Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[Richard Solomon]

I received mine yesterday, fired it up today and the Red Fault light lit up. I 
expected that.


I checked the Power, +5 and +15 looked OK.

Nothing out of either 100 MHz spigots. I hooked up the 10 MHz Input to my GPSDO 
and

still nothing out either 100 MHz spigot. Also checked with the Int/Ext switch 
in both

positions.


At this point, I have done all I can do. Until someone smarter than me finds 
something, up

on the shelf it goes.


BTW, they did put a lot of screws on the cover !!


Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>

From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of paul swed 
<paulsw...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 9:16:32 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info

Walter pure speculation.
Maybe the 100 MHz is superposed to be locked to the 10 MHz.
With a scope see what the drift rates are between the two.
Adjust EFC slowly to get the 100 MHz to go below the 10 MHZ if its running
fast.
See if the light changes to green.
If it does you know that the system is supposed to be locked and they
aren't.
Most semi good systems systems do not allow outputs if there is a fault.
But you know that already.
Pure guess.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM, djl <d...@montana.com> wrote:

> start with the power supplies, and go on until morning...
> Don
>
>
> On 2018-02-19 16:57, walter shawlee 2 wrote:
>
>> I recently got a strange little 1U FEI rack mounted unit called an
>> FE-7923F-100-1,
>> which appears to have rear 10MHz and dual 100Mhz outputs. it is called
>> a Frequency Reference Unit.
>>
>> sadly, my unit has a fault light, and no outputs. All the internal
>> supplies look good, and there is an FE-83AA (10.0Mhz) and FE-1020-100
>> (100Mhz) OCXO inside.  both of these work (when measured at the
>> oscillators), and seem to have meaningful control including EFC, and I
>> tracked down the adjustments in a sea of what seem to be prototype
>> boards next to the oscillators. so, I have two good sources,
>> adjustable, but still no outputs.
>> the OCXO signals disappear into a set of boards with no useful
>> markings as to function, and look mainly digital.
>>
>> the 100Mhz unit has only about 200mV p-p output, which seems low to
>> me, the other has lots of signal. I cannot find any data on either
>> unit on line or at the FEI website, so any data that is out there
>> would be very welcome, so I can be sure they at least are running
>> correctly.
>>
>> I am hoping to use this rack as a source of RF reference signals in
>> other gear, but clearly I will have to either gut the rest of the
>> circuitry and add some new buffers, or figure out the rats nest of
>> hand wiring to determine why it's not working.  any help in that area
>> hugely appreciated, and I can send pics to anybody interested to know
>> more about the internals.
>>
>> the rear apron has AC power in, a 10MHz output SMA, a switch next to
>> it that says INT/EXT REF. (set to INT), but no way to attach an
>> external ref.  then there's a D-Sub filtered connector, that runs to
>> the stacked digital boards, but its purpose is unknown as I cannot see
>> where the connections go.  there are also two 100Mhz SMA outputs, but
>> all outputs are dead, with no signal, and the front ONLINE green LED
>> is dark, and the red FAULT LED is lit. the oscillators do not run to
>> the rear jacks but disappear into three pcbs.
>>
>> hoping for some FEI data if anybody has some to share.
>> all the best,
>> walter
>>
>> --
>> Walter Shawlee 2, President
>> Sphere Research Corporation
>> 3394 Sunnyside Rd.,  West Kelowna,  BC
>> V1Z 2V4  CANADA  Phone: (250) 769-1834
>> walt...@sphere.bc.ca
>> WS2: We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you.
>> Love is all you need. (John Lennon)
>> But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2)
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
> --
> Dr. Don Latham
> PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
> VOX: 406-626-4304
>
>
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[paul swed]

Walter pure speculation.
Maybe the 100 MHz is superposed to be locked to the 10 MHz.
With a scope see what the drift rates are between the two.
Adjust EFC slowly to get the 100 MHz to go below the 10 MHZ if its running
fast.
See if the light changes to green.
If it does you know that the system is supposed to be locked and they
aren't.
Most semi good systems systems do not allow outputs if there is a fault.
But you know that already.
Pure guess.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM, djl  wrote:

> start with the power supplies, and go on until morning...
> Don
>
>
> On 2018-02-19 16:57, walter shawlee 2 wrote:
>
>> I recently got a strange little 1U FEI rack mounted unit called an
>> FE-7923F-100-1,
>> which appears to have rear 10MHz and dual 100Mhz outputs. it is called
>> a Frequency Reference Unit.
>>
>> sadly, my unit has a fault light, and no outputs. All the internal
>> supplies look good, and there is an FE-83AA (10.0Mhz) and FE-1020-100
>> (100Mhz) OCXO inside.  both of these work (when measured at the
>> oscillators), and seem to have meaningful control including EFC, and I
>> tracked down the adjustments in a sea of what seem to be prototype
>> boards next to the oscillators. so, I have two good sources,
>> adjustable, but still no outputs.
>> the OCXO signals disappear into a set of boards with no useful
>> markings as to function, and look mainly digital.
>>
>> the 100Mhz unit has only about 200mV p-p output, which seems low to
>> me, the other has lots of signal. I cannot find any data on either
>> unit on line or at the FEI website, so any data that is out there
>> would be very welcome, so I can be sure they at least are running
>> correctly.
>>
>> I am hoping to use this rack as a source of RF reference signals in
>> other gear, but clearly I will have to either gut the rest of the
>> circuitry and add some new buffers, or figure out the rats nest of
>> hand wiring to determine why it's not working.  any help in that area
>> hugely appreciated, and I can send pics to anybody interested to know
>> more about the internals.
>>
>> the rear apron has AC power in, a 10MHz output SMA, a switch next to
>> it that says INT/EXT REF. (set to INT), but no way to attach an
>> external ref.  then there's a D-Sub filtered connector, that runs to
>> the stacked digital boards, but its purpose is unknown as I cannot see
>> where the connections go.  there are also two 100Mhz SMA outputs, but
>> all outputs are dead, with no signal, and the front ONLINE green LED
>> is dark, and the red FAULT LED is lit. the oscillators do not run to
>> the rear jacks but disappear into three pcbs.
>>
>> hoping for some FEI data if anybody has some to share.
>> all the best,
>> walter
>>
>> --
>> Walter Shawlee 2, President
>> Sphere Research Corporation
>> 3394 Sunnyside Rd.,  West Kelowna,  BC
>> V1Z 2V4  CANADA  Phone: (250) 769-1834
>> walt...@sphere.bc.ca
>> WS2: We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you.
>> Love is all you need. (John Lennon)
>> But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2)
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
> --
> Dr. Don Latham
> PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
> VOX: 406-626-4304
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

If it works like the unit that replaced it, it has a level detect on the 
external
input that rejects signals below some threshold. It either locks up to the 
internal
standard or to the external input. All of the outputs are in the 7 to 13 dim 
range
when operating. 

The fault circuit looks at the OCXO warmup indicators as well as things like 
PLL out of range to pop the fault light. It should have timers to qualify all 
of 
this stuff. 

There also *may* be an option to pass the external standard through to the
low frequency output connector ( = no PLL on the low frequency). It depends
a bit on which application it was going into. 

Bob

> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:35 PM, Arthur Dent  wrote:
> 
> Some time ago bought one on Ebay for under $50 just because it looked
> interesting. It isn't a prototype but most of the FEI units probably
> had limited production. It seemed to be more complicated than I
> expected it to be but if I understood it better it would make more
> sense.
> 
> The 10Mhz board is enabled/disabled by the int/external switch. The
> 10Mhz output and EFC from this oscillator board are connected to the
> interface board. I believe that these 2 boards and the switch/connector
> on the back allow you to use the internal 10Mhz oscillator to output
> 10Mhz and send 10Mhz on (perhaps a connector marked J4) to a comparator
> board. If I recall this part of the unit should work independant of
> the other boards.
> 
> The comparator board is probably a PLL that compares its 10Mhz input
> with its 100Mhz input and outputs an EFC voltage to the 100Mhz
> oscillator. the 100MHz oscillator output goes to the amplifier board
> with two 100Mhz outputs on the back panel. There is also a 100Mhz
> signal that goes back to the PLL board so the 100Mhz is locked to
> the 10Mhz oscillator or an external input (if I remember correctly).
> 
> There are also other wires that control the light and other stuff
> but I didn't trace them out and my unit seems to work as intended.
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[Richard Solomon]

There was one listed over on that auction site, it said best offer, so I made a 
low offer and it was accepted !!

Guess my offer was too high !!


Anyway, it has the Red Fault Light on, so it has issues too.


If anyone finds any info on it, I would appreciate getting it. If I find out 
anything about it, I will post it here.


Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ


Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>

From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Arthur Dent 
<golgarfrinc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 9:35:14 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info

Some time ago bought one on Ebay for under $50 just because it looked
interesting. It isn't a prototype but most of the FEI units probably
had limited production. It seemed to be more complicated than I
expected it to be but if I understood it better it would make more
sense.

The 10Mhz board is enabled/disabled by the int/external switch. The
10Mhz output and EFC from this oscillator board are connected to the
interface board. I believe that these 2 boards and the switch/connector
on the back allow you to use the internal 10Mhz oscillator to output
10Mhz and send 10Mhz on (perhaps a connector marked J4) to a comparator
board. If I recall this part of the unit should work independant of
the other boards.

The comparator board is probably a PLL that compares its 10Mhz input
with its 100Mhz input and outputs an EFC voltage to the 100Mhz
oscillator. the 100MHz oscillator output goes to the amplifier board
with two 100Mhz outputs on the back panel. There is also a 100Mhz
signal that goes back to the PLL board so the 100Mhz is locked to
the 10Mhz oscillator or an external input (if I remember correctly).

There are also other wires that control the light and other stuff
but I didn't trace them out and my unit seems to work as intended.
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[time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[Arthur Dent]

Some time ago bought one on Ebay for under $50 just because it looked
interesting. It isn't a prototype but most of the FEI units probably
had limited production. It seemed to be more complicated than I
expected it to be but if I understood it better it would make more
sense.

The 10Mhz board is enabled/disabled by the int/external switch. The
10Mhz output and EFC from this oscillator board are connected to the
interface board. I believe that these 2 boards and the switch/connector
on the back allow you to use the internal 10Mhz oscillator to output
10Mhz and send 10Mhz on (perhaps a connector marked J4) to a comparator
board. If I recall this part of the unit should work independant of
the other boards.

The comparator board is probably a PLL that compares its 10Mhz input
with its 100Mhz input and outputs an EFC voltage to the 100Mhz
oscillator. the 100MHz oscillator output goes to the amplifier board
with two 100Mhz outputs on the back panel. There is also a 100Mhz
signal that goes back to the PLL board so the 100Mhz is locked to
the 10Mhz oscillator or an external input (if I remember correctly).

There are also other wires that control the light and other stuff
but I didn't trace them out and my unit seems to work as intended.
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[djl]

start with the power supplies, and go on until morning...
Don

On 2018-02-19 16:57, walter shawlee 2 wrote:

I recently got a strange little 1U FEI rack mounted unit called an
FE-7923F-100-1,
which appears to have rear 10MHz and dual 100Mhz outputs. it is called
a Frequency Reference Unit.

sadly, my unit has a fault light, and no outputs. All the internal
supplies look good, and there is an FE-83AA (10.0Mhz) and FE-1020-100
(100Mhz) OCXO inside.  both of these work (when measured at the
oscillators), and seem to have meaningful control including EFC, and I
tracked down the adjustments in a sea of what seem to be prototype
boards next to the oscillators. so, I have two good sources,
adjustable, but still no outputs.
the OCXO signals disappear into a set of boards with no useful
markings as to function, and look mainly digital.

the 100Mhz unit has only about 200mV p-p output, which seems low to
me, the other has lots of signal. I cannot find any data on either
unit on line or at the FEI website, so any data that is out there
would be very welcome, so I can be sure they at least are running
correctly.

I am hoping to use this rack as a source of RF reference signals in
other gear, but clearly I will have to either gut the rest of the
circuitry and add some new buffers, or figure out the rats nest of
hand wiring to determine why it's not working.  any help in that area
hugely appreciated, and I can send pics to anybody interested to know
more about the internals.

the rear apron has AC power in, a 10MHz output SMA, a switch next to
it that says INT/EXT REF. (set to INT), but no way to attach an
external ref.  then there's a D-Sub filtered connector, that runs to
the stacked digital boards, but its purpose is unknown as I cannot see
where the connections go.  there are also two 100Mhz SMA outputs, but
all outputs are dead, with no signal, and the front ONLINE green LED
is dark, and the red FAULT LED is lit. the oscillators do not run to
the rear jacks but disappear into three pcbs.

hoping for some FEI data if anybody has some to share.
all the best,
walter

--
Walter Shawlee 2, President
Sphere Research Corporation
3394 Sunnyside Rd.,  West Kelowna,  BC
V1Z 2V4  CANADA  Phone: (250) 769-1834
walt...@sphere.bc.ca
WS2: We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you.
Love is all you need. (John Lennon)
But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2)

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--
Dr. Don Latham
PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
VOX: 406-626-4304

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[time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[walter shawlee 2]

I recently got a strange little 1U FEI rack mounted unit called an 
FE-7923F-100-1,
which appears to have rear 10MHz and dual 100Mhz outputs. it is called a 
Frequency Reference Unit.


sadly, my unit has a fault light, and no outputs. All the internal supplies look 
good, and there is an FE-83AA (10.0Mhz) and FE-1020-100 (100Mhz) OCXO inside.  
both of these work (when measured at the oscillators), and seem to have 
meaningful control including EFC, and I tracked down the adjustments in a sea of 
what seem to be prototype boards next to the oscillators. so, I have two good 
sources, adjustable, but still no outputs.
the OCXO signals disappear into a set of boards with no useful markings as to 
function, and look mainly digital.


the 100Mhz unit has only about 200mV p-p output, which seems low to me, the 
other has lots of signal. I cannot find any data on either unit on line or at 
the FEI website, so any data that is out there would be very welcome, so I can 
be sure they at least are running correctly.


I am hoping to use this rack as a source of RF reference signals in other gear, 
but clearly I will have to either gut the rest of the circuitry and add some new 
buffers, or figure out the rats nest of hand wiring to determine why it's not 
working.  any help in that area hugely appreciated, and I can send pics to 
anybody interested to know more about the internals.


the rear apron has AC power in, a 10MHz output SMA, a switch next to it that 
says INT/EXT REF. (set to INT), but no way to attach an external ref.  then 
there's a D-Sub filtered connector, that runs to the stacked digital boards, but 
its purpose is unknown as I cannot see where the connections go.  there are also 
two 100Mhz SMA outputs, but all outputs are dead, with no signal, and the front 
ONLINE green LED is dark, and the red FAULT LED is lit. the oscillators do not 
run to the rear jacks but disappear into three pcbs.


hoping for some FEI data if anybody has some to share.
all the best,
walter

--
Walter Shawlee 2, President
Sphere Research Corporation
3394 Sunnyside Rd.,  West Kelowna,  BC
V1Z 2V4  CANADA  Phone: (250) 769-1834
walt...@sphere.bc.ca
WS2: We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you.
Love is all you need. (John Lennon)
But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2)

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