[time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
On 9/14/2012 8:00 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: For those of you interested in timing mechanical clocks or watches, a wonderful site to visit is: http://www.bmumford.com/microset.html /tvb So, does this unit include an input for a external reference? I would be interested in knowing what they use for a timing reference... :) Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
So, does this unit include an input for a external reference? I would be interested in knowing what they use for a timing reference... :) Dan Last I checked with Bryan, he has XO and TCXO and GPS options for the Microset timer. Realize that most traditional watch/clock people are content with ppm level accuracy/stability. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Hi Seconds per 30 day month turned out to be a pretty good unit for the watch module specs back in the dark ages. More or less divide by 2.5 (or 2.592 if you have a calculator) and you get ppm. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:17 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch So, does this unit include an input for a external reference? I would be interested in knowing what they use for a timing reference... :) Dan Last I checked with Bryan, he has XO and TCXO and GPS options for the Microset timer. Realize that most traditional watch/clock people are content with ppm level accuracy/stability. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Another rule of thumb is 1 second in a dozen days is almost exactly 1 PPM. And two seconds before retirement (say, age 65) is close to 1 PPB. Three seconds a century is also 1 PPB. Related to that, next time you read a newspaper article about atomic clocks I guarantee you'll see words like one second in 3*** million years. That's because newspapers don't use scientific notation and because: 1e-9 is close to 1 second / 30 years 1e-12 is close to 1 second / 30 thousand years 1e-15 is close to 1 second / 30 million years, etc. /tvb - Original Message - From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: 'Tom Van Baak' t...@leapsecond.com; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:14 AM Subject: RE: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch Hi Seconds per 30 day month turned out to be a pretty good unit for the watch module specs back in the dark ages. More or less divide by 2.5 (or 2.592 if you have a calculator) and you get ppm. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:17 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch So, does this unit include an input for a external reference? I would be interested in knowing what they use for a timing reference... :) Dan Last I checked with Bryan, he has XO and TCXO and GPS options for the Microset timer. Realize that most traditional watch/clock people are content with ppm level accuracy/stability. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Hi The WV-58A at $28 takes care of the time zone thing pretty well. It's also cheap enough to be a throw away if it's damaged. Since it's pure digital, it's really not going to meet the I need a second hand requirement... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Quarksnow Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:39 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch There are many Wave Ceptor LCD versions such as WVM120J-1 (about $27) or WV59A-1AV (about $49) that might not have the spin issue. Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz rp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
You could try listening with an electromagnetic pickup, like the ones we used to stick on telephone handsets to record conversations. Ron On 9/12/2012 5:21 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murrayhmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, don't be concerned. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly. If you need a reply and have not heard from me in 1 - 2 weeks, send your message again.) Ron Frazier timekeepingdude AT techstarship.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
My watch is also digital, but I wanted to put a word in for my Casio. It's the G-Shock MT-G, module 2638. Auto sets, auto charges, 200 M water resist if I ever need it. I love it. It was around $ 100. I live in GA in the USA. It sets very reliably but can only receive the signal well enough in the middle of the night. It's only ever missed one or two setting times. I've had it since January 2012. I don't know how it handles time zone changes. I would probably have to look in the manual to figure out how to tell it. Ron On 9/13/2012 12:23 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The WV-58A at $28 takes care of the time zone thing pretty well. It's also cheap enough to be a throw away if it's damaged. Since it's pure digital, it's really not going to meet the I need a second hand requirement... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Quarksnow Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:39 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch There are many Wave Ceptor LCD versions such as WVM120J-1 (about $27) or WV59A-1AV (about $49) that might not have the spin issue. Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putzrp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, don't be concerned. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly. If you need a reply and have not heard from me in 1 - 2 weeks, send your message again.) Ron Frazier timekeepingdude AT techstarship.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
OK, listening to the 32KHz EM field, not to the acoustic 32KHz. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:08 PM, Ron Frazier (TImeN) timenutsl...@techstarship.com wrote: My watch is also digital, but I wanted to put a word in for my Casio. It's the G-Shock MT-G, module 2638. Auto sets, auto charges, 200 M water resist if I ever need it. I love it. It was around $ 100. I live in GA in the USA. It sets very reliably but can only receive the signal well enough in the middle of the night. It's only ever missed one or two setting times. I've had it since January 2012. I don't know how it handles time zone changes. I would probably have to look in the manual to figure out how to tell it. Ron On 9/13/2012 12:23 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The WV-58A at $28 takes care of the time zone thing pretty well. It's also cheap enough to be a throw away if it's damaged. Since it's pure digital, it's really not going to meet the I need a second hand requirement... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Quarksnow Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:39 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch There are many Wave Ceptor LCD versions such as WVM120J-1 (about $27) or WV59A-1AV (about $49) that might not have the spin issue. Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putzrp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, don't be concerned. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly. If you need a reply and have not heard from me in 1 - 2 weeks, send your message again.) Ron Frazier timekeepingdude AT techstarship.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
On 9/13/2012 4:45 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: OK, listening to the 32KHz EM field, not to the acoustic 32KHz. I'm impressed by your special powers. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Hi A watch module is *very* low power. There's not much EM field running around. What there is relates to many things going on, not just the crystal. It's *much* easier to pick up the acoustic signal and use it to drive a counter. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:45 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch OK, listening to the 32KHz EM field, not to the acoustic 32KHz. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:08 PM, Ron Frazier (TImeN) timenutsl...@techstarship.com wrote: My watch is also digital, but I wanted to put a word in for my Casio. It's the G-Shock MT-G, module 2638. Auto sets, auto charges, 200 M water resist if I ever need it. I love it. It was around $ 100. I live in GA in the USA. It sets very reliably but can only receive the signal well enough in the middle of the night. It's only ever missed one or two setting times. I've had it since January 2012. I don't know how it handles time zone changes. I would probably have to look in the manual to figure out how to tell it. Ron On 9/13/2012 12:23 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The WV-58A at $28 takes care of the time zone thing pretty well. It's also cheap enough to be a throw away if it's damaged. Since it's pure digital, it's really not going to meet the I need a second hand requirement... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Quarksnow Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:39 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch There are many Wave Ceptor LCD versions such as WVM120J-1 (about $27) or WV59A-1AV (about $49) that might not have the spin issue. Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putzrp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, don't be concerned. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly. If you need a reply and have not heard from me in 1 - 2 weeks, send your message again.) Ron Frazier timekeepingdude AT techstarship.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Easier, yes, but a very faint signal... anyway I consider interesting to pick up very low signals as it is the art of electronics. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:08 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi A watch module is *very* low power. There's not much EM field running around. What there is relates to many things going on, not just the crystal. It's *much* easier to pick up the acoustic signal and use it to drive a counter. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:45 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch OK, listening to the 32KHz EM field, not to the acoustic 32KHz. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:08 PM, Ron Frazier (TImeN) timenutsl...@techstarship.com wrote: My watch is also digital, but I wanted to put a word in for my Casio. It's the G-Shock MT-G, module 2638. Auto sets, auto charges, 200 M water resist if I ever need it. I love it. It was around $ 100. I live in GA in the USA. It sets very reliably but can only receive the signal well enough in the middle of the night. It's only ever missed one or two setting times. I've had it since January 2012. I don't know how it handles time zone changes. I would probably have to look in the manual to figure out how to tell it. Ron On 9/13/2012 12:23 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The WV-58A at $28 takes care of the time zone thing pretty well. It's also cheap enough to be a throw away if it's damaged. Since it's pure digital, it's really not going to meet the I need a second hand requirement... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Quarksnow Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:39 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch There are many Wave Ceptor LCD versions such as WVM120J-1 (about $27) or WV59A-1AV (about $49) that might not have the spin issue. Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putzrp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, don't be concerned. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly. If you need a reply and have not heard from me in 1 - 2 weeks, send your message again.) Ron Frazier timekeepingdude AT techstarship.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
It turns out that watch timing machines are available that sense the watch crystal both ways. The same was true in the days of the Accutron tuning fork watch... thought the more reliable timing machines used a loop to sense the magnetic field of the drive coils. The big problem is most such watches no longer use trimmer capacitors to adjust the timing, but rather store counter values in a tiny bit of flash ram... absent the manufacturer's blessing, and a bit of equipment they sell to their authorized service centers, you probably won't be adjusting the watch's timing constants. -Chuck Harris Bob Camp wrote: Hi A watch module is *very* low power. There's not much EM field running around. What there is relates to many things going on, not just the crystal. It's *much* easier to pick up the acoustic signal and use it to drive a counter. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:45 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch OK, listening to the 32KHz EM field, not to the acoustic 32KHz. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:08 PM, Ron Frazier (TImeN) timenutsl...@techstarship.com wrote: My watch is also digital, but I wanted to put a word in for my Casio. It's the G-Shock MT-G, module 2638. Auto sets, auto charges, 200 M water resist if I ever need it. I love it. It was around $ 100. I live in GA in the USA. It sets very reliably but can only receive the signal well enough in the middle of the night. It's only ever missed one or two setting times. I've had it since January 2012. I don't know how it handles time zone changes. I would probably have to look in the manual to figure out how to tell it. Ron On 9/13/2012 12:23 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The WV-58A at $28 takes care of the time zone thing pretty well. It's also cheap enough to be a throw away if it's damaged. Since it's pure digital, it's really not going to meet the I need a second hand requirement... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Quarksnow Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:39 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch There are many Wave Ceptor LCD versions such as WVM120J-1 (about $27) or WV59A-1AV (about $49) that might not have the spin issue. Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putzrp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, don't be concerned. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly. If you need a reply and have not heard from me in 1 - 2 weeks, send your message again.) Ron Frazier timekeepingdude AT techstarship.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Hi A magnetically driven tuning fork is a *very* different beast than a modern watch crystal…. Bob On Sep 13, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote: It turns out that watch timing machines are available that sense the watch crystal both ways. The same was true in the days of the Accutron tuning fork watch... thought the more reliable timing machines used a loop to sense the magnetic field of the drive coils. The big problem is most such watches no longer use trimmer capacitors to adjust the timing, but rather store counter values in a tiny bit of flash ram... absent the manufacturer's blessing, and a bit of equipment they sell to their authorized service centers, you probably won't be adjusting the watch's timing constants. -Chuck Harris Bob Camp wrote: Hi A watch module is *very* low power. There's not much EM field running around. What there is relates to many things going on, not just the crystal. It's *much* easier to pick up the acoustic signal and use it to drive a counter. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:45 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch OK, listening to the 32KHz EM field, not to the acoustic 32KHz. On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:08 PM, Ron Frazier (TImeN) timenutsl...@techstarship.com wrote: My watch is also digital, but I wanted to put a word in for my Casio. It's the G-Shock MT-G, module 2638. Auto sets, auto charges, 200 M water resist if I ever need it. I love it. It was around $ 100. I live in GA in the USA. It sets very reliably but can only receive the signal well enough in the middle of the night. It's only ever missed one or two setting times. I've had it since January 2012. I don't know how it handles time zone changes. I would probably have to look in the manual to figure out how to tell it. Ron On 9/13/2012 12:23 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The WV-58A at $28 takes care of the time zone thing pretty well. It's also cheap enough to be a throw away if it's damaged. Since it's pure digital, it's really not going to meet the I need a second hand requirement... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Quarksnow Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:39 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch There are many Wave Ceptor LCD versions such as WVM120J-1 (about $27) or WV59A-1AV (about $49) that might not have the spin issue. Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putzrp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to former messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.) (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, don't be concerned. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly. If you need a reply and have not heard from me in 1 - 2 weeks, send your message again.) Ron Frazier timekeepingdude AT techstarship.com
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Hmm, Imagine that! And yet you still can detect its E-M field with a loop of wire, or its sonic signature with a microphone. -Chuck Harris Bob Camp wrote: Hi A magnetically driven tuning fork is a *very* different beast than a modern watch crystal…. Bob On Sep 13, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote: It turns out that watch timing machines are available that sense the watch crystal both ways. The same was true in the days of the Accutron tuning fork watch... thought the more reliable timing machines used a loop to sense the magnetic field of the drive coils. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
The accuracy of 32 kHz-based quartz wristwatches with analog hands can easily be measured with magnetic pick-up. Even if the 32 kHz acoustic or EM field is too low to sense, the tiny 1 Hz stepper motor creates a large sharp spike, which is much easier to detect. Here's an example from my watch: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/Junghans/ For those of you interested in timing mechanical clocks or watches, a wonderful site to visit is: http://www.bmumford.com/microset.html /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.com wrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. Some Casio models have hands which can run in both directions, as an example, my GW-2000 does this. Both for fast forward/backward adjustments, and slow timekeeping movements. In countdown timer mode, the hands move counterclockwise. Cheers P. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Hi Yes indeed you can hear the 32KHz crystal. Back in the dark ages, that's exactly how we picked off the signal to drive a counter during adjustment of the watch modules. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:22 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
If I recall correctly it was in RF Design magazine many years ago that a short article included a schematic for using an ultrasonic sensor and selective amplifier (narrowband PLL?) to pick up the 32KHz vibration and convert it to a measurable signal. I'd expect a normal microphone to pick up way too much extraneous noise such that the 32KHz could not be successfully recovered. Bob L. From: Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
OK, I'll try but I think this is not a dark ages practice: hearing a very small vibration is related to low noise and small signal techniques. It is way easier to hear a mechanical escapement. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Yes indeed you can hear the 32KHz crystal. Back in the dark ages, that's exactly how we picked off the signal to drive a counter during adjustment of the watch modules. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:22 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Unfortunately I don't have that article, anymore, but I remember the basics from it. The author used one of the Radio Shack piezo sounder elements as the pickup. It was one of the 3 wire styles designed for an external oscillator circuit. I think it might have been around 1 cm diameter. The part I can't remember is the amplifier. It could have been a PLL or may have just been a high gain video amplifier, like the MC1350. Anyway, if somebody wants to look for the article it was somewhere in the 1985 to 1995 timeframe. There are also commercial tools from Horotec and others built for this purpose. Just google watch tester and you'll find a host of products. -John -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert LaJeunesse Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:49 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch If I recall correctly it was in RF Design magazine many years ago that a short article included a schematic for using an ultrasonic sensor and selective amplifier (narrowband PLL?) to pick up the 32KHz vibration and convert it to a measurable signal. I'd expect a normal microphone to pick up way too much extraneous noise such that the 32KHz could not be successfully recovered. Bob L. From: Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
Hi Our production test setup was not very fancy. We had a simple miniature microphone that directly contacted the module. The fixture also supplied power to the module. There was an op amp and a simple diode limiter between the mic and the input to the counter. No PLL's or crazy stuff needed. We tested several thousand modules a day with that setup... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:51 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch OK, I'll try but I think this is not a dark ages practice: hearing a very small vibration is related to low noise and small signal techniques. It is way easier to hear a mechanical escapement. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Yes indeed you can hear the 32KHz crystal. Back in the dark ages, that's exactly how we picked off the signal to drive a counter during adjustment of the watch modules. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Azelio Boriani Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:22 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
On 9/12/2012 2:21 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Not only that, but 32,000 Hz is about 12,000 Hz higher than the highest frequency that we are supposed to be able to hear. . . Randy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
The small microphone is not a problem: I've used a small mic from a cellphone to make an audio downconverter used as a bat detector, I can try with that hardware first. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Randy D. Hunt randy_hunt...@yahoo.comwrote: On 9/12/2012 2:21 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Interesting: trying to hear a low frequency crystal using a microphone... it should be hard: the crystal has to make the case vibrate and this is energy consuming (unless it resonates). I don't expect to pick up nothing, except the step motor driving the hands. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Has anybody listened to such a watch? (with a microphone) Can you hear both the 32KHz basic timekeeping as well as the tick when the second hand takes a step? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Not only that, but 32,000 Hz is about 12,000 Hz higher than the highest frequency that we are supposed to be able to hear. . . Randy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
There are many Wave Ceptor LCD versions such as WVM120J-1 (about $27) or WV59A-1AV (about $49) that might not have the spin issue. Chris On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz rp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: On 9/10/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Smither wrote: May not be redundant for time nuts! I have an NTP client on my Android and it shows the network time (Sprint in my case) is often as much as 2 seconds behind UTC. So that makes it, what, 21 seconds off? It should be 19 seconds ahead of UTC, since Sprint has a CDMA network, which works on GPS time. It's likely you have multiple processes trying to pull the clock in different directions. Left alone, Android devices sync to network time, which is GPS, not UTC, in many cases. It's a bug, IMHO, but that's the way it is. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Interesting... I have two different phones (Mot. 'Droid, and Samsung Galaxy Nexus) which each use a different source for time, in spite of the fact that they are on the same carrier. The 'Droid uses UTC, the Nexus uses GPS (yes, they are (now) 16 seconds apart). JimT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
Curious. Civil time is based on UTC, not GPS. Shouldn't the smart phones account for the difference from GPS time? We have the technology. BTW, my Verizon CDMA dumb phone is currently only 1 second ahead, NOT 16 secs. David On 9/11/12 11:48 AM, James Tucker wrote: On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: On 9/10/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Smither wrote: May not be redundant for time nuts! I have an NTP client on my Android and it shows the network time (Sprint in my case) is often as much as 2 seconds behind UTC. So that makes it, what, 21 seconds off? It should be 19 seconds ahead of UTC, since Sprint has a CDMA network, which works on GPS time. It's likely you have multiple processes trying to pull the clock in different directions. Left alone, Android devices sync to network time, which is GPS, not UTC, in many cases. It's a bug, IMHO, but that's the way it is. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Interesting... I have two different phones (Mot. 'Droid, and Samsung Galaxy Nexus) which each use a different source for time, in spite of the fact that they are on the same carrier. The 'Droid uses UTC, the Nexus uses GPS (yes, they are (now) 16 seconds apart). JimT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
On 9/11/2012 11:58 AM, David McGaw wrote: Curious. Civil time is based on UTC, not GPS. Shouldn't the smart phones account for the difference from GPS time? We have the technology. The problem is, Google doesn't have a clue. The issue was first reported to them almost 3 years ago - http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=5485 BTW, my Verizon CDMA dumb phone is currently only 1 second ahead, NOT 16 secs. It likely has a fixed correction built into firmware, and was in sync with UTC prior to the recent leap second. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
Precision is precision, whatever time scale you use. UTC, CET, TAI, use what you want but stability and accuracy is the must. On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz rp...@bnin.netwrote: Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David On 9/10/12 7:57 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Precision is precision, whatever time scale you use. UTC, CET, TAI, use what you want but stability and accuracy is the must. On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz rp...@bnin.netwrote: Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
It was mentioned a while back that there are watches that are temperature compensated. I would be interested in knowing which are. The self-setting ones are nice and I have one, but I am often in places that are not in range the transmitter (Greenland, Antarctica for instance) and I would like it not to drift. Thanks, David On 9/10/12 9:57 AM, David McGaw wrote: He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David On 9/10/12 7:57 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Precision is precision, whatever time scale you use. UTC, CET, TAI, use what you want but stability and accuracy is the must. On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz rp...@bnin.netwrote: Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:04 PM, David McGaw n1...@alum.dartmouth.org wrote: It was mentioned a while back that there are watches that are temperature compensated. I would be interested in knowing which are. The self-setting ones are nice and I have one, but I am often in places that are not in range the transmitter (Greenland, Antarctica for instance) and I would like it not to drift. The equivalent of the time nuts list, but for watches is the High Accuracy Quartz watches forum, which lives here: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f9/ In the sticky topics of this forum there's a compilation of the watch movements you are looking for. Cheers P. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
As with the original chronometers, it is not the drift that is important, but the stability of the drift. If you know that then getting the correct time is simple arithmetic. That said, if you want to get low drift numbers, a number of movements have been and are available to improve on the average Swatch. Have a look at http://issuu.com/watchlords.com/docs/thermocompensation-methods_20110528_055911 for a document by Bruce Reding which catalogues many. I have a couple that are well within spec at 2s per year, the A660 from Citizen and the 9F from Seiko. Le 10/09/2012 16:04, David McGaw a écrit : It was mentioned a while back that there are watches that are temperature compensated. I would be interested in knowing which are. The self-setting ones are nice and I have one, but I am often in places that are not in range the transmitter (Greenland, Antarctica for instance) and I would like it not to drift. Thanks, David On 9/10/12 9:57 AM, David McGaw wrote: He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David On 9/10/12 7:57 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Precision is precision, whatever time scale you use. UTC, CET, TAI, use what you want but stability and accuracy is the must. On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz rp...@bnin.netwrote: Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Les chiens aboient, et la caravane passe. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
I think any Time Nut worth his salt should own a tourbillon watch, or several. Some would consider these a bargain compared to a new Hydrogen Maser. If a tourbillon does fit your budget Citizen makes many great watches. After breaking my third $100 watch in a year I purchased a Analog Citizen that automatically sets to WWV and the watch face is a solar cell so it will never need a battery. (Or so they say) The one I purchased includes an altimeters (to help us Time Nuts compensate for the dilation of time due to altitude). Mine is nicely machine from titanium. I shopped the net and found mine for about $400. I have now owned it for several years and it has been flawless, the only setback is that I usually carry my cell phone which makes a watch redundant these days. Thomas Knox Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:17:23 +0200 From: olopie...@gmail.com To: n1...@alum.dartmouth.org; time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:04 PM, David McGaw n1...@alum.dartmouth.org wrote: It was mentioned a while back that there are watches that are temperature compensated. I would be interested in knowing which are. The self-setting ones are nice and I have one, but I am often in places that are not in range the transmitter (Greenland, Antarctica for instance) and I would like it not to drift. The equivalent of the time nuts list, but for watches is the High Accuracy Quartz watches forum, which lives here: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f9/ In the sticky topics of this forum there's a compilation of the watch movements you are looking for. Cheers P. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
On 9/10/12 6:57 AM, David McGaw wrote: He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David This is a bigger deal than one might think. Especially since calendaring software tries to be helpful and adjust things. So while you might want your alarm clock on your iPhone to ring at, say, 730AM LOCAL time, if you set an appointment in pacific time zone, it helpfully changes it to 3 hours earlier when you land in EDT land. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David Ah, done with it you say? No, that only begins a whole new set of problems. Setting to UTC begs the question: what time frame are you in and whose definition of a second is your watch counting. Traveling across timezones with a good clock brings you interesting problems, at the sub-microsecond level at least, due to earth rotation and latitude and due to relativistic effects of altitude and velocity. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
Oh Boy. Just occurred to me; what reference is used in the Tardis Don Tom Van Baak Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David Ah, done with it you say? No, that only begins a whole new set of problems. Setting to UTC begs the question: what time frame are you in and whose definition of a second is your watch counting. Traveling across timezones with a good clock brings you interesting problems, at the sub-microsecond level at least, due to earth rotation and latitude and due to relativistic effects of altitude and velocity. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
Hello! El 10/09/2012 19:33, Tom Van Baak escribió: Ah, done with it you say? No, that only begins a whole new set of problems. Setting to UTC begs the question: what time frame are you in and whose definition of a second is your watch counting. Some time ago we supplied a customer in Germany a quite complex equipment, including a workstation whose time was set at UTC. One day he commented us that he had at first not noted that, and used the workstation time to check the time while he was working with the system... and that he noted the difference to the local time when he missed the lunch a couple of times because the company canteen was already closed when he arrived. Traveling across timezones with a good clock brings you interesting problems, at the sub-microsecond level at least, due to earth rotation and latitude and due to relativistic effects of altitude and velocity. Well, but since the $150 wrist watch class usually does not provide a microsecond hand, I suspect that this would pass inadverted :) Regards, Javier -- Javier Herrero Chief Technology Officer EMAIL: jherr...@hvsistemas.com HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
Everyone know the Tardis uses the UEC (Universal Expansion Constant). Tardis time is based on the instant of the Big Bang. To determine current time simply measure the distance between the leading edge of expansion on opposite sides of the universe and divide by 93,000 to have UEC in seconds. Thomas Knox Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:39:29 -0600 From: d...@montana.com To: t...@leapsecond.com; time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch Oh Boy. Just occurred to me; what reference is used in the Tardis Don Tom Van Baak Bob; Being this is Time-Nuts and all, shouldn't you be using UTC anyway? ;) Rich He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David Ah, done with it you say? No, that only begins a whole new set of problems. Setting to UTC begs the question: what time frame are you in and whose definition of a second is your watch counting. Traveling across timezones with a good clock brings you interesting problems, at the sub-microsecond level at least, due to earth rotation and latitude and due to relativistic effects of altitude and velocity. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
GUT (Gallifree Universal Time) of course. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Latham Sent: 10 September 2012 18:39 To: Tom Van Baak; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch Oh Boy. Just occurred to me; what reference is used in the Tardis Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
On 09/10/2012 10:02 AM, Tom Knox wrote: I think any Time Nut worth his salt should own a tourbillon watch, or several. Some would consider these a bargain compared to a new Hydrogen Maser. If a tourbillon does fit your budget Citizen makes many great watches. After breaking my third $100 watch in a year I purchased a Analog Citizen that automatically sets to WWV and the watch face is a solar cell so it will never need a battery. (Or so they say) The one I purchased includes an altimeters (to help us Time Nuts compensate for the dilation of time due to altitude). Mine is nicely machine from titanium. I shopped the net and found mine for about $400. I have now owned it for several years and it has been flawless, the only setback is that I usually carry my cell phone which makes a watch redundant these days. Thomas Knox May not be redundant for time nuts! I have an NTP client on my Android and it shows the network time (Sprint in my case) is often as much as 2 seconds behind UTC. Anyone else noticed this? Best regards, -- = Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. ATT - Your world. Delivered. To the NSA. http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/ smit...@c-c-i.comhttp://www.C-C-I.Com281-331-2744 = attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
On 9/10/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Smither wrote: May not be redundant for time nuts! I have an NTP client on my Android and it shows the network time (Sprint in my case) is often as much as 2 seconds behind UTC. So that makes it, what, 21 seconds off? It should be 19 seconds ahead of UTC, since Sprint has a CDMA network, which works on GPS time. It's likely you have multiple processes trying to pull the clock in different directions. Left alone, Android devices sync to network time, which is GPS, not UTC, in many cases. It's a bug, IMHO, but that's the way it is. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch
On 09/10/2012 06:36 PM, Bob Smither wrote: May not be redundant for time nuts! I have an NTP client on my Android and it shows the network time (Sprint in my case) is often as much as 2 seconds behind UTC. Anyone else noticed this? It may not really be using network time, or not using it properly. I had a first-gen Palm Pre that, despite having no fewer than 3 precise time sources at its disposal, would lose minutes per week and required a reboot to synchronize. Eventually a software update fixed it. Seems to be an ailment unique to smartphones. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
The waveceptor's are okay but I can't wear mine much because I tend to cross timezones a lot. The hands only run in one direction so when going to the west, it has to spin 11 hours forward. This takes 20 minutes. I guess it's one way to kill time on an airplane. -Bob On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Rich and Marcia Putz rp...@bnin.net wrote: I have a $49 Casio Wave Ceptor, white face black numerals, analog hands including second hand, date, alarm and WWVB syncing in the middle of the night. Only had to replace the battery once and it ticks are closer than I can discern when comparing to WWV @ 10or 15 Mhz. Rich, W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RE; New Wrist watch
I have a Junghans. I can't say it is easy on the batteries. Otherwise they work. I regret not getting the glows in the dark version. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
