover turpentine Gas = gasoline Thanks! Ovens all clean now of the goo. But its still off frequency Bummer. Hope it can resolve itself with some more debugging and test of ideas with the good folks here. Have a few more 10811s to test out. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Can popped open pretty easily. Now to start to measure voltages to see if things are within tolerance. On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 5:22 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Hello to the group. As the various posts mention pulling the outer oven and taped wire off is a job. But thats done. The Osc is 45 Hz low hot and 200 Hz low cold. Bobs on target with his comment on what to expect. It does warm up and behave as you might expect but its all relative not exact even according to the 10811 service manual. So it could be off temperature. But very hard to say until I get a thermocouple in there. Will say the various rubbery stuff and shock absorbing stuff left one heck of a gooey mess. Oily sticky stuff.I tried oil, alcohol, turpentine, and finally gas. None really did anything. But what did was a soft plastic paint remover. That peeled the old tape and goo off very nicely. What was left was the true glue and that was removable by gas. It went from a gooey mess that stuck to everything to a pretty clean can. Next I used a small torch one of those small butane refillable units. Had it for years and never really had a use for it till now. I have started the process of opening the can. Thats not complete yet. But I cleaned enough goo off that when I heat things I don't have a smelly smoldering mess. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi If a 10811 oven is simply not working, the output will be 400 Hz off frequency. Bob On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:48 PM, ed breya e...@telight.com wrote: Paul, If the 10811 is that far off, are you sure the oven is working? A few years ago mine had a failure of a particular date code range of the opamp that controls the oven, that were prone to failure.at high temperature. The symptom in the Z3801A was that the outer oven seemed bad - it did not turn on, but it was because it was waiting for the inner one to reach nominal temperature, but it never did. Once you get it all apart, replacement of the IC is no big deal, but what a PITA to get to it. I vaguely recall posting the whole story on that website that has big coverage of the Z3801A - I can't remember the name, since I haven't been there in a while, but it should be easy to find. The website had all kinds of Z3801A info, including a nice writeup on how to take the oven apart, which is where I started. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Charles sorry for the delayed answer, see below for why. I did my own thing for the outer oven controller. Mark C. S. was kind enough to redraw the schematic of what I made and post it on his site. http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/?p=526 Do you know that often *your* postings do not show up on the time-nut listing I use at http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/ Which is a shame because I find your responses interesting. I just saw your past question today by accident elsewhere. Strange enough, I've seen this a little with others, but yours has been the most noticeable. BTW your time-nut postings do show up other places. ws - Original Message - From: Charles P. Steinmetz To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller. Warren, Did you use an existing outer oven controller, or build your own? Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Warren S and I have posted details of an outer oven controller for the 10811 double oven series here: http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/?p=526 --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Marki Funny timing. I am working on a 10811 from a z3801 and am working towards opening the can its soldered. Steve Smiths posts have been very helpful. But I am dealing with lots of black melted goo. Not really from heat. Just age the way a lot of things deteriorate. That said I will be trying to figure out why the 10811 is -45Hz at temp. Thats sounds very bad and hope the rocks not the issue. But good to read improvements also. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.auwrote: Warren S and I have posted details of an outer oven controller for the 10811 double oven series here: http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/?p=526 --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Paul, If the 10811 is that far off, are you sure the oven is working? A few years ago mine had a failure of a particular date code range of the opamp that controls the oven, that were prone to failure.at high temperature. The symptom in the Z3801A was that the outer oven seemed bad - it did not turn on, but it was because it was waiting for the inner one to reach nominal temperature, but it never did. Once you get it all apart, replacement of the IC is no big deal, but what a PITA to get to it. I vaguely recall posting the whole story on that website that has big coverage of the Z3801A - I can't remember the name, since I haven't been there in a while, but it should be easy to find. The website had all kinds of Z3801A info, including a nice writeup on how to take the oven apart, which is where I started. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Hi If a 10811 oven is simply not working, the output will be 400 Hz off frequency. Bob On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:48 PM, ed breya e...@telight.com wrote: Paul, If the 10811 is that far off, are you sure the oven is working? A few years ago mine had a failure of a particular date code range of the opamp that controls the oven, that were prone to failure.at high temperature. The symptom in the Z3801A was that the outer oven seemed bad - it did not turn on, but it was because it was waiting for the inner one to reach nominal temperature, but it never did. Once you get it all apart, replacement of the IC is no big deal, but what a PITA to get to it. I vaguely recall posting the whole story on that website that has big coverage of the Z3801A - I can't remember the name, since I haven't been there in a while, but it should be easy to find. The website had all kinds of Z3801A info, including a nice writeup on how to take the oven apart, which is where I started. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
Hello to the group. As the various posts mention pulling the outer oven and taped wire off is a job. But thats done. The Osc is 45 Hz low hot and 200 Hz low cold. Bobs on target with his comment on what to expect. It does warm up and behave as you might expect but its all relative not exact even according to the 10811 service manual. So it could be off temperature. But very hard to say until I get a thermocouple in there. Will say the various rubbery stuff and shock absorbing stuff left one heck of a gooey mess. Oily sticky stuff.I tried oil, alcohol, turpentine, and finally gas. None really did anything. But what did was a soft plastic paint remover. That peeled the old tape and goo off very nicely. What was left was the true glue and that was removable by gas. It went from a gooey mess that stuck to everything to a pretty clean can. Next I used a small torch one of those small butane refillable units. Had it for years and never really had a use for it till now. I have started the process of opening the can. Thats not complete yet. But I cleaned enough goo off that when I heat things I don't have a smelly smoldering mess. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi If a 10811 oven is simply not working, the output will be 400 Hz off frequency. Bob On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:48 PM, ed breya e...@telight.com wrote: Paul, If the 10811 is that far off, are you sure the oven is working? A few years ago mine had a failure of a particular date code range of the opamp that controls the oven, that were prone to failure.at high temperature. The symptom in the Z3801A was that the outer oven seemed bad - it did not turn on, but it was because it was waiting for the inner one to reach nominal temperature, but it never did. Once you get it all apart, replacement of the IC is no big deal, but what a PITA to get to it. I vaguely recall posting the whole story on that website that has big coverage of the Z3801A - I can't remember the name, since I haven't been there in a while, but it should be easy to find. The website had all kinds of Z3801A info, including a nice writeup on how to take the oven apart, which is where I started. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic
The original post has updated Circuit (different transistors and less minor changes) Also now included is the circuit of the inner oven controller. http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/?p=526 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013 1:21 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic Warren S and I have posted details of an outer oven controller for the 10811 double oven series here: http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/?p=526 --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Hi The schematic and explanation on that page pretty well show how the P2/8 shutdown pin from the CPU works on the outer oven in the Z3801. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ed Palmer Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:09 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller. The schematic has been around for some time. Although it's not the original site (which I believe is now gone), Didier has reposted the info at: http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/05%29_GPS_Timing/Z3801/Z3801A_Outer_Oven/Web_Pa ge/Z3801A%20Outer%20Oven%20Controller.htm If necessary, be sure to remove any carriage returns or linefeeds in the URL. Ed On 7/15/2013 7:56 PM, Robert Darby wrote: Is anyone aware of a schematic for the oscillator on the web? I have downloaded the usual 10811 manuals but I've never seen a schematic or description of the pin-outs for the double-oven version. Bob Darby On 7/12/2013 11:38 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Is it enough if I have a schematic to send? But first let me find it... On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: I have a spare 10811 double oven, is there a homebrew outer oven controller floating around? -Marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
You can find a super-simple oven controller here: http://www.romanblack.com/xoven.htm On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi The schematic and explanation on that page pretty well show how the P2/8 shutdown pin from the CPU works on the outer oven in the Z3801. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ed Palmer Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:09 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller. The schematic has been around for some time. Although it's not the original site (which I believe is now gone), Didier has reposted the info at: http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/05%29_GPS_Timing/Z3801/Z3801A_Outer_Oven/Web_Pa ge/Z3801A%20Outer%20Oven%20Controller.htm If necessary, be sure to remove any carriage returns or linefeeds in the URL. Ed On 7/15/2013 7:56 PM, Robert Darby wrote: Is anyone aware of a schematic for the oscillator on the web? I have downloaded the usual 10811 manuals but I've never seen a schematic or description of the pin-outs for the double-oven version. Bob Darby On 7/12/2013 11:38 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Is it enough if I have a schematic to send? But first let me find it... On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: I have a spare 10811 double oven, is there a homebrew outer oven controller floating around? -Marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. In general the time constant one chooses must reflect both the intrinsic performance of the OCXO (essentially constant) and the realities of GPSDO mechanical, sky-view, and environmental conditions (possibly variable). Disabling an oven during a run is equivalent to a radical change in environment and not re-tuning the loop parameters will lead to sub-optimal or misleading results when plotted. If you have time, it would be instructive to re-run the experiment. First with double oven enabled and do your best case ws-tuning. Then disable the outer oven and again do a best-case tuning. The phase/freq/adev plots would be revealing, as well as the (major?) difference in optimal tuning values. /tvb (iPhone4) On Jul 14, 2013, at 9:19 PM, WarrenS warrensjmail-...@yahoo.com wrote: Tom My posting and plot was only meant to show the difference in tempcoef between an undisciplined single and dual oven 10811 osc which in this case is clearly = 60 to 1. Your comments bring up a different subject which is who needs it and how good does a controlled GPSDO oscillator need to be when not in holdover. As you know, the purpose of a GPSDO control loop is to make the oscillator's long term stability relatively un-important. The longer the measurement time the less important the stability of the controlled osc is in a GPSDO, and as time increases past the GPSDO control loop time constant, the osc stability matters less and less What you are seeing and saying when analyzing the phase and Freq errors plots, is closed loop performance. The phase and freq plots of the dual oven osc would pretty look the same even if compared with a 'perfect' osc, because the dual osc plots is already near or at the noise floor of that TBolt setup and antenna. One can measure the longer term stability of an oscillator different ways; 1) Hold the EFC voltage constant and measure the change in frequency or phase with time. 2) Measure the scaled EFC change necessary to hold the oscillator's freq or phase output constant When done carefully and with the EFC voltage scaled correctly both ways can give the same answer. Answer1) The way I measured the two tempco's is by measuring the correlation between the EFC control voltage and the temperature plot In the case of the single oven osc, the plot gains are set so that when overlayed the EFC DAC plot looks as close as possible to the temperature plot. When the plot time is 24 hr and there is good repeatability, the TC is just the ratio of the two plot gains, i.e theEffective EFC freq change divided by the delta temp. In the single oven case DAC plot gain = 1e-10 per division, temp plot gain = 1.5C per division. Tempco = 1e-10 / 1.5 == 6.7 e-11 / degC. I did the same thing for the dual oven trace by expanding the gain and zero ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
The Tbolt LadyHeather plots in my posting are being used as a poor mans high resolution TIC tester as discussed at length in other postings, not for it's GPSDO output capability. This is a method that allows a time-nut person that does not have any of the high end equipment still the ability to do a lot of the high end state of the art time-nut testing. So in this case, it is valid to compare the results of the EFC changes with different types of ovens or even different oscillators such as for finding an oscillators tempco and ageing, as long as the plots are interpreted correctly, because the GPSDO tuning settings have very little if any effect on the long term EFC voltage plots. I have found that one of the largest variables in a GPSDO is the effect that temperature change has on the performance of the OCXO being disciplined. This makes the stability of the OXCO very much a non-constant, in fact temperature effect on the OXCO is the largest variable in many setups. That is why to achieve the best GPSDO performance, or even consistent performance between different runs when using a typical single oven GPSDO, one needs to build a brick house in the basement or put the OXCO under test in a temperature controlled environment such as a dual oven or LH temperature controlled S/W loop. All secondary temperature control devices have the same general goal which is to minimize or eliminate any fast temperature changes and therefore allow the GPSDO to take full advantages of the OCXO's then essentially constant intrinsic performance. Before doing any meaningful comparisons between single and dual oven GPSDOs or comparing the difference in optimal tuning settings, one must first define what the temperature environment is. If the temperature is not allowed to change then there is no difference. With a good dual oven set up, temperature change will have little or no effect, whereas with most time-nut available single oven oscillators including the single oven 10811, temperature variation is the first thing one needs to be consider before tuning for optimal performance. ws ** from Tom Van Baak (lab) tvb at leapsecond.com Mon Jul 15 12:22:38 EDT 2013 Ok, thanks for clarifying. In general the time constant one chooses must reflect both the intrinsic performance of the OCXO (essentially constant) and the realities of GPSDO mechanical, sky-view, and environmental conditions (possibly variable). Disabling an oven during a run is equivalent to a radical change in environment and not re-tuning the loop parameters will lead to sub-optimal or misleading results when plotted. If you have time, it would be instructive to re-run the experiment. First with double oven enabled and do your best case ws-tuning. Then disable the outer oven and again do a best-case tuning. The phase/freq/adev plots would be revealing, as well as the (major?) difference in optimal tuning values. /tvb (iPhone4) ** From: WarrenS Tom My posting and plot was only meant to show the difference in tempco between an undisciplined single and dual oven 10811 osc which in this case is clearly = 60 to 1. Your comments bring up a different subject which is who needs it and how good does a controlled GPSDO oscillator need to be when not in holdover. As you know, the purpose of a GPSDO control loop is to make the oscillator's long term stability relatively un-important. The longer the measurement time the less important the stability of the controlled osc is in a GPSDO, and as time increases past the GPSDO control loop time constant, the osc stability matters less and less What you are seeing and saying when analyzing the phase and Freq errors plots, is closed loop performance. The phase and freq plots of the dual oven osc would pretty look the same even if compared with a 'perfect' osc, because the dual osc plots is already near or at the noise floor of that TBolt setup and antenna. One can measure the longer term stability of an oscillator different ways; 1) Hold the EFC voltage constant and measure the change in frequency or phase with time. 2) Measure the scaled EFC change necessary to hold the oscillator's freq or phase output constant When done carefully and with the EFC voltage scaled correctly both ways can give the same answer. Answer1) The way I measured the two tempco's is by measuring the correlation between the EFC control voltage and the temperature plot In the case of the single oven osc, the plot gains are set so that when overlaid the EFC DAC plot looks as close as possible to the temperature plot. When the plot time is 24 hr and there is good repeatability, the TC is just the ratio of the two plot gains, i.e the effective EFC freq change divided by the delta temp. In the single oven case DAC plot gain = 1e-10 per division, temp plot gain = 1.5C per division. Tempco = 1e-10 / 1.5 == 6.7 e-11 / degC. I did the same thing for the dual
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Hi Warren, I'm a little late to the party, because I just got my GPSDO working. My OCXO (34310-T) is swinging up to 5 or so counts in a 16 second sample and a much bigger swing over 24 hours as reflected in the DAC recording. Do you see any improvement available from passive methods, such as building a foam blanket around the OCXO? Yeah, I could just swap in a better OCXO, but I usually take the less traditional path. =) Bob - AE6RV From: WarrenS warrensjmail-...@yahoo.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller. The Tbolt LadyHeather plots in my posting are being used as a poor mans high resolution TIC tester as discussed at length in other postings, not for it's GPSDO output capability. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Is anyone aware of a schematic for the oscillator on the web? I have downloaded the usual 10811 manuals but I've never seen a schematic or description of the pin-outs for the double-oven version. Bob Darby On 7/12/2013 11:38 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Is it enough if I have a schematic to send? But first let me find it... On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: I have a spare 10811 double oven, is there a homebrew outer oven controller floating around? -Marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Hi, the recent discussion about 10811's with double oven's caused me to take another look at some of the data I've collected from one of my two GPSDO's that uses a 10811 double oven OCXO. I realize there is much more to the performance of a GPSDO than the OCXO but I can't say I'm unhappy with the performance of this GPSDO and have no complaints about the performance of the OCXO in this application. I expect the data at tau 40 seconds is skewed by the noise of the HP5370B. Sorry that data table for these plots shows the data that is more relevant at longer Tau's (it doesn't show the values for the comparison between the BVA and the Z3805) but the plots show the results at shorter Tau's. As a side note, running standalone none of the 8 or so single oven 10811's I own have ever been able to consistently deliver ADEV or MADEV plots in the 13's at tau's that I am able to measure (ie 40 seconds.) Regards Mark S https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmpnuos0ei324s4/Composite%20MADEV.png?m https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wm2wb6uj9jei7a/Composite%2520ADEV%5B2%5D.png?m -- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:16:22 -0700 From: WarrenS warrensjmail-...@yahoo.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller. Message-ID: 8FAFF758C2AB473EBFAC769FA195DB36@Warcon28Gz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response The Tbolt LadyHeather plots in my posting are being used as a poor mans high resolution TIC tester as discussed at length in other postings, not for it's GPSDO output capability. This is a method that allows a time-nut person that does not have any of the high end equipment still the ability to do a lot of the high end state of the art time-nut testing. So in this case, it is valid to compare the results of the EFC changes with different types of ovens or even different oscillators such as for finding an oscillators tempco and ageing, as long as the plots are interpreted correctly, because the GPSDO tuning settings have very little if any effect on the long term EFC voltage plots. I have found that one of the largest variables in a GPSDO is the effect that temperature change has on the performance of the OCXO being disciplined. This makes the stability of the OXCO very much a non-constant, in fact temperature effect on the OXCO is the largest variable in many setups. That is why to achieve the best GPSDO performance, or even consistent performance between different runs when using a typical single oven GPSDO, one needs to build a brick house in the basement or put the OXCO under test in a temperature controlled environment such as a dual oven or LH temperature controlled S/W loop. All secondary temperature control devices have the same general goal which is to minimize or eliminate any fast temperature changes and therefore allow the GPSDO to take full advantages of the OCXO's then essentially constant intrinsic performance. Before doing any meaningful comparisons between single and dual oven GPSDOs or comparing the difference in optimal tuning settings, one must first define what the temperature environment is. If the temperature is not allowed to change then there is no difference. With a good dual oven set up, temperature change will have little or no effect, whereas with most time-nut available single oven oscillators including the single oven 10811, temperature variation is the first thing one needs to be consider before tuning for optimal performance. ws ** from Tom Van Baak (lab) tvb at leapsecond.com Mon Jul 15 12:22:38 EDT 2013 Ok, thanks for clarifying. In general the time constant one chooses must reflect both the intrinsic performance of the OCXO (essentially constant) and the realities of GPSDO mechanical, sky-view, and environmental conditions (possibly variable). Disabling an oven during a run is equivalent to a radical change in environment and not re-tuning the loop parameters will lead to sub-optimal or misleading results when plotted. If you have time, it would be instructive to re-run the experiment. First with double oven enabled and do your best case ws-tuning. Then disable the outer oven and again do a best-case tuning. The phase/freq/adev plots would be revealing, as well as the (major?) difference in optimal tuning values. /tvb (iPhone4) ** From: WarrenS Tom My posting and plot was only meant to show the difference in tempco between an undisciplined single and dual oven 10811 osc which in this case is clearly = 60 to 1. Your comments bring up a different subject which is who needs it and how good does a controlled GPSDO oscillator need to be when not in holdover. As you know, the purpose of a GPSDO control loop is to make the oscillator's long term stability relatively un-important. The longer the measurement
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
The schematic has been around for some time. Although it's not the original site (which I believe is now gone), Didier has reposted the info at: http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/05%29_GPS_Timing/Z3801/Z3801A_Outer_Oven/Web_Page/Z3801A%20Outer%20Oven%20Controller.htm If necessary, be sure to remove any carriage returns or linefeeds in the URL. Ed On 7/15/2013 7:56 PM, Robert Darby wrote: Is anyone aware of a schematic for the oscillator on the web? I have downloaded the usual 10811 manuals but I've never seen a schematic or description of the pin-outs for the double-oven version. Bob Darby On 7/12/2013 11:38 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Is it enough if I have a schematic to send? But first let me find it... On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: I have a spare 10811 double oven, is there a homebrew outer oven controller floating around? -Marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Hi Warren,
That's a really nice plot.
One comment about the 60:1 quote, though. The plot shows the improvement is
only 4x when you look at the TI data (what you call phase noise). And the
plot shows the improvement is only 1.25x when you look at the OSC data.
Further, if you were to plot the actual output of the TBolt (instead of
plotting internal PLL loop statistics) I think you'd find these ratios get even
less impressive.
Thus the other way to interpret the plot is to say that in spite of the 60x
difference an outer oven makes to the tempco of a stand-alone quartz
oscillator, it falls to just 1.25x when used in a GPSDO. One could rightly
conclude then that outer ovens just aren't that important to the stability of a
locked GPSDO.
Two questions,
1) How did you calculate the two tempco values (1e-12, 6e-11)? From the plot or
with other tests?
2) Was the time constant (800 s, 0.9 damping) optimized for outer oven turned
on case? Was it re-optimized for the outer oven off case?
/tvb
- Original Message -
From: WarrenS warrensjmail-...@yahoo.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Bob said {the 10811 will run fine without the outer oven}
What I've seen is that a dual oven 10811 will run even **finer** and have up
to 100 times less sensitivity to normal room temperature changes with a
simple outer oven controller and a few mods.
In 2010 I compared the performance of a TBolt using an external dual oven
10811 Osc with and without it's outer oven being controlled.
There was more than a 60 to 1 improvement in the 10811's freq sensitivity to
small room temperature changes when the outer oven was active.
Open loop 10811 TC was 1e-12 /C with the dual oven on compared to 6e-11/C
with it off.
The green trace shows how much less EFC correction is needed to be to keep
the 10811's frequency constant when the dual oven is active.
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20100223/c94d5eec/attachment-0001.gif
ws
*
- Original Message -
From: Bob Camp
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Hi
The outer oven on that version is simply a warmup heater. If it's
operating properly, it drops out in normal operation. Put another way - the
10811 will run fine without it.
Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Tom My posting and plot was only meant to show the difference in tempcoef between an undisciplined single and dual oven 10811 osc which in this case is clearly = 60 to 1. Your comments bring up a different subject which is who needs it and how good does a controlled GPSDO oscillator need to be when not in holdover. As you know, the purpose of a GPSDO control loop is to make the oscillator's long term stability relatively un-important. The longer the measurement time the less important the stability of the controlled osc is in a GPSDO, and as time increases past the GPSDO control loop time constant, the osc stability matters less and less What you are seeing and saying when analyzing the phase and Freq errors plots, is closed loop performance. The phase and freq plots of the dual oven osc would pretty look the same even if compared with a 'perfect' osc, because the dual osc plots is already near or at the noise floor of that TBolt setup and antenna. One can measure the longer term stability of an oscillator different ways; 1) Hold the EFC voltage constant and measure the change in frequency or phase with time. 2) Measure the scaled EFC change necessary to hold the oscillator's freq or phase output constant When done carefully and with the EFC voltage scaled correctly both ways can give the same answer. Answer1) The way I measured the two tempco's is by measuring the correlation between the EFC control voltage and the temperature plot In the case of the single oven osc, the plot gains are set so that when overlayed the EFC DAC plot looks as close as possible to the temperature plot. When the plot time is 24 hr and there is good repeatability, the TC is just the ratio of the two plot gains, i.e theEffective EFC freq change divided by the delta temp. In the single oven case DAC plot gain = 1e-10 per division, temp plot gain = 1.5C per division. Tempco = 1e-10 / 1.5 == 6.7 e-11 / degC. I did the same thing for the dual oven trace by expanding the gain and zero offset of the DAC plot until it looked like the temperature plot. In the dual oven case because of the lower correlation (aka noise) and limited run time (under 24 hrs) I could only say the TC was under the resolution for that measurement period and filter setting which was 1e-12 / degC. With longer run times and more care it is posible to measure TempCo with resolution under 1e-13 / degC, which I've done for the LPRO. Answer2) The 800 sec TC 0.9 damping was fixed throughout the run and is a nominal value I often use with good external oscillators on my TBolt (or a LH temp controlled internal osc). As you said, for this run and set of conditions, the dual oven did not help that much even though the dual oven oscillator is much more stable by 60 to 1 with temperature changes. To take advantages of all of the extra stability of the dual oven I can set the extended TC has high as 3000 to 5000. Also note that at during that run time, the temperature only changed about 3 deg C. If this test where done when the temperature changed say 15 deg C over a short time period then you would really be noticing the difference between the two oscillators in the disciplined mode. In summery that picture is what I had on hand to show the performance difference in a 10811 dual oven and single oven operation. In this case the TBold is just being used as a TIC substitute to show relative differences in the EFC voltage over time periods 1000 second, and therefore only the green plot should be used to see what the oscillator would do if it where in open loop and undisciplined. It is fair to assume, and the other plots verify, that the GPS contol loop is doing it's job good enough and holding the long term freq and phase of the osc constant enough for valid freq measurments to be made using mode 2 above from the EFC voltage. ws * ** - Original Message - From: Tom Van Baak Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller. Hi Warren, That's a really nice plot. One comment about the 60:1 quote, though. The plot shows the improvement is only 4x when you look at the TI data (what you call phase noise). And the plot shows the improvement is only 1.25x when you look at the OSC data. Further, if you were to plot the actual output of the TBolt (instead of plotting internal PLL loop statistics) I think you'd find these ratios get even less impressive. Thus the other way to interpret the plot is to say that in spite of the 60x difference an outer oven makes to the tempco of a stand-alone quartz oscillator, it falls to just 1.25x when used in a GPSDO. One could rightly conclude then that outer ovens just aren't that important to the stability of a locked GPSDO. Two questions, 1) How did you calculate the two tempco values (1e-12, 6e-11)? From the plot or with other tests? 2) Was the time
[time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
I have a spare 10811 double oven, is there a homebrew outer oven controller floating around? -Marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Is it enough if I have a schematic to send? But first let me find it... On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: I have a spare 10811 double oven, is there a homebrew outer oven controller floating around? -Marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Sure, Maybe there is a market for a run of them ;) -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013 1:38 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller. Is it enough if I have a schematic to send? But first let me find it... On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: I have a spare 10811 double oven, is there a homebrew outer oven controller floating around? -Marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Hi The outer oven on that version is simply a warmup heater. If it's operating properly, it drops out in normal operation. Put another way - the 10811 will run fine without it. Bob On Jul 12, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: Sure, Maybe there is a market for a run of them ;) -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013 1:38 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller. Is it enough if I have a schematic to send? But first let me find it... On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: I have a spare 10811 double oven, is there a homebrew outer oven controller floating around? -Marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Bob said {the 10811 will run fine without the outer oven}
What I've seen is that a dual oven 10811 will run even **finer** and have up
to 100 times less sensitivity to normal room temperature changes with a
simple outer oven controller and a few mods.
In 2010 I compared the performance of a TBolt using an external dual oven
10811 Osc with and without it's outer oven being controlled.
There was more than a 60 to 1 improvement in the 10811's freq sensitivity to
small room temperature changes when the outer oven was active.
Open loop 10811 TC was 1e-12 /C with the dual oven on compared to 6e-11/C
with it off.
The green trace shows how much less EFC correction is needed to be to keep
the 10811's frequency constant when the dual oven is active.
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20100223/c94d5eec/attachment-0001.gif
ws
*
- Original Message -
From: Bob Camp
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 outer oven controller.
Hi
The outer oven on that version is simply a warmup heater. If it's
operating properly, it drops out in normal operation. Put another way - the
10811 will run fine without it.
Bob
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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