Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Tom:

I have some info on this at:
http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

 Original Message 

I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently on eBay but have not yet
received it.

Is that special D-Submin connector a receptacle-shell, pin contact
version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket contact 25-pin D-Submin fit it?

Hi,

I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful comments.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A oscillators that I've seen and 
tested look like this:

http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/

And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 connector on the PCB. For 
connections, see that page, or any number of postings about the E1938 in the 
time-nuts archives.

Note that on eBay there are at least three variations of E1938A oscillator. The 
item#'s below are just random search picks (I have no affiliation with any 
buyers or sellers) and I also know not all surplus refurbished surplus recycled 
surplus stuff works. But we do this because when they did work, they are 
sometimes totally amazing.

1) There's the bare "puck" alone, as in http://www.ebay.com/itm/290829077542 -- 
and I have no idea where one would start with that item since all the support circuitry 
on the PCB would have to be re-created by hand.

2) There's the integrated PCB assembly, as in 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181043193416 -- which is more like what I tested.

3) There's the full instrument version, as in 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171293069062 -- which is most likely to work, or be 
less hacked up, or dented, or salvaged, or rusted. It even has all the 
connectors and power supplies, and GPS, etc.

If any other time nuts have experience with each of these methods to obtain a 
E1938 oscillator, please let us know.

Thanks,
/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[David G. McGaw]

I just heated up with a soldering iron and pulled out the pins of a standard 
DB25 connector that would get in the way.  No problem, lovely budgie.


David N1HAC



From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Bruce Griffiths 
<bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:11 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement; Larry McDavid
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

More precisely the active EFC range is +1.25 to +3.75V with an absolute minimum 
of 0V and an absolute max of +5V.

At least this is the range that the pseudo differential AD7714 ADC inputs 
monitoring the EFC are configured for.

Bruce

> On 16 April 2017 at 14:57 Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> 0 to +5V dc max, however only the 0 to 2.5V range appears measurable by 
> the AD7714 ADC on the PCB.
>
> Increasing the EFC voltage decreases the capacitance in series with the 
> crystal requiring an increase in the inductance exhibited by the crystal 
> hence requiring a lower oscillator frequency.
>
> Bruce
>
> > >
> > On 16 April 2017 at 13:01 Larry McDavid <lmcda...@lmceng.com> wrote:
> >
> > The units now available on eBay have various types of D-Subminiature
> > connectors and can be on either side of the board. I will have to 
> > wait
> > until my unit arrives to see what I get. It should be possible, if
> > necessary, to remove the connector and replace it with a more 
> > convenient
> > D-Submin connector on the desired side of the board.
> >
> > I did not originally note the additional zip'd info available from 
> > that
> > eBay website but now have those files. Thanks for that link.
> >
> > So far, I have not seen any spec for the EFC voltage and polarities 
> > used
> > in the "Integrated PWB." Anyone know that?
> >
> > The "full instrument" version also available now on eBay is a 
> > complete
> > GPSDO but at $130 plus $80 shipping. I really don't need yet another
> > GPSDO but would use the integrated PWB assembly for a low ADEV
> > free-running 10 MHz source. I have a HP 10811D for that now but will
> > evaluate this new unit for performance.
> >
> > Anyone have experience doing this and know the EFC requirements?
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > On 4/15/2017 4:01 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> >
> > > > >
> > > It's been 20 years, but I will try to recap what I remember
> > > about this connector. I believe there were 3 customers,
> > > and one of them required the DB connector with coax inserts
> > > for reasons of backward compatibility. I think this
> > > vendor was Motorola. We did not actually use the coax
> > > inserts, but left them blank and ran the RF, etc on
> > > ordinary pins. I believe you can make an ordinary male
> > > DB-25 mate with these insert versions by clipping off some
> > > of the pins that would be blocked by the female insert
> > > version. I vaguely remember that the other 2 vendors
> > > used gender changers or something. There might have
> > > an issue with the mating plane location being different
> > > for different customers.
> > >
> > > I am sure that time-nuts, being talented at repurposing,
> > > will be able to think about this problem and come up with
> > > a simple solution to interfacing with these boards.
> > > No need to buy insert type connectors. I never had
> > > any trouble making cables that connected to these units
> > > using plain vanilla DB25's.
> > >
> > > Rick N6RK
> > >
> > > On 4/15/2017 10:42 AM, Larry McDavid wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > Ok, so a standard DB 25-pin socket-contact connector 
> > > > will mate with the
> > > > on-board connector with the center hole and missing 
> > > > pins. That's good!
> > > >
> > > > I now notice a comment on your webpages about this 
> > > 

Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Richard Solomon]

Mention of the E1938 reminded me that I have a schematic that

measures 36" X 72" (yes, 3 feet by 6 feet) !! Talk about readability.


Also, somewhere, I still have one of them. I'll need to go find it and

try firing it up.


Now you got me going again ...


73, Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>

From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Larry McDavid 
<lmcda...@lmceng.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 10:42:40 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

Ok, so a standard DB 25-pin socket-contact connector will mate with the
on-board connector with the center hole and missing pins. That's good!

I now notice a comment on your webpages about this device in which you
mention a schematic. Do you have a schematic of this board? If so, can
you point to it or send me a copy.

I was unaware of the complete packaged unit on eBay; thanks for that.

Another poster mentioned the wiring of the connector on the full
instrument version power connector; is that pin-out and spec available?

Larry


On 4/15/2017 5:05 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
>> I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently on eBay but have not yet
>> received it.
>>
>> Is that special D-Submin connector a receptacle-shell, pin contact
>> version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket contact 25-pin D-Submin fit it?
>
> Hi,
>
> I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful comments.
>
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A oscillators that I've seen and 
> tested look like this:
>
> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
>
> And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 connector on the PCB. 
> For connections, see that page, or any number of postings about the E1938 in 
> the time-nuts archives.
>
> Note that on eBay there are at least three variations of E1938A oscillator. 
> The item#'s below are just random search picks (I have no affiliation with 
> any buyers or sellers) and I also know not all surplus refurbished surplus 
> recycled surplus stuff works. But we do this because when they did work, they 
> are sometimes totally amazing.
>
> 1) There's the bare "puck" alone, as in http://www.ebay.com/itm/290829077542 
> -- and I have no idea where one would start with that item since all the 
> support circuitry on the PCB would have to be re-created by hand.
>
> 2) There's the integrated PCB assembly, as in 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181043193416 -- which is more like what I tested.
>
> 3) There's the full instrument version, as in 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171293069062 -- which is most likely to work, or be 
> less hacked up, or dented, or salvaged, or rusted. It even has all the 
> connectors and power supplies, and GPS, etc.
>
> If any other time nuts have experience with each of these methods to obtain a 
> E1938 oscillator, please let us know.


--
Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Bruce Griffiths]

More precisely the active EFC range is +1.25 to +3.75V with an absolute minimum 
of 0V and an absolute max of +5V.

At least this is the range that the pseudo differential AD7714 ADC inputs 
monitoring the EFC are configured for.

Bruce

> On 16 April 2017 at 14:57 Bruce Griffiths  wrote:
> 
> 
> 0 to +5V dc max, however only the 0 to 2.5V range appears measurable by 
> the AD7714 ADC on the PCB.
> 
> Increasing the EFC voltage decreases the capacitance in series with the 
> crystal requiring an increase in the inductance exhibited by the crystal 
> hence requiring a lower oscillator frequency.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> > > 
> > On 16 April 2017 at 13:01 Larry McDavid  wrote:
> > 
> > The units now available on eBay have various types of D-Subminiature
> > connectors and can be on either side of the board. I will have to 
> > wait
> > until my unit arrives to see what I get. It should be possible, if
> > necessary, to remove the connector and replace it with a more 
> > convenient
> > D-Submin connector on the desired side of the board.
> > 
> > I did not originally note the additional zip'd info available from 
> > that
> > eBay website but now have those files. Thanks for that link.
> > 
> > So far, I have not seen any spec for the EFC voltage and polarities 
> > used
> > in the "Integrated PWB." Anyone know that?
> > 
> > The "full instrument" version also available now on eBay is a 
> > complete
> > GPSDO but at $130 plus $80 shipping. I really don't need yet another
> > GPSDO but would use the integrated PWB assembly for a low ADEV
> > free-running 10 MHz source. I have a HP 10811D for that now but will
> > evaluate this new unit for performance.
> > 
> > Anyone have experience doing this and know the EFC requirements?
> > 
> > Larry
> > 
> > On 4/15/2017 4:01 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> > 
> > > > > 
> > > It's been 20 years, but I will try to recap what I remember
> > > about this connector. I believe there were 3 customers,
> > > and one of them required the DB connector with coax inserts
> > > for reasons of backward compatibility. I think this
> > > vendor was Motorola. We did not actually use the coax
> > > inserts, but left them blank and ran the RF, etc on
> > > ordinary pins. I believe you can make an ordinary male
> > > DB-25 mate with these insert versions by clipping off some
> > > of the pins that would be blocked by the female insert
> > > version. I vaguely remember that the other 2 vendors
> > > used gender changers or something. There might have
> > > an issue with the mating plane location being different
> > > for different customers.
> > > 
> > > I am sure that time-nuts, being talented at repurposing,
> > > will be able to think about this problem and come up with
> > > a simple solution to interfacing with these boards.
> > > No need to buy insert type connectors. I never had
> > > any trouble making cables that connected to these units
> > > using plain vanilla DB25's.
> > > 
> > > Rick N6RK
> > > 
> > > On 4/15/2017 10:42 AM, Larry McDavid wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > Ok, so a standard DB 25-pin socket-contact connector 
> > > > will mate with the
> > > > on-board connector with the center hole and missing 
> > > > pins. That's good!
> > > > 
> > > > I now notice a comment on your webpages about this 
> > > > device in which you
> > > > mention a schematic. Do you have a schematic of this 
> > > > board? If so, can
> > > > you point to it or send me a copy.
> > > > 
> > > > I was unaware of the complete packaged unit on eBay; 
> > > > thanks for that.
> > > > 
> > > > Another poster mentioned the wiring of the connector on 
> > > > the full
> > > > instrument version power connector; is that pin-out and 
> > > > spec available?
> > > > 
> > > > Larry
> > > > 
> > > > On 4/15/2017 5:05 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO 
> > > > > > recently on eBay but have not
> > > > > > yet
> > > > > > received it.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Is that special D-Submin connector a 
> > > > > > receptacle-shell, pin contact
> > > > > > version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket 
> > > > > > 

Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Bruce Griffiths]

0 to +5V dc max, however only the 0 to 2.5V range appears measurable by the 
AD7714 ADC on the PCB.

Increasing the EFC voltage decreases the capacitance in series with the crystal 
requiring an increase in the inductance exhibited by the crystal hence 
requiring a lower oscillator frequency.

Bruce

> 
> On 16 April 2017 at 13:01 Larry McDavid  wrote:
> 
> The units now available on eBay have various types of D-Subminiature
> connectors and can be on either side of the board. I will have to wait
> until my unit arrives to see what I get. It should be possible, if
> necessary, to remove the connector and replace it with a more convenient
> D-Submin connector on the desired side of the board.
> 
> I did not originally note the additional zip'd info available from that
> eBay website but now have those files. Thanks for that link.
> 
> So far, I have not seen any spec for the EFC voltage and polarities used
> in the "Integrated PWB." Anyone know that?
> 
> The "full instrument" version also available now on eBay is a complete
> GPSDO but at $130 plus $80 shipping. I really don't need yet another
> GPSDO but would use the integrated PWB assembly for a low ADEV
> free-running 10 MHz source. I have a HP 10811D for that now but will
> evaluate this new unit for performance.
> 
> Anyone have experience doing this and know the EFC requirements?
> 
> Larry
> 
> On 4/15/2017 4:01 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > It's been 20 years, but I will try to recap what I remember
> > about this connector. I believe there were 3 customers,
> > and one of them required the DB connector with coax inserts
> > for reasons of backward compatibility. I think this
> > vendor was Motorola. We did not actually use the coax
> > inserts, but left them blank and ran the RF, etc on
> > ordinary pins. I believe you can make an ordinary male
> > DB-25 mate with these insert versions by clipping off some
> > of the pins that would be blocked by the female insert
> > version. I vaguely remember that the other 2 vendors
> > used gender changers or something. There might have
> > an issue with the mating plane location being different
> > for different customers.
> > 
> > I am sure that time-nuts, being talented at repurposing,
> > will be able to think about this problem and come up with
> > a simple solution to interfacing with these boards.
> > No need to buy insert type connectors. I never had
> > any trouble making cables that connected to these units
> > using plain vanilla DB25's.
> > 
> > Rick N6RK
> > 
> > On 4/15/2017 10:42 AM, Larry McDavid wrote:
> > 
> > > > > 
> > > Ok, so a standard DB 25-pin socket-contact connector will 
> > > mate with the
> > > on-board connector with the center hole and missing pins. 
> > > That's good!
> > > 
> > > I now notice a comment on your webpages about this device in 
> > > which you
> > > mention a schematic. Do you have a schematic of this board? 
> > > If so, can
> > > you point to it or send me a copy.
> > > 
> > > I was unaware of the complete packaged unit on eBay; thanks 
> > > for that.
> > > 
> > > Another poster mentioned the wiring of the connector on the 
> > > full
> > > instrument version power connector; is that pin-out and spec 
> > > available?
> > > 
> > > Larry
> > > 
> > > On 4/15/2017 5:05 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently 
> > > > > on eBay but have not
> > > > > yet
> > > > > received it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is that special D-Submin connector a 
> > > > > receptacle-shell, pin contact
> > > > > version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket 
> > > > > contact 25-pin D-Submin
> > > > > fit it?
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful 
> > > > comments.
> > > > 
> > > > I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A 
> > > > oscillators that I've
> > > > seen and tested look like this:
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
> > > > 
> > > > And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 
> > > > connector on the
> > > > PCB. For connections, see that page, or any number of 
> > > > postings about
> > > > the E1938 in the time-nuts archives.
> > > > 
> > > > Note that on eBay 

Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Larry McDavid]

The units now available on eBay have various types of D-Subminiature 
connectors and can be on either side of the board. I will have to wait 
until my unit arrives to see what I get. It should be possible, if 
necessary, to remove the connector and replace it with a more convenient 
D-Submin connector on the desired side of the board.


I did not originally note the additional zip'd info available from that 
eBay website but now have those files. Thanks for that link.


So far, I have not seen any spec for the EFC voltage and polarities used 
in the "Integrated PWB." Anyone know that?


The "full instrument" version also available now on eBay is a complete 
GPSDO but at $130 plus $80 shipping. I really don't need yet another 
GPSDO but would use the integrated PWB assembly for a low ADEV 
free-running 10 MHz source. I have a HP 10811D for that now but will 
evaluate this new unit for performance.


Anyone have experience doing this and know the EFC requirements?

Larry


On 4/15/2017 4:01 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

It's been 20 years, but I will try to recap what I remember
about this connector.  I believe there were 3 customers,
and one of them required the DB connector with coax inserts
for reasons of backward compatibility.  I think this
vendor was Motorola.  We did not actually use the coax
inserts, but left them blank and ran the RF, etc on
ordinary pins.  I believe you can make an ordinary male
DB-25 mate with these insert versions by clipping off some
of the pins that would be blocked by the female insert
version.  I vaguely remember that the other 2 vendors
used gender changers or something.  There might have
an issue with the mating plane location being different
for different customers.

I am sure that time-nuts, being talented at repurposing,
will be able to think about this problem and come up with
a simple solution to interfacing with these boards.
No need to buy insert type connectors.  I never had
any trouble making cables that connected to these units
using plain vanilla DB25's.

Rick N6RK

On 4/15/2017 10:42 AM, Larry McDavid wrote:

Ok, so a standard DB 25-pin socket-contact connector will mate with the
on-board connector with the center hole and missing pins. That's good!

I now notice a comment on your webpages about this device in which you
mention a schematic. Do you have a schematic of this board? If so, can
you point to it or send me a copy.

I was unaware of the complete packaged unit on eBay; thanks for that.

Another poster mentioned the wiring of the connector on the full
instrument version power connector; is that pin-out and spec available?

Larry


On 4/15/2017 5:05 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently on eBay but have not
yet
received it.

Is that special D-Submin connector a receptacle-shell, pin contact
version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket contact 25-pin D-Submin
fit it?


Hi,

I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful comments.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A oscillators that I've
seen and tested look like this:

http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/

And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 connector on the
PCB. For connections, see that page, or any number of postings about
the E1938 in the time-nuts archives.

Note that on eBay there are at least three variations of E1938A
oscillator. The item#'s below are just random search picks (I have no
affiliation with any buyers or sellers) and I also know not all
surplus refurbished surplus recycled surplus stuff works. But we do
this because when they did work, they are sometimes totally amazing.

1) There's the bare "puck" alone, as in
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290829077542 -- and I have no idea where one
would start with that item since all the support circuitry on the PCB
would have to be re-created by hand.

2) There's the integrated PCB assembly, as in
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181043193416 -- which is more like what I
tested.

3) There's the full instrument version, as in
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171293069062 -- which is most likely to work,
or be less hacked up, or dented, or salvaged, or rusted. It even has
all the connectors and power supplies, and GPS, etc.

If any other time nuts have experience with each of these methods to
obtain a E1938 oscillator, please let us know.




___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.




--
Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

It's been 20 years, but I will try to recap what I remember
about this connector.  I believe there were 3 customers,
and one of them required the DB connector with coax inserts
for reasons of backward compatibility.  I think this
vendor was Motorola.  We did not actually use the coax
inserts, but left them blank and ran the RF, etc on
ordinary pins.  I believe you can make an ordinary male
DB-25 mate with these insert versions by clipping off some
of the pins that would be blocked by the female insert
version.  I vaguely remember that the other 2 vendors
used gender changers or something.  There might have
an issue with the mating plane location being different
for different customers.

I am sure that time-nuts, being talented at repurposing,
will be able to think about this problem and come up with
a simple solution to interfacing with these boards.
No need to buy insert type connectors.  I never had
any trouble making cables that connected to these units
using plain vanilla DB25's.

Rick N6RK

On 4/15/2017 10:42 AM, Larry McDavid wrote:

Ok, so a standard DB 25-pin socket-contact connector will mate with the
on-board connector with the center hole and missing pins. That's good!

I now notice a comment on your webpages about this device in which you
mention a schematic. Do you have a schematic of this board? If so, can
you point to it or send me a copy.

I was unaware of the complete packaged unit on eBay; thanks for that.

Another poster mentioned the wiring of the connector on the full
instrument version power connector; is that pin-out and spec available?

Larry


On 4/15/2017 5:05 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently on eBay but have not yet
received it.

Is that special D-Submin connector a receptacle-shell, pin contact
version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket contact 25-pin D-Submin
fit it?


Hi,

I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful comments.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A oscillators that I've
seen and tested look like this:

http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/

And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 connector on the
PCB. For connections, see that page, or any number of postings about
the E1938 in the time-nuts archives.

Note that on eBay there are at least three variations of E1938A
oscillator. The item#'s below are just random search picks (I have no
affiliation with any buyers or sellers) and I also know not all
surplus refurbished surplus recycled surplus stuff works. But we do
this because when they did work, they are sometimes totally amazing.

1) There's the bare "puck" alone, as in
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290829077542 -- and I have no idea where one
would start with that item since all the support circuitry on the PCB
would have to be re-created by hand.

2) There's the integrated PCB assembly, as in
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181043193416 -- which is more like what I tested.

3) There's the full instrument version, as in
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171293069062 -- which is most likely to work,
or be less hacked up, or dented, or salvaged, or rusted. It even has
all the connectors and power supplies, and GPS, etc.

If any other time nuts have experience with each of these methods to
obtain a E1938 oscillator, please let us know.




___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Orin Eman]

Re: schematic.

There's a link on the second ebay auction page:

http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/E1938pdfdocs.zip

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Larry McDavid  wrote:

> Ok, so a standard DB 25-pin socket-contact connector will mate with the
> on-board connector with the center hole and missing pins. That's good!
>
> I now notice a comment on your webpages about this device in which you
> mention a schematic. Do you have a schematic of this board? If so, can you
> point to it or send me a copy.
>
> I was unaware of the complete packaged unit on eBay; thanks for that.
>
> Another poster mentioned the wiring of the connector on the full
> instrument version power connector; is that pin-out and spec available?
>
> Larry
>
>
> On 4/15/2017 5:05 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
>
>> I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently on eBay but have not yet
>>> received it.
>>>
>>> Is that special D-Submin connector a receptacle-shell, pin contact
>>> version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket contact 25-pin D-Submin fit
>>> it?
>>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful comments.
>>
>> I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A oscillators that I've seen
>> and tested look like this:
>>
>> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
>>
>> And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 connector on the
>> PCB. For connections, see that page, or any number of postings about the
>> E1938 in the time-nuts archives.
>>
>> Note that on eBay there are at least three variations of E1938A
>> oscillator. The item#'s below are just random search picks (I have no
>> affiliation with any buyers or sellers) and I also know not all surplus
>> refurbished surplus recycled surplus stuff works. But we do this because
>> when they did work, they are sometimes totally amazing.
>>
>> 1) There's the bare "puck" alone, as in http://www.ebay.com/itm/290829
>> 077542 -- and I have no idea where one would start with that item since
>> all the support circuitry on the PCB would have to be re-created by hand.
>>
>> 2) There's the integrated PCB assembly, as in
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181043193416 -- which is more like what I tested.
>>
>> 3) There's the full instrument version, as in
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171293069062 -- which is most likely to work, or
>> be less hacked up, or dented, or salvaged, or rusted. It even has all the
>> connectors and power supplies, and GPS, etc.
>>
>> If any other time nuts have experience with each of these methods to
>> obtain a E1938 oscillator, please let us know.
>>
>
>
> --
> Best wishes,
>
> Larry McDavid W6FUB
> Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Larry McDavid]

Ok, so a standard DB 25-pin socket-contact connector will mate with the 
on-board connector with the center hole and missing pins. That's good!


I now notice a comment on your webpages about this device in which you 
mention a schematic. Do you have a schematic of this board? If so, can 
you point to it or send me a copy.


I was unaware of the complete packaged unit on eBay; thanks for that.

Another poster mentioned the wiring of the connector on the full 
instrument version power connector; is that pin-out and spec available?


Larry


On 4/15/2017 5:05 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently on eBay but have not yet
received it.

Is that special D-Submin connector a receptacle-shell, pin contact
version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket contact 25-pin D-Submin fit it?


Hi,

I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful comments.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A oscillators that I've seen and 
tested look like this:

http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/

And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 connector on the PCB. For 
connections, see that page, or any number of postings about the E1938 in the 
time-nuts archives.

Note that on eBay there are at least three variations of E1938A oscillator. The 
item#'s below are just random search picks (I have no affiliation with any 
buyers or sellers) and I also know not all surplus refurbished surplus recycled 
surplus stuff works. But we do this because when they did work, they are 
sometimes totally amazing.

1) There's the bare "puck" alone, as in http://www.ebay.com/itm/290829077542 -- 
and I have no idea where one would start with that item since all the support circuitry 
on the PCB would have to be re-created by hand.

2) There's the integrated PCB assembly, as in 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181043193416 -- which is more like what I tested.

3) There's the full instrument version, as in 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171293069062 -- which is most likely to work, or be 
less hacked up, or dented, or salvaged, or rusted. It even has all the 
connectors and power supplies, and GPS, etc.

If any other time nuts have experience with each of these methods to obtain a 
E1938 oscillator, please let us know.



--
Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Bruce Griffiths]

Tom

#1 proved useful when this sub assembly failed (no 10MHz output) in my E1938A.

Someday I'll disassemble it to see what exactly failed. 

Also have #3 which works well when one figures out the connections on the PCB 
and the unusual backplane connector.


Bruce

> 
> On 16 April 2017 at 00:05 Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently on eBay but have 
> > not yet
> > received it.
> > 
> > Is that special D-Submin connector a receptacle-shell, pin contact
> > version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket contact 25-pin D-Submin 
> > fit it?
> > 
> > > 
> Hi,
> 
> I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful comments.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A oscillators that I've seen 
> and tested look like this:
> 
> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
> 
> And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 connector on the 
> PCB. For connections, see that page, or any number of postings about the 
> E1938 in the time-nuts archives.
> 
> Note that on eBay there are at least three variations of E1938A 
> oscillator. The item#'s below are just random search picks (I have no 
> affiliation with any buyers or sellers) and I also know not all surplus 
> refurbished surplus recycled surplus stuff works. But we do this because when 
> they did work, they are sometimes totally amazing.
> 
> 1) There's the bare "puck" alone, as in 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/290829077542 -- and I have no idea where one would 
> start with that item since all the support circuitry on the PCB would have to 
> be re-created by hand.
> 
> 2) There's the integrated PCB assembly, as in 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181043193416 -- which is more like what I tested.
> 
> 3) There's the full instrument version, as in 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171293069062 -- which is most likely to work, or be 
> less hacked up, or dented, or salvaged, or rusted. It even has all the 
> connectors and power supplies, and GPS, etc.
> 
> If any other time nuts have experience with each of these methods to 
> obtain a E1938 oscillator, please let us know.
> 
> Thanks,
> /tvb
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938

[Tom Van Baak]

> I purchased one of these HP E1938 OCXO recently on eBay but have not yet 
> received it.
> 
> Is that special D-Submin connector a receptacle-shell, pin contact 
> version? Will a standard plug-shell, socket contact 25-pin D-Submin fit it?

Hi,

I'll cc the group here since we may get some useful comments.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The E1938A oscillators that I've seen and 
tested look like this:

http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/

And those can be interfaced with a simple D-sub DB25 connector on the PCB. For 
connections, see that page, or any number of postings about the E1938 in the 
time-nuts archives.

Note that on eBay there are at least three variations of E1938A oscillator. The 
item#'s below are just random search picks (I have no affiliation with any 
buyers or sellers) and I also know not all surplus refurbished surplus recycled 
surplus stuff works. But we do this because when they did work, they are 
sometimes totally amazing.

1) There's the bare "puck" alone, as in http://www.ebay.com/itm/290829077542 -- 
and I have no idea where one would start with that item since all the support 
circuitry on the PCB would have to be re-created by hand.

2) There's the integrated PCB assembly, as in 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181043193416 -- which is more like what I tested.

3) There's the full instrument version, as in 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171293069062 -- which is most likely to work, or be 
less hacked up, or dented, or salvaged, or rusted. It even has all the 
connectors and power supplies, and GPS, etc.

If any other time nuts have experience with each of these methods to obtain a 
E1938 oscillator, please let us know.

Thanks,
/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[John Miles]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Thanks for the plug. :)  I should point out that 7470.EXE was never meant to
draw diagrams like this, so the colors and overall line quality are not all
they could be.  Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL emailed me with a nice grayscale
rendering of one of the diagrams, although I never did catch what program he
used to generate it.  It looked quite a bit better than the 7470.EXE output,
at any rate.  If we can get a set of better renderings, I'll make sure they
find their way to Brooke.

-- john, KE5FX



 Hi:

 Thanks to John Miles and his HP 7470 plotter program I have .gif
 versions of
 the five E1938 drawings that were in .hpg vector format that can
 be viewed.
 These are packed into a single file E1938gifs.zip downloadable from:
 http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml

 The schematics for both the board and oscillator are there along
 with a block
 diagram of the oscillator.

 John has a number of freeware programs in his HP-IB Tool kit including
 Automated phase-noise measurement utility for the Tektronix and
 HP spectrum
 analyzers along with links to related app notes, etc.

 http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/gpib/readme.htm - tool kit
 http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/gpib/pn.htm - Phase Noise Overview

 Have Fun,

 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.precisionclock.com




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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 documents

[Jeffrey Pawlan]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

When Brooke put up the very first single page of the E1938 hpgl file I converted
this to a BW 2400dpi PDF and sent that to Brooke. He did not send me any of the
other pages nor did he make them available. So I waited until John received
them and converted them to GIF graphics. They were nearly unreadable here so I
asked John for all of the HPGL files. I converted all of them using an older
program that I use for my CAD/CAM work. It is CAM350 version 7. Its main
function is to check and edit Gerber plots in great detail. I remember
paying around $1K extra for the optional HPGL and DXF conversion capabilities.

I have sent a zip archive containing all of the high resolution PDF files to
John who will then put it up on his website. I am not including the PDFs that
Rick very kindly provided as these are already on Brooke's website.

Regards,


Jeffrey Pawlan  WA6KBL
Pawlan Communications


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 documents

[Brooke Clarke]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Hi Jeffrey:

I've posted the jpg versions and taken down the gifs.
http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
You may need to CTRLRefresh to see E1938pdfdocs.zip

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com



Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:
 When Brooke put up the very first single page of the E1938 hpgl file I 
 converted
 this to a BW 2400dpi PDF and sent that to Brooke. He did not send me any of 
 the
 other pages nor did he make them available. So I waited until John received
 them and converted them to GIF graphics. They were nearly unreadable here so I
 asked John for all of the HPGL files. I converted all of them using an older
 program that I use for my CAD/CAM work. It is CAM350 version 7. Its main
 function is to check and edit Gerber plots in great detail. I remember
 paying around $1K extra for the optional HPGL and DXF conversion capabilities.
 
 I have sent a zip archive containing all of the high resolution PDF files to
 John who will then put it up on his website. I am not including the PDFs that
 Rick very kindly provided as these are already on Brooke's website.
 
 Regards,
 
 
 Jeffrey Pawlan  WA6KBL
 Pawlan Communications
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 documents

[Bruce Griffiths]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:
 When Brooke put up the very first single page of the E1938 hpgl file I 
 converted
 this to a BW 2400dpi PDF and sent that to Brooke. He did not send me any of 
 the
 other pages nor did he make them available. So I waited until John received
 them and converted them to GIF graphics. They were nearly unreadable here so I
 asked John for all of the HPGL files. I converted all of them using an older
 program that I use for my CAD/CAM work. It is CAM350 version 7. Its main
 function is to check and edit Gerber plots in great detail. I remember
 paying around $1K extra for the optional HPGL and DXF conversion capabilities.

 I have sent a zip archive containing all of the high resolution PDF files to
 John who will then put it up on his website. I am not including the PDFs that
 Rick very kindly provided as these are already on Brooke's website.

 Regards,


 Jeffrey Pawlan  WA6KBL
 Pawlan Communications
   
Jeffrey

Strange, I had no trouble viewing the GIF files with a KDE application
(aside from the inductors).
However I havent tried using a Windows application.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 documents

[Bruce Griffiths]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Bruce Griffiths wrote:
 Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:
   
 When Brooke put up the very first single page of the E1938 hpgl file I 
 converted
 this to a BW 2400dpi PDF and sent that to Brooke. He did not send me any of 
 the
 other pages nor did he make them available. So I waited until John received
 them and converted them to GIF graphics. They were nearly unreadable here so 
 I
 asked John for all of the HPGL files. I converted all of them using an older
 program that I use for my CAD/CAM work. It is CAM350 version 7. Its main
 function is to check and edit Gerber plots in great detail. I remember
 paying around $1K extra for the optional HPGL and DXF conversion 
 capabilities.

 I have sent a zip archive containing all of the high resolution PDF files to
 John who will then put it up on his website. I am not including the PDFs that
 Rick very kindly provided as these are already on Brooke's website.

 Regards,


 Jeffrey Pawlan  WA6KBL
 Pawlan Communications
   
 
 Jeffrey

 Strange, I had no trouble viewing the GIF files with a KDE application
 (aside from the inductors).
 However I havent tried using a Windows application.

 Bruce

   
More specifically no text is lost if one displays the GIF files at 4K x
2K pixels or so.
Any good GIF viewer should be capable of this.
I merely used the default KDE application Kuickshow.
Only the inductor symbols in the oscillator schematic display as a line
of dots.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Brooke Clarke]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Hi:

Thanks to John Miles and his HP 7470 plotter program I have .gif versions of 
the five E1938 drawings that were in .hpg vector format that can be viewed. 
These are packed into a single file E1938gifs.zip downloadable from:
http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml

The schematics for both the board and oscillator are there along with a block 
diagram of the oscillator.

John has a number of freeware programs in his HP-IB Tool kit including
Automated phase-noise measurement utility for the Tektronix and HP spectrum 
analyzers along with links to related app notes, etc.

http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/gpib/readme.htm - tool kit
http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/gpib/pn.htm - Phase Noise Overview

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[SAIDJACK]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

 
In a message dated 8/28/2007 22:23:57 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


The fault was using a whacky fringe program on a fringe  operating system 
and not the
vector file.  Do the same thing with  a mainline publishing package like 
PageMaker,
InDesign, Quark or even,  God forbid, Microsoft turd and see how it comes 
out.   I've
contract-published uncountable documents that used vector graphics  without 
a burp.



Hi John,
 
didn't know Framemaker on Linux was a fringe program on a fringe OS. I'm  
sure there are some people that would disagree.
 
Anyways, it wouldn't be hard to post BOTH the original vector  files for the 
folks that want to make E1938A's in 20 years AND PDF files  the rest of us can 
open and read sensibly without having to get out GCC and  compile something.
 
I don't think the entire Gerbers will be made available for  post anyways. 
Now the Gerber format itself is another entire discussion  thread...
 
bye,
Said
 
 
 
 



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Rob Kimberley]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Adobe Acrobat will convert most file types..

PNG still widely used.

:-)

Rob K 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 28 August 2007 22:37
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

In a message dated 8/28/2007 13:41:24 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:


Here's a link to the resulting png from hpgs
_ftp://ftp.sonic.net/pub/users/rexa/E1938A/E1938_asdrawb.png_
(ftp://ftp.sonic.net/pub/users/rexa/E1938A/E1938_asdrawb.png)
Anybody here that can generate PDF's with 300 or more DPI?
 
PS, HPGL, PNG, all not standard anymore as this long thread is showing...  
JPG, PDF, HTML is the name of the game these days :)
 
I can generate PDF's from PS files, if that helps. I can also render PDF's
into raster-files if needed.
 
Thanks,
bye,
Said



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Magnus Danielson]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:42:58 EDT
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 In a message dated 8/28/2007 18:29:41 Pacific Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  have you opened a PNG lately in internet explorer? What a headache.
 Looks 
  totally crappy, cannot zoom, cannot rotate etc. Not a format that's
 mainstream 
  yet such as JPG.

 Why would I be using Internet Explorer?
 
 Hi Magnus,
  
 It's a religious question, so there is no answer to it - just endless
 discussion.
  
 But one reason would be: so we don't have to have these types of
 incompatibility discussions :)

Oh, but that don't fly well since I run Linux. :)

Still, the PNG support issue has *NOTHING* with the format as such, just how
you perceive it in your environment. This does not match my experince and
several of my friends. My point was really that you need to complain on the
right detail. That it does not work well in IE is indeed a valid complaint, but
then I would naturally point out that you can use other things than IE to
remedy that problem. PNG is not an old format, it is new and fresh even if it
does not have the cool algorithms as other even newer formats have.

Cheers,
Magnus

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[time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Brooke Clarke]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Hi:

I'm working on a web page for the E1938 and have received a bunch of files from 
Rick.  One of them is a .HPG of a schematic.  I've tried to use IrfanView, but 
it's a program I normally don't use and all the images are way too coarse to be 
useable.  Is there a way to convert it to something that can be read?

http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
-- 
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Didier Juges]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Brooke,

Why don't you install PDF Creator? It's a free printer driver that creates pdf 
files, so any program that can print can create PDF's. You can set the page 
size to what you want, so I use 11x17 for schematics.

Google: PDF Creator

Didier KO4BB

 Brooke Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 Hi:
 
 I'm working on a web page for the E1938 and have received a bunch of files 
 from 
 Rick.  One of them is a .HPG of a schematic.  I've tried to use IrfanView, 
 but 
 it's a program I normally don't use and all the images are way too coarse to 
 be 
 useable.  Is there a way to convert it to something that can be read?
 
 http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
 -- 
 Have Fun,
 
 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.precisionclock.com
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Didier Juges]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Brooke,

Re: my last post, I am not sure I read your mail correctly. PDF Creator is 
useful when you have a program that can open the document, I do not know what 
program is normally used to open .HPG files...

Didier KO4BB

 Brooke Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 Hi:
 
 I'm working on a web page for the E1938 and have received a bunch of files 
 from 
 Rick.  One of them is a .HPG of a schematic.  I've tried to use IrfanView, 
 but 
 it's a program I normally don't use and all the images are way too coarse to 
 be 
 useable.  Is there a way to convert it to something that can be read?
 
 http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
 -- 
 Have Fun,
 
 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.precisionclock.com
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Arnold Tibus]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:18:55 -0700, Brooke Clarke wrote:

Hi:

I'm working on a web page for the E1938 and have received a bunch of files 
from 
Rick.  One of them is a .HPG of a schematic.  I've tried to use IrfanView, but 
it's a program I normally don't use and all the images are way too coarse to 
be 
useable.  Is there a way to convert it to something that can be read?

Hello Brooke,
Irfanview is in fact very powerful, but as can see in V4.0, it is  n o t  
capable to 
read HPGL-files - so it is not capable to convert into another format. 
I know only Autocad able to read .hpg, but that does not look very comfortable. 

If you have a way to print-out these plot pictures (I suppose they are) so one 
could make a sharp hi-q picture with a modern 6 Mp camera and use the 
jpg pictures in your page, is that a possibility for you?

regards,
Arnold



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Brooke Clarke]

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Hi Scott:

I have uploaded the smallest one E1938_asdrawb.hpg at:
http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/E1938_asdrawb.hpg
it's also linked on the E1938 web page under Theory of Operation.

I have Autocad 14, but it did not want to load a .hpg file.  Maybe I need a 
plug-in?  Autocad can drive an HP pen plotter to create .hpg files, but don't 
know about loading them.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com



Scott Newell wrote:
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 At 12:18 PM 8/28/2007 , Brooke Clarke wrote:
 
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Hi:

I'm working on a web page for the E1938 and have received a bunch of files
 
 from 
 
Rick.  One of them is a .HPG of a schematic.  I've tried to use IrfanView,
 
 but 
 
it's a program I normally don't use and all the images are way too coarse
 
 to be 
 
useable.  Is there a way to convert it to something that can be read?
 
 
 Do you have a link to the .hpg file in question on the site?  (I'm thinking
 HPGL.)
 
 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Brooke Clarke]

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Hi Scott:

Yes.  Can it be read?  How did you do it?

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com



Scott Newell wrote:
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 At 01:51 PM 8/28/2007 , Brooke Clarke wrote:
 
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Hi Scott:

I have uploaded the smallest one E1938_asdrawb.hpg at:
http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/E1938_asdrawb.hpg
 
 
 Yep, HPGL.
 
 Want a pdf?
 
 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Scott Newell]

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At 02:35 PM 8/28/2007 , Rex wrote:

What are you using to convert the file?

Corel Draw.  I didn't receive any errors, but I don't know that the
conversion is accurate.

HPGL is pretty simple--I'll bet it wouldn't be much work to write a
quick-n-dirty HPGL to PS converter.

-- 
newell  N5TNL


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[John Miles]

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My plotter emulator (7470.EXE) will actually render the file, but not at a
high-enough resolution to read the text.  Plus, it was stored in portrait
mode for some reason, which is a problem for both 7470.EXE and the other
HP-GL viewer I have on this machine (the free GC-Prevue Gerber viewer).

So if someone can rotate it and render it to a .PDF at a decent resolution,
that'd be helpful...

-- john, KE5FX

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Arnold Tibus
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:13 AM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page


 On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:18:55 -0700, Brooke Clarke wrote:

 Hi:

 I'm working on a web page for the E1938 and have received a
 bunch of files from
 Rick.  One of them is a .HPG of a schematic.  I've tried to use
 IrfanView, but
 it's a program I normally don't use and all the images are way
 too coarse to be
 useable.  Is there a way to convert it to something that can be read?

 Hello Brooke,
 Irfanview is in fact very powerful, but as can see in V4.0, it is
  n o t  capable to
 read HPGL-files - so it is not capable to convert into another format.
 I know only Autocad able to read .hpg, but that does not look
 very comfortable.

 If you have a way to print-out these plot pictures (I suppose
 they are) so one
 could make a sharp hi-q picture with a modern 6 Mp camera and use the
 jpg pictures in your page, is that a possibility for you?

 regards,
 Arnold



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Christopher Hoover]

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Brooke Clarke wrote:
 I'm working on a web page for the E1938 and have received a bunch of
 files from
 Rick.  One of them is a .HPG of a schematic.  I've tried to use
 IrfanView, but
 it's a program I normally don't use and all the images are way too
 coarse to be
 useable.  Is there a way to convert it to something that can be read?

HPG is hpgl.  It is a vector format.

The best idea would be to convert them to the free web standard vector
format SVG and the second best idea would to pdf.  Any raster format should
be avoided.

As far as conversion, hp2xx can do it.  If you've got a Debian Linux box,
just apt-get install hp2xx to install it.

See http://www.murgatroid.com/tmp/E1938_asdrawb/ for the results.  The
Makefile shows how I invoked the commands.

The pen settings could be tweak a bit, probably.

(I'd be happy to do it for you.)

-ch





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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Rex]

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On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:35:19 -0700, Rex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I used this free program:
http://hpgs.berlios.de/
and got it to create a png file, but I had to edit the hpgl and remove a
few commands that the program (and my available documentation) didn't
recognize.

-Rex


After Steve's reply I reinstalled an old version of Corel Draw that I
had. The image in Corel seems the same as the png from the free program.

Here's a link to the resulting png from hpgs
ftp://ftp.sonic.net/pub/users/rexa/E1938A/E1938_asdrawb.png

Corel opened the hpg ok, but needed some work to get it on the page
size. As I mentioned, I did have to remove a little bit of the hpg file
to get it to work with the hpgs program.

Here are the first few lines of the hpg file

IN;
PW .1875,1;PW .1875,2;PW .1875,3;
PW .1875,4;PW .1875,5;
PW .375,6;PW .1875,7;PW .1875,8;
[EMAIL PROTECTED];
2:.J.K.I90;
0;
17:.N50;
19:INIP-21184,-16612,21184,16612SC-5296,5296,-4153,4153IW-5296,-4153,364,4114SP1PA-684,1258PD;
...


I changed that to

IN;
PW .1875,1;PW .1875,2;PW .1875,3;
PW .1875,4;PW .1875,5;
PW .375,6;PW .1875,7;PW .1875,8;
INIP-21184,-16612,21184,16612SC-5296,5296,-4153,4153IW-5296,-4153,364,4114SP1PA-684,1258PD;
...


since the program and I both didn't know what the extra lines meant. I
cut them out in a text edtitor and saved the file for input to the hpgs
program. Then it worked ok. I had renamed this new file to test2.hpg and
then I used this command line for the program (in a DOS box)
hpgs -d png_rgp -o test2.png test2.hpg

The png version seems a bit more useful to me than pdf, as many graphics
programs will open the png and allow editing. Fewer programs are
available to manipulate pdf's.

The png is viewable and printable in Irfanview, but looks a little
better when I open it in Ulead Photoimpact, that I had here.

Hope that helps.

-Rex





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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Brooke Clarke]

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Hi:

Scott will convert the files and I'll post them when they arrive.
I've also added a Windows control program to the page.
You may need to force a reload to see the new items.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com


Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:
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HPGL is pretty simple--I'll bet it wouldn't be much work to write a
quick-n-dirty HPGL to PS converter.

 
 
 I had one on my old DOS 5 computer. I may look for it later.
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Rex]

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On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:01:12 -0700, Brooke Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Hi:

Scott will convert the files and I'll post them when they arrive.
I've also added a Windows control program to the page.
You may need to force a reload to see the new items.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com

Will you make the original hpg files available too? PDF isn't my
favorite.

-Rex


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[WB6BNQ]

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Hi brooke,

The Windows control program link did not work.  Can you explain, a little bit,
about  the program on your web page, besides here.

thanks

73BillWB6BNQ

Brooke Clarke wrote:

 Hi:

 Scott will convert the files and I'll post them when they arrive.
 I've also added a Windows control program to the page.
 You may need to force a reload to see the new items.

 Have Fun,

 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.precisionclock.com

 Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:
  ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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 HPGL is pretty simple--I'll bet it wouldn't be much work to write a
 quick-n-dirty HPGL to PS converter.
 
 
 
  I had one on my old DOS 5 computer. I may look for it later.
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[John Miles]

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Also looks like the link to the third paper of Rick's is broken.

-- john, KE5FX

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of WB6BNQ
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:13 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page


 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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 Hi brooke,

 The Windows control program link did not work.  Can you explain,
 a little bit,
 about  the program on your web page, besides here.

 thanks

 73BillWB6BNQ

 Brooke Clarke wrote:

  Hi:
 
  Scott will convert the files and I'll post them when they arrive.
  I've also added a Windows control program to the page.
  You may need to force a reload to see the new items.
 
  Have Fun,
 
  Brooke Clarke
  http://www.PRC68.com
  http://www.precisionclock.com
 
  Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:
   ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
   Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
  
  
  HPGL is pretty simple--I'll bet it wouldn't be much work to write a
  quick-n-dirty HPGL to PS converter.
  
  
  
   I had one on my old DOS 5 computer. I may look for it later.
  
  
  
  
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[SAIDJACK]

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In a message dated 8/28/2007 13:41:24 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
writes:


Here's a link to the resulting png from hpgs
_ftp://ftp.sonic.net/pub/users/rexa/E1938A/E1938_asdrawb.png_ 
(ftp://ftp.sonic.net/pub/users/rexa/E1938A/E1938_asdrawb.png) 
Anybody here that can generate PDF's with 300 or more DPI?
 
PS, HPGL, PNG, all not standard anymore as this long thread is showing...  
JPG, PDF, HTML is the name of the game these days :)
 
I can generate PDF's from PS files, if that helps. I can also render PDF's  
into raster-files if needed.
 
Thanks,
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Rex]

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On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:36:44 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

JPG, PDF, HTML is the name of the game these days :)
 

I don't completely agree.

JPG is not good for line drawings like schematics. A lossless
compression like GIF or PNG is much better. HTML by itself doesn't
support images (needs imbedded jpg, gif, png, etc.) and has limited text
formatting. I hate it when the only availble document format is
html-based.

PDF is ok, but hard to modify without spending money (like to split a
schematic between multiple 8.5 x 11 pages for printing.)

 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Bill Jones, K8CU]

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 Anybody here that can generate PDF's with 300 or more DPI?


Hello Said,

Yes, no problem. Please direct me to the URL for the schematic in hpgl
format. I can't seem to locate it.

However, I did find the E1938 assembly drawing and have posted an
appropriate pdf here:
http://www.realhamradio.com/E1938_asdrawb.pdf

I will be happy to post a high resolution schematic when I locate the hpgl
source. The schematic may be more comfortable to view by simply plotting
directly to a D-size plotter, but the pdf will work OK if you don't mind the
limitations of your screen size.

Thanks,

Bill, K8CU


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Magnus Danielson]

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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:36:44 EDT
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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 In a message dated 8/28/2007 13:41:24 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
 PROTECTED]  
 writes:
 
 
 Here's a link to the resulting png from hpgs
 _ftp://ftp.sonic.net/pub/users/rexa/E1938A/E1938_asdrawb.png_ 
 (ftp://ftp.sonic.net/pub/users/rexa/E1938A/E1938_asdrawb.png) 
 Anybody here that can generate PDF's with 300 or more DPI?

Where's the problem??? PDF as such is really not DPI limited, raster formats in
it is however... but a good HPGL to PS to PDF conversion would still only be
vectors...

 PS, HPGL, PNG, all not standard anymore as this long thread is showing...  
 JPG, PDF, HTML is the name of the game these days :)

Said, you have your timing screwed up here. PNG is definitly much newer than
JPG. PNG is certainly standard and viewers are plentiful (web-browsers
anyone?). Hell, even GIF87 still works!!! HTML is also older than PNG. I've
seen PNG progress from the GIF2000 proposal after I have been teaching HTML and
JPG to the students.

Doing such incorrect timing errors on a time-list? Can't avoid pointing them
out.

HPGL is an old format, that is true. Still makes alot of wheels turn, but maybe
not as generic exchange format these days.

PS is still a very valid format, but it is not as neat as PDF and thankfully
PDF is now more widely spread, but it has been a major headache before.

Oh, and HTML is old as hell now, you should sing the prais of XHTML and XML
these days. It is only old farts like myself that still hack HTML by hand.
My webpages layout makes stone-age feel recent and as a fresh wind.

PS. I envy you guys for having the E1938A to fool around with!!! 

Cheers,
Magnus - running old?

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[SAIDJACK]

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In a message dated 8/28/2007 15:06:22 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
writes:

PDF  is ok, but hard to modify without spending money (like to split  a
schematic between multiple 8.5 x 11 pages for  printing.)



Orcad generates great schematics in PDF with Acrobat when set to 300 or  
better 600dpi. Best printed out on 11x17 on an HP 8500 in color which are  
available for around $300 used here...
 
I hear there is a public-domain PDF writer for windows that's even better  
than Acrobat.
 
JPG can be set to be losless, it's supported by the standard, but I agree  
GIF or TIFF is better.
 
The biggest advantage to JPG and PDF is that everyone around the world can  
view the files without having to install a special viewer, use a special OS, or 
 printer driver etc...
 
bye,
Said
 
 



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[SAIDJACK]

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In a message dated 8/28/2007 15:24:24 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Said, you have your timing screwed up here. PNG is definitly much  newer than
JPG. PNG is certainly standard and viewers are plentiful  (web-browsers
anyone?).



Hi Magnus,
 
have you opened a PNG lately in internet explorer? What a headache. Looks  
totally crappy, cannot zoom, cannot rotate etc. Not a format that's mainstream  
yet such as JPG.

Bless all those PDF readers out there... But:
 
For some reason PDF's sometimes get generated with 75dpi embedded raster  
schematics etc. Totally useless. That's where the 300 - 600 dpi is needed.
 
bye,
Said
 



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Brooke Clarke]

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Hi Rex:

Too soon to say.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com



Rex wrote:
 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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 On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:01:12 -0700, Brooke Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 
Hi:

Scott will convert the files and I'll post them when they arrive.
I've also added a Windows control program to the page.
You may need to force a reload to see the new items.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com
 
 
 Will you make the original hpg files available too? PDF isn't my
 favorite.
 
 -Rex
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[SAIDJACK]

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In a message dated 8/28/2007 15:07:14 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

will  be happy to post a high resolution schematic when I locate the  hpgl
source. The schematic may be more comfortable to view by simply  plotting
directly to a D-size plotter, but the pdf will work OK if you  don't mind the
limitations of your screen  size.

Thanks,

Bill, K8CU


Hi Bill,
 
thanks for offering, Brooke has the files...
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Hal Murray]

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 JPG can be set to be losless, it's supported by the standard, but I
 agree   GIF or TIFF is better. 

gif and png are (normally) lossless compression.  They are intended for 
graphs and such that only use a few colors.

jpg and tiff are intended for pictures with zillions of colors.  jpg is 
normally lossy and tiff is normally lossless.

-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Didier Juges]

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I used the free SwiftView viewer to render the page on screen, then PDF
creator to print it to pdf. The result is readable, I have uploaded it to

http://www.ko4bb.com/Test_Equipment/E1938.pdf

Didier KO4BB 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Miles
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:58 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
 
 My plotter emulator (7470.EXE) will actually render the file, 
 but not at a high-enough resolution to read the text.  Plus, 
 it was stored in portrait mode for some reason, which is a 
 problem for both 7470.EXE and the other HP-GL viewer I have 
 on this machine (the free GC-Prevue Gerber viewer).
 
 So if someone can rotate it and render it to a .PDF at a 
 decent resolution, that'd be helpful...
 
 -- john, KE5FX
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Behalf Of Arnold Tibus
  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:13 AM
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
 
 
  On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:18:55 -0700, Brooke Clarke wrote:
 
  Hi:
 
  I'm working on a web page for the E1938 and have received a
  bunch of files from
  Rick.  One of them is a .HPG of a schematic.  I've tried to use
  IrfanView, but
  it's a program I normally don't use and all the images are way
  too coarse to be
  useable.  Is there a way to convert it to something that 
 can be read?
 
  Hello Brooke,
  Irfanview is in fact very powerful, but as can see in V4.0, 
 it is  n o 
  t  capable to read HPGL-files - so it is not capable to 
 convert into 
  another format.
  I know only Autocad able to read .hpg, but that does not look very 
  comfortable.
 
  If you have a way to print-out these plot pictures (I suppose they 
  are) so one could make a sharp hi-q picture with a modern 6 
 Mp camera 
  and use the jpg pictures in your page, is that a 
 possibility for you?
 
  regards,
  Arnold
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Didier Juges]

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Jean-Louis, you can upload it to my server

http://www.ko4bb.com/ham_radio/Manuals

Instructions are at the top of the page

Merci d'avance,

Didier KO4BB
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jean-Louis Oneto
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:03 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
 
 Hello all,
 I succeeded to read it with Corel PaintShopPro XI and then 
 converted it to PDF with PDF Creator. The PDF file is 113kB 
 but zip down to 96kB. Let me kow if you're interested, and 
 where I can put it (I don't have a server available here).
 Have a nice day,
 Jean-Louis Oneto
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Brooke Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
 time-nuts@febo.com
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
 
 
  ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
 
  Hi Scott:
 
  Yes.  Can it be read?  How did you do it?
 
  Have Fun,
 
  Brooke Clarke
  http://www.PRC68.com
  http://www.precisionclock.com
 
 
 
  Scott Newell wrote:
  ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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  At 01:51 PM 8/28/2007 , Brooke Clarke wrote:
 
 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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 Hi Scott:
 
 I have uploaded the smallest one E1938_asdrawb.hpg at:
 http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/E1938_asdrawb.hpg
 
 
  Yep, HPGL.
 
  Want a pdf?
 
 
 
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  and follow the instructions there. 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Didier Juges]

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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:22 PM
 To: time-nuts@febo.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
 
...
 XHTML and XML these days. It is only old farts like myself 
 that still hack HTML by hand.
 My webpages layout makes stone-age feel recent and as a fresh wind.

Magnus, you are not the only one :-)
www.ko4bb.com, all htmlized by hand...

Pages load quickly even through a modem...

Didier KO4BB


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Jean-Louis Oneto]

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Hi Didier,
I just put the file on your server under the name E1938_asdrawb.pdf. I can 
easily save it to other formats as well if anybody prefers.
Thanks for giving it a home...
Jean-Louis
- Original Message - 
From: Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page


 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

 Jean-Louis, you can upload it to my server

 http://www.ko4bb.com/ham_radio/Manuals

 Instructions are at the top of the page

 Merci d'avance,

 Didier KO4BB


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jean-Louis Oneto
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:03 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

 Hello all,
 I succeeded to read it with Corel PaintShopPro XI and then
 converted it to PDF with PDF Creator. The PDF file is 113kB
 but zip down to 96kB. Let me kow if you're interested, and
 where I can put it (I don't have a server available here).
 Have a nice day,
 Jean-Louis Oneto

 - Original Message -
 From: Brooke Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 time-nuts@febo.com
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page


  ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
  Errors-To:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
 
  Hi Scott:
 
  Yes.  Can it be read?  How did you do it?
 
  Have Fun,
 
  Brooke Clarke
  http://www.PRC68.com
  http://www.precisionclock.com
 
 
 
  Scott Newell wrote:
  ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
  Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
 
  At 01:51 PM 8/28/2007 , Brooke Clarke wrote:
 
 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
 
 Hi Scott:
 
 I have uploaded the smallest one E1938_asdrawb.hpg at:
 http://www.prc68.com/I/pdf/E1938_asdrawb.hpg
 
 
  Yep, HPGL.
 
  Want a pdf?
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Magnus Danielson]

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From: Hal Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:48:14 -0700
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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  JPG can be set to be losless, it's supported by the standard, but I
  agree   GIF or TIFF is better. 

Let's separate the JPEG standard from the baseline JPEG file format JFIF (known
as JPG or .jpg). The JFIF file-format selects a profile of the JPEG standard
also known as baseline JPEG. Baseline JPEG is not lossless. A number of nifty
features from the JPEG standard (such as the IBM entropy codec) is left out the
baseline format. TIFF (which is not one compression algorithm, but a format
supporting several algorithms) supports the full JPEG standard, but this is
rarely supported in real life.

 gif and png are (normally) lossless compression.  They are intended for 
 graphs and such that only use a few colors.
 
 jpg and tiff are intended for pictures with zillions of colors.  jpg is 
 normally lossy and tiff is normally lossless.

... in real life. Then we have upcomming JPEG2000. Wavelet compression.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[SAIDJACK]

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In a message dated 8/28/2007 18:24:14 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi  Didier,
I just put the file on your server under the name  E1938_asdrawb.pdf. I can 
easily save it to other formats as well if  anybody prefers.
Thanks for giving it a  home...
Jean-Louis


Hi Guys,
 
I hope we can accumulate all these E1938A files on Brooke's URL so it's not  
scattered around...
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Magnus Danielson]

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From: Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:39:25 -0500
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 www.ko4bb.com, all htmlized by hand...

Yes, but you have decorations like background picture and animated images.
I skipped those and the only advanced feature I've tried is some MathML for
the hyperfine splitting page.

 Pages load quickly even through a modem...

All creators of overloaded turbo-graphic on their pages should be sentenced to
a month of 300 baud modem only access.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[SAIDJACK]

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In a message dated 8/28/2007 18:29:41 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  have you opened a PNG lately in internet explorer? What a headache.  Looks 
 
 totally crappy, cannot zoom, cannot rotate etc. Not a  format that's 
mainstream  
 yet such as JPG.

Why would  I be using Internet Explorer?



Hi Magnus,
 
It's a religious question, so there is no answer to it - just  endless 
discussion.
 
But one reason would be: so we don't have to have these types of  
incompatibility discussions :)
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Didier Juges]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
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Thank you,

It's been moved to the Test Equipment page

http://www.ko4bb.com/Test_Equipment/E1938_asdrawb.pdf

Didier KO4BB

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jean-Louis Oneto
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:23 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
 
 Hi Didier,
 I just put the file on your server under the name 
 E1938_asdrawb.pdf. I can easily save it to other formats as 
 well if anybody prefers.
 Thanks for giving it a home...
 Jean-Louis


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Didier Juges]

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Anyone is welcome to download from where it is and put it where one chooses.

I am just supporting an experiment in pdf conversion and offering a place
where people can upload documents of general interest. Some documents are
too big for file attachments, so it is convenient to be able to ftp them to
a public place. I simply offer space to do that. What people do with the
material once it is uploaded is their business.

I do not intend to duplicate Brooke's or anyone else's pages.

Didier KO4BB 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:40 PM
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page
 
  
 In a message dated 8/28/2007 18:24:14 Pacific Daylight Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 Hi  Didier,
 I just put the file on your server under the name  
 E1938_asdrawb.pdf. I 
 can easily save it to other formats as well if  anybody prefers.
 Thanks for giving it a  home...
 Jean-Louis
 
 
 Hi Guys,
  
 I hope we can accumulate all these E1938A files on Brooke's 
 URL so it's not scattered around...
  
 bye,
 Said
 


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Christopher Hoover]

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I'll say this once again.


The only two appropriate conversion options for the HPGL files are:

1. SVG -- the W3C XML standard for vector graphics (cf.
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/ )

2. PDF -- via a path produces vector PostScript in the PDF, i.e., one that
has NOT gone through RIP (Raster Image Processing). 

(If you claim to have a PDF processing solution, you must say if the
solution RIP's the graphics.   If it does or you don't know, it is a
non-solution!)


Anything else is a BAD idea.  This certainly includes any path that results
in JPEG of any sort, GIF, TIFF, or any other raster images except maybe for
thumbnails.  I don't care if your raster compression technology is lossless;
it is the wrong thing here.

(I apologize if I sound harsh, but there's some misinformation being
spread.)

-ch



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Neon John]

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On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:02:59 -, Jean-Louis Oneto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

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Hello all,
I succeeded to read it with Corel PaintShopPro XI and then converted it to 
PDF with PDF Creator. The PDF file is 113kB but zip down to 96kB. Let me kow 
if you're interested, and where I can put it (I don't have a server 
available here).

I read that file into CorelDraw, keeping it as a vector file.  I used Acrobat to
create a PDF, still in vector format.  42kb.

Brooke, AutoCAD should be able to read in an HPGL.  Look at your file suffix 
options.
sometimes an HPGL file is a .plt (plot) file.  That's what Corel wants to see, 
though
it handled .hpg OK.

In any event, you'll want to keep them in vector format for all the obvious 
reasons.
If AutoCAD can't do it, send 'em to me or put them up for download and I'll 
convert
them for you.

I recommend putting the HPG files up too, as they can be directly squirted to a
plotter without having to go through any intermediate process.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Why the US is losing its competitivve edge:It used to be that the USA was 
pretty good at 
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with.-James 
Niccol 


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[SAIDJACK]

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In a message dated 8/28/2007 19:53:06 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Anything else is a BAD idea.  This certainly includes any path  that results
in JPEG of any sort, GIF, TIFF, or any other raster images  except maybe for
thumbnails.  I don't care if your raster  compression technology is lossless;



Hi CH,
 
respectfully disagree: that would mean we should get out our  good-old 
pen-plotters and vector-graphics displays as well? But even those  rasterize in 
their DAC and Stepper-Motor resolutions...
 
High-resolution raster-files can guarantee that all traces in a schematic  
line up, the text has the correct size and type etc, and no one in Asia is  
modifying the files.
 
File-size is not an issue, our 5-page schematics in 600 dpi turn into a  
beautiful and tiny 105 KByte PDF file that prints perfectly  even on D-Size 
paper. 
105KB is probably less space than an  embedded font would take. 
 
Especially for schematics run-length coding works wonders on raster  files.
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Neon John]

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On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:28:01 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
In a message dated 8/28/2007 15:06:22 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
writes:

PDF  is ok, but hard to modify without spending money (like to split  a
schematic between multiple 8.5 x 11 pages for  printing.)



Orcad generates great schematics in PDF with Acrobat when set to 300 or  
better 600dpi. Best printed out on 11x17 on an HP 8500 in color which are  
available for around $300 used here...

Whythahell would anyone convert a nice compact and effectively infinite 
resolution
vector file into raster?  The file size blows up to something huge and the 
resolution
is then fixed at whatever DPI was chosen.  If the file needs to be rasterized 
for
printing then the proper place for that to be done is in the printer driver.
Presumably the printer driver writer knew how to optimize the conversion for his
hardware.

 
I hear there is a public-domain PDF writer for windows that's even better  
than Acrobat.

Not even close, at least for the several that I've tried.  Ditto a couple of
commercial ones.  I despise Adobe the company and dislike the clunky and 
overpriced
Acrobat software but to generate nice compact 100% compliant pdfs, it's the 
only way
to go.

Please keep these files in vector format, if for not other reason that it bad 
karma
to throw away information needlessly, which is what vector/raster conversion 
does.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
I'm so cool, I'm afraid to catch a cold.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Neon John]

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On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:45:11 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


respectfully disagree: that would mean we should get out our  good-old 
pen-plotters and vector-graphics displays as well? 

My E-size HP pen plotter is still working just fine, thank you.

But even those  rasterize in 
their DAC and Stepper-Motor resolutions...

The key there is that the rasterization is done IN THE DEVICE where the 
conversion is
done optimally for that device.
 
High-resolution raster-files can guarantee that all traces in a schematic  
line up, the text has the correct size and type etc, and no one in Asia is  
modifying the files.
 
File-size is not an issue, our 5-page schematics in 600 dpi turn into a  
beautiful and tiny 105 KByte PDF file that prints perfectly  even on D-Size 
paper. 
105KB is probably less space than an  embedded font would take. 
 
Especially for schematics run-length coding works wonders on raster  files.

I don't see very well so when I work on an electronic project I like to plot the
schematics out D or E size and plaster the walls of my shop with 'em.  When 
someone
gratuitously converts a vector format to a raster format, that option is taken 
away
from me.  The best that I can hope to do is take the largest printout from my 
printer
to a copy shop and have it blown up into a crude enlargement, jaggies and all.  
That
costs time and money.

It's even dumber to convert mechanical drawings such as Brooke's example.  
Someone
may want to make a replacement panel for the instrument someday.  Sure is nice 
to
spit that HPGL or dXF or PDF file at a CNC machine.  Can't do that with rasters.

If you want raster images then by all means convert to them for your own use but
please, leave 'em alone for the rest of us.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Nuke the Whales!


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 Web Page

[Neon John]

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On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:44:56 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi John,
 
ok, I guess my comment about 600dpi PDF files being sufficient for the job  
is not resonating here. Case in point:
 
At a previous employer, our boss insisted vector is the only way to  go for 
schematics and other images. So when we did documentation in Framemaker  
(under Linux I must add) we added DXF vector files for the schematics as  
required.

The result was a disaster: Framemaker 6 totally butchered our  schematics. 
The DXF files themselves were not the issue.

The fault was using a whacky fringe program on a fringe operating system and 
not the
vector file.  Do the same thing with a mainline publishing package like 
PageMaker,
InDesign, Quark or even, God forbid, Microsoft turd and see how it comes out.  
I've
contract-published uncountable documents that used vector graphics without a 
burp.

Since we don't plan to re-build the E1938A PCB's here (or do we?) I don't  
think vector files for simple PCB silkscreen images that are probably ok in  
150dpi are an absolute must and raster files are junk.

Who knows?  What do you reckon these guys would have given for some Gerbers?

http://www.altairkit.com/

Actually he tells you how much he'd have given for Gerbers A lot.

The trend for people remaking old hardware is increasing

http://www.retrothing.com/2006/12/altair_8800_rep.html

 
Some folks commenting here about the absolute need for vector files don't  
even seem to have an E1938A or a need for it's documentation.

Doesn't matter.  None of us have crystal balls but with the benefit of 
hindsight we
know (most of us at least) know that it's bad karma to throw information away,
especially for no good reason.  I can easily convert from vector to raster.  
Not so
easy going the other way.
 
I personally would prefer some low tech JPEG pictures of the E1983A  hookup 
rather than infinite resolution HPGL files of silkscreens etc that are  not 
very helpful in using the unit.

So convert 'em yourself to your own needs.  Meanwhile leave the originals alone 
so
that other people with other needs (such as myself who needs to blow the 
drawings up
to be able to see them without a magnifying glass) can take care of those.  
There are
zillions of programs out there, free and commercial, that can do the 
vector/raster
conversion.  Just not a big deal if that's what you want.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
What do you call a blonde's dildo?  Pneumatic tool.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Jeroen Bastemeijer]

Dear Richard,

I have some former colleagues who went to the US. Please give some time 
to contact them. I will mail back to you soon.

Thank you, best regards,

Jeroen Bastemeijer

Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

I would like to ship to only USA addresses.
Can you provide a USA shipping address?

Rick Karlquist, N6RK

  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dr Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:53 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator


Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:


AFAIK, there is no manual on the E1938 (in the sense of the 
  

10811 manual).


And I should know.

I am attempting to compile what information I have
and get it archived on line somewhere.  Can you
give me a pointer to the stuff on TVB's site so
I make sure I am not reinventing the wheel?

I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
I can't accept money for these units.

Rick Karlquist N6RK
E1938A circuit designer

  
  

Rick
Link to TVB's webpage on E1938A:
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/

I'd like a couple of the surplus E1938A's however I'm in New Zealand.

Bruce


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-- 
Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer

Delft University of Technology
Department of Electrical Engineering
Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory
Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090
2628 CD Delft
The Netherlands

Phone: +31.15.27.86542
Fax: +31.15.27.85755
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist]

I would like to ship to only USA addresses.
Can you provide a USA shipping address?

Rick Karlquist, N6RK

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Dr Bruce Griffiths
 Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:53 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator
 
 
 Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
  AFAIK, there is no manual on the E1938 (in the sense of the 
 10811 manual).
  And I should know.
 
  I am attempting to compile what information I have
  and get it archived on line somewhere.  Can you
  give me a pointer to the stuff on TVB's site so
  I make sure I am not reinventing the wheel?
 
  I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
  wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
  was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
  I can't accept money for these units.
 
  Rick Karlquist N6RK
  E1938A circuit designer
 

 Rick
 Link to TVB's webpage on E1938A:
 http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
 
 I'd like a couple of the surplus E1938A's however I'm in New Zealand.
 
 Bruce
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist]

Please send any correspondence regarding E1938A
oscillators directly to me at:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

rather than cluttering up the list.  Do not send
any checks unless specifically asked.  If you 
sent a check, it will not be cashed until and 
unless an oscillator is shipped.  I reserve the
right to decide who does or does not get a FREE
oscillator for any reason or no reason.

Again, thank you for your patience.

Rick Karlquist



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Bill Beam
 Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 12:26 AM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator
 
 
 Mr. Karlquist is not telling the truth.  I never requested a refund.
 
 Since days may pass without a reply to off-list emails and he
 responds within hours to on-list posts, it appears that on-list is
 the only way to communicate.
 
 At least, I now know where my payment went.
 
 On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:33:34 -0700, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
 
 Bill's check, per his request, has been returned to him,
 uncashed.  I guess he didn't think the E1938A was worth
 the wait.
 
 All E1938A email automatically goes to my E1938A Outlook
 folder, to be read as time permits.  I have distributed
 some of the oscillators.  I still want to find good homes
 for the rest of them.  Thank you for being patient.
 
 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Behalf Of Bill Beam
  Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:42 PM
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator
  
  
  Hello,
  
  Has anyone on list ever received one of these oscillators?
  
  Three weeks ago I sent him $ as instructed below.  Since then
  he has stopped responding to e--mail and I have no oscillators.
  
  Is he away on vacation, sick in hospital, in jail?  Or does
  HP/Agilant have other ideas about the distribution of thier
  surplus oscillators?
  
  Bill
  
  On Sat, 26 May 2007 14:07:12 -0700, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
  
   I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
   wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
   was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
   I can't accept money for these units.
   
   Rick Karlquist N6RK
   E1938A circuit designer
   
   On Fri, 25 May 2007 19:01:47 -0700, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
   
   Just send me your address and $8.95 for a priority
   mail flat rate box for each oscillator.
   
   Rick
   
  
 
 
 Bill Beam
 NL7F
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 No virus found in this outgoing message.
 Checked by AVG. 
 Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.13/840 - Release Date: 
 6/8/2007 3:15 PM
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Bill Beam]

Hello,

Has anyone on list ever received one of these oscillators?

Three weeks ago I sent him $ as instructed below.  Since then
he has stopped responding to e--mail and I have no oscillators.

Is he away on vacation, sick in hospital, in jail?  Or does
HP/Agilant have other ideas about the distribution of thier
surplus oscillators?

Bill

On Sat, 26 May 2007 14:07:12 -0700, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

 I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
 wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
 was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
 I can't accept money for these units.
 
 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 E1938A circuit designer
 
 On Fri, 25 May 2007 19:01:47 -0700, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
 
 Just send me your address and $8.95 for a priority
 mail flat rate box for each oscillator.
 
 Rick
 

Bill Beam
NL7F





-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.13/840 - Release Date: 6/8/2007 3:15 PM


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[SAIDJACK]

 
In a message dated 6/14/2007 13:44:16 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
writes:

Is  he away on vacation, sick in hospital, in jail?  Or  does
HP/Agilant have other ideas about the distribution of  thier
surplus oscillators?

Bill



Hi Bill,
 
I think he was totally overwhelmed by the number of requests. But what to  
expect if you offer free candy to the kid who is not allowed into the  
candy-store.
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Robert Atkinson]

Hi,
I'd have to agree with Said,
FEI got hit with fines for shipping 1000B OCXO's that were diverted to a
proscribed country. Most major countries that are allies of the USA
should be OK though. 
It's surprising what is controlled, very high speed 'scopes, low
inductance high energy capacitors, quite a lot of fibre optic and laser
stuff too.

Robert.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 27 May 2007 01:39
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

 
In a message dated 5/26/2007 15:20:44 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Richard  (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
 Regarding non-USA requestors:  I will  need to look
 into the customs aspect of this.  If anyone on  the
 list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
  helpful.  These are gifts if that matters for
 customs  purposes.  Also, they have essentially zero
 market value as  discards.



Hello Rick,
 
on the customs issue, you may have to check the items against the
commerce  
control list (CCL Export Administration Regulation) especially section
3A002 I  
believe.
 
Even (or especially!) if they are of $0 value prototypes.
 
High-tech items such as this super-high-tech oscillator cannot be
exported 
into all countries w/o export license. You have to check the list, and
then 
consider each country individually. Usually most western countries do
not 
present an issue except maybe Israel.
 
Fedex for example will ask for a harmonized code from the CCL to be  
written on the transport paperwork, and will not export it without
written  
declaration by you.
 
The government can be extremely sensitive to this, that's why some
companies 
like MiniCircuits require a declaration of conformance even when  buying
and 
shipping their parts in the US!
 
It is for example illegal to just sent schematics to China via email
without 
export license...
 
bye,
Said



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England No. 2660050   www.genetix.com 
Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not 
necessarily Genetix Ltd (Genetix) or any company associated with it. This email 
and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of 
the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person 
responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have 
received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you 
have received this email in error please notify Genetix by telephone on +44 
(0)1425 624600.
The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is 
strictly forbidden. This mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Björn Gabrielsson]

FEI should be FTS ?

On Tue, May 29, 2007 9:31, Robert Atkinson said:
 Hi,
 I'd have to agree with Said,
 FEI got hit with fines for shipping 1000B OCXO's that were diverted to a
 proscribed country. Most major countries that are allies of the USA
 should be OK though.
 It's surprising what is controlled, very high speed 'scopes, low
 inductance high energy capacitors, quite a lot of fibre optic and laser
 stuff too.

 Robert.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 27 May 2007 01:39
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator


 In a message dated 5/26/2007 15:20:44 Pacific Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Richard  (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
 Regarding non-USA requestors:  I will  need to look
 into the customs aspect of this.  If anyone on  the
 list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
  helpful.  These are gifts if that matters for
 customs  purposes.  Also, they have essentially zero
 market value as  discards.



 Hello Rick,

 on the customs issue, you may have to check the items against the
 commerce
 control list (CCL Export Administration Regulation) especially section
 3A002 I
 believe.

 Even (or especially!) if they are of $0 value prototypes.

 High-tech items such as this super-high-tech oscillator cannot be
 exported
 into all countries w/o export license. You have to check the list, and
 then
 consider each country individually. Usually most western countries do
 not
 present an issue except maybe Israel.

 Fedex for example will ask for a harmonized code from the CCL to be
 written on the transport paperwork, and will not export it without
 written
 declaration by you.

 The government can be extremely sensitive to this, that's why some
 companies
 like MiniCircuits require a declaration of conformance even when  buying
 and
 shipping their parts in the US!

 It is for example illegal to just sent schematics to China via email
 without
 export license...

 bye,
 Said



 ** See what's free at
 http://www.aol.com.
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 Genetix Limited - Queensway, New Milton, Hampshire, BH25 5NN  Registered
 in England No. 2660050   www.genetix.com
 Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not
 necessarily Genetix Ltd (Genetix) or any company associated with it. This
 email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for
 the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient
 or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be
 advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is
 strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please
 notify Genetix by telephone on +44 (0)1425 624600.
 The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is
 strictly forbidden. This mail and any attachments have been scanned for
 viruses prior to leaving Genetix network. Genetix will not be liable for
 direct, special, indirect or consequential damages as a result of any
 virus being passed on, or arising from alteration of the contents of this
 message by a third party.
 

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Dr Bruce Griffiths]

Robert Atkinson wrote:
 Hi,
 I'd have to agree with Said,
 FEI got hit with fines for shipping 1000B OCXO's that were diverted to a
 proscribed country. Most major countries that are allies of the USA
 should be OK though. 
 It's surprising what is controlled, very high speed 'scopes, low
 inductance high energy capacitors, quite a lot of fibre optic and laser
 stuff too.

 Robert.

   
Robert

That would have been under the old COCOM rules and cooresponding lists 
of controlled export items.
The actual controlled export items in the new lists were revised 
recently and such crystal oscillators no longer appear to be a 
controlled item.
Makes sense, since the Russia and China and other countries have have 
made equivalent performance oscillators for years.
Similarly rules on exporting some lasers have also been relaxed.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Rob Kimberley]

FEI didn't make the 1000B OCXO

:-)

Rob 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dr Bruce Griffiths
Sent: 29 May 2007 09:35
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

Robert Atkinson wrote:
 Hi,
 I'd have to agree with Said,
 FEI got hit with fines for shipping 1000B OCXO's that were diverted to 
 a proscribed country. Most major countries that are allies of the 
 USA should be OK though.
 It's surprising what is controlled, very high speed 'scopes, low 
 inductance high energy capacitors, quite a lot of fibre optic and 
 laser stuff too.

 Robert.

   
Robert

That would have been under the old COCOM rules and cooresponding lists of
controlled export items.
The actual controlled export items in the new lists were revised recently
and such crystal oscillators no longer appear to be a controlled item.
Makes sense, since the Russia and China and other countries have have made
equivalent performance oscillators for years.
Similarly rules on exporting some lasers have also been relaxed.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Rob Kimberley]

I agree with Bruce on this one. The whole idea of any restriction is to
protect technology from getting into the wrong hands. If they already have
that technology, then not much point in trying to restrict its export.

Rob 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dr Bruce Griffiths
Sent: 29 May 2007 09:35
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

Robert Atkinson wrote:
 Hi,
 I'd have to agree with Said,
 FEI got hit with fines for shipping 1000B OCXO's that were diverted to 
 a proscribed country. Most major countries that are allies of the 
 USA should be OK though.
 It's surprising what is controlled, very high speed 'scopes, low 
 inductance high energy capacitors, quite a lot of fibre optic and 
 laser stuff too.

 Robert.

   
Robert

That would have been under the old COCOM rules and cooresponding lists of
controlled export items.
The actual controlled export items in the new lists were revised recently
and such crystal oscillators no longer appear to be a controlled item.
Makes sense, since the Russia and China and other countries have have made
equivalent performance oscillators for years.
Similarly rules on exporting some lasers have also been relaxed.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message !!AAAYAOYAZyOzV8ERq+LmT45ypI7CgAAAEBvfOzZD3oJO
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Kimberley writes:

I agree with Bruce on this one. The whole idea of any restriction is to
protect technology from getting into the wrong hands. If they already have
that technology, then not much point in trying to restrict its export.

We, depends how many they need, right ?

There is a big difference between trying to restrict HV caps for nuclear
detonators and 12.7mm bullets...

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dr Bruce Griffiths writes:
Robert Atkinson wrote:

The actual controlled export items in the new lists were revised 
recently and such crystal oscillators no longer appear to be a 
controlled item.

But interestingly enough, nobody has bothered remove analogue
computers from the list last I looked :-)

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Dr Bruce Griffiths]

Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dr Bruce Griffiths writes:
   
 Robert Atkinson wrote:
 

   
 The actual controlled export items in the new lists were revised 
 recently and such crystal oscillators no longer appear to be a 
 controlled item.
 

 But interestingly enough, nobody has bothered remove analogue
 computers from the list last I looked :-)

   
Poul-Henning

Well spotted.
To this you can add
Machetes (Post Rwanda item??).
Horses (by sea for slaughter).

The most amusing part is that the list of components proscribed by non 
nuclear proliferation requirements creates a handy shopping list of all 
you need to acquire for Uranium enrichment either via centrifuge or 
gaseous diffusion as well as a set of specifications for these and bomb 
triggering components.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Rob Kimberley]

Shouldn't we restrict our conversation to timing stuff on this group? I'm
sure there are lots of other restricted items out there to make bombs etc,
but we were talking I believe about OCXOs. In the main the technology we are
discussing is pretty well known in all quarters. As long as you cover
yourself by stating who the end user is, then you are safe. If you are
selling via a third party, then make sure that you are happy with the
references he provides. If not - don't sell.

Rob  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: 29 May 2007 10:04
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

In message
!!AAAYAOYAZyOzV8ERq+LmT45ypI7CgAAAEBvfOzZD3oJO
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Kimberley writes:

I agree with Bruce on this one. The whole idea of any restriction is to 
protect technology from getting into the wrong hands. If they already 
have that technology, then not much point in trying to restrict its export.

We, depends how many they need, right ?

There is a big difference between trying to restrict HV caps for nuclear
detonators and 12.7mm bullets...

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Arnold Tibus]

Hi Said, 
private international shipment and customs is not that problematic to my 
knowledge and experience, at least between the USA and Europe.

On Sat, 26 May 2007 20:39:23 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Hello Rick,
  
 on the customs issue, you may have to check the items against the commerce  
 control list (CCL Export Administration Regulation) especially section 3A002 
 I  
 believe.
  
 Even (or especially!) if they are of $0 value prototypes.

---
That is true for bigger and commercial transfers. Customs would appreciate 
to get everything done for them, but who as private person does know about 
this long code list?
I found, for private transfers and small numbers of items, specially for not 
new 
things of low or no commercial interest, it is ok and sufficient to describe 
verbally but understandable. Just an example:

 used old (cannibalized) oscillator (clock), for (amateur) radio transmitter, 
unknown state, likely defective, present value USD 8.-- 
(or: none, scrap, but may evtl. look suspicious) 

For transmitters, antennas and their parts as used by amateurs no tax will be 
collected, just the VAT, which are now 19%, if money is paid for and the value 
is 
higher than about $ 25. (Tax is anyway lower
In worst case customs may anyway question the declaration  and the recipient 
may then be asked for some clarifications and to open the package, because the 
persons there are not always familiar with the special nomenclature. 

Concerning the remark to prototypes:
Years after official product launch for the international market, do these not 
loose their initial high non-material value?
...

  
 High-tech items such as this super-high-tech oscillator cannot be  exported 
 into all countries w/o export license. You have to check the list, and  then 
 consider each country individually. Usually most western countries do  not 
 present an issue except maybe Israel.

---
Isn't it painted a bit too black? Are there on the world's market not devices 
freely traded, equipped with such but fully qualified new oscillators? 
How do you define then primary standards as surplus?
I would consider other things eg. some special USOs designed for harsh 
environment or modern precision GPS rx etc. as (more) critical


  
 Fedex for example will ask for a harmonized code from the CCL to be  
 written on the transport paperwork, and will not export it without written  
 declaration by you.
  
 The government can be extremely sensitive to this, that's why some  companies 
 like MiniCircuits require a declaration of conformance even when  buying and 
 shipping their parts in the US!

--- 
Maybe true for key technology parts, which are very special and essential for 
certain very important products for some countries
...

  
 It is for example illegal to just sent schematics to China via email  without 
 export license...
 
 bye,
 Said
 


 from the follow-on mail of Said:

 Just mark them as such:  Gift, value $1
 

 then maybe just go to jail :)
 bye,
Said

---
sounds a bit too pessimistic, by the way Gift in german does mean poison 
which in fact I would not propose to ship ;-) 
But in fact, gift, value $1 would call me to check the contents...

regards
Arnold Tibus, DK2WT






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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Peter Vince]

Hi Rick,

If I'm not too late, I would also like one - or preferably 
two.  I am in England, so PayPal would be easiest for me, as the bank 
charges quite a bit for Dollar cheques.  However, if PayPal is not 
convenient for you, I will use whatever method you prefer.

I have imported quite a lot of equipment from the USA with no 
problems.  There is a tick-box marked Gift, and a description of 
used (or surplus) amateur radio equipment would seem fine.  A $1 
value also seems justifiable given that they are un-guaranteed 
prototypes.  Being relatively lightweight and in a small box, I doubt 
customs will give them a second look.

Regards,

Peter Vince


 I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
 wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
 was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
 I can't accept money for these units.

 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 E1938A circuit designer

Due to the high level of interest, I may need to
limit the oscillators to one per person.  I will be
getting the oscillators out of storage today and
will try to make an accounting of oscillators vs
requestors.  I am suggesting an $8.95 donation for a
flat rate Priority Mail box.  I think it will fit
into one of those boxes.

Regarding non-USA requestors:  I will need to look
into the customs aspect of this.  If anyone on the
list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
helpful.  These are gifts if that matters for
customs purposes.  Also, they have essentially zero
market value as discards.

I am happy that I can give these a good home.  I almost
threw them away last month while cleaning up.

Rick Karlquist

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[SAIDJACK]

In a message dated 5/27/2007 07:55:58 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi  Said, 
private international shipment and customs is not that  problematic to my 
knowledge and experience, at least between the USA  and Europe.

On Sat, 26 May 2007 20:39:23 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:


Hi guys,
 
ok, so there are always two approaches: you can (try to) get away with  
stuff, or follow the law. As long as they don't check closely you may get away  
with it... There are 100's of thousands of lawyers in the US trying to make  
sense of it all. 
 
There is no clear answer such as well these are old, don't work anymore, I  
can get them for $1, thus there should be no problem in not declaring them  
according to the export control requirements.
 
The CCL clearly talks about items such as space qualified oscillators, or  
stability better than 1E-011 etc. I am not trying to advise anyone if these  
units fall under the CCL or not - that's up to the exporter to determine. I  
don't know if these were ever space qualified for example (in which case it  
would deficiently be inadvisable not to declare them correctly).
 
It could be as easy as finding the item categories on the CCL, finding  out 
that Great Britain is not on the prohibited country list (most likely it  won't 
be) - and entering the correct harmonized code into the export  docs. Even an 
export novice can do this in about 15 - 20  minutes.
 
In a job I had some time ago we were not even allowed to send any  schematics 
or firmware outside of the country without export docs. They were  very 
paranoid - because they got busted before!
 
Does anyone remember the export of the PGP source code? They published  a 
printed book and sent it to Europe because they were not allowed to  export the 
soft version of the code!
 
Then again will customs check? Probably not. But what if they do?
 
bye,
Said

 



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[michael taylor]

On 5/27/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The CCL clearly talks about items such as space qualified oscillators, or
 stability better than 1E-011 etc. I am not trying to advise anyone if these

You mean it the Commerce Control List (CCL) talks about space
qualified _atomic_ frequency standards.

--
http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/pdf/ccl3.pdf

3A002 ...

g. Atomic frequency standards having any of the following:

  g.1. Long-term stability (aging) less (better) than 1 x 10^-11/month; or
  g.2. Being space qualified.

Note: 3A002.g.1 does not control non-space qualified rubidium standards.



So quartz oscillators do not fall under this category. Nevermind, that
as far as I know all HP oscillators are not space-qualified.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Arnold Tibus]

Said, 
I am sorry, I do not want to figth nor I want being involved in possible 
fights, nor do I give instructions to cheat, in contrary, I did try 
to help with my knowledge of european import laws and procedures 
for normal goods, shipped privatly. 
If necessary I can provide some documents concerned non commercial 
international shipments.
I think that it is obvious for everybody, restricted items or confidential 
documents cannot be shipped this way.
I was not aware of actual military or space-qualified and restricted items. 
Btw. I am familiar with such procedures, I designed and tested 
decades of years electronical systems and instrument-interfaces in 
international projects like Spacelab, ERS1, ERS2, ENVISAT etc. 
(worth up to ¬ 500E6) containing a big number of international hi-tech 
products...

I wish to Rick a good and wise hand for the distribution of his
electronic jewels, containing a big amount of spirit from a very successful 
design engineer.

73,

Arnold, DK2WT






On Sun, 27 May 2007 16:32:22 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In a message dated 5/27/2007 07:55:58 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi  Said, 
private international shipment and customs is not that  problematic to my 
knowledge and experience, at least between the USA  and Europe.

On Sat, 26 May 2007 20:39:23 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:


Hi guys,
 
ok, so there are always two approaches: you can (try to) get away with  
stuff, or follow the law. As long as they don't check closely you may get away 
 
with it... There are 100's of thousands of lawyers in the US trying to make  
sense of it all. 
 
There is no clear answer such as well these are old, don't work anymore, I  
can get them for $1, thus there should be no problem in not declaring them  
according to the export control requirements.
 
The CCL clearly talks about items such as space qualified oscillators, or  
stability better than 1E-011 etc. I am not trying to advise anyone if these  
units fall under the CCL or not - that's up to the exporter to determine. I  
don't know if these were ever space qualified for example (in which case it  
would deficiently be inadvisable not to declare them correctly).
 
It could be as easy as finding the item categories on the CCL, finding  out 
that Great Britain is not on the prohibited country list (most likely it  
won't 
be) - and entering the correct harmonized code into the export  docs. Even an 
export novice can do this in about 15 - 20  minutes.
 
In a job I had some time ago we were not even allowed to send any  schematics 
or firmware outside of the country without export docs. They were  very 
paranoid - because they got busted before!
 
Does anyone remember the export of the PGP source code? They published  a 
printed book and sent it to Europe because they were not allowed to  export 
the 
soft version of the code!
 
Then again will customs check? Probably not. But what if they do?
 
bye,
Said





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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[SAIDJACK]

 
In a message dated 5/27/2007 15:25:24 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I  think that it is obvious for everybody, restricted items or confidential  
documents cannot be shipped this way.


Hi Arnold,
 
you are probably right, it's probably not a big deal to send these items  
overseas. All that needs to be done by Rick is to check against the  CCL and 
make 
a judgement call.
 
We are talking about the US export controls here, the EU import regulations  
are a totally different beast.
 
Rick did however ask for advice from the group, and I just stated what  the 
law says :) And again, I worked for someone who got into trouble with  
exporting high-tech stuff so I am probably more conservative than other  folks.
 
Then again de-facto ways of doing things, and de-jure are two totally  
different things.
 
Lastly, he is probably not going to send only one or two overseas, but  a 
hole bunch so his exposure is higher.
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[SAIDJACK]

 
In a message dated 5/27/2007 14:06:11 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

On  5/27/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The CCL  clearly talks about items such as space qualified oscillators, or
  stability better than 1E-011 etc. I am not trying to advise anyone if  
these

You mean it the Commerce Control List (CCL) talks about  space
qualified _atomic_ frequency  standards.



Again, I am not qualified to make any recommendations about the CCL, or  this 
product, and was not trying to do that. The list is very long, and get's  
updated from time to time. One has to check one's product against the entire  
list. 
 
The exporter has to do that, since they are ultimately responsible. I as an  
exporter would not follow anyone's interpretation of the CCL unless  checking 
it thoroughly myself. You ask three experts (lawyers etc) and  get three 
different opinions.
 
My points were:
 
A) the exporter has to check the entire CCL against their product. Maybe  
there are internal parts in the product that need to be declared?? Maybe the  
item is totally exempted. Who knows.
 
This item strikes me as sensitive, since it is an Ultra High Stability  
Oscillator, and not just a 10MHz Microprocessor crystal.
 
B) The exporter has to check the CCL against the country that is being  
exported to. If it is blacklisted, an export license is required. The exporter  
is 
liable, since he/she signs the paperwork against penalty of law.
 
Most countries are probably no problem whatsoever, such as Western Europe,  
New Zealand etc.
 
C) A harmonized code from the CCL is needed, even if it is an all clear  
code. Otherwise Fedex etc. will not ship.
 
D) You can take the risk and not declare it correctly as has been suggested  
by some folks here. That's just like not paying taxes, you may get away with 
it  most of the time. The one time they check will bite you.
 
This is especially true here since the events of 2001.
 
There is a saying in German: Dummheit schuetzt vor Strafe nicht loosely  
translated as Ignorance doesen't prevent penalty...
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Dr Bruce Griffiths]

Said

Part of the confusion probably stems from such gems as:

Technical Notes:
1.
A resolution of n bit corresponds to a quantization of 2n levels.

Random snippet from Supplement No1 to Part 774.

Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[SAIDJACK]

 
In a message dated 5/27/2007 16:10:46 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Technical Notes:
1.
A resolution of n bit corresponds  to a quantization of 2n levels.

Random snippet from Supplement No1  to Part 774.

Bruce


Hi Bruce,
 
I have yet to figure it out too. That's why we have all these lawyers here  
in the US. What's even worse: if you give (well meant) advice, and the person  
get's into trouble, they can come after you  :(
 
But I think in spirit the export controls mean: anything that is  of 
technical value, especially if it can be used militarily, needs to be under  
very 
close control of the government.
 
Then again most Western Countries are free of most export  restrictions.
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Dr Bruce Griffiths]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
 In a message dated 5/27/2007 16:10:46 Pacific Daylight Time,  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

   
 Technical Notes:
 1.
 A resolution of n bit corresponds  to a quantization of 2n levels.
 

   
 Random snippet from Supplement No1  to Part 774.
 

   
 Bruce
 


 Hi Bruce,
  
 I have yet to figure it out too. That's why we have all these lawyers here  
 in the US. What's even worse: if you give (well meant) advice, and the person 
  
 get's into trouble, they can come after you  :(
  
 But I think in spirit the export controls mean: anything that is  of 
 technical value, especially if it can be used militarily, needs to be under  
 very 
 close control of the government.
  
 Then again most Western Countries are free of most export  restrictions.
  
 bye,
 Said
   
Said

As far as I have been able to ascertain the list of export controlled 
items is virtually identical for most western countries and Russia.
There are some slight variations (mainly additions) between countries.
No doubt (for Russia at least) the country list classifications differ.

I stumbled over the local NZ list of export controlled items, as usual 
purely by accident, when searching for something somewhat unrelated 
(External cavity diode lasers).

As far as I can tell by perusing the complete CCL list (US version) 
neither the E1938A nor any of its component parts is a controlled item.
It would take a creative interpretation by an incompetent lawyer to 
apply the section on Atomic frequency standards to the E1938A which is 
not by any stretch of the imagination an Atomic frequency standard. It 
is not capable of being space qualified without substantial redesign nor 
is it capable by design of achieving a drift of 1E-11 or less per month.

Since the US has no jurisdiction here I can give well intentioned advice 
without worrying about prosecution (as long as I don't visit the US at 
least).

Bruce


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[SAIDJACK]

 
In a message dated 5/25/2007 17:31:00 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I  still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
wants one.  They  are in worked the last time it
was turned on, but no guarantee of  specs condition.
I can't accept money for these units.

Rick  Karlquist N6RK
E1938A circuit designer



Hi Rick,
 
are you looking for a trade? I would love to have one or two of these  
E1938A's.

Thanks,
Said
 
 



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist]

 I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
 wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
 was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
 I can't accept money for these units.
 
 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 E1938A circuit designer

Due to the high level of interest, I may need to 
limit the oscillators to one per person.  I will be
getting the oscillators out of storage today and
will try to make an accounting of oscillators vs
requestors.  I am suggesting an $8.95 donation for a
flat rate Priority Mail box.  I think it will fit
into one of those boxes.

Regarding non-USA requestors:  I will need to look
into the customs aspect of this.  If anyone on the
list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
helpful.  These are gifts if that matters for
customs purposes.  Also, they have essentially zero
market value as discards.

I am happy that I can give these a good home.  I almost
threw them away last month while cleaning up.

Rick Karlquist

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Tom Van Baak]

 I am attempting to compile what information I have
 and get it archived on line somewhere.  Can you
 give me a pointer to the stuff on TVB's site so
 I make sure I am not reinventing the wheel?

Google for E1938A, what else ;-)
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/

 I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
 wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
 was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
 I can't accept money for these units.
 
 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 E1938A circuit designer

Thanks for not throwing them out! I'm sure some of
the other time nuts would like to check them out. I
probably have enough already.

/tvb


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist]

I have a lot more info available that what is
on this site.  I will be gathering it up...
Rick

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
 Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 2:14 PM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator
 
 
  I am attempting to compile what information I have
  and get it archived on line somewhere.  Can you
  give me a pointer to the stuff on TVB's site so
  I make sure I am not reinventing the wheel?
 
 Google for E1938A, what else ;-)
 http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
 
  I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
  wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
  was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
  I can't accept money for these units.
  
  Rick Karlquist N6RK
  E1938A circuit designer
 
 Thanks for not throwing them out! I'm sure some of
 the other time nuts would like to check them out. I
 probably have enough already.
 
 /tvb
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Richard \(Ric
k\) Karlquist writes:

Regarding non-USA requestors:  I will need to look
into the customs aspect of this.  If anyone on the
list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
helpful.  These are gifts if that matters for
customs purposes.  Also, they have essentially zero
market value as discards.

Just mark them as such: Gift, value $1

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Had]

Rick,

Do you accept PayPal? Or let me have your address so I can send you a 
check. Two would be really nice, for comparison, but if it is one--it is one.

Thanks,
Had, K7MLR



Due to the high level of interest, I may need to
limit the oscillators to one per person.  I will be
getting the oscillators out of storage today and
will try to make an accounting of oscillators vs
requesters.  I am suggesting an $8.95 donation for a
flat rate Priority Mail box.  I think it will fit
into one of those boxes.
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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[SAIDJACK]

Hello Rick,
 
same here, two would be great for comparison. I can also paypal you, pick  it 
up locally (Silicon Valley) or send you a check.

Please let us know,
thanks,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[SAIDJACK]

 
In a message dated 5/26/2007 15:20:44 Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Richard  (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
 Regarding non-USA requestors:  I will  need to look
 into the customs aspect of this.  If anyone on  the
 list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
  helpful.  These are gifts if that matters for
 customs  purposes.  Also, they have essentially zero
 market value as  discards.



Hello Rick,
 
on the customs issue, you may have to check the items against the commerce  
control list (CCL Export Administration Regulation) especially section 3A002 I  
believe.
 
Even (or especially!) if they are of $0 value prototypes.
 
High-tech items such as this super-high-tech oscillator cannot be  exported 
into all countries w/o export license. You have to check the list, and  then 
consider each country individually. Usually most western countries do  not 
present an issue except maybe Israel.
 
Fedex for example will ask for a harmonized code from the CCL to be  
written on the transport paperwork, and will not export it without written  
declaration by you.
 
The government can be extremely sensitive to this, that's why some  companies 
like MiniCircuits require a declaration of conformance even when  buying and 
shipping their parts in the US!
 
It is for example illegal to just sent schematics to China via email  without 
export license...
 
bye,
Said



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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[jshank]

Rick,

If any are available I would like one.  I could pay through PayPal or send 
you a money order, whichever you prefer.

Thanks,
Jeff Shank WA3GWB

- Original Message - 
From: Richard (Rick) Karlquist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator


 I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
 wants one.  They are in worked the last time it
 was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
 I can't accept money for these units.

 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 E1938A circuit designer

 Due to the high level of interest, I may need to
 limit the oscillators to one per person.  I will be
 getting the oscillators out of storage today and
 will try to make an accounting of oscillators vs
 requestors.  I am suggesting an $8.95 donation for a
 flat rate Priority Mail box.  I think it will fit
 into one of those boxes.

 Regarding non-USA requestors:  I will need to look
 into the customs aspect of this.  If anyone on the
 list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
 helpful.  These are gifts if that matters for
 customs purposes.  Also, they have essentially zero
 market value as discards.

 I am happy that I can give these a good home.  I almost
 threw them away last month while cleaning up.

 Rick Karlquist

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Jason Rabel]

As others have said, just let us know where to send the money! :)

Any other neat stuff you have laying around that you want to get rid of?
*grin*

Jason

 Due to the high level of interest, I may need to 
 limit the oscillators to one per person.  I will be
 getting the oscillators out of storage today and
 will try to make an accounting of oscillators vs
 requestors.  I am suggesting an $8.95 donation for a
 flat rate Priority Mail box.  I think it will fit
 into one of those boxes.
 
 I am happy that I can give these a good home.  I almost
 threw them away last month while cleaning up.


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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Don Couch]

Hi, Rick.
   
  If you have any left, I would like one. Please let me know how you want paid 
(cash, money order, paypal, ...)
   
  Don Couch
  3336 E. Oraibi Drive
  Phoenix, Arizona 85050
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Richard (Rick) Karlquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
 wants one. They are in worked the last time it
 was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition.
 I can't accept money for these units.
 
 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 E1938A circuit designer

Due to the high level of interest, I may need to 
limit the oscillators to one per person. I will be
getting the oscillators out of storage today and
will try to make an accounting of oscillators vs
requestors. I am suggesting an $8.95 donation for a
flat rate Priority Mail box. I think it will fit
into one of those boxes.

Regarding non-USA requestors: I will need to look
into the customs aspect of this. If anyone on the
list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
helpful. These are gifts if that matters for
customs purposes. Also, they have essentially zero
market value as discards.

I am happy that I can give these a good home. I almost
threw them away last month while cleaning up.

Rick Karlquist

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-
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, 
photos  more. 
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[time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Murray Greenman]

Hi,

Does anyone know where I might find a manual for the HP E1938 'hockey
puck' oscillator?

Yes, I know about the stuff on TVB's site - what I need is the user
manual or technical manual.

73,
Murray ZL1BPU

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Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi Murray:

Rick was involved in it's development.  Have a look at:
http://www.karlquist.com/oven.pdf
and
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=5729181

You might also ask Dave Cunningham at Agilent dcunningham @ agilent.com .  Not 
expecting to get it, but rather to get it on the list of manuals for 
discontinued equipment that he is working to put on line.
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.precisionclock.com



Murray Greenman wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Does anyone know where I might find a manual for the HP E1938 'hockey
 puck' oscillator?
 
 Yes, I know about the stuff on TVB's site - what I need is the user
 manual or technical manual.
 
 73,
 Murray ZL1BPU
 
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